The quote became quotable by Althouse blog standards with the use of the word "uglily." I note that it is difficult to say, it draws attention to itself — if you ever happen to say it — and it contains — in defiance of ugliness — a word that expresses loveliness, "lily."
Here's the TikTok Sherman is responding to. It's a lot meatier than the headline makes it sound:
Maybe once you perceive a woman as "hot" — and not just pretty or conventionally attractive — it's hard to find her funny. I don't think that's correct — Marilyn Monroe was both — but that's the deeper ground Jahelis invites us to explore.@jahelis Hoepfulky at least one person out there understands what I’m trying to say #kristinwiig #palmroyale #appletvseries #snl #snlwomen #mayarudolph #jimmyfallon ♬ original sound - Jahelis
Jahelis responded to the reaction to her original video:
“I was expecting to have a dialogue with my community, who is (used) to my unfiltered opinions that rarely come from a place of malice,” she said.... She went on to say that some “racially charged” comments...
Jahelis appears to be black.
... from other users she’s received “is a perfect example of performative feminism that only cares about ‘everyone being nice to each other’ and not actually making changes that improve the lives of women.”
In conclusion, she said, “I would like to apologize to no one and will go on living in a world where apparently Tina Fey looks like Megan Fox.”
It's a very good decision not to apologize.
By the way, I liked Jahelis a lot and am fascinated by the way she periodically speaks incredibly quickly. That's funny. I think she's taking a feminist perspective and inviting dialogue. Presumably, she wants attention, but she's seeking attention with her mind and her expression and is in no way attempting to pose as hotter than other women, which is the saddest form of attention-getting on the internet.
Posts
56 comments:
First of all, it came from a person who uses TikTok, so strike one and two. Further, there are a list of hot SNL cast members, but hotness, or hawtness, if you will, is so subjective. I would put JLD or Kristin Wiig up there for sure and that's just getting started.
Hot, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I submit the very funny and IMO "hot" Julia Louise-Dreyfus for your consideration. And Marisa Tomei. And just to show I can break from type, the highly qualified Lisa Kudrow, also very funny and who tickles my hotness bone.
(That sounds dirtier than I meant it, but WTF. It's supposed to be a riff on "funny bone")
After writing the above I realize that perhaps the TikToker's generation just hasn't produced a woman with those two characteristics yet. I grew up in a country dense with hot brunettes who were funny, from Mary Tyler Moore to Adrienne Barbeau. I pity the youngins who have a dearth of amusing beauties.
'rarely come from a place of malice'
In other words, 'I'm putting this out there 'to my community' so I can guarantee to be triggered, but be assured it'll be 'rarely'. In other words, at my option, and to your disadvantage.
Modern tedium.
Victoria Jackson was overtly "hot". It's a comedienne sweet spot to be a ditz with cleavage. I would include Judy Holliday and Gracie Allen. Marilyn, as you say. Betty Grable. It's a grand tradition that, it seems, this TikToker doesn't know.
Also, uglily is a winner.
Kristen Wiig been on SNL 5 times. She’s kinda hot. I don’t know if she’s funny though.
NY Post: “Kristen Wiig received a star-studded reception last night when she hosted “Saturday Night Live” for the fifth time allowing her to join the elite “Five-Timers Club.””
Had to laugh at "a dialogue with her community." She was expecting to insult celebrities without being called out for it and having to deal with the fact that these are real people she's making fun of.
I nominate Amy Pohler. She is wholesome plus sexy.
The Tik Tok chick is not hot. Nose rings and tattoos look ridiculous unless you are living deep in some jungle.
The Sarah chick I looked up because I haven't watched SNL in 20+ years.
Maybe not 'hot' but very cute.
Would.
Well, a little research reveals that Sarah Sherman is pretty darned cute, looking a lot like the verifiably hot "Lily from AT&T" in one photo, perhaps even dwelling herself in the land of hotness. But, and it's a big but, she's on the current SNL so I have no idea if she's also funny. And maybe that's the catch to what Jahelis was saying.
Gotta agree with our host's verbal sensibilities in highlighting "uglily" too, which actually is not misspelled, to my surprise. And now I've tied it to a real Lily. Well a character, Lily, anyway.
SNL is an extremely hard gig - to create a whole new show every week and perform it live every Saturday takes people who are really driven to do comedy (putting aside whether you think the show is still funny). My theory is not that SNL doesn't hire hot people for the cast because hot people are not funny - instead, I think that people who are very attractive (I think the TikTokker is talking Margo Robbie - level hot) (a) are steered into career paths other than stand-up/improvisational comedy paths at a pretty early age, and (b) can make the leap to movies and TV in a way that people who look like Gilda Radner could not do without going through the SNL-type of process. In other words, way fewer hot people try out for the show. Would love to know if SNL turned down anyone super-hot?
I saw a video where Tina Fey complained that her market value had declined as men no longer viewed her as "fuckable."
My thought? Who were that men that were surveyed for that?? Certainly not me!
I completely disagree with this; Victoria Jackson was a teenaged crush for me.
I also think Sarah Silverman is very cute, but the older she gets, the more the 'cute' wears off.
Monroe seems to fit into what she was saying because Marilyn was a "Dumb blond". First, the number of people who are funny enough to get paid for it is incredibly small. Second, the number of women who are "Hot" is also fairly small. So the number of "hot" and "Funny" women would be miniscule.
And as someone said, there are two kinds of comedians "Those who say funny things, and those who say things funny". Hot women and handsome guys don't "say things funny". So, its back to them being witty. Or maybe engaging in physical comedy. Lucy was "hot" when she was younger but she quickly became funny when she got older, primarily though physical comedy. You can make the case she was "conventionally attractive" but that's about it.
Silverman was pretty when young, but she really wasn't that funny. She was one-trick pony and that wore out fast.
Candance Bergen was hot when she was young and later become funny on "Murphy Brown" - which I didn't think was funny but other people did. Gilda Radner was much funnier than Jane Curtin and much less attractive. I found Wanda Sykes and Lilly Tomlin funny, I don't either would be thought as "hot".
It's funny that people would expect her to apologize for that video of interesting ruminations.
I actually really like Sarah Sherman. I think she is one of the best new hires SNL has made in a long time, and FWIW, I do think she is attractive.
A long time ago I visited Vicksburg, and did a tour of an antebellum house, just to see what it was like. (Quite interesting in fact - lots of different combs for dealing with critturs living on your scalp, and surprisingly cool rooms because of the thick walls.)
The lady giving the tour'n talk was extremely well informed and interesting. Eventually. Because it took about ten minutes for me to tune my ears to the almost-a-different-language deeeeepest Mississippi accent. Fortunately the tour lasted an hour and so only a bit of it was wasted as I tried out different frequencies on my accentometer.
Today's Tik Tok gal was much the same - I caught about one word in three.
serious question:
what hot women DID they have? Jane Curtin? Tina Fey? Amy Poehler?
Tina Fey is hot, funny, and she can make a good joke out of it:
Liz Dresses Provocatively
Kate said...
Victoria Jackson was overtly "hot".
"hot"? you keep using that word.. I no think that word Means what you think it means
Sarah Sherman, not Sarah Silverman.
There has never been a "hot" male cast member either.
And no, Jimmy Fallon and Andy Samberg are not "conventionally attractive".
Even when they play the roles of conventionally attractive men in their skits (Sean Connery, Burt Reynolds, etc.) they male cast members play them for laughs as stupid people.
So once again, what's broadcast as a "women's issue" is actually not gender specific at all.
If one is a hate-filled antisemite then — obviously! — Jewish women are not hot. No matter how good-looking they might be.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
I submit the very funny and IMO "hot" Julia Louise-Dreyfus.. And Marisa Tomei.
And just to show I can break from type, the highly qualified Lisa Kudrow
I'll stipulate, that those are hot.. what years were these SNL cast members?
I'll see your Kudrow, and raise you Aubrey Plaza.. Again.. NOT a SNL cast member
If one is a hate-filled antisemite then — obviously! — Jewish women are not hot. No matter how good-looking they might be.
Words ending in "ly" are adverbs. It would be ugly to deny it.
A lot of comedy depends on a character's not really fitting in, that character's efforts to conceal their perceived shortcomings, and the audience's sympathy toward that character's plight. Chaplin's tramp was all about this, but picture Buster Keaton trying to woo a beautiful girl, or Bob Hope (or Woody Allen) getting into some scary situation and trying to act brave in the face of his obvious cowardice. Almost any kind of insecurity can be played for laughs.
However, it's tougher for an audience to believe that a really beautiful lady HAS a lot underlying insecurities to begin with, or that she'd really have to struggle with them, given that there would always be a man in the (literal/figurative) picture who was more than happy to help her. The funniest female comics were always woman who were (by Hollywood standards) not perceived to be attractive enough to always have a man around to protect and reassure her (e.g., Eve Arden, Joan Rivers).
Here's another paradox: Why are some supremely beautiful women like Greta Garbo or Grace Kelly so lacking in sexual magnetism? And not just compared to Marilyn Monroe. Barbara Stanwyck wasn't in their class so far as looks, but she could bring more smoke. It's hard to rub a spark when the exterior is too smooth and polished.....Where do female comedians fit on on the Madonna/whore spectrum? Does the Madonna/whore spectrum even exist anymore?
Chitter Chatter
Chitter Chatter
Idle hands, as they say.
Chitter Chatter
Chitter Chatter
Idle hands, as they say.
Kristen Wiig is pretty hot. She can turn it on when she wants. Nice legs too...
I believe there was a discussion of beautiful women, comedy, and sarcasm in the comments to this post (but I’m too busy/lazy to go through them).
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2014/08/one-of-most-indelible-images-from-last.html?m=1
I tried to care about this.
Sorry for posting that, but...I couldn't complete my assignment.
Why are people talking about Sarah Silverman?
FWIWAIMHO, Sherman and Silverman might look hot in a dim light, through beer goggles.
The only question that matters: Does this take advance the feminist movement or not?
Superficially, it does not. BAD But, the TikTok person made the case that it does. GOOD
No other takes matter.
(But I think many SNL women are beautiful.)
There has never been a "hot" male cast member either.
Who would have thought that people who aren't the most conventionally attractive might have developed humor to cope, and gone into comedy as a result?
I can't believe the expression "hot" hasn't gone out of style.
I remember when it was a Paris Hilton word.
Is there some reason people can't say "sexy"? I know the word "sex" got replaced by "gender."
Really, Gilbar? Can't believe you doubted me.
Julia Scarlett Elizabeth Louis-Dreyfus (born January 13, 1961) is an American actress, comedienne and producer. She was a cast member on the NBC sketch comedy series Saturday Night Live from 1982 to 1985. [Saturday Night Live Wiki - Fandom]*
On the other hand, the rest of my picks, as you probably surmised, were to rebut the more general "maybe hot chicks aren't funny" that either the TiToker or Althouse raised as possibly being "her point," and in keeping with Althouse's counter-example to that premise of Marilyn Monroe (definitely hot & definitely funny).
For the record, I do NOT consider Kristin Wiig "hot" but again, "eye of the beholder" and all that. I just can't get over the extremely annoying characters she played on SNL, which TBF reminded me of a redheaded ex. But she's funny!
*Bonus fact: Her husband Brad Hall was a cast member SNL too.
She's so gendery!
"Jahelis appears to be black."
That is both the funniest and the saddest thing I have read today.
It’s a fair commentary. I’d add none of the male cast members are movie star handsome either.
I’m picturing Margot Robbie and younger George Clooney as the standard.
But a lot of movie stars nowadays aren’t hit. Adam Driver is interesting looking. He’s not ugly but in no way conventionally handsome.
One the host isn’t hot the quality of the skits is usually better because they can’t rely on the easy contrast of a Jennifer Aniston interacting with the average looking cast.
My vote for best looking SNL cast members over the years are Female: Kirsten Wiig. Male: Pete Davidson.
Kate McKinnon is also attractive. As was younger Chevy Chase
Props to Sarah Sherman for making a joke about it and not coming back with a peevish rant about it, like some other comedians we all know.
(Looking at you Stewart, Colbert, Maher!)
Almost any woman can be considered "hot" if they stay slim and don't have a jacked up face. Sarah Silverman was cute in the 90s before she went Woke.
"Hot" is a term I've never liked. Mainly because it is useless for describing the beauty - or degree of beauty - of a woman.
As best I've been able to determine, it generally means some distressingly malnourished female, with that deformed scoliotic spine posture (which I guess is super-hot), dreadful unnatural-looking subcutaneous thoracic gel bags, and as often as not with carp lips.
Thus its lack of utility to any discerning appreciator of female beauty, insofar as it leaves out all truly beautiful, pretty, cute, attractive, alluring (add your own) women.
I think that @jahelis Hoepfulky is mostly correct. Sure, some female cast members have been conventionally attractive, but none were "hot". Arguably, all of the main female cast members of Friends were hotter than any SNL NRFPT players, so she's also correct about hot women being capable of being funny. Where she strayed was in her choice of really handsome male cast members. Her choices were either "mid" or goofy looking. There were three, that come to mind, who were very handsome, in their SNL days: Chevy Chase, Eddie Murphy and Norm MacDonald. Most of the funniest guys were weird looking though, like Dan Ackroyd.
I like 'hot'. It's fairly generic. 'Sexy' seems very My Parent's Generation.
"I like 'hot'. It's fairly generic. 'Sexy' seems very My Parent's Generation."
Paris Hilton is 43. Did I guess your age?
Anyway, my point about "sexy" isn't that it's up to date, but that we've become more prudish and don't say "sex" anymore. People talk about "gender" even when speaking about an unborn baby.
What I mean about Paris Hilton: here.
"I like 'hot'. It's fairly generic. 'Sexy' seems very My Parent's Generation."
Now the children say that one is "a smoke show."
There used to be stunning, very funny actresses, such as Sue Ane Langdon and Barbara Rhoades, who made their way into every show.
Where the TikTokist ultimately fails by her own terms is on her claim that SNL will hire hot men just not hot women, and then gives as her exemplars of SNL male hotness Jimmy Fallon, Adam Sandberg, Jason Sudeikis, and “even” Bowen.
Here's another paradox: Why are some supremely beautiful women like Greta Garbo or Grace Kelly so lacking in sexual magnetism?
LOL, Greta Garbo and Grace Kelly are not the same. If I was to name a famous beautiful women without sex appeal I'd say Lauren Bacall.
Anyway i would agree beauty doesn't always equal sexy. I'd say Sophia Loren and Deborah Kerr were equally beautiful. Loren was x10 sexier. And Bardot was sexier then Fonda, not more beautiful.
Feminism doesn't mean everyone is hot. Feminism means not everyone needs to be hot.
It seems like many feminists want to assert the former, which is unworkable because it is absurd.
I am having trouble coming up with a conventionally "hot" male who is considered funny. This hot as antagonistic to funny idea is interesting and has come up before.
Now I've thought about this more. Cary Grant was very conventionally attractive and funny. Ryan Gosling is funny. Harold Lloyd was conventionally attractive, but he did have to put on those big glasses for this character, so I don't know if that counts. Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt have done very funny scenes.
But perhaps of these, only Cary Grant counts as someone whose wheelhouse was comedy.
Trying to think of who his female analog would be.
Maybe Carole Lombard. Hm.
I guess the test is, could this person be a conventional movie star, note: not character actor, without comedy?
It's an interesting question.
During the opening credits Heidi Gardner walks thru a doorway in a red dress, and looks quite fuckable.
As does Chloe Fineman stretched out across a piano in a red dress.
Maybe it's just the red dresses.
Lisa Kudrow hot? I never thought so. In fact, I always kinda felt sorry for her because her two female castmates on Friends were hot and she wasn't.
Mr Majestyk : "Lisa Kudrow hot? I never thought so. In fact, I always kinda felt sorry for her because her two female castmates on Friends were hot and she wasn't."
Agreed. Though all three were very irritating.
I always felt Friends was like a Krispy Kreme donut. You often thought it would be worth a bite, why not, but when you did bite, it was sickly sweet, just like the last time you were tempted.
Post a Comment