Greene had called Boebert a "little bitch."
Are female "fellow members" treated differently from male fellow members? I don't like the name-calling, but I assume members of Congress call each other names from time to time. I just want to know if the standard is different when the slur is gendered female, when the person slurred is female, and/or when the hurler of the epithet is female. Are the males coming to the aid of the female, paternalistically? Does it not matter when the group is right-wing and perhaps presumably comfy with old-time sex roles?
Posts
86 comments:
"Are the males coming to the aid of the female, paternalistically?"
We've all been told not to do that anymore...hegemonic masculinity and all. Rather they should find some folding chairs, pop some popcorn, and fill the octagon with mud.
If you are a penis-haver, it is extremely important that you NOT help women fight their battles in any way shape or form. I say this because I am a true feminist.
but I assume members of Congress call each other names from time to time.
Why would you assume that? Your post is really digging to find something to complain about Republicans, one theoretical piece of feminist claptrap piled atop another. You do this because you are evil, and proud of the fact.
No woman must be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
Does anybody think we'd be reading about this here if a man had been punished for using that phrase to refer to a woman?
How about if a man had not been punished for using the phrase to refer to a woman? The outrage meter would have maxed out on that one I bet.
"...when the slur is gendered female..."
What do you mean by that? That it is only an insult directed at females? In this case that is true, as the alleged target is female.
But men have been called "bitch" as an insult for at least a couple of decades.
The rules of decorum might apply differently to MTG, who's something of an embarrassment to mainstream Repubs, in and out of Congress.
Give me those old time sex rules, they’re good enough for me. They result in exceptional grand children and then exceptional great grandchildren too.
This seems like an area where the standards for getting rid of people they want to get rid of are different from the standards for getting rid of people they don't want to get rid of.
Chick fight!
I don't know, sounds more like sisters fighting / arguing if you ask me.
I forget the context but Greene thought that Boebert did something / said something - badly?
in such as a way as to self aggrandize ?
using an argument to open up a different attack vector ? ( is that referred to as out of turn ?)
or maybe stole an argument that Greene herself wanted to pursue ?
So Greene got personal, like sisters would do, and it was on the House floor, so Boebert and others used it to aid their arguments to push Greene out of a small clique.
The truth is, the Freedom caucus members had / have Other arguments to push Margie out.
This is just the easiest one for the opinion writers to raise.
The point is you're supposed to keep it off the House floor.
That's because there are too many "little bitches" in the Legislature to know which one you're talking about.
Whether name calling occurs between members, and I'm sure it does, is only half the question here. There are certainly names that carry a lot of extra baggage and "bitch" is definitely one of them.
What kills me in instances like this is that these are adults with the prerequisite number of years of living experience that they should both a) be able to control themselves in all but the most extreme situations, ie, life-threatening and, b) be able to insult people without touching some stupid, unnecessary third-rail gutter term. Hell, insulting people without directly saying so is not only supposed to be a Southern speciality, but also a key weapon in a politician's arsenal.
I think it's considered even more of a pejorative if the male members call each other a "little bitch."
Perhaps presumably (stereotype to follow)?
Good grief.
They all bitches and hos.
Good morning!
Does it not matter when the group is right-wing and perhaps presumably comfy with old-time sex roles?
Does it not matter when a leftie is presumably comfy with what a right-wing group is presumably comfy with?
- Krumhorn
What did the big bitch says to little bitch:. Don’t steal my spotlight you runt.
Maybe the thing isn't the thing. When you have worn out your welcome people will be less gracious toward you. It is possible this is the stated reason for doing what they wanted to do anyway. If she were less odious, maybe they would have let it slide. So instead of wondering if sex discrimination was at play, maybe we should wonder why they wanted MTG out.
old-time sex roles?
You mean the ones created by biology and 300,000 years of human existence?
Sounds like the two of them need a hard spanking to learn their lesson, and then told to hug and make up.
I volunteer to oversee the process.
I don’t trust news reports anymore.
The papers are selling indecision, and division.
I'm with space mountain. Fill the House well with mud and do it properly.
Or go back to the days of yore and the Brooks-Sumner affair when Senator Brooks beat Senator Sumner nearly to death on the Senate floor with a cane. Sumner had not even called Brooks a bitch, or even insulted Brooks himself. Brooks (a Democrat) took offense at Sumner (a Republican) insulting his cousin.
Ahhhhhh..... those were the days of senatorial eloquence:
The senator [Andrew Butler, Brooks' cousin] from South Carolina has read many books of chivalry, and believes himself a chivalrous knight with sentiments of honor and courage. Of course he has chosen a mistress to whom he has made his vows, and who, though ugly to others, is always lovely to him; though polluted in the sight of the world, is chaste in his sight—I mean the harlot, Slavery. For her, his tongue is always profuse in words. Let her be impeached in character, or any proposition made to shut her out from the extension of her wantonness, and no extravagance of manner or hardihood of assertion is then too great for this senator. The frenzy of Don Quixote, in behalf of his wench, Dulcinea del Toboso, is all surpassed.
That is some prime quality insulting right there. It far surpasses the laziness of just calling someone a little bitch.
It puts me in mind of Cyrano's speech when someone comments that "[his] nose is rather large".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFiLIsMieiQ
John Henry
Rocco said...
"...when the slur is gendered female..."
What do you mean by that? That it is only an insult directed at females? In this case that is true, as the alleged target is female.
But men have been called "bitch" as an insult for at least a couple of decades.
7/7/23, 8:32 AM
I think what she means is that when you call a man a bitch it connotes something about gender. To call a woman a bitch means she’s a bad woman. To call a man a bitch is to simply call him a woman and to imply there is something bad about being a woman. Interestingly, conservatives who use this particular epithet are indirectly signaling that they actually don’t believe gender is necessarily tied to one’s biological sex.
Civility bullshit on display. Also the ability of republicans to backstab each other on display.
You notice democrats seldom has these issues, because they stick together and continue to smash republicans faces in.
Now I am wondering if the insult was the "little" or the "bitch". Boebert is not a big woman, perhaps she is sensitive about her size?
Tale of the tape:
Boebert
Body shape: Hourglass (explanation)
Dress size: 6 (chart)
Breasts-Waist-Hips: 35-23.5-35 inches (89-60-89 cm)
Shoe/Feet: 7
Bra size: 34C
Cup size: C
Height: 5’ 4” (162 cm)
Weight: 128 pounds (58 kg)
Natural breasts or implants? Natural
https://www.bodymeasurements.org/lauren-boebert/
Marjorie Taylor Green is 3 inches shorter and 3kg heavier.
I think we are going to need some nude photos, front, side and caboose of both to properly judge what the dispute is about.
John Henry
“ What do you mean by that? That it is only an insult directed at females?”
No, as my chosen words make clear but thanks for fighting that straw woman
"...but I assume members of Congress call each other names from time to time."
I don't. I assume the members are adults, sufficiently mature to remain professionally courteous to one another, despite political and/or personal differences that may place members of Congress at odds with colleagues, and even assuming prickly personalities and inflated egos among them. How can a body comprised of members with disparate views and personalities work together to productive ends if they carry on like kids in high school or drunks in a bar?
"We've all been told not to do that anymore..."
Pffft. Men always stood back when women are fighting each other. No big change here.
"I'm not getting involved in that mess hurrr.."
Was the person being a "little bitch?" This seems important; truth as a complete defense to all defamation claims. Congress, so odds are favorable.
(Not in favor of officials calling each other "little bitch[es], but a defense of the language along these lines would have been entertaining.)
People carrying the conservative banner seem prone to stepping on their (figurative) dicks. This trait may be passed on from Trump.
Fucking idiots. Settle this crap in private.
"especially female members"
I think the removal proves the statement.
Someone who's not a little bitch would say, no, don't remove her on my account. Words like that can't hurt me.
Personally I'm in favor of honesty on the House Floor, in any form it may take.
From all the “Powered by Bitch Dust” decals I see on cars around here, I would think that was a compliment.
Reminds me of Cheney telling Leahy to fuck off. If the shoe fits...
Female behavioral "problems" in the House and Senate could be eliminated entirely if we just banned them from serving.
For every Shirley Chisholm, Tulsi Gabbard and Kristi Noem, we've had dozens if not hundreds of these: Barbara Boxer, Patty Murray, Kamala Harris, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, Lisa Murkowski, Martha McSally, Cynthia McKinney, Ilhan Omar, Hillary Clinton.
In fact, we might want to rethink the whole voting thing.
hombre: "People carrying the conservative banner seem prone to stepping on their (figurative) dicks. This trait may be passed on from Trump."
Yes indeed. The history of conservative and self-declared "severely conservative" (see Romney) performance was the very picture of perfection until Trump came along and ruined everything.
As long predicted, the entirety of all conservative/GOP failures would eventually be laid at Trump's feet allowing for a clean slate approach for the establishment that has been sticking knives in the back of the base for decades.
Dude1394: "Also the ability of republicans to backstab each other on display."
This is really about policy. MTG has chosen to go all in with McCarthy from her very conservative north GA base that she appears well-wired into, and the remainder of the Freedom Caucus sees that as working at crosspurposes to their goals.
The supposed verbiage faux pas (weak sauce) is simply another log to throw on the fire.
Its not a huge deal but all GOP internecine battles get full press play.
"I assume [Congresscritters] are adults, sufficiently mature . . . "
The US Congress? That's some high-octane petit-bourgeois delusion there.
But men have been called "bitch" as an insult for at least a couple of decades.
I'll confirm its usage dating to at least to the late sixties.
hombre said...
"People carrying the conservative banner seem prone to stepping on their (figurative) dicks. This trait may be passed on from Trump."
It's OK. 81 million of your friends stepped on their dicks in 2020 and haven't stepped off yet.
"How can a body comprised of members with disparate views and personalities work together to productive ends if they carry on like kids in high school or drunks in a bar?"
I don't know Cookie, maybe you should ask Nancy Pelosi what she was feeling and thinking when she ripped up her copy of Trump's State of the Union address.
The trumpification of the GOP continues.
any difference between cis-bitch and trans-bitch/dog
How do we know it's not flirt-fighting?
Does it not matter when the group is right-wing and perhaps presumably comfy with old-time sex roles?
Ok, I do get the tenor of the questions... but I take issue with the "I was perfectly clear, you read badly or are asking for clarification out of bad faith" bit.
In the quote above, I can understand two readings:
1. "Does it NOT matter" as in, "Is it unimportant," and
2. "Does it not matter" in the sense of, "Do I not bleed?" Or, said another way, "Don't you think it matters?"
So. Just a point on intentionalism. I bring it up because my husband ALWAYS thinks he's perfectly clear.
My favorite subtle slam was from Chuck Noll, former head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, regarding one of his running backs: "He has many problems and they are large".
Lots of hopeful progressive commentary this morning, trying to inflate a squabble between two Republican women into an allegorical, congenitally-fatal flaw in the Republican party platform.
Infantile behavior in Congress by people in high authority goes way back, even further back than a Speaker of the House ripping up her copy of the State of the Union Speech, as given by her Party Enemy. Ripped it up brattishly in full live-camera view of the nation, with a sour look on her mean, withered face.
"How can a body comprised of members with disparate views and personalities work together to productive ends if they carry on like kids in high school or drunks in a bar?
You bet.
Wait a minute, did Andy Harris just refer to Boebert as a "fellow member"? She neither is one or possesses the other. Call the language police! Let he who is without sin cast the first member out, or something like that.
but I assume members of Congress call each other names from time to time. I just want to know if the standard is different when the slur is
There are rules against name calling and disparaging other members, on the floor or not. Of course punishment is asymmetric in favor of the favorite Democrat result. No matter if Republicans are in charge or not…
Calling a women a little bitch and calling a man a little bitch mean very different things.
Probably not?
"I don't. I assume the members are adults, sufficiently mature to remain professionally courteous to one another, despite political and/or personal differences"
Go back and read some campaign ads from the 1800's the name calling is epic.
Sometimes the esteemed gentlemen do come to blows..
https://www.history.com/news/charles-sumner-caning-cilley-duel-congressional-violence
And, Sen. Sumner went on to have one of the cross-harbor tunnels in Boston named for him, so there's that.
As for the dust-up between Mesdames Boebert and Greene, I was under the impression that it was due to Boebert's calling MTG out for getting a little too cozy with Speaker McCarthy (in the way of supporting his more GOPe friendly positions) which cheesed off the Freedom Caucus members. I guess you could call it a purity test, but MTG was trying to make her bones as a Freedom Caucus member in opposition to the GOPe. I could be wrong. Doesn't matter - they're all frauds.
Offhand, I would hope the GOP members would set a more lofty standard of deportment than the chaotic and uncouth behavior of the Democrats, so this disciplinary expulsion of Notorious MTG seems laudable. However, our shared national history of party democracy has been none too clean in this respect since 1776 and long before. When Benjamin Franklin advised his fellows in the Continental Congress, "We must all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately," he wasn't just crafting a memorable phrase. The divisions exposed during the debates occasionally saw members grasping their sword hilts, though Peyton Randolph made certain no actual blood was shed. "Little bitch" is tame by comparison, though absurdly jejune.
Wouldn't it be nice if the members of our modern Congress would pledge to each their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor? What a pointless daydream. How could that pledge signify anything with half the body condemning sacred honor as white supremacy?
It's fantastic. The Freedom Caucus is like The Lord of the Flies. And in fact, the Freedom Caucus cannibalism is much like what we are seeing elsewhere in the backwaters of the Trump Party:
~ The Michigan GOP, now wholly taken over by TrumpWing extremists, is in chaos and virtual bankruptcy.
~ The senior U.S. Senator from South Carolina attends a Trump rally near his S.C. home town and is booed off the stage, with the unrelenting crowd giving him the "thumbs down" and calling him a "traitor."
~ The Georgia GOP is as divided as it has ever been.
~ Former Vice President Mike Pence disowns the Trump theory on the certification of the 2020 election, leaving his Iowa campaign audience in stony, disgruntled silence.
~ And we have TrumpWing icon Laura Loomer, declaring "RNC needs to understand, I don’t need them, I don’t like them, I don’t respect them, and I have such an enormous following among the grassroots, I can really do a lot to destroy them ahead of 2024."
There's just no way to overstate the depths of the intramural chaos, the division, the personal loathing, the animus and the dysfunction within the post-Trump Republican Party.
You only get disciplined if you're a female Republican. If AOC called another member a pejorative, she'd be hailed by the handlers as "ballsy".
Al Franken of "jazz hands" picture fame should be interviewed immediately and asked what he thinks about the kerfuffle and the eviction.
Alrhouse, would you have posted this if Elaine Stefanik, rather than Andy Biggs, made the comment?
The fools operating as GOP leaders in the House need to get their heads on straight. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), Gym Jorden (R-OH), Jim Comer (R-KY), Paul Gosar (R-AZ), et al, need to speak to the truth about future impeachments they are planning.
As NYU law professor Bob Bauer argued in a 2019 paper published in Lawfare, the Senate, controlled by the Democrats, may not be constitutionally obliged to hold an impeachment trial.
The Constitution does not by its express terms direct the Senate to try an impeachment. In fact, it confers on the Senate "the sole power to try,” which is a conferral of exclusive constitutional authority and not a procedural command. The Constitution couches the power to impeach in the same terms: it is the House’s “sole power.” The House may choose to impeach or not, and one can imagine an argument that the Senate is just as free, in the exercise of its own “sole power,” to decline to try any impeachment that the House elects to vote.
Recall that GOP Senate Leader Mitch McConnell broke precedent by putting a stop to hearings on Merrick Garland's appointment to the Supreme Court in 2015, and Moscow Mitch never takes on a fight he cannot win.
To call a man a bitch is to simply call him a woman
No, bitch is far too figurative an insult to be simply anything concrete, whether the insulted person is a woman or a man. Literally, a bitch is a female canine, whereas a male canine is a dog.
I clearly recall my first outing in the hunt field. On a frosty October morning, I sat my horse waiting for things to start. The huntsman came outside and began to yell "Come Bitches! Bitches! Bitches!" To my untutored ears that sounded like a raucous cue for laughter, but I had been warned to keep silent. What he was doing was calling the female foxhounds to the kennel gate where they would be coupled, i.e linked by their collars by a short doubled-ended leash, separately from the larger and more aggressive males, the dogs, an example of the bewildering richness of English. There are dogs and there are hounds, and there are hounds that are dogs, and dogs that aren't dogs, aside from the thousand-and-one English dogs that are not and never were alive and dogs that aren't even nouns. And by the same token, there are bitches that aren't bitches.
You don't have to look too far back to find prostitutes excoriated as bitches. Heck, the Romans did the same thing. The Latin for pot, matella, has the alternate meaning of a female canine and the street slang meaning, a whore. Ergo, to be called a son of a bitch is a pretty severe insult, degrading you and your mother at once, at least it once was. In the age of dueling one would not bandy that phrase lightly lest one be ventilated with cold steel. Today, it often denotes comradery, particularly among soldiers. However, bitch isn't friendly, and, outside of the jargon of dog breeding and field sports, it doesn't refer to dogs or women generally. When a woman is called a bitch, it refers to her unreasonable or puerile behavior or her moral degeneracy, implying the old meaning of a prostitute. In the case of a man referred to as a bitch, it's mostly the same with the added connotation of effeminacy. In short, MTG should watch her language.
"Son of a bitch!"
I had no idea men called called each other "bitches."
Maybe they mean "trans-bitches".
Marjorie Taylor Green is the GOP's AOC.
"You notice democrats seldom has these issues, because they stick together and continue to smash republicans faces in."
That's because some republicans are really democrats in everything but name while democrats are pretty much always democrats.
Mikey NTH: "Marjorie Taylor Green is the GOP's AOC."
That's a pretty good analogy.
Both AOC and MTG come from safe, strong partisan districts and both have opted to go with their establishment wings while attempting to keep up the more radical rhetoric.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
"Offhand, I would hope the GOP members would set a more lofty standard of deportment than the chaotic and uncouth behavior of the Democrats...."
Ha!
Agree with Rabel.
and I'll add - the Biden family is crooked as the day is long... mob mob mob blackrock Soros war machine Chi Com mob...
and the GOP is petty and lame.
It sounds like shit and doesn't do a fucking bit of good.
Cocaine and cluster munitions, that's Murica buddy!
There was a man in a place called Gerlach NV who had a restaurant and Bar, and a few slots. He was ethnic Italian. Sonabich, Sonabich he often said.
I was an elected Republican official for 20 years. One of the most important things I learned, the hard way, is don't cuss at your other elected Republican officials in public. If you have to do it, do it behind closed doors.
MTG should have called Adam Schiff a "little bitch".
That just seems more fitting.
It's OK with me if you call me a "big bastard".
“Bless her heart” woulda worked better. But whatever, they’re both sex bombs to me.
“ don't. I assume the members are adults, sufficiently mature to remain professionally courteous to one another, despite political and/or personal differences that may place members of Congress at odds with colleagues, and even assuming prickly personalities and inflated egos among them. How can a body comprised of members with disparate views and personalities work together to productive ends if they carry on like kids in high school or drunks in a bar”? Jeezus Cook. They are all, every fucking one of them outside of Rand Paul despicable people. I would never befriend any one d the political class and that includes a good buddy and f mine from high school that holds a high office in my home state. What bullshit and you know it dude.
Isn't there also a difference in how men and women react to name calling? In many instances I can call another man, especially one I know, a "bastard" without taking offense. EG; "You bastard, you ate the last donut" As always, we can turn to Senifeld's Book of Life Lessons, Chapter 7,323
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4en_YVa4zQ&pp=ygURc2VpbmZlbGQgYmFzdGFyZHM%3D
On the the other hand, loser Larry gets banished from a poker game after calling Brad Hall a "C**t for winning the hand.
https://youtu.be/dEizFfNlVh0
Although I have some questions about that:
If he had called Brad a "Bastard", would that have been OK? How about a "son of a bitch"? Would "bitch" have crossed the line given the presence of women and its sexual specificity?
If there had been no women present would "c**t have been acceptable?
And why do I feel that decorum requires the ** above when our hostess, or anyone else, can call a commenter a "dick" with no qualms?
Sometimes I really miss George Carlin.
John Henry
Dick, at 2:38
You say all that, destroying Michigan party, Graham booed off stage etc as if it were a bad thing.
Some of us see that list, and others like it, as hopeful signs of a new beginning.
John Henry
AOC hates America. Marjorie Green does not Mikey Nth. So nah.
“Gendered female.” Oh for Christ sake! What’s next, assigned female at birth? How about ‘woman’.
Recall when Gadfly ate what the hack(D) lying liar press sold him?
"act check: @presssec
said there was 'irresponsible' reporting on WH cocaine because Biden family 'were not here Friday'
Hunter was at WH Friday according to @EugeneDaniels2
pool report"
Jabfly, feigned conservative/choice avoidant/Mrna indulgent stooge quotes an Obama counsel married to a Biden strategist.
With many years of Dems pounding process as punishment, jabfly bows to the Turtle mantra of fighting on;y if winning is safe.
Mikey NTH said...
Marjorie Taylor Green is the GOP's AOC.
--
Pick a higher bar. AOC is spooked by garbage disposals.
Anna Keppa said...
"Son of a bitch!"
I had no idea men called called each other "bitches."
--
Did you not hear Biden's take on his phone call re Ukrainian prosecutor?
"AOC -- who ran her 2018 primary campaign based on a vow to wage war against the Democratic Party DC establishment -- announces her support for Joe Biden's re-election in the Democratic Party primary, on the day he announced cluster bombs for Ukraine✊:"--Glenn Greenwald
The establishment is a power and money black hole which drags most elected outsiders/"rebels" across the corruption event horizon.
I think you're choosing the least important aspect of this incident.
"They are all, every fucking one of them outside of Rand Paul despicable people. I would never befriend any one d the political class and that includes a good buddy and f mine from high school that holds a high office in my home state. What bullshit and you know it dude."
I do not know that. I have no doubt that many members of Congress, and maybe even a majority, are despicable people, (including the two women at the center of this discussion). However, I am not so cynical as to accept without evidence that they all are despicable people.
Chuck and gadfly have weighed in trying to conceal the activities of the GOPe in California. They are trying quietly to prevent Trump from winning the nomination. And then lying about it.
MTG isn't just an idiot: she was planted in the race by people trying to make conservatives look bad.
The same people lost our Senate and Alabama's too.
Everything isn't semantics.
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