I wish both of them would step back and let other candidates emerge. But it is worth noting that Biden's numbers are even worse than Trumps:
Among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, the Post-ABC poll finds 58 percent say they would prefer someone other than Biden as their nominee in 2024 — almost double the 31 percent who support Biden.... Among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, 49 percent say they prefer someone other than Trump as their nominee in 2024, compared with 44 percent who favor the former president.
The emotional content is interestingly different, with Trump stirring up more enthusiasm and more anger than Biden and Biden leaving people in a cooler condition:
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49 comments:
I'll be the first to say it; is this the best we've got?
What? Step aside? Never…plus Please welcome your next President of the United States Gavin Newsom are words nobody wants to hear but probably will…
Althouse said...
The emotional content is interestingly different, with Trump stirring up more enthusiasm and more anger than Biden and Biden leaving people in a cooler condition.
"I said emotional content, NOT ANGER! Now, try again. With me... Don't think. FEEL! It's like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all of the heavenly glory."
Amen, sister Ann.
These two old men have had their shot.
The corrupt machine and its cronies backing Biden have nobody to replace him, thus they will force him on us again.
A more interesting polling exercise (Althouse felt this one was 'for the annals of unnecessary polling'); The Bulwark engaged Whit Ayers' firm, North Star Opinion research, looking specifically at Republicans. (Forever Trump Republicans, Never Trump Republicans, Maybe Trump Republicans, etc.)
There is a soft plurality of Republicans ready to "move on" from Trump. But that general notion -- moving on from Trump -- presumes that Trump fans are normal party-affiliated voters. That in the event that Trump was beaten (and perhaps beaten narrowly!) in a primary, that Trump would concede, and turn to supporting the nominee (say, DeSantis) as the campaign moved past the primaries into a general election. And Trump supporters would become DeSantis supporters and enthusiastic voters.
But the Bulwark/North Star polling showed something very different, and not terribly surprising. Namely, that 28-30 percent of Trump supporters would follow Trump to a third-party candidacy. It would be fatal to any Republican hope of beating any Democratic nominee (barring any other unusual candidacies).
Personally, I cannot imagine a 2024 candidate Trump accepting any end to his campaign. I don't think it will matter if he is defeated in primary elections. He will claim the elections were rigged. It won't matter if he is indicted and scheduled for a criminal trial. He will claim that the indictment(s) are phony, and it will be all the more motivation to claim that he is the target of a political persecution.
Trump won't quit, and the most devoted Trump voters won't quit on him.
That right there is the completely fucked position that Trump-era Republicans find themselves in 2023-24.
The Bulwark/North Star polling story.
Joe Smith: "I'll be the first to say it; is this the best we've got?"
The "best" for what, precisely?
The Koch political machine, which fuels the most powerful donor network in conservative politics, is declaring itself as be part of the NeverTrump effort for 2024, aiming to deny former President Donald Trump a third nomination for the White House. The declaration, released in a recent memo to staffers and activists, never explicitly mentions Trump, but it’s abundantly clear from the tone in Americans for Prosperity CEO Emily Seidel’s message that the grassroots behemoth she leads has no plans of being a passive player in Republican politics when it comes to the White House. “Our country must move past the current political situation—we’ve got to turn the page - Time
LOL, I can't think of a better reason to be a Never everybody but Trumper.
Considering the corrupt left run the FBI, the DOJ, and CIA, the media, education, the long march thru the institutions, and the cheat-to-win if necessary in targeted states and precincts - what difference does it make?
Agree - I doubt any R can win... ever again. Trump will never be president again. He's a democrat party asset. The R party would be wise to go out in a blaze of glory and at least choose the person who is younger and better.... and give it one final go. Trump will pee on it.
Biden is a drooling crook.
Trump is a dick-stepping bubble gum card uninspiring billionaire - who blew it and now sounds like a used car salesman with a late invitation to the party. (he's just now noticed pink hair - and he's hopping mad)
are words nobody wants to hear but probably will
Gavin "Green" Newsom
Kamala "take a knee" Harris
All of Pelosi's Puppets
Schiff's Shiv
Biden is but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets to sustain Obama's legacy
Two words.. Grover Cleveland.
Arrow's theorem that you can't build an election scheme that satisfies all the fairness criteria that you'd want applies even in the simple case where only two candidates are considered, Biden and Trump. Most people don't want either. I want Trump myself.
Joe Smith said...
...is this the best we've got?
Of course not.
Brady/Gronk 2024
People remember how good things were from 2017 until the pandemic caused by Fauci's funded virus research; and people see that they are losing ground to massive inflation, that the idiots in charge today are flirting with WWIII and Armageddon, that their sons and daughters are being encouraged to cut off their balls and breasts, and they can see that Joe Biden probably shits his pants twice a day without knowing anything about it.
However, none of it matters now- the Democrats control the voting systems, and they don't intend to lose another Presidential election.
"I'll be the first to say it; is this the best we've got?"
I suspect the best we've got don't want to have anything to do with politics. Depressing what it's devolved to.
36% of the US voting population drank the Kool-Aid and asked for seconds.
Unnecessary? What the hell! It’s imaginary.
I think it's worth reminding both sides frequentpy about how they are sleepwalking to disaster.
A Trump/Biden rematch is the election we deserve.
I will note that this what you get when people start distrusting elections. I don't know if there was enough fraud to throw 2020 (I suspect, but can't prove it), but the behavior of the GOP establishment and the Dems towards any questioning of the results only served to bring about this point. Ditto the RUSSIAN COLLUSION! hysteria pushed for now six years.
Trump has every reason to run again, as a victory would be vindication for him in the face of six years of lies, hysteria, and the refusal by an entire political establishment to actually acknowledge that Trump's win was legitimate.
If Biden steps aside and Trump runs, it will be seen as a sign of weakness. Trump absolutely will claim that Biden was scared to face him again. If Trump wins, then Biden abandoned the country to the Orange Monster. If Trump loses, Biden will be quickly forgotten, if not outright blamed by a Newsom administration for everything wrong.
'The "best" for what, precisely?'
President.
Kind of thought it was obvious.
It's depressing...
Yes. I’m voting for Trump in 2024.
In Perscription Murder Columbia says to a suspect who thought he had been taken off the case, “It’s true that somebody tried to pull a few strings. But my superior - he doesn’t like that. He gets to thinking. So he said to me, he said, ‘Lieutenant Columbia, you must be touching a sore spot. So you keep right on trying.’ He’s very intelligent, my superior.”
Well the Deep State pulled more than a few strings - the Russian Collusion Hoax, the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop, the collusion between the FBI, Twitter, Facebook. All of these point to the fact that Trump’s Presidency touched a sore spot - to say the least. And like Columbo’s superior, we need to re-elect Trump.
"The Bulwark engaged Whit Ayers' firm, North Star Opinion research, looking specifically at Republicans."
Sounds like they also engaged Life-Long Republican Chuckles the Flying Dog. Or maybe there's no "F". How much are they paying you for this cycle, Chuckles?
I think it's worth reminding both sides frequentpy about how they are sleepwalking to disaster.
Oh, it's not sleepwalking. The problem is that neither side wants the pain of actual change in order to win. The GOP is controlled by neonconservatives who believe that it's still 2004, and that they can run on killing terrorists and cutting taxes, and the security moms will flock to vote GOP.
That right there is the completely fucked position that Trump-era Republicans find themselves in 2023-24.
Why is Chuck back with his TDS ? The ABC poll shows that the resistance to Trump is mostly among the "country club" set who have largely shifted left. Trump added the blue collar folks and "Reagan Democrats" that the Chucks of the world despise. They prefer to lose like gentlemen than win with those deplorable voters.
If those were the choices and the election were today, the poll suggests it could be close: Among all adults, 48 percent support Donald Trump and 44 percent are for Biden; it's a similar 48-45 percent among registered voters. The differences are within the poll's margin of sampling error.
Chuck, as usual, is full of shit. One reason why many stick with Trump is that he is the only one in politics now who can be trusted.
Serious Question: Are you better off, NOW? Then you were, four years ago?
Remember 2019? We weren't at war with either Russia, or China..
So many people were working, that they didn't have to skew statistics..
Our National Debt, was SMALLER than the GNP..
Joe Smith: "'The "best" for what, precisely?'
President.
Kind of thought it was obvious."
What kind of President? Pushing what types of policies?
I kind of thought that would be obvious.
HBTPFH: "Agree - I doubt any R can win... ever again. Trump will never be president again. He's a democrat party asset."
This continuing moronic "hot take".
The democraticals completely disagree with your dumb "hot take", which is why their every action speaks to the actual reality: the dems (and deep state abd GOPe) still view Trump as the ONLY existential threat to their power.
HBTPFH was the one proclaiming the dens would be working overtime to clear the field for Trump in 2024. In reality, they are doing everything possible to stop him.
A thinking person might ask themselves why that is.
I do think that we have a decent chance at a rematch. And I think the move of the Dems to put SC first is strong indicia that the Biden team is getting ready for him to run in 2024. First, that was where he broke through in 2020. And that was in good part due to Clyberne, who represents SC.
Just looking at the data in the graphic gave me a clear idea, but I think it helps to process it a bit: I did a total negativity score, as such.
(angry - enthusiastic) + (dissatisfied - satisfied) = The higher the number, the more dissatisfied people are with the prospect of the person becoming president.
Biden: (30-7) + (32-29) = 27
Trump: (36-17) + (20-26) = 13
People will be unhappy if either become president, but they're a little more than twice as unhappy if it's Biden, than if it's Trump.
Anal obsession with annal polling perchance to bray a handmade tale.
I'll be the first to say it; is this the best we've got?
Better than Kamala is a low bar, indeed.
If one party runs a 70+ YO, and the other someone under 60, the other wins going away.
Chuck: "It won't matter if he is indicted and scheduled for a criminal trial. He will claim that the indictment(s) are phony, and it will be all the more motivation to claim that he is the target of a political persecution."
Heavens! How could that awful orange man have possibly come to believe such a thing?
Michael K: Your Arizona Republican Party sure did away with all the RINO squishes! You showed us! You're all-MAGA now!
Now; update me on how Governor Kari Lake is doing. How about Senator Blake Masters? Attorney General Abe Hamadeh? Secretary of State Mark Finchem?
And all in a year where there had been talk of a "Red Wave"; where external factors were all favoring the outsider/insurgent/changemaking Republicans.
Nope; it was just a crushing. A crushing of Trumpism and all of the crazy fucked up insurrectionist and election denialist bullshit that you reside in. You argue that my lot "prefer to lose like gentlemen than win with those deplorable voters." I don't know about "deplorable voters." If voters are conservatives -- conservatives like Liz Cheney -- then we will have something pretty good to talk about. But setting aside "deplorable voters," I do know about "deplorable candidates." And Arizona had the nation's most deplorable lineup of statewide candidates I can think of. Followed closely, mind you, by my home state of Michigan, where Trumpists took over every lever of the MI GOP, and promptly lost majorities and offices that we mainstream Republicans had owned for about 40 years. TrumpWing candidates for every office in AZ, and almost every office in Michigan. And the Trumpists all got schlonged.
You go ahead and stick with Trump. I WANT you to do that. I WANT Trump to run. I want Trump to run, and to run everything around him -- you included -- off a cliff.
There is no voting in any numbers that will matter.
It is time for voters to stand up and say it. We have an illegitimate regime that is populated by 2 parties.
The Republican and the Democrat parties together are not supported by a majority of Citizens in this country.
Desantis is just another globalist shill. He is fighting the stupid cultural bullshit wars the parties are floating out there to distract us. He would get all of the stupid blue blood cruise ship republicans all wee weed up
A Desantis administration would ban purple hair and ship all of our jobs overseas for Peter Griffin and his other globalist donors. Desantis would continue to grind down the middle and working class like the Clintons and Bushes and Obamas before him.
The Republican Trump haters just don't understand what was different about the Trump administration and why he was the best president for Americans since Coolidge or really Lincoln.
boatbuilder said...
Chuck: "It won't matter if he is indicted and scheduled for a criminal trial. He will claim that the indictment(s) are phony, and it will be all the more motivation to claim that he is the target of a political persecution."
Heavens! How could that awful orange man have possibly come to believe such a thing?
Could it be, because his personal attorney, his company's CFO, his 2016 campaign manager, his longtime close personal political advisor, his more-recent personal political advisor, his original choice as National Security Advisor, and too many others to list, but including his own eponymous privately-held company, have all been found guilty in federal and/or state courts?
I would love see trump win next time. Since the democrats stole the last one.
I am sure the Joint Chiefs of Staff really are 'the acting president'... hence the slow response to the Chinese balloon. Trump would have ordered it shot down on the waters edge of Alaska.. presuming the Chinese even had the guts to send it.
Biden has zero chance of ANY 2nd term. And if he keeps f*cking it up... might even get some Democrats to vote for impeachment or 25th Amendment.
Trump... it's a crapshot. He does have a chance of a 2nd Term, but then so does DeSantis.
Paul said...
I am sure the Joint Chiefs of Staff really are 'the acting president'... hence the slow response to the Chinese balloon. Trump would have ordered it shot down on the waters edge of Alaska.. presuming the Chinese even had the guts to send it.
Biden has zero chance of ANY 2nd term. And if he keeps f*cking it up... might even get some Democrats to vote for impeachment or 25th Amendment.
I'm not certain JCS are the people pulling the strings behind the curtain. But Biden is certainly doing what he's told, and when he speaks, what he says is often at odds with what just happened or totally nonsensical. General Milley overrode him on shooting down the balloon? WTF?! If that's the case, why is General Milley still General Milley? POTUS can fire, at once, any commissioned officer. Doesn't need a review from anyone- they all, each and every one, serve at the pleasure of POTUS.
Can you even imagine any other POTUS saying out lous a general overrode his orders?
The problem with civil service is that THEY CAN'T BE FIRED! They can lie, obfucate, slow down any presidential order, and nothing can be done. Every single government employee, including me as I operate boilers, should be serving at the pleasure of POTUS. Maybe he should be required to ensure new employees are actually qualified to do the job (Unqualified boiler operators are dangerous) but POTUS should be free to fire any of them and look for, or have his other subordinates, look for a replacement. Every single FBI agent involved in Crossfire Hurricane should have become unemployed.
Achilles, you really do beclown yourself with your Desantis hatred. He ain’t the bad guy dude.
Chuck does define the problem for his country-clubbers.
The Kochs know they are astroturfers, not grassroots. They used to send buttondowned AFP thugs to try to shut down my speeches because I told conservatives the truth about their contempt for them and the deceitful strategies they employed to claim to speak for them. They want three things that will existentially destroy America: fully open borders, full legalization of all drugs, and releasing all criminals. So do the country-club GOPers, perhaps including Chuck. Why? It's no skin off their collective asses. They think.
Because the Kochs don't have a real grassroots movement, the more they attack Trump and work openly with Soros on these three goals, the stronger Trump's polling will become. That's precisely what happened in 2016. By 2020, the Kochs focussed on taking over conservative (Conservative Inc.) think tanks, publications, and commentators like Erick Erickson. Too many of us were on to them to just repeat 2016. That strategy worked better, but now it too has been exposed.
It's up to Trump to keep his distance from them, which he didn't do once in the White House, where his submission to the Kochs' crime agenda and abandonment of the immigration issue resulted in chaos and destruction in the streets. If he attacks the Kochs now, it will raise his numbers and increase the exodus from the GOP. If he caves, he loses, but many people are wary to support any other GOP candidate who gets on his or her knees behind the Koch door at Club for Growth. It's a real pickle for the GOP establishment, which hates Trump too but needs his voters and the Koch machine.
In comparison, all the DNC has to do is legalize illegal immigrants and give away other people's money. Unfortunately for all of us, it's two paths to the same perdition.
We have better. DeSantis, Haley, Gabbard. The only one I see with a real shot at either party's nomination is DeSantis.
"Could it be, because his personal attorney, his company's CFO, his 2016 campaign manager, his longtime close personal political advisor, his more-recent personal political advisor, his original choice as National Security Advisor, and too many others to list, but including his own eponymous privately-held company, have all been found guilty in federal and/or state courts?"
I think you prove my point. All of those people were targeted and prosecuted because they were associated with Trump. None of them were found guilty of any crimes in which Trump was a party.
And I think that even you can agree that the Bannon thing was pure political theater.
Do you think it is right that people are targeted and prosecuted specifically because of their association with a particular political figure?
Can anyone explain why Chuck was let out of blog jail? What changed? He appears to still be the same abrasive tool he was when he was put out to pasture.
But the question really should be: "Why is this the best we've got?" But nobody's asking that question.
As for all the derangees, their anger is their problem to manage, not everybody else's. At least those displeased with Biden can articulate the reasons why they object to prolonging his reign and point to real things that back it up.
donald: "Achilles, you really do beclown yourself with your Desantis hatred. He ain’t the bad guy dude"
Why dont you just point out where achilles is wrong in your opinion?
Because nothing I've read by Achilles appears incorrect.
"Do you think it is right that people are targeted and prosecuted specifically because of their association with a particular political figure?"
Of course Chuck believes this is ok. Seriously, Boatbuilder, I hope that was a rhetorical question.
It was.
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