Althouse: Sooner than never?

December 29, 2023

Sooner than never?

A Daily Beast headline I didn't click on: "Why Trump May Find Himself in Jail Sooner Than He Thinks."

ADDED: That post title — I thought — it sounds like a bad album title. Googling, I see...

47 comments:

Yancey Ward said...: His opponents in both parties want him in jail very, very much, so it would not surprise me if they create some pretext to jail him in the next few months.; 12/29/23, 8:46 AM
Mike Sylwester said...: His popularity will rise even higher.

I myself favor DeSantis, but I really admire Trump's resistance to the Democrats' lawfare.; 12/29/23, 8:48 AM
tim in vermont said...: The US warned Pakistan that if they didn't trump up some charges quick, and throw their most popular politician, Imran Khan, in jail that there would be severe consequences. [Read: Color revolution] So it's not like they don't have a precedent.

The US brewed up a color revolution in 2014 in Kiev because the government there opposed joining NATO, starting a civil war that continues to this day.

There is no reason to believe that they won't throw Trump in jail, to keep Joe Biden's grip on power, and his baleful rictus projected at us on every TV. I am starting to become an "accelerationist," let the whole edifice collapse. Let's stop pretending that we have any kind of political freedom. Maybe if they have every election completely fixed, they can stop turning us against our friends over politics.; 12/29/23, 8:49 AM
Rusty said...: What Mike said.; 12/29/23, 8:53 AM
narciso said...: So no actual basis except stupid lawfare tricks; 12/29/23, 8:59 AM
Gusty Winds said...: 2024 is going to be a shit show. The higher Trump's poll numbers go, the more probability they will put him in jail.

Anybody still pretending any of this is about "protecting democracy" has their head up their ass.

Yesterday the Maine Sec of State decided she could single handedly remove Trump from the Maine ballot.

And of course that idiot from the Minocqua Brewing Company who instigates all kinds of liberal lawsuits in WI is suing to get Trump off the WI Ballot.; 12/29/23, 8:59 AM
Mike Sylwester said...: From The Daily Beast article:
But in New York, where Trump was on trial for nearly three months for lying to banks about his wealth, the threats and countermeasures came in real time. In the absence of any pre-imposed severe legal restriction, Trump blasted out totally false accusations about a supposed romantic relationship between a longtime political nemesis, Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-NY), and the judge’s law clerk, Allison Greenfield. Justice Arthur F. Engoron swiftly tried to shut him up with gag orders forbidding him from attacking court staff, but Trump found ways around those orders.

I did not know that!; 12/29/23, 9:00 AM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: all of these creeps in the Crook Joe biden press have their hands down their pants as they fever-write their nazi dreams.; 12/29/23, 9:04 AM
narciso said...: Imran khan was replaced with sharif after the zardaris the biggest looters in pakistan; 12/29/23, 9:04 AM
Gusty Winds said...: Blogger Mike Sylwester said...
I myself favor DeSantis, but I really admire Trump's resistance to the Democrats' lawfare..

Kudos. I like DeSantis, but obviously I'm fully for Trump.

What I don't get are DeSantis' wishy washy answers when asked about the crazy lawfare being used against Trump. Does DeSantis really believe that if Trump is blocked from the GOP nomination because of all this, MAGA is just going to say "Uh...ok...well just vote for Ron I guess". That's not going to happen.

DeSantis could be Joshua to Trump's Moses. But he's pissing it away. His first mistake was even running this year and going on stage with Pence, Christie, and Bird Brain.

MAGA would support a Trump/DeSantis ticket in 2024.; 12/29/23, 9:06 AM
narciso said...: Lets just call ourselves panem and be djne eith it; 12/29/23, 9:11 AM
hombre said...: Democrats and their consorts have gotten brazen and shameless about their corruption, particularly their corruption of law enforcement and the legal system. It is unlikely that there are any limits to what they will do to keep Trump - maybe any Republican - out of the White House.

Despite January 6th Trump supporters have proven to be law abiding. So the best hope for preserving the Republic is Democrat excess. Jailing Trump might turn the electorate against them to the point that they can't cheat their way to victory in 2024.; 12/29/23, 9:14 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: As long as I can finally witness SOMEBODY finding himself I'll be happy.; 12/29/23, 9:16 AM
narciso said...: Theres a reason i call it the basilisk

Now that dominion is finally going on trial three years later; 12/29/23, 9:18 AM
Michael K said...: It will be interesting to see how far they will really go. The public is seeing this in real time.; 12/29/23, 9:21 AM
Wince said...: A Daily Beast headline I didn't click on: "Why Trump May Find Himself in Jail Sooner Than He Thinks."

Notice the passive voice...

"Trump will find himself..." rather than "thrown in jail by his politcal enemies for his speech during a presidential race he's currently winning."; 12/29/23, 9:21 AM
Breezy said...: That is for sure a clickbait headline, so resisting it praiseworthy. It can also be categorized as “wishful thinking”.; 12/29/23, 9:31 AM
Rich said...: YW wrote: “His opponents in both parties want him in jail very, very much, so it would not surprise me if they create some pretext to jail him in the next few months.”

None of the men barred from office under the 14th Amendment were ever charged with, much less convicted of insurrection. Jefferson Davis was never convicted of a crime. He was barred from running for office. Being barred from office is not a criminal punishment. It does not require a criminal conviction. That's been the precedent for more than 150 yrs. A Constitutional amendment has a very high threshold to pass. The 14th Amendment met that threshold and was passed. Our democracy operates under the rule of law. It would be undemocratic to ignore the US Constitution just because it technically does bar Trump from holding office. Trump is not above the constitution.; 12/29/23, 9:50 AM
Joe Bar said...: "Sooner or later,
Love is gonna get ya.
Sooner or later,
Girl, ya got to give in."; 12/29/23, 10:05 AM
Scott Patton said...: "Sooner than he thinks" is putting forth an assumption of what Trump thinks, while also attempting to persuade readers to "think past the sale".; 12/29/23, 10:08 AM
stlcdr said...: The ability to put your political opponents in jail.; 12/29/23, 10:11 AM
rehajm said...: If you let them jail him it incentivizes more jailing of innocents where you’re an innocent…; 12/29/23, 10:11 AM
ga6 said...: Disney "wishing will make it so"; 12/29/23, 10:35 AM
n.n said...: Goofing, ogling, gawking with a hope and dream over the rainbow. Beastly.; 12/29/23, 10:40 AM
robother said...: Regardless of jail, the prime directive of the Democrats now is denying Trump the election. Biden has stated that he considers Trump to have engaged in insurrection, "no question." If SCOTUS disagrees, could Biden channel Jackson and say "now let them enforce it?" He could order the DOJ to refuse to enforce the SCOTUS decree, and declare that every County clerk should refuse to print ballots with Trump's name and refuse to count any ballots with his name on it.

Even if the courts were to require Trump to be on the ballot, the Democrat clerks could simply refuse to count any Trump votes. As we saw in the aftermath of 2020, there is no imaginable remedy for that; the magnitude of the challenge would be Bush V. Gore times 25, and with uncooperative clerk offices: courts would simply refuse to get involved in the Presidential electoral process, citing standing, political question, etc.; 12/29/23, 10:44 AM
Tank said...: Never mind putting him in jail, I am amazed that he is still alive, given that so many people have been convinced that he is worse than Hitler and that anything and everything must be done to keep him from being president again.; 12/29/23, 10:48 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Rich elides the obvious point that Jefferson Davis and everyone barred from office actually and admittedly did engage in insurrection and there was no question that the war between the States was one. There is no evidence of an actual insurrection on J6 and no evidence civil or criminal has ever been asserted to support the claim that it was an insurrection. Nobody took up arms. Nobody attempted to expel legislators and assume control of the government. The overwhelming evidence on video is 99% tourist-style strolling and picture-taking in contrast with the 1% violent confrontations that have been revealed to mostly been driven by undercover Feds and FBI “informants” and the highly reactionary DC/Capitol Police who gassed peaceful protestors to provoke violence.; 12/29/23, 11:00 AM
Joe Smith said...: Does 'sooner than never' fall on the 12th?; 12/29/23, 11:04 AM
loudogblog said...: Rich said...

"None of the men barred from office under the 14th Amendment were ever charged with, much less convicted of insurrection."

Are you seriously saying you believe that is the way that our government should run? Punishment without a trial and conviction?; 12/29/23, 11:20 AM
Dixcus said...: They only need Trump in jail for a day or two. Just long enough for the cameras to malfunction and the two black guards to fall asleep on the job.

Then voila ... Epstein.; 12/29/23, 11:20 AM
tcrosse said...: Trump-hate is the glue that holds the Democrat coalition together. Remove him from the scene and it will fall apart.; 12/29/23, 11:29 AM
Rabel said...: "I did not know that!"

You still don't. Seriously, not literally, girlfriend.; 12/29/23, 11:33 AM
Rich said...: @Mike (MJB Wolf): So, what do you think should happen when a candidate violates a tenet of the Constitution that specifically calls out ineligibility? Look the other way because holding him responsible might make his followers unhappy? That’s an environment in which someone like Trump thrives in, but it’s not great for democracy.

I urge you to read the text of the 14th Amendment, Section 3. It does not impose criminal penalties. It nowhere refers to a specific criminal statute. Nor is it limited to ‘insurrection.’ Section 3 disqualifies those public officers who swore to uphold the Constitution and subsequently engaged in rebellion or insurrection against the Constitution, or ‘[gave] aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.’

I defy anyone to demonstrate that Trump did not ‘give aid or comfort to enemies of the Constitution.’ We all watched him do that, day after day, week after week, goading public officials and far-right extremists known for acts of violence and terrorism, culminating in a violent assault on the Capitol and concerted efforts to prevent the peaceful transfer of power the Constitution exists to protect.

Even if Trump had ‘won’ the election — as he still insists, contrary to all evidence and over 60 court decisions — he was not entitled to obtain ‘victory’ through extralegal means.

Al Gore had every reason to believe he did, in fact, win the presidency. He won the popular vote, and a recount of the vote in Florida seemed likely to show he won the Electoral College tally. But when the Supreme Court declared a winner, he walked away. He followed the law and the Constitution.

Trump, on the other hand, defied the law and the Constitution, plain and simple. He violated his oath to uphold the Constitution, in plain view of the American public.; 12/29/23, 11:49 AM
Ampersand said...: Since Biden's bizarre Red MAGA speech, the message of his administration has been reminiscent of Henry II's message about Archbishop Becket: " Will nobody rid me of this turbulent priest?"

History doesn't repeat. It rhymes.; 12/29/23, 11:56 AM
JAORE said...: I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Apparently large swaths of the left do not.

Ditto: Freedom of speech

Or: Protecting 8 year olds from pornography/grooming.

Or: Voter integrity.

My younger classically liberal self would never believe today's left.; 12/29/23, 12:00 PM
tim in vermont said...: Kamala Harris is self evidently guilty of encouraging an insurrection for soliciting bail money for people who set fire to public buildings. The case that Kamala encouraged rioters simply relies on the straightforward interpretation of her words, and not triple bank shot mind reading and studiously keeping relevant evidence, such as Trump authorizing 20K National Guard to protect the Capitol, which Pelosi and the Capitol police turned down, from reaching the jury’s ears.

Any effective defense must be blocked, same as Schiff did in the impeachment.; 12/29/23, 12:17 PM
JAORE said...: The [jail cell] walls are closing in!

Hey, my brother has thought this 7 or 8 times already.; 12/29/23, 12:22 PM
Night Owl said...: If the powers that be can get away with these banana republic lawfare tactics against a former president, then they can and will do it to anyone of us. What's even more disturbing is that many of these illegal tactics, such as the illegal spying and phony dossier, took place while Trump was in office.

If leftists think they're safe with the State having this much power because it's "their side" engaging in the lawfare, they're kidding themselves. No one, left or right, will ever be allowed to express uncensored disagreement with the State without risking the entire legal system coming down on them.

Never again will constitutionally protected protesting be allowed. They're still using our tax dollars to hunt down anyone who was in DC on January 6th, and calling it an insurrection when no one, except the police, was armed, and we all saw the videos of the cops leading people around the building.

This is why ordinary working people are seething in anger. They're aware that while they were distracted, raising families and working to pay their taxes, that the fascists have already taken control.; 12/29/23, 12:26 PM
Howard said...: Democrat premature ejaculation; 12/29/23, 12:32 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Whatever, Rich. Yeesh!; 12/29/23, 1:04 PM
Sheridan said...: Howard, I think you meant to say "Democrat premature EJECTION".; 12/29/23, 1:41 PM
mongo said...: Mike Sylwester said, “ His popularity will rise even higher.”

Obi-Wan Kenobi told Darth Vader, “If you strike me down I shall become even more powerful than you can imagine.” He did, too.; 12/29/23, 1:44 PM
Hassayamper said...: Joe Biden has been giving aid and comfort to the enemies of America and its Constitution since the first day he set foot in Washington, most recently by throwing open our borders to invasion by millions of military-aged men. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I now support stripping Democrats of their right to vote for anyone they choose, or to vote at all. Enemies of the Constitution, every single one.; 12/29/23, 1:54 PM
robother said...: A Bernie Bro shows up at a DC baseball field where Republican Congress members are with a rifle shooting them. Sounds a lot more like insurrection than an unarmed protest. Republican election officials should've removed Bernie from the 2020 ballot, no need for a trial, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is self-executing.

Since Biden took office 5-8 million illegals have streamed across the border along with tons of fentanyl and other lethal drugs. 110000 Americans a year have died from overdoses, sure sounds like an insurrection to me as well as aid and comfort to our enemies. By Rich's reasoning, every Republican election official can and should remove Biden and Harris (his Border Czar as well as VP) from the ballot, no judicial proceeding necessary at all. Self-executing.

Hillary Clinton refused to send forces to rescue an embassy under fire. Sounds like aid and comfort to our enemies to me. Again, simply remove her from the 2016 ballot. No judicial process needed, the 14th Amendment is self-executing. We can do this all day Rich.; 12/29/23, 2:12 PM
vermonter said...: Do any of the other Repubicans, DeSantis, Haley, etc, etc, etc, Christie, think that if Trump were “eliminated” from the race, that they wouldn’t get the the same treatment. Dream on.; 12/29/23, 2:23 PM
vermonter said...: Do any of the other Repubicans, DeSantis, Haley, etc, etc, etc, Christie, think that if Trump were “eliminated” from the race, that they wouldn’t get the the same treatment. Dream on.; 12/29/23, 2:23 PM
MountainMan said...: Section 3 reads as follows:

"Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

A close reading of this can be interpreted that this section does not apply to POTUS or the VP. It does reference "any office, civil or military, under the United States...having previously taken an oath...as an officer of the United States..."

I believe there is a SCOTUS decision that an "officer of the United States" is a position that is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate, I.e., cabinet officers, ambassadors, military officers, district attorneys, judges, agency heads. Odd this amendment mentions the Electors but not the POTUS and VP positions themselves.

As for lawsuits: there have not been 60 rulings against 2020 election claims. Last I checked there had bee 92 cases filed. 62 were dismissed without trial due to lack of standing or technical issues. Of the 30 cases that have actually gone to trial, Trump supporters have won 23.; 12/29/23, 7:30 PM