Is this good satire?#believeallwomen. #meshoe #bergdorfdressingroom #loosemeat pic.twitter.com/yzebab8syO
— Roseanne Barr (@therealroseanne) April 23, 2024
"Joe Biden. He raped me right here. In the shoe department of Bergdorf Goodman... I need to sue."
I get the point: You can't trust women who say they've recovered a memory of a rape from the distant past. That's not funny as an idea. Does it become funny when a comedienne enacts it? Theoretically, it could. I don't think this did. To me, it works more as a declaration that E. Jean Carroll should not have won her case against Trump.
Does comedy need to be funny? There is some debate these days on that questioning the centrality of funniness in the performances of some artists who are categorized as comedy. For example, "Does comedy have to be funny?," by the sophomore Monika Narain, last year in the Duke student newspaper. Excerpt:
Take for example Tig Notaro’s 2012 performance at the Largo, a major club in Los Angeles... [S]he began with “Hello. Good evening, hello. I have cancer,” and spent the next 29 minutes working out her feelings onstage....
Or take Hannah Gadsby’s special Nanette, where... she unpeels the psychological layers of building a career off of self-deprecating humor, and what that not only does to a person, but the communities they represent. That if you poke fun at the aspects of your identity that make you a “loser,” then who’s really winning?...
There are numerous examples of comedians who have offered up intimate performances that grapple with the darkest parts of society and break expectations of any one definition of what comedy is “supposed” to be. To say that comedy has to be funny is like saying visual art has to be pretty, or music has to be melodic....
The top show on Netflix right now is "Baby Reindeer," a drama about a comedian. We see some of his comedy routines. In Episode 4, we see how his act begins. He's dressed clownishly, romps about manically, and stops and delivers his first line: "So my mom died today."
That's got to be a reference to the highly respected comedy novel, "The Stranger," which famously begins: "Mother died today. Or, maybe, yesterday; I can't be sure." Oh? It's not comedy? It is comedy? I can't be sure.
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53 comments:
If you want to talk about "Baby Reindeer," avoid spoilers.
I'll put up a post at some point where spoilers will be okay.
I highly recommend this show, but avoid spoilers here.
I don't think she was going for comedy here.
False allegations met with serious legal financial penalties are not joke.
Now this is funny. (for gadfly.)
That's not funny.
I just saw an ad on Fox where the gag is a guy is applying for jobs in a mall. He says he’s been indicted for 88 felonies and been found liable for sexual assault.
"the stranger" by Albert Camus is a "comedy"? I read it 50 years ago in school and remember it being anti-comedy. Depressing.
Comedy has to at least try to be funny. Funny is the definition of comedy. Not all comedy will be funny to all nor should it be.
John Henry
I believe her as much as I believe E. Jean Carroll
I don't see the Roseanne bit as comedy. It is mockery. We'll deserved mockery and we need more mockery of Carroll and her ridiculousness.
Fuck these people
John Henry
I actually found Roseanne’s little skit to be funny.
Is there something wrong with me?
For me, most professional comedy isn't funny just like most professional music isn't pleasing to my ears.
There's no accountability for individual flavor preferences.
Funny is completely subjective. My tweener grandsons laugh at the dumbest shit that couldn't possibly be funny in any universe.
A comic genius like Richard Pryor can mix personal issues and tragedies into his comedy, and still make it funny. But using an audience to “work out your feelings” crosses the line into taking advantage of a captive audience. I would not call that comedy, I’d call that narcissism.
As far as Camus goes, read The Plague. Now that’s a laugh riot.
You can't trust women who say they've recovered a memory of a rape from the distant past
Obviously, some repressed memories are real. But the ones where liberal women come forward after decades to attack conservative men are bullshit. It's like the hysterical girls who sent their neighbors to the gallows during The Salem Witch Trials.
In this context Rosanne is just illustrating its absurdity. Rosanne isn't the one damaging the "believe all women" mantra. I don't think she's trying to make you laugh here. It's dark comedy addressing a very dark reality in modern liberal America.
"Comedy has to at least try to be funny. Funny is the definition of comedy. Not all comedy will be funny to all nor should it be."
Who makes these rules and why would they matter?
"Comedy has to at least try to be funny."
Ironically, *trying* to be funny isn't funny.
It is a well-known fact that women NEVER lie, nor do they ever bear false witness. It's and unbreakable virtue that comes with possessing a vagina.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
Ironically, *trying* to be funny isn't funny.
Ann. I'd imagine this one hurts. Knowing E. Jean Carroll and Christine Blasey Ford were lying about their decades old sexual assault memories, as a feminist this hits close to home.
The damage done to legitimate feminist efforts is greater than the damage done to Trump and Kavanaugh. Same thing with the fake Duke Lacrosse scandal, and the Rolling Stone "A Rape on Campus."
I don't think Rosanne is trying to be funny here. She is pointing out the asinine.
Ironically, *trying* to be funny isn't funny.
The dork trying to tell jokes or be witty is a staple character in every rom-com.
Roseanne herself does not claim to be doing comedy or label herself, here, as a comedienne. I brought that up. I also used the word "satire." I did that mainly because I know — how do I know? — that she does not intend the accusation — "Joe Biden raped me" — to be true nor does she intend it to be viewed as a lie. And it's not sarcasm in the sense of saying the opposite of what you mean — as in "Yeah, sure, Joe Biden raped me."
We get it easily, though. She's paralleling E. Jean Carroll and causing us to think that's why E. Jean Carroll didn't belong in court.
On the legal point, I've got to add that E. Jean Carroll didn't sue Trump for raping her. She sued Trump for saying that he didn't rape her.
Joe Biden DID shower with his young daughter...and Progressives laugh and laugh because they find nothing wrong with it, since it was Joe Biden.
Yah, she’s pointing out the absurdity. It’s closer to the roast with one key difference - at the roast the target is beloved. Here we want the target to FOAD.
We may get our wish with CBF now that her ship has come in…
And E. Jean got 81 million for suing Trump for saying he didn't rape her...and that is the joke of our times.
When you drag an eight figure payday through a psychologist’s waiting room there’s no telling what you’ll find…
What if she were to joke about it on The Mole's show?
I think Roseanne is excellent at mocking things. And it shows here.
You can't beat Victor Borge.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"Ironically, *trying* to be funny isn't funny."
Yeah. It's not funny in the vein of Trevor Noah and Seth Meyers.
AA said: "She sued Trump for saying that he didn't rape her."
Proclaiming one's innocence is actionable? Who knew?
I sat down to watch "The Bear," which won the most recent best comedy Emmy. Two episodes, no laughs. Look around on the internet - no, it doesn't turn funny after a while.
To me, it works more as a declaration that E. Jean Carroll should not have won her case against Trump.
So what? She shouldn’t have won. E. Jean Carroll should be waterboarded to see if we can help her recover the rest of her bogus memories of the event, like when it actually happened.
Women lie. Get used to it.
Does comedy need to be funny?
Yes.
To say that comedy has to be funny is like saying visual art has to be pretty, or music has to be melodic...
Yes, comedy has to be funny. No, visual arts fo not have to be “pretty.” As for music, I walked out of a performance of someone’s atonal “masterpiece” by the Cleveland Philharmonic in the Kennedy Center some 40+ years ago. I never went back to the Kennedy Center for an orchestral performance again. Wife and I were young and not born to wealth, so the money for those tickets was hard come by.
Some stupid little sophomore disagrees? Oh! She’s female. In Althouse’s world that means attention must be paid. In my world there’s a reason why “sophomoric” has the meaning it does.
Rush Limbaugh once said, "I have illustrated the absurd with absurdity, three hours a day, five days a week."
Applies here.
It is satire, I would say good satire. It will get the appropriately dismissive and condescending comments from the expected groups. She will be called out for "making light" of the tragedy of rape by all the same people that righteously supported Carroll and Ford bacause "shut up".
The guy with the 88 felony charges should go to a Blue State where they have a “ban the box” law (to protect Black Folx) to seek work.
Roseanne’s bit is funny both because recovered memories are absurd, and Bergdorf Goodman’s is an absurd location. (But it’s indelible in the Hippocampus.)
The Bear was supposed to be comedy? Wow. I enjoyed the show, but it was such a realistic representation of restaurant life it was painful to watch. Never occurred to me that it might be comedy, more like a horror show.
I believe, depending on which verdict you are referencing, that EJC sued DJT for calling her a liar, not saying that he didn't rape her.
There are numerous examples of comedians who have offered up intimate performances that grapple with the darkest parts of society and break expectations
Interesting juxtaposition against last weeks post on John Cougar Mellencamp, attempting to interject into his act, something other than his music. The audience, basically told him to shut up and dribble. Nobody cared about his deep thoughts on society.
Rosanne Barr is famous for who she is. Which is an observational comic. Like Seinfeld or Carlin. Known to often offer their unique perspective on current events, but not always with a comedic flare.
Carrot Top, Dangerfield, or Larry the Cable Guy, cannot pull off this kind of content. However I would pay the admission price to get the view of Joan Rivers. I bet that would be hilarious.
EJC sued DJT for calling her a liar, not saying that he didn't rape her.
A distinction without a difference? She sued him for calling her a liar about his having raped her. Not for saying she was lying about her income or whether she enjoys sushi or whatever, but specifically saying that she was lying when she claimed he raped her.
It's the stupidest case I can imagine. How many convicts continue to claim innocence from a cell? Is it actionable that they do so? Even if they don't explicitly claim that their accuser was lying, that's the implicit claim. And considering the tenuousness of her claim in the first place, I'll never understand why Trump didn't countersue her for having continued to claim that he's a rapist when he isn't - a much more damaging thing to say about someone.
Women bearing false witness against men on sexual matters goes back at least to Joseph and Potiphar's wife.
'Does comedy need to be funny?'
It may not be comedy. It might be satire/political expression.
But Barr is famous for being a comedian so she has a very large audience.
She also has fuck-you money as far as I know, so no need to curry favor...
'Who makes these rules and why would they matter?'
The guy in the funny hat who follows you around.
Don't piss him off!
'On the legal point, I've got to add that E. Jean Carroll didn't sue Trump for raping her. She sued Trump for saying that he didn't rape her.'
And that is comedy gold.
It's completely fucked up to live in a country where you are not convicted of a crime, say that you are not guilty of that crime for which you were never convicted, and yet can be liable to pay millions of dollars for stating your innocence.
We may as well just burn the constitution and piss on it. Liberals already have...
No one has brought up the memory of Barr's own recovered "memory" of abuse by her parents. Odd choice of attack for her.
com·e·dy noun
professional entertainment consisting of jokes and satirical sketches, intended to make an audience laugh.
To say that comedy has to be funny is like saying visual art has to be pretty, ...
No it is not. Other than grammar structure - not at all.
art noun
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power:
Unlike with "comedy", there's no mention of humor.
Ann Althouse said...
"Comedy has to at least try to be funny. Funny is the definition of comedy. Not all comedy will be funny to all nor should it be."
"Who makes these rules and why would they matter?"
Comedians. If they can get you to laugh at yourself even better. Comedians want to make you laugh. If you don't believe me, ask them.
Not funny at all. Nor was Nancy Pelosi grabbing my balls in the elevator of the Mark Hopkins in the 80s. Might have been the St Francis but it definitely was in an elevator in San Francisco. Maybe the Fairmont. Middle 80s.
Once a civil jury decided that the preponderance of the evidence showed that Carroll's rape claim was false, how much reputation did she have left that could be damaged by a statement that her sexual assault claim was false?
Ann Althouse said...
We get it easily, though. She's paralleling E. Jean Carroll and causing us to think that's why E. Jean Carroll didn't belong in court.
On the legal point, I've got to add that E. Jean Carroll didn't sue Trump for raping her. She sued Trump for saying that he didn't rape her.
Your cope is pathetic.
E Jean Carroll is a piece of shit.
Everyone that propped her up as a political tool did massive damage to the rule of law and our social fabric.
You cannot support what the courts of New York did in any way and still believe in equal justice under the law.
Does comedy need to be funny?
This "joke" is pretty commonly used now.
There are many variations of the "some obviously lying woman accusing someone the regime doesn't like of rape 20 years ago" joke. It is told in a variety of ways now.
Everyone realizes what is going on.
It doesn't help that Joe Biden is a rapist. Bill Clinton is a rapist too and the women that voted for both known rapists while also claiming to support E Jean Carrol and Christine Blasey Ford are the real joke.
Ms. Narain is dead wrong. Folks have been trying for 25 years or more to push the notion that comedy doesn't have to be funny. Orwell sez, “There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” We have a shining example here.
As the publisher of a website about standup (for 15 years, from '99 to 2014), I've read all the blathering. It's all nonsense. It all peaked with Nanette. (The consensus among professional comics was that Nanette was just a cloud of hype. Strip away all the bathos, pathos and whatever-thos and what you had was a lot of tedious, unoriginal, poorly-executed standup that seems frozen in 1992 or thereabouts. Cringe-y, manipulative "one-man-show-ish" tearjerker slodge of the type that was regularly trotted out at the dozens of comedy "festivals" each year for the past 30 that were, more often than not, merely vehicles concocted by representation and management to showcase their client's depth, to demonstrate that their client was "more than just a comic!" He/she has depth!)
At least in the case of standup, people who weren't very funny sought exceptions to the "It has to be funny" rule. Naturally. They weren't funny, but they wanted to be thought of as funny. Easy solution: Proclaim that standup doesn't have to be funny. Also: They resented the people who were funny, as that pointed out their un-funniness. So, the easy solution in this case was to seek to denigrate those who were funny by alleging that the people who were intentionally funny were gauche, hopelessly cliched, misguided, old guard, irrelevant.
It happens in all the arts.
As someone who has logged decades in hundreds of comedy clubs in North America since 1981, I am here to tell you that Monica Narain is an idiot who doesn't know she's an idiot.
"I’ve based much of my self-worth on my ability to make others laugh..." she says. BINGO. We find out-- in the first paragraph-- why Narain has herped up this blob of nonsense. It's embarrassing. Even if this were true, one doesn't say it out loud.
"Open mic comedy in LA is not only a reflection of the immense dedication and persistence needed to “make it” in the industry, but it’s also a reflection of what humor means in our current time, what and who gets to be funny and why." Oh, my. The embarrassment intensifies.
LA is not "a reflection of what humor means." It's an industry town and it distorts the "meaning" of "humor" and only determines what a razor-thin slice of "what and who gets to be funny."
Comedy can make people reflect, of course. It can make people cry or get angry. It is embarrassing to have to repeat these facts. (It is cringe that someone presents them as something no one has ever thought of before.) But, if it ain't funny, it ain't comedy.
IRC, J. Carroll was NOT raped. And she never claimed she was raped. She said Trump ATTEMPTED to rape her.
She did this, because she had to explain why she never went to the Police or sued Trump after it happened. So, we get "he tried to". So, no DNA evidence. No Police report. No evidence of any kind other than... hey, my word. Convinient, No?
Whats her face, who accused Kavanaugh, couldn't even name the YEAR, she was "raped". Guees she had to wait till Kavanaugh was nominated to the SCOTUS to "recover her memory". Too bad she couldn't recover the date, year, month, or place the "rape" occured. But y'know Female memory.
I told my husband and two other people that Roseanne Barr was claiming that Biden raped her in the Bergdorf Goodman shoe department and all three laughed.
You mean, Christine Blasey Ford *wasn't* a comedian?
Hey Dave Begley: that may be a comedy skit, but it actually happened here in Atlanta. The rapist's name is Lavelle McNutt. He was hired to manage a sports bar after three decades and scores of convicted sex crime and rape cases, all released absurdly early -- one rape in 3 months -- and the Fox Sports Bar still hired him as a manager despite undoubtedly being informed of his record by local police.
I still get letters from his victims. He used his managerial role in the restaurant to access local retail stores to assault women. Security guards from Macy's actually laughed at one victim. A witness to that incident told me some pretty dark stuff about it.
So I find this skit very funny. After all, it represents the real-life experiences of countless real women in a dryly relevant way. And there's no justice: there's just us. At some point part of the humor is that some dumb zipless fuck nympho alcoholic gets patent leather glove treatment from the same legal system that has destroyed thousands of other womens' lives because they weren't politically useful. So, screw it. Screw them. You're not human to them. Some bitter dyke literally blaming society for her molestation or breast cancer is human, but you're not. Cool. I'll act accordingly. Yes, I watched all three shows. Only Roseanne is not hectoring us to not laugh at her joke.
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