Vance: I think that frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if me and Trump won just the normal gay guy vote. Because again, they just wanted to be left the hell alone. And now you have all this crazy stuff on top of it that they're like, no, no, no, no, we didn't. We didn't want to give pharmaceutical products to nine year olds who are transitioning their genders. We just wanted to be left the hell alone.
Rogan: Well, a lot of gay guys feel like the whole movement is homophobic. Which is ironic. 'cause they think there's, they think that there's, people think there's something wrong with being gay. So what you really are is a girl. And they think that a lot of this is being given, these thoughts are being given to gay kids. These kids will just grow up to be gay men. And instead you're getting them to convert their gender.
Vance: It's pharmaceutical conversion therapy. Right?
When you're actually being persecuted, your reaction is: Leave me alone. But that doesn't make you a permanent libertarian, stuck in the position of just wanting to be left alone. Once the persecution and formal discrimination stops, you might be satisfied and want nothing more for your group and adopt a libertarian philosophy going forward, but that doesn't make you any more "normal" than the other members of your group who think that having come this far, they want something more. They go in a left-wing direction.
I'd say it's "normal" for a "gay guy" to find his way right, left, or center, like anyone else. JD Vance may be accurate in saying "they just wanted to be left the hell alone" — speaking in the past tense — but that doesn't mean that now, as he seeks their vote, they still want nothing more than to be left alone. But it's a separate question what the "normal gay guy" wants if he wants more than only to be left alone. Some do, some don't.
But Vance is making an additional argument: the "normal gay guy" would not embrace the transgender ideology because it the equivalent of conversion therapy. Even a "gay guy" who wants more than just to be left alone might agree with that, though I suspect that he would find it socially very hard to say that out loud these days.
Scrolling through TikTok yesterday, I saw a trend of men who said they were gay and agreed with Vance, and I wanted to collect a few of these here:
@shawnontheright Will Trump & Vance win the gay vote?
♬ original sound - ShawnOnTheRight
@itslinklauren JD Vance sat down with Joe Rogan for an in-depth conversation. They discussed LGBT issues which the mainstream media is now focusing on. Kamala Harris has not appeared on Joe Rogan yet. It’s unclear whether she will or not. #uspolitics #politicstiktok #politicaltiktok #foxnews #cnnnews #jdvance #joerogan #donaldtrump #kamalaharris #lgbt ♬ original sound - Link Lauren
@alex.ghaderi Replying to @tria Diaz ♬ original sound - Alex Ghaderi
@_ajtsanchez “They just wanted to be left alone”.. exactly! 🏳️🌈🇺🇸
♬ original sound - AJ
Posts
72 comments:
Me and Trump!
Vance used "me" as the subject of a sentence more than that one time.
53 minutes in: "So one of the big things that me and President Trump confront all the time is the accusation that we're somehow like in bed with Russia, which is like the, the dumbest thing in the world to me."
Isn’t it deliberate violation? Maybe nails on the chalkboard to the grammar police but it sounds more Yale than hillbilly…
Great interview, better than Trump's. You know the Harris team parsed every second of it to find a clip to get the base and elite media outraged about. Fortunately Vance is too smart (listen to how he danced back "stupid" Emily in Paris).
We've had several very normal gay professional couples buy seven-figure houses in the neighborhood in the past few years. Really great guys; dedicated to voting Harris.
I'd like to point out it was North Carolina's HB2 (the Bathroom Bill) that put obnoxious trans politics on the national stage and lost the governor who signed it re-election in 2016 (Trump won NC). NCAA Women's sports bodies ignored the privacy and protection of their athletes and came out against it, as did many corporations, who cost the state ~$0.5B.
It's the reverse of the "between you and I" people who believe it makes them sound more intelligent.
I put up a new post on the grammar topic so please take the grammar discussion there.
JD Vance thinks all "normal gay guys" are closet cases like him.
I don’t share this to shame those who do drag, but rather to shame those who attack drag while having a history of enjoying the art form themselves. 👠
Matt Walsh, Who Calls Drag Queens “Groomers,” Thinks It’s Totally Chill for J.D. Vance to Wear Skirts
https://www.them.us/story/matt-walsh-jd-vance-drag-photos-trump-vp-pick-defense
I’ve heard gay guys do ten minutes on the normal gay guy. Like there’s the equivalent of yellow/red cards awarded for acting too gay in public. Bonus points for a straight guy friend. Who knew?
Who says blondes don't have more fun?
Check: Yes, Photos Do Show JD Vance Wearing Dress and Blonde Wig While at Yale Law School
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-yes-photos-show-165100903.html
They’re talking about not making mistakes with young undeveloped minds, protecting children from harm. The kind stuff we never questioned before the revolution started…
There's supposedly a category of men who are sexually attracted to men, have sex with men, but they're not homosexual. Until I can understand that, I've no business trying to understand the claim that a man is a woman because he feels like a woman, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.
This is like saying every guy on Saturday Night Live is a drag queen because they played a woman once.
That must be when JD discovered guyliner/eyeliner.
"Check: Yes, Photos Do Show JD Vance Wearing Dress and Blonde Wig While at Yale Law School"
Ivy League guys dressed as women is a big tradition, isn't it?
"Male students in drag, Yale university 1883" — https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/11ttl44/male_students_in_drag_yale_university_1883/
One of my favorite TikTokers is an openly gay man who is marrying a woman (because she's the love of his life)
You're allowed to marry someone you're not sexually attracted to. Heterosexual people do it all the time. The question is whether you and your chosen one understand what you are doing.
I believe we now require Meade's thoughts on this.
Rich is just a vicious bigot. The masks on these people have been slipping for a while.
I think Meade understood exactly what he was agreeing to do.
Is the purpose to have children? Or do they just enjoy being a pair bonded couple?
Is Vance referring to Elon Musk? Ted Walz just referred to Musk as “that gay guy.” (Is it even possible for Walz to be more weird?)
The homophobic freak flag flies.
Watch Rich use anything he can to attack and sting his political opponents. This is what it looks like when your entire political ideology revolves around hatred of the other and power over other people.
Ann Althouse said...
One of my favorite TikTokers is an openly gay man who is marrying a woman (because she's the love of his life)
I need to hear more about this. What was old has become new again.
The gay men persecution story is a bullshit propaganda myth. Gay men died by the tens of thousands in the late 20th century from AIDs as a result of their own suicidal sexual behavior. There were no roving bands of murderous homophobes. It’s all a lie. I live in NYC and SF in the midst of this. This persecution myth is just a total bullshit lie.
Two words: Hasty. Pudding.
Althouse’s blog is great, but she perpetuates two myths constantly, the myths of the persecution and oppression of women and gays. These myths are both utter and complete bullshit, and they’ve been very damaging. These myths were tacked onto the legitimate claims of blacks during the civil rights era of the 60s and 70s and the results have been disastrous, the ever expanding identity politics stupidity, DEI, quotas, etc.
let's JUST FACE FACTS!
IF you're attracted to a man, then You ARE a woman, and your dick should be lopped off
IF you're attracted to a woman, then You ARE a man, and your breasts should be lopped off.
CHEMICALS (and SURGERY) WILL MAKE YOU RIGHT!
it's NOT up to the child to decide what they are.. THAT is the job of their mother (and her doctor)
ACCEPT THE SURGERY! ACCEPT THE DRUGS!! ACCEPT WHO YOU ARE!
"...people think there's something wrong with being gay. So what you really are is a girl. "
Which is why Iran is one of the world's most progressive countries in terms of providing gender-affirming surgery.
I can't remember if I ever found a way to listen to TikTok clips without having a TikTok account. Any clues?
Is there something wrong with being gay? Gay marriage and accepting gay pastors is going to wipe most of the Protestant churches out of existence within a decade. There are no children in most churches, except in the Deep South. Generations of children have grown up without learning the Ten Commandments. Single women have taken to aping the gay male sexual lifestyle of wild promiscuity and anal sex, and refuse to bear children. Yeah, there is something wrong with being gay. Gays belong in the closet for their own good and the good of the society.
Our Missouri Synod Lutheran Church has had about 30 infant baptisms in the last two months. We also support a day school P-8 and are in the process of expanding from two classrooms per grade to three classrooms per grade. (This involves a $10 million dollar expansion.) We accept gays as sinners like the rest of us. But we refuse like many mainline churches to ignore the sin.
@Bob B. That’s very encouraging news. I consider Missouri part of the South.
My brother is gay and married a woman when he was in his thirties. They loved each other but the going out to get sex got very old for her. Divorced a few years later and they are still friends.
There's supposedly a category of men who are sexually attracted to men, have sex with men, but they're not homosexual.
That happens in prison.
Homophobic Iran relies on transgender surgery to "rectify gayness", by surgically transforming person rather than allowing that person to remain "gay". Plenty of news-articles to confirm this situation in Iran. We can be bot "pro-gay" identification by gay individuals, and vehemently opposed to transgender medical care for teens and young children.
Know many adults who embrace "gay" self-identification, who also feel transgender activism is intent on misdirecting homosexual feelings into harmful (and anti-gay) "in wrong body" absolutism, so against transgender activism and gender-affirming trans medical care directed towards children and teens - seeing it as an adult decision.
Gay people are not monolithic as a demographic group and exhibit all the variety of thought and opinions that the country as a whole does. But like black people the only "representative sample" allowed in popular culture and News Incorporated is almost always of a type: the sassy witty guy with a flare for fashion and the beautiful "normal" woman who you only realize is gay when a scene with her kissing another of her type appears.
In real life few gay men and women are this way compared to the numbers who reflect America in all its beautiful variety. My take on the "left alone" question is that Vance is hinting at the radical transactivists which have become the type Big Media uses as exemplars. But they, like the commie wing of the D party, are the most extreme voices. And they have attacked lesbians who won't "date" a transwoman and dudes uninterested in trans dudes. There is no natural cohesion among the LGBT alleged "community."
Far from it, the gay people I know are definitely of the leave me alone variety with one exception, a really talented designer and artist who started a clothing company specifically for unisex and transgender people. But among dozens I know she is the one exception to the rest who just want to be who they are and not get drawn into the whole trans madness.
Nice try. Also already acknowledged and confirmed as two photos taken at a Halloween party. Standard Ivy League grad school thing, seeing guys in women's clothing at Halloween parties, and at other parties. Attended several such parties myself, saw a lot of guys in drag but they always had girlfriends with them. Apparently a life-experience milestone for some men.
Didn't see any guy classmates ever in drag, at any occasion. Sorry.
There are smaller Lutheran synods that are also conservative, such as the WELS, the ELS, and the CLC. They do not consider ELCA to be Lutheran. The ELCA gives Lutherans a bad reputation. When you read bad press about Lutherans, look up which synod is represented.
“The normal gay guy”
Andrew Sullivan has used the same idea (more or less) in criticizing the mania for so-called gender affirming care for minors. He says that gay kids can often be confused about gender and sexuality but if spared ‘gender affirming care’ will develop into normal gay guys. In a recent substack, Sullivan was so appalled by the evidence free and agenda driven craziness by advocates in the Biden administration pushing for radical gender affirming care of minors that it was almost enough to get him to vote for Trump. Almost, but not quite.
That’s just ignoring history. For more than 1500 years homosexuality and homosexual acts were persecuted. There actually were roving bands of murderous homophobes. Even in England, homosexuality could land you in jail until 1967. And, funnily enough, until we eventually learned the cause of AIDS, gay sex was considered “safe” sex — no pregnancy, don’cha know.
Ms Althouse writes: “Ivy League guys dressed as women is a big tradition, isn't it?”
According to the posts, Vance appears to be the only person in drag or “costume.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-photos-emerge-of-jd-vance-dressed-in-drag/
Using any social media platform's content as a raw source of data on societal trends is to accept that our societal trends are created and run by algorithms on social media platforms. Not a good way to start the Q2 years of this century.
Transgender is a spectrum disorder that includes the homosexual orientation. However, while the spectrum has no redeeming value to society or humanity, and may be even place individuals at risk, there are stable elements including the homosexual orientation. Nothing to celebrate. Choices to prosecute medical, surgical, and psychiatric corruption should be delayed until after puberty and the child can offer informed consent to forward-looking dysfunction and "care" at their expense. In the meantime, we need to acknowledge and respect the differences between the sexes.
Political congruence ("=") was the wrong principle of to resolve the confusion. Legalization of all sexual orientations (e.g. pedophilia, incest, sadomasochism, polygamy, friends with "benefits") was a wicked solution.
Men mocking women is transsocial. Women mocking men, too. The political congruence ("=") of couples and couplets is dysfunctional. Civil unions for all consenting adults. #NoJudgment #NoLabels
The Rainbow symbol and rhetoric in human context is albinophobic. Pride parades are observed on African savannas.
LCMS is second largest Lutheran denomination (with the second largest parochial school system). My church and school is in a Detroit suburb.
None of that stuff happened in the U.S., which you’ve just acknowledged. For 1500 years, all sex outside of sacramental marriage was “persecuted,” which was probably on balance a good thing.
Back in the early 80's, I went to a Halloween party as a female Conehead. Does that make me gay, French or alien?
Craig Howard: I’m not disagreeing with you entirely, but there is a tendency to monolithically project contemporary definitions of being homosexual and legal responses to such back into the past without being more cautious about presentism in both sexual mores and legal ones.
On an entirely different topic, Eric, did you know the Fruit Bat is the only animal other than humans that engages in oral sex?
Althouse’s choice of words must be intentional. Love of My Life was the song Freddie Mercury wrote for his “common law wife,” Mary Austin, who helped him come out as gay and then lived near him and was his best friend for life. She married another man; Mercury was godfather to her child; she cared for him through AIDS and ensured his final wishes were honored regarding his remains. He left much of his fortune to her. Love and sex need not always coexist. Love is always a virtue. Sex is sometimes just a behavior.
That is the so-called "March of Dimes syndrome." A group dedicated to achieving some goal is successful and then, rather than disbanding, takes on some new goal to stay in business. I thought the phrase was a cheap shot at an organization that for all I know, did worthy work, but it applies to many movements in recent history. In our day, with all of the activist groups, militants, non-profits and foundations, the slippery slope argument is always valid (up to a point). There are no final victories for activists. They will just find something new to agitate about.
There's a tautology in what Vance is saying. Normal gay guys just want to be left alone. Who are the normal gay guys? Gay guys who just want to be left alone. Tautology, though, isn't the mortal sin in real life that it is in logic. "Normal" is a stand in for "well-adjusted" (a common phrase in our parents' or grandparents' day). It refers to people who fit into society as it is and don't have a compelling grievance against the order of things. It refers to those for whom the movement was a means to an end and not the end itself or a means of livelihood.
Yes.
Diversity (i.e. bloc theory) is a transhumane ideology.
There's also the phenomenon of "normal gay guys" (and gals) in the sense of homosexuals who don't fit the old stereotypes crowding out the homosexuals who do fit the old stereotypes as homosexuality becomes more common and accepted. Young people with gay mannerisms may assume that they aren't welcome in the new gay world and may come to think of themselves as trans.
Diversity is black bloc theory.
Just when you think Bich couldn't get any more desperate and ridiculous.....
Why leftists are assholes - exhibit 230987
I have several gay guys in my family. None of them identify as Queer.
Well, there was that whole not having the vote thing, and not being allowed to have personal bank accounts, credit or get mortgages without a husband co-signing thing, and the facts about actually unequal pay for identical jobs thing. The last one happened to me in 1980 when I was hired on the same day to cashier at a Stop&Shop in Poughkeepsie, and so I observed it granularly.. The other hire, my age, my class at school (except I took advanced maths), lost out to me by a significant amount in our speed and accuracy tests. He received a starting salary nearly twice mine, performed terribly, showed up slovenly and late, and then just stopped showing up at all. 1980.
I don’t believe in special privileges for anyone and have likely done ten times, or a hundred times, more than you have to fight against identity politics, affirmative action, DEI, and their dastardly kin.
I agree that the Sixties conflated a lot of causes to the detriment of social stability. But often, the real benefactors were the radical Maoist black organizations and wealthy, right-wing, politically active white men — certainly not the working stiffs, traditional values political cohort who really meant it, and social conservative/religiously observant middle-class voters of all races.
Now find a trend of normal gay women who love Trump.
Years ago our closest "couple" friends were gay guys from Atlanta. Sadly passed on, as have so many at our age.
They HATED the Gay Pride parades with genital flashing and outrageous PDA's. They had "won" the rights they felt they had been denied and wanted left alone. What they feared is the image of gays as pedophiles and perversion leading to the loss of those rights.
Great guys. Miss them badly.
Ms Althouse writes: “Ivy League guys dressed as women is a big tradition, isn't it?”
May be. But how many declare themselves women for life? How many have given birth? How many have removed their willy?
I've dressed as a ghost. But that doesn't make me dead (yet).
Gays & Jews in the US need protection from the Muslims. They need a Wall and they need Trump & Vance on that Wall.
I did not know that. But now I know, unfortunately, that I am missing out in more ways than one.
While I was practicing law in a big DC law firm, I took on a pro-bono (i.e., unpaid) representation of a tenant association that was trying to buy their apartment building. In our first meeting, the leader of the tenant association impressed me as well organized, and with full support of his constituents. The next time we met, I was impressed the same way by the same representative with HER organization and tenant support. Same person, but now female.
So, my first "trans" client"! But she/he was still the representative of the same community, and that's who I was supposed to represent. Take a breath, and get to work.
I thought I read that bonobo chimps do it too.
Rich appears to be suggesting Vance is an artist.
All that stuff about bonobo chimps being specially peaceful because they make love not war between tribes has been completely discredited recently. I only wish that creep intellectual who spent decades watching bonobos masturbate in captivity at Emory and making up an entirely fake field of academic study about his “observations” out of his deep hatred for America had lived long enough to see his life’s academic deception collapse into the big pile of splooge it was.
Normal gay women are pretty cheesed about being berated for not having sex with men who say they’re trans women. They’re also not pleased by being forced to compete with the same in sports. And those who care about free speech are damn angry about having to keep such views deeply closeted, because expressing them gets you viciously cancelled from the lesbian community.
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