May 23, 2024

It's not so much that it was a "shouting match." It's what they were shouting about.

The headline at CNN is "Florida hearing in Trump classified documents case devolves into shouting match" (CNN).

But look at this dispute!
[I]n the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case.... Walt Nauta, one of former President Donald Trump’s co-defendants, [was scheduled] to present arguments that special counsel Jack Smith’s team had selectively and vindictively brought charges against him.

But the hearing quickly diverted into a longstanding disagreement over an August 2022 meeting between prosecutor Jay Bratt and Nauta’s defense attorney, Stanley Woodward. Woodward has claimed in court proceedings and filings that Bratt attempted to pressure him into convincing Nauta to cooperate against Trump by threatening to affect a potential judgeship nomination....“I had been recommended for a judgeship, that’s beyond dispute,” Woodward said Wednesday. “There was a folder about defense counsel on the table” during that meeting, he said, claiming Bratt referenced that judgeship recommendation.

“I think the implication was that I was to travel and convince Mr. Nauta to cooperate with the investigation, and if I didn’t that, there would be consequences,” Woodward said.

Prosecutor David Harbach then rose and accused Woodward of engaging in “procedural gamesmanship” by making a “garbage argument” about the meeting.

“Mr. Woodward’s story of what happened at that meeting is a fantasy,” Harbach shouted, banging his hand on the lectern in front of him. “It did not happen.”...

During Wednesday’s hearing, Harbach slammed Woodward, saying he chose not to report the alleged incident until months later and has repeatedly changed his recollection of the conversation.

“This is a lawyer whose allegations amount basically to him being extorted,” Harbach said of Woodward, waving his arms.

Woodward sat behind the prosecutor with his hands clasped and his head down.

[Judge Aileen Cannon] quickly scolded Harbach, telling the attorney to “calm down.” Cannon questioned why there was no evidence gathered of what happened in the 2022 conversation, saying, “Why do those comments [about Woodward] have to be made?” 
“That is not true, and I didn’t say that,” Harbach shouted back. The prosecutor said that that there was no recording of the conversation between Bratt and Woodward, but that Smith’s team has preserved any record they have of the meeting.
Woodward shot back up to the lectern, saying that “I’m here” and offering to testify under oath to what he remembered of the meeting....

Here's the same story as reported in the NYT, "Sparring in Trump Documents Hearing Highlights Case’s Slow Pace/A prosecutor got into a heated exchange with Judge Aileen Cannon over a minor point, as the case continues to crawl." Would you consider it a "minor point" if you were a criminal defendant and the prosecutor gave your lawyer a reason like that to advise you to do what served the prosecutor's interest?

A lawyer for the co-defendant, Walt Nauta, claims that prosecutors hinted that they could derail a judgeship he was seeking if he did not prevail on Mr. Nauta to turn on Mr. Trump.

“The story about what happened at that meeting is a fantasy,” Mr. Harbach told Judge Cannon at one point. “It did not happen.”

The testy conversation ended with Judge Cannon advising Mr. Harbach to calm down. It was emblematic of the mounting frustration that prosecutors in the office of the special counsel, Jack Smith, have evinced not only toward defense lawyers in the case, but also toward the judge herself.

So the prosecutor's tone of voice and behavior is not described. Instead, we are told that the prosecutors are frustrated.  

The dispute came on the heels of Mr. Trump’s legal team making several aggressive — and some unfounded — allegations of prosecutorial misconduct and political gamesmanship against Mr. Smith in a pair of motions unsealed on Tuesday...

The lawyer, Woodward, is describing something he experienced first hand, so you can't call that "unfounded." But the NYT is saying only that "some" of the "aggressive... allegations" are unfounded.

In laying out evidence of what he asserted was a vindictive prosecution, Mr. Nauta’s lawyer, Stanley Woodward Jr., told Judge Cannon that during his first meeting with the government in August 2022, a prosecutor, Jay I. Bratt, mentioned that he had recently read that Mr. Woodward had applied to be a judge in Washington and hoped that he did not do anything to “screw it up.”

By Mr. Woodward’s account, Mr. Bratt followed that remark with an assertion that the government wanted Mr. Nauta to cooperate with its investigation. When Mr. Nauta refused to turn on Mr. Trump and declined to testify in front of a grand jury, Mr. Woodward claims prosecutors punished him by filing charges.

Mr. Woodward had initially asked Judge Cannon in filings to dismiss the indictment on those grounds. He scaled back his request in court on Wednesday, asking instead for another hearing in which witnesses could be called — Mr. Woodward among them — to determine exactly what had happened at the meeting with Mr. Bratt....

With Mr. Bratt listening from the prosecution table, Mr. Harbach immediately went after Mr. Woodward, calling his vindictive prosecution claims “a garbage argument.” Mr. Harbach made the point that even if Mr. Bratt had shown animus to Mr. Woodward — and he was not conceding that had happened — such feelings had nothing to do with how prosecutors may have treated his client, Mr. Nauta....

Well, he's not conceding that it didn't happen. It sounds as though he's only trying to minimize it. It's a "garbage argument." He's just claiming to have made a neutral decision on Nauta after Nauta declined to cooperate. 

Although she seemed to recognize the tangential nature of Mr. Woodward’s allegations, Judge Cannon nonetheless appeared to be intrigued.

She asked Mr. Harbach whether it was true, as Mr. Woodward has claimed, that Mr. Bratt opened their discussion at the meeting by noting that Mr. Woodward was not a “Trump lawyer” in a way that seemed to be designed to curry favor with him.

“Should comments like that be made?” Judge Cannon asked. “Is that consistent with the fullest standards of professionalism?”

Mr. Harbach eventually conceded that words to that effect had in fact been used at the meeting. But he was adamant that there had been no effort to threaten Mr. Woodward into getting Mr. Nauta to flip on Mr. Trump.

“It’s plainly untrue,” he said, adding in an almost pleading voice, “It’s just not right.”

95 comments:

Wince said...

Harbach shouted, banging his hand on the lectern in front of him. “It did not happen.”...

He "doth protest too much" in front of the judge?

Iman said...

Go buy another ham sammich at Subway, Jack Smith, you twisted fuck, you.

FleetUSA said...

It sounds like a reasonable ploy by the prosecution. A classic negotiation move.

Sebastian said...

Meta-question: is there any part of any of the Trump persecutions that is not corrupt, malicious, and pursued in bad faith?

RideSpaceMountain said...

"threatening to affect a potential judgeship nomination"

Quid Pro Quo Delenda Est

ga6 said...

But in this case the judge is not from Bogota..

Leland said...

It has been clear to me since the Gen. Flynn investigation that the FBI should be required to record their interviews rather than relying on their notes. FBI agents' recollections seem to be fluid and imprecise. If body cams are good for your average officer, then it should be acceptable to the FBI. Even then, there should be methods to prevent FBI manipulation of those recordings.

narciso said...

Is there right these pirates did not trample on

Aggie said...

Poison, masquerading as self-righteous zeal.

Christopher B said...

@Leland, not a bad idea but this was an attorney-attorney conversation.

Howard (not that Howard) said...

"It sounds like a reasonable ploy by the prosecution. A classic negotiation move."

If the prosecutor threatened to charge the lawyer's kid with something, is that also "a classic negotiation move?" I fail to see that threatening a defendant's lawyer with retaliatory moves as "a reasonable ploy."

EdwdLny said...

Garbage behaviors by garbage people part of a turd bucket administration and party.
In past times these people would be swinging in the breeze, by the neck until dead. Perhaps it's time to revisit those actions. They've certainly earned it.

Bob Boyd said...

So what happened with the judgeship nomination? Did he get it? Was it derailed in a spectacular, Buttigiegesque mushroom of toxic smoke billowing from half a mile of burning, twisted metal or did it just roll off into the weeds like a lost hubcap?

iowan2 said...

Jack Smith using the Judge appointment as leverage against DJT?

To deny it happen is a lie. That is probably the closest to ethical the entire prosecution has ever got to.

This is a DOJ that repeatedly lied to the FISA court . . .to SPY on a Presidential Campaign. But somehow leveraging a judgeship is a bridge too far for the DOJ?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Smith is dirty. That's why he worked for ICC in the Hague.

narciso said...

Its typical for dread pirate who left the country to fraudulently prosecute the kosovo pm so he could not be disbarred

roger said...

...because we live in a Bana Republic....

Narayanan said...

@Leland, not a bad idea but this was an attorney-attorney conversation.
=============
so? what is your point?

recording requirement + copy to person interviewed and recorded!
so that there is no misplaced dog eaten!

narciso said...

Politico misses the point, there was no case so they wanted to knee cap defense counsel

There was no case with most of j 6 so thr prosecutors and the staffer erased altered or omitted evidence

narciso said...

As a consequence six defendants have committed suicide four men and women were killed by capital police but tell us again about insurrection!

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Modern Democrat leftist party is the party of lies and corruption.

narciso said...

They put peter navarro and co in jail for what reason which document did they not volunteer

Of course we know what judge mehta enablef through inaction massive obstruction of justice from hillary and associate counsel

narciso said...

They disbarred eastman over legitimate theories about alternate elector selection

Howard said...

More triggering of snowflakes when they see how the sausage is actually made.

Dude1394 said...

Whomever is with the doj, fbi and our government are LYING. They have been lying for 4 years and more. Our government is getting very close to being illegitimate.

narciso said...

Judge cannon has been cutting through the augean stables with great deliberation

This was why the special master was blocked so they couldnt review the files

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

What's the old saying about lawyers who have to resort to "pounding the table," in this case banging a lectern? (At least it was not erroneously labeled a podium.)

Gee and we thought the fake TOP SECRET cover sheets Smith's Raiders brought with them to fake up photos at MAL would be the contentious part. Or the part where Smith admitted the evidence is irretrievably out of order as delivered to the defense. Or the shoot-to-kill order from Garland anticipating "blue on blue" gunplay between the FBI and USSC. So much bungling! So much evil!

Who still believes it can be coincidental that so much was done so improperly?

Todd said...

Well if you are literally Hitler, there is no bridge that they will not cross to get him

The irony is literally, had Hitler been around to stand trial, every official involved would have bent over backwards to ensure everything was fair, open, and honest; (a) they actually had a case(s), (b) they would have wanted the entire world to see that this was no kangaroo court, and (c) they [mostly?] were decent folks involved.

None of that exists here and both the Government and the court goes out of its way to prove it is so.

rehajm said...

It fries their fannies but Trump is so clean they need to do this shit. It is so fucking ugly to discover what dog shit so many lawyers are.

wishfulthinking said...

ga6 said...
But in this case the judge is not from Bogota

Actually, I believe that judge Cannon's mother spent some time living in Colombia. A Cuban refugee from the lefts enslaved island.

I wonder how much, if any, of judge Canon's perspective was influenced by her mother's experience in Cuba.

Leland said...

I appreciate the point Christopher B. To Narayanan, I can understand having a bit of freedom for attorneys to discuss ideas in the way attorneys and clients should be able to discuss ideas without Michael Cohen recording the conversation. Still, I'm having more and more difficulty trusting anything the FBI says these days because they seem to use procedures that allow them to hide and manipulate details. All that said, if the FBI lawyer starts a meeting with a lawyer representing Trump about Donald Trump by calling him "not a Trump Lawyer", well WTF is the FBI Lawyer implying?

And shame on the NYT for downplaying that "some" of the allegations of prosecutorial misconduct are "unfounded", because that's the same as some allegations of prosecutorial misconduct are founded and how the hell is that happening in such an important case? Doesn't the US deserve better prosecutors when going after former Presidents and political rivals? Should the NYT demand better from such prosecutors? The NYT seems to understand the complaints of BLM, but then toss those ideas aside when it used against people they don't like. You can bet the NYT does that often since they do it at all.

FredSays said...

When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side, pound the table.

PB said...

I have no doubt that government lawyers attempted to pressure Nauta's lawyer. Given Jack Smith's reputation and past this is something that would likely to be demanded of anyone on his team.

Bruce Hayden said...

“In laying out evidence of what he asserted was a vindictive prosecution, Mr. Nauta’s lawyer, Stanley Woodward Jr., told Judge Cannon that during his first meeting with the government in August 2022, a prosecutor, Jay I. Bratt, mentioned that he had recently read that Mr. Woodward had applied to be a judge in Washington and hoped that he did not do anything to “screw it up.””

Just a note. Jay Bratt was not just “A” prosecutor, but rather was “THE” prosecutor running the case. Judge Cannon knows this, and also knows that much of the slime and underhanded behavior on the government’s side of the case has come from him. Bratt was named Deputy Special Counsel by Smith to run the FL case, while Smith ran the DC case. But Bratt isn’t a normal DOJ prosecutor. He has a day job, which is as the branch chief for the DOJ’s National Security Division’s Counterintelligence and Export Control Branch (CECB). It is the sister organization to the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division (CD). You remember the Counterintelligence Division (CD)? That’s where Peter Strzok and Kevin Clinesmith worked, as well as the agents who interviewed NSA LTG Flynn in their § 1001 perjury trap and FARA criminalization prosecution of him that forced him out of office. They ran the Midyear Exam (Clinton email) and Crossfire Hurricane (Trump RussiaGate) investigations. It was Strzok and his girlfriend Lisa Page who suggested the out that Dir Comey used to exonerate Clinton, and accepted her emails on paper, eliminating the metadata that would have allowed easy de-duplication when a large cache of Clinton emails were found on her aide’s (Huma’s) home laptop. They both (CECB and CD) also were involved in fraudulently acquiring the four FISA warrants on Carter Page, presumably to electronically surveil Trump and his inner circle (through the FISA Two Hop rule) even after Trump was in the WH. And, of course, the binder of classified documents formally ordered declassified Trump’s last full day in office detailed the misfeasance, malfeasance, and perfidy of these two organizations, as evidenced by two Special Counsel and a DOJ IG investigations. Probably not surprisingly, 3 1/2 years later, FOIA requests are still showing these documents as still classified, despite Trump’s formal, signed, order to declassify them.

Meanwhile, back to CECB branch chief and Deputy Special Counsel Jay Bratt. It very much appears that the FL classified documents case was his from the very beginning. We now know that it started early in the FJB Administration with meetings between WH attorneys and AG Garland (yes, it was political from Day 1). Out of that, presumably came the WH order for NARA to cooperate fully with the FBI (CD). It is then that Bratt’s involvement becomes clearly evident. This allowed the FBI/DOJ to request through NARA that Trump return any documents that he had that were marked as classified (presumably including that aforementioned binder declassified by Trump). They had no probable cause to subpoena them, until, again probably cooperating with the FBI, NARA (illegally) issued a criminal referral for Trump’s failure to respond on a timely basis. A subpoena signed by Bratt. He also refused requests by Trump’s attorneys for an extension of time and for rolling discovery. He then used their failure to provide those documents to him on a timely basis as a justification for the MAL search warrant (which authorized lethal force to be used against Trump and the Secret Service). And, he then signed the initial indictment based on what they allegedly found in the MAL search. It is also likely that he was the one running the DC grand jury that so offended Judge Cannon (that’s where his day job is).

So, no, Jay Bratt isn’t just one of the prosecutors involved. He is very likely the mastermind behind the entire setup.

Drago said...

Over-compensating Non-combat "vet" Howitzer Howard: "More triggering of snowflakes when they see how the sausage is actually made."

LOL

The sort of thing one writes when one wants to jump into the conversation with the big boys but has no idea what the topic really is or the issues in play.

Yancey Ward said...

If you are a target of a government organization, make sure you record every single meeting, and if they don't agree to that, then end the meeting. These people cannot be trusted to behave ethically.

mezzrow said...

Looks like a key node in the network has self identified.

Quick, find a broom and a rug. Thanks to commenter Hayden for the history.

Jupiter said...

Hey, is this Bratt person maybe a corrupt piece of shit who belongs in prison?

Are there any honest men left in the Democrat gang?

Yancey Ward said...

"The sort of thing one writes when one wants to jump into the conversation with the big boys but has no idea what the topic really is or the issues in play."

Exactly. Howard (that Howard) is embarrassed by what is happening but rather than condemn it wants people to not get upset about it because it is how the sausage is made.

Chuck said...

Then file a grievance, Woodward. Or a motion. What exactly is your allegation, and what is the relief you are requesting?

I understand perfectly the position that Harbach is taking with respect to "garbage arguments." What he is contending is that Woodward is tossing out allegations as smokescreen instead of tangible litigation arguments. That's the "garbage" part. Now Harbach can and certainly will say that Woodward's main allegations, such as they are, are wrong. Woodward can and should make whatever serious allegations he thinks are merited. I would never discount that; I might even welcome it. But doon't confuse those arguments on the merits with "garbage." The "garbage" part is just tossing out the allegation without the requisite seriousness and requisite supportive information (and here I am not even raising a standard of "evidence").

Althouse your legal expertise in some of the most complex areas of the law is unquestioned. Your status as a preeminent professor of law is likewise unquestioned. But we are in an extended season of Trump civil and criminal trials. But I am curious; have you ever first-chaired a civil or criminal trial?

Bruce Hayden said...

“And shame on the NYT for downplaying that "some" of the allegations of prosecutorial misconduct are "unfounded", because that's the same as some allegations of prosecutorial misconduct are founded and how the hell is that happening in such an important case? Doesn't the US deserve better prosecutors when going after former Presidents and political rivals? “

Remember, this was apparently Jay Bratt, deputy Special Counsel and CECB Branch Chief. And remember that CECB was up to their eyebrows in the DOJ/FBI shenanigans run against Trump and his people while he was a Presidential candidate, President-Elect, and President. The CD agents illegally used the unminimized transcripts of Flynn’s phone call against him, in their § 1001 Obstruction perjury trap. But it was the DOJ, and presumably their CECB, that prosecuted Flynn for that, as well as that criminalized FARA, and then got Flynn to plead guilty in order to prevent his son, whose wife was pregnant their first child, from going to prison, with a companion FARA indictment. Yes - that’s what you need to keep in mind here, in determining whether these charges against Bratt are credible, the way that they coerced LTG Flynn to plead out and resign. I am not suggesting that this is standard practice with the DOJ, but rather that it does appear to be with Bratt’s CECB.

narciso said...

Right syme keep groveling to the deep state

Just an old country lawyer said...

"Nice judicial career you're looking at, Woodward. It would be too bad if you let your nobody client screw it up for you. Don't be a chump."

hombre said...

This retired prosecutor will believe there is no "prosecutorial misconduct or political gamesmanship" when Smith charges Biden and Pence and stops hiding stuff.

Breezy said...

A poisonous parasitic mob seems to have embedded itself into our once beloved DoJ. Where do we go to get our Law and Order and Judicial Restraint back?

Or maybe its more like the large wide-mouth catfish that are invading various US waters, eating everything, leaving nothing for any other species.

What do the Bratt’s have over the lesser prosecutors, like Harbach (I presume)? Is everyone on board because they too have been threatened in some way?

hombre said...

We have all seen that the Biden DOJ operates at the highest levels of professionalism and integrity. Why would anyone believe its lawyers would stoop to these sorts of things? Bwahahahaha!!

Bruce Hayden said...

“The CD agents illegally used the unminimized transcripts of Flynn’s phone call against him, in their § 1001 Obstruction perjury trap.”

Just a quick explanation. FISA, after the PATRIOT act, requires that electronic surveillance of US Persons in the US (which Flynn of course was at the time) captured through the use of a FISA warrant on another, be minimized. That means that anything identifying the US Person non-target needs to be anonyminized. There is one exception - when the surveillance discloses a crime on their part. But that’s not what happened with Flynn. Instead, the unminimized transcripts were utilized to manufacture the crime (§ 1001 Obstruction). The FBI CD agents knew what was said on the call, because they had the unminimized transcripts of the call in front of them. Flynn did not. Flynn even commented on that - that he expected that they knew exactly what he had said, for just that reason.

Deep State Reformer said...

Misinformation like this headline is how Deep State narratives are built. For every prole or cube creature that sees that on their notebook, work pc, or phone there are many, many more who will read the headline and then swipe, but even so they got the meme though, right? This is how it's done folks. The cynical dodge that "well this is just for the clicks" is also true, but it's far less effective because state media types understand those who click & read a headline like that are going to be the rage-heads on either extreme. It's built into the recipe.

Howard (not that Howard) said...

Blogger Howard said...
More triggering of snowflakes when they see how the sausage is actually made.

Jeeeeeeeesus. Congrats on vomiting up the most fatuous comment we'll read all day.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Shorter Howard - (the icky one)

"Stop whining. Leftists are allowed their corruption"

Joe Smith said...

Anti-Trumpers take no prisoner and will stop at nothing.

Republicans in general are weak and follow the rule book, which is why they usually lose...

mccullough said...

When Trump gets elected again, this guy is getting his judgeship.

Well played.

The prosecutor should have said that Bratt, who was sitting there, was also ready to testify. But he didn’t.

That was a fuckup. Most prosecutors are fuckups

Yancey Ward said...

"Jeeeeeeeesus. Congrats on vomiting up the most fatuous comment we'll read all day."

You don't give That Howard enough credit- it is only 12:30 p.m. in Massachusetts.

Mason G said...

"It fries their fannies but Trump is so clean they need to do this shit."

Trump isn't (or, at least, wasn't always) a politician like his opponents. They think that he's got to have as many skeletons in his closet as they do and they're insistent on continuing the search until they find them. In their minds, there's no way he's not guilty of *something*, even if they have to make it up.

Rocco said...

roger said...
“...because we live in a Bana Republic....”

I dunno, from the little I know about Eric, he seems like an alright guy. OTOH, he is Australian, and a lot of the news out of there lately has not been good. So the comparison may be right.

imTay said...

Our courts are completely corrupt, but don't worry, the election was on the up and up because the courts said so when they refused to hear any evidence on specifics.

Our government is illegitimate, end of story.

Vance said...

Chuck, the Democrat party water carrier, is crying about this and claiming that this is a "garbage argument" that should have been made in a motion.

If Chucky boy had read Althouse's post carefully, he would see that the argument was made in two motions to the Court.

So looks like Chucky boy is going to have to eat his words, again.

What's the next excuse, Chuck? How else can you excuse your precious Garland and Jack Smith trying to extort the attorneys for people the Biden administration hates?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Most people know that "how the sausage is made" refers to legislating, not a judicial proceeding. Try and be less below average, Howard. Oh, and we are celebrating, not melting down like snowflakes. Maybe you should just shun all metaphor and bromide use until you get a better handle on the American vernacular.

Hassayamper said...

Why wouldn't Trump's people videotape every single interaction they have with any cop, FBI agent, prosecutor, or other government functionary?

Have they not yet figured out that a solid majority of our hired help in the so-called civil service are in fact rabid Democrat activists bent on using the powers of their offices to oppress conservatives in general and Trump in particular?

Michael K said...

Trump isn't (or, at least, wasn't always) a politician like his opponents. They think that he's got to have as many skeletons in his closet as they do and they're insistent on continuing the search until they find them. In their minds, there's no way he's not guilty of *something*, even if they have to make it up.

I agree with this completely. In spite of all the efforts to dig up some criminal actions on his part, he must be the most honest guy who ever lived in New York City.

Michael K said...

We now know that it started early in the FJB Administration with meetings between WH attorneys and AG Garland (yes, it was political from Day 1). Out of that, presumably came the WH order for NARA to cooperate fully with the FBI (CD). It is then that Bratt’s involvement becomes clearly evident. This allowed the FBI/DOJ to request through NARA that Trump return any documents that he had that were marked as classified (presumably including that aforementioned binder declassified by Trump). They had no probable cause to subpoena them, until, again probably cooperating with the FBI, NARA (illegally) issued a criminal referral for Trump’s failure to respond on a timely basis.

Here it is well to remember that Obama appointed this NARA Director, thereby turning the NARA into a political operation. This whole thing was a setup.

gadfly said...

"Bratt attempted to pressure him into convincing Nauta to cooperate against Trump by threatening to affect a potential judgeship nomination....“I had been recommended for a judgeship, that’s beyond dispute,” Woodward said Wednesday."

Woodward is a liar and a Republican without even a fat chance of being appointed to a judgeship by the Biden administration. Previously our Trump-paid attorney represented co-defendants, Yuscil Taveras and Walt Nauta, with conflicts of interest in the stolen document case. Taveras eventually provided information that implicated Trump's "bodyman," Nauta, Carlos De Oliveira, the property manager at Mar-a-Lago, and Trump in their efforts to delete security camera footage.

Chuck said...

Vance said...
Chuck, the Democrat party water carrier, is crying about this and claiming that this is a "garbage argument" that should have been made in a motion.

If Chucky boy had read Althouse's post carefully, he would see that the argument was made in two motions to the Court.

So looks like Chucky boy is going to have to eat his words, again.

What's the next excuse, Chuck? How else can you excuse your precious Garland and Jack Smith trying to extort the attorneys for people the Biden administration hates?


I am aware of one motion; PRESIDENT TRUMP'S MOTION FOR RELIEF RELATING TO THE MAR-A-LAGO RAID AND UNLAWFUL PIERCING OF THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. (The second defense motion was, I am quite sure, unrelated to the claim of any Bratt "threat.") Here's a Chrome extension link:

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.566.0.pdf

I read it. Not sure if that link will work for you; if not, too bad. Find it yourself. Woodward does not make the "Bratt threatened me" argument in the motion and brief. And that motion was the one that was argued in the morning session before Judge Cannon, in which Woodward made his Bratt-claim, and which resulted in the heated oral aregument.

Now, if there is a second motion that calls out the Bratt "threat," please do let me know. If you don't find anything like what you claimed, you should let me know about that too.

Howard said...

This type of prosecutorial arm twisting has been happening since the days of Hammurabi. Now that it is affecting the man that you worship more than God itself, you picture it is somehow new and unique and unfair and a tragedy and a sign of end times.

Big boys, indeed, LOL.

mccullough said...

Howard,

I agree.

This is standard stuff from prosecutors.

But they are now whining that the lawyer turned the tables on them.

Losers make excuses. Winners fuck the prom Queen.

Rafe said...

“Mr. Harbach eventually conceded that words to that effect had in fact been used at the meeting.”

Well, well, well.

Start picking at that thread, and the whole prosecutorial straight-jacket will unravel very, very quickly.

- Rafe

effinayright said...

Howard said...
This type of prosecutorial arm twisting has been happening since the days of Hammurabi. Now that it is affecting the man that you worship more than God itself, you picture it is somehow new and unique and unfair and a tragedy and a sign of end times.

Big boys, indeed, LOL.
**************

NO, you grotesque FUCKWIT. The prosecution threatening a criminal attorney if the latter doesn't "play ball" is NOT "arm twisting or "negotiation." It is an attempt to deny the defendant's 14th Amendment Due Process rights and his right to "effective counsel" under the Sixth Amendment.

Herring v. New York, 422 U.S. 853, 858, 864–65 (1975). “[T]he right to the assistance to counsel has been understood to mean that there can be no restrictions upon the function of counsel in defending a criminal prosecution in accord with the traditions of the adversary factfinding process that has been constitutionalized in the Sixth and Fourteenth Amendments.” Id. at 857.

IF PROVEN, Dangling a judgeship for good behavior would be an impermissible "restriction" upon the right to counsel.

So please shut your chowder hole.


Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Gadfly is unaware how blue slips work in the Senate. It's how plenty of cross-party nominations get made and confirmed.

Back to the main story, Julie Kelly has detailed every step of the Big Set-up that Hayden has laid out here, including Brat's many WH meetings (many) with Garland to plan the FARA scam. Now we'll probably get the Media Matters-generated spin (published last summer) to cover Brat's tracks from Gadfly and Chuck. But Kelly had the transcripts (and published them on X recently) where Smith admitted it all, not willingly of course. Those were the grand jury transcripts he wanted 95% redacted and Cannon said nope, not how that works, Chud.

The dick.

Jamie said...

Woodward is a liar and a Republican without even a fat chance of being appointed to a judgeship by the Biden administration.

But I thought Democrats appointed judges and justices based solely on their solid legal credentials and judicial temperament!

I'm so disillusioned now.

FullMoon said...

Bruce Hayden and Chuck are both lawyers.

Who would you trust?

effinayright said...

I have a suspicion Chuck and Howard would both think it just fine if the stammering lawyer in "My Cousin Vinnie" had secretly worked out a deal with the prosecutors to fake his condition in return for a judgeship.

No biggie.

Sausage.

Frickin' Hammurabi.

Goldenpause said...

It has gotten to the point that no one should have a conversation with any one working for the FBI or DOJ without at least having a witness present. The abuses of power are both breath taking and appalling.

imTay said...

Either Gadfly is the *perfect* rube, or he knows exactly what kinds of deception he is spreading.

Vance said...

I think old Chucky has forgotten that a Motion may be made orally.... It is clear that this was a discussion being directed to the Court. Isn't that what you demanded, Chuck?

Unlike the left "lawyering by Press release!" this bombshell was dropped in open court as part of an argument before the judge.

Now then: presume that it is true that the Government is threatening the lawyers for a criminal defendant, as alleged.

Why do you support this kind of thing? You clearly are on the side of the thugs in government here.

ussmidway said...

"From 2010 to 2015, Smith served as the head of the DOJ's public integrity unit, which oversees investigations and prosecution of federal crimes affecting government integrity, according to the DOJ. This includes tackling cases like bribing government officials and election crimes, investigating and prosecuting elected and appointed officials of all levels."

So this guy Smith was the fox guarding the hen house for Obama & Holder when Hunter was taking 70+ flights on AF2 with his Dad, the VP, to close all the deals for Biden Bribery, Inc. Nothing to see here says the Bribery Watchman, Jack Smith -- what an incompetent fool -- HLS should rescind his JD in shame and embarrassment. How does this failure not disqualify Smith from any role in Main Justice?

Achilles said...

Howard said...

This type of prosecutorial arm twisting has been happening since the days of Hammurabi. Now that it is affecting the man that you worship more than God itself, you picture it is somehow new and unique and unfair and a tragedy and a sign of end times.

Big boys, indeed, LOL.


You are really not going to like it when we start treating you like you have been treating us.

Jake said...

Well, yeah. We said that stuff, but we didn't mean what it sounded like we meant.

Jake said...

Wondering how many cases Chuck tried.

Achilles said...

Michael K said...

Trump isn't (or, at least, wasn't always) a politician like his opponents. They think that he's got to have as many skeletons in his closet as they do and they're insistent on continuing the search until they find them. In their minds, there's no way he's not guilty of *something*, even if they have to make it up.

I agree with this completely. In spite of all the efforts to dig up some criminal actions on his part, he must be the most honest guy who ever lived in New York City.

I would say on the planet.

I apparently have committed more felonies than Trump has. Trump is probably 1 of double digits people in the country that could be investigated so thoroughly and come out clean.

Achilles said...

FleetUSA said...

It sounds like a reasonable ploy by the prosecution. A classic negotiation move.

They weren't going after the person being charged.

They were going after his lawyer.

Many think we should disbar any lawyer that represents a foreign terrorist. What do you think the lefties would say about that?

Drago said...

Over-compensating Non-combat "vet" Howitzer Howard: "This type of prosecutorial arm twisting has been happening since the days of Hammurabi. Now that it is affecting the man that you worship more than God itself, you picture it is somehow new and unique and unfair and a tragedy and a sign of end times."

LOL

You dont HAVE to keep digging you know.

Well, at least you tried.....

Yancey Ward said...

"Wondering how many cases Chuck tried."

You can contact Chuck's clients at the state pen.

Iman said...

Don’t know nothin’ ‘bout birthin’ no babies, but I DO know we don’t need no meatheads talkin’ ‘bout sausage makin’!

Leland said...

Just want to note that Judge Cannon seems to have thicker skin than Judge Merchan.

Chuck said...

Vance said...
I think old Chucky has forgotten that a Motion may be made orally.... It is clear that this was a discussion being directed to the Court. Isn't that what you demanded, Chuck?


This is emabarassing to me. Embarassing, that I am arguing Federal Criminal Procedure with some non-lawyer dude on the internet.

So now you think that Woodward was making "a Motion... orally"? A motion for what, exactly? A motion requesting what relief? Have you checked the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure? Have you checked Local Rule 7.1 of the Southern District of Florida?

As I say, this is embarassing to be asking questions that would leave 1st year law students shaking their heads in disbelief. Which brings me to the question of where you, Vance, went to law school and in which courts have you practiced?

You have proven the very simple point that I wished to make to the good faith readers here. That precise point being that it is not exactly "garbage" if in fact OSC attorney Jay Bratt somehow threatened defense attorney Woodward. I don't think that happened, but in any event that is not what is deserving of the "garbage argument" appellation. No; I say again for the impaired readers that the "garbage argument" is the fact that something that was not in a motion or a brief was being argued by Woodward, claiming that Bratt threatened him, at an oral argument where Harbach was representing the OSC.

It is remarkable to me, reading more and more pleadings filed by a whole range of Trump attorneys in many different cases; how representing Trump changes them. Trump has latched on to a number of formerly-respected trial lawyers along the way. The most respected of them usually don't last long; but in any case, the pleadings filed on behalf of Trump, more often than not, take on a kind of punk-ass nastiness that you'd never expect from those same attorneys in any other case. The SDFL classified documents case is one of the clearest examples. I hate Trump, of course; but I can pretty easily separate attorneys whom I respect from clients who I dilsike. But now having read a number of the Mar-A-Lago pleadings, I really hate these Trump lawyers. I am really glad that this is going to be such a clear case to convict Trump. I want to see this guys take the big loss.

Harun said...

I do not understand why in Trump's case, they decide to charge a peon helper, like Nauta. (Oh, I know why, to get a conspiracy charge and hope the peon rolls on the boss.)

But Hur decides Biden is "too old" and doesn't try to nail his "helpers" like Kathy Chung - maybe Biden will roll on her, and they can convict someone?

Naaaaaah, its not a crime when a Democrats does stuff. Except gold bars.

Harun said...

Reminder: if you think Trump people deleting videos are bad, then what about Biden's biographer deleting files?

Again, no conspiracy charges. No charges on randos who are just working. When Dems delete files its all okay.

Rule of law doesn't work that way.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Just want to note that Judge Cannon seems to have thicker skin than Judge Merchan”

My guess is that Merchan doesn’t care if he is reversed, and is probably expecting it. So, it really doesn’t matter right now what he does. Cannon doesn’t want to be reversed here, because ultimately she isn't going to convict Trump. Period. So, she is dotting her I’s and crossing her T’s, while Merchan isn’t bothering to. I think that the prosecution in the FL case knows that they aren’t going to win, so are letting their frustration get out. Judge Cannon knows what’s in the redacted documents that the prosecution doesn’t want to get out. She seemed to come to her decision on who were the good guys and who were the bad guys, when she found out about Bratt’s DC grand jury. They (the prosecutors) were trying to pull a fast one on her. That’s seems to be when she started holding their feet to the fire. Now they are facing the drip, drip, drip as she continues to order document after document unredacted. The prosecution had classified them and tried to keep them secret to protect themselves and the underhanded way they ran their investigation and case, and not out of any real national security concerns. So, she has that the investigation started in the WH with meetings with Garland, that the FBI were authorized to use deadly force against the Secret Service and Trump, that their audit trail was corrupted, that NARA shipped several pallets of boxes to MAL well after Trump was out of office (why? Was NARA working for Bratt and the FBI there?) Etc. the search warrant called for the FBI to remove documents marked as Classified, and they removed over 100k items, including Trump’s will. Drip, drip, drip.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Rule 47(b) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure provides: " A motion -- except when made during a trial or hearing -- must be in writing, unless the court permits the party to make the motion by other means." So, it appears a motion can be made orally at a hearing, which is where the disputed statement was made.

Even if the statement of Nauta's lawyer wasn't a motion, it clearly is not a "garbage argument" in this context. The context is that Nauta was arguing he is being selectively and vindictively prosecuted. Evidence that Nauta's lawyer was threatened with adverse action on his judicial application if he didn't get Nauta to flip on Trump tends to support that claim.

effinayright said...

Bruce, I enjoy your comments.

But you should make paragraphs your friends.

Bruce Hayden said...

“But you should make paragraphs your friends.”

This may surprise you, but I do try. But I think that it may be the result of 30 years of one type of legal writing. There is legal writing to convince, and there is legal writing to inform, where completeness is more important than understanding. I was a patent attorney, so most of my writing was of the latter type - to inform.

You see this same sort of dense writing a lot with contracts, where every little detail needs sometimes to be spelt out. With patent applications, you almost never are penalized for being over inclusive. That extraneous detail that you throw in may be what saves the application down the road. That’s because patents claims must be novel and nonobvious over the prior art, and there is at least an 18 month lag before you can find out what other applicants have filed and disclosed.

What I talk about here are complex subjects. The war by the counterintelligence parts of the DOJ and FBI against Trump goes back at least eight years. I do wonder how much of it started with the text message exchange between FBI CD employee (and soon branch chief) Peter Strzok, and his girlfriend Lisa Page, who, being a feminist, wanted assurances that they could protect Hillary Clinton, in her run for the Presidency. And when I think of their conversation that day, I think about how fundamentally wrong it was.

But then I back up a level. The successful attack by the FBI/DOJ on LTG Flynn was an attack by the civilian side of the Intelligence Community on the military side. I’m pretty sure that Q, and his Anons were on the other side of that, and the CIA mostly on the FBI side, along with DHS, IRS, etc.

What frustrates me is that the threads have been out there for much of that time. But no one seems to tie them together. For example, everyone seems to assume that Jack Smith was the one behind the FL case against Trump. He may be tokenly in charge of Jay Bratt, just like Garland is tokenly in charge of Smith. But this is the same war against Trump that Strzok, Page, McCabe, etc were fighting 8 years ago. They just now have fairly obvious White House backing.

I will endeavor to do better. I just have a bad tendency to revert to my kitchen sink type of writing (from my work as a patent attorney) when trying to convey a lot of complexity in a minimum of space. So apologies to all.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Keep it up Bruce H any way you can write it.

boatbuilder said...

I would note, along with McCullough, that Woodward made the allegation in a courtroom in which Bratt was present. Bratt could deny it. Under oath. But he apparently didn't. I wonder why?

Chuck said...

Here is an excellent procedural summary of the SDNY Trump documents case focusing on the Woodward-Bratt dispute.

Drago said...

LLR-democratical And Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasis Chuck: "Here is an excellent procedural summary of the SDNY Trump documents case focusing on the Woodward-Bratt dispute."

LOL

Lawfare losers!

Not a single truthfull word in the entire article.

Its Russia Russia Russia level lies all over again.

As you knew it would be and had to be since Aaron Rupar fanboy Chuckles linked to it!