Althouse: About that...

September 28, 2008

About that...

... bracelet.

141 comments:

Anonymous said...: No doubt NBC is all over it and will issue a story right away.; 9/28/08, 1:36 PM
Gene said...: How about that!! He was asked not to wear the soldiers bracelet by the family, but does wear it during the debate. Heh! Then cannot remember the soldiers name. That means that he wore it for political reasons only. Shame, shame on him.; 9/28/08, 1:39 PM
gefillmore said...: g.. d....it!-

I said I wasn't going to the comments anymore-

if he's doing this, and if his camp is behind the 'truth' squads or whatever in missouri, then obama is a freakin' asshole-

so much for not being personal-; 9/28/08, 1:39 PM
Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...: Yes, he's an asshole.

President Asshole to us come January, more likely than not.

*sigh*; 9/28/08, 1:46 PM
Roberto said...: Until I hear from the mother, I consider this to be the father's point of view...period:

"...the Mother doesn't even want to force the issue of telling Obama to stop exploiting her son because she wants to see him win the election."

Now what exactly is THAT supposed to mean...and is it the radio talk show host saying it or the author of the article?

At this point, this doesn't pass the smell test.; 9/28/08, 1:50 PM
vbspurs said...: President Asshole to us come January, more likely than not.

Stop it, Ben. Don't give in. Don't anyone give in.

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/28/08, 1:58 PM
vbspurs said...: Absolutely disgraceful, if true. But I'll hold my fire until it's proven true.

Had to be a Wisconsin connexion though, right? The same NPR station which Ann knows well, at that.; 9/28/08, 1:59 PM
Dr Dre's Underpants said...: You know he will lose. Millions and millions of white folk will be in that voting booth and say "Should I vote for the black guy?"

You know how they will answer.; 9/28/08, 2:01 PM
UWS guy said...: McCain and Obama are both wrong. Dead foot soldiers don't get to determine what the military objectives of our nation should be.

McCain was crass in bringing it up, Obama clearly wasn't planning on mentioning his (which is why he had to search for the name) whereas McCain obviously planned to use his bracelet in the debate which is why the name was handy.

You are all suprised of course by my reaction to blame McCain for the fooforall.; 9/28/08, 2:08 PM
vbspurs said...: You know how they will answer.

People are more concerned with the emptiness of his suit, than the colour of his skin.; 9/28/08, 2:09 PM
vbspurs said...: BTW, bracelets are yesterday's news.

Obama has his own Presidential portrait now.; 9/28/08, 2:09 PM
UWS guy said...: In fact. Since this radio bit just appeared out there, it is clear the republicans had been holding on to the audio all this time.

McCain probably brought up his bracelet in order to force Obama to mention his, and then miraculously, BOOM audio of the father gets dropped the next day; 9/28/08, 2:11 PM
vbspurs said...: You know there's a grassy knoll coming.; 9/28/08, 2:14 PM
UWS guy said...: Obama stumbling over the name clearly shows he had no intention of using the bracelet.

McCain was prepared and used it in an ugly cindy sheehan-esque way.

I'm pro Iraq-war, but dead soldiers mothers wishes are not the rational to continue.; 9/28/08, 2:17 PM
Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...: Stop it, Ben. Don't give in. Don't anyone give in.

Some days...

Well, McCain's been in tougher spots before, both in politics (a year ago) and outside politics (forty years ago).

So we'll see.; 9/28/08, 2:20 PM
UWS guy said...: Keating 5 wasn't 40 years ago ben.; 9/28/08, 2:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Here is a link to the father speaking on Wisconsin public radio.

I'm linking to it-deaf so to speak because the computer I am on now has no audio-but I thought others might be interested.

ABC's Jack Tapper is covering it and it seems almost to be the same case as that other family where the mom went around standing on her son's coffin-like a soapbox as if she owned him-even though he was an adult capable of making his own decisions and having his own values.

[Not like she honored any of that...]

Hell I can't remember her name I am blanking-such is life.

Anyways when you sign up for ther military-everbody owns you-even after you are dead.

here is the link-

link; 9/28/08, 2:26 PM
Palladian said...: "Hell I can't remember her name I am blanking-such is life."

Cindy Sheehan. She might be replacing Diane Feinstein one of these days.; 9/28/08, 2:29 PM
gefillmore said...: there's an inherent problem when going to the polls to vote for someone white versus someone black, at least for me-

the black person is usually very liberal, or a liberal pretending to be a moderate in order to get more votes-

now, if you had powell, or thomas, or sewell, or rice...

but I guess they're not really black, are they-

I have no problems voting for a black-

I voted for obama as an anti-hillary vote in the primaries-

with what I know now, though, I would have not done that-

I look for character and ideology, not color or sex or party affiliation-; 9/28/08, 2:35 PM
vbspurs said...: George wrote:

I look for character and ideology, not color or sex or party affiliation-

I had a bit of a cathartic moment when Sarah Palin was rolled out on August 29th. I found myself crying that a woman like me, was about to be the Republican nominee as Vice-President.

I had always scoffed, and pooh-poohed people when they spoke about such emotions.

But I get it now.

So I don't look in askance at black Americans when they look at Obama and see themselves reflected back. It seems to be a primordial pull, wedged deep in our psyche that we are most involved, when we see someone like us in trouble or in victory.

I'd just like to note that I never ever felt this way for Hillary Clinton. She was a woman yes, but she didn't represent me at all.

Sarah Palin was a woman, but it was very secondary to her being a Republican.

I just don't see that as much with black Americans and Obama, even though we have to note that that 90%, so Soviet-like in unanimity, reflects only the primaries.

Maybe it'll be only 87% in the presidential...

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/28/08, 2:46 PM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/28/08, 2:58 PM
Unknown said...: I love how you just jump on this story with such schadenfreude. Too bad it's a load of nonsense. We have this guy (who opposes Obama) saying that his ex-wife (who supports Obama) told him that she told Obama not to wear the bracelet anymore.

You know what we call that in the law? Inadmissible double hearsay. And there's a reason for that...

Quite notably, as is the case with many of these conservative gotchas, the mp3 on their site doesn't work.

Yawn...

(I will say I thought Obama's mention of the bracelet was cheesy after McCain had mentioned it first); 9/28/08, 2:59 PM
Palladian said...: So only the mother has "absolute moral authority" to attest to the veracity of this story? I see.

Fuck you, dad. What do you know?; 9/28/08, 3:02 PM
blake said...: Keating 5 wasn't 40 years ago

You know, the interesting thing about the Keating 5 scandal is that there wasn't really any basis for him to be included in the scandal at all, but he was a Republican, and without him, it would have been all Democrats.

So the Democrats refused to let him out, and McCain was totally exonerated, declared "honest", even by the Dem running the show--how many politicians could you say that for--but the key goal was accomplished.

By including him as one of the five, anti-McCain hacks can tar him as though the exoneration never occurred. They can just say the magic words "Keating 5" and this, somehow, scores a point.

It's that will-to-power thing: If we say it often enough, it's true.; 9/28/08, 3:17 PM
Beth said...: Absolutely disgraceful, if true. But I'll hold my fire until it's proven true.

I agree, VB, on both counts. Palladian, what's with the "moral authority" snark? Only the mother has the credibility to attest to what she said to Obama. You're putting an inaccurate spin on that simple fact. The ex-husband's second-hand statements may or may not be true. Only the mother can confirm or refute them.; 9/28/08, 3:21 PM
Synova said...: I didn't manage to hear the thing... I thought the father was saying he didn't want Obama using his son that way and said Mom agreed.

Is that not it?

But Mom won't say that she asked him not to, or wished he wouldn't, because she wants Obama to win.

And then Michael saying something implying that it's not up to Dad anyhow, it's up to Mom, and she gets the last word.; 9/28/08, 4:10 PM
Unknown said...: Palladian,

Maybe you don't get what the story is. The story has nothing to do with the dad. The story is that the mom gave the bracelet to Obama, he used it as a political tool, and she told him to stop but he didn't. The dad is not involved.

Now, if your point is that the dad should have the right to be upset about Obama's using this bracelet in this way, then you are right. But that's a different issue and not what the story's about at all.

Thanks for playin!; 9/28/08, 4:10 PM
Synova said...: Only the mother can confirm or repute what she asked or didn't ask.

But in all this, is the father really not giving his own opinion about the use of his son?

Or is this not the soldier's father being interviewed?; 9/28/08, 4:12 PM
Daniel12 said...: A woman's ex-husband is not always her most reliable spokesman.; 9/28/08, 4:16 PM
Brian Doyle said...: People are more concerned with the emptiness of his suit, than the colour of his skin.

I don't know what people you're referring to, Vicky, but American voters (the people who spell "color" without a u) actually seem satisfied that his suit contains a preferable presidential candidate to John McCain.

But keep trying to cheer up your demoralized troops from Buckinghamshire or wherever you live. It's fun to watch.; 9/28/08, 4:16 PM
Trooper York said...: So are the Mets.; 9/28/08, 4:21 PM
Unknown said...: The father is giving his opinion, but he does not claim to have communicated his opinion to Obama. So how would he know?

Also, it strikes me that if you are against Obama's use of this bracelet, you should be against McCain's as well.; 9/28/08, 4:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Palladian-

Oh ya crap-that's the name.

Senator Sheehan...

The world really will have gone to the Kos.; 9/28/08, 4:43 PM
Trooper York said...: Of course the Yankees had a tough year. We have a lot of guys who aren't true Yankees. Like A-Rod.

You know what the best description of A-Rod would be.

A guy that votes "Present" with runners in scoring position.; 9/28/08, 4:47 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Sounds like the mother gave Obama the bracelet just as Obama said, but that the anti-Obama ex-husband got pissed at her and they had an argument about it.

Anyway, McCain's the one who played the bracelet card, so he's the bigger ass.; 9/28/08, 4:48 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Of course your Yankees had a tough year. My lil Indians kicked Yankee butt in last year's ALDS so severely that the Yankees over-reacted and lost Joe Torre. Joe's back in the playoffs, of course. And while my Indians were big screw ups this year, too (they pulled the plug on the season too early, IMO), it's comforting to know that the ass-whopping the Indians did the the Yankees last year was like Luke Skywalker exploding the Death Star. Now the Yankees are just another team.; 9/28/08, 4:51 PM
Trooper York said...: I think all of our politicians should be wearing bracelets.

The kind that hook behind the arms for the perp walk.; 9/28/08, 4:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Speaking of which they probably have twenty different bracelets up their sleeve and just pull out the one that will be the best trick at the moment...; 9/28/08, 4:55 PM
Anonymous said...: vbspurs said...So I don't look in askance at black Americans when they look at Obama and see themselves reflected back. It seems to be a primordial pull, wedged deep in our psyche that we are most involved, when we see someone like us in trouble or in victory.

I just don't see that as much with black Americans and Obama, even though we have to note that that 90%, so Soviet-like in unanimity, reflects only the primaries.

Maybe it'll be only 87% in the presidential...

With all due respect you are out of your fuckin mind. There is NO way McCain is going to pull 13% of the black vote. Or 10% or even 5%.

Obama will win 97%!!!! of the black vote. And I might be understating it.

And the White liberal media will not make it an issue of black racism or prejudice or whatever.

Instead they will say - "Why do Republicans hate African American People of Wonderfulness so much that they forced them to vote overwhelmingly for the Democrat".

"Why America, Why?"; 9/28/08, 4:57 PM
Anonymous said...: Yellow to show you care about guys with only one testicle.

Pink to show you care about boobs.

Green for glaobal warming.

Orange for testicles again but only the Vietnam veterans...; 9/28/08, 4:59 PM
Anonymous said...: wait..that's probably prostates.; 9/28/08, 5:01 PM
TWM said...: "I don't know what people you're referring to, Vicky, but American voters (the people who spell "color" without a u) actually seem satisfied that his suit contains a preferable presidential candidate to John McCain."

About half of them don't, Doyle, and probably still won't come election day even if Barry wins.; 9/28/08, 5:02 PM
TWM said...: "Anyway, McCain's the one who played the bracelet card, so he's the bigger ass."

Please, McCain at least wears it with some legitimacy. Barry, not so much.; 9/28/08, 5:03 PM
Brian Doyle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/28/08, 5:04 PM
LoafingOaf said...: How's that Sarah Palin working out for the right wingers here? LOL What a disaster for McCain.; 9/28/08, 5:06 PM
Palladian said...: "How's that Sarah Palin working out for the right wingers here? LOL What a disaster for McCain."

Yeah, women should know their place, which is in the home.; 9/28/08, 5:08 PM
Palladian said...: Seriously, PinchinLoaf, are you Andrew Sullivan? You can't stop thinking about Sarah Palin, can you? Does she stalk your damp nightmares wearing a red bathing suit? Does she plant the heel of her shoe on your testes again and again? Can you eat a sandwich without thinking of Sarah Palin?

This campaign will be over one day. But, Like Andrew Sullivan, Sarah will never leave you.; 9/28/08, 5:10 PM
LoafingOaf said...: d, why do you say Obama's not wearing it with legitimacy? The mother did indeed give it to him. He wasn't gonna bring it up in the debate, except McCain annoyed him by going on about his bracelet. All Obama was saying was that politicians on both sides of the debate have mothers coming up to them with bracelets. Everyone can play that game and it doesn't prove a thing.

So, McCain's the bigger clown. Obama was just shutting his silly emotional tactic up.; 9/28/08, 5:13 PM
Palladian said...: I bet Sarah Palin wears bracelets too.; 9/28/08, 5:13 PM
Palladian said...: "Obama was just shutting his silly emotional tactic up."

So you admit that Obama was just using the dead soldier's bracelet as an emotionless political prop to shut McCain up? Now we're getting somewhere!; 9/28/08, 5:14 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Palladian: LOL, it must be very upsetting for you that Andrew Sullivan was right about Palin.; 9/28/08, 5:16 PM
Cedarford said...: Bush has a whole bagful of "props" - dead cop badges, the braclet of a dead soldier, various "heroes" he dredges up for a speech to affirm his policies..."I want no challenge to the War in Iraq - just like the family here of the dead WTC firefighter hero "Suds" O'Shanahan - and any that therefore are against me dishonors this family...."

Reagan loved props in his audience. Clinton waved pictures of dead Comumbine kids when he went for more gun bans, and "disease of the week kids" showcased with his trademark voice cracking and lip quivering when he wanted more "caregivers" and less "unecessary military". John Kerry traveled around with the WTC "Jersey Girls", another dead cop badge, and his "Band of Brother" props and used "Mad Max" Cleland as a stumpy prop against the evil, Bush-Hitler.

I don't find many areas of agreement with UWS Guy, but he is right that McCain planned to use his "Dead Soldier" prop in debate to insinuate that anyone that opposes John McCain's Iraq vision is a "heartless uncaring bastard" to the pro-War victim's family. McCain initiated the "prop" display.

Obama just matched him prop for prop and ruined McCain's attempt to use a dead soldier to claim his policy was morally superior to Obama's. (Apparantly Obama might want a cleaner "dead soldier" prop to match McCains "victim family" - one where the Dad as well as the Mom thinks Iraq was a bad idea - that shouldn't require too much looking)

It's a good strategy. Match your opponent prop for prop until this nasty ploy aimed at emotionally manipulating audiences is abandoned.; 9/28/08, 5:16 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Palladian: Well, they're both politicians, so duh. But it was McCain who played the bracelet card. Obama just replied to it.

Oh, and btw, judging by the polls it appears that Obama won the debate, no? Maybe Sarah Palin will save the day in her debate? LOL....

EVERYONE'S tuning in to the VP debate. With popcorn. We're gonna see a trainwreck on live TV!; 9/28/08, 5:19 PM
Synova said...: Sure they have, Doyle. It's just a total mystery of why they do. Labor unions kept black men from any job but Pullman Porter before they were forced to accept black members, making it near impossible for black men to support their families or get ahead. Many black Americans are strongly religious people who believe in a traditional Christian morality. For any segregationist episode that can be tied to one party there's another tied to the other party... it's just really not true that Democrats have the high ground on that.

So what about the Democratic party seems to subsume whole entire groups of people who presumably have diverse and disparate opinions about how government and the economy works?

Is it simply that the Democratic party *presents itself* as representing the interests of identity groups? Lord knows I've heard for my whole life that Democrats represented women, somehow.

And now, well, black Republicans aren't really "black" and women Republicans aren't really "women."

For someone in a group smaller than "women" the prospect of being shunned by the group might very well be strong enough to effectively discourage dissent.; 9/28/08, 5:21 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: I think all of our politicians should be wearing bracelets.

The kind that hook behind the arms for the perp walk.

They could march them to the Federal court house through the snowy streets of DC on a cold Christmas eve morn.; 9/28/08, 5:34 PM
Palladian said...: "Oh, and btw, judging by the polls it appears that Obama won the debate, no? Maybe Sarah Palin will save the day in her debate? LOL...."

I don't know, I don't think it's possible to "win" a "debate" such as that.

But interesting to note that your entire philosophical outlook seems to be driven by polls and a morbid terror over Sarah Palin.

I know that vagina dentata is just a mythological construct, but I'm beginning to wonder. Did a vagina bite your dick off at some point? It would explain a lot.

LOL, as you seem fond of typing.; 9/28/08, 5:40 PM
Synova said...: The bracelet thing is like the flag lapel thing...

You can do it or not, but if you don't the only real bad move is to explain about how you don't do it on *principle* because it's just false patriotism.

I don't *do* the little ribbon pins for every last thing or the flag pins or, certainly not, the rubber bracelets for every cause under the sun. If I buy the pink kitchen stuff at Target it will because I get a kick out of the pink colour and not because I want to advertise to everyone that part of my purchase price went to breast cancer research (I'm assuming! because it's pink.)

If I wore pins and bracelets and tended toward political statements, subdued or otherwise, on my body... then it would be authentic. Since I don't, it's not.

But I recognize that other people do those things because it makes them feel good to do it.

Which is different from doing so because other people will notice that you do it... like driving the Prius around town to be sure no one misses seeing you in it.

And, actually, I do have a bracelet. It's a red one with the name of a Lieutenant in the Air Force, MIA in Vietnam on it. I wore it for a while when I was in AFROTC and I never thought it did him any good but I did think about what it meant in relationship to military service and what it meant to be missing; not to be brought home again. To be sure it was a sort of combination to us in our off-sized cadet uniforms, of a reminder of our mortality and of our responsibility not to leave anyone behind, ever.

What are these new bracelets supposed to signify? Did McCain and Obama have a Lance Armstrong one too?; 9/28/08, 5:45 PM
Palladian said...: "EVERYONE'S tuning in to the VP debate. With popcorn. We're gonna see a trainwreck on live TV!"

Yes, like that night in 1929 when President Roosevelt went on TV and tried to reassure a frightened nation. "This is like watching an Acela train plow into an SUV" said one man to a reporter from the New York Journal American as he watched the speech.; 9/28/08, 5:47 PM
vbspurs said...: I bet Sarah Palin wears bracelets too.

They're trying to Stockdale Sarah Palin, Palladian.

Only the twist is that they've gone after her seconds after she opened her big mouth in Dayton, and not allowed her to put her foot into it, during the debate.

I cannot WAIT for this debate. It's going to be a nightmare for Democrats since they've set the bar lower than at a luau dance.

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/28/08, 6:05 PM
Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...: I cannot WAIT for this debate. It's going to be a nightmare for Democrats since they've set the bar lower than at a luau dance.

Victoria --

I really hope it's so, because right now I'm feeling about as low about the chances of the McCain-Palin ticket as I was... well, right before SP's boffo convention address...; 9/28/08, 6:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Blogger Ben (The Tiger) said...I really hope it's so, because right now I'm feeling about as low about the chances of the McCain-Palin ticket as I was... well, right before SP's boffo convention address...

Keep Hope Alive Ben.

Remember, there are large numbers of people out there who wont vote for a black guy, a Muslim or a guy with hair plugs.

Oh sure they wont admit it but we must have faith that they are still out there.

That said I still expect Palin to do about as well in the debate as she did talking to Couric.

I wont be watching. Too nervous and I don't drink.; 9/28/08, 6:51 PM
Anonymous said...: I thought it a bit maudlin of McCain to use the bracelet to score debate points but then I almost fell out of my chair laughing at obama countering with his devotion for er..ah.. Sgt.Hoozits er somethin' who obama thinks about every day too, 24/7. infinity, NEENER NEENER!; 9/28/08, 6:51 PM
gefillmore said...: franklin roosevelt was not president in 1929-; 9/28/08, 7:18 PM
Trooper York said...: Shush George. Don't tell Joe Biden that. He saw him on television riding a unicorn fighting barbarians while wearing chaps an a cowboy hat.; 9/28/08, 7:41 PM
UWS guy said...: "MILWAUKEE (AP) - The mother of a Wisconsin soldier who died in Iraq says she was "ecstatic" when Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama mentioned during Friday's debate the bracelet she gave him in honor of her son."

..."
"I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet," she said.

Jopek acknowledged e-mailing the Obama campaign in February asking that the presidential candidate not mention her son in speeches or debates. But she said Obama's mention on Friday was appropriate because he was responding after Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, said a soldier's mother gave him a bracelet."

Debate over.; 9/28/08, 7:59 PM
UWS guy said...: Which is why this is the first we've heard of Obama's bracelet.; 9/28/08, 7:59 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Joe Biden:
"My opponent is too young to remember, but it is in the history books, if she ever cared to look. Harry Truman sent a podcast to assure the nation that the Korean war was just."; 9/28/08, 8:07 PM
Palladian said...: "Debate over."

Sorry, honey. You don't get to set the rules of the "debate". In fact, what the hell is the debate anyway? No matter what anybody's mother says, Obama still looked like a douche-bag when he pulled his "I have a bracelet too!" thing and then couldn't even remember whose it was. I'm not a particular fan of this sort of cheap political theatrics, and I wasn't pleased that McCain did it either, but Obama looked even stupider. And now the mother has used her "absolute moral authority" to forgive Obama for breaking a promise he made not to use her dead son as a political prop. Wonderful.

I'm glad there's nothing more important going on in the country or world to worry about than this kind of silly shit.; 9/28/08, 8:23 PM
Palladian said...: "Which is why this is the first we've heard of Obama's bracelet."

Yes. Obama was too honorable to break the promise he made to the mother of the soldier. That is, until it became politically advantageous for him to do so. What a man of honor is that Barack!; 9/28/08, 8:25 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Palladian,
Please do not use the word honor and Obama in the same sentence. It is demeans and cheapens the word honor.; 9/28/08, 8:28 PM
UWS guy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/28/08, 8:40 PM
UWS guy said...: Anyway, Althouse needs to update the post.; 9/28/08, 8:43 PM
Donn said...: Palladian:
I'm not a particular fan of this sort of cheap political theatrics, and I wasn't pleased that McCain did it either, but Obama looked even stupider.

Exactly my sentiment as well (though shouldn't it be "more stupid?" 8^); 9/28/08, 8:48 PM
Anonymous said...: I went to a football game last night in a town where just a few years ago, there was a sign at the edge of town that read, "N****R, don't the let sun go down on you in [name of town]." One of the "coaches" of our team is a black guy, about 60 years old. All the coaches let him do is run errands for them. Last night, it was raining, so he was constantly drying off the ball between plays.

I thought about who he was voting for, and honestly couldn't blame him, if he's going to vote for Obama. For him, that's tangible evidence that things are getting better. Here's a guy who's stuck in a Southern, bigoted town, Uncle Tomming himself through life. That truly must suck. It's a chance for him to gain some dignity.

I still don't want Obama to win. I still think it's racist to vote for him for no other reason than the color of his skin. But, I can understand the temptation.; 9/28/08, 8:54 PM
Palladian said...: "Exactly my sentiment as well (though shouldn't it be "more stupid?" 8^)"

I wanted to sound stupider.; 9/28/08, 9:04 PM
LoafingOaf said...: "MILWAUKEE (AP) - The mother of a Wisconsin soldier who died in Iraq says she was "ecstatic" when Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama mentioned during Friday's debate the bracelet she gave him in honor of her son."

..."
"I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet," she said.

Jopek acknowledged e-mailing the Obama campaign in February asking that the presidential candidate not mention her son in speeches or debates. But she said Obama's mention on Friday was appropriate because he was responding after Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, said a soldier's mother gave him a bracelet."

Debate over.

Looks like my take in this thread has been vindicated 100%. Thanks for posting the truth, UWS. Yes, Althouse needs to update her post. So does Michelle Malkin and all the others jumping on this crap to divert from McCain's free-fall in the polls.; 9/28/08, 9:07 PM
Palladian said...: Watch out, PinchingLoaf, Sarah Palin's pussy might bite your ass.; 9/28/08, 9:10 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Obama still looked like a douche-bag when he pulled his "I have a bracelet too!" thing and then couldn't even remember whose it was.

You have no real evidence he couldn't remember the name. He stuttered a bit over his rank, if my memory is correct, because he wanted to make sure he wasn't gonna gaffe it.

What his stutter told me is that he wasn't planning on bringing up the bracelet at all in the debate, unlike John McCain (who rehearsed his playing of the bracelet card). Thus, this makes Obama's wearing of the bracelet more sincere.; 9/28/08, 9:10 PM
Palladian said...: "Thus, this makes Obama's wearing of the bracelet more sincere."

LOL, as you would say.

Anyway, remember my warning. Sarah Palin's pussy might sneak up behind you. You think you're safe because The Messiah's doing well in some polls but that might all be a Sarah Palin ruse to lull you into complacency...

When you're least expecting it...

SNAP!; 9/28/08, 9:13 PM
LoafingOaf said...: I don't know what palladian's going on about, pussies pinching asses and so forth. What a weird dude. I guess he's trying some tactic where anyone who criticizes Palin is "afraid of strong women" or is "sexist". Just like the Clintonoids would do with Hillary.

No, we attack Palin because she's entirely unfit for the vice presidency. Every time she gives an interview it's clear she doesn't know the the hell she's talking about. Apparently (Andrew Sullivan has a post on this) the rehearsals for her debate have been so disastrous the McCain camp is freaking out. Now, maybe one might think this isn't true, or that McCain's camp is trying to set the bar extra low for her. But anyone who has watched her very few TV interviews has seen that this woman has no business being on the ticket. Completely out of her depth.

I was angry and sad that McCain was pressured by the Religious Right into choosing her. I felt he blew the entire campaign for a short bounce in the polls and to kiss the butt of the religious freaks. Now that I see Obama will win the election with ease, I guess I chould just laugh at her as she goes down in flames. And, maybe it's a good thing that the Religious Right has revealed once and for all what they are about.; 9/28/08, 9:22 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Oh, and palladian, if you're gonna play the sexist card so much to protect Palin from scrutiny and criticism, you probably shouldn't call people "honey" when you reply to their posts.; 9/28/08, 9:23 PM
LoafingOaf said...: I think I made a most excellent point, palladian. Obama's stutter as he responded to McCain's bracelet B.S. showed that Obama was not planning to talk about, or ostentatiously display, the bracelet he was wearing. He wasn't planning on bringing up his bracelet at all, unlike McCain. So Obama's more sincere about his bracelet.; 9/28/08, 9:27 PM
Richard said...: AP has debunked the Article written by NewsBusters. The mother is ecstatic that Obama mentioned her son in the deate: Link below

http://www.nbc15.com/state/headlines/29864149.htm; 9/28/08, 9:31 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Thanks for the update, richard. Now, suddenly, all the right-wingers are MAD that the media did in fact look into the story and are publishing what they found out, and it turns out the mother felt happy Obama brought up the bracelet in order to respond to McCain's B.S. about his bracelet.

Doh!; 9/28/08, 9:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Read the entire explanation that's emerging. She acknowledged that in February she e-mailed Obama's campaign, asking that he refrain from using his name in speeches and debates. Now that she's getting her 15 minutes, looks like she's over her shyness. God help us, if we've got another Cindy Sheehan on our hands. Public bitterness is no way to process private grief.; 9/28/08, 9:43 PM
George M. Spencer said...: If you go away like I did this weekend on the Carnivial Fun Ship Elation on a 3-day cruise to the Islands you're not really in tounch wit this kind of issue. I'm in fact still a lizttle buzzy from all the alcohol. First I wasn not going to go becasue of the so-called economic panic, but then I learned if I cancelled my airplant itckets it woud cost me $600! So my wife I went. I haven't been on a place in years, and there was vomit in the back of the seat pocket. Vomit. And th sewaredess wouldn't do anything. Do you know if I had cancelled my cruise I would have given up all of my $249? We went to Hattie. Very pretty beach wear I wore = my NIkes. Someone said that the cruise ship was charging us $9.95 for each drink, but O I don't believe that r for the bottled water either. So anywhay we just got home and I"m a awaiting delivery on my big-falt screen TVs from Best Buy where I also got the new Rod Stewart best-of album, which is his sixth best of album. This one is remastered from the origianl pressing and has an unrelased take actoustic. I will write more later about how I won at roulette and my system for winning which is like on Wall Street but actually works and did the Mets win?; 9/28/08, 9:51 PM
Salamandyr said...: So what about the dad? Are his feelings unimportant now that they got the Mom's okay?; 9/28/08, 9:52 PM
Donn said...: Once again, the press has Obama's back.; 9/28/08, 9:55 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: So what about the dad? Are his feelings unimportant now that they got the Mom's okay?

According to the progressive doctrine, fathers do not count, have no rights, and should just STFU.; 9/28/08, 9:56 PM
LoafingOaf said...: windbag is leading the right wing smear campaign against the soldier's mother, now that she refuted the B.S. in the right-wing blogosphere.

wingbag, the mother's explanation for why she was okay with Obama's mention of her son and the bracelet in this debate made perfect sense.

She acknowledges e-mailing the campaign in February asking that Obama not mention her son in speeches or debates.

thus, she was not lookng for her 15 minutes.

But....

she says Obama's mention on Friday was appropriate because he was responding after Senator John McCain said a soldier's mother gave him a bracelet.

Jopek says Obama's comment rightfully suggested there's more than one viewpoint on the war.

Wel, there ya go. The right-wing blogosphere asked the media to look into the story and give it coverage, and they did. Now they're mad at the truth and will trash the mother.

Obama was not gonna mention the bracelet (respecting the mother's wishes), but then McCain pulled out his B.S. The mother agreed with Obama that in that context it was appropriate for him to mention the bracelet he was wearing.; 9/28/08, 9:56 PM
LoafingOaf said...: I hope Althouse will update her post with the facts soon.

We know Michelle Malkin never will.; 9/28/08, 9:57 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Dailykos is laughing at the right-wing blogosphere over this.; 9/28/08, 10:11 PM
Donn said...: LaughingOaf,

The fact that you have now cited both Andrew Sullivan AND DailyKos gives you zero credibility.; 9/28/08, 10:21 PM
Palladian said...: "So what about the dad? Are his feelings unimportant now that they got the Mom's okay?"

Mothers have ABSOLUTE MORAL AUTHORITY. Don't forget.

"Dailykos is laughing at the right-wing blogosphere over this."

Wow! What a development! That's so unusual! In other news, Bill O'Reilly yelled during an interview, Jon Stewart was a smarmy, ironic asshole, Glenn Reynolds said "heh", and LoafingOaf checked under his bed to make sure Sarah Palin wasn't hiding there.; 9/28/08, 10:24 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Donn: So you disagree that the right-wing blogosphere has egg on its face over this story? Explain, as we wait for Althouse to update her post with the facts.; 9/28/08, 10:25 PM
LoafingOaf said...: palladian's still going on about Palin's pussy. I guess we know for a fact he's been jerking off to her a lot these past few weeks. Me? I just don't think she's remotely qualified for the office she's running for.; 9/28/08, 10:28 PM
Anonymous said...: I wish to take this opportunity to apologize for poking sticks into the cages of the lefty inmates. It really is unkind and unfair of me to pick on them.

...but it's fun to watch them foam at the mouth and soil their knickers.

...oh...um...I'm sorry for that, too.; 9/28/08, 10:28 PM
Palladian said...: "palladian's still going on about Palin's pussy. I guess we know for a fact he's been jerking off to her a lot these past few weeks."

I'm a homosexual. But I'm not a woman hater. Which sets me apart from you and Andrew Sullivan in several ways, I guess.

It's one thing to dislike Sarah Palin. It's another thing to be absolutely batshit fucking obsessed with her. You are firmly in the Guano category.; 9/28/08, 10:33 PM
LoafingOaf said...: BTW: How much you wanna bet Palin's daughter's dude will call off the wedding after Palin loses this election? If anyone needs an extra reason to vote Obama, do it to liberate this kid from the shotgun wedding!; 9/28/08, 10:34 PM
Donn said...: LO,

Yes, I disagree with how DKos characterizes everything! First, no one that I read was in any sort of "tizzy." In fact, everyone acknowledged that the mother was an Obama supporter.; 9/28/08, 10:35 PM
Brian Doyle said...: Ann you should live up to Jonah Goldberg's standards and update this.

I love the first comment on the thread. NBC has a long way to fall before it hits NewsBusters territory.; 9/28/08, 10:42 PM
Palladian said...: "BTW: How much you wanna bet Palin's daughter's dude will call off the wedding after Palin loses this election? If anyone needs an extra reason to vote Obama, do it to liberate this kid from the shotgun wedding!"

May you one day be touch with the capacity to feel shame over how low you've sunk over a fucking election. Your party can lose an election and you can still survive. Eventually your party will win again. But if you lose your humanity and your soul over politics, those aren't so easy to regain.; 9/28/08, 10:42 PM
Palladian said...: And it's amazing to me that so-called liberals would be so willing to shuttle humanity and decency aside for the sake of politics. Maybe I'm just naive about liberal's priorities. It seems all the nutroots sorts of liberals care about anymore is power. May God have mercy upon us if they ever get it.; 9/28/08, 10:45 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Well, you're a homosexual voting for a woman who attends a church that tries to "heal" homosexuals from the sexual oritentation they were born with. If you believe in God, Palin must hate God - who created homosexuals - no?

But, again, the idea that one is a "woman hater" if one thinks Palin was an insulting choice for VP because she doesn't know a damn thing about world affairs (proven in each of her interviews) is absurd. We're weeks away from the election and we have every right to vet Palin, which you have a problem with.

Hey, if Palin had blown us all away with her wisdom and expertise, she'd have shut us all up. But the opposite happened. She was worse than we feared.

So you have to say I'm afraid of her pussy snapping my ass, whatever the fuck that meant. You have issues when it comes to Palin and her pussy. That's YOUR fixation. Weirdo.

These arguments don't really matter to me anymore, now that it's clear Obama will win with ease. The truth is I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Sarah Palin because it's looking like she'll become such a laughingstock in American politics that her entire political career will end. If she had wanted to be VP or President she should've taken the time to prepare and gain proper experience.

But I can't feel TOO sorry for Palin. She's gonna go back to Alaska and kill more moose, which is pretty cold-hearted.; 9/28/08, 10:49 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: LoafingOaf said...
Dailykos is laughing at the right-wing blogosphere over this.

The whole world laughs at Daily Kos. Aren't they the ones who Obama ordered to smear Palin? Progressives, the hate mongers.; 9/28/08, 10:51 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: If she had wanted to be VP or President she should've taken the time to prepare and gain proper experience.

Shelby Steele on what it means to be Obama.

“There is a price to be paid even for fellow-traveling with a racial identity as politicized and demanding as today’s black identity. This identity wants to take over a greater proportion of the self than other racial identities do. It wants to have its collective truth-its defining ideas of grievance and protest-become personal truth…. These are the identity pressures that Barack Obama lives within. He is vulnerable to them because he has hungered for a transparent black identity much of his life. He needs to ‘be black.’ And this hunger—no matter how understandable it may be—means that he is not in a position to reject the political liberalism inherent in his racial identity. For Obama liberalism is blackness.”

How many vp's can you name off the top of you head?

It the top of the ticket stupid.; 9/28/08, 10:54 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Hey, palladian, I'm not a Democrat. I was going back and forth between Obama and McCain till McCain's campaign was taken over by the religious freaks who forced Palin on him. Palin, just because she didn't abort a Downs syndrome baby, looks "hot" with a gun, and eats mooseburgers. Oh, and cuz she can see Russia from Alaska.

And as an independent I don't feel any need to follow Obama's lead when Obama said to not say a word about Palin's family. Obama's a nice guy and has not attacked Palin's family at all. But, I can't help but be honest and say that I feel sorry for a kid being forced into a shotgun wedding because his girl's mom is suddenly running for VP.; 9/28/08, 10:55 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: I was going back and forth between Obama and McCain till McCain's campaign was taken over by the religious freaks..

You mean Muslims like Obama?; 9/28/08, 10:58 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Oh wait... sorry

you'r talking about Reverend Jeremiah Wright?; 9/28/08, 11:06 PM
LoafingOaf said...: lem: What's that? Obama is a Christian. I did see in the right wing blogospehere today that the same high-ranking right wing blog (Ace of Spades - often linked to by Instapundit) that attacks Andrew Sullivan because he's gay and has AIDS is today posting some smear about Obama being a Muslm again. Some document from when Obama was such a small child that Obama obviously was not able to choose a religion yet.

Obama chose Christianity as his faith. He's attended churches for decades. But you right wingers keep on with your smear tactics.

Smear tactics are all you've got left when you're sweating over Sarah Palin's upcoming debate where she'll make a fool of herself on the issues.; 9/28/08, 11:07 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Yup, everyone's circling the date of the VO debate on their calendars. The train wreck on live TV! Pop some popcorn and buckle up!; 9/28/08, 11:10 PM
LoafingOaf said...: VO=VP; 9/28/08, 11:10 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: But you right wingers keep on with your smear tactics.

Hey.. Barry could have changed his names anytime he wanted to.

But he did not.

He is a closet muslim!; 9/28/08, 11:11 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Well, anyway, Althouse is apparently busy tonight, but I trust she'll update her post with the facts soon.; 9/28/08, 11:13 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: but I trust she'll update her post with the facts soon.

Look I've resigned myself, we'r going to have a POTUS named after one of the worlds worst dictators of all time.

It could be worst I suppose ;); 9/28/08, 11:16 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Smear tactics are all you've got left when you're sweating over Sarah Palin's upcoming debate where she'll make a fool of herself on the issues.

Palin has been smeared by the Obama campaign from day one. All the progressive sites got their marching orders and money. No candidate has ever been smeared as much as this poor woman.

BTW, I have not heard Joe Biden correcting his statements about FDR addressing the nation in 1929 on TV...; 9/28/08, 11:18 PM
Donn said...: LaughingOaf:
But you right wingers keep on with your smear tactics.

You mean like....who really is Trig's mother?; 9/28/08, 11:22 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Here is the thing about liberals. If you are an AA (person of colour) religion is a good thing.

But if you are not an AA (African American peson of color) religion is baaaaad.

It takes a foreigner sometimes to recognise these tranches. No?; 9/28/08, 11:31 PM
Roger J. said...: Speaking strictly as a Colonel Blimp type, some of the comments here make me regret having fought and shed blood. Your military fights for a far different reason than many of you think. Not worth my time or effort to try to explain it.; 9/29/08, 12:08 AM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Your military fights for a far different reason than many of you think.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

George Orwell

http://tinyurl.com/42x2an; 9/29/08, 12:16 AM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: There was a dictator in DR. (yes I know.. he may have lasted as long as he did BeCause of the US)

But that's not who we (I'm a US citizen) are now...The Iraq intervention to the contrary.

How do I know?

My father moved mountains to get us here, and so are many people we know.

Some people can never move past a history, and some people can and do.; 9/29/08, 12:40 AM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: When Obama says 'yes we can'... I think he means yes we can move past our history if and once I'm elected...

The thing about unwriten. hand shake deals is that you have no idea what you may or may not have agreed to...

That's when Ann's students come in ;); 9/29/08, 12:47 AM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Here is a little taste..

http://www.bloggernews.net/117928

Mind you, this is what he can do with a made up POTUS seal..

http://tinyurl.com/3on7mq

What could Obama do with the real one?; 9/29/08, 12:55 AM
amba said...: You know there's a grassy knoll coming.

I can't believe you said that, V.

I'm now an ex-undecided, having decided to vote for McCain. But as someone who still has political PTSD from the assassinations of 1968 and believs they were the proximate cause of a lot of crap the country needlessly went through thereafter, I can tell you that would be the worst possible thing for this country. (In fact, I hope the bloom is off Obama enough to make him much less of a magnet for crazies.)

I don't know, maybe you can joke about it because you're a Brit. But it's bad karma, kiddo.; 9/29/08, 2:04 AM
amba said...: If being an asshole merited the death penalty, what a depopulated world this would be.; 9/29/08, 2:04 AM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/29/08, 2:11 AM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: If being an asshole merited the death penalty, what a depopulated world this would be.

My guess is Roe is silent on whether or not a fetus has an asshole..

If anybody knows.. the supremes must know..; 9/29/08, 2:16 AM
blake said...: Actually, I thought Victoria was referring to the spinning of conspiracy theories, not to the likelihood of assassination.

But then, I don't always get her.; 9/29/08, 2:40 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Update this post? It's automatically updating. Click the link.

My personal opinion is that the mother and father seem to have a different view of this. They are divorced and one supports McCain and the other Obama. I don't like seeing a family squabble go public like this, and I'm sure Obama won't mention that bracelet again. So what's left to be said? Too much has been said already.; 9/29/08, 7:24 AM
amba said...: Well, if I got V wrong, I apologize.; 9/29/08, 10:05 AM
Matt said...: Ann
At least have the courtesy to update your post to include the mother's response.
"His response in the debate was exactly that, a response, after John McCain put it out there first," she said. "I think it was an appropriate response — he was just saying there's another side to the story, there's two different viewpoints."
"I think he knew my intention, he understands it was a gesture between me and Sen. Obama," she said. "It was just little piece of peace for us. I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet."; 9/29/08, 11:33 AM
AlphaLiberal said...: I read about this episode on another blog and thought to myself... "I'll bet ann Althouse is pushing the lying, right-wing version."

Sure enough!

And the wingers want to speak for this mother, insisting she can't speak for herself.

The mother of a Wisconsin soldier who died in Iraq says she was "ecstatic" when Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama mentioned during Friday's debate the bracelet she gave him in honor of her son.

Tracy Jopek of Merrill told The Associated Press on Sunday she was honored that Obama remembered Sgt. Ryan David Jopek, who was killed in 2006 by a roadside bomb.

Jopek criticized Internet reports suggesting Obama, D-Ill., exploited her son for political purposes.

"I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet," she said.

At least have the courtesy to update your post to include the mother's response.

Heh. Not likely. What would Glenn Reynolds say and how does that help Ann build traffic?; 9/29/08, 11:44 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I read about this episode on another blog and thought to myself... "I'll bet ann Althouse is pushing the lying, right-wing version." "

What bullshit!

I linked to Memeorandum, which gives a collection of links to all the blogs, on both sides, talking about this.

You owe me an apology.; 9/29/08, 1:29 PM
Matt said...: Ann
I don't see where Memeorandum linked any other version of this other than their hard right view. Anyway, the link is to Newsbusters, which is is anything but neutral or balanced.; 9/29/08, 2:40 PM
LoafingOaf said...: Althouse, people don't know what "Memeorandum" is. When they click on your link, this is what they see, in huge print:

Family Told Obama NOT To Wear Soldier Son's Bracelet... Where is Media? — Barack Obama played the “me too” game during the Friday debates on September 26 after Senator John McCain mentioned that he was wearing a bracelet with the name of Cpl. Matthew Stanley, a resident of New Hampshire …
+
Discussion: protein wisdom, The Corner, Wake up America, Hot Air, pw, Wizbang, www.redstate.com, Gateway Pundit, Atlas Shrugs, The Strata-Sphere, Right Wing News, The Campaign Spot and Michelle Malkin
RELATED:
Hindrocket / Power Line:
“THE STENCH OF POLICE STATE TACTICS”
Discussion: Little Green Footballs, The Corner, Israpundit and Don Surber
Allahpundit / Hot Air:
Missouri governor goes nuclear on Obama for using prosecutors …
Discussion: The Corner, The Volokh Conspiracy, Wizbang, The Strata-Sphere, Israpundit, Mother, May I Sleep …, Pajamas Media, protein wisdom, THE ASTUTE BLOGGERS and The Jawa Report

So, your post promoted the right-wing version of the story and links people to a zillion right-wing blogs that are lying.

Your link (still, today) only takes readers to the right-wing spin (which is inaccurate). No update whatsoever. Click on your own link and see what appears on one's screen before you ask Alpha to apologize.; 9/29/08, 3:29 PM
LoafingOaf said...: matt, it seems althouse doesn't check her own link before demanding apologies from alpha. it's pretty laughable when you read her reply to alpha and then go back to her link to remind yourself what it took us to.

she owes alpha an apology and ought to update her original post.; 9/29/08, 3:33 PM
LoafingOaf said...: At least have the courtesy to update your post to include the mother's response.

Until she does, this post stands as an example of Althouse helping the right-wing blogosphere spread propaganda and not being interested in fairness.; 9/29/08, 3:39 PM
Beth said...: Ann, your link to Memeorandum leads directly to the News Busters story, no where else. The News Busters story is purely the rightwing spin on this.

Nobody owes you an apology. You should have updated your blog post with the unfolding details.; 9/29/08, 4:15 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Memeorandum automatically collects links from a large range of blogs from across the spectrum. If that link is one sided, it's only because those are the only blogs writing about it. It's a completely nonpartisan link. I'm noting the controversy and making a place for people to discuss it in the most neutral possible way.

And I have a comment in the discussion here that shows I don't like the subject:

ann althouse said...
Update this post? It's automatically updating. Click the link.

My personal opinion is that the mother and father seem to have a different view of this. They are divorced and one supports McCain and the other Obama. I don't like seeing a family squabble go public like this, and I'm sure Obama won't mention that bracelet again. So what's left to be said? Too much has been said already.

So I repeat that I am owed an apology.; 9/29/08, 6:00 PM
Ann Althouse said...: More than 3 hours have passed since my last comments. Where is the apology I am owed? Huh? You were so sure that I needed to do something, but where are you when you need to do something?; 9/29/08, 9:23 PM
LoafingOaf said...: If that link is one sided, it's only because those are the only blogs writing about it.

Rubbish. Those aren't the only blogs that wrote about it. I saw several last night writing about it that countered the right-wing spin. Hell, even Simon's web site - Stubborn Facts - provided the balanced story. And some of the biggest blogs wrote about it in response to the right wing blogoshere and don't appear at that link at all.

Again, you need to take your own advice and click the link, so you stop making false claims about it.; 9/30/08, 12:31 AM