Here's the article, "Barcelona residents protest against mass tourism/The city's rising cost of housing, up 68% in the past decade according to local authorities, is one of the main issues for the movement, along with the effects of tourism on local commerce and working conditions" (Le Monde).Tourism is a curse.
— Nassim Nicholas Taleb (@nntaleb) July 7, 2024
The place becomes unlivable. Real estate values rise but future generations priced out of the market. Convenience stores become luxury outlets. Natives move out, jet setters own empty apartments..
The planet is too small & everybody wants to go to Venice. pic.twitter.com/xFXyZVJmNb
Under the slogan "Enough! Let's put limits on tourism", some 2,800 people – according to police – marched along a waterfront district of Barcelona to demand a new economic model that would reduce the millions of tourists that visit every year.... The second most visited country after France, Spain received 85 million foreign visitors in 2023, an increase of 18.7% from the previous year, according to the National Statistics Institute. The most visited region was Catalonia, whose capital is Barcelona, with 18 million....
All you need is a high enough tourist tax, right?
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63 comments:
Went to Barcelona last November. It wasn’t too crowded. If they wanted fewer tourists, they could’ve charged more. Gouge the cruise ships, that’s the problem.
They still love tourist's euros in Portugal. Barcelona is lovely, but I prefer Porto.
“Naw,” quoth Yogi. “Nobody ever goes there anymore — it's too crowded.”
The opening notes of the great "Let the Plebes Remain at Home" symphony.
Just jack up the tax until you get the number/quality of tourists you want. It should be easy to calibrate.
I guess the problem is that if you jack up the tax, you'll get a different proportion of young/old and beautiful/ugly.
Why do most places promote tourism? Tourists spend MONEY. These folks are protesting because they haven't figured out how to get any of it.
The estimated sale price of my house (as per Zillow) has gone up 63% in the past decade, and I am not in a touristy location.
I don'think it's just Barcelona. And from some of the articles I've read, a lot of the resentment is directed at tourists from the UK. According to what I've read they are drunken and disruptive cretins with no respect for anyone else and nobody wants them around. Which I find interesting because I would have thought the Brits are supposed to be so refined. Apparently not while on holiday.
It seems as though all the "progress" towards a more interconnected world just results in everyone becoming even more tribal and isolationist. I blame the internet.
Imagine what unchecked immigration does if tourism is this costly. As George MacDonald Fraser said in one of his Flashman books, after India was flooded with civil servants after the Sepoy Rebellion, prices went up, quality of service went down, and the local women all had the clap.
Tourism today is magnified because of social media, influencers, and travel mags painting pictures of places that demand you go there, lest you be left behind what's happening. Everything around the world these days seems like one big mob action.
How many people did you know who went to, or were going to Portugal 6 years ago? And today? How'd that happen? No one used to go to Portugal.
I can remember going to Carmel-by-the-Sea years ago and, like any human being, falling in love with it. This was where I wanted to be. I talked to a few store owners about what its like to live there, assuming one could afford to live there. One of them told me very matter of factly that "you wouldn't like it here during peak seasons." Too crowded. Can't get into restaurants. Can't find a place to park. Nothing like it is during off-season.
Now I live in Sarasota. Moved back here 8 years ago. (Lived here previously 30 years ago). And we've seen the explosion hit this town. And it's changed the city. But so many of us are not sure if its made it better or worse. We're still deciding- as it's changing almost monthly. So many tourists came here and fell in love with the city and the area. And covid really doubled the explosion that was already happening. And, frankly, our Governor's managing of the state drew A LOT of people down here. But now, in season, it's hard to get into restaurants. Hard to find a place to park. In some sections (like our offshore barrier islands such as Longboat Key or St. Armand's Key, Siesta Key), you can find yourself inching along on a bridge trying to get back to the city, or over onto your rental home on the island.
And we're going to Italy this fall, but we've had so many warnings about staying away from Venice, Rome, Florence, Cinque Terre, the Amalfi Coast, and Sicily- all apparently overrun with tourists- that we're going to an undisclosed corner famed for great wine, white truffles, and chocolate, but not yet overrun with tourists. Not yet. And I find myself wondering which places- to visit or live- are still peaceful, beautiful, and not overrun. It's a big world so I'm sure there are thousands of wonderful places to discover. But once mentioned...in this day and age, they will soon be hit with The Mob.
San Francisco seems to have solved the problem of over-tourism without having to levy a tourist tax.
We're hit with winter visitors that make driving dangerous and going places not worth the hassle. But then in the summer they go away. When we stayed in Venice in November no one was there. The plazas were flooded and the weather was brisk. Beautiful.
The key seems to be to live in or visit someplace that has an off-season.
Tourists not only spend money, as Toby mentioned.
Also, the money comes from outside instead of just circling around in the local economy. Fresh blood.
Tourist's don't need schools or many other govt services. Free or at least cheap, fresh blood
John Henry
Is tourism worse for locals now that AirBnB and VRBO are things? It seems better when tourists are all staying at hotels, inns and hostels. Now that they want their own home or apartment to stay in, it's harder for locals to compete when buying a home.
At least that's what I hear people complain about. I'm not so sure about it, I don't doubt it contributes, but I live in a city that only has a big influx of tourists around the first Saturday in May and the housing market is still one that's difficult for buyers.
My sisters both live on a lovely Island in NC with no high rises. The bridge connecting the south end of the island was only built in the 1970s They have very low taxes as residents because of all the vacation rentals; mostly single family dwellings.
The one who lives on the sound side facing the inland waterway, has a hand towel in the guest bath that says:
"If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?"
They all love tourism while it is bringing up their quality of life, prosperity, etc. after they get theirs they then start trying to protect theirs and griping about it. It’s a constant.
Spain has it all. Not only the big names like Madrid, Barcelona, San Sebastian, Valencia or Sevilla but every small province capital or city has artistic and gastronomic marvels. Landscapes from Galicia to Almería are a microcosm of Europe in one single country. Close to Madrid, you have cities like Segovia, Toledo, Ávila, Valladolid, Álcala de Henares or Siguenza which have everything that is to be offered to the discerning touristic palate, and that is a small fraction of what Spain treasures.
Keep in mind that Europe has a bit different vacation thing going on than the US. Barcelona gets invaded every August by droves of vacationers from the rest of Europe on their month long "holidays". It's not like here where people go to Vegas or Florida for a couple of weeks then go home. I can understand how frustrating that could be, especially when you've got the same vacation period and you can't enjoy your local beach because of all the outsiders.
And from some of the articles I've read, a lot of the resentment is directed at tourists from the UK. According to what I've read they are drunken and disruptive cretins with no respect for anyone else and nobody wants them around.
When I was living in Europe the English came for a soccer game and trashed the town. For the rest of the weekend most bars and restaurants were closed and the ones that remained open wouldn't allow any English speakers in. The Dutch really aren't any better.
As for Barcelona, it was too damn crowded when I was there, but then I was part of the problem. I much preferred Toledo, Granada and Seville.
I see a connection to uncontrolled and open borders. Could we impose a high enough migrant tax to discourage all of our uninvited visitors from making the trek up to see the sites? At least in Barcelona the tourists do go back home eventually.
The way tourism turns everything into a sight to be seen and photographed is creepy. Standing in a cathedral in Spain or France with the elderly widows in black, silently praying in the pews (as in my Catholic youth) but now surrounded by hordes of tourists in all the aisles. I quit doing that.
Tourism is what's going to save Missoula, now that the last mill is closing.
Tourism meaning, equity locusts from California deciding this is much nicer than Boise, let's buy some properties!
San Francisco seems to have solved the problem
A poop parade.
More tax will mean a smaller number of tourists, but only the richer ones. Which increases prices, and essentially gentrification. Tourism is a rich persons sport, just like the good old days.
tcrosse wins going away!
Illegal migration... tourism subsidized through shared responsibility.
We recently moved to a tourist city. Yes, it can be inconvenient, but we also have beaches, history and unbelievable restaurants in a good climate. So much of the good of living here is only because tourists come and help preserve it. The city has done a good job of zoning for lodging and parking and taxation. All in all, I wouldn’t trade it.
Now, I don’t know how it was twenty years ago, and I’m sure that’s true. But neither is the place we moved from, and it had none of the benefits we now enjoy.
Also, isn’t it strange that tourists (who leave) are awful, but illegal immigrants (who stay) are just fine? Weird.
An Alaska tourist spot will vote whether to ban cruise ships on Saturdays to give locals a break (AP)
"JUNEAU, Alaska (AP) — Each year, a crush of tourists arrives in Alaska’s capital city on cruise ships to see wonders like the fast-diminishing Mendenhall Glacier. Now, long-simmering tensions over Juneau’s tourism boom are coming to a head over a new voter initiative aimed at giving residents a respite from the influx.
A measure that would ban cruise ships with 250 or more passengers from docking in Juneau on Saturdays qualified for the Oct. 1 municipal ballot, setting the stage for a debate about how much tourism is too much in a city that is experiencing first-hand the impacts of climate change. The measure would also ban ships on July 4, a day when locals flock to a downtown parade.
The “ship-free Saturdays” initiative that qualified this week will go to voters unless the local Assembly enacts a similar measure by Aug. 15, which is seen as unlikely.
Juneau, accessible only by water or air, is home to the Mendenhall Glacier, a major draw for the cruise passengers who arrive on multi-story ships towering over parts of the modest downtown skyline. Many residents of this city of about 32,000 have concerns about increased traffic, congested trails and the frequent buzz of sight-seeing helicopters transporting visitors to the Mendenhall and other glaciers."
More at the link.
Cheap airfares, cheap Airbnbs, cheap tourist taxes. And it’s not just Americans. Chinese. Brits. Poles. The world. As noted above go in the very off season. What would you be willing to pay to price out the riff raf? $100 a day? 2? 3? Or perhaps there should also be a test. Who founded Florence and when and why.
Spain offers great value for money, people are great, the weather is perfect, it has a rich history and architecture, beautiful beaches and landscapes, etc. In many ways, it can compare to Italy, but cheaper.
Spanish food, specially in the North is absolutely wonderful. I believe that Spain has more Michelin stars than Italy. It’s not all Paella.
The only thing the Barcelona residents will get is a limit on the number of tourists, which will make their tourists wealthier and more destructive of low-cost Barcelona. Perhaps the city could institute an entry permit system, where a limnited number of guests per hour are allowed to enter the area. This is done in Rocky Mountain National Park, and you get the permit, or don't, by an online request system that Ticketmaster can't dominate.
The legendary hitchhiker says that he knows where it's at. Now he'd like to go to Spain or somewhere like that with his two-tone Bible and his funny cigarettes, his suntan lotion and his castanets
I'd also suggest that the pilgrimage trails of northern Spain are a great low cost vacation destination, but sleeping barracks style is not for everyone.
Temujin. I too marvel at the Portugal draw. I know people who have moved there for Christs sake. I mean, really. OTOH I have briends in Spain who tried it for six months. Hated it.
Is tourism worse for locals now that AirBnB and VRBO are things?
I think it can contribute greatly, depending on the area. We have a place in a New England ski town that has seen an explosion of VRBO-type properties over the last ten years. As a result, there is very little home-building with an eye towards locals - places are either way to big and grand for the local economy or are too log-cabin-y cute to live in long term. Prices on anything already in existence have gone up because those can be converted to VRBO's, so the competition for a potential buyer is not just other people looking to move into the town, but also people looking for vacation homes and investor/entrepreneurs (many of these folks have multiple properties in the town/area). Also, VRBO customers can get wild and unruly, particularly in the larger properties that can hold 10-20 people. Loud parties, people shouting from their outdoor hot tubs and the like disturb the peace of the town.
Another thing that affected this was the housing price boom following Covid. When people realized they could work remotely from a vacation spot, the price of housing in vacation areas exploded - our place's value rose by just less than 100% since January 2020.
Blogger tcrosse said...
San Francisco seems to have solved the problem of over-tourism without having to levy a tourist tax.
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Similarly, Parisians shitting in the Seine to protest Olympics.
Power to the Poopers!
The Mendenhall glacier is not 'fast vanishing', unless you happen to be part of the cadre that feels virtuous banning cruise ships because they're involved with fossil fuel consumption.
We have family in Europe, and it's a very connected place. They think nothing of hopping over to a different country for a weekend change of scenery. I think living in high-density populations tends to excite these kinds of impulses but it's just a theory.
Tourist taxes are highly effective at throttling the traffic load - but that's not the problem. The problem is, the revenue stream gets throttled, too. So the working stiffs suffer, and more importantly, the entitled class that owns the properties suffers too - and they've got the stroke to torpedo tourist tax proposals. They don't live there, anyway, so they could care less. To me, this is a Middle Class type of revolt.
Many of the touristy cities have been rendered unsafe by mass embrace of "migrants".
I would have thought the Brits are supposed to be so refined.
There's a vast class division between the posh types and the proles, and it is manifested in their behaviors. I'm tangentially involved with a business that hires Brits from primarily lower class backgrounds on time-limited J1 visas, and they tend to be extremely foul-mouthed, highly resistant to following rules (no smoking or cell phones or fondling your girlfriend while working, don't come to work drunk, etc.), and display all the morals of alley cats in heat. They've become a liability under current sexual-harassment rules, and the company is recruiting a lot less in Britain these days. They're able to find much better behaved English-speakers in places like the Philippines.
I have met Taleb. He is an arrogant asshole and a world class prick but I could not agree more with him on this topic. Three years ago we left the mountain town in Colorado that we had called home for decades as it had become overrun with tourists. What was a charming town with affordable housing and a western culture of ranching and mining was turned into a high cost, white hipster ski resort with the median home price in the millions. Taleb's other saving grace is that he hates economists.
Was in Barcelona 40 years ago. Once is enough.
As to the Venice remark, why would everyone want to live there if it will be underwater in a week or so...
Immigration reform is where the tourists come in and never go home. Catastrophic.
"Tourists" by definition don't stay so how could they affect housing costs ? This sounds like "gentrification."
For those into the mindrot that is Reddit....
There is a subreddit called r/AmerExit, which is devoted to discussing how to "flee" the US. Has been very active lately - many posts from people all freaked out about another Trump presidency and which country they should flee to. Sad and hilarious at the same time.
Barcelona comes up frequently as a place to immigrate to in this subreddit in addition to the many other subreddits devoted to leaving country of origin and living elsewhere.
Spain offers great value for money, people are great, the weather is perfect, it has a rich history and architecture, beautiful beaches and landscapes, etc. In many ways, it can compare to Italy, but cheaper.
Spanish food, specially in the North is absolutely wonderful. I believe that Spain has more Michelin stars than Italy. It’s not all Paella.
This is only the second time I can ever recall agreeing with Rich.
Spain is, hands down, my favorite destination on the planet. One of my most cherished memories is of the days I spent walking the Camino de Santiago pilgrim trail to the shrine of St. James in Santiago de Compostela.
Barcelona seems to be particularly fetishized by the TikTok crowd, but I'm not sure why. I like visiting the place, but find it less appealing than a lot of other parts of the country. The hordes of tourists are off-putting, but maybe it's the stench of communist politics that really spoils it for me. I feel more at home in Santiago, or amidst the conservative Catholicism of Burgos, where Generalissimo Franco's headquarters were during the Civil War, or in Seville or Valladolid.
Madrid is one of the world's great cities, with museums and culture and fine dining to rival any on the planet.... The Roman ruins in Mérida, Tarragona, and Segovia... Andalucía with its world heritage sites like the Alhambra in Granada and the Mezquita and Jewish Quarter in Córdoba, the bullfights and flamenco dancers and Alcazar in Seville, the medieval mountaintop city of Ronda, the beaches and night life of the Costa del Sol... the gorgeous cathedrals in Toledo and Burgos and León... ah, so many wonderful memories there.
But for my money, the best part of Spain is Galicia, in the far northwest. In addition to the Camino de Santiago, it has some of the most delicious seafood I've ever tried, best enjoyed with some local Albariño white wine in a taberna along one of the spectacular white-sand beaches between Vigo and Pontevedra. It is cool and green like Ireland, and shares much of its Celtic culture, right down to the bagpipes. And it is nearly as cheap as Portugal. The villages have sadly been emptied of under-employed young people seeking their fortune in Madrid or London.
It's my retirement dream to buy an entire small abandoned village somewhere like Ourense, with its own chapel and manor house, then refurbish the cottages for short term rentals, and spend my days drinking wine, going deep-sea fishing, and hunting mushrooms.
They'll never do anything about it because there are still many greedheads who love $. You should remember large numbers of people measure their lives in terms of money. It doesn't matter how much money they have, they always want more, and seem puzzled if you ask them what they're going to do with all their money. Making money is the whole point of their life.
So tourism makes them Money, so its good. Always.
""Tourists" by definition don't stay so how could they affect housing costs ?"
An increase in the number of properties devoted to Vrbo/AirBNB rentals, reducing the number of owner-occupied properties available perhaps?
The Muslims are conquering Spain again. The Spaniards are incredibly stupid.
what is difference between tourists and migrants?
I clicked on the tourist tax link Ann provided to the Wiki article. I laughed to myself when I read that New Zeeland was instituting a $35 arrival tax, which was estimated to "reduce the number of visitors by 20,000 annually". Do they really think that there are 20k potential visitors to NZ who are figuring their multi-thousand dollar budgets for their vacations who, when learning about a $35 tax, declare "Well heck - there goes the trip; can't afford THAT tax".
The article also made me think about reciprocity: the US gets loads of tourists - why not charge a hefty arrival tax (say, $200 per person)? Not to deter tourists, but to reduce our federal debt. If another country has a tax, then we could negotiate a reciprocity arrangement not to charge each other's tourists.
Barcelona comes up frequently as a place to immigrate to in this subreddit in addition to the many other subreddits devoted to leaving country of origin and living elsewhere.
Barcelona is welcome to the lefties and neverTrumpers. I've been there as a tourist, catching a cruise ship, and it was underwhelming.
You’ll have wealthier tourists and wealthier blow-ins but unless the tax is used to create more housing it does nothing for affordability for the locals…
The Trump-haters who talk about emigrating to Europe (but never go) might be dissuaded if they checked out European regulations concerning abortion and sex change for minors, or should I say women's reproductive health and gender affirmation care. But they are talking about a fantasy Europe.
'The Trump-haters who talk about emigrating to Europe (but never go) might be dissuaded if they checked out European regulations concerning abortion and sex change for minors, or should I say women's reproductive health and gender affirmation care. But they are talking about a fantasy Europe.'
This will all change in a few years under Sharia law...
"Tourism is a curse."
Maybe ... if you are a renter with a low skill, low paid job. But if you are an owner with a successful business catering to visitors ...
They think nothing of hopping over to a different country for a weekend change of scenery.
We have counties bigger than some European states (countries)
France is the biggest European state and we have 3 that are larger. Another half dozen nearly as big.
Someone, pj orourke?, said that if a European peed off their back porch it probably landed in a different country.
Going to another country is probly a few hour drive. We think nothing of piling the family in the van and driving 1000 miles to see a ball game.
John Henry
I own a travel agency. Most of our income comes from selling cruises. I'd much rather host small group hiking adventures... Good for the soul but not the bottom line :-(
I pity the locals who live in once-charming, scenic ports. Today's ships drop thousands of uninvited "others" into their midst, day after day, month after month.
Since 85, I've spent dozens of Septembers and Octobers hiking in the Berner Oberland.
Over the years, visitors have gone from being welcome guests, to demanding guests, to inconviences, to tolerables, to deplorables, to suffocating hordes.
Old friends told me last year, "They bring so much money but they've taken our towns and our villages and our lives away from us." So sad.
Sometimes, the trains from Interlaken Ost to Grindelwald or Wengen are like taking the Chuo Line into Tokyo at rush hour.
I'd hate to jack up the prices and the taxes. Beauty should not be just for the rich. Maybe stop adding beds (hotels and vacation homes). Maybe a lottery!!! Idylic Gimmelwald pulled this off a long time ago by having much of the area officially classed as an avalanche zone.
It's not just Dubrovnik and Santorini and Zermatt. Look what the invasion of non-native dollars has done to places like Jackson Hole, Bozeman and Sedona.
"Look what the invasion of non-native dollars has done to places like Jackson Hole, Bozeman and Sedona."
It would seem the goal would be to find someplace to live that's pleasant (so you like being there) but otherwise nondescript (so others have no reason to visit).
Sedona does a wonderful service. It attracts all the tourists and keeps them away from us in the nearby hiking/swimming areas which are just as scenic.
It would seem the goal would be to find someplace to live that's pleasant (so you like being there) but otherwise nondescript (so others have no reason to visit).
Well, I'm ruling out Pine Bluffs, WY but Pindale might be worth a look. I always liked the sign by the road that read something like, "Welcome to Pinedale - Pop. 1,900 - All the Civilization You Need".
The population actually dropped by a hundred during the Covid Craze. But household income went up 20 percent - not a good sign. I suspect the place has attracted the attention of bean-sippers, "artists" and vegans :-(
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