What is a "pariah"? Can you visit pariahs, if there's something you want from them?
The historical meaning of "Pariah" is (OED):
A member of a scheduled tribe of South India concentrated in southern Kerala and Tamil Nadu, originally functioning notably as sorcerers and ceremonial drummers and also as labourers and servants, but later increasingly as ‘untouchables’ in insanitary occupations.
Or (also historical):
A member of any low caste; a person of no caste, an outcaste.
The current meaning — "The word is considered highly offensive in this sense in southern India" — is:
A member of a despised class of any kind; someone or something shunned or avoided; a social outcast.
Knowing that there are people in India who hear this word as highly offensive, I would recommend avoiding it. Why express antagonism toward Saudi Arabia for its evil action by using a word that expresses unjustified hatred toward an oppressed group?
In any case, if Biden is visiting Saudi Arabia and seeking favor from them, he's quite specifically not treating them like a pariah. And yet he doubles down with this idea that if we don't "understand it," we're the one with the problem. We must be naive and lacking in experience.
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90 comments:
Trump gave them as pass so that they would owe him a favor. Biden was too stupid to do that so they don't owe him anything, quite the opposite.
If Biden is going to go on his knees begging for oil, it would have been better to send Kamala. She's got some experience on her knees.
But this is Biden's Emily Litella moment. "Never mind" what he said in the past. Of course Joey, being Joey, wants to have it both ways.
Joe's position has been so clear. And if you don't like it, he has other positions you can see right through, too.
Pedo Peter Proclaims Pariah, But Petition, Protection, and Payment for Petroleum not in Peril.
Republican Party Pounces!
Next time KSA decides to dispose of an enemy agent of influence, they should be much cleaner about it and try not to get caught on video?
Oh wait, that’s just my position.
Biden is busy wrecking out mideast policy that was working well. Now, he is torpedoing the Abraham Accords by proposing a Palestinian enclave in Jerusalem. Now, it sounds like he is backing away from this.
In the 2020 campaign, Biden sought to appease anti-Israel voices within his own party by promising to open a consulate for the Palestinians in “East Jerusalem.” He also vowed to bring back the Iran nuclear deal, and he criticized Saudi Arabia harshly.
Today, Biden has abandoned plans for a Palestinian consulate that would divide the city — so much so that the White House had to walk back a gaffe by National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, a noted Russia hoaxer, that Biden still intended to do so.
Now, if he will only reverse his energy policy.
Crook Biden and his gang of soros losers cut of our domestic energy supply and now he is begging for Saudi oil. what a farce.
In fairness to Biden, he thought the entire brouhaha was about pierogis.
Recently watched 2 S African films where word kaffir used a lot by whites. So looked up the etymology. Highly offensive in S Africa, and banned even before the end of white rule. But in South Asia not considered offensive, its origin being religious (pagan), not racial.
Personally I resist eliminating words from vocabulary that have taken on a secondary meaning that is not offensive in the society where it is used. Pariah does not seem a problem for me in SoCal. But language is dynamic.
Who cares about what Biden called Saudi Arabia? We know what they are all about. That’s not the biggest hypocrisy here.
The real subject here is that Democrats will blow Saudi Arabia for increased oil output to try and save the midterms, but still will not allow for new US domestic energy production. Shut down the Keystone Pipeline, but approve the SARS2 pipeline from Russia so smarmy, arrogant Western Europe can pretend to be green.
Let approve a pipeline out of Russia, but make sure to expand NATO and keep the cold war going. That’ll work. Look at what happens with liberals when push comes to shove on their Global Warming / Green Energy scams. Germany fires up retired coal plants, and Europe finally admits Nuclear Energy is clean.
And then they push this electric car “let them eat cake” bullshit, while middle class and poor Americans struggle to fill up a tank. Madison, WI should unplug from the electric and natural gas grid, and see if they can run their town on windmills and solar panels.
Hypocrites.
Biden is channeling Obama, who was famous for prefacing incoherent nonsense statements with the phrase "let me be perfectly clear."
Biden always says shit like that.
He says “It’s not me- it’s YOU!”
What an assh*le.
What people should keep in mind is that Joe Biden isn't the United States. He's just the President.
As an individual, he's entitled to his opinion on Saudi Arabia, but that is irrelevant to the long-term strategic interests of the United States, which he is there to defend and articulate.
The United States doesn't have "friends." The United States has interests. The interest we have in Saudi Arabia are removing oil from that territory and transporting it to our territory, at the lowest possible cost absent just taking it at no cost, which we leave open as a possibility should that become necessary.
The people running the United States - which does not include Joe Biden - should keep these facts in mind.
In the meantime, the rulers of Saudi Arabia are free to manage their affairs as they see fit. If that includes chopping up columnists for the Washington Post into little pieces, well, I mean, come on. Where's the crime in that?
The a**hole - and any POTUS - should be taking actions that are in America’s best interest.
His Position IS clear.. They have MONEY, so therefore
a) he will bendover backwards to suck them off.
b) he will SAY, that they are Thugs, or any other insulting and rude thing that he can.
He NEEDS their graft money.. BUT, he ALSO needs the Progressive camp in his camp
Are we still pretending that there is any point in paying attention to what Joe Biden says?
Can you visit pariahs, if there's something you want from them?
Oh, hell yeah. I've been a pariah. We love visitors.
They were terribly concerned with the imagery of Biden shaking the bloody hand.
MBS bailed him out by quickly acceding to the fisting. Had he offered his hand, how would Biden have reacted?
We probably paid a high price for that prearranged little bit of theater.
Billions - with the accent on the B.
Also, that hulk of an SS agent behind Biden is the one I'd want to have around.
Also, watch his body. Dude was poised to strike when MBS walked up.
You’d especially not use the word when you see how Indian citizens are treated as guest workers in Saudi Arabia. Pariah level treatment would be a kindness compared to how the Saudi’s treat them.
The gratuitously staged fist bump - in the guise of dumb vestigial Covid prevention, I suppose - was clumsy and not a good look. Painfully uncordial. Probably planned that way and for that very purpose, to mollify all the Khashoggi griefers.
imagine a world without PARIAYAH / sanitation engineers >>>> visit San Francisco Los Angeles
"Why express antagonism toward Saudi Arabia for its evil action by using a word that expresses unjustified hatred toward an oppressed group?"
In my experience, hatred is usually justified, and oppression is often well-deserved.
The Khashoggi position, also known as the double reverse camel hump. If anyone doesn’t understand it, in Saudi Arabia or anywhere else, then they haven’t been around Joe Biden for a while.
"Knowing that there are people in India who hear this word as highly offensive, I would recommend avoiding it. Why express antagonism toward Saudi Arabia for its evil action by using a word that expresses unjustified hatred toward an oppressed group?"
Where does this stop? Are we responsible for the etymology of all the words we use? I grew up understanding the word "pariah" to mean social outcast, and found your research informative and interesting. But I don't intend to stop using the term, nor will I undertake to research the derivation of many words I use which denote moral judgments much less engage in the historical research necessary to determine whether the term was unjustified.
While there are very few things I am willing to give Biden a pass on, this is one.
The US, Western Europe, and Australia are idiots, or they are up to something sinister. China and India don’t have to comply with carbon emission reductions. The Middle East doesn’t seem to have any plans to do so. And we tell developing nations they can only develop on “clean energy” as dictated by the US, which is impossible.
We are seeing the global power shift because of these moronic policies. Western Europe has their backs against the wall more than Putin and the Russian people. China doesn’t care what we say. The US is still pretending it’s the 1950s and we’re the only country with and post war economy.
Why are college educated white women so enthusiastic about cutting our own throats? For abortion? Teaching and bloated administrative jobs?
President Trump was smart enough to understand these destructive dynamics, and made a correction in course.
But here we are again. Begging Saudi Arabia for fossil fuel output so we can keep the lights on and continue to deliver food to market. Why would any sane government put their people at risk like this, when everything need is right under our own soil?
Kissing ass to the Saudis also keeps the cold war with Russia alive. I can only assume college educated white women like perpetual war as much as the NeoCons.
A lot of us had suspected that Joe Biden hasn't been around for a while. But it's nice to have it confirmed by the squatting President.
Every word is offensive to someone, including every word in this sentence. The English language is offensive to some for merely existing. Impossible task.
Considering Biden cannot remember where he is half the time and he has always been a bonafide fool, the words "clear" and "Biden" should not appear in the same sentence without a "not" or other negation.
Growing up a Tamil in Sri Lanka, I remember the "paraiyar" as a caste. They would drum at funerals and their women would wail for you. They used "parai" drums which they beat with sticks.
"Paraiyan" is what you call someone when you are pissed at them, much like bastard or something like that. We still use it, but I don't think it has caste connotations anymore. Just a bad guy.
With Biden, it's all variations on a "c'mon, man" theme.
Even as a much younger man Biden was never very bright. With his cognitive decline and the onset of dementia he's even less so. It is an unwitting, but high compliment, to be told by Joe that you don't understand his inconsistent actions and his word salad utterances.
Typical Biden response. If anyone can't make sense of his nonsense, then it's their fault.
An insurrection. A Saudi hero, perhaps. An elective abortion. Democratsy in action.
Growing up we had a "No Bob Boyd Club".
Semantic privilege? Antisemantic? Click, whistling, and splitting our way to progressive viability.
IIR Khasshoggi was a 30year dirty Billionaire Saudi arms dealer who took the wrong side in the succession to the Saudi throne. He had CIA friends in the arms business arming Middle East terrorist armies.
The Saudis wanted him dead .He was hiding out in the USA courtesy of the CIA as a fake columnist for WaPo that would print his name on their opinion pieces. When MBS lured him into a trap and executed him, It then became a scandal about “ killing a journalist.”
That’s no way to negotiate.
May we all endeavor to use words with their original meaning forefront in one’s mind before uttering them.
WHY isn't This lady President? Tulsi Gabbard
Sadomasochism is the only way to describe the Biden Administration’s willingness to impoverish and destroy America in order to destroy and inflict maximum pain on Russia.
If pariah becomes a pariah, what about thugs and cretins?
The word 'cretin' was devised centuries ago to designate the inbred inhabitants of high, remote, Alpine valleys; connotes 'Christian,' or having a soul.
These debates tend to the moronic, idiotic, and sub-cretinous.
I must have missed the latest climate study that said that oil from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, etc. has no impact on the earth’s climate. Only oil from the US will cause the earth’s temperature to increase.
"Knowing that there are people in India who hear this word as highly offensive, I would recommend avoiding it."
Of course, what you mean is, "Having read on some Commie website that this term has recently been declared verboten, I would recommend avoiding it."
Are you serious? You won't use the word in English discourse -- well, of course, you just did, multiple times, so I guess you're not serious -- because some rando on the web says that some unspecified people in India regard it as highly offensive? How many words are you planning on letting them forbid you? What if it turns up in one of your beloved word games?
They call the wind pariah.
Russia is so evil and a pariah that we are now back to running the ISS with them as partners. Lol at our f'ing Washington, D.C. grifting frauds.
There are people in the US and UK who consider the word "fuck" highly offensive. But I don't see you getting too exercised about it. Is that because it does not refer to a person or group of people? What about "idiot"? "Moron"? "Imbecile"? "Loser"? "Naif"? "Unperson"? "Ruffian"?
When Trump visited, he was gifted the traditional sword. Biden gets a fist bump.
Today a reporter shouted out asking if Biden still considers Saudi Arabia a pariah. The Saudi delegation did not hide their chuckling.
What would Biden do if the Saudis told Biden they would look favorably on his request for more oil if the US went back to Trump's policy toward Iran? Hmmm.
If Biden threatens the Saudis by withholding military sales, the Saudis have already shown they will buy from Russia and China. Biden is so messed up in the head that he just might threaten them.
So, what's worse--the killing of K. in a Saudi power struggle, or the gratuitous killing of an Afghan family after the Kabul debacle?
Holdfast said: "Next time KSA decides to dispose of an enemy agent of influence, they should be much cleaner about it ... "
Just drone your enemies from 10,000 feet, like Joe Biden and Barack Obama do it.
Biden's diplomatic trip to the Middle East is not going well for all sides. He's pissing off people happy with the Abraham Accords. He's pissing off people who feel like the Palestinians didn't get anything from the Accords. He's blaming Saudi Arabia for all sorts of ills. He's begging Saudi Arabia to produce oil to save his domestic political problems. And he wants to give Iran a nuclear deal that nobody but Obama, Biden, and Iran like.
When your best diplomacy is to call a lid on it early and get ice cream while you relax in the basement of your Delaware home; then perhaps that is where you need to be.
Rit,
What do you mean, Biden was never very btight?
"In the first year of the law school, I decided I didn’t want to be in law school and ended up in the bottom two-thirds of my class,” he continued. “And then I decided to stay, went back to law school, and in fact ended up in the top half of my class."
So did he do better his first year or his second? Math is hard, Barbie.
Ignore for the moment that he lied about this. He actually graduated 76 out of 85,bottom 89%.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
WHY isn't This lady President? Tulsi Gabbard
Hillary Clinton. Until she dies, no other woman can become President first (unless something happens to Biden).
The worst thing about this the Saudis probably could not help Biden even if they wanted. If I were the Saudis I would be pumping as much oil as possible at these prices. This is not like the oil embargo where oil supplies were being artificially curtailed and this was a diplomatic matter.
Of course, one of the main reasons the oil supplies are lower than they should be are Biden's policies and general jackassery. If anything, the Saudis should be asking Biden to help with increasing the supply. I mean they wouldn't since they really like high oil prices and they think Biden is a jackass who cannot be trusted since he can barely remember his own name half the time, but it would still make more sense.
It's gotta annoy Biden that people (people like Jack and Fat) are always accusing him of messing something up.
Killing Koshoqi and dismembering him was a terrible thing, (to get caught at)
Didn't Biden blow up an aide worker and some children in Afghanistan during the withdraw method. And Obama droned US citizen without a trial.
Killing people is no big deal, happens all the time.
We all know, the only reason Koshogi was a big deal is because Trump was President. It was a free political cudgel. Biden, then over played his hystaria, for more political positioning. Never considering one day he would need a favor. A Yuuuge miscalculation, for a man with the foreign policy chops he claims he has.
Shorter Biden: If you don't X, then you ain't Y.
Now tell us about your position on abortion.
The United States doesn't have "friends." The United States has interests. The interest we have in Saudi Arabia are removing oil from that territory and transporting it to our territory, at the lowest possible cost absent just taking it at no cost, which we leave open as a possibility should that become necessary.
Trump's Middle East policy was complicated but it worked. First was US energy independence so we didn't have to beg the Arabs for oil. Second was controlling Iran. Third was establishing commercial links between Sunni Arabs and Israel. Fourth, which was supported by all the Sunni states, was ignoring the Palestinians.
Biden's handlers have blown up all those. He backed away from the "Two State " solution that his handlers want today. I don't know why.
""My position on Khashoggi has been so clear. If anyone doesn’t understand it, in Saudi Arabia or anywhere else, then they ...." ain't black.
MSM Then: Khasshoggi. OMG! Trump is a pig. He won't break relations with the Saudis. They killed a Journalist! Goddamn that Authoritarian Trump. What is the USA coming to?!
MSM Now: Khasshoggi. So, Biden doesn't talk about it. No big whoop. Glad we get along with the Saudis.
MSM Then: Withdraw troops from Nothern Syria. Trump is being paid off by turkey! He's betraying our NOBLE ALLIES - the Kurds. Goddamn that Trump. Someone must stop him. NOW!
MSM Now: We need Sweden and Finland in NATO. If that means letting Turkey have their way with the Kurds in Syria, well, No big whoop. That's the breaks.
Inga, you made me laugh. Definitely a bleeder.
He hopes they will do the dirty, but necessary, work of extracting oil to feed the economies of the West. Seems to me the analogy is apt.
WHY isn't This lady President? Tulsi Gabbard
Wow. Brutal honesty. Whether World War Springs, outsourcing without accountability, energy policies on a half shell, cargo cult science and experimentation, or stimulating progressive prices, Biden's foreign policy exacerbated a progressive condition.
I just wonder why the trip was even started. "Saudis are pariahs, we refuse to shake your hand" - and please give us more oil. "Israeli society is a form of apartheid" - and please trust us to negotiate a treaty with those sworn to destroy you. Was this ever a trip with real possibilities? Maybe they're sending him around so friendly governments will understand the action to be taken. G-20 saw. The Mid-East sees. (Governor Newsom made a visit to the White House while Joe was gone - strolled about in shirt sleeves like an owner, not a visitor. Joe Manchin won't act on any legislation till after the August recess. And in Kenya there is real hunger - not food insecurity but hunger; not later, right now.)
So I can't figure out whether Biden's statements about Saudi Arabia were just for show or his trip to Saudi Arabia is just for show. Maybe both are just for show? Maybe this is why performative (the word) has gained so much traction, because people are exhausted by so many different things done just for show. Well, when oil prices don't come down and gas prices are still no where near what they were 3 years ago, at least Democrats can say President Biden gave it the old college try. At least Manchin saved the Democrats from an unforced error by stopping a tax hike and a doubling down on green energy.
…and he called the bin “pariah”.
I suspect Kamala would have been the better choice to wear the kneepads at House of Saud.
for summer refreshment and enjoyment?
Kaffir lime
"Kaffir" is thought to ultimately derive from the Arabic kafir, meaning infidel, though the mechanism by which it came to be applied to the lime is uncertain. Following the takeover of the Swahili coast, Muslims used the term to refer to the non-Muslim indigenous Africans, who were increasingly abducted for the Indian Ocean slave trade,
also Kuffar
Also spelled 'kafir' or 'kaffir', Kuffar is a highly derogatory Arabic term used to refer to non-Muslims, though it is usually directed less against "People of the Book" (Christians and Jews) and more against others (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, etc).
or in Hillaryspeak >>> Deplorables
John Henry (3:32):
Bottom 89%? No, that could be pretty good: you can be in the top 15% and the bottom 89% simultaneously. The fact is that Biden [I originally wrote 'bottom' - thinking of Shakespeare's donkey-man?] missed the bottom 10% by one place. That is, the next guy below him in the class was in the bottom 10%. Pathetic.
Which reminds me: I had a college classmate who went to law school, was a lawyer for ~10 years, and then proudly announced to the alumni magazine that he had moved up to being a bus driver for the city of Baltimore. Not that I can feel superior: he's already retired to a lakefront house in New England, and I never will. But he didn't exactly need an Ll.D. to do that. And the world would be a better place if Biden had done that.
Has Joe Rogan asked her to be on his Show ?
she will roast his nuts for ??!!!
Hillary Clinton. Until she dies, no other woman can become President first (unless something happens to Biden).
========
solution/workaround : if FJB becomes/identifies Trans-xed after Mid-term he could be etc. [also if he goes to prison he will have hair to sniff]
IIR Khasshoggi was a 30year dirty Billionaire Saudi arms dealer
=========
that was Adnan Khashoggi
Jamal Ahmad Khashoggi is "journalist' and 'martyr' per MSM
KSA fucked up their kidnap/execution - hard to find good help
"Why are college educated white women so enthusiastic about cutting our own throats?"
Well, actually, they're enthusiastic about cutting your throat, and mine. They don't realize that their throats are involved.
"These are my principles, and if you don't like them, well, I have others."
-- Marx
Heard he had to wipe his chin after the meeting.
"Pariah does not seem a problem for me in SoCal. "
That is why the President has diplomatic advisers, to avoid insulting the locals. But the President has to be smart enough to understand and use what they say.
Kashoggi was a known al-Qaeda bagman, with documented trips to visit bin Laden in Afghanistan numerous times before 9/11.
As such, he was more than likely a or the conduit between al-Qaeda and the Saudi government interests that gave the Saudi hijackers clean passports and then vetted them for entry into the US. That could not have happened without connivance from within the government of Saudi Arabia.
My hypothesis is that Trump told the Saudis to clean house, or else. That's what the Prince has been doing, and I suspect that Kashoggi was trying to play games with the Saudi government over what he knew, what he was witness to, and what he could tell the world about 9/11. Because of that, they killed him.
Kashoggi is about as far as you can get from an innocent victim. He was either extremist or extremist-adjacent all of his life. It finally caught up with him, and I feel not one iota of sympathy.
"A member of a despised class of any kind; someone or something shunned or avoided; a social outcast."
That could describe our president.
Richard said...
I must have missed the latest climate study that said that oil from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, etc. has no impact on the earth’s climate. Only oil from the US will cause the earth’s temperature to increase.
This!
Just think, it was a mere 17 months ago that it was an impeachable offense for a US President to not ostracize the Saudi's over the Kashoggi incident.
Then, magically, around mid-Jan of 2021 that all changed and the braying lefties of Althouse blog go dumb and mute.
Almost as if the lefties dont believe a single thing they lecture the rest of us about.
Fen's Law.
I am ready for President Kamala. I think that Joe still kibitzes too much in the affairs of state and causes trouble.
I would prefer a president who knows she’s an imposter.
We are in existential danger as long as Biden;'s handlers run the government. The WEF plans for the civilized countries is to make up poor and desperate. So far they have worked on third world countries like Ghana and Sri Lanka. Now they have taken over the government of the Netherlands.
The Green New Deal is domestically to the U.S. as the Build Back Better agenda is to the rest of the western nations who follow the instructions from the World Economic Forum. Collectively the economies of western government are starting to collapse as the underlying energy policies (climate change) are being implemented.
Quite a few examples there.
Drago,
It's just a means to our end.
No biggee..
"Saudis are pariahs, we refuse to shake your hand"
I read that Biden gave him a fist bump instead.
At a news conference following a meeting with bin Salman, Biden said the prince claimed that he was “not personally responsible” for the death of Khashoggi. “I indicated I thought he was,” the president said he replied.
"Hey, you're a murderer. You got some gas I could buy? Trying to save the planet here." (Fist bump). "I know you killed that guy. Seriously, need some gas. People are bitching and complaining about my energy plan which is awesome."
pi·ra·nha
a deep-bodied South American freshwater fish that typically lives in schools and has very sharp teeth that are used to tear flesh from prey. It has a reputation as a fearsome predator.
Oh. Never mind.
gilbar said...
WHY isn't This lady President? Tulsi Gabbard
Sadomasochism is the only way to describe the Biden Administration’s willingness to impoverish and destroy America in order to destroy and inflict maximum pain on Russia.
7/15/22, 2:45 PM
I'm with you!! Tulsi is the ONLY Democrat I would ever vote for right now, but she is a pariah in her party. Remember...Hillary claimed she was a Russian Asset. To me, THAT is a good thing, when you have Chi-NA Joe selling off America as fast as he can.
3) پرايا पराया parāyā (p. 237)
H پرايا पराया parāyā [S. पर+क+इय, or इकः], adj. (f. parāʼī), Of or belonging to another, another's; other, another, strange, foreign, alien, extraneous: — parāʼe-kā, adj. Another's, &c.: — parāyā-garbh, adj. Pregnant by another (than one's husband).
"So, what's worse--the killing of K. in a Saudi power struggle, or the gratuitous killing of an Afghan family after the Kabul debacle?"
It's not a matter of what's worst, both are acts of killing for political purposes. It's a matter of Biden making a declaration in the heat of the moment that reality (and his own policies) is forcing him to ignore. The journalist's life only meant something when there wasn't any cost to the "outrage." Now that Biden needs the Saudis, the journalist can be safely memory holed. Considering their importance to our Middle East policy, such a turn of events was entirely predictable.
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