I try to stay neutral on Wisconsin politics, so don't read this as an endorsement of the Democratic Party.Wisconsin is the laboratory for autocracy in America and we have to make sure that experiment fails. Watch full episode with @benwikler from @WisDems to find out what you can do to actively help save democracy in the next 6 weeks. pic.twitter.com/TiYzBsRhLX
— PoliticsGirl (@IAmPoliticsGirl) February 16, 2023
As I've said before, I like Ben personally, based on knowing him when he was a teenager.
There's an important state supreme court primary coming up next week, so pay attention.
Anyway, I liked the commentary on federalism and the role of Wisconsin. "Laboratory for autocracy" is a good turn of phrase, presumably based on the famous phrase "laboratories of democracy."
Of/for — should I quibble about prepositions? I think Ben made the word choice he did because we are not (yet) an autocracy, and "for" points to what may come into existence in the future and what, he's saying, Republicans seek. When we say "laboratories of democracy" — using "of" — we are asserting (or taking for granted) that there is democracy existing now in the individual states.
Now, Ben's phrase may mean that he thinks what conservatives are trying to do at the state level ought to count as autocracy, even though they will have been elected through the democratic process and they will be channeling the preferences of the local populace. If so, then it's not about the process but the policies to be put in place, and he may think — or intend to say — that only the policies of the Democratic Party constitute democracy.
Also, "autocracy" is a big exaggeration.
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I try to stay neutral on Wisconsin politics, so don't read this as an endorsement of the Democratic Party.
Not very hard, as far as I can tell.
As I've said before, I like Ben personally, based on knowing him when he was a teenager.
So I’m guessing he wasn’t a corrupt demagogue back then? Or is it that you secretly enjoy demagoguery, particularly when directed against Republicans?
"(it's) not about the process but the policies to be put in place, and he may think — or intend to say — that only the policies of the Democratic Party constitute democracy"
As usual, you hit the nail squarely.
Also, "autocracy" is a big exaggeration.
No, it's not. Democrats firmly, genuinely believe that if a Republican has their way about absolutely anything at all, it's one step closer to their people behind shoveled into the gas ovens.
Right, because overturning district maps drawn by the legislature per the State Constitution, in favor of maps imposed by judges based on flimsy premises is democracy. And overturning a state constitutional amendment allowing right to work in favor of involuntary association is democracy. Bought and paid for by a Supreme Court candidate whose coffers are 95% filled by out-of-state donations. That’s democracy. Got it, Benny, thanks for clearing that up for me.
Nearly every Democrat complaint is projection.
he may think — or intend to say — that only the policies of the Democratic Party constitute democracy.
democrats have made it clear; for Years, that when they talk about "Democracy", as in:
"Democracy is in DANGER!!" what they are talking about is the democrat party. It should read:
"democrat party is in DANGER!!"
Wisconsin is a kitchen for autocracy.
The big push is the Court these days. They need a liberal majority to redraw voting lines/districts. I’ve seen this push on social media for a while now. They’ve given up on actual persuasion as a method. All they are after is a reliable activist left wing Court.
It's rich that the party that wants to dictate every appliance in your house, every electoral map, every school curriculum, every demographic representation in public life, and every set of genitalia in every restroom, sees autocracy in the other major party. That much projection reminds me of drive-in movies.
Now do Antifa, as a group of White middle-class lefty role-playing revolutionaries in the Ottoman Janissary tradition. They wear all black, wear masks to hide their identity, throw rocks and bricks, condemn the US as they use Chinese made iPhones and thereby support Uyghur persecution, and who beat lefty journalist Andy Ngo until he had brain damage.
Maybe we should cordon off the San Francisco, Berkeley, Portland, Seattle, etc. as 'laboratories proven to encourage autocracy' and prosecute all inside. The locals pay for law enforcement so they should have kept their nutcases under control...dribble...dribble...dribble...
Next up BLM...
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Janissary
Also, "autocracy" is a big exaggeration.
Autocracy here is simply pejorative. Politics beget name-calling and exaggeration - much as did Governor Lee Sherman Dreyfus' motto, "Madison is 30 miles surrounded by reality," from his gubernatorial win more than 40 years ago.
Also, "autocracy" is a big exaggeration.
Autocracy here is simply pejorative. Politics beget name-calling and exaggeration - much as did Governor Lee Sherman Dreyfus' motto "Madison is 30 miles surrounded by reality" from his gubernatorial win more than 40 years ago.
Also, "autocracy" is a big exaggeration.
"Exaggeration"? I assume you're being kind because you liked him when he was a teenager.
Living as I do in the absolutely pure Democrat autocracy of Connecticut, I say that autocracy is a very bad thing.
I also say "boo, hoo." Nice to know that some Democrats have to worry that Republicans might somewhere have a say in how things are run.
RMc said...
[Also, "autocracy" is a big exaggeration.]
"No, it's not. Democrats firmly, genuinely believe that if a Republican has their way about absolutely anything at all, it's one step closer to their people behind shoveled into the gas ovens."
Shorter version: confession by projection. See: "Truth and Reconciliation Commission." See also: "Cultural Revolution."
Speaking of "laboratory for autocracy", was the oh so likeable Ben involved in the vile lawfare campaign against Scott Walker and other conservatives while Walker was governor? Remember the John Doe investigations? That was a great laboratory experiment for the future campaign against Trump. Perfect example of projection there little Ben.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/09/personal-animus-drove-democrats-lawfare-against-scott-walker.php
No, it's not. Democrats firmly, genuinely believe that if a Republican has their way about absolutely anything at all, it's one step closer to their people behind shoveled into the gas ovens.
That's ridiculous. Everyone knows the Republicans are just gonna take the Dems on helicopter rides.
In Wisconsin, both parties (and perhaps the People) seem to agree that the court is simply a super-legislature, where you only need to elect four members to get laws passed that cannot be undone by the under-legislature or the governor. Not a stable system of government, and certainly not one that can reflect the local concerns of all citizens. But a system much to be desired by those who cannot get what they want via the old-fashioned representative arrangement.
We all remember who stormed the Wisconsin capitol. And who fled the state to subvert a democratic vote. And who rioted and injured an innocent (gay, leftist) bystander.
How is it for the Dems that if the GOP wins an election, then that’s a failure of democracy?
Texas is a laboratory of freedom Ben. Come and take our Elon Musk and Joe Rogan!
We can guess what your default choice is in the voting booth.
They say that Josef Goebbels was highly articulate as well. Like Winkler, he did his best to prevent autocratic communism from taking over Germany.
"(it's) not about the process but the policies to be put in place, and he may think — or intend to say — that only the policies of the Democratic Party constitute democracy"
===========
is this any different from claiming >>
"ipsofacto/definitionally etc." that AntiFa are Against Fascism
Bob B. and many others have it right, it's just projection.
Let me know when the helicopter rides, okay?
Could I get an example of something that was tried out there and brought to the rest of the country? It sounds a bit conspiratorial, doesn't it?
As the vanguard party of the people, only the program of the Democratic Party is true democracy.
We perfected autocracy in Illinois through ruthless gerrymandering. We have locked-in supermajorities for the Demmies in the legislature and the congressional delegation.
Isn't the big issue in Wisconsin allegations of GOP gerrymandering? Good luck with that. The Demmies just want to do their own gerrymandering. They hope they can get the Wisconsin Supreme Court to open the door for them.
The one thing that never works is an after-the-fact accusation that a candidate or political party went back on a promise to end gerrymandering. By then it is too late.
I didn't watch this. Were the Koch brothers mentioned? They were the all-purpose bogeymen of the Wisconsin Demmies. Unfortunately, David Koch died, so now it is just Koch brother. Doesn't sound as threatening, does it?
But don't mention George S-r-s in any context. That would be anti-semitic. That person can only be called a person who supports Social Justice. Don't believe me? Check with John Kass, who was chased out of the Chicago Tribune newsroom because he said that person who cannot be named supported Kim (Turn 'em Loose) Foxx, the street thugs' friend, for Cook County State's Attorney.
I think it misguided to base your opinion on someone today mostly on what you saw 25 years ago. People do change.
‘Now, Ben's phrase may mean that he thinks what conservatives are trying to do at the state level ought to count as autocracy, even though they will have been elected through the democratic process and they will be channeling the preferences of the local populace…”
Wisconsin’s gerrymandering is probably among the worst in the nation. The local population’s votes are not being adequately represented.
ELECTIONS
Wisconsin's Assembly maps are more skewed than ever — what happens in 2023?
Gerrymandering continues to present a problem for Democrats and democracy in Wisconsin, but Republicans are unlikely to address the issue anytime soon.
RMc said...
Democrats firmly, genuinely believe that if a Republican has their way about absolutely anything at all, it's one step closer to their people behind shoveled into the gas ovens.
That would be horrible. Good thing Democrats prefer to shovel people into electric ovens. Much more environmentally friendly.
Articulate though he may be, I am challenged in understanding his point, other than just general demagoguery. "Democracy enchained?" Gimme a break. Democracy working as intended, I would say.
gadfly said...
Autocracy here is simply pejorative. Politics beget name-calling and exaggeration - much as did Governor Lee Sherman Dreyfus' motto, "Madison is 30 miles surrounded by reality," from his gubernatorial win more than 40 years ago.
Yeah, that's just wrong. Madison is 101.5 square miles (according to Wikipedia).
Such a nice boy, that Ben Wikler. Always said "You look younger than ever, Miz Althouse."
He invokes Fighting Bob, but his model is Tailgunner Joe.
Hard to judge how articulate he is with such a heavily edited clip.
Actually, WI is where Dems auditioned weaponized state attacking political enemies.
I wonder how that kid that got held hostage during the attack is doing these days.
Good times.
Anyway, I liked the commentary on federalism and the role of Wisconsin. "Laboratory for autocracy" is a good turn of phrase, presumably based on the famous phrase "laboratories of democracy."
I have a theory I’ll present without evidence: your man Ben here is describing the role he and the Democrats have had in that WI laboratory, trying out things like voter fraud and police raids on political enemies, then exporting them to the national stage. Pleased with the results, he delights in the dupe and can’t stop talking about it…
…but like I said, just a theory…
Ack-shoe-uhl-lee,
Its the Democrats who tried out the thuggish politics first in Wisconsin. It's propaganda 101 to blame your opponents for whatever unsavory thing you deem necessary to do to win, because it muddies the debate, and it works. Democrats are the ones who use the law to hound their opponents that they can't beat at the ballot box, Democrats who ignore Supreme Court rulings, it's the Democrats who are the "autocrats."
Look at how Biden is simply flooding America with illegal aliens in utter contravention of the law. He picks and chooses which laws he will enforce. That's an autocrat.
Blogger Inga said...
Wisconsin’s gerrymandering is probably among the worst in the nation. The local population’s votes are not being adequately represented.
False. Illinois is far FAR worse. Pritzker and Madigan were even BRAGGING about it in 2020
The only sign of autocracy in Wisconsin has been Wikler's undead overlord, Skeletor Evers who tried to unconsitutionally shut down and destroy the state economy with his illegal attempted take over. Except for his fellow crime lord colleague Jabba B. Pritzker because of "muH hOrseS!"
"super-articulate Ben Wikler"
Conflict of interest?
Articulate Wikler, heroic Fetterman--what neutral description of Dems is next?
But just to be clear on the substance, one-party rule in CA, IL, and NY is not "autocratic," correct? Cuz (D) is Different, correct?
Inga said...
"Wisconsin’s gerrymandering is probably among the worst in the nation. The local population’s votes are not being adequately represented."
That's a problem when Democrats are getting screwed. Otherwise - no need to worry.
It's not too complicated -- the dude wants that sweet out-of-state cash to flow to him and his org.
Two contested primaries on Tuesday, two lefties and two righties. Dorow (court TV and parade killer trial judge, and a woman to boot vs Kelley, true believer in the conservative cause). Wisconsin voters love to elect women judges. So if Kelley beats Dorow, and the lefty woman wins, look for her to prevail in April despite her utter lack of qualification for a state supreme court.
Autocracy? Like not having mask mandates in FL? Like favoring free speech? Like taking over the WI statehouse? what the hell do words even mean anymore?
"Wisconsin is the laboratory for autocracy in America"? Just a few short years ago the rallying cry was "This is what Democracy looks like"!
"America's Dairyland" fits better on a license plate.
WISCONSIN is the laboratory for autocracy? I am crushed. I'd figured my home state of Texas's only competition for the title was Florida. I'm crushed. The ignominy of losing out to Wisconsin!
I just love that the birthplace of the oh-so-precious progressive movement is now a laboratory for right-wing autocracy.
Democratic/dictatorial duality.
That said, a religion for people capable of self-moderation. Competing interests to mitigate progress of others running amuck. A republican form of government with a constitution to constrain liberal exercise of authoritarian impulses.
#HateLovesAbortion
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