"... in a deposition at Mar-a-Lago last year, potentially undermining one of the common defenses he has used to deny an attack. Trump... has repeatedly said Carroll is not his 'type'.... 'That’s Marla, yeah. That’s my wife,' Trump said...."
Here's the photo:
That sure does look like Marla Maples!
I think Trump should also be in trouble — not legally, personally — for saying "That’s my wife" when he meant Marla. But sometimes people use the present tense when they're speaking of the past. I'd be mildly irked if I were Melania, but I'm sure Trump knows how to say It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
IN THE COMMENTS: jaydub asks:
When Trump said she was "not his type," why does the Wapoo automatically assume he's talking about her appearance rather than her character, personality or other trait? Isn't that sexist?
He's accused of making a sudden, quick attack, so the deeper qualities of a woman's attractiveness are highly unlikely to matter. And this is a civil case, where the plaintiff only needs to show that the greater weight of the evidence supports her version of the story. Trump's statement that she was not his type is evidence. The words must be interpreted but we don't need certainty about what the words mean. They will be weighed in context with all the other evidence.
But you need to know that Trump engaged in what has been a longstanding approach to casting doubts on claims of rape — declaring that the woman was not worth having sex with. It's often put in the very crude form: Who would want to fuck you? Trump's statement was not that cruel. It leaves open the possibility that there are others who might want to have sex with her, but it's the same category of argument, and the whole category has a long history and is well-known to people who are educated on the subject of rape and the subordination of women.
The sexism question I see is whether Trump is a sexist. His saying she's not my type — in response to a rape allegation — is evidence of sexism. That means it has some probative value. It belongs in the set of things we look at to decide if he's a sexist or — to put it more aptly, because practically everyone is at least a bit of a sexist — to decide how much of a sexist he is.
ADDED: Looking at the full-frame version of the photograph — here, at The Daily Mail — I can see that Ivana Trump is also there, so the "That's my wife" in "That’s Marla, yeah. That’s my wife" may refer Ivana. That's Trump with his back to the camera on the left.
Posts
72 comments:
Carroll is not his 'type'
Type goes well beyond physical appearance.
I'd be mildly irked if I were Melania
If you’re going to be the third you should know what you’re signing up for…
Haven’t we all made the same mistake?
When Trump said she was "not his type," why does the Wapoo automatically assume he's talking about her appearance rather than her character, personality or other trait? Isn't that sexist?
I really want to move on from Trump, but these a-holes are going to force me to vote for him again.
It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
That only works for Democrats, you racist.
The good news is that he saw someone who looked like his wife, and wanted to have sex with her. Compare that to say...Bill Clinton.
My wife gave her elderly mother a digital photo frame for Christmas, and loaded it up with photos of the grandchildren, of us, of her, etc. There is a very nice somewhat recent photo of my wife. Her mother initially said "who is that woman?" and insists that it does not look at all like her own daughter (It does, I assure you).
I have seen old photos of gatherings of people and spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out if the person in the upper left was me or someone else.
Photos are not necessarily accurate representations of what they depict.
If they were, there would be no art to good photography.
"Is" even has diverse explicit uses, let alone subtle ones. Identity vs predication, not even counting grammatical ones like the present participle where it serves as an operator carrying tense without its own meaning.
When Trump said she was "not his type," why does the Wapoo automatically assume he's talking about her appearance rather than her character, personality or other trait? Isn't that sexist?
Because maybe we no longer has any disbelief left to suspend. I don't ever remember Trump saying "grab 'em by the the pussy but only if she has a winning personality." 🤣😂🤣
Live like a dog, people will rightfully assume that you are a dog.
"Ooooohhhh boo hoo hoo, evweone is being mean to Twump." Just 🛑!
Do we really believe Melania is riddled with insecurities about Trump and the women he slept with?
Amazing to watch the Left, and feminists in particular, turn a blind eye to Clinton (the real "IS" is) and the other Epstein Island visitors. Somehow they can reconcile and ignore all that, while pushing forward with "We just no Trump didn't use his penis properly".
Bill Clinton was white trash who trolled the vulnerable for his satisfaction. Trump was banging playboy centerfolds. Sorry. There's a difference.
What' with women and the public hand wringing about the regret of some famous person they fucked twenty years ago? You get more attention when you call it assault twenty years later.
I remember seeing Oprah interview Madonna. They were talking about how messed up Dennis Rodman was, and how awful he was and blah, blah, blah... Pius Madonna was wringing her hands until FINALLY Oprah asked the right question...
"But what was it about him that got you to sleep with him"?
And with that question you knew right there Dennis Rodman was more sane than Madonna.
Jeffrey Epstein is still dead.... and not talking. Clinton flew on Lolita express 26 times.
E Jean sure looks happy to be in the company of Trump
In that photo Ms. Carroll looks pretty thrilled to be around Donald Trump.
Gullible Althouse believes E. Jean Carroll, because of course she does. Because Trump. And those eeeevil Republicans.
Democracy Dies in Darkness!
Clinton ran into some trouble with Paula Jones, but I don't recall any of the rape allegations against him being followed up with this amount of zeal and publicity. The rape allegations against Clinton were far more credible than those against Trump and Kavanaugh. If you aren't a true believer such coverage is more illustrative of the WaPo's bias than of Trump's lack of character....I vaguely recall that woman who claimed Biden tried to molest her. I can't remember her name. She didn't become a celebrity or get offered a teaching position at a university. We don't know her position on important feminist issues.
The man who mistook his accuser for his ex wife.
Not as sexy as “the man who mistook his wife for a hat”.
Smiling and appearing to be happy to be around a man in a public setting is not evidence that a woman is eager to be raped by that man. It could be evidence that the woman is happy and relaxed because she believes he is not the kind of man who would assault her. A mistake too often made unfortunately.
Marla Maples was a contestant on the Dancing With the Stars (DWTS) season that began in March 2016. For sure, she was asked to participate because her former husband Donald Trump was running for President.
Maples danced quite well, but she was eliminated already in the third round. For sure, many viewers voted against her as a political statement against Trump.
Here is a video of Maples' last dance
=======
In the 2010 season of DWTS, the contestants included Bristol Palin (the daughter of Sarah Palin) and Jennifer Grey (the star of the movie Dirty Dancing). Grey wrote about her DWTS experience in her autobiography Out of the Corner.
Grey thought that many viewers voted for Bristol Palin for political reasons. Palin was not eliminated until the tenth round, finishing in third place. Thus, Palin was one of Grey's major competitors.
Here is Palin's final dance
Grey won the DWTS competition.
Here is Grey's dance that knocked Palin out of the competition
Does E Jean have any proof?
Surveillance video?
A police report?
Again - tho - Trump says stupid goofy stuff.
WaPo can't find news as this world is circling the drain? These snippets sound like they're coming from a sandbox at Kiddie Academy.
I don't think she looks much like Marla Maples, but she's the same type: blond, big smile, etc.
"Do we really believe Melania is riddled with insecurities about Trump and the women he slept with?"
I don't. I assume Melania is in it for strictly practical reasons. If she ever loved the Don--a big IF--that small flame of feeling has surely long flickered out.
Are we judging women by looks? I couldn’t pick E. Jean Carroll out in a crowd of two, but her opinions and actions tell me she’s not my type.
I don't believe it actually happened, but if it did it's significant that it only became rape or assault after Trump became president.
Half the presidents of my lifetime could have said what Trump said on the Billy Bush tape. A few of them might actually have done what Trump said he could get away with doing.
"When Trump said she was "not his type," why does the Wapoo automatically assume he's talking about her appearance rather than her character, personality or other trait? Isn't that sexist?"
I answered the question on the front page.
I don't ever remember Trump saying "grab 'em by the the pussy but only if she has a winning personality
Perhaps because he never said that.
What he did say was:
"when you are a celebrity they let you grab em by the pussy... "
Key part" they let you" actually they not only let you, they grab your hand and shove it in their pants. Or throw their panties and hotel hey on stage, or blow all 5 of you at once (Trudeau /rolling stones)
I don't think anyone has ever credibly accused him of grabbing them by the pussy, have they?
Stop spreading disinformation.
John Henry
The AI computer would not have made that mistake.
"Does E Jean have any proof?"
Of her defamation claim? It's quite clear that Trump stated that she was a liar to say that he raped her. Why isn't he suing her for defamation? He tried to counterclaim, but only after waiting too long, and he couldn't get permission because it was at that point viewed as a delay tactic.
As for whether the statement is true and she really did lie in saying that he raped her, of course there is evidence. You seem to be under the misimpression that witness testimony isn't evidence.
Boat builder,
There is a picture in a school catalog in the history section of a couple of 7-8 year old boys playing. Probably '56 or so.
I think one is me. Wife and daughter agree. Son disagrees. I have no way of knowing for sure.
John Henry
I don't believe anything the WaPo publishes about Trump. I'd have to see the tape or read the transcript before I'd reach a conclusion on anything. The WaPo needs to be factchecked and verified before anything it writes can be believed. WaPo= DNC daily news. Its anti-Trump all the time. 24/7/365.
As for the defamation suit, she's just a dishonest bitch out for a paycheck. Hope she loses.
"The sexism question I see is whether Trump is a sexist. His saying she's not my type — in response to a rape allegation — is evidence of sexism."
I wouldn't argue that he is not a sexist, but how is this statement evidence of sexism?
His saying she's not my type — in response to a rape allegation — is evidence of sexism. That means it has some probative value
One more instance where if he just kept his stupid mouth shut, he would have fewer legal issues. The whole comment was stupid. What's the implication? If she was his type then maybe he would have assaulted her? The only appropriate response is: "Nope. I never did that because I do not treat women that way ever."
But, because he is an undisciplined buffoon he created an evidentiary issue that didn't need to exist. And, now he doesn't look credible.
To flip the old trope back on Trump: he is asking for it. Why should I feel sorry for that tool?
As for whether the statement is true and she really did lie in saying that he raped her, of course there is evidence. You seem to be under the misimpression that witness testimony isn't evidence.
But, it's "his word against hers!!!"
All the more reason to not make it seem like "his word" is trash. 🤦♂️
How can we know what’s sexist when we don’t even know what sex is anymore?
Is there aby credible evidence that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broderick, Ann? Is there any credible evidence that Joe Biden molested his daughter in the shower? Why don't these claims interest you or the Washington Post. I am so tired of biased phonies pretending to be open-minded.
Would someone please explain what actually happened between DT and E Jean Carroll?
That's one hell of a trick. Publishing a photo that has his wife cropped out and then claiming when shown said photo that he identifies the woman as his wife. Why does anyone believe anything that is published in the Washington Post when it relates to Donald Trump? For that matter why does anyone believe anything published by the Post, regardless of the topic?
"Democracy Dies in Darkness!"
Well, no. In America, democracy dies--nay, is murdered--right out in the open.
Does E. Jean Carroll's story of the assault still match up with that episode of Law and Order: SVU?
I vaguely recall that woman who claimed Biden tried to molest her. I can't remember her name.
@William, her name is Tara Reade, and according to her allegations Joe Biden didn’t merely try to molest her; her claim is that he actually put his hand inside her clothing, groped her vulva, and digitally penetrated her vagina. The Times, the legal system, feminists, no one seems to care very much. The prevailing opinion seems seems to be along the lines of what did she expect, being pretty and working for a Democrat senator. In other words, in the opinion of Democrats and feminists, she had to have been asking for it.
"Why don't these claims interest you..."
You just defamed me!
Why didn't you check the archive here before making the assumption that these claims don't interest me? It would be extremely easily to do. You need to 1. Apologize for your cheap lazy insult to me and 2. Check the archive as you should have done before speaking and 3. Come back and tell us what you found?
Don't you know this blog reacts to what's in the news on a particular day, so talking about one thing doesn't mean have no interest in every other thing!
Your assumption is so pathetic and irritating. I go to a lot of effort keeping track of daily happenings for 19+ years and you just assume I haven't covered things that were in the news on other days. Absolutely pathetic!
"Is there aby credible evidence that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broderick, Ann? "
And when you do check the archive, spell the woman's name correctly. It will make a difference.
If you actually care about her, why don't you know her name? Or at least check the spelling before writing about her? Is she just a thing to use for partisan gain? So annoying!
A partial face, black and white, flash photo proves nothing. When guys talk about type, the face is seldom the topic.
I guess I'd like to see the actual transcript. Lawyers aren't always straightforward when asking questions (on purpose).
I'm just not seeing how you can give any credibility to the woman's story.
The timing, the details, the woman herself - it's so obviously a tall tale - how can a it be true?
His saying she's not my type — in response to a rape allegation — is evidence of sexism. That means it has some probative value
D.D. Driver: "One more instance where if he just kept his stupid mouth shut, he would have fewer legal issues."
LOL
Sure. If he just kept quiet that would keep the democratical/deep state/Lawfare dogs at bay.
Keep telling yourself that.
"A partial face, black and white, flash photo proves nothing. When guys talk about type, the face is seldom the topic"
"Can you tell the jury how you know you that Ms. Carroll was not one of the women you 'grabbed by the pussy'?"
"Yes. It's because her boobs were too small for me to be interested."
You think that is a good argument?! 😬
Dopey Driver:
But, because he is an undisciplined buffoon he created an evidentiary issue that didn't need to exist. And, now he doesn't look credible.
To flip the old trope back on Trump: he is asking for it. Why should I feel sorry for that tool?
A 30 year old accusation is just fine with the Dope. A comment made as an aside to a ridiculous claim is treated as "evidence" by the Dope.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"Democracy Dies in Darkness!"
Well, no. In America, democracy dies--nay, is murdered--right out in the open.
Cook gives us the lesson he learned at Joseph Stalin U on American democracy.
Democracy flourishes in darkness, with a dictatorial flair.
Demos-cracy is aborted at the Twilight Fringe as a wicked solution to a hard problem: keep women affordable, available, and taxable, and the "burden" of evidence Planned in darkness.
Down the rabbit hole, it is Her Choice: off with her head!
"Democracy Dies in Darkness!"
This is why we have a republican form of government under a constitution that limits authoritarian progress, ethics, equity ("="), and inclusion in favor of principals, principles, reconciliation, and equality.
The democraticals had no choice but to launch the russia russia russia collusion hoax, the hoax dossier hoax, the ukraine phone call sham-peachment hoax, etc etc etc.
Trump simply won't stop talking so the democraticals were forced, against every internal instinct, to put in motion a continuous 4 year coup effort with hoaxed up/set ups against everyone associated with Trump, his admin and his family.
I guess that's why the democraticals accused Kavanaugh of mass gang rapes for years and years....Kavanaugh too has a tendency to talk like a normal human being.
So there you have it republicans/conservatives/libertarians. If you don't want the fully weaponized deep state/dem complex to subvert justice and set you up, you simply have to remain very, very, very, very quiet. At all times.
This message brought to you by the Political/Legal Analyst "stylings" of one D. D. Driver.
Hey, you know who else wouldn't just shut up? Abraham Lincoln.
Jake: "I guess I'd like to see the actual transcript."
What for? We already have the corrupted legacy media, the democrat/deep state complex and DD Driver explaining how Trump is guilty.
'nuff said I guess.
A 30 year old accusation is just fine with the Dope. A comment made as an aside to a ridiculous claim is treated as "evidence" by the Dope.
I bet you think the 30-year allegations against Biden and Clinton are "just fine," doncha?
The underlying political affiliation is irrelevant to me. I look at each one independently. Some 30-year allegations are true. I believe the allegations against Clinton because he has lived his whole life like a piece of garbage. I disbelieve the Kavanaugh accusers. I believe the 30-year-old allegations against Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein. I believe that Joe Biden showered with his daughters which is creepy and weird.
Is it a giant stretch for me to believe that someone wo brags about a free pass to "grab 'em by the pussy because when you are famous they let you do it," might have grabbed a pussy that didn't want to be grabbed? Not much of a stretch. I'll trust the jury on this one. But, the allegations against Trump are at least as credible as they Tara Reade allegations. And, only a partisan nitwit could disagree.
I've seen footage of both Marla and Jean Carroll, and other than having blonde hair and big smiles I don't think that they are particularly similar in face or in body.
Yes, to deny a rape accusation based on whether the accused man would normally find that particular woman physically attractive is probably sexist and also an inaccurate judgment as to what motivates most rapists. But then again I don't believe that ALL rape is strictly about power and not about sex so it could be relevant whether or not an accused man is otherwise able to be attracted to a certain type.
I am humbled that the learned professor would take my two, one sentence rhetorical questions for the Wapoo article's author, move them to original paragraph and then answer them for the author in such detail. That said, I would prefer that my questions be placed in quotation marks after their movement so that it is clear that I am not the one who is mind reading the author in the subsequent comments. Also, without the quotes on my first rhetorical question, the second appears to be asking if my first question was sexist rather than me asking if the author's comments were sexist. I think that was clear before the questions were moved. Just constructive criticism since I don't disagree with the professor's analysis.
Ann Althouse said...
"Why don't these claims interest you..."
You just defamed me!
**************
She defamed you by asking a question?
SNORT
And...what's your measure of damages?
And....if the "witness testimony" you allude to comes solely from the accuser herself as the basis for her case, isn't that an instance of pure hearsay and thus NOT admissible ?
Has anyone else on Carroll's accuser's side given corroborating testimony?
The woman in that photo is beaming at Trump.
I don't ever remember Trump saying "grab 'em by the the pussy ...
Know why you don't remember? Because he never said it.
If Trump is as awful as people like you think he is, you wouldn't have to make up shit and/or take things out of context to make him look bad.
“ And....if the "witness testimony" you allude to comes solely from the accuser herself as the basis for her case, isn't that an instance of pure hearsay and thus NOT admissible ?”
Not if she’s a witness at trial. Hearsay is a statement made outside of the trial that can’t be tested through cross-examination.
He's the "grab 'em by the pussy" for the denialists. The whole video is worth a watch. Note how he brags "he doesn't even ask" before making out with women.
https://youtu.be/PVKukVC_S5g
I had thought the case would settle since slander sometimes covered by insurance. The claim allowed for by the new NY statute would not be covered but that should not prevent settlement that includes it.
I wish they would focus on his daughter's accusation he showered with her.
D.D. Driver: "He's the "grab 'em by the pussy" for the denialists. The whole video is worth a watch. Note how he brags "he doesn't even ask" before making out with women."
Lets see if I've got this straight: this video, in your mind, is "evidence" of some sort that Donald Trump entered a well known and crowded department store in NYC in broad daylight and raped a woman in a dressing room and then walked out with no one hearing this occur nor the woman filing a police report.
Do I have that right?
Hey, while you're at it, why not just toss the russia collusion charge back into this as well?
Drago,
That was when things discreetly moved to the bedroom furnishings department.
Back then in NYC, it was fairly common for a couple to "test piss" on a prospective mattress model.
This is much adieu about nothing
There is no debate, eye witness testimony is inaccurate.
Memories from long ago? They are not reality. They are ALL laced with fiction created in our mind, influenced by all our past histories,desires, fears, fantasies, etc.
"she's not my type" is such a throw away line, no serious person can assign a value to it.
Our host has defended the visual comparison of Trump's wife and the claimant. But other things enter into type. Like a store clerk is not my type. Wearing flats, makeup choices, to much/little jewelry. Along with imperceptibles that you cant identify/quantify.
Way to undefinable for me on a jury to even consider.
The sad truth is that E. Jean Carroll is no man's type. I sure wouldn't want that debated in a courtroom.
Trump was/is long married to two brilliant, dominating, entrepreneurial, self-assured, self-made, Eastern European ex-models and one ditzy Georgia Peach, whom he married only after she became pregnant and to whom he was married when the alleged incident occurred. The marriage was relatively brief, unhappy, and conducted long-distance. Incidentally, Maples was accused around the same time of forcing herself on a lifeguard in a pool changing room. Maybe that's where Miss Carroll got her tale.
I'd use that whole enchilada as an appropriately shallow and droll retort in this zipless lawsuit by a former Elle columnist whose job was literally to encourage liberated women to have sex with random men. And how repulsive of her to try to use other, actually raped women by painting herself as their moral and courageous defender. That's just grotesque.
Trump even hosted his ex-wife's Ivana's fourth marriage. I think that makes her his type.
Althouse, now that we have seen the transcript of Trump's deposition, there really is no explaining:
a) Trump's error in photo-identification;
b) The effectiveness of Plaintiff counsel's technique in using the photos, or;
c) Alina Habba's obvious and frantic coaching of her client, which can (and I suspect will) be usable at trial. Generally, trial judges (together with counsel) cooperatively edit depositions before playing to a jury, and generally objections are edited out. But this one, I suspect, will be left in for the jury to see Habba coaching Trump. And the consideration of that issue will come on top of the recent Sanctions ruling against Trump and Habba in the Florida case with Judge Middlebrooks.
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