April 2, 2009

"I love movies like that..."

219 comments:

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Seven Machos said...

I remember having a conversation with some friends about pre-election. You should vote for Obama, they told me, because this is such a huge event, to have a black man as president. You aren't going to be able to say you participated.

That conversation stuck with me, and it sticks with me even now. It's like the vote was some kind of mass cultural performance art, wherein we would forever cast off the egregious racial sins of our past.

Well, dudes, you did it. And now you are stuck with craptastic policies of a flawed person who is in greatly over his head. I hope it was worth it.

traditionalguy said...

If Obama is like Bush, then the movie she is commenting upon may have been about Bush before the _OPE took over..

Pete the Streak said...

Yeah, these types of movies are real tearjerkers. Literally.

Obama, being a brother, confirms prior post's 'study' and breeds mucho distress.

kynefski said...

Damn, there's one from the echo chamber.

MadisonMan said...

How would this play differently if it were a bunch of Conservatives walking past a Bush poster?

Obama is like Bush. I agree with traditionalguy.

Quayle said...

Libertarian Chicago Law Professor Richard Epstein gives his inside view of Obama, gleaned from his rubbing shoulders with him at Chicago Law School and as a neighbor in Hyde Park.

Bissage said...

A better caption: “After all these years of seeing movies it still surprises me when the hero turns out to be the villain.”

former law student said...

Thanks for linking to the site; it put the cartoon in context: Lifelong civil rights and peace activist Pete Seeger still represents the Red Menace. Plus I haven't seen so many kneeslapping strawman argument cartoons since my subscription to American Opinion ran out. Makes me want to reread None Dare Call It Treason

Paul Zrimsek said...

How would this play differently if it were a bunch of Conservatives walking past a Bush poster?

Well, the poster wouldn't say "Hope" on it and would be a bit less Soviet generally, but otherwise, yeah, pretty much the same.

Bissage said...

How would this play differently if it were a bunch of Conservatives walking past a Bush poster?

“The happy ending was too contrived.”

Seven Machos said...

When the message is incontestable, Former, attack the medium. You failed, but you picked the best available strategy.

Bissage said...

Three more captions:

(1) “I love a happy ending.”

(2) “Everyone knows the killer is hiding behind the door but they walk in every time.”

(3) “Let’s skip the ice cream and go straight to my place for a nasty three-way.”

Marcia said...

MM, how many people in 2000 (or 2004) thought Bush was a "super-cool guy that everyone staked their dreams on"?

As it turns out, in some ways Obama is like Bush, but I don't think it can be seriously argued that Bush won the White House based on charisma and rock-star status.

former law student said...

When the message is incontestable, Former, attack the medium.

At the core of the movement is the Republican Party itself. But then there are various Republican Front organizations ("transmission belts"), which attract fellow travelers who want to avoid being associated with the Party. Then there are sympathizers, who are attracted to one or more Republican principles, but disagree with the rest. Finally there are moderates, which can be led into publicly advocating Republican positions, despite their basic disagreements with the Party.

From You Can Trust the Republicans (To Be Republican)

Zachary Paul Sire said...

This is supposed to be revelatory how? The same people who were calling Obama a fake and a creepo one year ago are calling Obama a fake and a creepy today. And?

Or, has Althouse changed her mind and now considers Obama a fraud? Or is this just fodder for the peanut gallery? If she thinks he's a fraud now and not what she expected, I'd love to here her explain how it all changed.

Robert Cook said...

It's funny to hear Bush supporters--not that I know if anyone here is or was--declare Obama to be a creep and a fake. Do they still not see their man as he is: a sadistic bully, incompetent, and utter failure? And talk about a creep and a fake! Bush is king of the creeps and fakes.

I don't speak as an Obama supporter; I voted for Nader, and stood in line for an hour for the privelege. I knew then what some are finding now, that Obama is just another establishment politician...smarter and smoother than Bush, more understanding of and interested in the policy issues he's overseeing, but still a paid puppet for the corporate owners of America.

Seven Machos said...

Of course you voted for Nader, Robert. He's the smartest of them all. There's a man with workable policies.

How come the rest of the dolts don't see it? And how come virtually all Americans naively believe that the United States is not a party to international law it hasn't agreed to? Knaves!

AJ Lynch said...

Quayle:

Thanks for the link to the law prof. He substantiated what I suspected about Obama's abilities, intellect and core beliefs.

It is not a very flattering picture of The One We Have Been Waiting For.

AJ Lynch said...

If Richard Epstein, the law prof, is correct we are definitely fucked.

Seven Machos said...

Epstein is rarely wrong. I am excited to get home and see this.

AJ Lynch said...

Seven:
Epstein answered questions very directly about Obama. Write down the soundbites - you will be surprised at his candor. But I think his answers will serve to re-affirm what you already suspect about The One.

rocketeer67 said...

"...[S]marter and smoother than Bush, more understanding of and interested in the policy issues he's overseeing, but still a paid puppet for the corporate owners of America."

...No...no...yes.

But do carry on with your self-delusion.

Henry said...

MM, how many people in 2000 (or 2004) thought Bush was a "super-cool guy that everyone staked their dreams on"?

Andrew Sullivan?

former law student said...

But I think his answers will serve to re-affirm what you already suspect about The One.

For a law professor, Epstein was surprisingly bad at backing up his assertions with facts. The most strongly supported thesis is that you don't want to play poker with Obama. Oh, and he's a real liberal who doesn't realize that taxation is theft.

MadisonMan said...

Was Nader even on the ballot?

My roommate in 1980 threw his vote away on John Anderson.

Seven Machos said...

You, Richard Epstein! A law professor!

LarsPorsena said...

"At the core of the movement is the Republican Party itself. But then there are various Republican Front organizations ("transmission belts"), which attract fellow travelers who want to avoid being associated with the Party. Then there are sympathizers, who are attracted to one or more Republican principles, but disagree with the rest. Finally there are moderates, which can be led into publicly advocating Republican positions, despite their basic disagreements with the Party."

Substitute Communist for Republican
and we have a pithy analysis of the
Commintern circa 1930.

Hoosier Daddy said...

How would this play differently if it were a bunch of Conservatives walking past a Bush poster?

Well considering that few if any conservatives saw Bush as the One who would be the deliverer of all conservative hope and dreams it wouldn't play at all.

Seven Machos said...

Uh oh.

Shanna said...

re: Bush
a sadistic bully, incompetent, and utter failure

No, sometimes, too soon to tell.

traditionalguy said...

There is one difference in Obama from Bush that has me alert to what he does next. I do not think Bush would ever agree to a give away of United States' Sovreignty to a world Scam, I mean Government, no matter how bad the stock market gets from the shock over the Toxic Assets fed into the Banks all over the world since 2004. But who knows whether the owning of all the nuclear weapons in the world under one World Authority would have done to tempt even Bush?

MadisonMan said...

Incidentally, I can't tell...does the poster say HOPE, NOPE or DOPE?

Robert Cook said...

"...considering that few if any conservatives saw Bush as the One who would be the deliverer of all conservative hope and dreams...."

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Until his administration crashed and burned beyond all denying, even the staunchest hetero conservatives would have been happy to suck Bush's dick.

Madison Man: Nader was on the ballot in New York State, where I reside, and in many other states as well.

Seven Machos said...

Robert -- So full of love. With people like you in charge, cohesion, peace, and harmony would so obviously flower.

Tell us the one about how the United States must abide by international law it didn't agree to. I really miss that schtick. It was always good for a hardy laugh.

AJ Lynch said...

FLS:

Epetein was asked for his "opinion" of Obama based on his working with Obama! Opinions don't require facts.

Let me give you a simple example:

Of all the major sports, I am not a fan of ice hockey. No facts are required because it is simply my opinion. Understand my point!

Shanna said...

Until his administration crashed and burned beyond all denying, even the staunchest hetero conservatives would have been happy to suck Bush's dick.

I think alot of liberals massively misunderstood the conservative position on President Bush. Projection again?

Seven Machos said...

You, AJ! A hockey hater!

Joe said...

I think alot of liberals massively misunderstood the conservative position on President Bush.

I agree. I live in Republican country, but know very few people who were enthusiastic about Bush. Most simply saw him as a much better alternative than Gore and Kerry. That was my position as well.

Another big difference is the almost complete lack of criticism of Obama from the media and downright fawning over him. No recent politician of any stripe has been treated this way (it was bad with JFK, but not this bad.)

David said...

The Epstein evaluation is pretty chilling.

Jeremy said...

Could Ann come up with a better set-up for the bunch here?

Why not "Oh, God...the world is coming to an end and it's all Obama's fault!!"

Feel better now?

Bruce Hayden said...

The reason that I find this somewhat humorous is that there are a lot of Obama backers and supporters who are going to wake up shortly wondering what hit them.

Right now, many are still in extreme denial. They were sold on President Obama being a moderate, and promising not to rock the boat, at least very hard. And, all of a sudden, we find that he, or at least those running our government right now, is/are liberal wacko socialists, rushing to implement every left wing wet dream of the last several decades. Meanwhile, they are borrowing and spending money like there is no tomorrow, in short order borrowing more than all previous Administrations combined.

And then there is the "no tax increases" pledge. We find that that is pure fiction. Cigarette taxes are going up more in one jump than in all previous tax increases - by an additional 50% (i.e. approx. a 150% tax increase). This tax affecting primarily those at the bottom of the income ladder (the more you make, the less likely you are to smoke). All to pay for SCHIPS medical coverage up to 30 year olds.

And then there is the "cap and trade" which will effectively significantly raise the price of anything that uses fossil fuels - which means pretty much everything in the economy. And, again, this tax will fall heaviest on those who can afford it the least.

I have seen little evidence that the Obama Administration has a clue as to how to run an economy (both Clinton and Bush (43) seemed to have adopted the adage when it came to the economy of first doing no harm). Rather, this Administration and the Democrats running Congress seem to be working backwards, figuring out what they want to spend money on, then justifying it as "stimulus". Of course, the economy isn't swayed by these spending rationalizations, only his disciples are.

Pretty soon, when the bill comes due for this feckless behavior, many of those who supported Obama in his election bid will agree with this cartoon.

Seven Machos said...

I think if I was going to change my name here, I would try to change my writing style.

TMink said...

MadisonMan asked: "How would this play differently if it were a bunch of Conservatives walking past a Bush poster?"

Not much at all. Fine point.

Trey

Seven Machos said...

Come on, Trey and Madison. You don't really believe that Bush was portrayed as some Hegelian world-historical figure. Bush barely beat Gore and Kerry. Nobody was ever in love with the guy.

rocketeer67 said...

I think if I was going to change my name here, I would try to change my writing style.

Well, yes. But you're intelligent.

former law student said...

Of all the major sports, I am not a fan of ice hockey. No facts are required because it is simply my opinion. Understand my point!

Yes, you moved the goalposts. The parallel question would be, "Given your familiarity with ice hockey, describe what you like and dislike about it."

As you see, the talk is billed as a colleague's using his professional experience with Obama to describe his talents and shortcomings.


THURSDAY, APRIL 02, 2009
Crisis & the Law with Richard Epstein: Chapter 4 of 5
Richard Epstein, who has dealt professionally with Barack Obama in the past, describes the talents and shortcomings of the 44th president.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Until his administration crashed and burned beyond all denying, even the staunchest hetero conservatives would have been happy to suck Bush's dick.

If that belief is what gets you up in the morning far be it from me to shatter your delusions. Carry on.

AJ Lynch said...

I did not move goal posts. One's experiences are used to form one's opinion right?

If you agree, what is your beef with Epstein's opinion? That his opinions and experiences with Obama contradicted your image of Obama?

Robert Cook said...

"Another big difference is the almost complete lack of criticism of Obama from the media and downright fawning over him. No recent politician of any stripe has been treated this way...."

You ignore the virtually free pass war criminal Bush got from the press throughout his disastrously mendacious and criminal presidency, with virtually no criticism from the MSM of him for his illegal wiretapping, his illegal invasion of Iraq, his torture practices, etc.

Bruce Hayden: Obama's problem is hardly that he is a "liberal wacko socialist." If only he were I might be hopeful for some improvements in our ruined society. His problem is that he is a member of the old boys club, just another establishment politician doing the bidding of the big banks and other corporate owners of our country. He is continuing policies carried over from the last administration.

former law student said...

what is your beef with Epstein's opinion?

As a thought experiment, describe your talents and shortcomings. Try to do it without referring to any specific examples.

Fen said...

Robert Cook: You ignore the virtually free pass war criminal Bush got from the press throughout his disastrously mendacious and criminal presidency,

Note all the false assertions unsupported by fact. Fen's Rule: the more adjectives a Lefty needs to use, the more bs he's spewing.

illegal wiretapping

Was not illegal. At worst, unsettled law.

his illegal invasion of Iraq

Was not illegal.

his torture practices,

Was not illegal. And even Obama is keeping that option available.

etc.

Yes, "etc" because you have squat.

You're a frikken idiot.

Smilin' Jack said...

The reason that I find this somewhat humorous is that there are a lot of Obama backers and supporters who are going to wake up shortly wondering what hit them.

Not at all. They supported Obama because he would be our first black president. (Does anyone seriously believe that a white man with his "qualifications" could have been nominated, much less elected?)

He is still black. He's not going to turn white. So there will be no grounds for disappointment.

Seven Machos said...

Oh man, did I miss Robert saying that the Iraq war is illegal?

That is such a bummer. Please, Robert, tell us more: under what law is the United States prohibited from using its military? Who has sovereignty over our government? Who will enforce such a law? Is a law with no enforcement mechanism a law at all?

We await the hilarity of your answers.

rocketeer67 said...

You ignore the virtually free pass war criminal Bush got from the press throughout his disastrously mendacious and criminal presidency, with virtually no criticism from the MSM of him for his illegal wiretapping, his illegal invasion of Iraq, his torture practices, etc.

All available evidence would seem to suggest that you don't understand the actual meaning of a single word in that entire abortion of a sentence, with the possible exception being "of." And I'm being charitable assuming that.

Fen said...

Robert Cook: You ignore the virtually free pass war criminal Bush got from the press throughout his disastrously mendacious and criminal presidency

I forgot to add that Cook's post is an almost verbatim cut-n-paste you'll find at huffpo and DU. Moonbat doesn't even have the intelligence to express himself in his own words.

AJ Lynch said...

I am far more experienced than your idol, The One. In my opinion, I have many many many more bold ideas than The One. That is the good news. The bad news is I don't have the power yet to implement my bold plans.

I can leap not-too-tall buildings in no more than two bounds and have a great sense of humor and am dying to test it out on a national audience with the aid of a teleprompter.

Fen said...

...likely pushed by JournaList/Townhouse. They think that repeating the same lies over and over again will distill into conventional "wisdom".

Minzo said...

"...[S]marter and smoother than Bush, more understanding of and interested in the policy issues he's overseeing, but still a paid puppet for the corporate owners of America."

...No...no...yes.

But do carry on with your self-delusion"

Wait...Bush is smarter than Obama? He had a funny way of showing it...

Robert Cook said...

"And even Obama is keeping that option (torture) available."

Doesn't make it any less illegal or repellent.

Seven Machos said...

Right, Minzo. He sure did. Like, just for example, Bush went about his work without bankrupting the country and creating the platform for crazy inflation.

That shit was hilarious.

Seven Machos said...

Come on, Robert. Tell us about the illegal war. Tell us about how laws without enforcement mechanisms are laws. Tell us how the United States gave up its sovereignty. Tell us about the evil corporations.

Minzo said...

Bankrupting the country? Bloody hell, Obama has been in office for only 3 frigging months! And you also might want to take a peek at the budget deficit good old Bush run up in office. He was hardly Mr Responsible.
*And yes Im ambivalent about Obama's plan but im in the wait-and-see camp*

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You ignore the virtually free pass war criminal Bush ....blah blah blah....torture...blah blah....wiretapping...babble babble..

No need to read anything further from this poster since Robert is spouting canned phrases from the handbook. Sorry. Can't be bothered to read posts from someone who doesn't have an original thought and who cannot follow a thread of discussion without jerking it back into their own little fantasy land.

I may disagree with many of the posters here who are writing from the left, but at least some have originality and a sense of humor.

Seven Machos said...

Bankrupting the country

Minzo said...

AJ Lynch- isnt the whole 'Obama isnt the messiah' thing getting a bit old? I think every rational person can tell the difference between Obama and the messiah (assuming he exists)I mean its easy to mock him with tags of 'The one' but how does that pass for actual debate?

MadisonMan said...

Robert, spare the world your hyperbole. But I will say that Judith what's-her-name from the NYTimes -- the one who was getting all the info from the Iranian who was supposedly all in-the-know about Iraq? (Am I remembering this right, probably not). I think that would be a fair point: There were some in the Press with Bush who were not only not critical, but were actually in bed with him (and I'm not talking Jeff Gannon!)

Seven Machos said...


Wait...Bush is smarter than Obama? He had a funny way of showing it...


This is apparently what passes for debate among some leftists.

Seven Machos said...

Madison -- There were some in bed with Bush? Fine. But Obama is having a huge orgy with the press, full of fluids and probably disease.

I know you see the difference. Your argument is equivalent to something like: why should I have to clean up my toxic waste dump when you never do your laundry?

Minzo said...

Seven machos- considering the pithy 'haha Obama isnt Jesus' type comment that is typical of threads here, its a bit rich to accuse me of dumbing down the conversation. You have at least provided a link for what you said earlier so Ill give credit where its due but dont delude yourself into thinking the right have the intellectual high ground. (Im not saying the left does either..)

Henry said...

Three conservatives are walking away from a cinema.

The woman conservative says "I love movies like that -- where slowly, gradually, bit by bit, all the characters realize that the war criminal Bush was really disastrously mendacious and criminal, with virtually no criticism from the MSM of him for his illegal wiretapping, his illegal invasion of Iraq, his torture practices, etc."

I dunno. Falls a little flat in my opinion.

former law student said...

(1) Tell us about the illegal war. (2)Tell us about how laws without enforcement mechanisms are laws. (3)Tell us how the United States gave up its sovereignty.

(1)Our invasion of Iraq was illegal because there was no UN Security Council authorisation, and no imminent humanitarian catastrophe, and no imminent threat of the use of force by Iraq.
(2) Laws are enforced by universal agreement, with the exception of peremptory norms, which no one is allowed to violate. These last are the crimes against humanity, which we helped punish following WW II.

International law can be summarized by "What goes around, comes around." Here, the country with most to lose from our precedent is Israel, because every justification used to invade Iraq applies also to Israel: It has unauthorized weapons of mass destruction, it has violated UN resolutions, it has harmed its own citizens.

(3) The US is one sovereign among many. It may be we can go it alone for the foreseeable future, but if other countries decide to gang up on us, we'll have no recourse.

garage mahal said...

We could just go with Republican Budget Bubbles too. I gotta fever and the only prescription is more bubbles!

MnMark said...

Until his administration crashed and burned beyond all denying, even the staunchest hetero conservatives would have been happy to suck Bush's dick.

Why is it that some large percentage of left-wingers can't make a point without using a vulgar sexual reference? Why do they think that is effective? It's so juvenile.

That aside, you have to be joking if you think that the conservative affection for Bush was on even the same order of magnitude as the liberal adoration of Obama. I was at a liberal friend's house recently and saw in his magazine rack a large-format, soft-cover book that was composed of nothing but pictures of front-page newspapers from around the world announcing Obama's election. An entire book devoted simply to newspaper headlines, all on the same topic: Obama was elected. Do you recall anything like that for Bush? I recall adoring magazine cover after magazine cover at the supermarket checkout line with hagiographic photos of Obama. I don't recall anything like that for Bush. Remember the video of black students marching and chanting Obama's name? I don't recall anything like that for Bush.

Seriously, you Obama supporters have to at least have the honesty to acknowledge that the fanfare over Obama's election dwarfed anything we've seen for another President in the last...well, ever. You can argue that the cartoon is premature or unfair or whatever, but you can't pretend that Bush was as adored as Obama was and expect to be taken seriously.

Seven Machos said...

Where in any United Nations document to which the United States subscribes does it say that wars not approved by the Security Council are illegal?

Otherwise, Former, since you freely admit that there is no court or executive that can enforce these laws (that you have invented from thin air), what you are telling us then is that there is no such thing as international law.

Synova said...

I don't think the comic would work with conservatives because the movie described sounds like the sort of downer "art" film only conscious liberals go to in order to prove their liberal creds.

I heard this bit of wisdom lately... "the quality of a film is the inverse of the number of exploding helicopters."

Because you know that everyone here; right, left and out in the boonies with Robert; can tell me the political leaning of the person who said those words.

The "funny" only works to the extent it works at all because our intellectual betters really *do* claim to enjoy movies "like that."

Seven Machos said...

I bought a copy of the newspaper the day after Bush's election in 2000. Like so many other Americans, I am saving it because I know now as I knew then that it will be a valuable collector's item.

I paid 50 cents for the paper. What do you bet it's worth now? (Pristine condition, under glass).

rocketeer67 said...

Bankrupting the country? Bloody hell, Obama has been in office for only 3 frigging months!

...and has managed to double Bush's deficits along with the money supply.

So you blame Bush for pointing the car towards the cliff and taking off, but you're "in the wait-and-see camp" about Obama stomping on the gas.

So that's the reasoning that leads one to the left. Got it.

AJ Lynch said...

Minzo:

When I use "The One", I am not mocking President Obama.

I am mocking some of his delusional supporters who comment here.

Minzo said...

Rocketeer- I dont see whats so illogical there. Im not saying I agree with Obama's economic policy-I disagree with a lot of it- but do you think passing judgement on an 8 year administration and passing judgement on a 3 month one are equally straightforward in this regard?

Synova said...

"...every justification used to invade Iraq applies also to Israel: It has unauthorized weapons of mass destruction, it has violated UN resolutions, it has harmed its own citizens.

Oh, yeah, fls, just exactly like Iraq. Israel is just like Iraq. Saddam had nothing on those Hebrews, eh? Genocide against marsh arabs, children's prisons in Kurdistan, mass graves with hundreds of people, women and children, actual past use of chemical weapons on its own citizens, multiple palaces built while children starved, and the ruler's sons running rape rooms.

JUST LIKE ISRAEL.

You... are a moron.

Seven Machos said...

Minzo -- Obama's going to be an epic, Carteresque failure. The fact that you are now arguing about timing a judgment shows how little you really believe in Obama as president.

rocketeer67 said...

Im not saying I agree with Obama's economic policy-I disagree with a lot of it- but do you think passing judgement on an 8 year administration and passing judgement on a 3 month one are equally straightforward in this regard?

Stupid is like like mass, not velocity - there is no time compenent.

Quayle said...

(1)Our invasion of Iraq was illegal because there was no UN Security Council authorization[sic], and no imminent humanitarian catastrophe, and no imminent threat of the use of force by Iraq.

To FLS, run of the mill dictators fall under the radar of humanitarian catastrophe. You need, I guess, really BIG catastrophes to qualify, and 10s of thousands of arrests and killings are just background noise.

Which begs the question to FLS: how many millions does a dictator have to kill until the situation offends your heightened and very exacting humanitarian sensibilities?

What’s the number, FLS?

rocketeer67 said...

You... are a moron.

And - and I never thought about this before, but it fits - quite possible a C4 sockpuppet.

Minzo said...

Seven Machos- surely if your candidate was in power and everyone was writing him off within 3 months, would you not argue for more time? Timing of the judgement is certainly relevant if its only 3 months into power. Im not a hard-core Obama supporter by any means- Im not even American- but I did think he was a credible candidate and I think he will be a good president. Should I be proven wrong, I will fully acknowledge my error. You could serve the humble pie on that day, just give me some strong alcohol to wash it down with!

Fen said...

(1)Our invasion of Iraq was illegal because there was no UN Security Council authorisation, and no imminent humanitarian catastrophe, and no imminent threat of the use of force by Iraq.

Wrong.

CJR 114
UNSCR 678
UNSCR 1441

Of course, "International Law" is a joke: "Beginning from the end of the Gulf War in 1991, the Iraqi government agreed to Security Council Resolution 687, which called for weapons inspectors to search locations in Iraq for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, as well as weapons that exceed an effective distance of 150 kilometres. [2] After the passing of resolution 687, thirteen additional resolutions (699, 707, 715, 949, 1051, 1060, 1115, 1134, 1137, 1154, 1194, 1205, 1284) were passed by the Security Council reaffirming the continuation of inspections, or citing Iraq's failure to comply fully with them.

14 resolutions in 12 years with no teeth. No teeth because the "law" was subverted by France, Russia and Germany, who voted with their wallet b/c they were in bed with Saddam.

Sorry, but international law is a farce. I refuse to be bound by it.

Fen said...

Bankrupting the country? Bloody hell, Obama has been in office for only 3 frigging months!

Yes. Exactly.

And lets not forget that Bush made several attempts to reign in Freddie and Fannie. But was stumped by theives like Chris Dodd, who was sleeping with all the AIG lobbyists. Lets also not forget that it was dem socialist policy that got us here to begin with - demanding that banks make risky home loans to inner city folk or be charged with racism and scrutinized by Congressional Dems.

Seven Machos said...

Im not even American

Well, there you go. Do you even live here? Who runs your country? I will decide whether you can judge that person or not.

Chip Ahoy said...

Fuck you and all your ignorant-ass threadbare adjectives.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

but do you think passing judgement on an 8 year administration and passing judgement on a 3 month one are equally straightforward in this regard?

I think that when you are "dating" someone it only takes a few dates to size up the character of the person. Most of us know how to recognize a bad date after a short period of time. We don't need to be married to the asshole for 4 to 8 years to figure it out.

Obama is a really really bad date.

former law student said...

Where in any United Nations document to which the United States subscribes does it say that wars not approved by the Security Council are illegal?

The UN Charter, Chapter VII, sets out the requirements and exceptions.

there is no such thing as international law.

International law is probably the oldest type of law still in force. Funny to watch libertarianism melt away -- laws exist even without an overarching authority.

Has no one here played Monopoly? The players make up their own rules by mutual agreement.

Oh, yeah, fls, just exactly like Iraq. Israel is just like Iraq.

That's not what I said. But for a country itching to invade, as we were, it won't be hard to fudge the justifications, as we did.

With all its faults, I like Israel. But we didn't do it any favors when we set out our justifications for invading Iraq.

Quayle, kindly note that we did not invade when the mass graves were being filled. What did we wait for?

Sorry, but international law is a farce. I refuse to be bound by it.

I refuse to live in a world that condones piracy, torture, slavery, and genocide. I'm a bit shocked that Fen supports all those things.

Richard Fagin said...

"How would this play differently if it were a bunch of Conservatives walking past a Bush poster?"


First, the father wouldn't have a ponytail behind his balding head, and his shirt wouldn't have anything on it, making him look much less an idiot.

The daughter would be carrying a copy of Forbes instead of Ms. Conservative women are too busy making money and being governors of states to have time for Gloria Steinem retreads.

Conservatives didn't really get creeped out until the $330 billion farm subsidy and Medicare prescription drug benfit were enacted. It took us a few months, not a few weeks.

Then again, Bush only pissed off his kook base over discretionary spending. Obama is pissing off his kook base over everything, except perhaps court nominees.

Fen said...

Sorry, but international law is a farce. I refuse to be bound by it.

fls: I refuse to live in a world that condones piracy, torture, slavery, and genocide.

Then why do you abide by an international law thats ONLY good for condemning such things, instead of eradicating them?

I'm a bit shocked that Fen supports all those things.

I support waterboarding. You do to. Not in public, not when its easy to take the high road without consequence. But when its your family, your city, your life at risk from some WMD nightmare, you'll be begging me to stop it by whatever means necessary. With a wink-nod that you'll "pardon" me later.

At least I'm honest and realistic about it.

Seven Machos said...

Former -- I know all about the United Nations, having worked there.

Please show us where it says wars are illegal. Please give us the text.

LonewackoDotCom said...

Actually, this is more like a horror movie where my October 2008 case against Obama is becoming our new reality, point by point, albeit gradually in some cases.

Althouse: Bush 2004, BHO 2008.

lawprof2 said...

To continue the dating analogy, I assume you all voted for someone otehr than Bush lite. After all, in his first 4 years he expanded government, increased national debt, supported federal government intrusion into homes of private citizens, carried out a family vendetta on an international scale, etc. etc. You would have known he was an imbecile disguised as a Republican within a couple weeks, right?

Give Obama a break for the love of God. He arguably inherited the worst economic crisis in our country's history, and he hasn't managed to fix it in three months. You all sound like the new Saturday Night Live character: "I don't really understand tehh financial problem, but FIX IT!!"

Seven Machos said...

expanded government, increased national debt, supported federal government intrusion into homes of private citizens, carried out a family vendetta on an international scale, etc. etc

The last thing on your list makes you look embarrassingly foolish. But tell us, oh lefty, which of the other things is Obama not doing?

Synova said...

- quite possible a C4 sockpuppet.

Not possible.

I can't imagine cedarford ever using a sock puppet for anything. It would be completely out of character.

former law student said...

I know all about the United Nations, having worked there.

Pro-war organization, is it? The things you learn here on Althouse!

Roost on the Moon said...

"You'll be begging me to stop it by whatever means necessary."

Creepy and gross.

Fen said...

Give Obama a break for the love of God. He arguably inherited the worst economic crisis in our country's history, and he hasn't managed to fix it in three months

Yes, he's made it even worse in a mere three months. Thats why he's under fire.

Fen said...

Roost: Creepy and gross.

Thats not what your wife and daughter said.

Fen said...

I can't imagine cedarford ever using a sock puppet for anything. It would be completely out of character

Agreed. Whatever his faults, C4 speaks bluntly and is not the kind to hide behind a sockpuppet.

Peter V. Bella said...

It's like the vote was some kind of mass cultural performance art, wherein we would forever cast off the egregious racial sins of our past.

It was mass cultural performance art. I heard those same conversations; “wouldn’t it be great to make history.”

I asked at what cost? I mean the guy ahd no resume, no experience, and no proven competence- just like Hillary. The response was the same- we hate Bush or something to that effect and making history is more important. We need to heal the world blah, blah, blah. The best one I heard was if we elect Obama we have finally ended slavery.

Now I know why they call them sheeple.

lawprof2 said...

Seven Machos-

I call it like I see it. You can't argue (with a straight face) that we were pursuing anyone remotely related to 9-11 in Iraq (despite numerous attempts by the Bushies to link it). Then you're left with the "intervene to prevent slaughter" argument (which loses steam when comparing, say Rwanda) or the "gotta get rid of the dictator" incentive (how did Iraq jump to the top of that list?). Please. You look foolish trying to justify the incursion.

Obama has to deal with what the failed policies of Bush et. al have wrought. It is not pretty, nor are the answers easy. It is virtually impossible to address the many ills by one cohesive policy that will gain favor of people from all political persuasions.

No one, not even you, SM, could make significant progress to turn this thing around in 3 months. Of course, if you're holding out on us, please do share your brilliance.

TMink said...

Seven wrote: "You don't really believe that Bush was portrayed as some Hegelian world-historical figure."

Well, certainly not in those terms! But I was one of the people who thought that Bush would show his true conservative colors in the second administration. So I was duped. But I completely agree that nobody, well nobody that I have heard of, ever saw President Bush as the great Conservative hope, so you are right, and I am guilty of a little exaggeration.

But what a putz I was thinking that President Bush was anything other than the big government moderate that he was! Maybe, make it certainly, I am a little raw on the subject.

But, fool me twice, shame on me.

Trey

TMink said...

"war criminal Bush"

Three little words, so important. To me they mean, no need to read anything further by this good'un.

Trey

Minzo said...

Seven machos- I was unaware that I cannot comment on American politics unless Im American or live there. My bad!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

He arguably inherited the worst economic crisis in our country's history, and he hasn't managed to fix it in three months.

You're right is IS arguable. However, I'm not going to bother because it is a waste of time and the sheeple have been brainwashed by the media into thinking that the worst economic crisis means that they can't buy a new flat screen television. It is also a waste of time to argue with people who have no concept of economics or history.

If you want to argue about whether this is the worst economic crisis, I suggest you talk to a the few people still alive who were young adults during the Great Depression or maybe some current Zimbabwians.

As to your second point. I don't think the conservatives who are posting here (please try to understand conservative does not always equal republican) expect Obama or anyone else for that matter to waive a magic wand and make everything sunshine and roses. Those would be the people with stars in their eyes who voted for him because he was going to make it so they wouldn't have to pay rent, the oceans would recede and Marna would fall from heaven. Idiots.

What we conservatives expected or rather hoped; would be that Obama would TRY to fix the problem instead of purposely making things worse by cramming his socialist agenda down our throats. Instead of taking a moderate, steady and well thought out course of action, he is racing us all pell mell over the cliff with the special funding of pet projects that are useless in stimulating the economy and that will inflate the defict to even further heights. He is ramrodding expensive social engineering projects that will adversely affect the economy and more importantly adversely affect the quality of life of the entire Nation. The first Obama Youth or adult Obama Brown Shirt that comes to my door will be in for a rude awakening.

I'm not going to give the guy a break. I recognize a psychotic, narcissistic, self indulgent, rapist when I see one. Not only is he screwing us now, he is screwing future generations. No calls, no flowers, no kisses.....NO THANK YOU!

Synova said...

Me: Oh, yeah, fls, just exactly like Iraq. Israel is just like Iraq.

fls: That's not what I said. But for a country itching to invade, as we were, it won't be hard to fudge the justifications, as we did.


They weren't fudged, much. That we attempted to make happy with the UN and others, to get support, doesn't change that we were entirely justified to invade Iraq without any approval from anyone.

Attempting to get that international support MAY have been a mistake. I don't necessarily disagree that it wasn't the best thing we could have done at the time and that it could impact future events.

With all its faults, I like Israel. But we didn't do it any favors when we set out our justifications for invading Iraq.

Is this a matter of "fairness" as the trump-all of liberal morality? (referring to the five moralities and how conservatives and liberals seem to weigh them differently) This idea that if we have a gun all of our enemies should be allowed a gun, that if we invade we must agree that we would not resist invasion, that if we have nukes that it's only *fair* if Iran has nukes... it doesn't work that way between nations. Because someone else can use our invasion of Iraq on the grounds that Saddam was a cancer, a horror, and a force of evil that needed killing, to say that Israel is just like Iraq (even if you didn't say it, that's the argument you feel now becomes legit) doesn't mean anything but that, yet again, Israel is being held to standards completely different from anyone else (except maybe us.)

And that would be the case no matter what anyone did.

Minzo said...

rapist???

TMink said...

FLS wrote: "International law is probably the oldest type of law still in force."

Read your Blackstone about natural law please.

Trey

garage mahal said...

Obama Youth? LOL.

Seven Machos said...

Minzo -- If you don't live here, and aren't American, it's unlikely that you understand very much about the facts on the ground or the cultural rhythms of this country.

Stick to your own national politics. Otherwise, you risk looking foolish.

Minzo said...

Seven Machos- This might suprise you. but people who live outside America do read about the rest of the world including your country. I might not be on the ground, but I know enough-and read enough- to know whats going on there.

Seven Machos said...

"Lawprof" -- I have argued here for years that Iraq is perfectly situated as the beachhead for the war we are fighting. Look at a map. Look at the countries Iraq is next to. Now look at the countries Afghanistan is next to.

This is where we want our military. If only we could find a way to wedge North Korea somewhere in there, it would be utterly perfect.

Anyone who fails to see how inserting our military into Iraq has helped the United States prevent terrorist attacks and keep enemy regimes in line does not understand how power actually works.

Seven Machos said...

Minzo -- No. You don't.

Minzo said...

To bad one of the most dangerous countries in that region is one of America's best allies.: Saudi Arabia-http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2801017.ece

Peter V. Bella said...

Do they still not see their man as he is: a sadistic bully, incompetent, and utter failure? And talk about a creep and a fake! Bush is king of the creeps and fakes.

You do not watch the news much, especially as it relates to Obama do you?

You ignore the virtually free pass war criminal Bush got from the press throughout his disastrously mendacious and criminal presidency, with virtually no criticism from the MSM of him for his illegal wiretapping, his illegal invasion of Iraq, his torture practices, etc.

You sir are a charlatan, a liar and a fraud. Bush was criticized and demonized in the media, the MSM, from the day he took office until the day he left office.

More regurgitated talking points from the children of the left. Not one original, intelligent, criticism. Just blah, blah, bah. Keep taking the hopium. Then you will get the change.

Minzo said...

Sevenmachos- Id rather not be gagged. Feel free to ignore what I have to say, but I will say it anyway. If I 'risk looking foolish' then thats just a risk Ill have to take.

Synova said...

Fen: Sorry, but international law is a farce. I refuse to be bound by it.

fls: I refuse to live in a world that condones piracy, torture, slavery, and genocide. I'm a bit shocked that Fen supports all those things.

And yet... we live in a world that condones piracy, torture, slavery, and genocide.

No amount of gestures, of proclamations, of stuffy suits in stuffy chambers acting all righteous over their outrage changes the fact that those things are condoned by actions, or by inactions.

Lofty, empty, words.

Seven Machos said...

And then Minzo the foreign American specialist gave an erroneous link to a foreign newspaper alleging to demonstrate that Saudi Arabia is some great friend of the United States.

First of all, countries don't have allies, only alliances (though it's probably safe to say that Britain and Australia will always be tremendous friends).

Secondly, I love, love, love the Saudi Arabian canard. It's a hardy perennial among leftists. Dude, Saudi Arabia is our "ally" in exactly the same way that China is our "ally." They have commodities we want and we have commodities they want. That's it. If Saudi Arabia had no oil, we wouldn't give a single solitary shit about the place.

China is more complex.

Please up your game, Minzo.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The House passed the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act yesterday. The bill includes language indicating young people will be forced to participate in mandatory national service programs. The bill also states that "service learning" will be a mandatory part of the youth curriculum.
That doesn't sound much like "volunteerism" does it?


Nope, sounds like re education camps to me.

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," he said Wednesday. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

My aunt was a child in WWII Germany a forced member of the Hitler Youth, her father was a Brown Shirt for Hitler and he disappeared shortly before the war's end, never to be seen or heard from again, leaving my aunt and her mother completely alone. Her older brother had already been killed on the Russian front...they think.

She literally freaked out and began crying when she heard Obama's plans and saw his speeches on televison.

Also if you want to discuss economic hardships...How about this one. They had one bycycle after the war and when she and her mother went shopping they would tie my aunt to the bike so no one would steal it. Sort of a child alarm system. No one would want a child, just another mouth to feed, but the bike....now that was valuable. Talk to my client who ate cats in Germany after the war because there was no other meat than horsemeat that you had to wait in line all day to get 1 or 2 pounds once a month.

Perspective. It's all funny to you on the left....now. How funny is it going to be when it is your child forced to go to camp. When it is YOU forced to attend community action training camp?

Ofc. Krupke said...

Here, the country with most to lose from our precedent is Israel, because every justification used to invade Iraq applies also to Israel

I know that there are a lot of countries that would like to invade Israel (again). There are a few reasons they do not.

However, this is the first time I've heard it suggested that fealty to international law was the foremost of those reasons. Novel theory.

Minzo said...

Sevenmachos- of course you and Saudi Arabia are allies (and I maintain thats the correct word) because they have something you want. I never suggested you have some kind of ideological connection or anything like that. That doesnt change my point at all though.

Synova said...

Obama Youth? LOL.

I saw something today about canvassers going door to door asking people to sign pledges to support Obama.

It's creepy. Not getting petitions signed for any specific thing, but to support Obama. You get a pledge card and everything.

This is creepy, and not at all a far jump to "Obama Youth."

Seven Machos said...

North Korea has something we want. Iran has something we want. Are those countries our allies?

Peter V. Bella said...

The bill also states that "service learning" will be a mandatory part of the youth curriculum.
That doesn't sound much like "volunteerism" does it?

Nope, sounds like re education camps to me.


It is a dusting off of the Hiter Youth. It is an attempt to enshrine Obama into the mindset of the young. It is the creation of a cult.

This is actually a no brainer. Just refuse to let your child participate in the classes. What are they going to do? Send you to labor camps?

Oh, Obama is dusting off the FDR labor camp proposals eh?

Seven Machos said...

Moreover, Minzo, unless your country runs on something other than oil, which of course it does not, then your country is equally an ally of Saudi Arabia.

campy said...

How funny is it going to be when it is your child forced to go to camp. When it is YOU forced to attend community action training camp?

Forced? The moonbats will be begging to go.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I might not be on the ground, but I know enough-and read enough- to know whats going on there.

Minzo, with all due respect, you only hear what the urban left controlled media wants to release. Our news papers and television stations are filtering the news and only presenting in a positive light things that they are in favor of and distorting the coverage to be negative on things that don't mesh with their agenda. You may get a clearer picture by also including blogs, news feeds and web sites from more than just the left leaning main stream media.

In many countries it is difficult to understand just how big and diverse, geographically, politically and economically, the United States really is. It is also difficult for people in our own urban centers, like New York, Chicago etc, to understand this same thing. It would be like us in the US making the mistake of thinking that all of Africa is the same and that all people in the continent are culturally the same, when we know that it is also hugely diverse.

I would never presume to make generalizations about how people in Africa or India or China think, because I know I haven't got enough information....and you just can't generalize anyway.

Minzo said...

I think you know full well what I mean- my point is not that every country that has something you want is your ally. Saudi Arabia being your ally-or whatever else you want to call it- is a factual issue so I dont see why we need to drag North Korea into it as they clearly are not.

Minzo said...

Dust Bunny Queen- I do make it a point to read across the spectrum. I read everything from Malkin to Sullivan. I would consider myself a 'leftie' but I try not to stick to blogs or media that simply reinforce my views. Evidently just relying on the MSM isnt the best way to have a complete picture about any country.

Ofc. Krupke said...

Evidently just relying on the MSM isnt the best way to have a complete picture about any country.

That's putting it mildly. :)

On the issue of Saudi Arabia, what often gets simplified away is the fact that we and the Saudis have a common enemy in Bin Ladenism. The Saudi rulers are even higher on his hit list than we are.

Bruce Hayden said...

Give Obama a break for the love of God. He arguably inherited the worst economic crisis in our country's history, and he hasn't managed to fix it in three months. You all sound like the new Saturday Night Live character: "I don't really understand tehh financial problem, but FIX IT!!"

The problem is not that he hasn't fixed it in three months, but rather, that everything he has done is highly likely to make it worse.

He and his people are the ones who are supposed to understand the economy, and until they do, they should have followed the adage: first, do no harm.

But, it was too tempting. As I believe Emanuel said, don't let a crisis go to waste. And Obama didn't, throwing in every liberal wish list of the last couple of decades as "stimulus". It is going to be interesting, if not hysterical, to find out how he ties his cap and trade system with being an economic stimulus. He can't even call this an "investment" as he does most of his other liberal wish list spending items.

TMink said...

So Minzo, where do you live? I bet I have some opinions on your country that you would love to hear.

Trey

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

Seven, you get points for untangling my syntax.

Here's what I think re: The Press. I think there are press people out there who want to win a Pulitzer, and to do that they have to figure out the right angle of the story. It would be hard to write a series of articles that is critical of the 1st black President and successfully get such an article past the screening committee. I have no evidence to support this, it's just a gut feeling. So that is one thing driving "good" reporters with some ambition. The same thing was true of the Bush era -- what should an ambitious Reporter write about to get the attention of the nominating committee -- except at the beginning of GWB's terms, the bend of the nominating committee wasn't very well known, so critical and non-critical articles were equally likely to be written. As the war dragged on, critical articles (that is, articles critical of the President, not necessarily of the war effort) would be more likely to get past the nominating committee.

Also, all press people are lazy -- if someone else is working on a story, they will work on it too, so as not to get scooped. Of course, this guarantees that no one is covering the truly interesting and important things.

There is also the ongoing effort by the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration -- Hell, any administration -- to limit access to reporters that are likely to write favorable things. That's why the DC Press Folks are such wimps -- they are terrified of having doors shut in their faces, so they kowtow to those in power.

Of course, I have no evidence for this other than my own big heaping helping of cynicism!

garage mahal said...

Minzo, with all due respect, you only hear what the urban left controlled media wants to release

What's funny is that's not even close to being true - quite the opposite - as has been for decades, yet conservatives are still getting their ass kicked at almost every turn. It's not the media. It's your ideas. People saw them in action and they hate them. It's not a marketing deficiency. To compound the problem conservatives are getting outworked and out-organized. While you're wallowing in Glenn Beck conspiracy theories of facism, socialism, or Obama Youth brigades, liberals are pounding the phones and raising millions of dollars for their candidates. I can't remember the last time I heard a conservative say "hey this guy looks like he has good ideas, let's get him elected".

AllenS said...

Trey--

I'm guessing Country of Origin.

Revenant said...

He arguably inherited the worst economic crisis in our country's history

It might be arguable that he inherited a crisis, but it can't credibly be argued that this is the worst economic crisis in our country's history.

Revenant said...

I disagree with a lot of it- but do you think passing judgement on an 8 year administration and passing judgement on a 3 month one are equally straightforward in this regard?

You and your wife like to go out for dinner and a movie once a month. You hire a babysitter for that little four-hour night out.

Four months into this you're really unhappy with your babysitter. She doesn't act responsibly, she doesn't devote enough attention to the kids. But you can't find a good replacement. Four more months pass before you find a promising replacement babysitter.

One hour into your first night out since you replaced the old sitter, your kid calls to tell your that the new babysitter is on the family room couch having sex with her boyfriend and snorting coke off the coffee table.

"But honey", your wife says, "we had the old babysitter over eight times. Isn't it too early to pass judgment on this one an hour into our first night out?"

Tom Armstrong said...

Joe said: "Most simply saw him as a much better alternative than Gore and Kerry. "

Minor correction. This conservative saw him as a "less bad" alternative to Gore and Kerry.

gaywrites said...

In response to Revenant, I'll give you my spin on your little tale.

You and your wife like to go out for dinner and a movie once a month. You hire a babysitter for that little four-hour night out.

Four months into this you're really unhappy with your babysitter. When your child was bullied by the neighbor boy, your babysitter couldn't find the neighbor boy so she decided to beat up the neighbor boy's brother. Additionally, she can't control the child and has essentially screwed up every important decision a babysitter would need to make. But you can't find a good enough replacement. Four more months pass before you find a promising replacement babysitter.

One hour into your first night out since you replaced the old sitter, your kid calls to tell you that the new babysitter has decided to look for the original bully of the child because the child has warned that there is still a significant chance he'll get bullied again, even though the bully's brother was killed by the original babysitter. Additionally, the new babysitter is trying to get a handle on maintaining the home that the incompetent babysitter couldn't. The child is mildly concerned that the new tactics the babysitter has implemented won't work, but he said he's about 65% happy about the way the babysitter is doing her job.

"Honey", your wife says, "we had the old babysitter over eight times. And we've had this babysitter an hour. I could be wrong, but maybe we won't end up being such terrible parents after all."

kyleb said...

Bush never had anything like the cult of personality effect of Obama. Bush was also a governor of a huge state so we knew roughly what to expect. Add to that Bush was highly scrutinized by the media while Obama was the most protected politician in history. NOBODY knew what to really expect form The One. There were just "right wing crazies" saying he's a radical...who ended up being right.

Peter V. Bella said...

He arguably inherited the worst economic crisis in our country's history…

Says who? I guess you, the media, and the lefty socialist screechers have never, ever, read history. The Great Depression was the worst financial crisis, preceded by the stock market and credit crash in the early 1900s. The latter did not last long. The former lasted until WWII. We do not have masses of people wandering the streets looking for any kind of work.

This crisis was created by government and the toxic mortgages that Clinton and his Politburo forced the banks to make only hastened the problem. Now the same government and people who caused it are trying to fix it. Good fucking luck. I will tell you this, they are gong to make it worse and then we will have the greatest financial disaster in history.

BTW, that Obama has only been in office X amount of days mantra is wearing pretty thin.

mathernoble said...

The video linked at the beginning is interesting for a few reasons. First: the awesome Disembodied Head, Hands, Shirt and Cuffs effect. Cool! Second: the man has had fairly minimal contact with Obama, for a co-worker; not none, but sure not a lot. Third: he repeatedly mentions a few qualities that Obama possesses in great amount, which seem to me to be standard and important tools for a high-level politician. Fourth, he directly implies that Obama is "qualified to be President." [Note the host's nervous laughter at this.]

But I knew these things already, so it was mostly uninteresting to watch, really.

(P.S. - Congratulations on the engagement!)

mathernoble said...

I should have concluded with "I either knew these things, or don't care about them, so..."

ricpic said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Obama is a really really bad date.

Well, yes: from the standpoint of DBQ or myself, who see Obama as both absolutely wrong on the issues and absolutely arrogant, he is indeed a really really bad date.

But from the standpoint of a liberal true believer Obama's arrogance must make him a dream date: no half-measures under Obama. Or rather no stopping until "social justice" is imposed on all our heads. Half-measures, feints, even strategic retreats at times; but a relentless war on "inequality" until no vestige of "oppression" remains: that's what Obama brings to his date with a true believer: positively orgasmic.

Synova said...

your kid calls to tell you that the new babysitter has decided to look for the original bully of the child because the child has warned that there is still a significant chance he'll get bullied again,

Hahaha... oh, that's good.

Are you actually suggesting that "going after" a bully unseen for eight months is rational?

Or that Obama is actually doing anything that could be an analogy for? Attacking Pakistan without Congressional (or UN!!!) approval?

But I always knew that for those obsessed with Bin Laden it was a matter of vengeance instead of State. And since there is more hard proof for the resurrection of Christ than for a living and breathing Bin Laden, "going after the bully" rather than his brothers is a fantasy.

Synova said...

In any case... I sure do miss Bin Laden.

It was always a hoot to watch him repeat lines from Michael Moore's movies or Code Pink talking points as if they were serious logical arguments.

kcom said...

"This might suprise you. but people who live outside America do read about the rest of the world including your country. I might not be on the ground, but I know enough-and read enough- to know whats going on there."

Minzo, I can't say whether you really know what's going on here or not because I don't know exactly what you read and how open-minded you are. From your self-description (reading Malkin, etc.), you might be better than most. But I will say that if you're depending to any great extent on the European press for your information then you probably don't know what's going on. Sure, they write about America. Quite a lot, in fact. But much of what they write is so ridiculously and laughably inaccurate that it's a wonder it's not in the fiction section. Lazy stereotyping and far left propaganda masquerading as news are far too common. Anyone reading a steady diet of that drivel would almost have to be excused for thinking they were well-informed on the complexities of American life because, as much as some of us complain about media bias here, it's nothing compared to the airtight echo chamber occupied by much of the European media.

Of course, some of our American born and bred commenters here aren't too impressive in being well-informed on their own political scene. They dislike conservatives, which is their perogative, but then make the mistake of trying to characterize conservatives' views without bothering to read or understand any of the right-side media. Only in this way could they be so uninformed as to make some of the comments above about conservatives worshipping Bush and refraining from criticizing him. Some conservatives liked him more than others but there wasn't a lack of criticism and there certainly wasn't the untempered hero worship that has attended Barack Obama. Remember, it was one of Barack Obama's supporters who anointed him "The One", not some conservative cynic. You'd be hard pressed to find any conservative speaking of Bush in those terms before or immediately after he was elected. Then again, we don't think the purpose of politics is to save our souls. And that probably explains the difference.

Seven Machos said...

Synova -- I read an interesting article the other day in a conservative publication by -- I believe -- a professor from Boston. It suggested that (1) Bin Laden was never a very serious threat to the United States, (2) that his bogeyman was and is used by states in different ways to further their ambitions, and (3) suggesting that it's pretty odd that all these fake-looking Bin Laden tapes keep falling into American hands, saying things that keep helping the United States.

It was compelling.

Revenant said...

Four months into this you're really unhappy with your babysitter. When your child was bullied by the neighbor boy, your babysitter couldn't find the neighbor boy so she decided to beat up the neighbor boy's brother.

I confess that my limited tolerance for inanity caused me to stop reading at this point.

You managed to completely miss my point. I wasn't drawing a parallel between the Bush and Obama administrations, as you seem obsessed with doing. I was simply illustrating how silly it is to think that you have to wait a long time to appraise the quality of a person's work simply because their predecessor held the position for a long time.

It doesn't matter if Bush did a good job or not. He could have done a wonderful job, or he could have -- as the Left insisted starting January of 2001 -- done a horrible job. The point is that it is easy to see that Obama, the current President, is doing a horrible job, right now.

OldGrouchy said...

Hello, fellow citizens of the world, I come in peace! Or, stop this world, I want my old one back! Or, is it December 12, 2012, yet?

And, my answer is: All of the above!

Seven Machos said...

I remember back in the summer of 2001, Rev. It was shark attacks, Chandry Levy, and all the leftists singing Kumbayah and saying, "Let's give Bush a chance."

I don't think that not my president stuff started until 2006 or so.

Right? You leftists were all about harmony and chance-giving, right? Right?

Hello?

Anybody?

Peter V. Bella said...

Hope and Change.

How many days until January 20, 2013?

Revenant said...

This might suprise you. but people who live outside America do read about the rest of the world including your country. I might not be on the ground, but I know enough-and read enough- to know whats going on there.

The funny thing about that comment is that the second sentence disproves the third. It is a popular European stereotype of Americans that we are ignorant of other countries, but study after study finds that people in other countries are similarly ignorant.

The key difference is that foreigners are inundated with American pop culture and therefore THINK they know a lot about America. But American life is nothing like an American TV show. You're like one of those Japanese animation fans who thinks he's an expert on Japan just because he's seen every Hayao Miyazaki film ever made.

Seven Machos said...

When I worked abroad, one of my favorite things to do was to ask Europeans who disdained American stupidity the American state capitals. After all, if the European Union is really a federation, then Stockholm isn't too awfully different from Montpelier.

Also, how long is the drive from Reno to Las Vegas?

Another good stumper: My country has free speech. Does yours?

Fen said...

You can't argue (with a straight face) that we were pursuing anyone remotely related to 9-11 in Iraq

Sure I can. The liberation of Iraq is the only long range plan for reforming radical Islam. Setting a beacon, like West Berlin was to the warsaw pact, that will cascade across the region. Give the suicide bomber something to live for, prop up his civilization or he will destroy ours.

...or we can discuss how Saddam outsourced his nuclear research to Libya, and what we found there.

But I'll bet your sophisticated intellect would prefer to parrot "but Iraq was never a threat to us!"...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Also, how long is the drive from Reno to Las Vegas?

Usually about 7 hours, but ...I dunno?

How fast are we going to drive? Maybe 6 hrs if we average 80 or 85. Not much of a problem because the roads are pretty flat and not many cops. I hope you have a nice car. Do you have satellite radio? The stations will fade out if we are relying on AM/FM and I do get tired of Country and Western. Should I bring some CD's. I like rock and roll, blues and jazz. Are we going to stop and eat? Or grab and go? Can we drink and gamble on the way? Then it might be a bit longer unless we just drink and drive. That's ok too. Hope isn't deer season we don't want to hit a deer or antelope with your nice car when they are moving across the highway. We might want to watch out for thunderstorms and flash flooding depending on the time of year. I got flooded out going to Vegas from LA one year and had to wait on the road for at least an hour or two. But that was OK too. Lots of really fun people hanging out on the side of the road.


ROAD TRIP!!!
:-)

pst314 said...

"Lifelong civil rights and peace activist Pete Seeger still represents the Red Menace."

Well, er, ah, maybe because he is a commie? Because only a few years ago he said "I'm still a communist"? Because he joined the Communist Party in the 1940's? Because he propagandized for Stalin? Because although he claimed to renounce and regret his Stalinism, he continued to support Stalinists elsewhere in the world?

Revenant said...

You can't argue [...] that we were pursuing anyone remotely related to 9-11 in Iraq

When a smart person develops cancer he does two things: gets treatment for the cancer he has, and takes steps to limit the probability of new tumors developing in the future.

Al Qaeda is the cancer we have. But so long as the metaphorical asbestos of the oppressive and undemocratic Muslim world continues in its present state, new cancers are inevitable. In the long run a free West cannot coexist with the present Muslim world. Either we change (unacceptable), we get eliminated (unacceptable), they get eliminated (undesirable), or they change. The last option is the preferred one.

mathernoble said...

kcom wrote: "Remember, it was one of Barack Obama's supporters who anointed him "The One", not some conservative cynic. You'd be hard pressed to find any conservative speaking of Bush in those terms before or immediately after he was elected."

Was it Oprah that said dubbed him that? Michelle? Yeah, it's a little creepy, in the big picture, if you already don't like the guy. I see that. They were talking in lofty terms, but if I recall, they were talking about what they saw as his real qualities and the need for a change in leadership and attitude and imagery. Concrete-ish things.

More to your point... WTF????? You really don't recall the Evangelicals talking about Bush in much, much more concretely unreal, lofty, uh, plainly Biblical terms???? (This paragraph could go on ad nauseum.) I think you recall. You just ignore. But you also site reading Malkin as a sign of being grounded. Heh.

S. Machos wrote: "I remember back in the summer of 2001, Rev. It was shark attacks, Chandry Levy, and all the leftists singing Kumbayah and saying, 'Let's give Bush a chance.' I don't think that not my president stuff started until 2006 or so. Right? You leftists were all about harmony and chance-giving, right? Right? Hello? Anybody?"

How to respond? Hmmm...

Bush v. Gore.

Remember? Whatever you think of that decision, and the reaction, the comparison you made is inane. Obama's election was widely perceived as an historic, happy moment in modern human history, although many here don't put but minimal lasting value on that. Fine, be that way. But to compare his entry to the office to Bush's is just... weird.

So many reactions to Obama seem to be some blatant projection/reversal thing. ("You think Bush was dumb? Obama can't even speak!")

I'm not happy about the bailouts. I worry about the final analysis. But the whole tired conservative movement... it's just plainly semi-psychotic. I feel sorry for you.

Fen said...

Uhm, can anyone explain why our POTUS is bowing to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabi?

Obamamatuer?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2009/04/obamabowing.php

Revenant said...

Well, er, ah, maybe because he is a commie?

Plus, it is a bit Orwellian to call a lifelong member of the Stalin/Mao fanclub "a peace activist". That's like calling Jenna Jameson a chastity activist.

Henry said...

One hour into your first night out since you replaced the old sitter, your kid calls to tell you that the new babysitter ...

has located your credit cards, cadged your identy, and just bought San Bernadino County.

MadisonMan said...

You people have bad luck hiring baby sitters, that's for sure. My daughter babysits, and everyone loves her.

She's looking for work too.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You can't argue [...] that we were pursuing anyone remotely related to 9-11 in Iraq

"When a smart person develops cancer he does two things: gets treatment for the cancer he has, and takes steps to limit the probability of new tumors developing in the future."

When irrational people face the same situations, instead of fighting the disease, they take the easy way out and commit suicide.

I'm not interested in a suicide pact.

Seven Machos said...

More to your point... WTF????? You really don't recall the Evangelicals talking about Bush in much, much more concretely unreal, lofty, uh, plainly Biblical terms????

Please establish something -- anything -- to back up this assertion. Even some nutjob from Plano.

As for your assertion about Bush v. Gore, you are now arguing that you must patiently support your opponents when they win by -- what? -- four points? Five points? I know you are making shit up as you go along, so why not just give me a number?

Synova said...

(1) Bin Laden was never a very serious threat to the United States,

I think his leadership position leading up to 9-11 was real enough, and significant enough. That influence ended almost as soon as he went into hiding. Yet somehow, even removed from influence, we were supposed to put the entire might of our nation on one task and one task only. Searching for an impotent man in the caves of Pakistan.

(2) that his bogeyman was and is used by states in different ways to further their ambitions, and

Cause and effect issue there... that he was used doesn't even suggest that he was created. (But still sounds good.) Or else we can say he was created by the anti-war liberals to use as a "what about Bin Laden" club.

(3) suggesting that it's pretty odd that all these fake-looking Bin Laden tapes keep falling into American hands, saying things that keep helping the United States.

The man is dead and rotted. The fake-looking tapes weren't anywhere near as creative as the ones that appear to be real, the ones where clever monitoring of our domestic politics gave him all the right phrases to use.

This is definitely a case of... if it were really fake, they wouldn't have been nearly so dumb.

Revenant said...

Please establish something -- anything -- to back up this assertion.

Yeah, I'd be curious to see some examples of evangelicals speaking of Bush in "plainly Biblical terms". Especially something that compares to lines like "Jesus was a community organizer too". :)

Synova said...

"When a smart person develops cancer he does two things: gets treatment for the cancer he has, and takes steps to limit the probability of new tumors developing in the future."

Yes.

Oligonicella said...

Dust Bunny Queen --

"Usually about 7 hours, but ...I dunno?"

Had a friend from Switzerland come to the states to D.C. I live in So. Mo. He said, "Hey, let's get together!" I said, "Fine, we'll meet half way. That should only be ten hours drive each."

Crickets.

They do not understand on a gut level the size and complexity of this country, where most of our states are the size of most of their countries.

mccullough said...

Neither W. or Obama are as bad as their critics make them out to be.

But they are both fiscally irresponsible. It's one thing for Obama to create large short-term deficits to try and stimulate the economy. But Obama's 10-year budget is fiscally irresponsible, no matter how good his intentions are with regard to health care and education.

Most of his projected deficits have nothing to do with the economic problems he inherited. Obama has used the economic crisis as a pre-text to pass his health care and energy plans, plans that he does not even try to pay for.

I would happily swap H.W. Bush or Clinton for Obama.

Seven Machos said...

Wasn't it the nutty evangelists who were calling Bush a lightworker in 2001?

Darcy said...

Did AJ say he wasn't a hockey fan?
What?

AJ Lynch said...

Correct, I like hockey the least of the 4 major sports. It's not even an American game is it? Heh.

Darcy -FYI I was making a fruitless effort to educimate the likeable but dogmatic FLS. I should not have wasted my breath.

OldGrouchy said...

Fen: Yeah,that "bowing" pix is weird. However, notice that the others (Including King Adu.) in the photo are all looking down as though they're looking at a child or a smaller person. Context would be nice for photos like that.

However, why isn't Pete Seeger down in Gitmo or else sent over to Moscow; those were the days, eh!

mathernoble said...

Please establish something -- anything -- to back up this assertion. Even some nutjob from Plano.

Maybe my memory of 1999-2000 is faulty. Or maybe this stuff, from a few years later, didn't come out of nowhere.

As for your assertion about Bush v. Gore, you are now arguing that you must patiently support your opponents when they win by -- what? -- four points? Five points? I know you are making shit up as you go along, so why not just give me a number?

I would never ask an Althouse fanboy, especially during this Year Of Heartbreak, to be patient about politics. No specific victory margin need be named, though, because nothing will stop people from spouting off. Which is fine. What's a little bit less fine is comparing Bush's officetaking to Obama's, while ignoring the biggest difference.

Seven Machos said...

That's creepy, but how is blessing the president worshiping the president. The pope blesses shit everywhere he goes. Does he worship it? I was telling Rev in a thread below that he doesn't understand religion. I stand corrected. You cannot fathom even the vocabulary.

As far as the rest of your post, it makes no sense whatsoever. I sense that you are trying to be clever. But because your tender mind is obviously not very agile, you come off as dense. Like a teenager spouting indie song lyrics.

jayne_cobb said...

"What's a little bit less fine is comparing Bush's officetaking to Obama's, while ignoring the biggest difference."


That Bush had far less prep time due to the whole Florida kerfuffle, but still managed to not have appointees dropping out left and right?

Darcy said...

I know AJ, but still. :)

Bruce Hayden said...

Also, how long is the drive from Reno to Las Vegas?

Thank goodness I haven't had to drive it yet. I take Southwest, there are a lot of flights a day, its fairly cheap, and you are in the air for less than an hour.

But an older lady at the Subway place is making that drive Sat. So, the joke is that I have to make sure that she doesn't leave with my credit card for her week in Vegas.

The answer is approximately 450 miles and about 7 hours, according to mapquest.

mathernoble said...

I never said "worship." What are you talking about?

I'm glad you agree that that clip is creepy. My usual rule of thumb is to assume that if I agree with anything someone says while arguing in a comment thread, then we'd probably get along decently in a real life conversation.

Optimistic, and surely wrong, I know. But since I don't believe in god, I have to find grace somewhere. We all share that instinct.

Bruce Hayden said...

Bruce Hayden: Obama's problem is hardly that he is a "liberal wacko socialist." If only he were I might be hopeful for some improvements in our ruined society. His problem is that he is a member of the old boys club, just another establishment politician doing the bidding of the big banks and other corporate owners of our country. He is continuing policies carried over from the last administration.

I can understand that when you look at the bailout of the banks, AIG, and the two auto companies.

But not if you look at his "Stimulus" package and tax policy, nor at his "cap and trade" and socialized medicine proposals. Nor, even his foreign and military policy. And throw in shutting down Club Gitmo, bringing the terrorists back here for trial, and then potentially releasing them if not convicted.

Seven Machos said...

Mather -- Here is what you said:

talking about Bush in much, much more concretely unreal, lofty, uh, plainly Biblical terms

Blessing the president, for these people, is akin to asking God to tell the person how to act.

We certainly agree that evangelicals are creepy. But if you think Bush was somehow in league with those people, you are delusional. Bush and Obama were both vapid party boys in college. So they've got that in common. Hopefully, Obama also feels the same way about the communist cranks on the left.

kcom said...

"More to your point... WTF????? You really don't recall the Evangelicals talking about Bush in much, much more concretely unreal, lofty, uh, plainly Biblical terms????"

No, I don't. Perhaps that's because I don't hang out with evangelicals. Or perhaps they didn't actually say things like that. As others above have suggested, it would be real helpful if you supplied a link to back up your assertion. It would also be really nice if you could link to a story where people were collapsing with "the vapors" at a Bush rally.

"I think you recall. You just ignore."

No, I don't recall and don't think that was the case. But as I said, I don't hang out with evangelicals so if you supply some support for your claim, I promise not to ignore it.

"But you also site reading Malkin as a sign of being grounded. Heh."

No, I didn't say any such thing. Please read more carefully. I said reading her was a concrete (a word you seem to like) indication that the commenter I was replying to wasn't stuck in his own little echo chamber. If he claimed he was widely read regarding America and mentioned only DKos and the Huffington Post as his references then I would suspect he's deluding himself (like many others, including misguided commenters above, who really don't know what the other side is saying because they don't get out of their little box to find out). If he reads Michelle Malkin and others who are not his natural ideological soulmates it does indicate that he's probably more serious about examining all sides than most people are. And that's an admirable quality.

(I apologize in advance if I break your pigeonholing machine, but I'm not a regular reader of Michelle Malkin either.)

Hector Owen said...

Seven, about the article you mentioned at 7:38, it sounds like "Osama bin Elvis" by Angelo Codevilla. Smart article. Weird and irrelevant batch of comments.

Seven Machos said...

Hector -- That was it. An excellent read. Really, it presents some pretty radical ideas in a very thoughtful way. People on all sides should read it, just because it's so out of the box.

Chip Ahoy said...

I do not like movies like that. I don't like it in real life either. It happened to me once, a person I attributed semi deity characteristics to turned out at the end of the day to be an ordinary sociopath with ill intentions all along. And yet, I realize I went into that with my eyes wide open and with a sense that all that would all be worth it. It wasn't. I have yet to fully recover from that lasting disappointment. So no, I would not seek out a move that came anything near to that and I'v become much better at gazing into the future and heeding its warnings.

But I can think of two films with the title At the End of the Day

One is documentary based on a true story of Canadian right-to-die advocate Sue Rodriguez who lost two cases and ended up offing herself withe the help of a physician.

The other one is about a lawyer who wakes up in the body of a scofflaw in a different reality who goes nearly mad trying to discover his true identity.

As to presidents, pffffft, com'on. Nobody here has giant posters of US presidents. Do they? Whatdya think we are, personality cultists like Maoist China was or how they do in the Middle East? Naaaaah.

Revenant said...

He said, "Hey, let's get together!" I said, "Fine, we'll meet half way. That should only be ten hours drive each."

Heh! Yeah, I've encountered that phenomenon too. Although in my case it was a person in San Franscisco. I live in San Diego, they're both in California -- must be close by, right? Not so much.

Revenant said...

I don't see the point of that clip. Christian churches of all denominations regularly ask their congregations to bless the President and guide him to make the right decisions. I imagine they did the same thing to kings, back in the day.

Fen said...

Nobody here has giant posters of US presidents. Do they?

Ah but I bet a few here sleep under Che's poster..

Michael Hasenstab said...

It's not about Obama or Bush. It's an Althouse diversion.

Think, people, think.

Robert Cook said...

Bruce Hayden: "But not if you look at
(Obama's)...socialized medicine proposals."


Again, if only Obama were proposing socialized medicine, i.e., single payer universal health care, guaranteed to every American. But he is not. Whatever misbegotten Frankensteinian "fix up" (fuckup) of our health care system may emerge lurching from the lab, it will not be what we need and must have, but will be a patched together abomination, with the interests of the private for-profit insurance companies as the guiding light of its construction. Obama has proposed a plan like Mitt Romney's Massachusetts plan, where Americans would be required by law--at risk of penalty--to purchase their own health care from (wait for it) private for-profit health insurance companies.

It won't work and hasn't worked.

The for-profit insurance companies are parasites whose life-blood (profits) require that they deny payment for care.

Any true health care reform worthy of the name MUST exclude all the for-profit insurance companies from participation completely.

In short, we need socialized medicine, an expansion of Medicare to cover everyone, as it were, (as others before me have described it). Under Obama, we will not get this.

Lem said...

Obama as the sacrificed body and soul butler to service from “The Remains of the Day” 1993.

That can be an Obama is like Bush tag.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The for-profit insurance companies are parasites whose life-blood (profits) require that they deny payment for care.

It's evident you know nothing about the health insurance industry.

In short, we need socialized medicine, an expansion of Medicare to cover everyone, as it were, (as others before me have described it).

Sounds great but considering that Medicare is on the road to insolvency in about 10 years, I think another alternative is going to be required.

The main reason that the Medicare Advantage program was created was because even CMS realized that the private industry could manage care in a more cost effective maner than they could.

The downside to your hopes for such a system is that the Canadians won't have anywhere to go for thier health care.

Robert Cook said...

"...considering that Medicare is on the road to insolvency in about 10 years..."

We'll see if that's actually so or not, but one way to insure its continued solvency is to change our budget. Take money away from the war department's offense budget, which is larger than every other country's in the world combined, and reallocate it to Medicare. Hell, they could take away more than would be needed to fund national health care and we'd still have the largest military spending in the world.

As with Rome, it will be the unsustainable costs of expanding and maintaining our empire that will doom us.

Hoosier Daddy said...

We'll see if that's actually so or not, but one way to insure its continued solvency is to change our budget. Take money away from the war department's offense budget,

The 'offense' budget? Exactly what part of defense spending constitutes offense?

Hell, they could take away more than would be needed to fund national health care and we'd still have the largest military spending in the world.

Really? Well lets look at the facts. Medicare runs about $400 billion annually and covers about 44 million beneficiaries. So lets add the remaning 256 million American citizens to the rolls. Now considering the current defense budget is about $500 billion, that would cover say, another 50 million beneficiaries based upon current expenditures which leaves us with 201 million who still need funding and we have no military left.

Brilliant plan.

As with Rome, it will be the unsustainable costs of expanding and maintaining our empire that will doom us.

Or like Rome we'll be inundated with migrant tribes and assume power.

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