A musicologist for Sheeran has said the chord sequence is not unique, and gave numerous other examples of its use in songs by artists such as Donovan and the Seekers....
Sheeran has been accused of plagiarism numerous times before. In April 2022 he won a UK court battle over biggest hit, Shape of You.... In 2017, he added writers of the TLC song No Scrubs to the credits of Shape of You, after similarities had been spotted by fans, though no legal case was brought against him. Also in 2017, he settled out of court after songwriters of the Matt Cardle song Amazing claimed it had been copied by Sheeran for his song Photograph. Sheeran later said he regretted the settlement, as “the floodgates opened” to further plagiarism claims....
He made a target out of himself. Avoiding 2 fights early on, he attracted these new disputes, and he must fight or continually pay out money for the routine privilege of singing simple pop songs, which, as he testified, all sound alike.
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Not for nothing, but I hear bits of other tunes in songs I listen to quite often. A chord progression or something will trigger another song in my head. I also hear people talking to me. And sometimes prodding me ceaselessly to go into a nearby gelato shop and get another scoop. It's not me. Its the voices and the tunes. It also works with pizza.
I think I've posted this here before, but it fits the topic perfectly.
There's also a scene in The Commitments that traces Whiter Shade of Pale back through a series of earlier songs using the same melody to arrive at Bach as the original.
There's an old saying that there are only 5 (or 7 or 9) stories. That goes for pop music too. There are only a handful of songs. Sheeran might be right that he is being singled out because he once paid up; they all rip each other off.
Most pop music is derived from traditional folk music and/or classical music. Both are pre-copyright and very clearly in the public domain. Pop musicians try and sometimes succeed in turning 3 minutes of studio singing into $1,000,000 in profit and then hold on to dubious copyrights for their lives and the lives of the corporations who buy up back catalogs. It's no shock that people with easy-money careers set protection standards that favor themselves, and that dens of thieves bicker among themselves.
The patent industry has has become nothing but teams of lawyers fighting teams of lawyers to defend mega-corporations against lawsuits and to demand payments from others.
When you're a dead musician who isn't making any more music, you're a state or family is itching to find a way to bring an income and that makes people like Sheeran a target.
My favorite example of this - sorry for rickrolling the thread - is Rick Astley's two songs "Never Gonna Give You Up" and "Together Forever." I think there are like 4 measures that don't match up. I used to sing the "wrong" song over the "right" one at any opportunity. Loudly. (As Princess Fiona says in Shrek, "Man, that was annoying!")
If copyrights, like patents, only lasted twenty years then there would be fewer opportunities to overlap with copyrighted material and also less potential profit in suing over similarities.
"as he testified, all sound alike"
So when you've heard one, why bother with the rest?
Anyway, the real scandal here is a legal regime that allows for extortion long after creators are dead.
My brother brought our town to its feet dancing and screaming at the 1965 High School Talent Show by weaving together two lively songs: the Beatles "Twist and Shout" and "La Bamba". It was a revelation that they were perfect twins, and made my brother a local Star, even in my eyes.
Sheeran “testified” that the songs sound the same? That’s his opinion. Not an objective fact. Unless the chords are identical the sameness is subjective. Call the next witness.
Agree that he brought this trouble on himself. Never give an inch, concessions only encourage these people. Look at Fox settling with Dominion: that “settlement” is capitulation and the money will now be spent on more lawyers bringing more and ever-more-questionable claims against the media. Nearly a billion dollars will buy a whole lot of censorship, and redirect the shape of the “news” industry.
Wait, Rick Astley had more than one song?
Another example about how you can find an "expert" to say anything. Jury decides credibility.
I saw Apple's IP expert from MIT destroyed on the stand in Tyler, TX. He was affiliated with the website Tor which traffics in extreme porno. After cross, the jury's eyes glossed over. Case was won right there.
Here is The Who's Pinball Wizard Lyrics performed to Folsum Prison lyrics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bfPwtUTP4k&pp=ygUhcHVkZGxlcyBwaXR5IHBhcnR5IHBpbmJhbGwgd2l6YXJk
John Henry
Pinball Wizard lyrics, Folsum Prison music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bfPwtUTP4k&pp=ygUhcHVkZGxlcyBwaXR5IHBhcnR5IHBpbmJhbGwgd2l6YXJk
John Henry
https://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I
This is always entertaining.
All you have to do is bounce back-n-forth between the 5 and the 3 of a major scale and BOOM, hit song. I think Flight of the Concords did a skit about that once.
Will Cate said...
"All you have to do is bounce back-n-forth between the 5 and the 3 of a major scale and BOOM, hit song. I think Flight of the Concords did a skit about that once."
It was another Aussie band, "The Axis of Awesome". It was about four chord songs.
J Scott said...
https://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I
This is always entertaining.
If you check out my link, above, you'll see that not only are the songs derivative, but that comedy sketch is too.
Between the two, I don't hear it. I don't think the case has merit.
People seem to forget the vocalization is an instrument in the mix too, and in the case of Sheeran's song, even if the rhythm and bassline are similar, the vocals are not.
Rick Beato on songs sounding the same:
The Four Chords That Killed POP Music! (4:20) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuGt-ZG39cU
Why Today's Music Is So BORING. The Regression of Musical Innovation (32:31) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks4c_A0Ach8&t=906s
Hasn't he ever seen a film noir? You start paying blackmail--and it never ends!
On the few occasions I am exposed to today's pop music, I'm struck by how all of the songs and all of the singers sound alike.
Ariana, Taylor, Selena, Adela ... Get your scorecard here, can't tell the singers without a scorecard.
He's not really wrong:
https://youtu.be/iRNYUE9PZRE
Fortunately, most musical plagiarists only plagiarize themselves.
There is a certainly a close rhythmic similarity between the two songs, but I don't think it otherwise close enough for this lawsuit to succeed. I think I wrote a similar thing on the Shape of You post- that Sheeran was almost certainly using the older song as a template consciously or not, but has altered them enough to make them safe from infringement.
https://youtu.be/iRNYUE9PZRE
Then there's this.
"Which chords should we use for this song?"
"All of them!"
Sorry, Ed. If George Harrison was guilty of lifting He's So Fine for My Sweet Lord, then you're guilty of whatever.
In 1970, Capitol Records ran a full-page tribute ad in Billboard for its then best-selling group, Grand Funk Railroad.
In its entirety, the copy under the action photo of them on stage: "Grand Funk Railroad. Three great guys, three great chords."
John Henry, thanks!
Wait, Rick Astley had more than one song?
My point! No, he did not!
Or you can just be totally open about lifting someone else's work, e.g. A Lover's Concerto.
Corporate music leads to corporate legal scammers and fighting over copyrights.
"Den of theives" indeed.
It doesn't matter if two or several songs sound alike or not, or if the words are similar. What matters is the copyright law about using similar musical notes or words that were previously used. For example, the Pachabel Rant describes what Sheeran talks about, similar chord or note progressions. But Pachabel is in the public domain now, so no legal foul in reuse. What does Sheeran say about the legal issue of reuse of previously copyrighted, and still protected, words and music?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxC1fPE1QEE
"Hotel California" and "We Used To Know" sound very like to me, but not like enough for a suit, apparently.
IIRC, Trump used to say that it was cheaper to fight being sued than to settle--once you get a reputation as a settler, you create more incentive for people to sue you.
Also, rap, jazz, and other prehistoric rhythms. That said, interchangeable, exchangeable, and disposable in a model of diversity (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry).
Chord changes can’t be copyrighted. Melodies can.
My favorite on this topic is Canilla Ice explaining the difference between the baseline in Ice Ice Baby to the baseline in Queen’s Under Pressure. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a-1_9-z9rbY
That s**t-eating grin is the funniest.
There are no new stories. There are no new lyrics. There are no new songs.
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
Turn, turn, turn.
Mick and Keith put what they thought would be a hit record in the can. Ready for publication.
Keith played the tune "Anybody Seen My Baby?" for his daughter. Her immediate response was "Dad, that sounds like k.d. lang."
He agreed. k.d. lang was immediately credited as a writer.
Ed Sheeran played himself in a movie called "Yesterday," in which a science-fiction event causes the Beatles to be removed from history -- so no one remembers their music except an unsuccessful folk singer and a few other people. The folk singer then becomes famous by plagiarizing all the Beatles' songs and pretending he wrote them himself. In one scene, Sheeran challenges the singer to a fast songwriting contest -- Sheeran comes up with a decent pop song, but is chastened when the other guy pretends to have just written "The Long and Winding Road" in 10 minutes.
Ted said...
Ed Sheeran played himself in a movie called "Yesterday," in which a science-fiction event causes the Beatles to be removed from history -- so no one remembers their music except an unsuccessful folk singer and a few other people. The folk singer then becomes famous by plagiarizing all the Beatles' songs and pretending he wrote them himself.
The Millennial Generation's favorite fantasy! Becoming famous from someone else doing all the work, without anyone finding out about it.
Give credit to Sheeran for ripping off a great like Marvin Gaye.
Pharrell Williams did the same.
Pay up.
Fox News' profligate style of lawsuit settlement has made them quite vulnerable. There was a time when Japanese companies would do anything to avoid trial. Eventually, they figured it out. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and fight in the mud. Good luck Ed Sheeran.
Give credit to Sheeran for ripping off a great like Marvin Gaye.
Pharrell Williams did the same.
Pay up.
Thanks to all who posted links. This comment thread is my favorite in a long time.
According to Battlestar Galactica, Bob Dylan borrowed "All Along the Watchtower" from the Cylons.
Rick Beato's informed analysis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9rBN4UtkWQ
"Blogger Jeremy said...
My favorite on this topic is Canilla Ice explaining the difference between the baseline in Ice Ice Baby to the baseline in Queen’s Under Pressure. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a-1_9-z9rbY
That s**t-eating grin is the funniest."
IIRC, Ice solved the problem by buying the rights to "Under Pressure" when he had the $.
How is it possible to NOT copy someone else's song? If you hear something, it may reside in your unconscious memory forever. You cannot unhear it. You may copy portions, and not realize it.
I read a Sci Fi story about the music industry reaching the end of all possible music through computer generated creations. The solution was to destroy the copyright laws.
As Robert Plant at the last Led Zeppelin reunion concert in 2007 famously recounts, in his inimitable British accent and slang:
In 1935, Robert Johnson recorded a song called Terraplane Blues, and it's appeared in a thousand different guises since. Maybe Johnson got it from somewhere else. I'm sure he did...
Everybody nicks it.
Chord changes can’t be copyrighted. Melodies can.
Don't be too sure about that - the Blurred Lines case basically found copyright infringement of a groove and party feel.
It's almost as if every artist is a cannibal and every poet is a thief. . . .
Isn't the notion that songs fit over other songs the trick in mashing of songs featured in the "Pitch Perfect" movies. As far at that goes, it is not just pop songs. Here is a Country Music Awards video that overlayed several country songs including John Denver's "Take Me Home, Country Roads", Willie Nelson's "On the Road Again", and Dolly Parton's "I will Always Love You".
There is a pretty good series about the 70s record industry called Vinyl. I think it is Prime.
https://youtu.be/anWc88q2GhE
In this scene the young new band is complaining to their manager that they can't come up with any new music.
He tells them all they need are 3 chords E-A-B. Then grabs a guitar and riffs through a half dozen genres of music using EAB.
John Henry
I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Great Saxon Thieving Magpie, G. F. Handel. I read somewhere that sure, he stole with abandon, but usually improved what he stole.
But in that period composers stole/copied/emulated as much or more than architects did . . . nothing new, indeed.
I don't really hear any similarities between the songs.
Randy California's estate sued Led Zep twice alleging that Jimmy Page stole "Stairway to Heaven" from a Spirit tune called "Tauras." Different chord progression, different melody. They share a descending chromatic line in the lower string, but as soon as Page drops the line a half step, the chord changes.
Zep did steal its share of songs and paid royalties for them. Sheeran's right. He should have fought every attempt to sue him. It won't stop now.
Ann Althouse said:
"[H]e must fight or continually pay out money for the routine privilege of singing simple pop songs..."
In one of his last interviews, John Lennon spoke of his 5-year hiatus from the music business, and one of the reasons for walking away was that he had become a target of endless lawsuits by crooked song publishers. He couldn't belch into a microphone without some Brill Building grifter threatening to drag him into court for some alleged "infringement".
As you say: all for the desire to sing simple pop songs. So Lennon said, to hell with them and to hell with that.
Like Lennon, the only reason Ed Sheeran gets sued is because he's very successful, and because the music publishing business has been a nest of vipers for decades. Check out Tommy James's autobiography "Me, The Mob, and The Music" to see what a corrupt criminal enterprise the whole thing is. Courthouse shakedowns are the least of it.
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