December 12, 2023
“President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine hit a brick wall of resistance from Senate Republicans on Tuesday as he made an urgent plea….”
“[S]everal Republicans emerged from a meeting with him unmoved. They reiterated their stance that they would not agree to any new aid for Ukraine unless President Biden and Democrats bowed to their demands to clamp down on migration at the southern border of the United States…. Republican resistance to helping Ukraine has steadily grown on Capitol Hill, and the star power Mr. Zelensky once enjoyed there has faded considerably…. This time, Mr. Zelensky made no public statement at all at the Capitol, bypassing reporters who had gathered expecting to hear from him. Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio, one of the most vocal critics in the Senate of Ukraine aid, called Mr. Zelensky’s trip to Congress ‘grotesque.’ ‘He’s coming to the United States of America, lecturing us, and demanding more American taxpayer dollars,’ Mr. Vance said on Fox News on Monday night…..”
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129 comments:
The Slavic Sping in the Obama/Biden/Clinton's World War Spring series with CAIR and "benefits".
Is this entry linked in any way to the title line of the previous post?
If not, opportunity awaits. I don't envy Zelensky. Just do something about the border - if it takes Ukraine, then that's what it will take. The Senate's majority party will display their priorities to him.
Zelensky should consider spending more time haranguing Democrats to compromise...
You know, Ukraine made several decisions in the past, like forging a black book to help Mueller "get Trump" and allying with Democrats who created an entire false narrative replete with forgeries to suggest Trump was a Russian agent and traitor.
Then they could have helped Trump by providing REAL EVIDENCE against Biden family, but chose to not to do so and instead help cover up corruption.
Someone is giving them very bad advice.
Go bother the EU. Get money from them. Leave us alone.
"What’s going on here is that the West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path, and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked.” - John Mearsheimer, 2015
For getting it right, he has been constantly attacked by the regime, and even its sock puppets and/or rubes on this site. He has been attacked for rightly pointing out that the US wanted this war, and seduced Ukraine into fighting it, and then provoked Russia into starting it by taking advantage of the red line of every Russian leader, including Gorbachev, that Ukraine must not join NATO, to trigger it. BTW, NATO has attacked multiple countries that never. attacked it. It has fought in a lot of wars, but never a defensive one based on its charter.
When the neocons see a rival create a red line, they get a little boner knowing that they can use it to start a war whenever they think that the time is right, by simply crossing it, and then blame the other side. Biden crosse dit in November of 2021 by sending Ukraine a letter promising them membership in NATO, the war built from that moment.
There is a funny meme showing a graph that shows that trust in government declines rapidly in proportion to knowledge of history. Well, this is how wars are started. A good place to start would be the book on the lead up to WWI called The Guns of August.
Republicans shouldn't even be promising Ukraine aid for border security.
Don't fund Ukraine.
Secure the border.
There is no need to tie these two together...
Finally ! The Biden Crime Family will be cut off from one source of corruption.
The Democrats have learned they can slow-roll the Republicans on spending bills if they wait them out.
One day the Dems are going to be wrong.
And both parties are going to be surprised.
What this shows is that Biden is not "neglecting" the border, an open border is such a high-priority to him that he is willing to sell out a country which has sent hundreds of thousands, at a minimum, to their deaths, and if you include the maimed, likely well over a million, fighting a war based on Joe Biden's worthless promises. This is not to say I think that we should send them the money, for from it, this is Joe Biden's war, not America's. He just doesn't consider it as important as the 9,000 New Democrats that crossed the border yesterday, and were given a right to housing, medical care, and a job, as "asylum seekers" before being sent on their way. How many of them do we really think will be denied asylum by these Democrat appointed immigration judges?
Tell Zelensky to go home. Nobody is fooled by his army green propaganda attire.
Make a peace deal. He made the wrong decision following the advice of Boris Johnson, Joe Biden, and NATO in early 2022 to pass on peace, and fight Russia. Now he has to negotiate at a loss. Russia will get the eastern regions of Ukraine and hold the Black Sea Ports.
There are a lot of Americans and American communities that could use $60 Billion. Border Security is a great place to start.
Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Anymore.
Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States doesn’t have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can’t say that we’ve made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Biden won’t be the first President to lose two wars in a single term...
How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?
*though it looks like I plagiarized, Harvard has told me it's A-Okay nowadays...
No more money to corrupt Ukraine.
Fortunately for Zelensky, he has the Biden tapes and will threaten to reveal them.
"Be patient. Nobody knows what (Zelensky) knows."
And, concessions re the border will be made, then ignored.
I responded to one of my sons with the following which I don't think I can improve on:
"I understand your point of view and in some ways agree. However Mitch and all those supporting Ukraine don’t seem to consider - and certainly haven’t explained to us - what will happen when the Russians overrun Ukraine next spring. If the answer to that question is “we won’t allow it” then my Viet Nam analogy is appropriate. The only way we will stop Russia annexing Ukraine then is by deploying our own ( and Nato) forces. Ukraine is going to run out of fighters well before Russia - can you say Alamo?
If you carefully read the WSJ article { of 12/11} on European preparedness you will most likely come to the conclusion that with the exception of the Poles and Hungarians not many European countries are going to be much help. Frankly, after the disaster in Afghanistan I am not too encouraged about the capabilities of our own armed forces - particularly the leadership. I will also bet a buck that should Russia look like they are going to overrun Ukraine our political leadership - in either party - will not be willing to deploy the troops to stop them. (In that case I think they will be correct, because regardless of our emotional involvement,Ukraine is neither an ally nor critical to the structure and mission of NATO). Sure it’s fun to sit on the sidelines and watch the Ukrainians poke Putin in the eye. The failure of Ukraine to make any real advances this summer should be a hint of what the future holds. For Putin and Russia this is a battle they can not afford to lose. We can walk away without much changing in Europe- other than confirming: 1. we don’t have the balls to confront Putin; and 2. that Nato is a hollow shell. It’s always easy to make manly bets, especially when somebody else is paying the price. The concern is when the opposition actually wants to see your cards.
If Mitch and all the other supporters of Ukraine were serious they would be making military expenditures - troops, equipment, ammo, logistics needed to bring our forces up to battle readiness. That’s how you get "peace in our time”. Not by blowing the budget up with social spending and making brave manly statements. The Putins of the world respond to strength not bullshit"
Is Biden too stupid to accept the gift the Republicans are handing him? I bet yes.
Video on X of Zelensky meeting with US Defense Contractor CEO. Shaking hands. Kissing ass.
I'm sure the US defense contractors want to see the $60 billion approved too.
Zelensky should make a deal now to keep as much land as he can.
In a year or two, Russia will take it all.
No American president can survive sending American troops into Ukraine to fight Russians.
At least he'll get to keep his billions of dollars in graft.
Not a bad deal. He can use it to upgrade his idiotic 'Fidel' wardrobe...
"A brick wall of resistance from Senate Republicans" is problematic for me.
I expect that standalone Ukraine funding would pass easily in the Seante, but for a filibuster.
Romney wants Ukraine funding. McConnell wants Ukraine fudning, and I expect that McConnell would easily carry senior Conference leadership with him. (Thune, Barasso, Ernst, Capito, Daines.) And I can't even count all the others. Collins; Murkowski; Cassidy?
It's just the morality of holding up Ukraine funding to get border security compromises. Politics.
"Be patient. Nobody knows what (Zelensky) knows."
Ha!
The reason why Z came to DC was to personally deliver a sack of high-grade diamonds to Joe as part of his continuing bribery scheme.
Someone should ask the question.
If a good college QB is worth $1-2m per year, Joe should get at least $500m from Ukraine. The Dodgers just signed a guy for $700m.
This time, Mr. Zelensky made no public statement at all at the Capitol, bypassing reporters who had gathered expecting to hear from him.
Zelensky didn't step out in DC?
He’s coming to the United States of America, lecturing us, and demanding more American taxpayer dollars
Hillary Clinton did that at Columbia.
Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, the choice is straightforward: finance Ukraine. The immediate cost is significant, but inaction could lead to irreparable damage, leaving us with nothing to preserve. Russia and China's objective to erode our societies and economies is evident, as declared by their governments. Investing in Ukraine is vital, serving both as a decisive statement and a strategy to counteract the expanding military might of Russia and China.
In fact the costs are not much in comparison to the over 20 trillion US GDP, or even 1.5 trillion defense budget. Not to mention what it would cost to deal with the consequences of Russia's expansionism.
I've never understood why the U.S. got involved in Ukraine in the first place, other than to hide the corruption of the Biden Crime Family. Ukraine literally has no geostrategic importance to the United States, yet we've spend billions in funds and weapons without any sort of oversight, and without any notion of what an endgame goal should be, other than complete and utter victory (which ain't gonna happen).
Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and now there are reports weapons and ammo we've supplied are finding their way to the bad guys in the Middle East. And for those neocons and others parroting the line that supporting Ukraine is necessary to stop the Russkies from gobbling up all of Easter Europe, including NATO Eastern Europe, my answer is the 60s want their domino theory back.
We need to completely stop funding these nonstrategic proxy wars whose only raison d'etre is to keep flush our defense industry and the political graft that goes with it (I'm looking at you, Cocaine Mitch). We have bigger fish to fry: our southern border, where I live, is being overrun by unvetted illegal aliens (fuck that "migrants" tag). This tsunami is creating a national security crisis as well as forever changing the character and nature of our republic. As far as I know, the only candidate with any balls about doing something about it is former President Trump. I'm not generally a one-issue voter, but I'll crawl over broken glass if I need to in order to cast my vote for him in 2024.
So Biden prefers the border over Ukraine. Got it b
Israel has the bomb. It is not in a war for survival. Ukraine gave up the bomb. It is in a war for survival and we should help it survive.
A Ukrasovo would surely settle the civil war and terrorist progress of Kiev and central powers.
Rumor has it that Zelensky is considering raising draft age to forty.
No mention of drafting women, for equality.
They made up the whole Russiagate lie to push this war. Putin beat Hilary! Waaah!!!
To what end.
A foreign president coming to our soil to demand and convince our congress to fund his war indicates we are, de facto, at war.
Why isn't congress declaring war against Russia?
Oh, right.
Ukraine gave up their nukes on the word of the US. Saps.
It's nice to see the Republican Senate is helping Putin hold out for another year before Trump takes over and gives him the keys to Ukraine at the doorstep of Western Europe.
From the Bulwark, Jonathan V. Last (formerly Weekly Standard, Wall Street Journal, etc.) suggesting that Biden should just give Republicans almost everything they want on border security and get the Ukraine funding underway.
Biden Should Cave on Immigration: Holding Ukraine aid hostage for immigration reform is a strategic mistake by Republicans. Biden should exploit it by giving them what they want.
(Paywall warning; do yourself a favor and sign up for Bulwark access if you haven't yet.)
I agree with JVL; give them what they want because defending Ukraine is the right thing to do and a winning move on so many other levels.
They want the money for Ukraine?
Then give them what they want on the border! It's not hard!
They get what they want, you get what you want. This whole try to browbeat and play chicken with the other side to try to make them knuckle under so they get nothing and you get everything, on EVERY god damn issue, is a big reason why politics is so ****** up in this country.
Howard: "It's nice to see the Republican Senate is helping Putin hold out for another year before Trump takes over and gives him the keys to Ukraine at the doorstep of Western Europe."
2014 (obama/biden admin)- Putin seizes Crimea
2017 thru 2020 (Trump admin) - Putin doesnt do a thing
2022 (FJB/Kamala admin) - Putin invades ukraine
I think my favorite child-like Howard lie with regard to Russia/Ukraine was Howards claim that Trump, waaaaay back in 2014 gave the green light to Putin to seize Crimea!
Truly a classic which will live forever.
We gave Putin the keys to Ukraine when we killed the deal that he had made with Zelensky that would have kept Ukraine intact.
Hey Howard, did you know Ukraine is still accepting foreign volunteers of all ages!
Please keep us updated on your upcoming combat tour there. It should make for scintillating reading!
Biden would rather give Putin the keys to Europe than to shut down the influx of "asylum seekers" at the southern border.
"“Fentanyl is the leading cause of death for Americans age 18-49 in this country…because it’s allowed over the border” - Speaker Johnson
Yet Biden preferred to give Putin a victory than to try to put a stop to it.
Great! It's about time the Stupid party showed a little backbone! Ukraine is a suckers bet and a money washing scam.
I favor continued aid to Ukraine because it is good for the US. Why is that? The other day I was chatting with a neighbor whose career had taken him to lots of places around the world, and he mentioned visiting Fulda, Germany. Remember the Fulda Gap? That was the weak spot in the NATO defense against a Soviet attack. The war planners feared there was a good chance that NATO forces couldn't hold the Gap, and if the Soviets got through, Western Europe would be open to their forces. The German businessman my friend was chatting with showed him the pistol he kept in his desk drawer as the "last defense of the Fulda Gap".
What Ukraine has showed is that Russia is not the fearsome military juggernaut that the Soviet Union was feared to be. Ukraine, a third-rate (at best) military power, but with modern weapons provided by NATO countries, has fought the Russians to (at least) a draw.
Of course Ukraine relies on military and financial support from the US and NATO, so if we pull the plug on that aid, Russia will likely succeed in defeating Ukraine and imposing its terms on that (heretofore) free country. And this will reconfirm the Russian opinion that "The West" lacks the starch in the end to stand up against "The East". If that is what the Republicans want, they are not the Republicans I've supported since 1964.
Yes, the Republicans should insist that the President do his legal duty to close the f*cking southern US border, round up the illegals who've gotten through and ship them back where they came from. But don't surrender to the Russians in Europe.
So, let's see, we're supposed to resist the invasion of Ukraine more vigorously than the invasion of the US of A itself?
Get this grifter outta here.
Actually THESE grifters, Biden and Zelensky.
A couple of posts above mention that Ukraine gave up their nukes.
True.
What if they still had them?
Would they be using them now?
Under what circumstances would they use them? If they were getting overrun by the Russians? If they nuke anywhere in Russia, Kiev and every other major population center would be glowing from Russian nuclear retaliation within a day.
Ukraine survived living under Russian rule for decades. Unpleasant, but once Stalin died, survivable.
They were foolish to give up their nukes, foolish to trust any other nation with their security, but if they had them now, so what?
Every data point in this ugly story is consistent with Zelensky having Biden by the short hairs and is blackmailing him with the threat of revealing the extent of the Bidens' corruption.
The R's seem to know this and may be successful in getting some border control.
What a way to run a government.
Dave Begley said...
Go bother the EU. Get money from them. Leave us alone.
Let me get this straight. Dave, you're a well-known Republican player in Nebraska. You're a sort of serious Republican. You've supported Trump, but because you're serious, and a lawyer, you would like to see the GOP nominate a DeSantis, or a Ramaswamy, or a Haley. The Trumpier (without all of Trump's personal baggage) the better. But you're okay with Trump in the end.
And the Trump/Fox/Tucker/Hannity/Gutfeld mantra is, "Ukraine fucked with Trump. Russia is okay; they're better than Ukraine. We hate those damned flag avatars. Fuck Ukraine."
And part of that political gamesmanship and opportunism is to support Israel. Because, who's on the other side of Israel? College radicals and Rashida Tlaib. Let's support Israel.
So now let's review. Why support Israel? It's a western ally, in a very troubled and troublesome part of the world. Israel was attacked, brutally, by a terroristic force. Israel doesn't need American troops; it needs American advanced weaponry, the production of which helps the U.S. economy. So it's an easy call. Help Israel.
Now do Ukraine. A western ally, in a troubled region. Attacked brutally, by Russian forces who practiced mass rape and kidnapping. Russians who fired rockets on civilian urban neighborhoods. Invading Ukraine; posing an existential threat to Ukrainian national existence. Tonight, on Russian state televsion, they are talking about Ukrainian genocide on Russian state tv. And all Ukraine needs, or is asking for, is U.S. military aid.
Lastly; to your point about asking the EU. That's another plus here. NATO is getting stronger, with Ukraine. NATO countries are indeed stepping up, and the numbers and the commitments show it. Of course, the U.S. has some of the really good stuff. The stuff that can defeat Russia once and for all.
Of course, Russian state tv is right now extolling the GOP in the United States. They are rooting for the GOP to hold support for Ukraine, and they are openly rooting for Trump to retake the White House. This is all so laughably embarassing and damninf for the current GOP.
But there it is, Dave. It's your party now.
It will be an interesting election year. Will abortion limits imposed at the state level drive more, or fewer, votes than unchecked illegal immigration?
how many billions have we (US tax payers) given Ukraine already?
Where is Europe?
Rumor has it that Zelensky is considering raising draft age to forty.
No mention of drafting women, for equality.
Give Kiev credit for ecognizing the obvious and not repeating the mistake of proactively placing women in harm's way.
What Tim said 4:58
Remember Last year? when Zelensky and other Ukrainian Nazi's would receive Standing Ovations?
WOW how the world has changed!
Just Last year, the world was praising people practicing Jewish genocide!
This year, the world is praising people practicing Jewish genocide!
LLR-democratical and Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasist Chuck: "I agree with JVL; give them what they want because defending Ukraine is the right thing to do and a winning move on so many other levels."
LOL
"a winning move on so many other levels"
Too funny from another Faux Althouse Blog Clausewitz!
‘grotesque.’
In light of the fact that Zelinski's bureaucrats and upper crust insiders have taken our US tax dollars and spent it on themselves. Buying up expensive European real estate, etc...
MUCH LIKE HUNTER. It's all a war machine game. For those of you who whine about Putin - Biden is Poots poodle.
We can walk away without much changing in Europe- other than confirming: 1. we don’t have the balls to confront Putin; and 2. that Nato is a hollow shell
Way Back Last year i asked:
If this war is SO IMPORTANT.. What happens when the US loses, like we ALWAYS DO?
When WAS the last war we won?
When WAS the last war we won WITHOUT Russian support?
What EVER happened to all those folk here, that were SO SURE the Ukrainians were going to be deep in russia?
I guess it turns OUT, that a LOT of Ukrainians ARE deep in russia.. in POW camps
Dr Weevil? Anything to add?
I keep waiting for Howard, Chuck, and Rich to announce they have enlisted in the Ukrainian army.
The headline should be "Zelensky caught in the middle of domestic politics". For the beginners in the Althouse commentariat, take every public statement by a politician with a heaping load of salt.
The Republicans are connecting all sorts of issues that the Democrats would like to keep separate. The Republicans have to show something of substance on the border issue, and are using Israel, Ukraine, Hunter et al to get it. If the VP had any substance or depth, she would lead the political counterattack and let Biden try to float above the fray.
But, given the GOP's skill at stepping on their own dicks, it's hard to say how things will turn out.
I do not know what the hell is wrong with so many alleged conservatives that they oppose halting Putin's expansionist efforts in the name of the Russian people, and Mother Russia [= 'Vaterland' in Deutsch]. The European conflict of WWII might have been prevented if Britain and France had had the stones to stop the German military occupation of the Rhineland in 1935.
The US and NATO have done admirably well in stopping Russian expansion into Ukraine, apart from Crimea, Donbas, and Donyets, which have long been majority-Russian population. And not only has it been done with no NATO KIAs, but it has also devastated both the Russian military and the world's perception thereof. The billions have been well spent.
This all reminds me far too much of how Democrats in early 1975 quite intentionally threw away America's modest negotiated victory in Vietnam -- a free South Vietnam had been preserved, with torrents of their own blood -- by cutting off all funding for the ammo they needed to preserve their freedom.
LBJ was undone by DEMOCRATS, not Republicans. It's happening yet again.
"The problem for Democrats was that they could not course correct. Once HILLARY! is the one, she is the one. When Obama is God, there is no other.
This lead to the then quantum entanglement of McGovern/Mondale/Clinton/Gore/HILLARY!/Beiden where all must be electable but all are broken in some way, and all at the same time.
After the second Trump administration there was still no course correction in the Democrat Party. This allowed the GOOGLES to control nationally, while being powerless on a local or commodity basis."
The Galactic Encyclopedia.
"It's just the morality of holding up Ukraine funding to get border security compromises. Politics."
Consider, if you will, the morality of allowing the border of this country to be overrun. Why isn't defense of our border priority one, Mr. Lifelong Republican? Why do the Republicans even have to play this game?
Defend the border. Of OUR COUNTRY. First. Then we talk. Not politics.
A couple of things here. I know a Ukrainian immigrant, born and raised there for decades, pretty well these last years. Their summary? Ukraine is Russian, has been for centuries. Ukraine is not to be trusted as they are corrupt to the bone.
We're in debt to the tune of 100k per person, over 2ook+ per taxpayer. We're broke as a nation.
We have seen NO accounting for the $$$ spent so far. Remember Barry's stimulus program? Joe promised us that he was the "new sheriff", and would "account for every penny". We never saw Jack Shit! How about our strategic oil reserve level? SHHH!
"Ukraine Aid" is supporting the ENTIRE country. Every branch/person on our dime.
The E.U is sitting back and laughing at the stupid spendthrift yanks.
Meanwhile this administration is ignoring OUR veteran's needs.
Putin is the left's blackmail card.
Zelensky closed churches, imprisoned priests and banned opposition parties. Remind why he’s any better than Putin. Also, what does the US have to gain by supporting him? Let Europe defend its Eastern flank. Not our fight.
'Israel has the bomb. It is not in a war for survival. Ukraine gave up the bomb. It is in a war for survival and we should help it survive.'
They trusted Bill Clinton.
They chose unwisely.
It's not a 'war for survival,' they'll just have a new boss...
American first.
49 PM
Blogger Joe Smith said...
Republicans shouldn't even be promising Ukraine aid for border security.
Don't fund Ukraine.
Secure the border.
There is no need to tie these two together...
Like it or not that’s how Democratic with a small “d” politics are done. If you want something you need to be willing to give up something in return. It’s a shitty system but it works when the stakes get high enough. I can’t imagine them being any higher.
Cause and effect
Trump says that Russia will never go into Ukraine.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/index.html
Protecting our borders could be a deal breaker.
Now tell me how much Joe and his voters love America/democracy.
Once again Trump has been proven right. NATO needs to beef up its defense spending. Time to stop relying on their sugar daddy, the USA. If it's not important enough to them why should we be the ones ponying up?
And for Christ's sake Rich. That is the most boneheaded argument I've ever heard. 5% (or more) of the defense budget is chump change? Take some math classes or something. And China couldn't be happier, watching us draining our military and financial resources in Ukraine. It couldn't be going better for them even if they'd drawn up the chain of events themselves. I'd say they are getting a good return on their 10% to the big guy.
Rich says just fund it. Well no. This entire fiasco is because of nato excursion and our aggressive posturing. This is NATO ( ergo the United States fault), ergo just more blood on our hands for elite power bases. We have no need of Ukraine and Ukraine has no need to be in NATO.
They reiterated their stance that they would not agree to any new aid for Ukraine. Strike the remainder.
btw- If Biden caves on border funding - that will be a crock.
Last time the lying liars who lie left-o-crats spent our US tax dollars are more asylum processors.
Git 'er done:
U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 casualties.
"WASHINGTON, Dec 12 (Reuters) - A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.
"The report also assessed that Moscow's losses in personnel and armored vehicles to Ukraine's military have set back Russia’s military modernization by 18 years, the source said..."
Ukraine gave up their nukes on the word of the US. Saps.
If it isn't the Democrats screwing countries over, it is the Republicans. The British were much better at this sort of thing.
The "deal that [Putin] had made with Zelensky that would have kept Ukraine intact" would have done nothing of the sort. Putin has violated every such deal he has ever made. Only a moron would sign a deal with him now, and whatever his faults Zelenskyy is not a moron. The only war Russia is winning is the propaganda war, and a lot of you here have shown that you will believe anything.
For instance, Ukraine is not the most corrupt country in Europe: Russia is, by a considerable margin, or Azerbaijan if you consider it part of Europe. The only evidence that Ukraine has been selling weapons in the Middle East is that Iran says so, and they're lying to help their Russian allies.
The US is in fact obligated to arm Ukraine by the terms of the Budapest Memorandum, signed by Bill Clinton. They not only gave up their nukes, they gave up their heavy bombers. They had 44 huge Tu-22 bombers that they destroyed by chopping their tails off. Russia kept their Tu-22s and use them every night to bomb civilian neighborhoods and utilities. We agreed to guarantee their 1991 borders in return for their disarmament, and need to do so.
The fact is that the war will not end until Russia is defeated. Russian TV (translated by @JuliaDavisNews on Twitter) tells us every night what their war aims are: to utterly destroy Ukraine as a nation and as a culture. (Did you know they're destroying all Ukrainian-language books in the occupied territories?) They will not make peace - or even pretend to make peace - in return for Crimea and the Donbass. They want Kharkiv and Odesa and the entire seacoast of Ukraine. They also openly say that they want to restore the entire Soviet Union, in fact they want all of Imperial Russia back. They specifically name not just the Baltics, the rest of Georgia, and the rest. They want Poland, and Finland, and Alaska. Russia will not stop invading countries until it is defeated. And it can easily be defeated by the Ukrainians if the US will only provide the weapons already promised, and already paid for. They're lying around in warehouses, and the cost of shipping them to Ukraine is less than the cost of recycling the materials. Why doesn't Biden send them? We have 1200 past-their-sell-by-date ATACMS, and have provided 20. Pathetic. We have hundreds of unused F-16s and M-1 tanks, and have provided a few (31?) of the latter, with a few F-16s to come next year. The Ukrainian army loves the Bradley fighting vehicle, which is not only good for killing Russians, but very survivable: when a Bradley is damaged or even destroyed, the crew generally survives, which is not true of Russian equipment. We have hundreds of surplus Bradleys. Why aren't they being sent? Apparently someone in the administration wants Ukraine to lose.
Lone justice - If Trump were still prez - there would be no war.
"Putin has violated every such deal he has ever made."
Every accusation by a Ukrainian is a confession. Well, you have your war, how is it going? It wasn't Putin who tore up the treaty with the USSR that created Ukraine in the first place, all except the parts about the borders, and it wasn't Putin who completely ignored Minsk II, which Ukraine signed, but all of the Western leaders have now conceded was just a trick to prepare for war, but it's important to the Ukrainians that we think that it was Putin going back on his word.
Ukraine annexed the Republic of Crimea in 1995 against its will, and after Crimea had voted to be an independent state. So it sounds to me like Ukraine is a big believer in the law of the jungle.
But not to worry, 90% of Putin's army has been destroyed, so any fear of Putin overrunning Europe seems a little misplaced... no?
I agree that Biden is right now trying to come up with some border funding deal that he can quickly neuter, and use the money to build larger welcome centers and more gates at the border.
Trump says that Russia will never go into Ukraine.
I get so sick and tired of this shit from people like you.
Did Russia invade during Trump's four years? No.
Who is President now?
On whose watch did this happen?
Who basically invited them in while blessing their 'minor incursion.'
It wasn't Trump.
Give it a fucking rest.
our CIA and FBI are useless to take out Putin.
too busy trying to destroy American lives... if they refuse to support crook Joe.
David Frum details the reasoning, or lack thereof, in the GOP's (and he makes it clear that it is the loud, right-wing-media-minority within the GOP) opposition to Ukraine funding:
Why the GOP doesn't really want a deal on Ukraine and the border.
Frum posits four basic themes in why different parts of the GOP in Congress has put the defense of Ukraine in this position.
1. "Playing to the gallery." Frum observes that some House Republicans aren't in government to govern. They are there to score points in the media and strike poses for their base. They are opposed to dealmaking. Dealmaking is just seen as weakness by the base. And that pushes them to stake out positions that they know to be impossible nonstarters.
2. "The politics of domination." Frum provides a quote from Sen. John Cornyn, saying "This is the price that has to be paid to get to the supplemental." Related to Frum's first point, some in the GOP prefer wins over the D's to any deal, no matter how good the deal might be.
3. "Intentional failure." Frum writes, "...Suppose Republicans did extract a big border [security] concession in 2023; suppose they got everything they wanted. Then suppose their policy worked, and the flow of asylum seekers really did taper off dramatically in 2024. Would not the result of that success be only to strengthen Biden's reelection chances and hurt Donald Trump's? Maybe the reason Democrats are having so much difficulty getting to "yes" with Republicans is that many Republicans are committed to "no," regradless of what the offer is."
4. "Animosity toward Ukraine." Again, Frum: "The premise of much of the reporting about the negotiation is that Republicans sincerely care about the [U.S. southern] border and are using Ukraine and Israel as leverage in order to get their way on their higher priority. But for some Republicans, at least, sstopping aid to Ukraine seems a priority in itself. A few actively subscribe to the pro-Putin politics of the far right..."
Frum linked to examples of the latter impulse among some Republicans. To that I add, just watch the Fox News prime time lineup any night of the week, or a Tucker Carlson podcast, or listen to right-wing talkradio.
Or, just read the Althouse blog comments pages. And you'll see that among some extremist TrumpWingers, they are quite happy to see Ukraine lose and Russia win.
Would people please stop repeating falsehoods that have been corrected many times, usually by me? Falsehoods that are easily checked. Just a few examples:
1. Zelenskyy has banned opposition parties! Only the ones (3 in parliament) working for Russian victory. There are still 8 different parties in parliament - a lot more than in our Congress - 3 pro-Zelenskyy, 3 opposition, 2 neutral - plus 24 independents. And Churchill actually locked up the leader of the British Union of Fascists in WW2, without anyone thinking him a dictator. The claims about him closing churches are just as ridiculous. Anyone who calls Zelenskyy a dictator is a liar, or a fool.
2. Europe needs to pay for the war in Ukraine! They are already doing so. As a percentage of GDP, US aid is down in 8th or 10th place, and dropping. UK, Canada, and Germany are providing just as much (proportionately), Poland, Czechia, Netherlands, and the Baltics far more. And most of what they need now would cost us less to send than to keep - see previous comment.
3. He's running out of troops! Is he? It's Russia that's luring in Central Asians for 'construction jobs', then drafting them and sending them to the front, Russia that's hiring actual mercenaries (Nepalis and Cubans), Russia that's taking serial killers out of prison to send them to the front, including two cannibals. Yes, Russia recently sent two equivalents of Jeffrey Daumer to the front. And the non-Ukrainians fighting for Ukraine are not in fact mercenaries: they're paid $500 a month, which means they're not fighting for love of money, but for love of Ukraine or hatred of Russia. (One of the largest units is the Georgian Legion, practicing for when they get a chance to liberate Abkhazia and South Ossetia.)
I could go on, but why bother? I correct 'tim in vermont' and others, and then they just repeat the same claims as if they had never been refuted.
Dr. Weevil said: "The fact is that the war will not end until Russia is defeated."
That, my friend, is mega-delusional thinking. Even Ukraine's commanding general has acknowledged a stalemate has occurred. It's worth noting that Russia has at least 10x the manpower and resources of Ukraine, so that's not a winning strategy for Ukraine. The only way Ukraine defeats Russia is with U.S. nukes, or with U.S. boots on the ground in large numbers. In my humble opinion, that's probably not going to happen.
Without a negotiated settlement, Ukraine (even with all of the funding and weapons it might be able to scrounge from the U.S. and Europe) will merely end up sacrificing nearly all of its military-aged men without ever "defeating" Russia. If you want to learn what that will do to a country, take a look at Britain after WW I; it was no longer "Great", and it never recovered.
Finally, I don't understand how you believe Alaska is in danger of Russian aggression. However, if Russia were so foolhardy to take any such action, my bet is on the US of A protecting its own interests. By the way, I don't know how you've concluded the Bradley is such a wonderful survivable vehicle. Have you ever gone into combat in one? I didn't think so. There's a good reason there are so many surplus Bradleys - the U.S. military got rid of them as soon as they could. So now they're good enough to waste more Ukraine men? Get a grip.
Ukraine never had Nuclear weapons. During Soviet times, Ukrainian SSR was one of the republics of USSR and there were nuclear installations there. It doesn’t mean that Ukrainian SSR ‘had’ nuclear weapons. There are US nuclear weapons installations in many US states, but it doesn’t mean that state of Montana (for instance) ‘has’ unclear weapons. Operational controls are secure in Washington DC. Likewise, USSR nuclear weapons were controlled from Moscow. Once Ukraine became independent country, there were Nuclear weapons located on its territory but Ukraine had no operational control over these weapons. It was not able to activate and launch them in any way.
If some US state like Montana declares independence, will it become a Nuclear power? Of course not. All these Nuclear weapons on its territory will be absolutely useless.
Now if they'd just do this to Israel,...
"I correct 'tim in vermont' and others, and then they just repeat the same claims as if they had never been refuted."
repeating the lies spread by the Ukrainian and American media is not a refutation. You told me that Zelensky was not corrupt, for example, but a simple review of an article in the western press on the Pandora Papers shows that he had his snout in the trough.
You say that Kiev is not full of neonazis, but any search of the Western press prior to the invasion will find dozens of stories about Kiev's nazi problem. They just all stopped being written when the order went out.
You claim that Putin could not be trusted on the peace agreement that Ukraine actually initialed, but Putin allowed for Western guarantees, to address that mistrust, but the West said "No! Fight!" and so that's where we are now. This is all well documented in the press and admitted to by Ukrainian insiders.
In fact the "revolution of dignity" was a US backed coup. The neonazi Right Sector massacred dozens of the demonstrators by sniper and then used the chaos to storm the parliament and overthrow the democratic government, because, I guess, they didn't like their chances in an actual election, and the US still denies this and claims still that the government killed those people, and so recognized immediately the leaders of a violent coup against a democratically elected government. So there is a civil war, a large part of Ukraine refused to go along with the coup, just because the US recognizes one side of a civil war as "legitimate" does not mean that the other side is somehow obligated to accept defeat. The US armed one side in this civil war, and the Russians armed the other. It's still going on. Once Kiev ignored Minsk II, a treaty they signed and which would have left them intact, with Crimea, and chose civil war, they took a great risk, and they have lost.
The US wants to turn the Black Sea into a NATO lake, and the way to do this was to pry Ukraine away from its neutrality and turn it into a NATO army. This is what the war is about, nothing less. Would the US allow China to turn the Gulf of Mexico into a naval stronghold? I don't think so.
Russia would not have gone into Ukraine under Trump, because A, he would not have sent the letter that Biden sent, guaranteeing Ukraine entry into NATO.
B) He would have picked up the phone and worked out a deal to maintain the peace.
Joe Biden wanted the war, its been planned for decades, and his comment about a "minor incursion" was intended to invite Russia in, and then the plan was to destroy Russia economically with sanctions. So under Biden, Russia was guaranteed to go in. If Putin had allowed Ukraine to simply join NATO, he would have been deposed in short order by the Russians. Every leader any American ever talked to in Russia said that if Ukraine joins NATO, war is inevitable.
Here's hoping the military intelligence we are getting in this beta test of so many of our weapons systems is worth the price.Heck, cycling out old stock might be a good idea, if it is replaced with newer and better versions. And that, much like the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, we can refill all necesary empty shelves asap.
I, for one, expect those Chinese drone celebrations with 10,000 drones doing light shows in the sky, are merely tests for AI coordination of how to clear a battlefield without human presence. Here's hoping we are improving our own capabilities by use in Ukraine.
Fuck every one of you assholes still clamoring for war in Ukraine. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union our country has pushed the boundaries of NATO right to the Russian border. It’s basically all they asked that we not do. But no. We got a military industrial complex to feed. We got Politicians to bribe. All the various apparatchiks have investments in war machinery. Jeezus people. All that let’s go around the world and start wars thing IS NOT WORKING. Again, get your asses over there. Send your money. Better yet send your favorite child. Go ahead. Do it you fucking pussies.
In an era of $2 trillion annual deficits, I'm really sick of the 'taxpayer dollars' concept. The problem is these aren't taxpayer dollars, in that it is not funded by taxpayers, in that it is just more debt that will never be repaid.
Dr. Weevil: Zelensky has ONLY banned three parties. We got parties trying to destroy us from within also. They aren’t banned.
Got some stocks you're concerned about?
The Crack Emcee said...
Now if they'd just do this to Israel,...
I'd be perfectly fine with, as you put it, doing this to Israel. I'm quite confident that they can take care of themselves. Albeit, perhaps a bit more brutally if they were going it alone. That wouldn't offend me in the least.
LLR-democratical and Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasist Chuck: "Git 'er done:
U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 casualties."
Would this be the same US "Intelligence" community that has failed to anticipate every major geo-political/military inflection point event for the last 70 years while silumtaneously completely turning its focus inward towards US citizens opponents?
Why yes. Yes it would.
The same US "Intelligence" community that told us 10 tounds of increasing sanctions would cripple the russki economy (it didnt) and crush the russkis ability to manufacture sufficient numbers of weapons to prosecute the war in Ukraine (it didnt) --remember the lies about russkis reduced to frontal "meat assaults" with nothing but farm tools (they weren't), and on and on and on.
The same US "Intelligence" community that told us Hunters laptop was russian disinfo?
This US Intelligence community is chock full of buffoons like John Brennan and James Clapper and Philip Bump and Ivy league wokesters taking a knee for BLM.
The days of Wild Bill Donovan and his OSS Alumni were over by the late 50's, and then the run of astonishing incompetence really accelerated, leading us downill to where we are now.
Now I know LLR-democratical Chuck believes himself to be well informed in this area because he himself wrote in a long winded, torturous War and Peace length post at Althouse blog, that he once deeply pondered, for about 14.76 seconds, joining the military, but didnt. Plus, some family member supposedly served in WW2 so somehow that carried over to him in some bzarre way.
I always assumed that LLR-democratical Chuck's little jaunt down Almost Stolen Valor Lane is probably a key factor LLR-democratical Chuck has spent years passionately defending the decades-long Stolen Valor claims disgrace of dem Sen Blumenthal while Chuck also viciously attacks any conservative/republican with a strong military background.
Only Chuck's many, probably, psycho-therapists know the full answer to that.
Its been reported quite widely that democraticals tend to have much higher rates of diagnosed mental illness, thus LLR-democratical Chuck's posting proclivities make alot of sense really.
Whats really hapoening to drive the Forever War crowd and the associated politicized US "Intelligence" communities BS pronouncements in support of the Forever War military-industrial-disinformation-money laundering strategy:
"President holds meeting with world's largest investment company on creation of fund for rebuilding Ukraine"
5 May 2023 - 22:08
Its all Blackrock and DC isiders setting up for raping American taxpayers to fill their own coffers..to the tune of Trillions.
Trillions baby!
"At the meeting, Ukraine's Ministry of Economy signed an agreement with BlackRock Financial Market Advisory on providing support services to the Ukraine Development Fund.
The main goal of the fund's creation is to attract private and public capital for implementing large-scale business projects in Ukraine.
It'll be bigger than the Iraq rebuild corruption! Hooray!
Champagne will be flowing from the taps in the Hunger Games Capita...er..I mean DC!!
https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/prezident-proviv-zustrich-iz-kerivnictvom-najbilshoyi-u-svit-82725#:~:text=At%20the%20meeting%2C%20Ukraine's%20Ministry,scale%20business%20projects%20in%20Ukraine.
Dr Weevil, your refutations (which I believe are largely factually though still somewhat debatable) would be a lot more believable without the hyperbole you included in your post at 7:44pm
If Russia is unable to occupy and defeat Ukraine after it gets the current paltry, according to you, level of support from the US and NATO, under what conditions does it seem reasonable to imagine the same Russians are going to steamroll through the rest of the former Soviet Republics, much less full NATO members like Hungary and Poland, if only they get a foothold in Ukraine? They weren't able to fully occupy Ukraine at the start of the current round even though the two have been involved in a low-level conflict since at least 2014.
Also, it's not simply enough to dump equipment on the Ukrainians. It takes months to years to build up the logistical and support structures, as well as operational training, that make weapons systems like F16s and M1 tanks viable in a fight. That means, more than likely, that US troops or at least contractors would be necessary to support those systems in the field in the near term. I also highly question the assertion that we have vast quantities of equipment like F16 jets and M1 tanks just lying around to be used up. We're not producing replacement equipment at anywhere near the scale that it gets attrited in modern combat, something that has been well known since the near-peer Arab-Israeli conflicts in the 1970s and is being demonstrated again in this conflict.
I am also a bit unclear on why you supposed the Russians are going to observe the diplomatic charade that those US F16s armed with US supplied weapons maintained by US trained and paid contractors making deep strikes into Russia territory, because that's the only way the Russians are actually going to be ejected from Ukraine as you appear to think feasible, are really *wink wink* Ukrainian because we slap some different paint on them. The Biden administration appears to disagree with that assessment since it doesn't even want US ordnance expended outside Ukraine's borders.
While there certainly could be a Russian collapse, possibly due to Putin's demise, it seems much more likely based on past history of the conflict that the current stalemate will continue without a significant input of external combat power in the form of NATO (which really means the US). That would be a significant change from the current claims that Ukraine can prevail with just a little (well, maybe a lot) more material support from the US. Unless Ukraine supporters are willing to talk about next steps if the stalemate continues I think you are going to continue to see harsh criticisms from skeptics that see a slow stumbling walk into a direct US-Russian conflict.
American's are historically ignorant and don't understand Russia's point of view.
The Soviets lost 27 Million people in WWII. The United States; 250K. The Soviets held off the Germans so the US, Canada, and Britain could build up for D-Day. The strategy of first Africa, then Italy, then France ultimately worked but the Russian people paid the highest price.
It's not just Putin that wants the buffer zone. Russians in Moscow and St. Petersburg want the same.
Although technology has shrunk the world, the United States is still protected by the oceans.
NATO was created in 1949. Why does the US and Western Europe insist on using NATO to poke the bear?
Weevil: "We have 1200 past-their-sell-by-date ATACMS, and have provided 20. Pathetic. We have hundreds of unused F-16s and M-1 tanks, and have provided a few (31?) of the latter, with a few F-16s to come next year. The Ukrainian army loves the Bradley fighting vehicle, which is not only good for killing Russians, but very survivable: when a Bradley is damaged or even destroyed, the crew generally survives, which is not true of Russian equipment. We have hundreds of surplus Bradleys. Why aren't they being sent?"
Have you tried to actually answer your own questions?
Oh, I see that you have and you came up with...someone in this administration wants Ukraine to lose.
Since that is a remarkably stupid and incorrect answer, requiring on further discussion, obviously, would you like to try again?
And really give it some thought this time. The answer is staring you right in the face.
Here's a hint: in mutiple previous wars in which the Soviets supoorted one side with miltary weapins systems and aircraft, those weapons systems snd aircrsft operators and maintenace personnel were...Soviets. maybe you can deduce why all by yourself.
Viet Nam. 1973 Israel-Arab war, amogst others.
Not to worry though. Those personnel would all be private contract westerners with big US tax dollars behind them!
Mo' money Mo' money Mo' money!
Zelenskyy (why the two Y’s? What is that?) is just doing what the Blob asked him to do: fight a proxy war for us. The guarantees he was given for US aid are now, like all the guarantees the Blob giveth, revealing their expiration date has passed. Zelenskyy is corrupt, of course, but who isn’t over there? Or here for that matter.
At any rate, that expiration date is indeed past and pity the poor Ukrainians who never saw the fine print it was printed on.
Putin has good friends in America. Many Republicans resist aid to Ukraine on the basis that anything harmful to Biden must be right for their party. GOP is operating on the basis that anything harmful to the US is great for Trump and hence GOP.
"A brick wall of resistance from Senate Republicans" is problematic for me.
========
looks like game pieces are in place now who has written 'rule book' and can play game with ze rules
will the wall collapse? don't hold breath.
Chuck make a good point. Secure the border and Ukraine gets $60Billion — everything else is just noise.
Bottom Line... It won't be dumbocrat's kids getting shredded with "boots on the ground". That is why America doesn't fight to win any more. It's someone else's kid.
So, let's see, we're supposed to resist the invasion of Ukraine more vigorously than the invasion of the US of A itself?
========
clever move for Putin would be send battalions to US south border?
More bald-faced lies from 'tim in vermont'. I'll just pick out the stupidest: "Putin allowed for Western guarantees, to address that mistrust". Ukraine already has Western guarantees, in the Budapest Memorandum, that we would guarantee Ukraine's 1991 borders in return for them giving up their nuclear weapons and long-range bombers. How's that working out? Are we supplying them with the weapons needed to restore their 1991 borders? No. Agreements with Putin are worthless. Case closed.
M Jordan (9:09am):
"Zelenskyy (why the two Y’s? What is that?) . . .". Are you really too fucking lazy to look him up on Wikipedia and find out how he spells his own name? That's his name, just as his country is Ukraine, not "the Ukraine", and the capital Kyiv, not "Kiev". Some Americans who Russianize the spelling of Ukrainian names do so to be offensive, some out of ignorance. You should avoid both.
Bottom Line... It won't be dumbocrat's kids getting shredded with "boots on the ground". That is why America doesn't fight to win any more. It's someone else's kid.
Win? Win what?
What has the average American "Won" from all the useless Wars of the 20th century, or Iraq or Kuwait? Nothing.
Who controls the "Donbass" or Crimea has ZERO to do with USA's security or national interest. 5 years from now NO ONE in the USA will care who controls them. It seems like every 5-10 years we need some new foreign villian who's going to CONQUER THE WORLD!! unless we send BILLIONS overseas or fight a war.
Then we get the refugees from our latest "Noble Crusade" and then everyone forgets it, and moves on to the next foreign war.
Its all so nonsensical from the standpoint of the USA's national interest, I've concluded Americans just LOVE war. They love playing "RisK" and its so much more fun when its real life and not a board game.
Dr Weevil said...
... Ukraine already has Western guarantees, in the Budapest Memorandum, that we would guarantee Ukraine's 1991 borders in return for them giving up their nuclear weapons and long-range bombers. How's that working out? Are we supplying them with the weapons needed to restore their 1991 borders? No. Agreements with Putin are worthless. Case closed.
12/13/23, 9:34 AM
Dude, you are not doing yourself any favors with posts like this.
Russia first invaded Crimea in 2014, almost 8 years ago, followed by incursions and support for 'separatist' groups in Donbass. I certainly don't remember US or NATO providing sufficient support to do anything like restore Ukraine's borders from 2014 to 2022. And the primary takeaway you get from this is that agreements with Putin are worthless? I'd draw a different conclusion.
Blogger Dr Weevil said...
M Jordan (9:09am):
Weevil: ""Zelenskyy (why the two Y’s? What is that?) . . .". Are you really too fucking lazy to look him up on Wikipedia and find out how he spells his own name? That's his name, just as his country is Ukraine, not "the Ukraine", and the capital Kyiv, not "Kiev". Some Americans who Russianize the spelling of Ukrainian names do so to be offensive, some out of ignorance. You should avoid both."
Lighten up Francis.
LLR-democratical Rich: "Chuck make a good point. Secure the border and Ukraine gets $60Billion — everything else is just noise."
LOL
LLR-democratical Rich tells us LLR-democratical Chuck made "a good point"!
Could you guys at least TRY to make it less obvious? Of course Team LLR-democratical circle jerk wont be complete until lonejustice pops in "organically" and "totally spontaneously" (wink wink).
Unless lonejustice has already popped in and I just missed it...which is easy to do given how forgettable his postings usually are.
A typical LLR-democratical posting sequence at Althouse blog...and every bit as scripted:
Olsen Johnson is right!...Dr Samuel Johnson is right about Olsen Johnson being right....Howard Johnson is right!...Thank you Van [Johnson]....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3NaQxUEfxt0&pp=ygUgQmxhemluZyBzYWRkbGVzIGpvaG5zb24gaXMgcmlnaHQ%3D
"2. Europe needs to pay for the war in Ukraine! They are already doing so."
They should be paying for all of it. Whatever we pay should be guaranteed by timber, gold, oil, etc. No free fucking rides.
"Finally, I don't understand how you believe Alaska is in danger of Russian aggression. However, if Russia were so foolhardy to take any such action, my bet is on the US of A protecting its own interests."
Like when the spy balloon flew over Alaska and then the continental United States?
Christopher B:
Draw any conclusions you want. I was answering tim in vermont's stupid assertion that Ukraine should have negotiated with Russia, and that everything would be all right if they had. US untrustworthiness is a different subject, worth discussing in a different context.
'Its all Blackrock and DC isiders setting up for raping American taxpayers to fill their own coffers..to the tune of Trillions.'
It's a great grift; pump up defense stocks blowing shit up, and then make a ton more building it back better.
Maybe that's what Biden meant by BBB...
Weevil: "Christopher B:
Draw any conclusions you want."
Since I would very much like to associate myself with Christopher B.'s remarks, I will take the opportunity to say: Thank you.
However, since I can only speak for myself on this, I will add that I will indeed draw all the clear and irrefutable conclusions for which the facts and history and clear intent and actual capabilities of the actors make manifest.
And to that I shall add: You're welcome.
There now. We've come full circle.
The issue of Nuclear weapons after USSR fell apart was not limited only to Ukraine.
There were Soviet Nuclear military installations in Russia (RSFSR), Ukrainian SSR, Belorussian SSR and Kazakhstan SSR. After all those Soviet Republics became sovereign states, they came into possession of Soviet Nuclear materiel. "Nuclear proliferation" immediately became a very big issue in early 1990s. Diplomatic corps the world over worked long and hard to resolve this issue. The solution they came up with by 1994 was that Russia was recognized as legal successor of the USSR and Ukraine, Belorussia and Kazakhstan were recognized as new sovereign states with no claims or responsibilities with regard to any Soviet legacies. About that time all Nuclear materiel from old Soviet republics was transferred to Russia and issue of "Nuclear proliferation" was put on the back burner.
Lets see now, what is the going rate for say, an average mercenary fighter/bomber pilot, with at least 100 hours of combat time against modern anti-aircraft missile systems and equally qualified and equipped oppo fighters?
And remember, these guys would have to be real. No more hilariousy hoax-y but-easy-to-fool-the-true-believer-types "Ghost of Kiev's"!
And remember, we're talking about the F16 in a ground support role so effectiveness becomes a concern. That joy-stick conrolled "magic 9-G" turn ain't the best option for hitting armored vehicles and troop formations.
Not to worry though: Lockheed Martin, fresh off all their space systems delays and cost overruns stands ready to upgrade components and avionics and weaps as necessary for any of the kajillion F16s sitting around and mothballed in the desert or in hangars around the world!
Hooray!
I can almost feel LM's share price edging up as I write that!
Dr Weevil said...
"...his country is Ukraine, not "the Ukraine", and the capital Kyiv, not "Kiev". Some Americans who Russianize the spelling of Ukrainian names do so to be offensive, some out of ignorance. You should avoid both"
Dreevil, you ignorant slut, it was explained to you on many occasions and by many people that Russian and Ukrainian languages don't have articles, definite or indefinite. When English speaking comedians make fun of Russian or Ukrainian speech they always make a point not to use articles. Thus it is always 'Ukraina', never 'a' and never 'the'. Only English speaking people would ever say "The Ukraine", no Russian or Ukrainian speaker will ever say that. So people who say "The Ukraine" do not Russianize it, they Anglicize it. Do you get it now?
Likewise, "Kiev" was Anglicized name of the city for hundreds of years. Russians don't care whether you write 'Kiev' or 'Kyiv' because Russians use different alphabet. Do you understand principal differences between different alphabets? Here's a clue, words in different alphabets look different. In Russian alphabet it is "KUEB" and in Ukrainian alphabet it is "KUIB". So if you want to show your support for Ukraine, write "KUIB" and be proud how smart it makes you look.
BTW a border deal would be a LIFELINE for Biden's electoral chances.
And then he can unseal the border when he's re-elected.
So its a stupid deal to NOT take.
I do not know what the hell is wrong with so many alleged conservatives that they oppose halting Putin's expansionist efforts
Have you not been paying attention. Conservatives rallied to support Ukraine when it mattered and authorized arms before Russia invaded. After Biden was sworn in he cancelled further arms shipments to Ukraine and told Vlad a "little incursion" might be all right. Then Joe comtinued to slow-walk every bit of the help authorized by Congress, so now we are in the position where we do not trust Biden to actually prosecute the war, because he has prolonged a war he should have prevented.
Add to this the facts that he cannot articulate what "winning" would look like in any measurable terms, that he and Democrats have blocked any oversight or accounting of where the dollars went so far*, that there are credible reports of Zelenskyy and his advisors spending lavish sums on mansions in Europe, and that prior proclamations of amazing progress have not been borne out by the facts of course we oppose a continuation of the war as it is being prosecuted. It has become a classic stalemate, and since Biden lets Zelenskyy do all the talking, his shifting goal posts (recapture invaded territories at first and now taking back all territory ceded since 1991!) and reluctance to articulate an effective strategy do not inspire confidence.
*We do know that we are paying for "infrastructure" there, for pensions for Ukraine public employees, and measures to "strengthen Ukraine's border**," and it is only fair that we be given a FULL accounting before sending billions more.
**This is especially galling given the conditions on our own borders because of Biden policies.
Oh and yesterday Biden blurted out that he would definitely admit Ukraine to NATO, perhaps the most provocative thing an American president could say when others are calling for a negotiated settlement.
Why be stupidly and deliberately provocative towards Putin?
Apparently Candide is too fucking stupid to do the basic research before insulting others. If you DuckDuckGo "Ukraine vs. 'The Ukraine'", the very first result (link) is a scholarly post explaining that Russians use two different prepositions to refer to being in an area, one for independent countries, the other for mere regions, and that Putin makes a point of using the latter for Ukraine, and he does it to degrade and defame them. Translation cannot always be word-for-word, and Ukraine vs. 'The Ukraine' is the English equivalent of the Russian difference.
There's something to be said for ignoring new names of historical cities when the renamers are brutal tyrants and the new names commemorate brutal tyrants. Continuing to refer to Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Ho Chi Minh City by their previous names is reasonable. But Ukraine is an independent democratic nation, and they prefer to be called Ukraine, and their capital Kyiv, in English. Only assholes insist on calling them 'The Ukraine' and 'Kiev' in English. Assholes like 'Candide', who similarly alters the chosen pseudonyms of people he argues with.
fairmarketvalue (10:16am):
I have not "concluded the Bradley is such a wonderful survivable vehicle", the Ukrainians driving them have. If "there are so many surplus Bradleys", why aren't we sending them all to the people who need them? No doubt we have better, newer equipment for our own troops. The fact remains that Bradleys are far superior to the Soviet and post-Soviet equipment used by both sides in Ukraine, as judged by the people using them in Ukraine. Did you even read the part about survivability?
And Russia does not have "10x" the manpower of Ukraine. Their population is 3-4 times larger, and they have taken vastly larger casualties in the war so far. Did you read the part about sending serial killers, Nepali mercenaries, and kidnapped Central Asian construction workers to the front? They wouldn't be doing that if they had a sufficient supply of non-cannibal Russians.
Ukraine vs. 'The Ukraine' is the English equivalent of the Russian difference.
The hell it is.
Dreevil,
You called me bad names and altered my moniker before, so don't you wax all indignant now.
It is true that "Russians using two different prepositions to refer to being in an area, one for independent countries (like "In US" or "In Japan" etc) the other for mere regions (like "On Ukraine" or "On Bahamas" etc), but it has absolutely nothing to do with English language articles. By the way, Ukrainians themselves often say "On Ukraine" (NA Ukraini). Also expression "NA Ukraine" is very common in Poland.
There is no point talking about it because when official Russian agencies speak about Ukraine in English they always use the standard Anglicized formulation "In Ukraine".
All these purported controversies like "Kiev" versus "Kyiv, "On Ukraine" versus "In Ukraine", must be ginned up by some Kievan PR flunkies in desperate efforts to justify their absence from the frontlines.
I don't believe I've ever altered anyone's moniker in insulting ways unless he (it's always a he) had already done the same to me. So, Candide, what did I call you, and what had you called me before that? Put up or shut up.
While you're at it, take your implication that I may be a Ukrainian draft-dodger and stick it up your ass. I've been commenting here for something like 15 years, revealing a lot about myself along the way, which means you either know that's not true, or don't care whether it's true or not. Of course, writing "Kievan" shows you're the kind of guy who would go to Izmir and tell the Turks it's really Smyrna: an asshole.
Weevil: "Of course, writing "Kievan" shows you're the kind of guy who would go to Izmir and tell the Turks it's really Smyrna: an asshole."
Ha! The exact conversation a few of us had in Izmir at the US airbase there sometime back!
Normally I hated every interaction with our robin's egg blue/ascot wearing Air Force sissy brethren but, lets face it, the Air Force box lunch is always by far the best deal going.
I'm not kidding. Off the charts.
So, always refuel and schedule interoperability meetings with the Air Force dudes at their bases.
Thanks, 'ago', for illustrating exactly how one gets me to alter his moniker: by altering mine. As I've said before, give me back my 'Dr' and I'll give you back yours.
Weevil: "Thanks, 'ago', for illustrating exactly how one gets me to alter his moniker: by altering mine. As I've said before, give me back my 'Dr' and I'll give you back yours."
No thanks. It matters not a whit.
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