Althouse: "The crab warned her. The goldfish warned her."

July 20, 2024

"The crab warned her. The goldfish warned her."

23 comments:

doctrev said...: "Don't deal with the devil." Story as old as time. Although without a suitor ready to risk death, Ariel would have lost that gamble.

I don't even care what the reimagined version is like.; 7/20/24, 9:54 AM
Kate said...: Poor Flounder. Dead-named.; 7/20/24, 9:56 AM
whiskey said...: This is played on repeat in the second circle of hell.; 7/20/24, 10:05 AM
Achilles said...: The woman is right.

The little mermaid is a terrible evil movie with the worst hero in the world.

When my kids see this movie I tell them what a piece of shit Ariel is.

Ariel is one of the most despicable characters ever created. She should be an object lesson for every female.; 7/20/24, 10:22 AM
Achilles said...: I challenge anyone in here to come up with a list of redeeming character traits possessed by Ariel.; 7/20/24, 10:23 AM
JAORE said...: Hey Democrats.... You told us Biden was hale and hearty. You said anyone questioning Joe is a liar and a threat to democracy.

You held a primary (oddly enough I've had several people deny that - WTF). You were warned. You signed the contract.

But, go ahead, save democracy (step 6?) and throw out your own guy.

And don't pay back your student loans.; 7/20/24, 10:24 AM
Achilles said...: My comments about how despicable a character Ariel is got eaten. Apologies if they all reappear at once.

When my kids see that movie tell them what a piece of shit Ariel is and how many people she hurt with her vanity and her selfishness.

Ariel is the most despicable and negatively influential character ever created in my opinion.; 7/20/24, 10:42 AM
Christopher B said...: Achilles, Elsa is right up there too.; 7/20/24, 10:58 AM
FullMoon said...: Jeeze, Achilles and Chris B make the movie sound interesting.; 7/20/24, 11:12 AM
Paddy O said...: "Ariel is the most despicable and negatively influential character ever created in my opinion"

I still think that sociopath Daniel Tiger is the worst but you make a good argument.; 7/20/24, 11:20 AM
Beans said...: And then, of course, if you go by the original story... it's so much darker than that.

The original story is all about how you can't marry up from your social position. The prince marries another royal, the fish-lady dies pining for her lost love, Disney makes billions off of screwing up the story.

So sad.

Pass the tartar sauce, please...; 7/20/24, 11:27 AM
john mosby said...: Minions are a pretty bad influence on kids, too. They do everything you’re taught not to do in kindergarten.

Plus, they seek the strongest boss to follow. The movies sanitize it a bit by showing them in the service of cartoon versions of Dracula, T Rex, pharaohs, Napoleon, and of course Gru.

But if you think about it, they must have served some truly evil bastards throughout history. Aztec heart-ripping kings. Pontius Pilate. Pol Pot. The Ottomans. King Leopold in the Congo. Tojo. Stalin. Chairman Mao. Idi Amin Dada.

I am looking forward to “Minions: Behind the Music.”

JSM; 7/20/24, 11:29 AM
Achilles said...: Christopher B said...

Achilles, Elsa is right up there too.

I am going to defend Elsa to some extent. I have 2 daughters and got to watch that movie an unfortunate number of times while they are <7 years old. While risking looking like a sap I thought the characters overall were pretty well done in that movie.

Elsa had responsibility forced on her. She was not ready to be a leader. The fact that she recognized it was a mountain on her shoulders and did not act like a normal Disney princess makes me sympathetic.

Elsa was also scared of powers she was born with and did not understand. Elsa was scared of hurting other people so she ran away in order to not hurt other people. I have done this too.

My main quibble with Elsa is that she needed to accept her place in the world and do what she could. I think she eventually did do this though.

I think the villain was stupid. He could have just married the stupid younger sister and run the place. His character could have been done much better.

I think Anna was a decent spoiled stupid younger sister who grew somewhat.

It was a movie for little girls. I accept it is OK for movies to end up in an unrealistically positive place for kids under the age of 12.; 7/20/24, 11:32 AM
Achilles said...: Paddy O said...

"Ariel is the most despicable and negatively influential character ever created in my opinion"

I still think that sociopath Daniel Tiger is the worst but you make a good argument.

Oh god.

I had to look that one up but I recognize it now. Yeah that little fuckface showed up a few times on our TV. Daniel Tiger is a truly diabolical TV program developed for the specific purpose of causing harm to our society.

The reason I place Ariel at the top of the list is because of the sheer societal penetration of that movie.

I just think it was written by spoiled boomer brats though. I don't think they had ill intent like the people who wrote Daniel Tiger. They were just stupid.; 7/20/24, 11:40 AM
SDaly said...: Kate Winslet's character in "Titanic" is worse than Ariel.

Also, the Ariel in the movie is nothing like the original story, and the actual end of that story could never have been Disneyfied because it is too Christian.; 7/20/24, 12:09 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: That was cute. A contract is a contract. LOL.

The toothpaste jib was funny too.; 7/20/24, 12:12 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: "Kate Winslet's character in "Titanic" is worse than Ariel."

Good God, she's horrible. "Sorry, I'll just stay on this door and not take turns. Thanks for dying for me!"; 7/20/24, 12:13 PM
effinayright said...: Ariel figured out that if she didn't get (erm) legs, the Prince would consider her---as the saying goes---"Too much fish to fry, not enough woman to love."; 7/20/24, 1:01 PM
Deevs said...: Oh, man, I exceeded the character counter, so I'm going to have to split this in half.

I'm going to take the unpopular opinion here and say Ariel is a great character. Let me note that I used to think that The Little Mermaid was simply a story about a selfish girl who gets everything she wants by endangering everyone. Weirdly, the live action Little Mermaid got me thinking about the plot again, and now I've changed my mind.

First off, let's talk about Ariel's motivation. I think the common conception is that she was ready to sign a deal with the devil because she saw a cute boy. But she has an entire room filled with things salvaged from the surface. She's been fascinated by the surface world for apparently her entire life, but she's had to hide this from her father. Seeing and falling in love with Eric just increases her fascination.

Her father discovers her collection and destroys it all. The collection is obviously important to her not only because of its origin from the surface but also because of all the time, effort, and bodily danger (e.g., sharks) she expended trying to get it. The father is motivated out of concern and love for his daughter, but he might have wanted to consider his daughter's feelings a bit more thoroughly. After destroying her stuff without bothering to listen to her explanation, he just leaves her there to cry over it. He seems a little ashamed for what he did, suggesting Triton knows he was more in the wrong than the right on this one. Regardless, leaving her in that condition that is a mistake mistake. He needed to stay and be a father, reassure that he loves her and has her best interest at heart.

This situation allows Ursula's eels to slide in and tempt Ariel when she's in an emotional state and angry at her father. She's rash and caught up in her emotions, so she lets herself get taken in by Ursula. She makes the deal with Ursula, loses her voice, and gets some sweet gams. Now, she just needs Eric to kiss her in 3 days and she gets her voice back (I think. Maybe she just got to stay with Eric).

The thing is, she's successful or at least would have been if not for Ursula's meddling. Even without her voice (which is what Eric's obsessed with), Eric falls for her. The only reason she doesn't get the kiss is the eels ruining the moment in the Lagoon (Kiss the Girl is probably the best Disney song, by the way). The next day, Eric is ready to give up on the mermaid and go with human Ariel when he throws his flute into the ocean (he was playing Ariel's song, I believe). That's when Ursula shows up having stolen Ariel's form and voice and using them to enthrall Eric.

That's why Ursula isn't a victim here and is indeed the villain. She was actively interfering with the goings-on so Ariel couldn't fulfill the contract. The problem is that Ariel trusted the wrong person, a lesson worth teaching your children.

Anyway, Urusla leverages Ariel against Triton, turns into a kaiju, and gets impaled by a derelict ship piloted by Eric. My understanding is the new Little Mermaid changed it so Ariel steers the ship and ends Ursula, but that's stupid because Eric doing it shows Triton that humans aren't all bad. Everything goes back to normal, but Triton realizes now that Ariel and Eric are truly in love and lets Ariel return to him.; 7/20/24, 4:11 PM
Deevs said...: Now, let's move on to the moral lessons of the story. Was Ariel wrong to make the deal with Ursula? Yes, but largely because Ursula was a bad actor in making the contract. The lessons people should be teaching their kids when watching Little Mermaid are a) don't make rash decisions when you're in a bad mental state and b) be careful not to trust people who don't have your best interest at heart. Ariel made both mistakes, and she saw the consequences of her actions.

But did she get any comeuppance for her actions? That depends on if watching your father get turned into a snot creature (still not sure what those are supposed to be) knowing it's your fault and then nearly getting killed by a giant octo-lesbian are considered consequences. I'd argue they are, and I imagine Ariel learned some pretty significant life-lessons from the entire experience. Maybe they could have added on a little bit to the end to explore her regret, but it's a kids movie with a limited run time. Oh, and she still got to go be with Eric at the end? Good, they really loved each other. If they were real people, I'd recommend them waiting a few years before tying the not, but it's a fairy tale. So, I'm okay with it.
The Ariel defense continues:

Was Ariel wrong to leave behind her life for love? I'd argue no, and that's in large part because love often requires sacrifice. For supposedly being so selfish, she was willing to give up her greatest gift to be with Eric and to live in the world she was so fascinated by. Ariel is clearly a person who is willing to sacrifice for her goals, but being young and naive she was reckless in that pursuit, not to mention actively manipulated by a bad actor. I think that's a pretty relatable lesson, and one well worth discussing with your children when watching the movie.

So, I disagree with those who think Ariel is a terrible character; she's just a flawed character. And I don't know about you, but I find flawed character's to be the best.; 7/20/24, 4:11 PM
Deevs said...: RCOCEAN II, I've never seen Titanic, but I guess I'm going to defend Kate Winslet's character a bit along with Ariel. Taking turns would likely have led to both of them dying, so I suspect DiCaprio's character letting her stay on the door is what we used to call chivalry.

The complaint I always heard was that there was clearly room for both of them on that door.; 7/20/24, 4:14 PM
Narr said...: "I've never seen Titanic". Me neither, but I understand the ship sinks.

I haven't seen the version of Little Mermaid under discussion either, but it looks like the original H C Andersen tale has been dumbed down and distorted. He was a strange and twisted guy.; 7/20/24, 8:04 PM
Zach said...: So, I disagree with those who think Ariel is a terrible character; she's just a flawed character. And I don't know about you, but I find flawed character's to be the best.

She's a great character, at least in part because of her flaws.

The primary relationship in the movie isn't between Ariel and Eric, it's between Ariel and Triton.

Ariel's been brought up in a loving but restrictive household ("Under the Sea"). She wants to interact with a wider world ("Out where they walk, out where they run, out where they play all day in the sun. Wandering free. Wish I could be part of your world.")

The conflict is between Ariel, who wants something very reasonable, and Triton, who doesn't want to let her. He makes a bad decision by destroying her stuff, which leads her to make a bad decision by making a deal with Ursula.

Ultimately, though, Triton loves her too much to let her face the consequences of her bad deal, and she loves Triton too much to let him take the fall for her. The day is ultimately saved by the guy Triton didn't want her to date, who really was Ariel's true love.

The movie ends with Triton realizing his error and letting her leave the protective home and be with her true love.

She doesn't make a bad decision for illogical or boring reasons. She makes a bad decision for reasons that show her true nature, and then her true nature helps her overcome the effects of the bad decisions.

That's a good character, not a bad character.; 7/21/24, 2:30 PM