February 13, 2008

"Obama acted almost as the primaries were behind him, offering a case against the probable Republican nominee."

Adam Nagourney describes Barack Obama's speech in Madison last night, which turned out to be his victory speech as he won the Potomac primaries:
The sheer consistency of Mr. Obama’s victories over the last few days certainly suggests that many Democratic voters have gotten past whatever reservations they might have had about his electability or his qualifications to be president.

Mr. Obama, in his victory speech in Madison, Wis., acted almost as the primaries were behind him, offering a case against the probable Republican nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, as he spoke disparagingly of “Bush-McCain Republicans.” It amounted to a preview of what an Obama-McCain race might be like, and it reduced Mrs. Clinton, at least for one night, to the role of bystander.

“John McCain is an American hero,” Mr. Obama said before a huge, cheering crowd. “We honor his service to our nation. But his priorities don’t address the real problems of the American people, because they are bound to the failed policies of the past.”
So we know the theme of his fall campaign: Honor McCain but label him as "the past." Hillary Clinton can't make that argument. But there must be a corresponding theme for McCain.

Here's the local angle on the Madison speech in the Madison newspaper. Excerpt:
Obama came into the brightly lit arena shaking hands all around as loud music blared. The mostly student crowd was on its feet after waiting, in most cases, more than two hours for him to show up.

"This is how you guys do it in Madison?" Obama said, with an awkward pause before the name of the city. He said he was proud of Doyle's support and thanked Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett for driving to Madison. He twice botched Mayor Dave Cieslewicz's name while thanking him for endorsing him Tuesday.

74 comments:

SGT Ted said...

But his priorities don’t address the real problems of the American people, because they are bound to the failed policies of the past.”

So, Obamas solutions are to enact the failed policies of the past: Socialism.

rhhardin said...

Women Falling for Obama

You can see it in their flushed-face smiles and hear it in their screams...

Joe said...

"We honor his service to our nation. But his priorities don’t address the real problems of the American people, because they are bound to the failed policies of the past."

Of course it would be beneath him to offer any substantive critique of what these "failed policies" are or any concrete examples of how his presumably soon-to-be-successful-in-causing-sudden-world-peace policies of the future would be different or better.

He can say "failed politics of the past" all day long but it doesn't mean he's any different.

And how do John McCain's priorities not address the "real problems of the American people?" Let's see: national defense, fiscal responsibility, immigration ... seems like a pretty "real" parcel of problems to me.

Pshaw. Obama leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Joe said...

Hah. Nice, Sgt Ted. Much more succinct than mine.

Meade said...

Oh no! Not eight more years of the failed enunciations of the past!

Dave Chess LEV itch

How hard can it be for a tongue dipped in gold to articulate that?

bill said...

Sizz-LA-witch?

CHECH-le-wisch?

Here's Miss Pronouncer, a pronunciation guide for everything Wisconsin. But the audio isn't working for for.

bill said...

Thanks, Meade! I'm always forgetting the Eastern European w = v

Fen said...

We're seeing the same pattern in the electorate that supported Chamberlain's madness up to the invasion of Poland. Again, Wretchard of Belmont Club tags it nicely:

"Although conventional wisdom sees Barack Obama as the future, I think he represents the past, even if he becomes President. He'll take the Fifth on every one of the key controversies the world struggles with today. Not because he's stupid but because his constituency won't let him face the issues. They've elected him to make it all go away"

Henry said...

"Mr. Obama is an American original," Mr. McClain said before a huge, cheering crowd. "We honor his service to our nation. But his priorities don’t address the real problems of the American people, because they are bound to the back of a unicorn that lives in an enchanted forest.

Verso said...

SGT Ted: Can you define socialism?

Can you explain precisely which proposals of Obama's are "socialist"?

Which industries has he proposed nationalizing? What means of production does he want to seize?

Or are you aware that conservatives throw the term socialist around much like liberals throw around fascist?

Trumpit said...

There is no problem; the predictable right-wing, pensioner commenters here will quickly switch gears from sexism and hating Hillary to hating black boy Barak. His name sounds so unamerican and he's half Kenyan; that can't be a good combination for the prejudiced. Sgt. Ted has already labeled him a failed socialist, right in goose step. Rhhardin, blindfolded, wouldn't vote for a black even if he was half white. But, there's an old saying that applies to the prospective nominee: Don't count your chickens before they hatch. The easy transition to more hate, can wait!

madawaskan said...

I heard that.

He gave Cieslewicz the Serbian ending phonetically-"vich".

Here is John McCain's almost direct shot across Obama's path-

They will appeal to our dreams of a better future for ourselves, our families and our country, but they would take from us more of the wealth we have earned to build those dreams and assure us that government is better able than we are to make decisions about our future for us. They will promise to break with the failed politics of the past, but will campaign in ways that seek to minimize their exposure to questions from the press and challenges from voters who ask more from their candidates than an empty promise of "trust me, I know better." They will paint a picture of the world in which America's mistakes are a greater threat to our security than the malevolent intentions of an enemy that despises us and our ideals; a world that can be made safer and more peaceful by placating our implacable foes and breaking faith with allies and the millions of people in this world for whom America, and the global progress of our ideals, has long been "the last, best hope of earth."

John McCain continues on the theme-

Hope, my friends, is a powerful thing. I can attest to that better than many, for I have seen men's hopes tested in hard and cruel ways that few will ever experience. And I stood astonished at the resilience of their hope in the darkest of hours because it did not reside in an exaggerated belief in their individual strength, but in the support of their comrades, and their faith in their country. My hope for our country resides in my faith in the American character, the character which proudly defends the right to think and do for ourselves, but perceives self-interest in accord with a kinship of ideals, which, when called upon, Americans will defend with their very lives.

He deals another blow...

do not seek the presidency on the presumption that I am blessed with such personal greatness that history has anointed me to save my country in its hour of need. I seek the presidency with the humility of a man who cannot forget that my country saved me. I am running to serve America, and to champion the ideas I believe will help us do what every American generation has managed to do: to make in our time, and from our challenges, a stronger country and a better world.

transcript

It was powerful in content-quite in delivery-before a crowd of few.

Not exactly something to get excited about, instead it's something to do with maturity-and it is in a time something to get serious about.

madawaskan said...

trumpet-

So when Democrats won't vote for Hillary-

What is it?

When Democrats won't vote for Obama?

What is it?

Their [Republican's] reasons can't be the same as yours?

Fen said...

Trumpit: the predictable right-wing, pensioner commenters here will quickly switch gears from sexism and hating Hillary to hating black boy Barak.

The only thing predictable is your play of the race card. Obama, to his credit, hasn't gone there. Neither have McCain or the GOP base.

To date, Democrat Bill Clinton is the only one to be racist, trying to marginalize Obama by associating him with race-baiters like Jackson & Sharpton.

Speaking of racism, what are your thoughts on a church that encourges its members, through covenant, to only do business with Whites?

Titan said...

Of course it would be beneath him to offer any substantive critique of what these "failed policies" are or any concrete examples of how his presumably soon-to-be-successful-in-causing-sudden-world-peace policies of the future would be different or better.

Well, did you listen to the rest of the speech? Obama criticized/mentioned specifically:

-McCain's view on Iraq. "Senator McCain said the other day that we might be mired for a hundred years in Iraq, which is reason enough to not give him four years in the White House."

-McCain's support for the Bush tax cuts. "I admired Senator McCain when he stood up and said that it offended his 'conscience' to support the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in a time of war; that he couldn't support a tax cut where 'so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate.' But somewhere along the road to the Republican nomination, the Straight Talk Express lost its wheels, because now he's all for them. Well I'm not."

-He also talked about paying for college. "That's why I'll make college affordable with an annual $4,000 tax credit if you're willing to do community service, or national service. We will invest in you, but we'll ask you to invest in your country."


Maybe you just have your stereotype fixed so firmly in your ear that you didn't hear these lines?

joe said...

I didn't read Nagourney's article but does he mention that Obama won big in states where a sizable number of the primary voters are black? And that Hillary is expected to do better in Texas, Ohio and PA? Or is race only an issue when someone is opposed to Obama, as Trumpit so ably demonstrates here - ie, if you don't support Obama you are a racist.
McCain's answer to the hope/change empty rhetoric of Obama will be to pit his experience and elder statesman status against the fact that Obama is green and inexperienced.

madawaskan said...

verso-

Welp.

Here is Gov. Sebelius's Democratic response to the State of the Union Address-given on NBC broadcast news after a rebuttal from Obama and Clinton-so I am pretty sure if they are oraganized they reviewed Sebelius's speech.

Her is a comment form her-now if you've ever studied politics-it's going to have a familiiar ring to it-otherwise it may be "new to you"...

Here it is-as the near conclusion of her speech-

Gov. Sebelius-D:

We are Americans sharing a belief in something greater than ourselves, a nation coming together to meet challenges and find solutions; to share sacrifices and share prosperity; and focus, once again, not only on the individual good but on the common good.

transcript

joe said...

Bet you anything that Obama's $4,000 credit for college tuition will not be available to anyone making more than a minimal income.

Fen said...

When Democrats won't vote for Obama? What is it?

Even better, when Democrats tell pollsters they're voting Obama, but choose Clinton instead once they are alone in the voting booth, what is it?

lanolin r fruitbat said...

Verso said...

SGT Ted: Can you define socialism?

Can you explain precisely which proposals of Obama's are "socialist"?

Which industries has he proposed nationalizing? What means of production does he want to seize?


Ted's answers will doubtless be amusing in their sputtering incoherence.

Or are you aware that conservatives throw the term socialist around much like liberals throw around fascist?

The difference being that when the liberals do it they're usually right.

Definition of fascism: The confluence of state and corporate power. With a little xenophobia and priapic nationalism thrown in.

I.e., the Bush adminstration....

Fen said...

"Senator McCain said the other day that we might be mired for a hundred years in Iraq, which is reason enough to not give him four years in the White House."

If Obama actually said that, then he's devolving into the political tricks he claims to stand against.

What McCain said was that we would have a long-term presence in the region, much like we did in Germany and Japan after WW2.

/dammnit, you guys have got me defending McCain again. Keep pushing.

Fen said...

race only an issue when someone is opposed to Obama, as Trumpit so ably demonstrates here - ie, if you don't support Obama you are a racist.

As I predicted last week [will we be called racist for criticizing Obama?]

Trumpit, if you're from the Obama camp, you should back away from that. The one thing that will kill Obama's campaign is a backlash against race-baiting.

madawaskan said...

Well you also have Ed Rendell doing it-

"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate," he said bluntly.

"I believe, looking at the returns in my election, that had Lynn Swann [2006 Republican gubernatorial candidate] been the identical candidate that he was --well-spoken, charismatic, good-looking -- but white instead of black, instead of winning by 22 points, I would have won by 17 or so."


Do you get what he is doing here?

In psychological evals sometimes you get around the "embarrassment factor" by asking someone what their "friend" would do.

That way the subject can disown the behaviour as someone else's.

Well here Ed Rendell is giving you permission to not vote for Obama-because of "those" other racists.

Not YOU of course.

[Ed Rendell endorsed Hillary.}

Meade said...

Henry: good one!

Trumpit said...

Pensioner Fen,

There will be enough subtle and not so subtle race-baiting, & socialist-baiting around here for you to get your fill should Obama get the nomination. Just you wait and see! The mindless, sexist Hillary bashing will need another smelly sewer channel to flow to. Now you can go cash your Social Security check, and take your government-paid-for pills. Have a nice senior moment.

Fen said...

Trumpt: There will be enough subtle and not so subtle race-baiting, & socialist-baiting around here for you to get your fill should Obama get the nomination

Nope. If there is, it will be from disgruntled Clintonians.

Are you really on Obama's team? Again, if so, you need to dial it back. There has not been an honest discussion re racism in this country. What that means for you is that there are huge landmines out there you/Obama are unaware of.

For example, most of America is tired of race-based shenanigans, from the employee who has to shoulder the workload of an incompetent AA hire, to the manager who's every good-faith reprimand is countered by an EEO complaint. Those voters are not going to permit that mischief in the White House.

If your side indulges in race-based shenanigans, Obama's campaign will implode. Clinton knows this, thats why he went that tact, trying to marginalize Obama as just another race-baiting Jesse Jackson.

Fen said...

Also, you never responded to my question re racism:

What do you think of a church that, through covenant, encourages its membership to only do business with white folk? Is that racist?

thephantomspitter said...

Fen said...

Most of America is tired of race-based shenanigans


You realize, of course, 9 out of ten times when somebody says something akin to that, the next thing out of their mouths is a pile of racist bullshit?

It's like prefacing your remarks with the phrase "At the risk of being politically incorrect..."

Or "Some of my best friends are black..."

It's a dead give-away.

But please, go on....

Doug said...

I can see how it might look racist, Fen, but maybe they're only trying to keep their parishioners from getting shot in the face.

michael farris said...

"Sizz-LA-witch? CHECH-le-wisch?"

The name Cieslewicz is Polish where it would be written Cieślewicz.

I have no idea how the person in question pronounces it, but in Polish it would be

chesh-LEH-veetch

theoretically the first and last 'ch' are pronounced differently but only Polish people can hear the difference. It's derived from the word cieśla, an archaic word for 'carpenter'.
That's it for today's philology lesson.

Fen said...

phantom: Or "Some of my best friends are black..."

You're projecting again.

As a former Marine, my best friends are all green.

Phantom, you're little charade has become juvenille and sophomoronic. Step up and give me some hard pitches to swing at, or I'll put you in the waste-of-bandwidth box with your other sockpuppets.

thephantomspitter said...

Fen said...

Phantom, you're little charade has become juvenille and sophomoronic. Step up and give me some hard pitches to swing at, or I'll put you in the waste-of-bandwidth box with your other sockpuppets.


Nothing pisses a sociopath off more than what he doesn't understand.

joe said...

I am sure that Trumpit, like every other obedient, unimaginative leftist, thinks that only white people can be racists.

Fen said...

BTW, thanks for illustrating why America hasn't been able to have an honest discussion about race relations.

I've already got a stray dog that follows me around - LuckyOldSon. But if I ever need a useful idiot as a foil, I'll look you up.

Doug said...

thanks for illustrating why America hasn't been able to have an honest discussion about race relations.

I thought the reason why we haven't been able to have an honest discussion about race relations is because bleeding hearts like me refuse to admit that dating an African-American woman is a surefire way to get shot in the face.

thephantomspitter said...

Fen said...

I've already got a stray dog that follows me around - LuckyOldSon. But if I ever need a useful idiot as a foil, I'll look you up.


The preening self-importance is another giveaway....

thephantomspitter said...

joe said...

I am sure that Trumpit, like every other obedient, unimaginative leftist, thinks that only white people can be racists.


Well, the white ones are the only ones you really need to watch. They tend to blow up government buildings and stuff.....

Middle Class Guy said...

Trumpit said...
There is no problem; the predictable right-wing, pensioner commenters here will quickly switch gears from sexism and hating Hillary to hating black boy Barak.


Boy? Boy? In this pensioner’s corner of the world, using that racist term would get you the severe beating your parents should have given you when you were an obstreperous child by some very angry Black men.
Typical liberal racist. Probably wants to bring back the racist policies of welfare and housing projects too.

Or did you mean LeRoy?

Roger said...

As one of the pensioner commenters here, I do hope that you youngsters keeping working your butts off to keep me in my social security, medicare, military retirement, and VA disability comp. Its great to be making 80K a year while I get my handicap down. Complain all you want, but keep working hard and think of all those additional taxes you will be paying to support me when Senator Obama/Clinton becomes president. I am sure you can depend on your party's boys and girls to fix medicare and social security: neither of which you are likely to see. Bring me another Julep, son, mine's getting a bit warm.

SGT Ted said...

1. Obamas a leftwinger. His votes in the Senate confirm it.

2. If he wasn't a socialist, you lefties wouldn't support him. Universal Health Care isn't socialist? Are you high?

3. I've read his website.His entire platform is about empowering the government to step all over everyone else depending on which demographic group he is pandering to.

What else do you call a tax credit for becoming a slave to the State for a number of years to go to college? A tax credit? How nice to grant me the boon of keeping more of my own money to do "community service" which, no doubt, will be in the service of some BS lefty "outreach" program funded by tax dollars already. How pitifully cheap. Sounds like another failed policy of the past called "Americorp".

Join the military and you get real cash to go to school. And you will actually serve your country, as opposed to some BS makework "job" that only empowers socialism.


Obama not a socialist? HAHAHAHAHA. What are the Democrat party leaders but a bunch of socialists and other "progressives"? Hmmm?

Pull the other one.

Middle Class Guy said...

madawaskan said...
Gov. Sebelius-D:
…not only on the individual good but on the common good.

The common good over the individual good is called collectivism and that is socialism.


thephantomspitter said...
…next thing out of their mouths is a pile of racist bullshit?

My, my. Bet your folks are real proud they wasted money on your education. They must never have washed your mouth out with laundry soap.


Cieslewicz- Swizelstick?

fstopfitzgerald said...

You know, every time Middle Class Guy posts something here, I'm reminded of this famous conversation.


Edgar Bergen (to Mortimer Snerd):
"How did you get so stupid?"

Mortimer: "I have a fella helping me."

fstopfitzgerald said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
thephantomspitter said...

SGT Ted said...

Obama not a socialist? HAHAHAHAHA. What are the Democrat party leaders but a bunch of socialists and other "progressives"? Hmmm?

Pull the other one.


Well, we know one thing -- a neatly slivered section of the SGT Ted medulla would fetch top dollar at medical research facilities everywhere.

Actually, it would be great from my lefty perspective if Obama or Hill really was a socialist, but alas -- they're just two more triangulating DLC centrists.

Middle Class Guy said...

Obama received some good advice from some old line Democrats a few months ago. No matter what happens, no matter how many primaries or caucuses he wins, he has to always run as the underdog. A few days ago, he stated the same to a reporter. He will run as the underdog all the way to the convention.

Middle Class Guy said...

fstopfitzgerald said...
You know, every time Middle Class Guy posts something here, I'm reminded of this famous conversation.


Edgar Bergen (to Mortimer Snerd):
"How did you get so stupid?"

Mortimer: "I have a fella helping me."



Ah, fondly remembering your daddy. Such a nice boyo you are.

Roger said...

I suspect before this democratic primary season is over, the democrats will be giving republicans lessons in the fine points of playing the race card. Bill and Ed Rendell are already warming up the crowd; the only people black people are complaining about right now are their own democratic folks.

Fen said...

Doug: I thought the reason why we haven't been able to have an honest discussion about race relations is because bleeding hearts like me refuse to admit that dating an African-American woman is a surefire way to get shot in the face.

No Doug. As an example, look at the elephant in the room that all you "enlightened tolerant" lefties are ignoring:

What do you think of a church that, through covenant, encourages its membership to only do business with white folk? Is that racist?

Third time I've asked. None of you sockpuppet trolls will respond honestly, because you already know the punchline: the church was Obama's, and they only do business with blacks. If McCain had belonged to such an organization, his campaign would be over.

And you guys dodged the question because you're hypocrites with double standards. For you, racism is just a political tool to exploit for power. Which goes back to my old thesis: The Left Doesn't Really Believe In The Things They Lecture Us About

Doug said...

Those are pretty tough accusations coming from someone who still hasn't answered for his "black guys shoot white guys in the face for dating black women" accusation. But I guess I'll respond to them the same way I've been responding to all your nonsense: snickering, then moving on.

fstopfitzgerald said...

Fen said...

For you, racism is just a political tool to exploit for power. Which goes back to my old thesis: The Left Doesn't Really Believe In The Things They Lecture Us About


Some of Fen's best friends are black.

I don't think he knows any Lefties, though....

fstopfitzgerald said...

Fen said...

For you, racism is just a political tool to exploit for power


Yep, that was the central message of Dr. King for sure. Amazing nobody has noticed till now....

Hoosier Daddy said...

Can you explain precisely which proposals of Obama's are "socialist"?

It may be the higher taxes and taking more from me for the ‘common good’ that has that Marxian ring to it.

Then again, it would appear his supporters think so based upon this

But then Che doesn’t bother those who agree with his ideology.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Actually, it would be great from my lefty perspective if Obama or Hill really was a socialist, but alas -- they're just two more triangulating DLC centrists.

Well there is always the People's Paradise of Cuba as it has worked out splendidly for them. If the humidity is a problem, you can always try Sweden too. I hear the women are hot.

Elliott A said...

Has anyone on the left, Sharpton, or Jackson had any comments about Rendell? Most times, when an individual articulates comments like his of the other day, he is speaking from his own feelings. Nobody will question Obama's church's practices since they see nothing wrong with it. It doesn't ring a bell for them. They are only tolerant and diverse when someone is looking.

Middle Class Guy said...

Elliott A said...
Has anyone on the left, Sharpton, or Jackson had any comments about Rendell?



Rendell is a Liberal Democrat. They can say what they want and get away with it.

fstopfitzgerald said...

Hoosier Daddy said...

you can always try Sweden too. I hear the women are hot.


Ah, yes. Sweden. Now there's a totalitarian hellhole....

Henry said...

Doug wrote: But I guess I'll respond to them the same way I've been responding to all your nonsense: snickering, then moving on.

Ummm, Doug, I don't you've figured out the moving on part.

So you've got a feud with Fen. Fen says some wild-ass things sometimes. But come, think of the rest of us and move on already.

Fen said...

He's still fixated on my month-old comment that blacks are the most racist demographic in the country.

I doubt he'll recover from it and move on. He'll continue to bleed in public and respond to my points with personal attacks.

fstopfitzgerald said...

Fen said...

He's still fixated on my month-old comment that blacks are the most racist demographic in the country.


Considering that the comment manages to be both racist AND psychotic I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

Doug said...

Fen, you just don't get it. I've barely even addressed your "blacks are the most racist demographic in the country" remark because I'm still trying to wrap my head around your so-called evidence for it, i.e. that it's "common" for black guys to shoot white guys for dating black women. To even call that remark an "urban legend" would be giving it too much credit, since that would imply that it's believed by anyone in North America other than you.

All I'm asking is for you to do one of two things: 1) Admit that you were talking out of your ass, or 2) Explain why someone who would make such an outrageous comment has any business lecturing blacks (or anyone else) on racist attitudes.

Fen said...

Doug: that it's "common" for black guys to shoot white guys for dating black women.

I don't think I used the word "common"

All I'm asking is -

Why would I give you that courtesy after the way you've behaved?

I'm going to let the assertion stand on its own. You're free to disregard it; you're free to get all wrapped around the axle about it.

Fen said...

He's still fixated on my month-old comment that blacks are the most racist demographic in the country.

Considering that the comment manages to be both racist AND psychotic I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

How is it either? Or are you one of those who believes blacks can't be racist... because they're black?

Would you deny that the Jena6 was a racially motivated attack? A hate-crime?

Cedarford said...

SGT Ted - If he wasn't a socialist, you lefties wouldn't support him. Universal Health Care isn't socialist? Are you high?

All advanced nations except a few Arab ones now have national health care.

It is not socialistic to note that our system, which adds health care costs onto our sevices and manufactured goods, cannot compete in most export sectors against countries that keep health care out of the price. And more and more employers are desperately seeking ways to drop health care coverage, to survive.

It is not socialistic to note that private health insurance costs for the disabled or self-employed is becoming unaffordable. It is up 120% under Bush, and continues to rise. Unless risk is pooled and insurance becomes mandatory as under "Romneycare", we are on track for going from 1/7th to 1/4th of working Americans being without any health insurance or enjoying less health care coverage than illegals or prisoners.

Dental coverage has dropped to 70% of working Americans, with more employers showing interest in dropping that and mental health as a way of paring costs further.

Conservative's "tax-free health care accounts" do lots for the rich, little for working poor able to set aside less money. They - limiting people to spend what is in an account in a year or lose it - are wonderful for a broker seeking to get his teeth capped, useless for someone seeking to have a way to pay for a major health emergency like a coronary bypass or brain injury in a car crash that could happen in any year.

Few people buy the argument that with our life expectancy falling behind most advanced nations, dental coverage collapsing - that "By Jiminy, the US Health system is the envy of the world, perfect as is, and any alternative is Socialist!"

Romney's no Socialist, BTW.

former law student said...

only white people can be racists

The difference is that white people assume they're superior to blacks, while there are few black supremacists. (Go ahead, tell me five black people you feel inferior to.) But Chinese assume they are superior to the lazy, unstudious, unfilial, wife-and-family-abandoning white Americans. And Jews feel themselves superior to the less-intelligent drunken white Americans.

Regarding blacks buying from other blacks: What's wrong with supporting fellow members of your community? Michigan cars used to sport bumperstickers reading, "Be American. Buy American." The back page of my church bulletin -- and every other church bulletin I've ever seen -- was filled with business ads proudly boasting they were my fellow worshippers. My wife's mechanic has a bulletin board studded with business cards from other GBLT business people. Rumor has it that women are voting for Hillary because she's a woman. I think these are allowable without tagging these people as national origin bigots, religious bigots, breeder-bashers, or female chauvinist sows.

former law student said...

Universal Health Care isn't socialist?

Sure, in the same way No Child Left Behind is socialist. No child should be denied an adequate education for lack of funds. No child should be denied adequate health care for lack of funds, either. Sgt. Ted preaches democracy but practices anarchy. "Every man for himself" is just another name for MFFY: Me first, forget you.

Middle Class Guy said...

Cedarford,
I can agree with you up to a point. it universal health care is the same health care that the Congressmen and Senators get- unlimited, unrestricted, any doctor and any hospital in the world, then there is nothing wrong with it.

That is not what they have in mind for the people they serve. Also, in countries where there is national health care, many people come here. They cannot get services in their own country.

BTW, only one candidate is for the kind of health care I described above. Obama. It is his plan.

Under the Clinton plan, we would have death care.

Fen said...

Regarding blacks buying from other blacks: What's wrong with supporting fellow members of your community

Nothing is wrong with supporting fellow members of your community.

But refusing to do business with some members of your community because they are the "wrong" skin color is racist. Clear and simple.

Hoosier Daddy said...

It is not socialistic to note that our system, which adds health care costs onto our sevices and manufactured goods, cannot compete in most export sectors against countries that keep health care out of the price. And more and more employers are desperately seeking ways to drop health care coverage, to survive.

This is pretty much spot on. I'm pretty sure we'll see a form of universal health care in this country within a decade. Essentially the infrastructure is in place ie; Medicare which will essentially be extended to everyone. You'll pay your Part B premium and probably have the option to buy a supplement just like the blue hairs do now.

Now the fun part is that Medicare is looking at insolvency within about 10 years based upon current revenues so when you feel that sharp pain in the ass, it won't be your annual prostate exam. Medicare taxes and probably the premium you pay will increase dramatically.

But wait it gets better. Now that we'll have 300 million on Medicare, lets see if any incentives will be put in place to a) keep the current crop of medical professionals to accept Medicare allowable payments and b) increase the supply of medical professionals to meet what will be unprecedented demand. And if you think demand won't skyrocket, take a look at current Medicare utilization rates.

Also I would hope that we insist that no foreign patients are admitted access in front of taxpaying Americans. That means Canadians need to go to France or maybe Cuba as I hear they have outstanding care there.

The big winners will be the corporations especially small businesses who will be free of the massive burden of providing health care benefits.

The biggest change will be for the average joe who will need to adapt to the new culture of state sponsored health coverage.

Elliott A said...

Cedarford- With the exception of the VA, there are no federal dental benefits excepting those attached to some of the federal medical insurance plans and those have not been changed since 1985. They pay between 10 and 20% of basic services and nothing for anyone else. Employees must pay for the coverage that has been available lately that is supplemental to what is in the medical plan. Military dependents have a dental plan which is helpful, but makes most major treatment out of reach for enlisted ratings' families, and whose premiums are paid for by the soldier, not the government. I am certain any "universal" health plan will not provide any dental coverage. In all the "advanced" countries with dental coverage in the national health plan, virtually everyone who needs serious treatment goes to dentists outside the plan and pay cash, since they cannot get treatment without ridiculous wait times, and cannot get modern treatment at all.
As a dentist, I appreciate you bringing this topic up, since dental care is never discussed in the great health care debate.

former law student said...

Fen,

If blacks don't throw business each other's way, who will? I mean, how many black owned businesses do you patronize?

Hoosier Daddy said...

If blacks don't throw business each other's way, who will? I mean, how many black owned businesses do you patronize?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Fen, like most other people don't check to see what race the owner is before determining whether or not to shop at their store or utilize their services.

Call it a hunch.

Fen said...

FLS: I mean, how many black owned businesses do you patronize?

Hoosier: Fen, like most other people don't check to see what race the owner is before determining whether or not to shop at their store or utilize their services.

Exactly. Skin color is as relevant as hair color. I don't even consciously notice the race of the vendors I deal with.

SGT Ted said...

Ooh I'm an anarchist now because I think that my neighbors shouldn't be paying my doctor bill.

Tell me, any of you here. Do you go around your neighborhood knocking on doors and asking for help with your unpaid hospital bills? If you don't, then why do you think the Government should pick their pockets to pay for it? Are you a deadbeat?

Just because some Republican has a stupid socialist idea too, doesn't make it right. NCLB, UHC, all the raft of vote buying programs are socialist ideas. They presume that you can't take care of your lives.

Guess what? The only reason business took on health care benefits was to keep government from mandating it in the first place. Now that Uncle Sugar is making noises about doing it for them, they support that. The monkey will be off their backs and we'll have the quality of care found in Britain and Canada. No thanks. The free market, with its flaws, is a far better provider of medical services than Government ever will be.

Try as I might, I can detect no provision in the Constitution that allows "free" health care as opposed to say, "free" mortage or cars payments for those that can otherwise afford them.

Revenant said...

It is not socialistic to note that our system, which adds health care costs onto our sevices and manufactured goods, cannot compete in most export sectors against countries that keep health care out of the price.

No such countries exist.

Health care costs money, which means someone needs to provide that money. Either:

(a): Employers pay for it, raising the cost of the goods and services the companies provide, or

(b): Employees pay for it, forcing them to demand higher salaries, forcing employers to raise the cost of the goods and services they provide, or

(c): The government pays for it out of money taken from corporations (see entry (a)) or people (see entry (b)), or

(d): The government forcibly caps the fees health care providers can charge, in which case people stop providing health care.

There is no way to automagically prevent health care costs from adding to the cost of goods and services. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks a basic understanding of economics.

I would also note that the car companies currently kicking the asses of American corporations provide corporate health insurance to their employees -- many of whom live right here in America.