Said Cardinal Dolan:
I want to relate this to a post I wrote the day after the assassination that some readers objected to but that I defended as "as a serious invitation to contemplate Kirk as a saint."Cardinal Dolan says he spent the past week studying Charlie Kirk’s life, and the more he learned, the more he saw him as a modern-day Saint Paul.
— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) September 19, 2025
A fearless missionary, a passionate evangelist, and a true hero.
“When I heard the tragic news, I said, ‘I wonder who he was.’ And… pic.twitter.com/p77aAPOQGB
I knew at the time this question was complicated for Catholics because of their official procedure for canonization, and I observe that Cardinal Dolan — an excellent speaker — avoids directly declaring Charlie Kirk a "saint." He doesn't say "Saint Charlie," but he does declare Kirk "a modern day Saint Paul" — and "a missionary," "an evangelist," and "a hero." I'm not Catholic, and I don't know where the official line is, but the Cardinal seems to be stepping forthrightly up to the line. I think Cardinal Dolan knows exactly what he's saying and deploys clear language perfectly.
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71 comments:
Interesting that Dolan didn’t know who Kirk was until Kirk was murdered.
Dolan is a different demo.
meanwhile, democrats in the House (and here), continue to state that Charlie represents EVERY THING that they despise:
Truth
Justice
and the American Way.
and seriously,
the Democrats continue to think that THIS is the path to victory
He's an out of touch old man who is impressed with Kirk's digital skills...
There's just no reconciling Kirk's views on racial and minority civil rights.
Are you a White Supremacist, ann? The Catholic bishop is going to be embarrassed when he listens to everything Charlie was advocating for...
Seriously ann? You think the Civil Rights Act was a bad thing too? lolol. So much for covering "both sides"... Sad the guy was killed. But no... he was no saint.
We don't canonize those types in our catholic church today. Give it up and find another cause to champion? lol
Thank you for a very sharp post, Professor.
Kirk has the same problem as Vance. Too young to know how reality feeds back into principles, and so inclined to make principled mistakes.
Charlie was in favor of Free Speech..
Democrats are opposed to Charlie
Well, if he is canonized, the line for Advocatus Diaboli will be very long.
what was his mistake, to speak out in unconfortable places, he had been to Oxford, to New Haven, much more dangerous venues,
he spoke on a great many subjects,
I noticed that J.D. Vance mentioned praying for Charlie and wondered if he would get pushback on that. Catholics believe we should pray for the souls in purgatory and we don’t generally assume everyone who dies skips right past purgatory. However, we can privately ask for the intercession of those who we believe is a saint in heaven. We remember canonized saints and those saints known only to God on Nov 1, All Saints Day.
..."Kirk has the same problem as Vance...."
Kirk doesn't have anything, now.
The vile left demand they blame maga.
Delusional leftists cultists - YOUR party built the hate machine used to kill Charlie.
"HEY FASCIST CATCH"
conviction, integrity, something you don't have,
Leave it at martyr. Kirk wasn't a saint, he was a preacher.
I think Charlie himself would agree.
I never really paid close attention to Charlie Kirk.
Charlie was out there talking to young people.
Cardinal Dolan reaps the whirlwind in 5, 4, 3...
I doubt Charlie Kirk would want to be referred to as a saint.
Cardinal Dolan has always been a politician, with a finger to the wind. I would take anything he had to say with a big chunk of salt.
A saint no, an evangelist yes.
(Don’t let RCOCEAN see this post)
G Poulin.
why?
Are you on team terrorist?
rhhardin said...
Kirk has the same problem as Vance. Too young to know how reality feeds back into principles, and so inclined to make principled mistakes.
Says someone who can't even provide a Normative principle or accurately differentiate between Is and Ought.
It is kinda sad to watch atheists act like this. They think they are so smart.
Charlie Kirk was killed for his Christian beliefs on the gender issue as he was in the act of proclaiming them. This is close to, if not the same as. martyrdom in the Catholic sense. I don't know how you would distinguish. A Catholic martyr is automatically a Catholic saint. Is an Evangelical who is martyred for Christain doctrines which Catholics believe in automatically a saint by the rules of the Catholic Church? I guess if an archbishop won't come out and say so, I shouldn't.
A Catholic martyr simply is a saint but he is publicly declared a saint because he publicly displayed virtues which Catholics should emulate. In this country Protestant dissenters, those we now call Evangelicals, excluded Catholics from the right to vote from 1610 on, in some cases such as New Hampshire, right up to the Civil War. But now we have more in common as I learned from my association with the Evangelicals in prolife. And I saw then how courageous they were about preaching the Gospel. To me, what Charlie Kirk stands for is how much we Catholics can learn from the courage the Evangelicals have about preaching the Gospel. They even go on college campuses. We Catholics should learn about Charlie Kirk in order to emulate him, whatever you want to call it.
Dave Begley said...
Interesting that Dolan didn’t know who Kirk was until Kirk was murdered.
Dolan is a different demo.
And notice that Dolan had the self awareness to realize he was the ignorant one.
RH is a lonely old misogynist... with dirty carpets.
Anecdote. I had a brief encounter with Cardinal Dolan. I was leaving an event as he was arriving. He stepped out of the elevator as I was waiting for it. He stepped out, gave me a big smile, held out his hand and introduced himself. He may be a politician but he radiated joy. I get the sense that Kirk also radiated joy, even when saying challenging things.
I would say, he wasn't fully informed and leave it at that,
In his letters, Paul himself referred to believers as “saints”
Meanwhile, Kirk frequently referred to himself as a sinner, never a saint.
…a sinner saved by God’s grace.
'because is no one worthy, no not one' Charlie realized that,
“And notice that Dolan had the self awareness to realize he was the ignorant one.”
Great observation!
In the New Testament, the Christians still living, are generally referred to as saints.
I can say that Charlie Kirk was spoken of quite warmly from the pulpit in Sts Peter and Paul in San Francisco in the homily last Sunday by the rather elderly priest. I had to wonder when the first miracle would be acclaimed.
You mean to tell us that Christians are often humble and admit they are imperfect?
Well - SO.... the opposite of the Nancy Pelosi-AOC Arrogant collective left.
@Meade You are correct of course, but would note only that Catholics such as the Cardinal believe that all saints, save one, are also sinners.
I'm not a Catholic either, but the Congregation for the Causes of Saints can consider anyone for canonization. Be that as it may, there is a kind of secular canonization in this country. We made national saints out of very flawed cloth before., the secret womanizer and plagiarist John F. Kennedy, and the secret womanizer and possible Soviet dupe Martin Luther King, Jr. were two. (I say possible Soviet dupe because there is evidence from the Mitrokhin archives that the KGB repeatedly tried to place agents of influence within King's entourage.) Kennedy and King share two things in common -- both were assassinated and both were "canonized" by Lyndon Baines Johnson. Across the land, public institutions and facilities were named or renamed in honor of these secular saints. So what's wrong with a few Charlie Kirk boulevards or Charlie Kirk libraries? They'll be perfect targets for vandalism committed by AOC and other usual suspects and therefore perfect examples of their unfitness for any degree of public trust. Midterms are in the bag, fool!
This guy can teach us something.
Cardinal Dolan seems like an intelligent man, but he didn't know who Charlie Kirk was?
The Catholic Church has been asleep at the switch for decades. They have the brand recognition, money and organization to help with our problems, but they aren't effective.
Nobody likes public schools, so Catholic schools should be excelling. College is getting stupid, but Catholic universities aren't noticeably different. The internet has made girls mean and boys mopey, so offer alternative activities. Young adults can't meet nice people, so come up with something. There is a loneliness epidemic amongst seniors, and all they offer is bingo.
Charlie Kirk has woken up a lot of people. Turning Point is getting attention and expanding. The Catholic Church should figure out how to lead, and if that is too much, then figure out who to help.
Thank you so much for this post. Without you, this would NEVER have been on my radar.
Signed William (Episcopalian, Catholic without guilt)
Unlike many Evangelicals Kirk had many positive things to say about the Catholic Church.
Randomizer said...
Nobody likes public schools, so Catholic schools should be excelling. College is getting stupid, but Catholic universities aren't noticeably different.
Private schools are only marginally better than public schools in general. The problem is systemic.
We sent our kids to a christian school during COVID after moving. That school grew so much that they had to hire teachers.
They hired public school teachers. There are maybe 2 males in the school.
Out kids are home schooled now.
Agree with William - Thank you Alhouse and Meade - for this post.
It is possible to be canonized and not be Catholic but it is very rare.
It is interesting that Kirk urged evangelicals to honor the Blessed Virgin shortly before his death.
@AMDG — Yes, it is technically possible but to my knowledge formal recognition has not yet ever been extended to a Protestant or other Christian not in full Communion in his or her time.
There was an Anglican priest beatified in 2022.
Modern day this or that is a high compliment, nothing more.
In Candace Owen's tribute to Kirk, she said she told him he was too smart to be a Protestant. Candace of course became Catholic not so terribly long ago.
And if you aren't watching Owen's podcasts on this entire assassination thing... whooo boy.
Charlie Kirk was also very supportive of the Jewish faith and the Sabbath.
A modern-day St. Paul isn't necessarily saintly or a saint. T.H. Huxley was Darwin's St. Paul. You can find a wide variety of people compared to St. Paul for their conversion experience, or tireless preaching, or organizational abilities.
MLK did have associates who were communists, or former communists who still followed the party line. Moscow didn't necessarily need to plant an agent in King's circle, since Stanley Levison and Jack O'Dell were already there. King was a major historical figure, though. Charlie Kirk not so much. Anyway, my usual reaction to naming and renaming things is, better to ask why this person doesn't have a monument, not why he does.
effinayright said...
Lazarus said...
A modern-day St. Paul isn't necessarily saintly or a saint. T.H. Huxley was Darwin's St. Paul. You can find a wide variety of people compared to St. Paul for their conversion experience, or tireless preaching, or organizational abilities.
**********
Was St. Paul also a bulldog? I've always heard Huxley referred to as "Darwin's Bulldog", never any comparison to St. Paul. An on-line search yielded no results.
The Cadinal was speaking in a relgious context:
" [Kirk] was a missionary, he's an evangelist, he's a hero. He's one, I think, that knew what Jesus meant when he said: The truth will set you free...."
So, are you just making a faulty and cheapening comparison, given that Darwin was not known for his *religious* fervor?
What an utterly stupid thing to say, Peachy. My meaning is that Dolan is not a trustworthy ally. Grow some reading comprehension, will you?
As others have pointed out, the New Testament refers to all believers as saints, the word referring to those who are being sanctified through belief in Jesus Christ. Probably the clearest verse in the NT on sanctification is Hebrews 2:11, "For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of One, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brothers."
He who sanctifies is Christ, who imparts His Spirit of Sanctification into a man when he believes. The sanctifying work of the Spirit is of two aspects, positionally and dispositionally. Positional sanctification happens the moment we believe, at which time we are translated out of the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of the Son of His love. Dispositional sanctification happens over our entire life time after believing, as we gradually experience the sanctifying Spirit diffusing from our regenerated human spirit into our mind, emotion and will (i.e. our soul). And of course the source of sanctification is the Father who gives birth to His believers and imparts the Spirit of His Son into them, crying Abba Father! at the moment they open their heart and believe.
The Catholic view of a saint as being a special class of believer is not found in the NT. All believers are saints. However, there are those who are called overcomers in the book of Revelation, who overcome Satan "by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-live even unto death."
I would call Charlie Kirk a saint because he believed, but even more he was an overcomer by how he lived his life after believing.
In an attempt to "do something" some end up doing the wrong thing.
I'm joining William and Peachy - thank you Ann and Meade for this post! I am Catholic and follow Cardinal Dolan on the New York Archdiocese website called the Good Newsroom. He posts a short video almost every day (usually about a minute) that is a daily reflection. The website also posts his weekday Mass sermons (very short) and Sunday sermons. Every Tuesday he does a show on Sirius XM called Conversation with Cardinal Dolan.
Thank you EAB for sharing your story about meeting Cardinal Dolan.
Dave @ 8:46
I think a lot of us that are a certain age didn't know who CK was. I only found him while looking for something else on You Tube. I didn't know how wide spread his influence was. I admired his honesty and courage. He was really interested in what students had to say. All he wanted to do was talk.
Saints are all the people in heaven. From a Catholic perspective, when a Christian dies, you don't know if that person is in purgatory (will eventually get to heaven) or heaven. (Or, I guess, hell if they were pretending or consumed by mortal sin.) A canonized saint is someone they feel confident saying has been proven to be in heaven by miracles attributed to the person's intercession.
At least, that's what they taught us in RCIA many years ago.
Can anyone tell me what Kirk meant when he said he believed in the "scriptural borders of Israel and fulfillment of prophecy"?
The Catholic Church does tend to be political and perhaps even opportunistic in the case of Cardinal Dolan's enthusiasm for Charlie Kirk. In contrast, for instance, the Church is very careful not to speak out about the jihad against Catholics in Africa. They barely protest. Kirk's style of engaging in debate was indeed extremely different, direct and confrontational. And very successful in bringing many young people to Christianity. Dolan is taking notes.
"Can anyone tell me what Kirk meant when he said he believed in the "scriptural borders of Israel and fulfillment of prophecy"?"
I'm not that familiar with what scriptures say about the size of Israel in the end times. I am aware of verses that indicate that the eastern border could be the Euphrates, but it is not clear to me that that refers to before or after Christ's return on the Mt of Olives.
What is clear from scripture is that the anti-Christ will set up his image in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to be worshipped, the so-called abomination of desolation. This event begins the 3.5 years of the great tribulation.
Regardless of whether you believe in Biblical prophesy or not, isn't it remarkable that the scene is being set for the prophecies to play out? For the abomination of desolation to occur, the temple has to be rebuilt. For the temple to be rebuilt, Jerusalem must be in Jewish possession. For Jerusalem to belong to the Jews, Israel must be a nation. For almost 2,000 years there has been no temple and no practice of the Jewish religion according to the Mosaic law, but ever since 1948 when Israel was re-established as the homeland of the Jews, and 1967 when Jerusalem was (in part) retaken and brought under Jewish control, there has been the intention to rebuild the temple.
Be watchful, that the day of the Lord not overtake you as a thief in the night.
I don't know if Charlie Kirk is a "saint", but he did evangelize for Christianity.
Huxley was indeed called "Darwin's Bulldog." I found a quote, "Huxley to Darwin is as St Paul was to Jesus." It turns out that quote comes from a modern-day historian or teacher, but Darwin did call Huxley, "My Good and KIND agent for the propagation of the Gospel, i.e. the Devil’s gospel." Leave out the last few words and that does sound a lot like St. Paul. Like Martin Luther, Trotsky, or Malcolm X and many other figures, Huxley did have a sudden conversion experience. That came when he read Darwin's "The Origin of Species."
When I turned on the computer just now, MSN was featuring an article:
Man claims Charlie Kirk bullied him so 'relentlessly' in high school that he nearly lost his will to live
That is why we can't have saints, or good people, or good things anymore.
I dont know what it is about Catholic Bishops, especially the American ones. THey all seem to act like they're holding political office as generic non-demonational Christians. And more concerned about getting media applause (from athiests and non-Christians) than pushing Catholic doctrine.
Kirk was silent when Israel attacked the Catholic Churchs in Gaza. Kirk supports the Genocide in Gaza. Kirk loved Judaism, not Catholicism. He observed a Jewish Sabbath and constantly discussed his love for Israel and undying support.
Kirk was also Mr. Capitalism and loved "Free Market". There's an old video from 2015 where Kirk basically says "Lets legalize drugs. If some people can't handle it, that's not my concern".
Maybe the Cardinal is atttracted to Kirk's love of debate and his willingness to talk to anyone. And his vague, Protestant generic (and usually feeble) defense of social conservativism.
But I dunno. Was this the same Bishop that talked to Ben Shapiro and told Ben he'd go to heaven despite not being baptised and beliving in Jesus Christ?
remember the idiot, that made a similar stunt, well big brain intimidates
ocean, you really are removing all doubt you are an idiot,
about ted cruz
Regarding Wild Swan's comment. Martyrs are not automatically saints, although the need for a first miracle usually needed to open the canonization process is waived. Moreover, it should be stated that the Catholic understanding of martyrdom means that the person was killed because of hatred of the faith (odium fide). A Christian is not a martyr simply by having been murdered. Thus John Kennedy was not a martyr. If the motive for killing Charlie Kirk was political, rather than religious, he would not be a martyr as normally understood by the Catholic Church.
I don't know who "Derve" is but he/she/it obviously never listened to Kirk and just takes whatever Kirk's enemies say about him.
"remember the idiot, that made a similar stunt, well big brain intimidates ocean, you really are removing all doubt you are an idiot,"
Who can argue with that. Touche. When did you graduate from Yale or Harvard?
I would really like to hear the Pope's response to this claim.
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