Althouse: Bill Maher: Christianity is "not mainly about doing the right thing or being ethical."

August 26, 2008

Bill Maher: Christianity is "not mainly about doing the right thing or being ethical."

"It's mainly about getting your butt saved when you die. And that's why I think they're less moral than ethicists."

Oh, yeah, like ethicists don't have ulterior motives.

49 comments:

Henry said...: Maher doesn't understand incentives.; 8/26/08, 11:45 AM
Tibore said...: Why is it that people holding the most carictatured version of Christianity are the ones most willing to spout off about it?; 8/26/08, 11:50 AM
Tibore said...: "Caricatured "! Blah, spelling... apologies... wish I could go back and edit posts.; 8/26/08, 11:52 AM
Unknown said...: You know, he's right; at least, his first sentence is. Christianity is not "mainly about" doing the right thing or being ethical. Never has been---and it is fundamental to the faith to acknowledge that: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us... If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."; 8/26/08, 12:00 PM
Dave in Tucson said...: Maher doesn't know what he's talking about.

"Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and persue it" -- Psalms 34:14 (KJV); 8/26/08, 12:01 PM
rhhardin said...: `We have just seen that the Messiah is the just man who suffers, who has taken on the suffering of others. Who finally takes on the suffering of others, if not the being who says ``Me [Moi]''?

``The fact of not evading the burden imposed by the suffering of others defines ipseity itself. All persons are the Messiah.''

Levinas, _Difficult Freedom_, p.89

Religion is a poeticization of the phenomenon of ethics.; 8/26/08, 12:05 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Bill Maher is only on TV because he is entertaining. He is a comedian. Why would any sane person even consider taking him seriously.; 8/26/08, 12:09 PM
kjbe said...: Jesus is coming, look busy.

Although a cynic, he's not that far from the truth.; 8/26/08, 12:15 PM
Unknown said...: Well its not possible to compare the aggregate actions of billions of Christians over 2000 years to those of the five or six self identified (and defined) "ethicists" over the course of human history.

Thankfully Christains don't need Bill Maher to point out their shortcomings. And yeah, he's clueless. Perhaps forgiveness doesn't meet his definition of "moral", but its keeping his head attached to his body.; 8/26/08, 12:21 PM
Palladian said...: I thought Christianity was "mainly about" accepting the divinity of Jesus Christ and committing your life to his worship?

You know, Jesus wasn't always "nice". There was an "inconvenient truth" behind his words and actions.; 8/26/08, 12:32 PM
ricpic said...: I thought Christianity was about getting your soul saved when you die.

Soul, butt: same thing to a debased degraded supremely hep guy.; 8/26/08, 12:36 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: !

Why is it that critics of Christianity are more ignorant than ever before?

I hear the most bigoted unfair things said about Christians. If he was talking about another religion the bigotry would be obvious.

This is a tired point but no less true for it.; 8/26/08, 12:37 PM
lurker2209 said...: Christianity really goes beyond ethics in a way Maher doesn't get. I think you can really sum up the entire book of Romans by saying; "People know they should be good; generally, they know what good is, but we all suck at actually being good. But if you let Jesus save you, he'll also change you so you can be good through him."

I've never met an ethicist who can really address what Paul said in Romans 7:19: "For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." (NIV)

Now a lot of Christians still screw this up and think they're supposed to try to be good themselves, but most of those Christians are miserable. I know I was. And sadly, many of them take out their misery on other people. And that is really the root of all of the excess of the 'religious right.'; 8/26/08, 12:45 PM
Salamandyr said...: Bill Maher is a superficial thinker. He has no interest in actually delving into a subject, learning the complexity behind the bumper sticker slogans he mistakes for facts, so he brays out things like "Chrisitanity is about getting your butt saved" (having no clue how that's accomplished, what that means, or the ramifications of that on a Christian and their actions), or "it takes more courage to hijack a plane than bomb people from 20,000 feet" (paraphrase I know, I don't have the exact quote) blissfully ignorant of the underlying moral code of the persons committing either act.

He's a monkey, flinging feces at those of us farther up the evolutionary ladder. Best to ignore him.; 8/26/08, 12:48 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: I thought Christianity was "mainly about" accepting the divinity of Jesus Christ and committing your life to his worship?

It is which only makes Maher look more idiotic than he already is.

I really wish the celebrity set would stick with what they're good at; acting, comedy, performance art or overdosing on designer drugs and booze and leave punditry for those who actually know what the hell they're talking about.; 8/26/08, 1:00 PM
P_J said...: Damn those Christians with their universities and hospitals and orphanages and abolitionism and relief societies and charitable giving and recovery programs and homeless shelters and after-school programs and job training and food pantries and maternity homes!

Why can't they be more like Bill Maher?!?; 8/26/08, 1:06 PM
Jeremy said...: Funny. I thought I was a Christian because I believed its tenents to accurately reflect reality - that is, because it's true. That's got rewards and consequenses, but don't put the cart before the horse.; 8/26/08, 1:06 PM
SGT Ted said...: What a completely stupid thing to say.; 8/26/08, 1:07 PM
Trumpit said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/26/08, 1:13 PM
Trumpit said...: Speaking of feces, why did God create it? How could a divine being even comtemplate something as disgusting as shit. I know just how disgusting it is because I swallowed my gold crown that accidentally fell out. I spent a week sifting through my feces until it finally showed up. So disgusting that I'll pay the grand to get a new crown made rather than go through "panning for gold." Of course we are all the product of a fuck or a test tube, and we all have digestive tracks that turn food into shit. We are simply animals.

When I asked a believer why God made shit, the answer came back instantly, "Fertilizer!" There is always an answer, no matter how lame it may be.

Religion is a means to avoid facing the fact that we are mere mortal animals. Your fate is oblivion same as every living thing from bacteria to bats in the belfry to batshit crazy monks. There is no heaven or hell, except that which is made on earth by natural forces, which includes good and bad acts of man. If your religion gives you solace, that's fine, but it's basic tenents have no basis in reality. Have some courage and dump your religion the next time you take a dump.; 8/26/08, 1:19 PM
UWS guy said...: If Jesus told you to suck off a dead male whore in order to receive "everlasting life" and to some how, magically, "live forever in heaven".

Christians would be obligated to do so.

"being saved" is a euphemism for "suspending the laws of nature and not having to die like everyone else".; 8/26/08, 1:20 PM
Salamandyr said...: If Jesus said something like that, he'd have to do it in a pretty obvious way, ie-come back down and hold a suck off on the mount or some such (apologies for the vulgarity). It would violate the revealed doctrine that has come before. Hell, he had to die and be resurrected to override the Mosaic Law.; 8/26/08, 1:29 PM
Roger J. said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/26/08, 1:31 PM
TMink said...: "Why is it that critics of Christianity are more ignorant than ever before?"

Where does one learn about Christianity? In Church! Where do people who do not go to church learn about Christianity? Bill Maher!

In this post Christian culture there are few opportunities to learn what we believe. And then there are lots of folk who are really quite antagonistic toward us. Some with due cause, and some are unhinged.

But my salvation is a done deal. I am obedient because I love Christ, not because I am afraid He will kick me out of the club. Christianity is a religion of grace, the works of loving kindness are a response out of gratitude, not fear.

Bill Maher is quite right to fear God, and it makes sense that he projects his fear onto me and us. For us, Jesus paid the debt and evened the score, so I no longer live with Bill's fear.

Trey; 8/26/08, 1:33 PM
TMink said...: UWS, where did the corporphillic bj come from? That was weird dude, out of beyond left field.

Actually, Christianity posits that all souls are eternal and everyone lives forever. The accomodations differ however, and that is the rub.

Trey; 8/26/08, 1:36 PM
UWS guy said...: ""Christian, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbors."; 8/26/08, 1:37 PM
Salamandyr said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/26/08, 1:43 PM
TMink said...: Trumpit wrote about my religion saying "but it's basic tenents have no basis in reality."

Jesus lived and died, there is non-religious confirmation of that. Now Christianity has a basic premise that we as finite human beings are unable to comprehend the full spectrum of live and forces and living entities. We accept that based on the evidence of our experience.

Like the spectrum, it would be foolish for the uninformed to deny the reality of infared or ultraviolet light because they have never seen it.

Finally, while I appreciate your statements and thoughts, have you given a thought to how much chutzpah it takes for you to define the way the world really is! I mean, wow, you are sure saying a lot in those blanket statements, you must be very very confident of yourself to know so much. I will not pretend to tell you about reality, but I can share my experience. It is interesting to me that you are proclaiming reality for me.

Trey; 8/26/08, 1:43 PM
Salamandyr said...: Mink, because the etymology amuses me, I think the word you're looking for would be "necrophiliac". "Corporphiliac" derived from corpus would be "love of body" which I imagine describes most of us.

Then there is "COPRO-philiac" which describes something else entirely :).; 8/26/08, 1:44 PM
UWS guy said...: Infrared/ultraviolet light = magic.; 8/26/08, 1:50 PM
Unknown said...: UWS: you aren't getting any closer to funny/smart/insightful. And those of us who have taken kids to church, have heard better arguements.; 8/26/08, 1:58 PM
Roger J. said...: Trumpit--no one will ever accuse you having either taste or class.; 8/26/08, 2:04 PM
Unknown said...: Religion is a means to avoid facing the fact that we are mere mortal animals.

Indeed. "For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men."; 8/26/08, 2:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Trumpit: Religion is a means to avoid facing the fact that we are mere mortal animals.

On the contrary; religion is a means to face the fact that we are mere mortal animals. The eschatological religions, such as Christianity, in particular. If there's one thing that Christians understand, it is that we are going to die. The Christian faith, like all eschatological religions, by definition, concerns itself with what happens next. In that regard, Bill Maher is precisely correct. Of course, discussing the ensuing 2,000 years of Christian exegesis and other scholarship would ruin his under-informative soundbite.; 8/26/08, 2:53 PM
Unknown said...: Paul, I believe that Trumpit holds the position that the is no "next". Hence religion that talks about any "next" besides "nothing" is avoiding.; 8/26/08, 3:23 PM
Mitch H. said...: Trumpit, you don't believe in *fertilizer*? What, you think manure is a conspiracy?

That doesn't even require religious faith, it's common sense.; 8/26/08, 3:54 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Trumpit gives scatology a bad name.; 8/26/08, 4:15 PM
UWS guy said...: "
Christianists have succeeded in getting an initiative on the Massachusetts ballot this fall, reinstating the 1913 law, inspired by fears of miscegenation, that bars out of staters getting married in the Commonwealth, it their own state doesn't recognize such marriages. Meanwhile, Christianists in Arkansas have put an initiative on the ballot, preventing children from being adopted or placed in foster homes by gay couples."

sorry...missing the morality there.; 8/26/08, 4:46 PM
Cedarford said...: Maher has good observations now and then, but epitomizes the smarmy self-righteousness of the Left.

He also likes to bash "safe targets" like Christians remorselessly, while only rarely and cautiously edging into criticism of groups that could inflict repercussions on his career in Hollywood or his bookings for shows. So 99% of his belittling is directed at Christians, 1% towards Jews and Muslims. Whites and white culture are 99% of his demeaning routine - blacks, latinos, Asians - 1%.; 8/26/08, 5:44 PM
Revenant said...: sorry...missing the morality there.

According to the Bible, God considers gay sex an abomination and marriage to be between men and women. Morality is defined, by Christians, as that which coincides with the will of God. Ergo, gay adoption is "adoption by disgustingly immoral individuals who deliberately oppose God's will" and gay marriage is an oxymoron.

As someone who considers God to be a fictional character that argument doesn't carry much weight with me. But a fairly large percentage of Christians really do care what God thinks. :); 8/26/08, 5:54 PM
Fen said...: Go easy on Maher. Its just business: he has to get invited to the right parties so he can get invited to the right casting couches.; 8/26/08, 6:33 PM
marklewin said...: Ann wrote:

Oh, yeah, like ethicists don't have ulterior motives.

Something I never would have considered in a multitude of lifetimes. Brilliant observation!; 8/26/08, 7:57 PM
UWS guy said...: Which goes back to my first post. If God told you to suck off a horse (por ejemplo) then does that make it "moral"?

Just because God told you to do it, doesn't make it good.; 8/26/08, 7:57 PM
Pastafarian said...: It's a pity that atheists find themselves represented by someone like Maher.

But...At the risk of bringing an avalanche of fisking down on my head: Are there very many religions that don't offer the promise of eternal life, but require ethical behavior of their adherents?

Isn't it odd that the vast majority of religions, and particularly the vast majority of successful, i.e. popular, religions, all offer this enormous reward?

It's enough to make one think that perhaps those religions that didn't include the offer of eternal life eventually fell by the wayside, to be replaced by more appealing faiths, in a process reminiscent of natural selection.

So I do agree with Maher, to a certain extent, on this: The promise of eternal life has contributed to the popularity of Christianity, just as much as its messages of forgiveness and redemption. Without the promises of eternal life and ultimate justice, Christianity would be a marginal or even obsolete belief.

Maher seems to think that individuals think to themselves: "I better get me some of that religion so's I can be saved." It's not that simple. But man's tendency to believe what he wants to believe, beyond all reason, certainly helps fill the pews.

Now, as far as ethical behavior goes: I've seen plenty of ethical and unethical behavior from both Christians and non-Christians, but many of the most just and decent people that I've known have been Christians. Still: The fact that they had the threat of eternal damnation hanging over their heads seems to detract from their just and decent behavior -- was it a result of their ethical character, or was it merely self-preservation?; 8/26/08, 8:16 PM
William said...: Just as a matter of science, how is possible to determine where the shit of Trompit begins and Trompit himself ends. It's one of those difficult theological questions that would vex the reasoning of Nancy Pelosi.; 8/26/08, 8:25 PM
rcocean said...: Why does anyone get upset at Bill "the Dog-face boy" Maher? How else can he get chicks or invited to the Playboy mansion?

Fortunately, he doesn't believe in marriage, so we don't have to worry about any obnoxious, stupid, dog faced kids running around.; 8/26/08, 9:26 PM
Synova said...: By grace we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves but it is a gift from God. (paraphrased by me)

So... no, you do not gain salvation by being good. Grace is not deserved favor, it's undeserved favor. You can not take any credit for your salvation.

That doesn't stop people from misunderstanding or trying, somehow, to deserve to be loved by God.

Christ died for us while we were sinners. Not after we shaped up and flew straight and got ethical and stopped sinning.

Amazingly enough (not) Christians get things wrong. Getting everything right is another thing that's not required for salvation. Being right about everything is something you would be buying salvation with, and that doesn't work.

It may be annoying when someone wants to save you, but there are worst things in the world than obnoxious Christians.

As for the horse thing goes... why not find something actually in the Bible to use as an example? The OT has some pretty harsh punishments for such things as disobedience to parents, and the midwives that saved Moses and others were apparently rewarded for lying. There is SO MUCH out there to point at.

Sexual sins or immorality are described as sins against your own flesh. Do you think you can hurt God by being a slut? God is God. But you can sure hurt your own self. How much pain and how much hurt to children is the direct result of infidelity? Not every person is hurt every time... so screw those who get messed up, I wanna have fun? That's ethical, sure it is.

You can convince me that some people just aren't attracted to the opposite sex and those people should be able to marry and even adopt children (since that's my view already) but you won't convince me that a "gay lifestyle" isn't actively harmful to a great many people. You can't convince me, even if our culture seems to be deluded into thinking that there are not emotional costs to free-sex, that it is actually good for girls to hook up for emotionally context-free sex. And while I'm glad that the BDSM folks take some organized care not to cause serious injury to each other you can't convince me that it's healthy for *anyone* to get off sexually on either dominating another person, raping them (even for pretend) or accepting that treatment from another human being. It's not healthy. It never will be.

The feeling of entitlement to physical gratification is not compatible with the Christian moral code. That feeling of entitlement causes more pain, more financial hardship, more neglect of children's emotional stability, than anything I can think of, and I'll include alcohol and drugs.

So sure... ask about a horse. Ask what if God told you to do it with a horse.

When what God says is that you should be the master of your own desires, and not the slave of them.; 8/26/08, 11:22 PM
Revenant said...: Just because God told you to do it, doesn't make it good.

It doesn't if you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Which most Americans are.; 8/27/08, 12:45 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Meanwhile, Christianists in Arkansas have put an initiative on the ballot, preventing children from being adopted or placed in foster homes by gay couples."

The initiative prevents foster children from being placed with any unmarried couples, not only gay couples. I would support it as I think foster children have enough to deal with without being thrown into uncommitted relationships, but there simply don't seem to be enough foster families, so I oppose the initiative.; 8/28/08, 7:52 PM