From a letter to the NYT Ethicist, in "My Mom Voted for Trump. Can We Let It Go? The magazine’s Ethicist columnist on how a family might proceed in the wake of a momentous presidential election."
"Torn"... presumably because Mother is so useful as a childcare provider. And what, if anything, are you doing for her?
"If I try to protect my mother from vitriol, would I be betraying myself, or my wife and her family, in order to preserve harmony and child care?"
"Harmony and child care"... what an absolute loser!
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They seem to think Hating Trump is some sort over overarching moral imperative. I just don't get it, yet I have probably been cut off by friends for the same reason.
Guy should return wife to sender (in-laws) and be done with all of them.
These are just disgusting people.
It is people like this that make governments the biggest killers of their own people.
Well, he's Hitler. Haven't you heard?
These are the oh so “intelligent” people who think they should be running everything. Democrats are the most bigoted, racist,’hateful people in this country, and the world.
flip it:
The mother should tell her democrat family to eat shit. If they watch MSNBC - it's a no go for baby-sitting.
I have friends that are straight up Commies. Yes, it bothers me, but they're my friends. The fact people on the Left are "torn" about how to interact with family with differing political views obviously says a lot more about them than their family members.
btw- I come from a mixed politics family. We manage just fine. No one is canceling anyone. At the dinner table - we stay away from political conversations.
That guy has a vagina.
There is nothing "understandable" about their fury - it suggests that they are mentally impaired if they cannot accept that their (2nd choice, don't forget) candidate did not win.
That's what we do. No problem. These people are mentally ill.
The overarching moral imperative is their own power and social status. The system they built gave power to people who supported the party in various ways.
Now that the party is out of power their patron cannot bestow benefits on them.
A lot of HR managers, University administrators, DEI consultants and government bureaucrats are losing their shit right now because they can't be useful producing things people actually want.
Also, if his wife doesn't stand up for her mother-in-law (and her husband's mother and kids grandmother) then he should dump her.
Wrong. He is simply balless. There is a difference.
Geez. You'd think given risk of requiring expensive outsourced daycare, that mother-in-law's political opinions would trump all moral high-ground complaints from her daughter-in-law and her family. Let wife figure-out the alternative babysitting arrangements, perhaps her family will start providing all that free daycare for her. Talk about ungrateful and disgraceful people thinking they've got the moral high ground.
What's come out after the election about Harris Campaign ineptness and crazy spending habits, we should all breath a sigh of relief that this inept and unqualified woman was not elected president.
As it should be. Like Sonny said in Godfather, "We don't discuss business at the table."
He's asking the NY Times - who called Trump literally Hitler and a threat to the very Democracy that we all hold dear and who would likely act as a Fascist Dictator if elected - these questions.
And the NY Times is going to tell him that he shouldn't be too concerned with whoever voted for Trump.
These people are MENTALLY DEFICIENT and sick. And the NY Times is making huge sums of money by keeping them that way. We need to rid our country of such companies.
As happens sometimes, I find the Ethicist’s answer shockingly unethical. The Ethicist grants that the family is right to be angry with his mother; the advice is, basically, “don’t make a big deal about it.”
The family’s attitude is outrageous and the writer and his wife need to read them the riot act over their arrogance and narcissistic pettiness. The mother is too good for them.
She should also tell them every last one of them is OUT OF THE WILL.
Same here. We have far left, far right, and plenty in between and family gatherings go just fine.
Take "their" stuff. See how they feel about communal ownership. I bet they become very much less Communist.
A former commenter here (starts with an I) loved calling Trump voters cultists. But to my mind, cutting off contact with your own family is what cult members do.
Mother knows best. And some adults never grow up.
They've been programmed by the NY Times to believe that their non-preferred candidate is POISON and will KILL THEM. Of course they are furious.
Why is the NY Times building not on fire?
The word "understandable" is eliding a lot of lifting in that title.
He should SLAP her and put her in her proper place. She needs a good punch in the mouth.
Wha's weird is when they cut you off without any mention of the issue, like they just KNOW. I guess we need to greet each other by raising our arm in salute and say "Fuck Trump!" just to be safe?
MSNBC is pure Soviet Lying liars who Lie - Brainwashing.
Those people need re-programming.
That's my family for the most part. My brother does go off on Trump by email but my cousin just demolished him today, quite impressive job she did. He'll be speechless and forget all about it I'm sure.
yeah mom's worth her weight in gold just for that
my wife and her family are directing their understandable fury at my mother.
Understandable? I want to know how fury at a woman who uprooted her life to take care of this man's children and who is nothing but pleasant and kind is understandable.
And the ethicist says, "your mother is, as you say, mistaken to speak of her vote as if it were nobody else’s business...And because she has been open about her previous two votes, people who know her are entitled to ask her why she cast them. If they can’t make sense of her answer, they’re free to reproach her or express their disappointment."
No. It's not their business. If they ask nicely for her to explain what made her vote for Trump, she can tell them. If they can't understand, that's not a reason to "express disappointment". I do agree that repeating the same arguments at her is bullying and that, I think, is where they are if they are "channeling their anger" at her. Poor woman, her husband married into a family of childish bullies.
The notion of a guy having to ask (a NYT ethicist, for the love of god!) whether or not he should protect his mother is fundamentally foreign to any testicle-bearing human.
Yeah, I really object to that 'understandable fury'. Asshat.
Dixcus, you and I have been on the same page much more often than not since you showed up here, but this is not acceptable.
My father and grandfather raised me to consider it my duty to protect women against male violence, no matter how mouthy or stupid or obnoxious they may be.
It may be antiquated paleo-conservative "benevolent sexism", but it is what I believe. Shame on you.
If there's any 'understandable fury' to be had, it's to be directed at the media that stokes this hatred amongst our society. I truly do hate them.
I have several relatives (by marriage) who expressed that they wished the Butler shooter had succeeded. Guessing the Times won't be asking me about whether or not I should tolerate them.
I lost a few acquaintances from TDS. Still, they were wrong. My life is just fine and we are doing well, even through the Biden years. As Vito Fossella said "Not everybody wakes up everyday thinking about politics". Life's too short to be with those who let this stuff consume them.
Carol's first comment was a great lead-in. This is performative politics. They don't care that Kamala got her start by sleeping with a man twice her age who was technically still married. They don't care what John Edwards did, what Bill Clinton did. But Trump is "not our sort of people," so his sexual behavior is considered creepy. It's not moral, it's social.
cutting off contact with your own family is what cult members do
100%. Thank God my family doesn't do this. We run the gamut from a purple-haired atheist Burlington hippie lady to, well, me. We break bread together every chance we get and never discuss politics.
"but this is not acceptable. … Shame on you."
Well said.
"If I try to protect my mother from vitriol, would I be betraying myself, or my wife and her family, in order to preserve harmony and child care?" If he doesn't protect his own mother from vitriol (especially over something as evanescent as politics) he's betraying his own basic humanity. His wife's family sounds awful. And so do he.
How about they live their lives and stop obsessing about an election. You are not electing a best friend, you are electing a President to govern, not make you feel good. He is not Hitler and he is not coming to throw you in jail. If he manages this four years at least as well as his first four years, prices will go down, we will not be energy dependent and there will be no new wars and perhaps a few of the ones currently going can be ended.
If you cannot be civil to your in-laws or other relatives, then you should stay home and engage in some introspection. Try and determine why you are such a hate filled person to begin with.
It pains me to point out that anyone who is 'torn' on this issue, doesn't understand the purpose, or the power, of 'Family'. Family always comes first and foremost. If one can't abide this, then one doesn't really have a 'Family'. She should dump the ingrates and let them know that they have some ground to cover if they care to reconcile. She's just been notified in clear terms that she doesn't have a 'Family' to rely upon, and she should take action accordingly to put things in place that she can rely upon.
The next step in this process will be funny. Trump will win everybody over with pragmatic policies and good managerial performance.
" And she is my mother, after all.....I’m torn. My wife and her family expect me ...." She needs to disown him.
"If they can’t make sense of her answer, they’re free to reproach her or express their disappointment."
I don't know how articulate the mother is, but does the ethicist really think the 70+ million people who voted for Trump can't give a cogent answer as to why they voted as they did?
Nothing quite like ODing on Schadenfreude on a Sunday morning. Thanks, Ann!!!!
Agreed Ann. A loser. If he cannot keep his pitbull wife from attacking his own mother - - who kindly provides free child care - The son is the very definition of "loser".
I was attached by an MSNBC watching unhinged lunatic the other day. it was 100% unprovoked as I never bring up politics in a professional setting. Never!
The ethicist is as credible as Penthouse letters. They just make stuff up
Asleep 2016-21?
Ethicist has sound advice. If reader follows it things will be fine.
He's a simp, she probably makes more money too. Not a chance.
Sound advice only if one cedes the ethical high ground to the haters.
"And she is my mother, after all. I’m torn...."
He'll probably shed one tear when the next regime loads his mom on the train to the Truth and Reconciliation Center.
My mother's side of the family are life long moderate Democrats. By "moderate", I mean that they will eagerly vote for any Democrat who pretends to be less than extreme. My wife and her family are the same way.
We all get along fine, but almost never talk about politics.
To cut people out of your lives because you have different political opinions is absolutely nuts.
Understandable fury? I’m with the professor on this one, this guy is a loser.
The 21st century, where politics makes estranged bedfellows.
The next step in this process will be funny. Trump will win everybody over with pragmatic policies and good managerial performance.
I'm amused by all the panicked lefties who are running out to buy guns to protect themselves, and then crowing that they are a right-wing gun nut's worst nightmare.
Wrong. We are delighted. Nothing will happen to you. You'll enjoy peace and prosperity for the next four years, and find out that you quite enjoy shooting as a pastime, and appreciate the sense of security that comes with possessing the means of armed self-defense.
Then a President AOC will come along and try to take your gun away from you, and I'll see you at the next "Friends of the NRA" dinner.
Lots of MAGA haters. Look around.
My idiot son in law is one of these. He has no religion or philosophy, so leftist policy /D party are the replacements. He's depressed by election and sends constant rant texts to entire family (a third of whom voted for DT). Maybe if he got mugged (not hurt) by Venezuelan illegal flown w/a long arrest record flown to D.C. by Mayorkas he might start waking up.
Loser is right. What a wimp. And the Ethicist is also wimpy, as usual.
Loser is right. What a wimp. And the Ethicist is also wimpy, as usual.
I witnessed a vicious family argument over Vietnam. Have not over Trump. Think things more divided in those days.
This is a harridan wife, but he married her. You take sides with the person you have sex with.
If there's any 'understandable fury' to be had, it's to be directed at the media that stokes this hatred amongst our society. I truly do hate them.
Me too. Luckily they are losing influence rapidly, and tottering on the verge of complete extinction. Joe Rogan gets ten times the audience of all the news networks put together, and a tweet from Elon Musk even more.
I am constantly amazed at the degree to which people are transactional and exclusionary with their closest relatives. If I acted that way, I wouldn't have any people left at all.
Perhaps that's the goal. In my family, that would have gotten a "who made YOU God today?" I suspect they'll all get what they deserve, but I feel really bad for that woman. He really chose poorly.
Well. Except. They don't really exist, the NYT invented them.
Make the Yuletide gay. From now on, our troubles will be miles away.
The blind are leading the stupid. When a group purges authority and tradition in favor of anything goes pleasure plus no-skill social promotion (i.e., equity), you get exactly what you paid for. Blind employees entertaining stupid questions.
Sometimes people must learn lessons the hard way.
At some point, Dem rank-and-file has to figure out that DNC promotion of Trump in 2015 is part of the same process as the undermining of Bernie in 2016/2020, and of Biden in 2024. The Dem hierarchy is the real enemy of the rank-and-file.
Ho! Ho! Ho!
They don’t realize that their hysteria about the outcome invalidates them as partisans of their political faith? That any reality-based person is going to think their gigantic childish douchewads and want nothing to do with that political faith.
In 2020, I thought Joe Biden was fraudulently elected, boundlessly corrupt, hilariously incompetent, and the biggest piece of shit ever squirted from the inflamed bowels of a rotting Establishment. But I went to, and enjoyed, all the usual gatherings with my proggy family. Because I love them and because I’m an adult.
I don’t know who is worse - the wife’s family that need to die in a fire or the NYT editors that need to die in a fire…
How about saying "Keep your politics behind the wall of your teeth or get the hell out of my house."?
I guess if the family cuts off gramma they’re doing her a favor. Unfortunately I suspect it’s one of those ‘I’ll leave the country’ bluffs and they end up just shitting on gramma forever…
Lots of MAGA haters. Look around.
People who hate MAGA, check. Plenty of those everywhere you look.
MAGA people who hate their own families for their politics? Not so many. Just as there are not many of us who have sworn off Hollywood due to its starry-eyed leftist delusions. We understand that show biz people tend to be naive, brittle, damaged high-school dropouts whose inner direction begins and ends with wanting to be popular. Similar considerations apply to our own misguided family members. We give them grace for their ignorance, as they swim in a cultural sea of leftist propaganda.
Our hatred is reserved for those in positions of power and influence who know perfectly well what an abject failure the policies of the Left are, but espouse them anyway in their thirst for power. The Democrat Party, since the day it was founded, has clung to the tactics of stirring up racial hatred and division for its own political gain. Before LBJ it was the party that fanned the flames of white working-class hatred for minorities and foreigners. Afterwards it has been the party that fanned the flames of minority hatred for white people, taking great care to stick to policies that kept minorities ignorant, poor, and dependent on government.
You bet your ass I hate Democrat politicians and their fellow-traveler termites who have infested our great national institutions. Hate their guts and hope I live to see their party's total destruction.
When this happened to us, a couple of weeks ago, my baffled and hurt husband came up with this: "They knew our politics before the election. Why didn't they cut us off then?"
Isn't that the heart of it? If Harris had won, would they still have been "understandably furious" at this poor woman, an acknowledged Trump voter, who - as the letter-writer points out himself - has changed her life in order to be near her grandchildren and help these ungrateful loons?
So it's pique. They lost and they're pissed. But they couch their "understandable fury" in moral terms - "This isn't political for me, it's moral. I just can't socialize with anyone who would vote for hatred and racism" is how our family cutter-offer put it - so they feel less like the bratty children they're behaving like.
Oh, the NYT media scum, by a long shot. Fire is too good for them. Ass cancer would be better.
I beg your pardon, but what's "understandable" about their alleged fury? Were the wife and her family getting a cut of the graft and corruption? Or are they merely gullible enough to believe the Democrats' campaign bullshit? Neither is a good look. At any rate the fellow's mother is one vote out of close to 77 million cast for Trump and Vance. Is the guy's wife and her family going to mindlessly hate 77 million people? Good Lord, probably they plan to do just that!
Normally, and especially given my own experiences from fifty years ago (Golden Anniversary coming up in just a few weeks!), I would say that a man should side with his wife against his mother. But this should be over things like insisting on rearranging the wife's kitchen cabinets and silverware drawer, not over politics. To coin a phrase, c'mon man!
And I will add that if that's all this fellow's mother means to him is free child care, then he must not have had a very good relationship with her for years.
their understandable fury at my mother."
could someone provide a list of republicans, that forsook family and friends because they voted democrat?
a small list?
ANY list?
protip, if your daughter inlaw doesn't want you around.. Don't Volunteer to baby sit
Sisterhood of the feminist warblers.
It's just the cancel culture. It's how we got gay marriage instead of civil unions. Disagree and be ostracized.
Democrats, those people who live in glass houses who shouldn't throw stones.
Ethicist has sound advice. If reader follows it things will be fine.
Typical lefty - do as your betters tell you.
"understandable fury".... what a crock. All he is worried about is the 'free daycare' for his kids will cease.. and his wife? She is just TDS. His mother 'moved far from her home primarily for us and her grandkids.' Yes sacrificed her time and money to help and these two POS 'parents' freak out when she votes her convictions....
If they cut off his mother from the family... it will be their loss.. maybe they need to pay for child care for a while and find out how 'good' that is.. for it is apparent his wife does not value anything but her TDS.
"They knew our politics before the election. Why didn't they cut us off then?"
They thought they were going to win and were looking forward to gloating.
Perhaps the grandmother is setting a good example for her grandchildren
"She’s pleasant and kind in daily life and moved far from her home primarily for us and her grandkids."
She's done this for you even though your wife's family voted for a pedophile who takes bribes to enrich his family? Your wife doesn't deserve her, maybe you can make an effort to demonstrate that you do.
Agree with that comment on the transactional part. Nothing wrong with a heated discussion among family, but keep the big picture in mind. Politicians come and go, family does not.
That being said, I do draw the line at personal attacks. During a basically full on argument during the Kavanaugh confirmation with myself on one side and my mom and wife on the other (one of those you look back on and ask why the argument even took place), my wife accused me of being sexist because I did not believe Ford. At that point I got up and called it a night, letting her know in my own way that I was pretty pissed at that comment. Next morning she apologized and life moved on.
Even entertaining the thought that a schism is the necessary result due to how one person voted out of 150 million others is mind boggling to me. And screw you all who had the geographic stability to use grandparents as regular child care. Check that privilege! I demand a reparations check!
"My wife’s sister said, 'If she voted for Trump again, I’m completely done with her."
What lies beneath cancel culture is a religious philosophy conceived in abortive ideation. Others will, for better and worse, reconcile their burdens, 'til death do us part.
here's a Fun Thought Experiment!
dear NYT's Ethicist:
after the Butler shooter succeeded, and Ended Trump, my family had a big celebration (of COURSE!)
BUT! when my demented mother (a MAGAT!) found out..
she refused to provide day care for our children, and wrote us out of her will!!
HOW are WE supposed to handle her demented cruelty?
So, for the Fun Thought Experiment.. HOW would the NYT's ethicist have responded to this alternative timeline?
This happens in reverse as well. Trump supporters who disown, shun, or refuse to talk with any of their family, friends, or neighbors because they voted for Clinton, Biden or Harris. Because they are communists, you know. It just doesn't happen as often, in my experience.
The fury is not "understandable;" it's irrational.
One person's vote makes no difference in the scheme of things. Trump would have won anyway.
This person needs to understand why Trump actually won and come to terms with Trump's victory. (But he won't.) He would much rather play the victim in this dysfunctionality when he is actually one the enablers.
…and as I mentioned above they’ll find a way to stay close enough to continue to shit on you…
This is all understandable when you realize that leftists don't really see themselves as belonging to a family. They see themselves as belonging to a tribe. A tribe banishes any family members who don't accept all pronouncements of the tribe.
The danger of believing Hitler was on the ballot. Not many people can recover so quickly that they can fly to the eagles nest, I mean, Mar-a-lago to meet the führer, I mean, the convicted felon, I mean the sex offender, I mean literally ad infinitum.
Pro tip: to save on Christmas gifts this year, bring up president emeritus /elect at thanksgiving
John Henry
Dump the wife and her family--advice from a friend.
Perhaps wife's sister (letter-writer's SIL) is upset by free daycare-babysitting provided to this family, without it being extended to her own children. Jealous of "free daycare" is a very real thing in today's world, a bigger motivator for harassment and vitriol directed at babysitter-grandmother. Maybe his inlaws are troubled by selfless grandmother who materially-supports their daughter's family, feel humbled by her substantial contribution towards and presence in their daughter's household.
Letter-writer seems blissfully unaware he's getting a $35,000/year freebie from his mother.
My own mother was outraged whenever my out-of-state MIL visited our household twice a year for Christmas holidays and children's combined birthdays, openly hostile to MIL, aggressively rude in demeanor, while rebuking me every time for "allowing" MIL to visit. My mother had access to kids 24/7, at her insistence, refused to "share" grandchildren with her daughters' inlaws. Such craziness does exist in family dynamics, may be situationally relevant here.
Wife's sister attacks husband's mother. I'm having a hard time coming up with an archetype that reveals the intrinsic nature of being. I'll keep working on it.
The same people that say “misinformation and disinformation” are an existential threat to… whatever. Little wonder if people have been damaged.
"It just doesn't happen as often, in my experience."
In my experience, it doesn't happen at all.
"They knew our politics before the election. Why didn't they cut us off then?"
They thought they were going to win and were looking forward to gloating.
Exactly my point - or, rather, my husband's. They try to claim that they're in "understandable" high moral dudgeon because of our failing, but if they actually believed that, they should have tried to "persuade" us back to the side of goodness and light BEFORE the election by cutting us off THEN.
But we attended a family wedding with the cutters-off some two weeks before the election and we all had a great time together. So they are suffering from petty pique that they're dressing up as a Great Statement.
Side note: I prefer cutters-off, herein, to cutter-offers, which I used in my previous comment.
"leftists don't really see themselves as belonging to a family. They see themselves as belonging to a tribe."
This is exactly it.
I'm a right-wimg psychopath eager to watch the DC graft network collapse violently, but even I think this is too much. It's the boundary between "extremists" and wickedness. Not buying it.
"One person's vote makes no difference in the scheme of things."
Even if it did make a difference, fury at someone whose political priorities differ from yours, especially if it's a family member, is wildly inappropriate. Even more so if that person is by their own account kind and decent.
A psychotherapist I knew once said, "If the response is way out of proportion to the stimulus, there's another agenda at work." That's a polite way of saying the person has deep-rooted problems. As others have said, that husband needs to man up. He'd be doing his wife a favor by telling her she needs professional help. And he needs it too.
The object of hatred absolutely owns the hater. It’s like swallowing poisoned every day and waiting for the object of hatred to die every day.
I would be willing to bet that caretaker grandma will continue to lovingly care for her grandchildren, blissfully unaware that her in-laws are eating their insides out. Hatred is easy, it feels empowering temporarily. While slowly depleting one’s emotional and intellectual resources. It’s a losers paradise
"You bet your ass I hate Democrat politicians and their fellow-traveler termites who have infested our great national institutions. "
Yes, my "hatred" is directed at the politicians and their media enablers. My feelings toward their voters is better described as puzzlement and dismay.
Yeah, what a dirtball loser.
I figured out the Dems are disgusting people when they went after Clarence Thomas based upon an obvious made-up story. I switched parties.
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