The Jewish newspaper Forward explains.
We watched the Netflix show last night, and I didn't really see the point of making it a Jewish joke (other than I know that's a format for jokes, a format that has been out of favor in the U.S. for a long time):
“Two Jewish guys from Odesa meet up,” Zelenskyy said... One Jew asks the other about “the situation,” and the other tells him that Russia is fighting NATO. Things are going badly for Russia. 70,000 dead Russian soldiers, depleted missile supplies, damaged equipment.
“What about NATO?” the Jew seeking news asks.
“‘What about NATO? NATO hasn’t even arrived yet!’”
A funny attack on the Russians, but why were the 2 Ukrainian men Jewish?
When CNN’s Jake Tapper paid a visit to Zelenskyy during Passover, the journalist’s attempt to draw a parallel to the holiday and the Ukrainian fight for freedom out of the president fell flatter than the bread of affliction. (Zelenskyy also seemed indifferent to Tapper’s gift of matzah — probably because he needed munitions more than an afikoman.)...
Both Tapper and Zelenskyy are Jewish.
The American press seems to make more of Zelenskyy’s Jewishness than he does. Throughout the war, perhaps his most direct invocation of his Jewish background has been in his plea to the Knesset, where he controversially compared Russian plans for Ukraine to the “final solution.”
But if one looks back at his comedy career, which we only glimpse in Letterman’s special, we are able to see a more Jewish side of Zelenskyy, who, growing up in the Soviet era, had fewer opportunities to express that identity. Humor, it seems, is where he connects to Jewishness, and, given that it shaped his ultimate trajectory from an actor playing the president to the actual head of state, it is in no way superficial.
Zelenskyy may not have had a bar mitzvah, but he did pretend to play “Hava Nagila” on the piano with his testicles.
Wait! What? Did that happen? Why was I not informed? Okay. Wow:
Back to the explanation of why he made a Jewish joke in his interview with Letterman:
The gravity of his current position may not allow for such displays...
That "display" happened before he became president.
... but it’s telling that, when offering a joke, Zelenskyy decided to make it a Jewish one.... Couldn’t it just have easily been two nondescript Odesans? Or Kyivans?
Letterman himself opined:
“I love the universality of that joke,” Letterman said. “It can’t just be a guy walks in. It’s got to be the Jewish guy. It’s a priest, it’s a rabbi. It’s a Buddhist, you know, walk into a bar. It’s just like, yeah, why not?”
But the writer at Forward, PJ Grisar, says it meant something specifically Jewish:
The spirit of the joke — the delay of a vital piece of information, the punch-up jab at NATO, the sense that the speakers are underdogs left to fight their war alone and somehow winning anyway — means more when coded as Jewish.
In fact, given the context, it’s maybe more Jewish than it is funny.
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73 comments:
It's not a 'joke' -- merely political commentary in joke form. It's neither funny nor surprising in any way. It has nothing to do with Jews either.
This is either a small publication trying to fill space in a new way, or a politician (Zelenskyy) trying to draw as much attention to funding and combat support as possible.
For a while I was watching quite a bit of Seinfeld's "Cars" videos, and then interviews by Norm Macdonald and others. Seinfeld has said that as a general rule he doesn't like Jewish jokes, but then he offers some. A waiter serving a table at which all guests are Jews. "Is anything satisfactory?" And then variations of the same joke. A gentile businessman has promised his mother he will go to her house for dinner on a specific evening. The day becomes extremely busy; eventually, rather late in the day, it becomes clear he has to stay at the office. He calls his mother to cancel and explain. "That's fine," she says. "I understand." Two gentile businessmen meet in the street. "How's business?," asks one. "Fine," says the other. "I can't complain."
“‘What about NATO? NATO hasn’t even arrived yet!’”
The joke is on us. We are being baited into war. Of course, the regime is eager.
Wait… is the rumor that the war has enriched Zelensky also… #UnsaidThings?
A funny attack on the Russians, but why were the 2 Ukrainian men Jewish?
Remember, Putin is Hitler.
Isn't identity an element of humor? Specificity is part of the construction of humor. This is neither derogatory, nor celebratory of the Jewish people. Just on element used in the construction of the "joke".
The perpetually aggrieved looking for sustenance.
"but why were the 2 Ukrainian men Jewish?"
Ancient kingdom of Khazaria. There's a bit of 'history' there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
The Ukrainians actually aren't winning yet. Putin still holds more of Ukraine's land than before the war started. It's looking like the Winter War of 1940 all over again. Russia attacks incompetently, Finland fights back and the western world cheers Finland on and sends a little aid, Russia regroups and takes what it really wants from Finland which is the Karelian peninsula and the city of Vyborg.
Dave Chappelle and Kanye West must be right about certain American Jews in that they demand to be seen as the "good guys".
When I was a kid, I bought two joke books by Larry Wilde:
The Official Polish/Italian Joke Book, Pinnacle, 1973
The Official Jewish/Irish Joke Book, Pinnacle, 1974
They were basically variations of the same jokes based on stereotypes. One joke was unique that I still remember - linked to the Six Days War:
How many speeds does an Egyptian tank have?
6 - 5 speeds in reverse and 1 forward, in case the Israelis get behind them.
As I recall, you flipped the book over, so half was Polish jokes and the other side was Italian jokes.
I see from his Wikipedia entry, he published 51 additional joke books - tamping down the ethnic humor thereafter.
they call that a war? Whos the next guest host?
Don't tell that joke to Kanye.
Zelensky's wife is making good choices with our tax money we keep sending to them...Too bad our veterans and Seniors have to suffer.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/14/french-social-media-erupts-as-store-clerk-on-avenue-montaigne-reports-zelenskyys-wife-having-e40000-christmas-shopping-spree-in-paris/
Perhaps relevant: "Do you get the Seinfeld Jew joke?"
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Do-you-get-the-Seinfeld-Jew-joke-501305
The linked to video in the JPost article is offline. Here's another version, albeit with too many interstitial additions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wR8cVyrD48
Discussing "the situation" is often associated with Jews--especially in uncertain times (e.g., in Europe and America and especially in the 20th century). Characters in Jewish novels set in that time and place raise the topic of "the situation"--a very vague term that has a very specific and clear meaning to the Jewish discussants.
Two Jews discussing "the situation" is almost redundant. Of course they are--top of mind, as people are saying lately.
Obviously because Zelenskyy is a self hating Israelite Nazi simpatico in the mold of his benefactor and mentor George Soros.
Grifter working for publicity says what?
The propaganda continues.
FEMA doesn't have 25 million for Florida after a hurricane, but it has Billions to be laundered in Ukraine.
Jewish jokes, Armenian jokes, Hungarian aristocrat jokes were, from what I've heard, fairly common in the USSR. It was not a woke world.
"A funny attack on the Russians, but why were the 2 Ukrainian men Jewish? "
Eastern Europe humor. It's why my family left that region.
In the spirit of Jewish jokes, and the Christmas Season …
Darlene Love performing “Christmastime For The Jews” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzO1ghRKp4 a Phil Spector style recording from SNL’s TV Funhouse segment (Robert Smigel)
Also, there are other videos of Zelenskyy “playing” piano with his genitals … but I think it is intended that he is playing the piano with his penis not his testicles. For accuracy, consider fixing the tags.
Funny joke
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/14/french-social-media-erupts-as-store-clerk-on-avenue-montaigne-reports-zelenskyys-wife-having-e40000-christmas-shopping-spree-in-paris/
I'm not sure I like Mr. Zelensky's attitude. The Jews in Mr. Zelensky's talk like "bystanders" -- they are indifferent to the war or something like spectators to the terror. Or, maybe, Zelensky is saying that the Americans and Europeans are the "bystanders" because NATO has not yet "arrived."
First, our collective response has not been minimal. Second, Zelensky is a d*ckhead who is trying to start WWIII.
zelensky - what a disgusting Killer-clown. And woo-hoo he's Jewish. So what. Millions are without heat or electricity, millions of others have fled the country. Tens of Thousands of ukrainians are dead, and more will die and he's talking "Show biz" and cracking "Jokes".
Did Letterman bring up that he used to play the piano with his penis? Maybe the next time Zelensky orders the execution of an innoncent Russian author, he whip out his dick and play "THere's no business like show business".
During my lifetime I was first exposed to ethnic and then racial jokes in this order:
Italian (I had six Italian uncles by marriage and therefore many Irish/Italian cousins)
Jewish (My mother's best friend and maid of honor was Jewish and she, an Irish gal, grew up in a neighborhood of the Irish, the Italians and the Jews.
Polish (Sometimes during the 70s when the books started coming out as mentioned earlier)
Negro (I was first exposed to some funny racial jokes in FACT Magazine in the 60s; later on I came across nasty jokes in those same books)
Some of the jokes, based on stereotypes, were quite funny and some were interchangeable with other ethnic groups. The latter were mostly the "---- are dumb" jokes.
I don't like cruel and vicious jokes except those about politicians.
To stay on subject:
Why is a Jewish bride smiling? Because she knows she's given the last blowjob.
Two Jewish women are walking in the Mall when one spots her husband coming out of the florist shop with a bouquet of flowers. "Oy vey," she exclaims, "Now I'll have to spend tonight with my legs spread, up in the air!"
Her companion asks, "Why, don't you have a vase?"
I'll see myself out.
Marcus B. THEOLDMAN
I didn't know Zelensky was Jewish. That's interesting because Jews make up a tiny number of the population (less than 1%). He won a landslide victory too.
The press hasn't made a big deal of him being Jewish. They talk about him being a comedian. I guess he was their version of Jon Stewart, more or less.
Interesting to look at Jewish leaders around the world.
I don't trust Wikipedia's list, actually, because they're treating Judaism like it's an ethnicity, which is wrong, I think. Judaism is a religion.
So, for instance, David Cameron was not Jewish and Benjamin Disraeli wasn't Jewish, either.
Nonetheless, I'm happy to see that Jews have been elected to office in countries where they are a distinct minority of the population. I know the Soviet Union had a reputation for anti-Semitism. It's nice to know that most of the Ukrainian people have rejected that bigotry.
There's been criticism of Ukrainian armed forces for including Neo-Nazis. Telling a friendly Jewish joke, and reminding people that Zelensky is Jewish subtly undermines such criticism.
Funniest jokes are Norwegian “Ole” jokes.
Russia is fighting NATO.
THIS is the central thing.
NATO might not have shown up, yet.. But:
Its weapons
Its intelligence
Its money
All sure have. One thing, that we Should ALL be able to agree on; is This is a WAR between russia and NATO
russian knows it
ukraine knows it
MOST americans know it
When the sh*t hits the fan.. EVERYONE will act surprised! We DIDN'T See THAT coming!
It's just a comedy convention. If a priest, a minister, and a rabbi walk into a bar, the rabbi gets the punch line.
It's a NATO joke. really
Eastern Europe humor. It's why my family left that region.
Jews told Jewish jokes themselves. They invented many of them.
I do a web search for "Jewish jokes" and the Forward and the Jewish Journal and other Jewish sites turn up in the top 10, without any censoriousness in their presentation.
The explanation offered by the Forward is pathetic and full of empty cope. It's also total bullshit straining credulity.
The explanations above about reminding everyone that Pute-ler is Hitler is closer to the mark.
The other part of it is to reinforce the psyop's masterstroke of making the head of the Azov Nazi regime a nominal Jew so as to intimidate any western opposition to the operation (and to the transmission of endless billions to Ukraine). Notice how quickly we're told about Zelenskyyyyyy's great democratic beacon-ness but any mention of shutting down opposition or critical media, etc. is practically an act of treason - against the American government-media complex? That's the psyop, and just as Zelenskyyy's regime's failure to get anywhere is raising questions and the foregoing questions are becoming harder to dodge as things drag on (and even Europe is now questioning why they're sacrificing so much this winter and for what), we're reminded that he's on our side; the good guy.
None of which is to say that Putin isn't the bad guy, but let's ask the serious questions about why no one is allowed in polite/civilized company to ask the serious questions about what our objectives are, why we (not them) are over there, and why we are spending so much over there while our own at home are suffering, including millions of veterans of our own misguided first-person war adventures.
Framing it in "Pute-ler is bad for the Jews" terms is a great short-circuit of American discourse, dating back to at least Truman. Will be interesting to see if this singular conceit changes as American demographics continue to evolve and other groups/faiths rise, with their own epic narratives of past victimization.
gilbar: "THIS is the central thing.
NATO might not have shown up, yet.. But...."
Oh yes they have, and have been for quite some time.
Our "mercenaries"/contractors/"advisors" and actual British Special Forces have been boots on the ground just as predicted would occur when it became clear just how incompetent the Ukrainians were in executing on the ground.
Howard said...
Obviously because Zelenskyy is a self hating Israelite Nazi simpatico in the mold of his benefactor and mentor George Soros.
He is just another corrupt shithead sending his wife to France shopping with US taxpayer dollars.
You can't deal with the truth so you make stuff up and try to attribute that to people you disagree with.
You are just mediocre and typical.
A disproportionate number of the old Bolsheviks were Jewish. A disproportionate number of the early victims of Stalin's show trials were Jewish Bolsheviks. Stalin convicted three high ranking Jewish generals of being spies for the Gestapo!....There's a Jewish joke there somewhere but Jewish jokes don't work in a Stalinist setting.
The 3-part narrative joke is a peeve of mine. 90% of them can and should be reduced to a one or two line joke, because you can see the punchline a mile away.
The others require a truly skilled joke teller to properly relate it. These individuals are rarer than hens teeth.
Most people who tell narrative jokes - 99% of whom are white males - have little wit or true sense of humor themselves. Hence, they rely on these memorized story jokes. Ugh.
Actually, one of the justifications the Russians used to justify the invasion was to "de-Nazify" the leadership of the Ukraine. Making the two Ukrainians Jewish in the joke may be an implicit rebuttal of that charge.
The Jew-angle is a distraction so that the punch line blind-sides you and you laugh harder. It also lets the teller do the conversation in a Yiddish accent.
The comedic timing was horrific because of the language barrier; so, it barely sounded like a joke. But told correctly in your native language it'd be pretty funny. And if you were already sympathetic to Ukraine, it's a gut-buster.
Drago said...
gilbar: NATO might not have shown up, yet.. But...."
Oh yes they have, and have been for quite some time.
THAT is Why i said.. MIGHT NOT
The story about Zelenskyy's wife going shopping in Paris is the key fact. Our money is feeding this war and much more besides. I assume "The Big Guy" is getting his 10%.
Jewish jokes are out of favor?
Not among my friends and family. People who watched Blazing Saddles and laughd all the wat through. Who laughed harder when broadcast television edited out the farts from the fart scene. WHo (GASP!) showed our children the movie- and others- that by liberal standards are totally unaccepatable. That is, totally unacceptable for others, not themselves. There's always a difference between one's public and private behavior. For liberals, it's so large it approaches schizophrenia.
All Jewish jokes are essentially tragic,as Mel Brooks often reminded us.
However the battle is going on the ground, the Ukrainians are definitely winning the propaganda war. Zelensky deserves some credit for that. Putin deserves most of the credit though. This war is his fault.
Here's a joke for Zelensky to tell next time:
An old man comes into the confessional at the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church of Odessa.
He tells the priest, "Yesterday I was driving my captured Russian BTR-80 and I picked up 3 beautiful girls who had just completed basic training and were hitchhiking to the front to kill Russians. Father, by the time I dropped those girls off, I'd had sex with each of them 3 times."
The priest says, "Are you sorry for your sins?"
The old man says, "What sins?"
The priest says, "What sins?! What kind of a Ukrainian Greek Catholic are you?"
The old man says, "I'm Jewish."
The priest says, "Well then, why are you telling me this?"
The old man says, "I'm telling everybody."
As a Russian jew I can tell there are multiple reasons why the joke involves Jews:
1. Odessa is historically known a city with large Jewish population- during the Tsarist regime Jews were not allowed to live on large cities with the exception of Odessa.
2. Odessa humorist is by default in the ussr has been considered Jewish humor.
3. Many Famous Soviet comedians are from Odessa, and the greatest of them all, Michael Zhvanetskiy. Let’s also not forget the famous Russian writer Babel.
Do you know how copper wire was invented? Two Amish men fighting over a. Penny:
We’ll, that’s how I first heard the joke. Later it was told to me as two Jewish men fighting over a penny.
""Why Zelenskyy made a Jewish joke in his Netflix interview with David Letterman.""
Might as well say the quiet part out loud.
If you are a white male the only way you can use race/ethnicity to protect yourself from criticism is to be Jewish.
Women and other races get this for free.
Zelensky is a corrupt scumbag.
The Regime doesn't want people criticizing him.
This is how they use race and ethnicity as barriers to criticism. They cannot honestly defend what they are doing so now if you criticize Zelensky for being a corrupt shitbag you are antisemitic.
US Taxpayers just bought his wife a lot of nice French clothes.
Bob Boyd said...
Here's a joke for Zelensky to tell next time:
An old man comes into the confessional at the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church of Odessa...
There are so many versions of that joke, well, it's almost not funny...
Okay, so it's actually funnier knowing that.
There are very few original jokes, and very few ethnic jokes that aren't used on different ethnics in different places. IIRC, in one of Isaac, Asimov's humor books he pointed out that if you can't substitute the mythicl Ruthenian ethcnic group and still have the joke be funny, it's possibly a bigoted joke.
But then, What goes clop-clop-bang-bang-clop-clop? An Amish drive by shooting. Ruthenians just don't fit- they aren't known for driving horse powered vehicles. Elsewhere in the world there may be some other groupd that would fit- but not in the USA.
How do you drive a Ruthenian crazy? Put him in a round room and tell him there's a quarter in the corner. How many ethnic groupscan you use in that punchline? That joke, by the way, has been updated. When I was a kid- it was a penny in the corner. Inflation, you know? Gets to everything.
David Letterman is still alive? Huh.
"The story about Zelenskyy's wife going shopping in Paris is the key fact. Our money is feeding this war and much more besides. I assume "The Big Guy" is getting his 10%."
I wonder how much Zelensky and his cronies have stashed away in Swiss Bank Accounts. Probably a Hundred $Million$ or so. If Putin marches into Kiev, Zelensky will leave with a planeful of cash, and spent the rest of his life being toasted for his "Courage" by Hollywood and USA power elite. No doubt King Charles will make him a knight. Sir Zelensky.
The Kickbacks to the USA politicians are probably in the hundreds of millions. At least.
"The story about Zelenskyy's wife going shopping in Paris is the key fact. Our money is feeding this war and much more besides. I assume "The Big Guy" is getting his 10%."
I wonder how much Zelensky and his cronies have stashed away in Swiss Bank Accounts. Probably a Hundred $Million$ or so. If Putin marches into Kiev, Zelensky will leave with a planeful of cash, and spent the rest of his life being toasted for his "Courage" by Hollywood and USA power elite. No doubt King Charles will make him a knight. Sir Zelensky.
The Kickbacks to the USA politicians are probably in the hundreds of millions. At least.
Three Vampires walk into a Blood bank: a Priest, a Pastor, and a Rabbit. The receptionist nervously asks, "What do you guys want?" The Priest says, "Begorrah, and I'm here for a brimming pint of your best plasma!" The Pastor says, "I'd appreciate it if y'all could pour me a pitcher of platlets!" There was a silence until the receptionist turned to the third and said, "What about you?" Who replied, "Oy, I'm a Type-O"
Surprisingly I have to agree with Howard. That video of the Zelensky playing the piano with his genitals and ridiculing a famous Jewish tune was disgusting. It certainly wasn’t aimed for the entertainment of a Jewish crowd. Making fun with of Jews is a national pastime? It makes me think twice about the whole situation.
Perhaps you have to be Jewish to get it.
Yesterday, I ran across this clip of Jerry Seinfeld telling Norm MacDonald the "Greatest Jew Joke" that norm doesn't get (neither do I) but the other Jewish person on the stage finds hilarious. Jerry warns that Norm isn't going to get it. This joke, using Jewish rather than Gentile characters seems likely similarly targeted.
https://youtu.be/PV_C6zHifgk
The black one hundreds petluras banderas men all help liquidate the jews of odessa
Jews accounted for approximately 1/3 of Odessas' population pre WWII
(they weren't allowed to live in the northern cities of Moscow, Kiev etc.).
So yeah. Mostly gone, but never forgotten.
Godot: "they [Soviet-era Jews] weren't allowed to live in the northern cities of Moscow, Kiev etc."
That's nonsense. The Nazis murdered tens of thousands of Jews in Kiev alone, and many Jews would be surprised to learn that they weren't living in Moscow, Leningrad, etc.
Ruthenia is not mythical. Ruthenia was a big portion of eastern Ukraine, the part mostly occupied by Austria-Hungary before 1914.
Use instead, Slobbovia.
"they [Soviet-era Jews] weren't allowed to live in the northern cities of Moscow, Kiev etc."
Diversity as in DIE (Inequity, Exclusion), was not a central feature of the Soviet Union. It (e.g. albinophobia) was, as in America, practiced by the mainstream fringe. Jews held senior positions in the party throughout the nation.
Two Ukrainnians fight each other while the nominal Jew watches in jest.
Also, I suspect that Eastern Europeans have a subtly but extremely different sense of ethnicity and its place in society, and a completely different set of taboos around ethnic references.
Our western-trained sensibilities are offended by Zelensky gratuitously introducing race into what should be a color-blind narrative. "Why does he have to bring race into it?" we think. But I bet for the average Ukrainian, race has always been a big part of it. They'd probably feel a little weird if the joke was told without an ethnic reference of some kind.
That's funny JK. Because Jerry set it up so obviously, I eventually got it, but I had to think for a second.
If it is Odessa joke, it is Jewish joke. This is automatic, even reflexive. You don’t even have to think. People who know about Odessa will understand. Of course, US media types know nothing, so they speculate out of their asses. That is just another example how Americans have no idea what really goes on in Ukraine.
The joke doesn't work without some ethnic reference. It helps to visualize the kvetching.
I thought about that joke too by Jerry Seinfeld and it was funny because it had charm, it wasn't contempt or ridicule disguised as humor which seems to be Zelenzky's style of humor imo. For those who don't get it at all, the joke is that only gentiles would say "Great!" when asked about their business, while Jewish business men would typically say, "Not bad" or "Can't complain" or "Kinahora."
Here's more on this quirky superstition in Jewish culture: "'Kinahora': The Evil Eye, and The Irrational Aspects of Judaism" https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/collections/oral-histories/excerpts/woh-ex-0001921/kinahora-evil-eye-and-irrational-aspects-judaism or Kinahora
Narr (1:06):
You've said half of what I was going to say: Ruthenia is a real place. However, it has never been in "eastern Ukraine": it is now in the far western corner of Ukraine, next to Slovakia. In fact, it was one of the original four provinces that seceded from the collapsing Austro-Hungarian Empier to form Czechoslovakia. From west to east, they were Bohemia and Moravia (both Czech-speaking), Slovakia, and Ruthenia.
The USSR stole Ruthenia from Czechoslovakia after World War II, and tacked it onto Ukraine. That went along with the theft of half of Poland for the USSR, which was compensated by stealing Silesia and East Prussia from Germany and tacking most of them onto Poland, but keeping Königsberg (Kaliningrad) for themselves.
That's the basic story: lots of twists and turns on the way, for which see Wikipedia under 'Carpathian Ruthenia'.
Zelenskyy Is Jewish.
Zelenskyy Is a comedian.
There is no reason why this is controversial. It might not be funny, but it’s not controversial.
@J Melcher
That's a good one!
So he will now be cancelled and we can stop giving him billions of dollars?
Dr. Weevil, I stand corrected. Posted in haste from memory . . .
“Two lesbians from Odesa meet up,” Zelenskyy said... One lesbian asks the other about “the situation,” and the other tells him that Russia is fighting NATO. Things are going badly for Russia. 70,000 dead Russian soldiers, depleted missile supplies, damaged equipment.
“What about NATO?” the lesbian seeking news asks.
“‘What about NATO? NATO hasn’t even arrived yet!’”
NOT as funny.
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