"[T]his trial could function as a case study in contrived stereotypes used to discredit women, even if you believe there is some truth behind Mr. Depp’s claims.
Ms. Heard has been portrayed as mentally unstable, hysterical, a gold digger, a temptress who brought home other paramours at all hours of the night, a freeloader who moved her friends into Mr. Depp’s many houses, an attention-seeker with an unquenchable need for drama and of course an untrustworthy liar — textbook undermining strategies, each with its own sexist implications....
Whether you believe Ms. Heard or not, watching a woman excoriated in public has been popular entertainment since the Middle Ages. Somehow, Ms. Heard seems to have become a stand-in for every evil, lying woman getting her comeuppance — alpha queen bees in high school, the girl who slept with your boyfriend or girlfriend, every manipulative ex. She is Eve, she is Medusa, she is Lady Macbeth. She evokes vamps and vampires, wicked stepmothers, witches.... This trial seems to have exposed some of the rhetorical weaknesses of #MeToo. 'Believe women'... had somehow morphed into 'believe all women'... The intent of that early slogan was, in part, to encourage the public to treat women who speak up with basic dignity and respect, however messy and imperfect they or their stories may be...."
Writes Jessica Bennett, in "The Humiliation of Amber Heard Is Both Modern and Medieval" (NYT).
May 20, 2022
"Whatever you think of Ms. Heard’s actions, or whether you choose to believe her, this is a good old-fashioned public pillorying — only memes have replaced the stones...."
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Ms. Heard has been portrayed as mentally unstable, hysterical, a gold digger, a temptress who brought home other paramours at all hours of the night, a freeloader who moved her friends into Mr. Depp’s many houses, an attention-seeker with an unquenchable need for drama and of course an untrustworthy liar — textbook undermining strategies, each with its own sexist implications....
Now do Trump.
What's the role of people who haven't watched a second of it or had any interest. They have no soap opera role, is the problem.
Women nag a lot. Milton noticed that a long time ago. Mute and spiritless mate, he said, in his essay favoring divorce. That was how nagging worked back then.
Everybody knew Johnny was a crazy druggie drunk. We're used to that, so the trial tells us more about Amber. If people had already formed a low impression of Amber and not of Johnny, the trial would make him look bad. Also, he has entertained people at some point. Amber -- not so much.
LOL. So she's all those things, but its OK - because stereotype.
Ms Heard seems to prove why the stereotype exists.
I'm less interested in her, then in Depp. Why put up with her crap? Why, given that Mr. Depp could've had endless numbers of women to be his wife, did he choose this crazy broad?
Its sorta reminds me of Woody Allen. Not the greatest looking guy in the world, but a famous director and with lots of $$ - yet he puts up with crazy Mia AND when he gets tired of her, goes after her plain looking adopted daughter. I mean, can't you do better?
I suppose we're all caged in by our life time experiences. There was a song, "I want a girl, just like the girl that married dear ol' Dad". If your mother was a level headed, intelligent woman, you probably want the same. And you wonder why some Guy wants a crazed bitch. So, maybe Depp's mother was a manipulative loon and he thought that was normal.
I think that's a reasonable point: meToo needs to make it safe for women to speak up. That doesn't mean there aren't limits. It's like whistleblower laws. If someone tries to use them to destoy their rival and gets caught...
I think that's a reasonable point: meToo needs to make it safe for women to speak up. That doesn't mean there aren't limits. It's like whistleblower laws. If someone tries to use them to destoy their rival and gets caught...
’Whether you believe Ms. Heard or not, watching a woman excoriated in public has been popular entertainment since the Middle Ages.’
Cope harder, sweetie.
Ms. Heard has been portrayed as mentally unstable, hysterical, a gold digger, a temptress who brought home other paramours at all hours of the night, a freeloader who moved her friends into Mr. Depp’s many houses, an attention-seeker with an unquenchable need for drama and of course an untrustworthy liar....a stand-in for every evil, lying woman getting her comeuppance — alpha queen bees in high school, the girl who slept with your boyfriend or girlfriend, every manipulative ex. She is Eve, she is Medusa, she is Lady Macbeth. She evokes vamps and vampires, wicked stepmothers, witches.
And if it is true that she is all these things ("even if you believe there is some truth behind Mr. Depp’s claims")? What? People are supposed to ignore it? They are to believe the opposite simply because it is unpleasant?
Ms. Heard has been portrayed as mentally unstable, hysterical, a gold digger, a temptress who brought home other paramours at all hours of the night, a freeloader who moved her friends into Mr. Depp’s many houses, an attention-seeker with an unquenchable need for drama and of course an untrustworthy liar
hmm is ANY of this, not true?
I have no doubt that Amber is as far in the upper right corner of the hot/crazy matrix as any uterus-endowed person can get. Her name is "Amber" for God's sake! Still, why isn't it crystal clear to one and all that Depp is a brutal and wildly out of control specimen? There is no way that he wins this case unless rhhardin's soul mates populate the jury....and I mean that in the nicest possible way, RH.
- Krumhorn
(my preferred adjectives: brilliant/awesome)
"Now do Trump."
Difference is with Trump there's plenty of evidence to back up those claims- particularly his own admissions.
No woman must be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
She sounds like the kind of person that would strike her husband and then berate and belittle him saying, "No I didn't punch you. I hit you, I didn't punch you." And then go and defecate in the bed.
Well if you couldn't possibly be bothered to watch all this sturm and drang---and would happily wish a pox on both Mr. Depp's and Ms. Heard's houses--why all of this just rolls off you like water off a duck's back. Are there nasty women? Yup? Are there nasty, brutish men? Yup, although it's hard to imagine that a guy Depp's size could be brutish.
I've got better things to do like picking up the dog poop deposited in my back yard by my rescue dog. And her antics are more amusing than anything that Heard and Depp can produce.
Theranos has taught us that women lie. Heard wrote an article in conjunction with the ACLU to make a public statement that women are oppressed even in Hollywood,( choke, gasp, OMG.)
A woman who marries a drug abuser is surprised that he is not a good man to be with. Did she take him to a hospital? No, she took 7 Million, and enhanced her employability by being a girl victim.
It's very easy to form an opinion on the Depp/Heard case. You don't have to do any research. You just need to consult your past experience in life. and read one newspaper report. It's like race relations.....The useful moral lesson that I have learned from my study of this case is that if I were blessed with six hundred million dollars, movie star magnetism, and a much younger, beautiful wife, my life would not necessarily be happier or more fulfilled. I am thus somewhat reconciled to the fact that I do not have six hundred million dollars and movie star magnetism. Eat your heart out Johnny Depp.
Whatever. Cast your own version of the tawdry story.
Dissolute lifestyle filled with grotesqueries…
What does the NYT think happened when she "wrote" the WaPo op-ed?
In this case, a cigar is just a cigar.
Everything Bennett says is true. This modern day pillorying is actually a bit of fun.
If you lie down with dogs......
Is it a stereotype if it's true?
If Heard has acted beastly towards Depp, and has other wise acted poorly then she should get the appropriate social treatment.
"rhhardin said...
What's the role of people who haven't watched a second of it or had any interest."
I'm hardening in my determination to not know about whatever is going on here. And the NYT should do the same. Just stop covering the mess if you think covering it is sexist. Wouldn't that be great? NYT says it will not cover this trial because its readers are too sexist to read about this woman respectfully.
"Whatever you think of Ms. Heard’s actions, or whether you choose to believe her, this is a good old-fashioned public pillorying — only memes have replaced the stones...."
So… NOT an old-fashioned pillorying? I’m confused.
There is no way that he wins this case
He's already won. He's proven that the ACLU and Heard colluded to smear Depp. He's proven that Heard went back on her promise to donate the money she extorted out of Depp. He shown the world what a psychotic bitch Heard really is. He knew he was never going to get the money anyway.
Whether you believe Ms. Heard or not, watching a woman excoriated in public has been popular entertainment since the Middle Ages.’
Yeah, 'cause that NEVER happens to men......
You'd have to have a heart of memes not to laugh...
Amber fell for him when she Heard a Little Depp will Do Ya.
I don’t know anymore than has been forced on me by social media headlines but it seems they are both garbage people who behaved badly towards each other. She tried to use his bad behavior (and exaggerated or completely fabricated some of his actions) to get him ostracized publicly and career wise. Seems she is the worst offender here.
Ms. Heard has been portrayed as mentally unstable, hysterical, a gold digger, a temptress who brought home other paramours at all hours of the night, a freeloader who moved her friends into Mr. Depp’s many houses, an attention-seeker with an unquenchable need for drama and of course an untrustworthy liar — textbook undermining strategies, each with its own sexist implications....
Yeah, but a lot of it has been Amber inadvertently portraying herself that way while trying to convince everyone that Johnny Depp is an evil monster who just so happens to control the LAPD and government of Australia.
Amber Heard would make a great Catherine of Aragon.
As Henry Kissinger once observed, “It’s a pity they both can’t lose.”
In this case that’s just what seems to be happening to 2 very deserving parties.
I am of the opinion that the percentage of people in Hollywood who are dirtbags, mentally unstable, sex fiends, drug addicts, and the like is much higher than the general population. I'm sure there are some decent people there, but from here it seems like a place for predators, greedy bastards, psychos, sociopaths, individuals who barely have personalities, and troubled souls that make them great creatives but are otherwise barely functional. These people live a bubble and I assume many of them think this is normal.
From a guy's perspective, I would not want to be associated with Depp or Heard. The thing is Depp seems like the kinda guy who could be decent enough to be around and is probably a lot of fun, and then he would go home and you would not have to deal with any of his super weirdness unless you had to be the responsible friend who would have to check on him when he disappeared for a couple of days. Heard is a man's worse nightmare: a beautiful, talented woman who seems like the perfect partner, and then once you are a couple reveals herself to be mega crazy and dangerous. From a guy's perspective, it is a lot easier to deal with a Depp than a Heard. Amber is like waking up from a pleasant dream and finding yourself in a real life nightmare.
Been guilty watching YouTubes. Fascinating. Story has it all really. Beautiful people, famous people, people who own islands, who have been in movies we have watched, and admired their skills in,clothes, dinners, parties, but now add- in videos, audios, witnesses, yikes even more so. Again, guilty pleasure. Makes me think this is the bread and beer show so we did not pay attention to the important issues, cases going on.
I'm not following this trial at all. I did have a conversation at the dog park about Amber shitting in the bed. Because my dog took a pee on my bed when she was a puppy.
I've never in my life had a woman pee and/or shit in my bed. I have no idea if she was so fucked up on drugs or alcohol that she accidentally shit in the bed while she was sleeping. Or if this was an intentional bed-shitting.
I'm not even sure it matters. I forgave my puppy because she was a puppy and she was a dog and she has to learn.
I don't know what I would do if I married a woman, who then shit in my bed. I would be really unhappy. This is stuff that should be fixed in early childhood. As far as I know, there is no history of men saying stuff like, "women are always shitting in beds." Because women, in fact, are not always shitting in beds.
I think this case is becoming famous because of all the fucked up things that are really unusual -- like shitting in beds -- that the vast majority of us don't run into.
Anyway, based on this one dog park conversation -- and a thread or two on the Althouse blog -- I would daresay that a lot of people think "she's crazy" and "he's crazy for putting up with that crazy shit." It's not like Johnny Depp is coming across as a saint or a victim. In fact, whenever I come across a marital dispute, I usually think they are both to blame and I'm glad that I'm not in that relationship.
So it's kind of dumb for feminists to see "sexism" is America being appalled at a woman for shitting in the bed. I'm sure she did other things too, but that's the one I know about. All you do is discredit feminism, and remind us all that feminists don't see individuals, they just see symbols of the glorious struggle. Ugh.
For the movie version, I would cast Tom Hanks as Depp and Lena Dunham for the Amber Heard part. Casting is key to making this drama credible. The current cast is not only not credible but not relatable. I think Dunham could physically manifest the anguish in Amber's soul, and Hanks could dramatize Depp's suffering and good will......I think the feminists would probably prefer Alec Baldwin and Lily James for the leads. That might be interesting. In any event, these two players were seriously miscast in their present roles.
Sounds true. But my sympathies are with JD. And I shall not waiver.
Boo! Ms Heard Boo! Boo! Boo!
these two players were seriously miscast in their present roles.
ha ha ha
Lena Dunham would be an awesome Amber Heard! But everybody would be wondering why the hell Tom Hanks is with Lena Dunham.
I would cast Bill Murray.
1) I don't think Tom Hanks can play a bad boy.
2) Bill Murray can play a bad boy. And if it's true that Johnny Depp based his pirate on Keith Richards, I would never in a million years say that Tom Hanks could play Keith Richards. Hanks can't play dissolution and very old hell-raiser. But Murray can! And he's underrated as an actor.
3) I would never believe Tom Hanks and Lena Dunham as a couple. Dude. Impossible. But if Bill Murray was playing an old cranky drunk hell-raiser, I could almost believe that he hooked up with Lena Dunham for some damn reason. It's improbable but not impossible (in my opinion).
4) If I was directing this movie, I would tell Lena that I want her to look like she did in that ad she did for Obama. And she would say, "That was 10 years ago." And I'd say, "Yeah yeah, you can do it." And she would say, "You're trying to get me to lose weight!" And I'd say, "No no. I just want you to look like you did in that ad you did for Obama." And then she would jump up and down (the earth might shake a little) and say, "You want me to lose weight!" And she would sue the shit out of me. And I'd get fired and never work in Hollywood again. So you'd have to find another director.
5) Instead of Lena Dunham I would suggest Rachel McAdams, she would be my first pick. Because Lena Dunham is not funny at all and this has to be a comedy. Rachel McAdams is funny (Game Night) and we know she can play a bad girl (Sherlock Holmes). Although I grant you Lena Dunham is more likely to shit in a bed. I can't imagine Rachel McAdams shitting in a bed, ever. (I like Rachel McAdams). My back-up if we can't get Rachel McAdams is to try to get Nicole Kidman. I don't know why, but I can see her shitting in a bed. And then screaming, "It was a joke!"
6. Oh shit, I got a better one. Robert Downey Jr. and Rachel McAdams.
7. Back up casting: Bill Murray and Lucy Liu.
8. And if that doesn't work you could try Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman
9. I know Tom Cruise can't play a pirate. But he played an assassin one time and he was awesome.
10. I wish I had ten but I don't.
wrote an article in conjunction with the ACLU to make a public statement that women are oppressed even in Hollywood,( choke, gasp, OMG.)
She didn't write anything.
The Judge should have sent them both out of the courtroom...done. Casting: Jennifer Lawrence and Bradley Cooper. (Silver Linings...)
My sympathies are with the judge.
The intent of that early slogan was, in part, to encourage the public to treat women who speak up with basic dignity and respect, however messy and imperfect they or their stories may be...."
That happened, and as a result Amber got an op-ed published in the Washington Post. But the flip side of that was, there was a real man accused. A real person was portrayed as a wife-beater and a person who commits sexual assault in the most maniacal ways. Everyone knew it was Depp she was pointing the finger at. In trial she says he was close to killing her.
So even if "believe all women" is meant to be "treat women who speak up with dignity and respect", we have to have some ability to look at the person they are accusing, and what they are going through as a result of that accusation. And when it turns out to have come from an unreliable narrator like Ms Heard, how does Depp get his reputation back?
This isn't a new problem-- people who are accused of heinous things are damaged just by the accusation. Look at the McMartin preschool trial. Children are too innocent to lie about such things! Professionals would never steer children to such accusations!
We actually should be very very harsh on people who make false accusations. We shouldn't assume from the beginning their accusations are false, and we shouldn't believe they are true. But when they are unveiled as not true, we should feel pretty free to pillory the people who made them. They sought to destroy someone else. Amber sought to destroy Johnny Depp.
If a man were accused of doing everything Heard has been accused of doing, the New York Times wouldn’t run a piece like this psychoanalyzing everyone who’s criticizing him, as if that’s some bizarre phenomenon in need of an explanation — especially not if he had lied as brazenly as Amber Heard has. (The lie about donating $7 million, the lie that two edited versions of the same photo of her face are really the same photo…)
If you aspire to Hollywood stardom, you run the risk that the notoriety might just bring similar, but less welcome, levels of attention and scrutiny from the public sector. The public doesn't have to be adoring, you know, just because you've arrogated a star's pedestal for yourself.
Do not believe Heard at all. I’ve been following the proceedings. Depp hooked up with a harpy. His mistake. From most accounts, he’s a bit of a loose wheel with problems managing his money and a penchant for imbibing in intoxicants, so no saint. But nor is she a saint. Had she left it alone after walking away with $7m of his money, none of this would be happening. But she wrote the thinly disguised editorial, so that is on her. Seems they were both a bit unstable during their relationship. June and Ward Cleaver they were not. She should have kept her mouth shut instead of trying to make herself seem virtuous. From what I have seen, she is not. And the pledge of donating the settlement but not following through makes her out as a liar. Not a good look. Hollywood divorces are a dime a dozen, but she continued to go after him after they had settled. Who’s the vindictive one in that scenario?
While neither look good in this, she looks worse..
John at 11:15
clicked on that link
watched it
wow
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