2. It was 86° when this happened — the hottest time of the day — and Crowley and Gates are in dark suits and ties? When it was decided that this would be a picnic-table setting, why didn't they ensure that the invited guests dress for the casual environment? Biden and Obama are in shirt sleeves, which isn't appropriate either, but they are at least cooler. Nothing like making the guests comfortable. This doesn't even give the remote appearance of a bunch of guys having a beer.
3. We don't get to hear anything they say, but somehow it's supposed to convey a message to America and the world about racial harmony. Look! These men can do that. Uh, what? Sit awkwardly in suits and sip from mugs?
4. The "RACE IN AMERICA: AFTER THE BEERS" frenzy of non-analysis on CNN was truly absurd.
Was this a "teachable moment" and, if it was, what was taught? Wolf Blitzer asked again and again to various hyper-articulate/utterly empty commentators.
5. Chez Althouse, we had some laughs at that CNN frenzy. And we weren't even drinking. Now, I'm thinking about what Rush Limbaugh said earlier today: "Drinking beer before dinner is the wrong message to send to obese Americans. I mean they're trying to tell us we need to fix our diets, right? They have targeted and demonized the obese. And they're doing it in a vicious way and now what is the message — drink a beer before dinner? If we're going to micromanage Americans' weight we should at least start sending out body fat correct messages, and that does not include drinking beer before dinner.... You don't drink beer before eating. It's a horrible message to send to the obese, and to make a huge deal about this — overweight Americans are under assault as a drag on health care and as a drag on the budget, and what's the president doing? He's showing people how to pack on calories the easy way, have a beer with a cop and an elitist professor at a picnic table in the kids' playground before dinner."
6. News conference coming up? Ugh. Guess I have to watch. Obama may teach me something. We may have our "moment" yet. I'll update.
ADDED: 7. Crowley gives a press conference in which he mainly says that the discussion was, upon agreement among the men, private. It was all "cordial." "No tension." Okay.
Posts
175 comments:
1. It's very uncool to quote Fat Man Limbaugh.
2. Of course Wolfy is useless.
3. ????
4. Profit!
How is this supposed to speak to the "common man" when it looks like a business meeting?
I think Crowley did the best thing possible. He gets to brag about having a beer with the President, plus he made Obama look ridiculous. Is there any thing the President can say that wont make him or the press look that way?
This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Who thought this was a good idea? Did Obama blurt it out in front of some journalist like the "no preconditions" thing with Iran, therefore getting stuck with it? Dumb, dumb, dumb! Dumber than anything Bush ever did.
Biden is there so that Crowley is NOT outnumbered. He rounds out the foursome so that there are two blacks and two whites (to discuss issues of race in America).
They should have invited a stripper and made it a stag party.
That would have made the beer make more sense, and given it a frothier context.
Or maybe they should have played strip poker or something.
I think I've been reading your comments threads too much.
I heard Alcoholics Anonymous and MADD disappove of these beerfests.
1. Why's Biden there?
Entertainment? Comedic effect?
How is this supposed to speak to the "common man" when it looks like a business meeting?
I guess by "comman man" you mean non-Christian hedonists and sinners who don't ever wear a suit to church.
Why is Hair Plugs Joe there? Don't you know the jingle?
"When you say Biden-wiser -- you've said it all." Just to make sure America got the message!
1. Why's Biden there?
To remind us all that there could be worse things than having Obama as our President?
CNN is concerned that women not tune away.
Crowley ought to talk about foreign policy as long as he's got the chance.
1. Why's Biden there?
uuhhh...he normally finishes his shift as White House lawn jockey with a couple of brewskis, right?
Overall, this beer summit is both rather annoying and humorous. Cop, Gates and Obama all do the wrong thing and in order to reassure us political partisans - who choose to either hate Gates or hate the cop [or possibly hate Obama]- the White House stages a moment for the media.
So really they are hashing it out for OUR sake and for the media's sake so they have something to report on rather than reporing on boring things like health care or a sinking economy.
I mean, a discussion might come out of this but it’s too much of a wildcard moment to really get to an issue about cops and race or working class vs upper class or whatever.
The teachable moment [and I’m saying this as an Obama fan] is that if you stick your foot in your mouth you need to find a really cool photo-op to make it appear like you are doing the right thing for everyone’s sake. I can’t really take it seriously because I am not sure anyone will look at it as anything other than a staged event for the media.
A beer...It's 5 o'clock! I'm going to have a beer too!
InvissibleMan : I guess by "comman man" you mean non-Christian hedonists and sinners who don't ever wear a suit to church.
You get to dress up, sit outside, and drink beer at your church? Finally I understand that "Our God is an Awesome God," song.
Everybody I know that holds a backyard party puts up a volleyball net.
b.s. : Biden is there so that Crowley is NOT outnumbered. He rounds out the foursome so that there are two blacks and two whites (to discuss issues of race in America).
If Biden is Obama's only white friend he really is a racist. And if Obama brought Biden there to talk about anything he's even more ridiculous than anyone's so far imagined.
Biden's there because this was the traditional role of the VP. Play golf, go to funerals, and do puff events.
Apparently, Obama wants to do the VP's job and the President's job. Biden, by traditional standards, is a good VP. He's an amiable fellow. W. would have made a good VP in the traditional role as well.
So now Biden doesn't get to throw out the first pitch at the all-star games or hold these grog-klatches.
Biden's really been given the short end of the stick. I'd resign if I were him.
You know what is interesting? It is Crowley who is the analog of Rosa Parks in the meeting with Obama and Gates. Gates and Obama are so caught up in the narrative of their own unending victimhood and their consequent sense of entitlement that they don't realize it is Crowley whose civil rights have been compromised by Obama's remarks and Gates's unfounded and racist accusations. It is Crowley who is in the Rosa Parks seat as he sits with his accusers, a wealthy and influential Harvard professor and the president of the United States who prejudged his actions.
Yeah, coat and tie?! I totally would have shown up in business casual. A light sports coat, but no tie.
I just tweeted the Manolo to get his input.
Gates and Crowley seem like decent-enough guys who were unfortunate enought to have an encounter when they were both having a bad day.
They should have gone to a Red Sox game together.
Obama is continuing the trivialization of the presidency.
Look on the bright side...
That cop who acted "stupidly" made it to the White House.
That's more than Joe the Plumber can say after his "teachable" moment.
Althouse : ADDED: 7. Crowley gives a press conference in which he mainly says that the discussion was, upon agreement among the men, private. It was all "cordial." "No tension." Okay.
THIS is why Biden was there. Everyone knows that when he has a meeting it's secret.
"...decent-enough guys who were unfortunate enought to have an encounter when they were both having a bad day. "
Yeah...In Gates' defense, I would be pretty damn cranky after a flight from China.
IMO the menue is too blue collar for the new aristocrats of socialism. Champaign and OJ Mimosas with strawberries would have been better. Oops, did I talk about that innocent man OJ? And where are all the young hostesses? Berlusconi and Sarkozi have a lot left to teach Obama and Gates that Crowly cannot help them with.
Jason (the commenter): If Biden is Obama's only white friend he really is a racist. And if Obama brought Biden there to talk about anything he's even more ridiculous than anyone's so far imagined.
Where did the friend requirement come from? Are Obama and Biden even friends? Regardless, the press was kept out of earshot, so Biden might not have been such a bad choice.
lucid
Actually Obama did not prejudge the actions. Obama should not have said anything about it [much less called it stupid] but only because he is the President not because he was right or wrong.
But if you study the facts, read the police report, listen to the dispatch calls Crowley made it's pretty easy to see that he arrested Gates simply because Gates was rude to him. And the law is clear on that. As Fox News analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano said:
"if Professor Gates was arrested because of the words he used to the police inside his house, on the front porch, on his own lawn - it was an improper arrest." and also "When Professor Gates said 'no you can’t come in,' and the police went in anyway [the police] violated the federal Constitution."
I heard Alcoholics Anonymous and MADD disappove of these beerfests.
I happened to talk to a former baptist preacher this afternoon who was kind of aghast that they were encouraging the drinking of beer. He said he guesses other presidents drank but they didn't do it so publicly. Heh.
"Obama is continuing the trivialization of the presidency."
Which is a neat trick, don't you think, when you're the first black POTUS, you've already effectively nationalized the auto industry and the banks, and are proposing to rope another 1/6 of the economy directly under the government's control in healthcare?
1. Color balance.
2. Outside for paparazzi style photos with no chance for questions. The Obama White House isn't thoughtful enough to tell guests how they should dress so that they might be comfortable. Unless..never mind.
3. A picture is worth a 1000 words.
4. TV presenters only want to hear themselves talk.
5. Drink before dinner? Good idea, time for a wee dram of single malt.
6. I'll wait until I've had a few before I watch our President. More ice please.
Beer before dinner?
I drank my Negra Modelo for this occassion, and its still 2 hours before we eat. I am having chips and salsa, however.
I didn't see the munchies on Obama's picnic table, but I would guess baby carrots and ranch dressing.
"I guess by "comman man" you mean non-Christian hedonists and sinners who don't ever wear a suit to church."
Who wears suits to church anymore? In the summer? What is this, 1950?
Clergymen sometimes wear suits, but increasingly not often. Unless it's a wedding or a funeral it's pretty uncommon to see a suit in church. On this side of the Mississippi at least.
"Biden's really been given the short end of the stick. I'd resign if I were him."
Oh my! What if that happened just in time for the 2012 presidential election?
No worries, citizens. Hillary Clinton, nee neo communist, nee Rodham, at our "collective" service.
Nothing to worry about here, mcccullough.
Were they shelling peanuts too? It looked like Obama was wiping his hands on his pants.
This beer confab would have been a passably good idea if the press wasn't there. Why is everything a photo-op? Now it just makes we want to scream STFU.
Oy. Me. Not. We.
Agree Mad Man. It should have been inside and they should have served some mice steaks with the beer.
BTW, in real life, is there anything more useless than getting together for one drink?
This beer confab would have been a passably good idea if the press wasn't there.
This is the kind of thing that looks stupid when you make a big deal of it.
The most outlandish, contrived political photo op I have witnessed in my entire life.
Why is Biden there?
Biden is there because if Gates and Crowley go after each other they need two guys to pull them off of each other.
I heard that Obama did ask Rush to join him at the White House for drinks. Rush declined when he found out they were serving this.
Or, I guess the Secret Service could just shoot them both.
Yeah, I don't know why Biden's there.
Shanna : This is the kind of thing that looks stupid when you make a big deal of it.
But what else could Obama have done, made a simple and clear apology?
1 beer?
and bad beer at that :(
it's pretty easy to see that he arrested Gates simply because Gates was rude to him. And the law is clear on that.
Indeed it is; arresting people for repeatedly insulting others to their face has been constitutionally permitted for over sixty years.
I'm with MadisonMan.
And dress code should have been casual Friday clothes. Plus napkins so the President of the United States is not seen wiping his hands on his pants.
But it never should have happened at all. One more indication that Obama does not know what he's doing.
We. are. so. screwed.
MadisonMan : This beer confab would have been a passably good idea if the press wasn't there.
You're completely right. Imagine if the President had secretly arranged such a meeting between the two men and word had leaked out (deniably on purpose). That would have worked. Also: Obama apologizing (a real, personal apology), or just saying "no comment" in the first place.
I just want to know, was it "poignant"?
Meade : We. are. so. screwed.
Meade, we have been handed a lemon and I plan to have the most outrageous fun making lemonade with it the next few years.
This may turn out to be a golden age of comedy.
Let me get this straight: Rush says it's funny that the government is complaining about fat people and the president is drinking beer before dinner.
Do people who listen to Rush ever notice that he blathers on and on and on? He said that same thing over and over and over in the part Althouse quoted. I kept thinking he was getting to a point, but no, he just went on, saying the same thing.
What a waste of time and space. I fail to see the appeal.
We. are. so. screwed.
Yeah, that hand wiping thing has me worried for the fate of the country, too. Worst. President. Evah!
Beth : What a waste of time and space. I fail to see the appeal.
Rush isn't always about instant gratification. He works at things live on the air. Sometimes he comes up with brilliant material, sometimes he bombs or switches to something else. But we get to hear the thought process and follow along. I think that makes what he says more personal and also helps people get on the same wavelength as him.
It's intimate, what he does, even though it sounds brash sometimes.
ADDED: 7. Crowley gives a press conference in which he mainly says that the discussion was, upon agreement among the men, private. It was all "cordial." "No tension." Okay.
Ah! Come to think of it, that was the Teachable Moment: How to give a press conference without insulting an entire police department, inappropriately inserting oneself into an issue that is none of one's business, or making an idiotic joke about the President being shot for trying to jigger into his own front door.
Is Obama capable of learning from that Teachable Moment?
Why's Biden there?
Poor Joe, he probably figured.. 'this is my chance. I'll catch everybody shiet-faced..
I'll finally get to see him .
Revenant
arresting people for repeatedly insulting others to their face has been constitutionally permitted for over sixty years.
No way. Not in this case. You're forgetting one important element and that is if a man is in his own home he cannot be arrested for being rude. Yes, if you say something in public to a cop you can [in some places] get arrested. In your own home and on your own property no.
There was a good piece on NPR that interviewed some police officers in NYC and they said taking insults is part of a police officers job. Arresting someone for it means ulterior motive.
Also what do you mean by 'for over sixty years."? Did they used to allow insults everywhere or was the punishment worse?
I loved Rush's repetition. It's like what Gertrude Stein said, what we love we repeat, and what we repeat, we love.
These four guys should get together every weekend and do the exact same thing, and Rush should say the same exact thing. It could be like Groundhog Day, forever. Why should we ever get past this moment? The country would love it, and it would be good for the country to have this day until the end of time, or at least ntil the end of this presidency.
But they should start choosing American beer, and then at least one company's stock would start to go up again.
Lots of fun. Too bad about the gag order that Obama imposed. The after-drink interviews would have been delicious.
But all the possible delight was ruined by the gag-order.
Come on. Free speech and all that. Let the men talk!
Especially Biden!
The teachable moment here is, apparently to stop using the word "teachable moments"to describe meaningless photops and to start recognizing that anytime Obama has a teachable moment no one will actually learn or teach anything.
Beth, another reason people, especially politicians, should listen to Rush is because he often uses certain catch phrases like "throw under the bus" or "teachable moment" and it makes them look ridiculous when they use them.
"Rush isn't always about instant gratification. He works at things live on the air. Sometimes he comes up with brilliant material, sometimes he bombs or switches to something else. But we get to hear the thought process and follow along. I think that makes what he says more personal and also helps people get on the same wavelength as him."
Yes, it's the thinking in real time, vocalized, that makes it so interesting to listen to someone. It's also something that happens in a good law school class and is something I love about teaching law school. I think he himself likes to talk to figure out what he thinks and to have fun thinking, and that's what makes it so cool to listen. You get to inhabit another person's brain. Most radio/TV folk are not doing that. It's too risky, and it probably wouldn't be good enough.
It looks as awkward as I'd anticipated. The upside is if Gates and Crowley could actually stay in touch, they've got a lot to offer each other. They know each other's blind spots and could really raise the level of police/minority relations. Crowley's race relations class could dramatically improve, as could Gates' teaching and writing (geez, I guess sometimes I do see the glass have full...).
AJ - MADD, maybe, but AA wouldn't touch this with a 10' pole - they make no opinion on such matters.
The only thing I can seriously muster (why Biden).. is a really childish thing.
Two white guys and two black guys.
Sad. going backwards.
VPs only used to go to funerals.
Let's hope this is a good omen ;)
It was all "cordial."
Even cops get State Department training these days.
I, too, value repetition as a teaching tool, and I like hearing people think aloud. But the quote I read was boring. I've listened to Rush in the past and I hear a carnival barker without the panache. I hear smug without any real human depth behind it. I don't get the Rush appeal. Reading Jason's gush about him makes my skin crawl.
I like the Stein reference and will add another: there's no there there.
Beth, he's got 3 hours to kill 5 days a week. It would take a better man than Rush for that all to be original, brilliant gems.
Flash News: Ann Althouse loves to inhabit brains. This means that we have to clean up our brains quick because company is coming.
This beer summit looked pretty ridiculous to me. But I think Obama means well so I'm giving him a pass on it. I think he knows he made a mistake bringing up the Gates thing in the press conference, but in the end he still comes through as a nice guy trying to do the right thing. Although I hate to think how many meetings they had to have over what beer Obama would choose to drink in order to send the right message to the people.
I think Obama has all but admitted he made a bit of a mistake (and being president is HARD, so don't think you wouldn't make a lot of these mistakes yourself). Maybe Crowley should admit he made a mistake handcuffing and arresting Gates, and Gates should admit he made a mistake flipping out on Crowley right off the bat. But I guess arrogant cops and arrogant profs won't admit mistakes in public. Hopefully their private conversation over the beer did some good to ease the tensions between them, though.
And, it's a nice teaching point to suggest tht people who are in conflict with each other should sit down over a beer and try to allow cooler heads to prevail. I remember when I was a kid and some of us in the neighborhood were having a conflict with this one kid, the kid's dad asked us to come by and have some lemonade. I thought it was weird that he'd ask us to do that, but it worked like a charm, and we were all friends in the end.
Loafing Oaf...You must subscribe to the Geo. T Patton method near the last scene of the movie Patton when he toasted the Russian General.
The WH fumbled again.
Joe the bartender show them how is done.
Beth, he's got 3 hours to kill 5 days a week. It would take a better man than Rush for that all to be original, brilliant gems.
That's pretty much what I mean by a waste of time and space. Fifteen hours of blather a week. I don't like talk radio.
I was being snarky about AA and MADD disapproving the White House beerfest.
I don't like talk radio.
Me neither. I can flip over for 15 minutes or so, but it drives me up the wall after that. I don't like the morning radio personalities either.
How long did it take Biden to start telling jokes about a black, muslim and irishman going into a bar...
and when did they start playing quarters.
These guys choice of beer sucks ass.....
There is no doubt Rush will go down in history as one of the most ifluential figures of his time.
It is fair to say he revived perhaps saved AM radio, perfected the political talk radio show, had excellent showmanship skills, triumphed over personal weaknesses, was an skilled debater, and mastered the art of cleanly skinning his opponents.
Yet he was consistenly pilloried by the MSM and blackballed from ever receiving any of the media's or radio industry's awards.
"Which is a neat trick, don't you think, when you're the first black POTUS, you've already effectively nationalized the auto industry and the banks, and are proposing to rope another 1/6 of the economy directly under the government's control in healthcare?"
*deep sigh*
I've always had a "thing" for magic men.
But THIS time, I am joined by millions.
Now that's a first.
Has the world gone magical too?
Yes, it's the thinking in real time, vocalized, that makes it so interesting to listen to someone.
I agree.
Rush explained one time that the IF the idea of "conservatism" (what the show is about) is really in his hart he doesn't need show prep. Its going to come out of him.
It seems to me that the test of time bears out the highest praise for Rush.
If he didn't have it he would not have been on the air this long with those ratings.
These guys choice of beer sucks ass.....
I'm having a Guinnes. (extra stout)
LoafingOaf : But I think Obama means well...
Yes, he had good intentions, and we all know where those lead.
I heard Ricky Gervais hit the White House in PJs.
Fifteen hours of blather a week.
Beth dear.. you are being uncharacteristically uncharitable.
(try to say that 3x as fast at a beer summit ;)
Looks pretty awkward. It would be nice to know what Crowley really thinks about the conversation, but he will have the professionalism to keep to the agreement that the conversation was private.
Will Biden, Obama and Gates do the same? Only if it is in their self interest to do so.
I hope Obama is capable of learning from his mistakes, because he's making a shitload of them.
Rush has a good show. His popularity is based on it. Madame Althouse,is thinking out loud and in so doing can reach a conclusion to his thought process. After all, Rush is a brilliant entertainer. I repeat, he is an entertainer. Take his words for what they represent.
The reaction of some people to him amazes me. Time for another dram. Cheers.
Tara: Blue Moon is good! Especially good in the summertime. Although he probably would like Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse more.
If I had been Crowley, though, I'd have chosen something like Steel Reserve 211 "high gravity" malt liquor, or a 40 of King Cobra.
I'm more a hard liquor person, myself. Johnnie Walker Black on the rocks for me, please! I guess presidents are not allowed to drink the hard stuff in public anymore. Even though some of the great leaders of history did!
Obama was a coward to choose Budweiser just because it's the most popular beer in America. Does the president really have to check the polls even when choosing a beer? And if he wanted to go with an inexpensive American beer, he still could've made a much more interesting choice!
AJ, who does he debate? Does he engage people in actual discussions, or debates?
..he still could've made a much more interesting choice!
Schaefer
Lem, no, I'm just being honest. It's blather to me. And it's not entertainment, it's politics, and demagoguery. I do not get the appeal at all. Entertainment is the delivery mechanism, but it's not the point.
"Yes, it's the thinking in real time, vocalized, that makes it so interesting to listen to someone"
Spoken like a successful blogger, Althouse.
Putting that aside, there is still some truth in that.
I'm just being honest. It's blather to me.
If you listen (with an open mind ;) for more than just one day .. you change your mind.
No way. Not in this case. You're forgetting one important element and that is if a man is in his own home he cannot be arrested for being rude. Yes, if you say something in public to a cop you can [in some places] get arrested. In your own home and on your own property no.
Nonsense. Lemmee put it to you this way: a cop comes a knocking on your door investigating a reported ongoing crime in progress inside your home, a crime like burglary, and you choose to be a complete asshole to him, verbally or otherwise, chances are very very good you're going downtown. Doesn't matter where it happened. In the home, outside the home, locked in the bathroom, in the basement, in the garage, in the backyard, In the front yard, wherever, anywhere or everywhere in and around the home. I bet it happened just last night at least 500 times throughout the country. 500 times minimum. Probably more. It's a little thing called "domestic disturbance." And that's what this was in its own fashion.
Beth:
By debates I mean Rush takes actual arguments or quotes from such brilliant liberal thinkers like Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank, etc and debunks the logic and fallacy of their argument.
In effect, on air he slowly and deliberately pops their "dumb idea" balloons.
I suspect Ruch would be very willing to debate them on his show but I doubt any have the guts to accept his challenge. He recently offered to debate Obama as far as I know Obama has failed to respond to his offer.
Obama, unlike Rush, tends to use anecdotes or unnamed straw men for his adversaries.
I do not get the appeal at all.
I thought Rush was interesting back in the early 90s because he would talk about different news articles from all around the country that were not in the local paper. These days, all you have to do is pop onto the internet to find all of that at your fingertips.
I think cops use the disorderly conduct arrest many many times just to get an idiot out of his house for a night so he does not harm himself or a family member.
Obama drank Bud Light for the same reason he threw out the first pitch at an all-star game in St. Louis, and has shitty-pizza from a St. Louis pizzeria flown to the White House.
He lost Missouri to McCain by the skin of Biden's teeth.
It kills Obama that he didn't win Missouri. He's that competitive and stubborn that he thinks by getting a few more rich white guys in the St. Louis burbs to like him it's as if he really won Missouri. It's pathetic.
"I'm having a Guinness"
That's a heavy beer for a hot summer day... but a good choice!
As for me, I've got Guinness in the fridge, but it takes second place my evening Murphy's--which I've grown rather attached to this past year.
Most of my friends around here have gotten really into Stone Brewery. They've got one called Arrogant Bastard that's quite good.
Of their beers, I'd probably go with Gates and have the Red Stripe.
But they each only had one? That's not a conversation or even really sharing a beer. That's an uncomfortable meeting while trying to look casual for the camera. I would have really respected the chat if they each had 2 or 3--or someone serving a pitcher or refilling their glasses.
Hot and still thirsty, no doubt. What a sad event for the cameras.
Look people, the reason why Beth can't ever get Rush is because she's a left-wing hack and hates conservatives. There's really nothing more to it. I mean maybe some people find Randi Rhodes entertaining, but I hate the fucking bitch.
AJ, who does he debate? Does he engage people in actual discussions, or debates?
Disclaimer. The only time I have ever listened to Rush is when I'm driving in my car for an extended trip. The rest of the time, I'm working and listen to jazz and old standards like Ella Fitzgerald.
He doesn't debate. He doesn't have to. The point of the show is for him to do a stream of conscious type of discussion that is directed at the listeners. He is talking TO the audience and occasionally the audience will phone in and he will talk with them. This is the appeal of the format. He is not debating with other hoity toity elitist high brow know it alls.....he is talking TO the listeners.
The reason that there is so much repetition is due to the fact that many of his listeners are mobile, in cars and trucks or are at a work environments where they can only listen for a while.
Just like the morning news shows that become repetitious because many of THIER listeners have gone off to work....Rush repeats himself because rarely would anyone sit and listen for the entire time. Think of the show as a small series of reruns.
I'll reiterate the point once again. He is talking TO the listeners and not conducting a talking heads marathon or pseudo debate.
I'd rather have a beer with Biden, actually.
I bet he's a good guy to have a beer with.
Granted, I don't drink beer, but I'm using it the way I'd say "go out for coffee" or "go get pie"... no assumption of coffee drinking or pie is involved.
(Yes, I'm lying about no pie.)
Ha ha ha. Althouse, you watch the craziest stuff.
I think officer Crowley is sincere and I appreciate that he hasn't taken the bait that the far right wing wants him to take. He could have become a Rush/Hannity/Beck buddy really quickly and play into their Obama hate game. But he won't do that and for that I respect him.
He seems to understand the 'lager' picture.
Look people, the reason why Beth can't ever get Rush is because she's a left-wing hack and hates conservatives. There's really nothing more to it. I mean maybe some people find Randi Rhodes entertaining, but I hate the fucking bitch.
For the record I like Rosie O Donnel. I also think Vanden Heuvel is hot. (cant get any more liberal)
I think every conservative should look into his soul and say who they like despite their politics.
This idea is probably taught in the navel academy as strategery.
You have to know the enemy .. enough to even get to like them.
The Manolo says Crowley and Gates were properly attired.
http://twitter.com/shoeblogger
It's okay not to get Rush.
I don't really care to listen to him, but sometimes like him when he's in transcript.
Oh... and I think that Dust Bunny is right about the repetition being because people listen while doing other things... they don't pay that much attention. Plus, he's got to keep talking and saying the same things over gives him time to decide what to say next and gives his staff time to look stuff up.
I think cops use the disorderly conduct arrest many many times just to get an idiot out of his house for a night so he does not harm himself or a family member.
I was convicted of "disorderly conduct" once. Though, just minor misdemeanor disorderly conduct, so it doesn't haunt my record. I wasn't actually disorderly. I was in the back seat of a car that got pulled over and the driver had all sorts of problems, such as a suspended license and a warrant, and she didn't even pull over right away so that ticked the cops off (they actually had their guns out).
And so I was in the wrong car with the wrong driver at the wrong time and they found out I had a small amount of marijuana on me. Then I plea bargained minor misdemeanor marijuana possession into minor misdemeanor disorderly conduct. Apparently it saved me from having my driver's license suspended, though I have no idea what I was doing that was "disorderly". I was just sitting in the back seat of a car with a tiny bit of weed on me, minding my own business.
Have a beer with them.. yes
Just like the morning news shows that become repetitious because many of THIER listeners have gone off to work....
I'm having flashbacks of being at an election night party at 4 in the morning in 2000 and watching the newscaster spend two hours repeating after every commercial break "if you've just joined us..." and then giving the spill.
I definately would have a beer with Biden. Obama not so much. Crowley too, because he's pretty cute.
Lem:
If you like Vanden Heuvel, you must like them angry.
Synova:
I had heard once Biden say he does not drink. On TV tonight, they said he drank one of those "near beers".
I usually agree with you but Biden makes me question the intelligence of Delaware voters.
"For the record I like Rosie O Donnel. I also think Vanden Heuvel is hot. (cant get any more liberal)
I think every conservative should look into his soul and say who they like despite their politics."
I did like Rosie. I also liked Rosanne. I liked Sarah Bernhardt. I thought Gerofalo was grand. Whoopi was absolutely fabulous. Babs, remarkable.
But you know... I don't think any of them *want* me for a fan.
But you know... I don't think any of them *want* me for a fan.
It's hard to continue liking someone who routinely refers to you and people like as an idiot, evil, racist, etc...
In general, I prefer to have conversations about politics one on one with people who I disagree with, but they have to be the kind who can actually have that kind of conversation without getting angry or pulling out schoolyard insults.
If you like Vanden Heuvel, you must like them angry.
If look at her YouTubes she is on the wrong side of history lots of times, but it doesn't phase her.
She really believes her stuff.
I think this is what Althouse believes when she says Obama should get his choice in the Supremes.
Eventually the choices we make bear fruit one way or the other.
I like Ellen Degeneres- she is hilarious and never resorts to mean-spirited humor.
I used to like Rosie but she went off the deep end politically and loudly.
I think Alec Baldwin is a great great actor.
But you know... I don't think any of them *want* me for a fan.
You got me there :(
Lem:
You got that right - Katrina is a believer.
She is also a trust fund baby boomer who grew up in Manhattan and whose father gave her that magazine (I believe that is accurate pretty much).
I liked Sarah Bernhardt.
Me too.
Rush was cool in the '90s, when he was railing against political correctness when PC was a its peak, and when he poked fun at the crazy things "feminazis" were saying, and when he gave that crook, Slick Willy, such a hard time. I haven't gotten into Rush for many years now, though. And I think he and many other Republicans are very wrong to act like they don't give a shit about the environment. It's one thing to oppose specific policies related to the environment. But to give the impression that you don't give a shit about the environment is a losing position. How can any decent person not care about the state of the environment that we're leaving to the next generation?
I like Ellen Degeneres- she is hilarious and never resorts to mean-spirited humor.
There are decent Americans on the other sidE.
Limbaugh is a birther amd easily the most visible conspiracy theorists in America. it makes you wonder how avid listeners like Althouse find so much common ground with a fruitcake like him who constantly pick on people much less powerful than him; like single moms, the handicapped, and of course minorities. As it usually goes though, tough guys like Limbaugh are the first to chicken out in a real fight, and who hasn't had a natural hard on in probably 30 years.
How can any decent person not care about the state of the environment that we're leaving to the next generation?
One thing is caring and another is to want to alter our way of life overnight.
Next he's having George W over for a non-alcoholic brew.
Got to get those poll numbers up!
One thing is caring and another is to want to alter our way of life overnight.
But Lem, Rush spends a lot of time trying to convince his listeners that everything scientists are saying about our environmental problems is bullshit. Why can't he at least be as responsible on these issues as InstaPundit? I don't understand why the conservative agenda has to include not caring about the health of our environment.
Rush ...easily the most visible conspiracy theorists in America.
Actually if you look into the Rothschild conspiracy nobody has disputed the new world order people (people who could be said to be closer aligned to conservatives) than Rush.
They used to call him all the time and he would refute them on the air.
No way. Not in this case. You're forgetting one important element and that is if a man is in his own home he cannot be arrested for being rude.
Well, you're welcome to cite the Supreme Court ruling that held that. But in any case, Gates followed the cop outside, so whatever "insulting cops in your home is legal" precedent you're applying here isn't applicable. :)
But Lem, Rush spends a lot of time trying to convince his listeners that everything scientists are saying about our environmental problems is bullshit. Why can't he at least be as responsible on these issues as InstaPundit? I don't understand why the conservative agenda has to include not caring about the health of our environment.
I'm with you there..
I think the nature of the show lends itself to a kind of black and white view of things.
But I think people understand that. I don't go to Rush for certain kinds of analysis. the environment is one of them.. the economy
No, Lem. I've listened more than a day. I'm quite comfortable in my judgment on talk radio in general, and Rush specifically. I'm not in the cult.
How can any decent person not care about the state of the environment that we're leaving to the next generation?
A more interesting question is "how can any decent person care about nothing other than the state of the environment we're leaving to the next generation".
There is no such thing as a person who doesn't care about the state of the environment. No such people exist, nor have they ever. What distinguishes an environmentalist from a normal person is how they answer the question "is it right to condemn billions of people to grinding poverty and early death for the benefit of plants and animals". Environmentalists say "yes, it is". Normal people say "obviously not".
Rev: But in any case, Gates followed the cop outside, so whatever "insulting cops in your home is legal" precedent you're applying here isn't applicable. :)
The cop lured him outside and claimed he had to because of the "acoustics" in the house. Furthermore, the nearly instant dismissal of all charges shows the arrest was bullshit.
Speaking of hot libs. Naomy Wolf is on Fox.
I might like having a beer with people who are falling off the right OR the left.
A picnic of centrists would be totally boring.
Lem, I like people for their performances, too. I'll watch Gary Sinise, Kelsey Grammar, and Ron Silver and others who ID as conservative. That's all good.
chuck b. The Manolo says Crowley and Gates were properly attired.
Good work chuck b. (!), I'm amazed he stepped into this political minefield. Also, I agree with him.
Perhaps Obama saw his two guests arive and thought it would look too formal if everyone were in suits. He decided to go with rolled up sleeves. But then he'd look weird, being the only one with rolled up sleeves, so Biden got dragged into it (he didn't roll up his sleeves but did go without a jacket).
! Just thought of evidence. Remember how Obama was keeping the heat up really high in the White House in winter because he likes it like a sauna? We know he wouldn't mind being in a suit out there.
I think the Biden mystery has been solved, but everyone is free to shoot down my silly theory.
By the way, to analyze Crowley's statement:
He didn't feel tension, because he knows he's done nothing wrong. THEY were cordial because they know he has the power to damage them.
Like dogs before a lion.
I woke up in the middle of the night in a hotel room last night and I think I saw - in my zone halfway between being in a dream and being awake - Howard Dean filling in as host for Keith Olberman? I guess Keith is a bigger shill for the Democrats than Rush is for the Republicans?
But I'm tired of all the shills across the board.
But Lem, Rush spends a lot of time trying to convince his listeners that everything scientists are saying about our environmental problems is bullshit
Because most of it IS total bullshit and not proven science.
Also what Revenant said.
The eco nazi's and nanny statists have been wailing about one thing or another all my life. First it is going to be an ice age. Oh wait... global warming...oh wait...maybe just climate change. Booo hoooo some spotted owls are going to die so let't put hundreds of thousands of people out of work....oh wait....nevermind the owls like the open land and their real enemy is other bigger owls.
Butter is bad for you...eat margarine. But wait.... margarine is bad too....so eat olive oil...oh forget it eat butter in moderation along with wine which used to be bad but seems to be ok for now anyway.
I don't believe a freaking word that they say because they all have a hidden agenda.....$$$$ makes the world go around and they just con useful idiots like you into believing their latest mantra.
I'm not in the cult.
you mean this one ;)
What if they were making the world spin around for you and me, dbq?
Would that be too hard to imagine?
I guess Keith is a bigger shill for the Democrats than Rush is for the Republicans?
Rush has had Chris Matthews guess host several times.
What cable news program do I like to watch? RED EYE!!!! Te only thing good going on Fox nowadays. Fox seems taken over these days by this nutcase, Glenn Beck, and it's really annoying.
What national talk radio program do I like to listen to? Even though he's way to the right of me and ultra-religious to my atheism, Michael Medved has a pretty good show. Just don't listen to him on Halloween, when he acts like it's some kind of satanic holiday.
I think Mark Levin is a very smart man, but his show is too angry for my tastes.
I missed it. I'm glad.
What if they were making the world spin around for you and me, dbq?
Would that be too hard to imagine?
Who? What?
The world spins around due to the laws of physics.
The eco nuts and global warming fanatics like Gore are in it for themselves. For money. Greed. Power. The people who mindlessly parrot the mantra are just useful idiots.
Rush's best guest host is Mark Steyn, and he is so much better than Rush it is amazing he doesn't have his own show. I guess it can only be because he doesn't want his own show?
What if this "show" turned out to be for all of us?
Can you even imagine that someone, or some few, or even some many, set out to make this world a better place for us?
Can you even imagine that someone, or some few, or even some many, set out to make this world a better place for us
Yes and more's the pity because they are the useful idiots of the users. People who have really great dreams and no ability or wilpower to achieve those dreams and are the unwitting tools who cause more harm.
Spare us from those who mean well but accomplish evil.
And especially people
Who care about strangers
Who care about evil
And social injustice
Do you only
Care about the bleeding crowd?
How about a needing friend?
I need a friend
I am absolutely CERTAIN of that.
Oh, no, Lem, not that cult either. It's full of useless blathering as well. There are people who post there that I likely will read elsewhere, but I don't like the celebrity blathering and the stupid alternative medicine blathering and so on.
But then I am lazy...SO?
Whose lights do you want to punch out tonight?
Penny and Beth we need a beer summit ;)
Lem, are you drinking near-beer these days? I'll make sure to have some on hand if we hold a summit.
Lem, are you drinking near-beer these days?
I dont follow.
Don't mind me...
I will be the one over there >>>>>> with my glass half full.
Wondering exactly what "game" you think you are playing?
Wondering exactly what "game" you think you are playing?
It was an innocent suggestion Penny.
"And I think he and many other Republicans are very wrong to act like they don't give a shit about the environment."
Republicans are wrong to act like they aren't concerned about racism.
Republicans are wrong to act like they don't care about sick people.
Oh wait...
That's spin, isn't it.
When someone doesn't care in the proper *way* the spin is that they don't care at all. It's a lie, repeated.
At some point a person with self respect has to say "enough" and not play along.
I can't imagine how any real life episode could be more ridiculous and ungainly than this. It's like a comedy skit and it would be a funny one too, because it's so stupid. The characters, the plot, motivations, the wardrobe - classic comedy. I see Bill Murray, Chevy Chase, John Clease and Steve Carell as the actors.
Who the hell let this happen? Is everyone completely nuts in this administration. Just incredibly uncool.
Only a nerd nest of lunch money relinquishing lame asses could produce this.
Ha! I killed the fly that been driving me crazy all evening. It landed on my screen and was mesmerized by a LoafingOaf comment.
What happened to the guys who wrote Hair? I still can't believe my parents went to see it live--and brought the album home for us kids to listen to. Guess the bad words went over my mother's head, just like the nude actors did when they went to the stage.
I enjoyed Rush's TV show for a year or two. Then the local channel moved it from 11pm to 2am.
A half hour was enough. Never heard the radio show.
"Only a nerd nest of lunch money relinquishing lame asses could produce this."
And YOU are a third cousin...once removed, inbreeding with that hand of yours.
See me in the morning.
Dammit, now I bet I have Lem showing up tomorrow morning.
Of for cripes sake...
Knock knock who's there?
Lem
Lem who?
Lem.on.aid
knock knock who's there?
Penny
Penny who?
The cop lured him outside and claimed he had to because of the "acoustics" in the house.
Even if it was true that Gates was "lured" outside (apparently you don't have to be too bright to teach African American studies), there is no "I was tricked into leaving my house" exception to fighting words law.
Furthermore, the nearly instant dismissal of all charges shows the arrest was bullshit.
It shows that Gates has powerful political connections. Hard to deny when the President himself instantly sided against the cop without -- by his own admission -- knowing the facts of the case first. The charges would have stuck against anyone who wasn't a member of the political elite.
Rev. This has not one thing to do with the elite.
Unless you have a hammer?
Blogger Penny said...
What if they were making the world spin around for you and me?
That Obama, he is just like Bush.
It is interesting to see what gets treated as science and what doesn't.
For example, the hypothesis that the earth is warming primarily due to human activity is treated as rock-solid science. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that that is true.
Similarly, the notion that polar bears are dying off because of the aforementioned global warming is treated as rock-solid science. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that that ALSO is true.
But then comes the troublesome bit, because you have both scientists and self-proclaimed champions of climate science proclaiming that it is a bad thing that polar bears are dying off. But that's not science; that's a value judgment. The scientific truth is that it actually wouldn't make a lick of difference to the survival or well-being of either (a) humanity or (b) the rest of the planet if ALL the polar bears died off due to loss of habitat.
Poverty and premature death are and always will go hand in hand. Ditto for poverty and misery. Anyone suggesting that we spend money to save, e.g., polar bears, is (even if they don't admit it) proposing that we either increase human misery or fail to decrease it, and that we either shorten human lifespans or fail to increase them.
So any honest person has to ask himself: how many minutes of MY life would I trade for the life of a polar bear?
Rev. This has not one thing to do with the elite. Unless you have a hammer?
If that's a joke, I don't get it. If it isn't a joke then it is a really silly thing to say. :)
Sing Ho, for the life of a Bear!
Revenant: It shows that Gates has powerful political connections.... The charges would have stuck against anyone who wasn't a member of the political elite.
Nothing in the Gates story I have heard supports arresting him for violating Massachusetts law. See what the law says at this post at the Volokh Conspiracy blog. You read that and think the charges would stick?!
Gates was a dick, but he did not violate any law and his arrest was an abuse of power by the cop. I don't see how any other conclusion can be made after looking at that law of that state. And, as I said, they instantly dismissed the charges.
This makes the cop a bigger dick than Gates. But I know you will side with the cop because he's a Republican and Gates is a Democrat.....
I assume she' referring to the adage, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Still silly.
You read that and think the charges would stick?!
Yes, because Gates' little racist shit fit was loud and disruptive enough that a crowd began to gather. That qualifies it as a public nuisance and/or riotous commotion, as in the fourth quoted section.
Gates was a dick, but he did not violate any law and his arrest was an abuse of power by the cop.
Prior to his arrest, Gates attempted to use his abuse his own political power to attack the cop. So even if the cop did "abuse" his power (and I don't concede that he did), what he did to Gates is no worse that what Gates tried to do to him first. If he'd gotten a broom handle up the ass I might have been sympathetic, but a couple hours in jail is fair punishment from trying to coerce your way out of police questioning.
I think the other officer involved said it all as written in a related article:
"Meanwhile, a black Cambridge police sergeant on the scene the day of Gates' arrest wrote a letter to Crowley, asking him to mention to Gates and Obama that he is now known as the "black sergeant" and to some others as an "uncle Tom."
"I'm forced to ponder the notion that as a result of speaking the truth and coming to the defense of a friend and colleague, who just happens to be white, that I have somehow betrayed my heritage," Sgt. Leon Lashley wrote. "Please convey my concerns to the president that Mr. Gates' actions may have caused grave and potentially irreparable harm to the struggle for racial harmony in this country and perhaps throughout the world."
Lashley wrote in the letter he would like Gates to reflect on the incident and ask himself what responsibility he bears, what he can do to heal the rift and what he can do to mitigate the damage done to the officers' reputations."
Gates and Obama both did a great deal of harm to the "struggle for racial harmony."
sick of Obama (re Lashley's letter):
This does not conform to the Post-Beer-Race-In-America narrative and will be disappeared from the textbooks, like they did in Soviet Russia.
LoafingOaf -
You keep saying that Crowley abused his power, but yet you won't take me up on my challenge to go scream at the top of your lungs from your front porch to the point where the cops are called and then refuse to cooperate when the cops tell you to chill out.
There's a reason for that, and it's because you know full well that you'd be arrested for it: the same as anybody else.
It's ridiculous to keep claiming that Gates did nothing wrong when you refuse to repeat the experiment.
After all, you'd be able to reap quite a hefty return on your lawsuit against your local police department for wrongful arrest if what they did what Crowley did and you were the picture of innocence that you claim Gates was. Right?
So why not reap the obvious windfall that you so richly deserve since you know the law so well. Right?
Let me know how that works out for you.
That meeting in the White House playground was not a beer event. it was just a feel-good photo op.
If Obama truly wanted to stage a beer event to smooth over the nerves rubbed raw by the Gates Crowley episode, he should have had the beer event in private, in the WH basement, with a big screen TV showing a sports event, and a selection of beers to choose from.
Obama should also have challenged Crowley and Gates to settle their grievances with a chugging contest, or maybe arm wrestling. Biden should have gotten blotto. There should have been hamburgers and pizza, or at least salted in the shell peanuts.
And a couple of Hooter Girls brought in to serve the beer and generally brighten up the event.
That's how men resolve their differences - beer, food, sports and titties. Not photo ops outdoors in suits and white shirts, where not one actually drinks the beer.
And the only post-event statement made to the press should have been loud belches.
This is just another "ploy" BO is using to show he is just a regular guy. Truth is he is a racist & a socialist. Isn't there more important things going on in or country. By 2012 he will be the laughing stock of our great country!!!
Umm - did he bill them for the beers?
Rush is a loose cannon, firing at will. I find it rather menacing because he will often take out the main mast of his own ship, and just laugh, and go on and on. Once years ago he was joking that it didn't matter if we dropped nuclear bombs all over the planet because nature has always grown back. It was one of those jaw-dropping moments. Even his own staff was laughing nervously. What's weird is that he didn't get mad, but went on to make more points, on that day it was about he weirdness of black people's hair since the Mod Squad and blending into corn rows.
He just goes wherever.
I think he's a lot like Gertrude Stein, who was a similar kind of loose cannon, and not very devoted to the points she was making. A kind of mad humorist like Rush, using repetition, and emphasis, to create a sort of ragtime of overlapping riffs.
But when Stein said there's no there there, she was talking about Oakland, I think, where she was raised.
I don't know where Rush is from, or how his sense of identity was framed by that place. Many people feel they are in flight from their place of birth, esp. if it was a small town, and are desperate to become cosmopolitan, or something else.
I don't know where Rush is coming from, or whether he's devoted to that place, or not, but that would be part of where he's going on any particular day.
I sense that he likes where he's from, and loved his dad, and is not going anyplace in particular, but is just reiterating the basic points of orientation of his origins, to keep his bearings, and those of his listeners, intact.
1. Why's Biden there?
a. he's vice president of the united states and the president asked him. best as i can figure it is 2:2 black and white like that matters.
2. It was 86° when this happened — the hottest time of the day — and Crowley and Gates are in dark suits and ties?
a. because you don't show up at the white house in a sportshirt to meet the president of the united states.
3. ..it's supposed to convey a message to America and the world about racial harmony.
a. no. it is supposed to show that people with disagreements can sit down and talk.
4. The "RACE IN AMERICA: AFTER THE BEERS" frenzy of non-analysis on CNN was truly absurd.
a. as are your observations. as are you.
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