[A]s Obama sees himself slipping (temporarily) behind, he is willing make unproven charges that he probably wouldn't have been willing to say a week ago: that these guys are throwing rocks and hiding their hands.It's telling, then -- isn't it? -- that Obama brought up the attacks on Sarah Palin:
And Obama would probably have gotten away with it if Stephanopoulos had been willing to accept that. But Stephanopoulos pushed back and forced Obama to back down, Obama finally admitting: "Well, what I'm saying is that he [McCain] hasn't suggested ... that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign's upper echelons have not, either."
So when McCain's campaign manager is raised, Obama says, "these guys love to throw a rock and hide their hand." But when Stephanopoulos points out that he has no basis for making such a reckless charge, Obama admits that they haven't thrown rocks on this issue.
OBAMA: Now, well, look. Listen. You and I both know that the minute that Governor Palin was forced to talk about her daughter, I immediately said that's off limits. And...And you're doing something that they didn't do. The McCain campaign -- as Obama had it -- merely pointed at the liberal blogs and said it was terrible to attack Palin that way. But the McCain campaign never accused Obama of starting it. It accepted his assertion that he didn't do it and didn't think it should be done.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But John McCain said the same thing about questioning your faith.
OBAMA: And what was the first thing the McCain's campaign went out and did? They said, look, these liberal blogs that support Obama are out there attacking Governor Palin.
Now, talking to Stephanopoulos, Obama is saying that the McCain campaign really did start it and is hiding it. What is the justification for that charge? A guilty conscience? When he says the McCain camp likes to throw the rock and hide their hand, it makes me suspect that the Obama campaign is throwing rocks and hiding their hands!
You and I both know that the minute that Governor Palin was forced to talk about her daughter, I immediately said that's off limits.The minute... immediately... Yes, you have to be quick to hide your hand after you've throw a rock.
***
Bonus video: "I didn't do it."
Posts
165 comments:
We can talk about the back and forth hypocrisies all day. But as I said yesterday:
I watched the ABC interview with Obama.
This McCain supporter thought that Obama did pretty well for the most part, his only real stumble being the awkwardness of his answers about the surge. And as far as the "my Muslim faith" when he meant "Christian faith", give the guy a break: he's had to deal with the (ridiculous) rumors so long, a mix up is forgiveable.
What I saw was a thoughtful, likeable, smart and gifted young man. But I could not shake the view that if I were hiring him, I would not place him at the top job, but rather give him positions that would give him more experience and time to develop more judgment.
I even tried for several moments to perceive of Obama as someone who held the values I hold - would I then be open to wanting him to step into the Presidency, the top job? Again, the answer was easy - he's just not ready.
Another 8-10 years in the Senate, some real accomplishments - together with some real life-buffeting experiences - could actually make this man a formidable,tested, and trustworthy leader for all of America.
Yes, you have to be quick to hide your hand after you've throw a rock.
What is this "throw a rock and hide your hand" trope? I've never heard it before. What's the point of hiding your hand after throwing a rock? Do the cops test it for granite dust or something?
I think Obama is a victim of his enablers who suggested he was cicero, Lincoln, and FDR incarnate. As it turns out he can deliver a prepared speech; but simply does not do well on feet untethered. This is not a good thing for a President to be IMO.
Look at the things he has had to retract or clarify. He also managed to annoy gun owners when trying to extend his remarks to clear up some doubt--made matters much worse by saying "even if I wanted to take your guns away, I don't have the votes to do it" (Loose paraphrase). He will see that again on NRA ads in late october I think.
No Brent - Obama is a Muslim. At least Ann wants you think that.
She also wants you to think she's neutral. What a joke. Five months and still not one negative post on McCain. Not one negative post on Palin.
Wow, another tempest
What I saw was a thoughtful, likeable, smart and gifted young man. But I could not shake the view that if I were hiring him, I would not place him at the top job, but rather give him positions that would give him more experience and time to develop more judgment.
That was pretty much my take, too.
Downtown -- McCain and Palin have done some excellent political work. What is there negative to post about? Meanwhile, Obama and his running mate -- the windbag guy, whatever his name is -- they seem to be imploding in slow motion.
Also, gay marriage is not legal in most places in the United States and the world.
"When he says the McCain camp likes to throw the rock and hide their hand, it makes me suspect that the Obama campaign is throwing rocks and hiding their hands!"
Post Hoc, ergo Propter Hoc.
or is it Quo Vadimos? I can't remember which Sorkin-taught Latin phrase I'm supposed to use as a good liberal in this case.
He will see that again on NRA ads in late october I think.
Guaranteed. In fact, I'm betting the email from NRA-ILA has already been sent. My membership lapsed so I can't say for sure. Time to get that check sent in, though.
No Brent - Obama is a Muslim. At least Ann wants you think that.
Apparently Obama loves straw-man politics.
It's dangerous because he assumes that people will get enough information but not too much information from the media.
If they get too much information than they will realize Obama is a false prophet. If they don't get enough information, then they will only hear the bit of news about Obama being a muslim and actually believe he is a muslim. Thus Obama is aiming for the sweet spot. This is stupid politics. It's better to be honest and straight forward like McCain-Palin.
The polls are going up for John McCain because people no longer trust Obama to be straight with them.
Now Obama says he won't rescind Bush's tax cuts? What does Obama believe in? People want to know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1HmHV2KwzI
Palin believes in conversion therapy for gays. Then again, so does Ann's friend Dr. Helen.
Palin believes that gays are evil and should be stomped to death by herds of caribou.
I don't think Obama will win. America is too racist.
This was verified to me the other day when I spoke to my mother and she said that my uncle, who always votes Democratic, is voting for McCain this year. He's a Korean war vet, so I'm not surprised. But his reason was "I'm not voting for a black guy". My mother, also voting for McCain, didn't seemed bothered by that response.
I stated as much during the primaries. Pretty much - if you're older than 60 - you're likely a racist.
Sloan: re not rescinding the bush tax cuts--was that in print or on TV--I don't own a TV.
I'm pretty certain Palin would have aborted Trig if she knew he was gay.
Althouse said...
"Yes, you have to be quick to hide your hand after you've throw a rock."
That's the difficulty for the Obama camp. There's no way that they can prove that they didn't start the rumors, because the rumor originated in an anonymous diary on Daily Kos. Until we know for certain who that diarist was, we don't know whether the Obama campaign had any involvement with starting the rumor.
Perhaps someone should file suit and try to discover the diarist's identity.
Pretty much -- if you're gay -- you likely have some venereal disease.
Sloanasaurus said...
"Now Obama says he won't rescind Bush's tax cuts?"
That's pure bullshit opportunism on his part. Bush's tax cuts will expire absent positive action from Congress, which isn't going to be forthcoming, so Obama can make this claim to run on, and when the tax cuts sunset, he can claim never to have lied: he didn't rescind them. Congress just failed to act.
I stated as much during the primaries. Pretty much - if you're older than 60 - you're likely a racist.
Is this the meme people in small town America are hearing
Obama - vote for me (here's $1000) or else you are a racist.
McCain - vote for me and I will work hard to solve America's problems.
OBAMA: Now, well, look. Listen. You and I both know that the minute that Governor Palin was forced to talk about her daughter, I immediately said that's off limits.
I guess almost two days is immediately. It was his supporters, especially KOS, who ran with it. He immediately issued the statement after the smear campaign had run its course and started to backfire on him.
Whether he approved it or not, it came from his campaign or not, or it came out of the lunatic left field, he is responsible. They are his people. He let it run. If he had apologized he could be taken more seriously.
downtownlad said...
"I'm pretty certain Palin would have aborted Trig if she knew he was gay."
You really are obsessed with this gay thing, aren't you? Every single thing in your universe, to judge by your comments here, come back to gay, gay, gay, and if there's no gay angle, you'll make up a gay lie about gays. Talk about a one note symphony - a lot of noise, but little of interest.
The McCain campaign -- as Obama had it -- merely pointed at the liberal blogs and said it was terrible to attack Palin that way.
Sarah Nixon goes around lying saying Obama/Biden "attacked me and my family!". You'd think a cruel and neutral observer could find the time to point that out, and perhaps start a list chronicling all the lies.
The utter contempt for thinking beings and for the media for McCain to actually run an ad saying Palin opposed the Bridge to Nowhere *after* her lie has been completely discredited is astonishing.
dtl said - I don't think Obama will win. America is too racist.
You mean that you HOPE Obama loses to validate that depressing hole you live in, called your life.
Also, don't say "always votes ....", say "lifelong ....". It's code.
Obama can make this claim to run on, and when the tax cuts sunset, he can claim never to have lied: he didn't rescind them. Congress just failed to act.
I think there is more to this Obama statement. Obama has been basically saying for the last two years that Bush's tax cuts are ruining the economy. The tax cuts are the centerpiece of Bush's economic plan. Now Obama says he won't rescind the tax cuts if we are in a recession. WTF! That doesn't make any sense. How can you say the tax cuts are ruining the economy and then support them to make the economy better.
What is up with the Obama campaign. Are these just gaffes from Obama himself or calculated position changes based on the latest poll. Obama seems to switch positions instantaneously. The only way you can do this is if you don't have any principles.
More evidence that Obama is a giant fraud.
DTL wrote: Palin believes in conversion therapy for gays. Then again, so does Ann's friend Dr. Helen.
Uh no. Palin's pastor believes in praying for gays to change. This is weirder in its way, but not very threatening. Unless the prayer-rays get you.
"Palin, campaigning with McCain in the Midwest on Friday, has not publicly expressed a view on the so-called "pray away the gay" movement."
This reminds me of a movie. One of the Son of Charlie Chan movies. Every time the son went into his office, in the back of the fortune cookie factory, a brick came flying through the window. Attached to the brick was an ad for a glass repair company. He had a whole stack of them in his office.
What is throwing rocks and hiding your hand? Palestinian poker?
No rock throwing regardless of housing situation, is my new adopted motto.
Actually Simon - Seven brought up the gay thing, and I was making jokes on his comment.
But when you stop mentioning your wife, I'll stop mentioning being gay.
downtownlad said...
She also wants you to think she's neutral. What a joke...
Ya know, you can always start your own blog and slam anyone you want. You could name it BLAH BLAH BLAH.
It's true. I did bring up the gay thing. There's a solid historical foundation for that, though.
Seven thinks a prominent blogger's son has a venereal disease. How quaint.
And what rock was thrown anyway? That Palin's daughter was promiscuous and got knocked up? That is 100% fact.
Peter V. Bella wrote: Whether he approved it or not, it came from his campaign or not, or it came out of the lunatic left field, he is responsible. They are his people. He let it run. If he had apologized he could be taken more seriously.
Peter, this is an inane standard. He didn't "let it run" any more than the McCain campaign "let run" the Obama-is-a-muslim emails.
No campaign has the power to police all of its idiot fellow travelers. If this is the standard for political responsibility, McCain will get tagged for forced apologies just as often as Obama.
The fact is, both Obama and Biden said the right thing, about as promptly as anyone could ask. And why wouldn't they? They both have families too.
Obama is not ready to be President of the United States.
He doesn't have the demeanor, experience, intellectual curiosity, attitude, humility or appreciation of his circumstances required.
Furthermore, he appears to be unable to assemble a staff of people that have the knowledge of those qualities or requisite experience to assist him.
He is in no way prepared for that office.
Here is one of the rocks tossed by Howard Gutman of the Obama campaign last Friday on FOX:
“If my daughter had just come home at 17 years old and said, ‘Mom, Dad, I’m pregnant, we have a family problem,’ I wouldn’t say, ‘You know what we’re going to do? We’re going to take this private family problem … I’m going to go on the international stage and broadcast it to the world’,” he said.
Gutman later added: “If you take a daughter who’s got this emotional strife and subject her to the most intense scrutiny of the world at this time in her life, I think you’ve put your career above your family.”
Obama stated - “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ on 9/5/2008. I think I got it in a email from the NRA before I saw it on the news.
The NRA also has a couple of sites up - http://www.nraila.org/obama/ and http://gunbanobama.com/
He is no friend to gun owners.
downtownlad said...
Palin believes in conversion therapy for gays. Then again, so does Ann's friend Dr. Helen.
Last time I looked beliefs were not outlawed in the US.
Downtown -- Why would you drag anybody's kid into what is so obviously a joke?
Wow, downtownlad throws his mother under the bus. Must be a liberal thang.
Obama is just tossing out accusations randomnly and hoping some of them stick. He's scared.
When he says the McCain camp likes to throw the rock and hide their hand, it makes me suspect that the Obama campaign is throwing rocks and hiding their hands!
Makes me think they're both throwing rocks. If the Obama camp doesn't throw rocks, the dems loose to Rove, again.
And what is wrong with that Drill Sgt? Do you really think that it's admirable how Palin handled the announcdement of her daughter's pregnancy?
She's five months pregnant. She would have been seven months pregnant by the time of the election. Britney Spear's sister made front page news when that came out, and most people never even heard of her. Obviously the press would figure this out eventually, give me a break.
Sorry - but it was poor judgment on Palin's part to think that she could just hide this info and that nobody would talk about it. Even if she wasn't selected for VP, that is info that you need to release to the press eventually.
Not that it should disqualify her from being VP, but she should have figured out a better way of getting that info out there ASAP. Once it was out there, nobody cared. Personally, I think they should have announced it as soon as she was selected and made it one of the talking points about her family (has Down Syndrome kid, dealing with a pregnant daughter, eats mooseburgers, etc).
downtownlad said...
I stated as much during the primaries. Pretty much - if you're older than 60 - you're likely a racist.
Most of the racist and neo-nazi groups are populated by people in there teens through their thirties.
But, you bring up an interesting point. Your own hypocrisy. You hate straight people. You are a hetreophobe. Why is it OK for you to hate people for what they are and not anyone else? Just asking?
downtownlad said...
I'm pretty certain Palin would have aborted Trig if she knew he was gay.
Bet your mom would have done the same thing.
All ground noise and static.
I get emails every day from people I know forwarding unbelievable BS about Obama. A friend of mine who is a pastor at an evangelical church gets emails forwarded to him by parishanors about how Obama actually is the anti-christ.
Some nobody KOS diarist says one thing and Althouse goes apeshit about how unprecedented all the fevor swamp internet rumors are.
What's laughable is Charles Johnson at LFG spends months trying to debunk creationist readers on his own blog and then decides he doesn't really mean it when sara palin comes to the stage.
Sara Palin: "Hey my son is going to Iraq, let's talk about my family values"
Sara Palin" "Hey my daughter got knocked up, how dare you talk about my family values"
My mother's a bigot patca - I've said that many times before and I've told it to her face. I also called my sister a cunt.
Obama is not ready to be President of the United States.
He doesn't have the demeanor, experience, intellectual curiosity, attitude, humility or appreciation of his circumstances required.
Agreed. Obama is breathtakingly unqualified to be President.
Peter: Heterophobe! I love it. Reminds me of Seinfeld's anti-dentite show (prjudice against dentists)
Stick to the subject matter Peter.
Heterophobe: must make the 86% white strait christian majority feel really nice when they get to play victim.
The Hotline poll that had Obama up by 7 last week now shows the race as a tie.
McCain is now up by more that 2 on the real clear politics average. Obama was up by as high as 6 the weekend after his speech. Making the Republican convention an 8 point bounce for McCain so far.
The rumours were flying in Alaska that Bristol was pregnant. The rumours were also flying that the governor may have been covering up for her daughter's pregnancy.
The story was half true. But what is wrong with blogs asking questions and trying to chase down the facts?
This story would have come out eventually, even if no blogs wrote about it. And the press would have had the same reaction (which was pretty tame - stories about teen pregnancy, etc)
The rumours were also flying that the governor may have been covering up for her daughter's pregnancy.
The story was half true.
The fact that Bristol was pregnant was apparently well known in Wassila.
What would Obama be apologizing for exactly?
McCain has still not denounced the Muslim emails about Obama.
All he has said is that he is not behind them.
Consider that before criticizing Obama for not responding to Bristol's pregnancy until he was asked about it by the press.
downtownlad said...
The rumours were flying in Alaska that Bristol was pregnant.
The original smear was not about Bristol's pregnancy. The original smear from KOS and other Obama supporters was that Trig was Bristol's son and not Sarah Palin's son and Palin was covering it up. That was the original smear.
It was dead wrong, not half right.
Sloan - It was well known in Wasilla. So what's wrong with blogs for asking those questions? Why should they engage in self-censorship?
Peter V. Bella said...
The fact is, both Obama and Biden said the right thing, about as promptly as anyone could ask. And why wouldn't they? They both have families too.
You consider almost two days as promptly as any one could ask?
An apology would have given Obama credibility and shown he has gravitas. He could have taken the high road. It would have cost him nothing and probably made him look very good. Instead he waited.
...are you really gonna quote yourself 3x?
So what Peter. It was a blog. It was SPECULATION.
Do you realize that Ann just SPECULATED that Obama was behind the those rumours, yet Ann has not provided one iota of evidence. She SPECULATED that he is being deceitful and lying.
What the hell is the difference?
I don't think Obama or McCain coordinates the wacko attacks from their more deranged supporters. What's more interesting to me is whether we will (or should) get into a game of who is fast enough to denounce their own nutcases. Or if we're already there.
It seems to me that it's a judgement call on where you hold the campaign responsible for what supporters are saying, even if they don't work for the campaign directly. I think Obama has a bigger problem than McCain in this regard for a number of reasons:
1) The more extreme nuts on the right are mostly old news.
2) The Dems have conferred too much respectability on outfits like HuffPo and dKos by participating on their sites and taking their money.
3) When you put your name on mybarackobama.com, you end up taking responsibility for what goes onto it, fairly or not.
2 and 3 are a consequence of the D's desire to do fundraising with their fringe, and to avoid the fate of Lieberman.
Peter, sometimes it has taken the Obama campaign days to respond to attacks on Obama, let alone his opponents.
And I still assert that you propose a terrible standard for responsibility. A campaign can't take responsibility for the actions of its extremist supporters. It gives the extremists too much power.
UWS guy said...
What would Obama be apologizing for exactly?
The actions of his supporters. People do this all the time and it is not unusual.
Islam what?
lol
Obama did not have a good weekend. Bill O'Reilly finally dragged out of him the admission that the surge had succeeded "beyond our wildest dreams." In his appearance before a $30,000-a- plate crowd, he complained about being bullied. His Pennsylvania performance before a pre-selected audience provided yet another verbal gaffe and ended up with him pleading with the gun owners in the room to give him a break. Then Stephanopolous called him for rock-throwing on-camera.
The real problem for Barack Obama and Joe Biden is that they can't run an ad like this.
At least Ann wants you think that.
She also wants you to think she's neutral.
They make a pill for this sort of thing, you know.
It won't make the voices go away entirely, no... but: it'll damp down the volume of their combined screechings, somewhat.
Take that tinfoil-scraping-against-your-molars "edge" right off, it will.
@henry fyi.
Not one person I know has ever received an email about Obama supposedly being a Muslim. I frankly think it's BS. Do you have a copy, anything?
"Pretty much - if you're older than 60 - you're likely a racist."
If you are an interior decorator- you're likely a homosexual.
If you are from West Virginia - you probably play the banjo
Let's all play the stereotype game!!
Epiphany strikes! The lack of information about Obama and now Palin is what is driving this election cycle.
I'm a conservative libertarian (note the adjective and noun use). Hence, I am likely to give Palin the benefit of the doubt. She probably agrees with me is my default. Similarly, I am suspicious of Obama. He probably does not agree with me is my default. For people on the left, it's the same basic paradigm but reversed.
At the end of the day, this is why we shouldn't nominate blank slates like these two people. However, also at the end of the day, it's why McCain is going to win: go with the one devil out of four that you know and isn't a silly windbag.
That Palin's daughter was promiscuous and got knocked up? That is 100% fact.
Oh? You must have a greater insight into her sex life than anyone I've seen. It's been ages since sex-ed, but I'm still pretty sure pregnancy is proof of a single instance of intercourse with one person. How do you go from that to promiscuous?
"Fact". I do not think it means what you think it means.
That's bullshit Dust Bunny. Lots of interior decorators are straight women.
The male interior decorators - all gay. Including this straight acting cop.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gaysouthflorida/2008/07/under-investiga.html
Hot!
Do you realize that Ann just SPECULATED that Obama was behind the those rumours, yet Ann has not provided one iota of evidence.
Not to mention the red meat (w/ poll!) she threw to the hyenas asking "Do you think Barack Obama seriously considered joining the military?" Giggle giggle. TeeHehehehe.
As if that's not an option every high school senior had at least thought of once. Hack.
To: undisclosed-recipients
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:55 AM
Subject: FW: Think you know who this man is?
This possible President of the United States !! Read Below and
ask yourselves, is this REALLY someone we can see as the
President of our great nation!!!!
Below are a few lines from Obama's books; In his words!
From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the
age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was
ingratiating myself to whites.'
From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive
sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me
wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side
you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out
and name names.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men
whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the
black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought
in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'
And FINALLY the Most Damming one of ALL of them!!!
From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the
political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
* If you have never forwarded an e-mail, now is the time to Do so!!!!
We CANNOT have someone with this type of mentality running our GREAT
nation!! I don't care whether you a Democrat or a Conservative. We
CANNOT turn ourselves over to this type of character in a President.
PLEASE help spread the word.
this is the most recent one, I delete most, I think I forwarded one to Ann Althouse once not to long ago.
And being from West Virginia has nothing to do with the banjo. It just means that you don't own a pair of shoes. And you sleep with your sibling.
Sheesh.
I'm pretty certain Palin would have aborted Trig if she knew he was gay.
You've still got a little bit hanging on your lip, right there.
George - I don't care if Ann's speculating. She's a blogger, not a journalist. She's not only allowed to speculate, she's expected to speculate.
And Daily Kos is allowed to do the same.
The irony of the last one of course is, if the "political winds" were to shift in an "ugly" direction toward american muslims I would hope the pres. of the united states would appease racist, bigot filth.
Obviously to the forwarders of this message though, they'd be happy to lynch muslims in the US.
downtownlad said...
So what Peter. It was a blog. It was SPECULATION.
Do you realize that Ann just SPECULATED that Obama was behind the those rumours, yet Ann has not provided one iota of evidence. She SPECULATED that he is being deceitful and lying.
What the hell is the difference?
The minute that governor Palin was forced to talk about her daughter was two days after the vicious rumor of who really is Trig’s mother started. Two days of demeaning and vicious rumors. Why did Obama wait almost two days to make a statement and Biden wait over two days to make a statement? It took two days before the rumors started backfiring. Obama issued his statement the minute two days had passed and Palin came out to squelch the rumors. It is called circumstantial evidence of deceit and lying. It is not enough to go into court with; but enough to raise suspicion and ask questions about deceit and lying.
"No campaign has the power to police all of its idiot fellow travelers. If this is the standard for political responsibility, McCain will get tagged for forced apologies just as often as Obama."
So now Obama's National Finance Chair = fellow traveler? Wow, that is just AWESOME judgment and leadership on Obama's part.
UWS guy, do you know for certain that mail isn't from an Obama supporter trying to make his opponents look like bigots? Do you know who actually wrote it?
And how do you know that the "Trig is not Sara Palin's real baby" didn't come from karl rove?
Of course, whatever goes up on Daily Kos gets read over the air on MSNBC - not really Kos' fault, I guess, but that's how things from the left end up in the MSM - and once MSNBC airs it, then the other networks have to at least address the story. Oh, and any really deranged rumor also ends up on the e-pages of the once respectable The Atlantic via unhinged Andi.
Because it sure did energize the base to rush to defend a woman nobody knew and overshadowed real concerns about what qualities she had....
and Eric: It was forwarded by very conservative republican friends of the family.
So regardless of who crafted it...the republican base like the email enough to send it to their friends in agreement.
garage mahal said...
"Sarah Nixon"
LOL. That's pretty good. I mean, it doesn't really work in a real sense (Palin is a lot more conservative than Nixon, for example, and doesn't seem to share many personal traits or qualities with him) but it's a clever soundbite.
downtownlad said...
"[W]hen you stop mentioning your wife, I'll stop mentioning being gay."
It is a very rare comment of mine that brings up my wife or child, because my family status or sexual orientation just isn't relevant to 99.9% of what we talk about here. That's your problem: you seem to think that your orientation is relevant to (and thus must be dragged into a debate about) absolutely anything. But for the most part, it's of no relevance and no one cares. There's no hetero or homo way to cook a hamburger, but if Ann posted a thread about the pic of McCain firing up the grill you'd find a way to unzip and get out your pet issue.
downtownlad said...
"Stick to the subject matter Peter."
Pretty ironic coming from someone who tries in virtually every post he comments on to change the subject to gays, no matter what the subject is.
Re the email UWS reposts, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't put much stock in emails that use multiple exclamation points, that misspell common words ("the most damming [sic.] evidence"), or that are outright ungrammatical.
Simon people do care. Some people cared enough to kill Matthew Sheppard.
Well of course the email is ridiculous, but there is a large swath of middle america that believes these emails.
church goers, family men, good people for the most part. Not daily kos diarists and anarchists, people with jobs and families.
Sloanasaurus said...I stated as much during the primaries. Pretty much - if you're older than 60 - you're likely a racist.
Is this the meme people in small town America are hearing
Obama - vote for me (here's $1000) or else you are a racist.
That's been the campaign from the beginning.
Obama's birth was the beginning of the God given opportunity for White America to atone for the Original Sin of Whiteness.
Obama's mother did her part now all White America has to is vote for the Redeemer and their sins will be washed away.
But White America too sinful, too hateful and ugly and fearful for that.
It's a land of retarded cowboys who cling to their guns and God .
Which idea is more loathsome and "evil" (as ann likes to say?)
That Sara Palin isn't the mother of Trig? Or that the president would be a better man if he didn't stop the lynchings of muslim americans if we were to be attacked again?
Not one person I know has ever received an email about Obama supposedly being a Muslim. I frankly think it's BS. Do you have a copy, anything?
PatCa: I have received such e-mails--many, in fact. I'm not sure quite how to prove that to you, since forwarding one to you would involve revealing my real name and the names of senders and other recipients.
OK: I'll cut-and-paste text from just one of them (this particular one is from March 26, 2008, and it is one of the milder):
According to The Book of Revelations the anti-christ is:
The anti-christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA??
I STRONGLY URGE each one of you to repost this as many times as you can! Each opportunity that you have to send it to a friend or media outlet...do it!
If you think I am crazy..Im sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the "unknown" candidate.
I realize I haven't addressed the issue of PROVING that I didn't just make that up ... but I'm hoping that reader_iam has at least enough credibility here that you'll take my word for it that I did, and would, do no such thing.
Obama's never won a straight-up election in his life. He's succeeded through a variety of legal maneuvering and political machinations, but he has never stood toe-to-toe with a viable opponent up until Election Day.
Even in the Democratic primaries he started to fade long before the end of the race. It was only a complicit press corps that carried his limp body across the finish line.
He used that same complicit press corps in an effort to force Palin off the ticket before she accepted the nomination: it was the ultimate attempt to throw stones and hide his hand.
By the MSM's own admission, they were caught completely flatfooted by McCain's choice. Yet without even the opportunity to send a reporter to the state, they all magically, mystically somehow picked up every single rumor at the same time. Yes, the same press corps that couldn't find out what Edwards has been up to for at least the last 2 years despite rumors being circulated on blogs for the entire time. But now we're supposed to believe that they were so hyper-vigilant on blog rumors that the NY Times was able to put together THREE (3!) front page stories in a single day based on nothing more than a one-off dKos diary?
How stupid are we supposed to be to buy into this alternate reality? The obvious truth is that this was a mass-media attack coordinated by the Obama campaign who was feeding its choice reporters information they could not possibly have obtained from any other source than Democratic opposition research.
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. The new polling over the weekend is showing a strong sympathatic move toward McCain-Palin because of the media firestorm that was unleashed.
Uh oh! Disasterous unintended consequences for the campaign! Reverse gears!
So out go the new marching orders to staunch the bleeding: stop all attacks on the Palin family...NOW!
Once again, a wave of the magic wand and dKos, the NYT and Mr. Happy Pants Sullivan all have "hands off the family" posts/articles and reminders to attack McCain not Palin. What? All on the same day? The deuce you say!
But, hey...there's no coordination with the campaign...Obama's hands are clean: he would never participate in the despicable attacks on a 17 year old girl and Down syndrome baby...Nothing to see here...Move along...
The trio that started the anti-Palin landslide of trash - all supposedly completely independent of one another without any coordation whatsoever - all suddenly stop their trash talk about the Palin family - all making supposedly 100% independent decisions that reached the exact same conclusions at exactly the same time.
Whoa! Talk about serendipity for the Obama campaign. What stupendously stupendous luck!
What started in those three places right on cue before she had even had a chance to be introduced by John McCain, suddenly stopped on a dime just as the campaign needed them to prevent further damage. I mean, that couldn't have worked out better if Obama's campaign had planned it...oh wait....
[Oh, and by the way and OJ was innocent and the massive 9/11 conspiracy and cover-up was engineered by (in their words) a "retarded cowboy" with more leaks in his administration than a rusty bucket - except for all those 9/11 secrets, of course.]
Obama and his campaign think we're all stupid and can't put two and two together. (In the case of the willing dupes who are still defending this transparent gutter politics, they're obviously right.)
As for the rest of us, we can do the math just fine...
downtownlad said...
That's bullshit Dust Bunny. Lots of interior decorators are straight women.
Lots of “so called interior decorators” are prostitutes too.
UWS: I got that one, too! (Multiple copies, damn it.) I didn't pick that one to paste in only because of its length.
I can guarantee that UWS didn't make that one up ... because, as I said, I have copies of it sitting in three different e-mail accounts. Sigh.
Yeah but reader you keep forwarding those Amway emails to me and that's just gotta stop.
I don't need auto products, I don't have a car. Enough already.
UWS guy wrote: And how do you know that the "Trig is not Sara Palin's real baby" didn't come from karl rove?
For a minute there, I thought you were starting a new rumor: the real father is Karl Rove!
Holdfast, I think it's fine to question a candidate about things said by major campaign contributors, or their more wild-eyed supporters, but I reject the idea that a candidate is compelled to proactively apologize for anything outside of the direct campaign. It's just an impossible standard for any candidate to meet.
There are multiple levels of communication and responsibility in a campaign. Topmost are the things the candidates say themselves. Then come the official statements of the campaign. Then things voiced by paid employees of the campaign. Then by volunteers. Up to this point, the candidate is literally responsible (for message and hires) and I would hold them so.
Beyond that, there's a cacaphony of messages served up by the usual partisans and attention-seekers and it serves no one's interests to pay much attention to them.
This is a bit like the discovery process in a lawsuit. Asking candidates to respond to every dumb thing out there uses up their resources and would make the political season even more trivial and incoherent that it is.
Well of course the email is ridiculous, but there is a large swath of middle america that believes these emails.
church goers, family men, good people for the most part. Not daily kos diarists and anarchists, people with jobs and families.
I second this comment. Like it or not, surprising people believe and pass on this stuff. (Including, unfortunately, members of my extended family.)
Of course, whatever goes up on Daily Kos gets read over the air on MSNBC - not really Kos' fault, I guess,
It's not. It's not Kos' fault, or the next (il)logical progression - the Obama campaign's. Media confusion is the goal, here. Discerning palette's will know the difference.
I still never heard anyone provide me with the evidence trounced around by McCain's camp (Pftohenfoterhaure or whatever her name is) that there was a claim she should put her family first.
The only theory that is holding water is that the ONLY person who said that was Dr. Laura (you know, that leftist Ann always complains about). And that the McCain camp started the rumor to attribute it to... nobody. Hoping that the media would pick it up.
And they did.
Sad to think that the only people calling camp McCain on this double-talk is John Stewart.
Henry said...
And I still assert that you propose a terrible standard for responsibility. A campaign can't take responsibility for the actions of its extremist supporters. It gives the extremists too much power.
We are talking about KOS, MYDD, and DU, to cite a few. They have real power- millions of people who read them and vote- over the party and are not to be alienated.
That standard of responsibility went out the window years ago when the first PR guy told some big wig to apologize for something he had never even heard of. Apology is the new standard. People in power apologize for things they are not responsible for everyday. It costs nothing and the returns are big.
Obama could have come out looking like a hero. The questions, speculations, and rumors of his involvement would have stopped.
Now he looks like a dupe.
Dyslexic fingers this morning. Fixed.
Trooper is lying! It's not called Amway in the U.S. anymore!
And sheesh, yeah, I get that type of stuff too.
Extended family. What can you do.
I've received those Muslim emails, too. Now I'm receiving Palin smear emails. The phony book-banning list appears to be particularly popular. That one appears to be a winner, as among those who forwarded it are reasonably loyal Republicans who they believed it.
reader: I realize I haven't addressed the issue of PROVING that I didn't just make that up ... but I'm hoping that reader_iam has at least enough credibility here that you'll take my word for it that I did, and would, do no such thing.
I find you credible. We disagree often, but I always find your arguments to be in good faith.
Have you considered the origin? I'm not asserting that these types of email chains are astr-turf, but it would benefit Obama to seed the net with this kind of diversionary bs that he can play his victim card off of. Just curious if thats crossed your mind.
Yeah, yeah sure I'm lying. I mean that stuff is bad but not as bad as the penis extended stuff that RH Hardin keeps circulating. He says that's how he gets all the chicks.
Jim said...
"Obama's never won a straight-up election in his life. He's succeeded through a variety of legal maneuvering and political machinations, but he has never stood toe-to-toe with a viable opponent up until Election Day."
It would be kind of funny if he gets pole-axed by the Berg litigation then, won't it? ;)
"At least Ann wants you think that.
She also wants you to think she's neutral."
Ann Althouse is the Muhammad Ali of neutrality. Cruel, but with a left-right-left combination that leaves her opponents reeling.
I second this comment. Like it or not, surprising people believe and pass on this stuff. (Including, unfortunately, members of my extended family.)
I have to agree. I mean, if hundreds of people smart enough to log onto the Internets and post comment blogs on an Internets site called the Daily Cause or somesuch about some wacked out theory that Sarah Palin was faking her pregnancy, then we have to concede that a lot of folks will believe emails full of quotes from Obama's books, too.
edit/
astro-turf, as in Team Obama planting racist smears on the net, making it look like grass-roots GOP, so Obama can go back into his "because I'm different" lecture.
You're behind the times, Reader! Amway is phasing out Quixtar and calling itself Amway yet again. As always, Trooper York is on the cutting edge of news and fashion ;-)
About the emails, I occaisionally get deputed to check the customer care mailbox for my company, and people who send mass email forwards to their entire address book -- people who are destined for a very special circle of hell, one reserved for child molestors and people who talk at the theater -- end up sending it to us if we've corresponded ever before. And I always wonder what I should do with these emails, because you kind of feel that you can't respond. But on the other hand, if it's a non-political thing - a fortiori if it's something relevant to what we do - and Snopes has debunked it I tend to reply all with the link to Snopes. What do folks here think - should I start replying to those emails to customer care with the Snopes link?
Well, thanks for the emails. I guess I'm on the wrong email list, or the right one, actually.
Are the quotes true from his memoirs or are they made up?
Fen: I tend to think not, given who the primary senders are. In one case, it's the same person who's been sending me stuff for something like a decade--including massive amounts of Swift Vet stuff back during Kerry's campaign in 2004. I hardly think Obama was setting up rumors about Kerry ... .
The person to whom I just referred is my husband's uncle, not some random acquaintance or colleague or something. I'm talking family, and we do know him, in the flesh (my husband, obviously, for his entire life).
Note also that the mass emails from your friends may be due to their PCs being infected or from their clicking on links to address book harvesting spambots.
Not that I think that's the most likely explanation.
something like a decade
Now that I think about, that's well over a decade. Time flies.
I just got an email that said Obama is changing his name to
Ocho Pulgadas.
That can't be right. I thought only football players did that crap.
Of course that would explain why Andrew Sullivan loves him so much.
Are the quotes true from his memoirs or are they made up?
That was my question, too.
I can understand being upset if they were fake quotes, but if they are pulled word for word from his books, then get over it.
Pretty much - if you're older than 60 - you're likely a racist.
Whew, glad I made the "not racist" cutoff.
If Mort were awake he would tell you that Brett Farve is over sixty and that makes him a racist.
I still never heard anyone provide me with the evidence trounced around by McCain's camp (Pftohenfoterhaure or whatever her name is) that there was a claim she should put her family first.
Scroll up a bit and read the quote by Howard Gutman.
"Holdfast, I think it's fine to question a candidate about things said by major campaign contributors, or their more wild-eyed supporters, but I reject the idea that a candidate is compelled to proactively apologize for anything outside of the direct campaign."
But shouldn't a National Finance Chair face some reprecussions for making this statement - he's not supposed to be just some idiot fellow traveller? I know it is crowded under the Obama bus, but surely there is room for one more?
Where is Mort? Haven't heard from him in a while?
Rock throwing
How 'bout those Green Bay Jets?
Anyhow, a guy at work says his brother in law was originally from Alaska, where it's a well-known fact that Todd Palin isn't actually Sarah Palin's husband. He's actually her eldest son, born when she was only 13. Her family has been covering this up for years.
Sara and Todd's "children" are actually a group of orphans who were carefully selected to look somewhat like siblings. The children aren't allowed to speak on camera because several of them were found in eastern Europe, and their accents are a problem.
Rove put the whole thing together, with the help of the illuminati.
Simon: You really are obsessed with this gay thing, aren't you?
downtownlad has optirectitis - his optic nerve is crossed with his rectal nerve. The result is that he views the world through his arse, giving him a shitty outlook on life.
Here is one quote, from factcheck.org:
"Actual quote from "The Audacity of Hope" [pg. 261]: Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
I still think it's wimpy, and assumes that American public opinion will, of course, shift in an ugly direction. Victimology, contempt for Americans, it's all there.
downtownlad: McCain has still not denounced the Muslim emails about Obama
You could probably convince McCain that he could to denounce the Muslim emails about Obama being sent out by Hillary volunteers.
What are a West Virginia 13 yr old's first words after losing her virginity?
Get off me, Pop, you're crushing my smokes.
And their football team sucks, too. I mean, East Carolina?
No one throws rocks like the fans at Mountaineer Field. Bottles and cans, too. They don't hide their hands, either. Mountaineer fans burn a few couches, too. Obama should work that couch-burning thing into his stump speech. It would impress the hell out of those inbred Byrd lovers.
Simon: And I always wonder what I should do with these emails, because you kind of feel that you can't respond. But on the other hand, if it's a non-political thing - a fortiori if it's something relevant to what we do - and Snopes has debunked it I tend to reply all with the link to Snopes. What do folks here think - should I start replying to those emails to customer care with the Snopes link?
Political or no, friend or no, if some jackass sends me an unvetted mass email, and it turns out to be false (I check as many as I can), I WILL do a reply-to-all, and I will point out that they waisted me time with yet another bullshit email, and that they owe each and every person they sent it to a correction and an apology.
And if they didn't use blind-carbon-copy, I nail them for sharing my email address without my permission.
It took a few years, but people don't send me those mass emails any more.
How is rock-throwing so noteworthy? Now SKIPPING rocks; that takes talent.
Hey, both "my Muslim faith" and rock-throwing go hand-in-hand!
Heh, Palladian. It's not unknown in the Judeo-Christian narrative. Remember that the Holy Mother Mary was supposed to have been stoned by villagers for bearing a child "out-of-wedlock". Of course, Jesus also prevented a similar fate befalling Mary Magdalene.
Shame that Clint Eastwood has appropriated the "line in the sand" visual, else Obama could've used that.
Hey I know there is Christian Rock but I never knew there was Muslim Rock.
Wouldn't that be the type of rock Senator would be throwing?
Of course John McCain was born and raised in Bedrock.
His dad worked as a forman at the gravel pit after he retired from the navy. He was always throwing rocks at Fred and Barney.
"Of course John McCain was born and raised in Bedrock."
To find his newborn hand and foot prints you don't consult his birth record, you consult the fossil record.
Plus the rumor is in his wild days in high school John McCain banged Wilma.
Cause ya know Pebble's mom had it going on!
She was the original cougar.
Of course they called her a sabre tooth then.
And don't even mention the the gay old time, TY.
Hey they were all messed up in Bedrock man. That's where they got all the plots for the new series "Swingtown."
You know they would sit around the cave and throw the birds that started the car onto the coffee table. Freaky deaky man.
Regarding that email. Obama IS "of muslim descent." That's not the issue. That's never been the issue. The question is whether or not he, a person with a muslim first and middle name, person who prayed to allah as a child, studied the koran, went to a muslim school and went to mosque as a child, is a muslim now. That's the question.
It's where the original Plato opened the original "Plato's" retreat.
Of course the worst of them was Betty. She was a stone freak. Man she would do anyone. She even had a strap on teradactyl for cavewoman on cavewoman action.
Barney finally had to divorce her.
In the divorce papyrus that is in the Library of Congress the cause for the divorce is recorded in just one word:
Dino!
He Fred, wanna go bowling?
I always wondered why they named that kid bam bam? Could it have been how fast he was conceived? Bam, Bam, thank you maam? Or was he doing Betty and Wilma at an early age? You notice everytime he went Bam Bam, she would disappear off screen.
Why is he talking like this?
What is he trying to do? I don't think that his words and argument win him anything, in fact he comes across as whiny and weak.
I suspect this is ground preparation for the manufactured reaction when anyone says anything that can be remotely construed as racist.
I would look for more poking around the idea that Palin is racist. Already there was the waitress story.
Or is this a bone to the base? The only ones that would react positively to these types of comments are those who really think that any criticism of him is beyond the pale. Is there a trend in his base that he is trying to get ahead of?
I'm not sure. All I know is that for a national leader with pretensions of being president to be whining about his opponents attacks, something strange is going on.
Derek
SuperAlthouse can wade through the bullshit faster than a speeding bullet. Isn't that part of her mysterious allure? She has me throughly sucked into her vortex, like a moth, bewildered & bedazzled, caught in her spiderwoman web, struggling to get free. A totally hopeless cause!
I realize the trapeze act that the candidates must endeavor to balance in order to try to placate everyone. Bill Clinton was the master of that crap. Look how Clarence Thomas lied through his confirmation hearing. He lied about Roe; he lied about Anita Hill; he lied in shades about believing in Stare Decisis. He Stared'em Down to the ground is what he did. It lies, injustice, and the fake-left fake-right American way that got Bush to be our dear leader. Obama and McBush are holy saints by comparison. SuperAlthouse to the rescue, and a few laughs, too, thank goodness!
I would look for more poking around the idea that Palin is racist. Already there was the waitress story.
BTW, I was sleuthing around this story a bit, and found out something, well, curious.
Maybe it's nothing, or a coincidence, but do you know that Sarah Palin grew up in her parents house in Wasilla...on Lucille St.?
Today, CNN's Wolf Blitzer had a Palin's Church story, where they showed Palin giving a speech inside her church referring to God and the war in Iraq. They tried to spin it into Bush terms ("God told me"), but if the opposition attack her religion, the Christian side of the Republican Party will go ballistic.
This is the problem with Obama's religious problem v. Palin's religious views.
They had few people to defend him, because few black Americans and even less white Americans had any knowledge of BLT churches.
But Palin has tonnes of defenders in hers.
Cheers,
Victoria
The set of the Flintstones was a troubled one from the very beginning. Fred was a terrible drunk who was always hanging out at Toot’s Shores saloon with Jackie Gleason and Mickey Mantle. They would drink and carouse until early in the morning. Then they would each grab a girl and go off to have some fun. But Fred could never get it up after drinking a fifth of whiskey. We would get to the set in the morning and go to his trailer to find him covered in vomit with his pants around his ankle and some bimbo crying. And they always said the same thing. “He promised me a Yabba-dabba-do good time.”
(Joseph Barbera and Herbet Finn, The E True Hollywood Story of the Flintstones: Stoned in Bedrock)
Does it make a difference that the Kos Convention has been the place to be for Democratic candidates for a couple of years now? Have prominent Democrats not had articles published on the Kos site? So, no surprise that many conflate Kos with the Democratic party.
Simon, I watched that episode, "Our Mrs. Reynolds" just last night.
Watching a live call-in issues show on Maryland PBS with a Dem and a Republican. I spy the next Palin attack: Why has she refused to meet with the NAACP for the last two years? I immediately wonder if she has been invited, but just getting the meme out there may do damage enough.
Victoria said...Today, CNN's Wolf Blitzer had a Palin's Church story, where they showed Palin giving a speech inside her church referring to God and the war in Iraq.
The piece was worse than that. It was about Palin's ex-church and Pastor. The one she left because they were a bit too far out. Guess what Blitzer tried to paint them as a weird cult or tongues speakers.
I've heard the Palin Iraq speech. I would describe it in total as about what you'd expect from any Army Chaplain (as my wife phrased it earlier). (paraphrasing here)Praise God, and we hope that we understand his will. We hope that our actions will be pleasing as we undertake what we hope is his service in Iraq. We pray that our soldiers come hop safely in victory. We pray in his name. Amen....
classic military nondenomiational prayer for the troops and victory. I've heard it a 1,000 times from Catholic Priests, Baptists, and Methodists....
Victoria said...Today, CNN's Wolf Blitzer had a Palin's Church story, where they showed Palin giving a speech inside her church referring to God and the war in Iraq.
The piece was worse than that. It was about Palin's ex-church and Pastor. The one she left because they were a bit too far out. Guess what Blitzer tried to paint them as a weird cult or tongues speakers.
I've heard the Palin Iraq speech. I would describe it in total as about what you'd expect from any Army Chaplain (as my wife phrased it earlier). (paraphrasing here)Praise God, and we hope that we understand his will. We hope that our actions will be pleasing as we undertake what we hope is his service in Iraq. We pray that our soldiers come hop safely in victory. We pray in his name. Amen....
classic military nondenomiational prayer for the troops and victory. I've heard it a 1,000 times from Catholic Priests, Baptists, and Methodists....
Victoria said...Today, CNN's Wolf Blitzer had a Palin's Church story, where they showed Palin giving a speech inside her church referring to God and the war in Iraq.
The piece was worse than that. It was about Palin's ex-church and Pastor. The one she left because they were a bit too far out. Guess what Blitzer tried to paint them as a weird cult or tongues speakers.
I've heard the Palin Iraq prayer. I would describe it in total as about what you'd expect from any Army Chaplain (as my wife phrased it earlier). (paraphrasing here)Praise God, and we hope that we understand his will. We hope that our actions will be pleasing as we undertake what we hope is his service in Iraq. We pray that our soldiers come home safely in victory. We pray in his name. Amen....
classic military nondenomiational prayer for the troops and victory. I've heard it a 1,000 times from Catholic Priests, Baptists, and Methodists....e.g. Win one for the Gipper.
Here is part of it: “Pray for our military. He's [Palin's son Trask] going to be deployed in September to Iraq. Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do also what is right for this country – that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That’s what we have to make sure we are praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”
(nto John Lynch)
Are there coordinated campaigns of disinformation? The planting of (dis)info bombs and disappearing before or as they go off? The removal of traces of the original posts? Searches for any remaining traces needing to be erased? Deployment of position guardians (mobys) who obfuscate the original sources? If such does exist, is it coordinated or merely viral?
Cool! Info wars made personal! A new tactic?
lOf course Drill Sgt and I are two old soldiers so our opinions probably dont count for much--you know, like the Col Blimps. But I can assure you that Drill Sgt is abolutely correct--thats the prayer that any military chaplain would give. Our chaplain corps, while affiliated with their demoninations are totally non denomination in the performance of their duties. They set a wonderful example of the ethos of service, to God and country--would more men and women of the cloth be like them.
Trumpit said...
Nothing of substance as usual. Norman Bates rides again.
Col Blimps
Love that film. Personal Top 10 Films ever made.
My mistake. From now on it's SuperAnn. It rhymes perfectly with Superman. There ought to be a comic strip in the works: SuperAnn, son of SuperAnn, etc.
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