Writes James Parker, in "Comedians Only Care About Comedy/A new book cured me of any attachment to the idea of the stand-up as truth-telling philosophe" (The Atlantic).
Donald Trump, the stand-up at the gates of hell, is obviously a massive problem for comedy. Clinically humorless, destitute of jokes, too strange to be hacky, and with the comic precision of a broken bicycle chain, he still—as the comedians say—destroys. He kills, night after night. He gives people, by God, that comedy feeling, or his version of it: gaseous, loopy, sneering, idolatrous, incipiently violent. Fascist levity. He’s almost a prop comic, but his prop is human weakness....
But then Parker quotes a Trump joke, and it's a funny joke....
“I can be more presidential than any candidate that ever ran, than any president, other than maybe Abraham Lincoln when he is wearing his hat.”
... a silly, funny joke. I like how Parker called Trump "almost a prop comic" and then we got Abe Lincoln with his prop, that stovepipe hat. It would be unpresidential these days to show up in an Abe Lincoln hat, but I remember a candidate for Wisconsin governor who wore one.
The book Parker is discussing is "Comedy Book: How Comedy Conquered Culture–and the Magic That Makes It Work" by Jesse David Fox.
ADDED: Ah! Here's my old post: "Dressing like Abe Lincoln and kissing a baby — it's Scott Walker's challenger for the Republican slot in the recall election":
Is that gubenatorial?
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28 comments:
He lost me at Stephen Colbert and laughter...
This constant cultural RickRolling of Trump - Ain't never gonna give you up..... as he's salted into each and every story on almost any subject. Truly amazing phenomenon.
But in a way, Trump is a consummate entertainer and comedian, when you think about it, because he can do something that few others have the talent to do: He gets a reaction that erupts, spontaneously, from the viewer, and the reaction comes with fewer-than-normal constraints of self-control - sometimes, none. The reactions become a form of entertainment, themselves: Whether they're angry or ecstatic, these poor slobs just can't help themselves. That's Entertainment!
That's not funny.
Does he think it's a big new discovery that there are different kinds of laughter? He missed the best laugh of all, as described by C. Montgomery Burns upon stepping into a dive bar, "Ahh, the mirthless laughter of the damned."
And for most of us, behind all of this, the feeling that we’re whistling past the graveyard: that the sludge is rising, politically; that the bullyboys are cracking their knuckles
He's right, here. Most people hear the sounds of the bullyboys cracking their knuckles. Unfortunately, everybody, even the bullyboys themselves, think somebody else is the bullyboy.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Trump is a fascist.
I googled the definition of fascism:
"Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy"
So we certainly have the centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. But it can't be fascism because the left-wing is in charge of the government, NGOs, and most corporations.
And for most of us, behind all of this, the feeling that we’re whistling past the graveyard: that the sludge is rising, politically; that the bullyboys are cracking their knuckles; that we’re 'just kind of half-waiting,' as Marc Maron put it in a recent HBO special, 'for the stupids to choose a uniform.'
I'm desparately trying to understand this comment, since 95 percent of comedy in the "Entertainment Industry" and in comedy clubs is anti-Trump, leftwing, and attacking the same old targets over and over and over again. Its
And the only place for "Trumpian laughter" is during a Trump rally, or maybe Grunfelt on Fox. Its not 50 percent Right, 50 percent left. Its 95 percent left, 5 percent "trumpian".
Comedians have a problem. the censorship is coming from the extreme left. But like most liberal/leftist they HATE attacking Left. They only want to attack Right. But conservatives aren't restricting their jokes, the Left is.
How did we arrive at a place where Jordan Peterson...
Better question; how did we arrive at a place where some asshole writer at The Atlantic is final arbiter of what's funny and what's not?
I must say that as someone who loved Colbert on the "Colbert show", I was shocked at how unlikable and unfunny he is on late night. "Trump is Putin's cockholster" was about as good as he got, and that's not very good.
Kimmel is even dumber, and more unfunny. He makes Jay Leno seem like Albert Einstein.
It was inevitable that late night would go into the trash once average educated Americans stopped watching Network TV. That left the only brake on Hollywood putting out stuff they wanted. Well go watch Leno and Colbert, this is what the TV execs always wanted. Now they got it.
So wrong and so right. Even with so many clueless statements in one except of an article, the fact remains, one thing matters. Is is it funny?
After taking in hours and hours of the "inside baseball" of comedians talking amongst themselves on Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, Seinfeld (Comedians in Cars...), etc.. That is the consensus.
I think humor is a binary system.
Funny or not funny.
This is funny...
"The female brain is one of the most competent and capable organs in all of the biological universe. Girl power! You're goddamned right. There's nothing the female brain cannot do. It will solve all problems of Earth and life. Having completed that, it will move on to the hypothetical. Theoretical situations that may or may not occur. The female needs to know how you might respond."
Banana-gate.
Funny!
'while Dave Chappelle—one of the funniest men alive—burns up his comic capital defending his right to be mean about trans people?""
When has comedy not been about being mean about someone?
I once observed to my son that his generation was far more comfortable with riffing on other races and ethnicities than the young of my generation ever were. He replied that, malicious, self-referential, or merely observant, that kind of humor is predominant because it's instantly understood by everyone.
There used to be this real estate guy who, having made his pile decided to go into TV an entertainer.
Starting at the top with his own show he ran for 13 years. Many of those years with a2 hour time slot. Always one of the top rated shows.
Finally fired at the top of his game for saying true but mean things about illegal aliens.
All as a part-time job while running a huge multi-national business.
But this fellow apparently knows nothing whatsoever about entertainment or connecting with people.
Yeah, right Mr who-the-heck-has-ever-heard-of-you-comedian-man-with-a-book-to-pimp
John Henry
I've never seen Marc Macron's comedy act, but I've listened to his podcast a few times. You'd never know he was a comedian. His conversations are earnest. The time I listened, he explained in detail why it's not funny to use the term "retard". It's sort of antithetical to a comedian's identity to explain why something's NOT funny....I give Conan credit. He tries to be funny on his podcast. The punchline is never far away. He's reliably liberal, but he recognizes that his task is to be funny and not to evangelize for liberal causes. Good for him.... Journalists are no longer objective in their reporting, and comedians no longer try to be even handed in their jokes.. Comedians should direct their jokes at things that are funny or, if they want to be political, take a few shots at both sides.
They should be above the fray like Puck: "What fools these mortals be" as opposed to putting on an Ass Face and braying at the moon....There was some Republican Congresswoman who got thrown out of a theater for vaping and making out. There was some Democratic Congressman who pulled a fire alarm and gave a weird excuse for doing so. Both Congress members were funky and worthy of ridicule. I would bet dollars to donuts that jokes about the Republican outnumber those about the Dem by a ratio of one hundred to zero...As Will Rogers said, I've never met a late night comedian I didn't dislike.
This fella doesn't sound like someone who laughs a lot.
Lighten up, Francis.
Guy needs to watch some Bill Burr.
And remember, no laughing about trans people, even if they try to stab you.
When I hear loud, sustained laughter from the other room, I know my wife is watching Graham Norton clips on YT.
Do lefties just deny that insult humor ever existed or continues to exist?
How is it that Trump making fun of Senator Fake Indian is any less comedy than Kimmel or Colbert making fun of the fake resume Congressman in New York?
'while Dave Chappelle—one of the funniest men alive—burns up his comic capital defending his right to be mean about trans people?""
Now do Kathy Griffin
A new book cured me of any attachment to the idea of the stand-up as truth-telling philosopher
I'm sure that Anita Bryant and Jerry Falwell took much the same view of Lenny Bruce and George Carlin.
Leftists are congenitally unable to recognize the preachy, humorless, moralistic religious fanatic looking back at them from the mirror.
"How did we arrive at a place where Jordan Peterson, who wouldn’t know a good joke if it ran him over, is instructing us on the importance of comedy as a defense against totalitarianism..."
I would think a critic, of all people, would understand that you can criticize a work without yourself being able to create that kind of art. Jordan Peterson is a serious guy and IMHO, not funny, but that tells me nothing about whether or not he knows good comedy from bad. Even if Peterson can't recognize good comedy (no evidence one way or the other) that still doesn't refute the rather obvious truth that comedy could be a defense against totalitarianism.
In any case, I doubt that Peterson grants all comedy as a defense against totalitarianism. I wouldn't be shocked if Peterson has opined on how it is used to defend nascent totalitarians, in the form of almost every late night comedy show.
I doubt that's what James Parker had in mind when critiquing Peterson, but how could he not arrive at Trump as a comedian, using comedy for his own totalitarian ends?
Comedy took a big hit when Norm died.
Chappell is the only truly funny man left.
"Dressing like Abe Lincoln and kissing a baby — it's Scott Walker's challenger for the Republican slot in the recall election": Is that gubenatorial?
Kissing babies is way more gubernatorial than aborting babies.
Sweet photo!
Honest Abe knows what a person is.
I recall listening to a Jordan Peterson podcast in which he was monologuing about art, and had his thesis was that the ultimate purpose of all art--all true art--is religious--to express a sense of the transcendant (or something). In any event he was typically extremely earnest and serious, tying in strands ancient and modern, high and low, biblical and scientific. At one of the high points he expressed his belief that even punk rockers are creating, or seeking to create, something transcendant and beyond the perceived reality (or something. He said that if you meet some punk rockers, you shouldn't reject them, but tell them that they are engaged in a transcendant religious quest for meaning. He then said "Of course they will just tell you to Fuck Off!", which absolutely brought down the house.
Thank you, Ron F.
One of the many tragedies of Norm MacDonald's premature death is that we will never get to see Norm and Peterson interview each other.
That would be fascinating. A glimpse into the Canadian ur-text.
Mark Steyn is the funniest man in politics. And culture. And music.
Colbert is just terrified someone will notice that he got his start brutally mocking gays, lesbians, and black men on Strangers With Candy.
rcocean said...
"Kimmel is even dumber, and more unfunny. He makes Jay Leno seem like Albert Einstein."
Jay Leno is the Albert Einstein of classic cars. Watch an episode of "Mansions & Motorcars" and you'll see.
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