"[President elect Yoon Suk-yeol] was notoriously at the forefront of this trend, catering to a swing bloc of young male voters that his right-wing party, People Power, identified as 'anti-feminist.' Under the umbrella of youth strategy, he created buzz and influence by targeting this loud, aggressive subgroup.... After a catastrophic loss in the 2017 elections — following the impeachment and imprisonment of President Park Geun-hye — the conservative party (then the Liberty Korea Party) desperately needed new strategies, especially to expand to a younger base. Merging with others to start People Power, it found one of its answers, unfortunately, in misogyny.... Yoon’s platform includes stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes — though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases — and abolishing the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. The ministry, founded in 2001, supports and funds various women’s programs, including for oft-stigmatized single mothers, survivors of sex crimes, female laborers and migrant women. The ministry also champions broadening the legal definition of family.... 'I have never tried to divide genders,' Yoon said after his win. 'I’ve been misunderstood and attacked throughout the race; what reason do I have to divide men and women?'"
From "How South Korea’s ‘anti-feminist’ election fueled a gender war" (WaPo).
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Yoon’s platform includes stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes
What reasonable objection to this could there be? Shouldn’t the goal be to remove any incentive to make false accusations?
(hint: it should)
The percentage of rape allegations that are demonstrably false is between 5 and 10%.
People disagree on the exact figure and sociologists are fixated on college students, but 5 to 10% is not "negligible."
Brett Kavanaugh was falsely accused of sexual assault. He is a good example of the psychic, familial, reputational and professional harm that false rape accusations cause. Women who falsely accuse men of rape are criminals.
It's not backlash. Feminism is just part of the comedy that life offers.
Is anyone else into streaming the Korean dramas? My wife is currently obsessed with them and in the last year has watched 3 or 4 all the way through the series. I’ve watched a few just to be a companion and can’t know if they accurately depict male/female relationships, but if they do then the women wear the pants except for the gangsters. If a woman happens to be a gangster then she wears the pants.
Merging with others to start People Power, it found one of its answers, unfortunately, in misogyny....
Oh, I see: disagreeing with feminists = misogyny. Also, disagreeing with trans activists = transphobia, disagreeing with BLM = racism, etc. I think I'm starting to make out the beginnings of a pattern here.
Yoon’s platform includes stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes — though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases
Asserted without evidence, not surprisingly. #MeToo types say false accusations are about 2% of cases, whereas I've read of female police officers who respond to such complaints saying they run as high as about 40 - 50%. Regardless of whether either of those extremes is the real percentage, false accusations of sexual crimes are life-destroying to the falsely accused; the punishment for fraudulent accusations should reflect how serious the crime is. And as it stands -- at least in this country, I can't speak for South Korea -- false accusations of rape rarely seem to be punished at all, never mind commensurately with the gravity of the offense.
Yoon’s platform includes stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes — though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases…
Stuff like this makes me unsympathetic to the author. It’s irrelevant how common false complaints are; they should be strongly discouraged so that true ones can be taken seriously. Is this the worst ‘misogyny’ they can come up with?
Those darn "right wing" young men. Better get them to reeducation camps.
"Merging with others to start People Power, it found one of its answers, unfortunately, in misogyny.... Yoon’s platform includes stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes — though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases--"
Then the stronger penalties are costless and will have no impact. There's no reason not to have them.
Fairness and symmetry dictate that the penalty for lodging a false complaint be exactly identical to the penalty for the action complained about.
Behind a pay wall.
But, from the WaPo, I'm sure, just sure it was a balanced and well documented basis for the hot button headline.
Obviously the elected leader is racist, just like Hitler, misogamy, homophobic, trans-phobic, Islamophobic bastards.
Or conservative. Same thing.
[By the way, who isn't for strong punishment over "false complaints of sexual crimes"?]
The Ministry of Truth is getting very predictable, and I would even say, boring. They need to spice it up a little. Produce some fresh propaganda.
Also, I'm concerned that this news article will increase violence and hatred towards Asian-Americans. Or does it not work that way?
One of the semi-regular South Korean Congressional donny-brooks should settle the question.
First, I don't have access to WaPo, so I can't read the whole piece (that's fine - not complaining; just a disclaimer), but here's the problem I have with a statement like this: "Merging with others to start People Power, it found one of its answers, unfortunately, in misogyny...."
This is from a "newspaper" which claimed that Brett Kavanaugh was and is a misogynist, with no supporting evidence. In fact, the record shows that, when in a position to do so, has hired and promoted women. He was the first Supreme Court justice to hire a full slate of female clerks; his past female clerks have all praised his promotion of women in the workplace. This is just one of a million examples.
I don't trust the WaPo anymore; it makes leading, biased, conclusory statements. I don't even trust it's supporting statements, which also appear conclusory.
[And I'm not a Kavanaugh fan, although the left should be pleased that he has taken a moderate approach after its scorched earth attack on him.]
The important question is: Is this a reaction against good feminism ("Feminism is the radical notion that women are people") or bad feminism (Feminism is the mindset that all the world's problems are caused by men, who should be ashamed of themselves)?
"stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes"
We could use those. Against false racial complaints as well. I propose the Jussie Smollett Fake Hate Crime Act of 2022.
Falsely accusing someone of rape causes far more harm than falsely accusing someone of watering their lawn on an off-day. It isn't misogyny to have a more serious punishment for a more serious crime. If it is, then it is misandry to punish rape with harsher penalties than simple battery.
I was going to say I think this is a little overplayed, but look at these exit poll results! People in their 20's and 30's have the most gender skew, with 20's men being 59.7%-36.3% for Yoon and women being almost the exact reverse, at 58%-33.8% for Lee (23.4% margin vs 24.2% margin). 30's men are 52.8%-42.6% for Yoon (10.2%), and women have a somewhat smaller margin at 49.7%-43.8% for Lee (5.9%). The gender gap is negligible in higher age groups, although 50's women are somewhat more likely to support Yoon than 50's men -- perhaps the mothers of those 20-something men?
You could spin it as an appeal to misogyny, but I think you could also say that young men feel there's a real injustice here, and that society has been brushing them off with snide excuses like "though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases." And based on the polls, slightly more of them feel that way than young women feel the reverse -- so perhaps journalists ought to be looking more deeply into why this might be so, rather than comforting themselves with a pat narrative about "misogyny."
. . . is more or less what I think but Korea is also the most intensely macho and chauvinistic culture I interact with regularly (the others being Japan and US professional class culture, there's not much competition), and their sex scandals involve a lot of rape and sustained sexual harassment, not just people making clumsy passes. So while feminist activism in Korea may be ugly and misandrist, there's a real problem there that needs to be addressed.
From "How South Korea’s ‘anti-feminist’ election fueled a gender war" (WaPo).
Ah, good old WaPo writing another "wet streets caused the rain yesterday" story
The gender war started by the feminists is what fueled the '‘anti-feminist’ election.
it found one of its answers, unfortunately, in misogyny....
It happily found one of its answers in fighting back against the so called "feminists" trying to destroy Korean society
Yoon’s platform includes stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes — though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases
If it actually DOES "constitute a negligible fraction of cases", then that won't be a problem, now will it?
"Believe all women" creates fake rape claims.
The proper response to ANY false criminal complaint (be it rape, hate crime, robbery, murder, or any other crime) is the maximum allowed punishment for the crime for which there was a fake accusation.
If you try to use the State to destroy someone else's life, your life should be destroyed.
and abolishing the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family.
That is an awesome move. Especially since the Ministry's actual goal was "Family Destruction".
Because that's always the goal for the Left
The ministry, founded in 2001, supports and funds various women’s programs
What a shock! "Gender Equality" means "only do things that support women!"
Gosh, I can't imagine why any man might want to vote against that.
The ministry also champions broadening the legal definition of family....
As I said, "Family Destruction."
And no, I had not read this far before I wrote the part above. I'm just informed enough to know that just as "Democratic People's Republic" means "slave state", when the Left talks about "supporting families" what they always means is destroying the male-female two parent families that history has showed is far and away the best way to raise children to be functional members of a decent society
Well, now I'm just interested. Exactly at what point does "stronger penalties against false complaints of sexual crimes" mean you're a misogynist? Are these false complaints common enough to represent all women? One might think so: I count at least three major and enduring sexual assault media scandals of the past twenty years (Duke lacrosse, Rolling Stone at UVA, and Brett Kavanaugh).
Interestingly, the major GENUINE abuse scandals involved Weinstein, Epstein, and Larry Nassar (whose early life has been so scrubbed from the Internet one might assume he was grown in a lab). Are we noticing anything yet, Professor?
I spent my career working with (among other people with mental health issues) sexually traumatised victims and falsely-accused males. I start by believing everyone and no one. In this case, I ask first: the "false complaints of sexual crimes — though these constitute a negligible fraction of cases..." Do we know this to be true? That has been frequently claimed in American as well, but it's crap. There are plenty of false accusations, for a variety of reasons. OTOH, what is the rate of reporting? Is there evidence that the actual incidence of sexual assault is higher than reported because women just don't bother because it is all pain and no justice? Both of these things were(!)and are(?) very real in America. What is the reality in South Korea?
"...backlash against feminism...."
Feminism was the original backlash.
...this loud, aggressive subgroup...
Feminism was the original loud, aggressive subgroup.
"What reasonable objection to this could there be? Shouldn’t the goal be to remove any incentive to make false accusations?"
I remember reading some of Hammurabi's Code. If I'm not mistaken, it said if a woman accuses a man of rape, if it's found that she's telling the truth, he is put to death. If not, she's put to death.
Any problem with that?
Any problem with that?
Unless this guy in Korea is calling for the death penalty for false accusations your comparison is absurd…
Are we noticing anything yet, Professor?
Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't notice the contrast between your scandals. And shouldn't your major GENUINE scandals include Bill Cosby and Roger Ailes, or would that weaken your observation about what we should notice?
Bearing false witness has always been considered very bad. And other than the religious prohibition, crying wolf means that real charges aren't treated as seriously.
Any problem with that?
Nope.
BarrySanders20 said...
Is anyone else into streaming the Korean dramas? My wife is currently obsessed with them and in the last year has watched 3 or 4 all the way through the series. I’ve watched a few just to be a companion and can’t know if they accurately depict male/female relationships, but if they do then the women wear the pants except for the gangsters. If a woman happens to be a gangster then she wears the pants.
A couple of weeks ago, at the beginning of the 24/7 coverage of the Ukraine invasion, I began to search for something other than stale American rom-coms and found Korean "drama" (the term covers a wide swath of genres) on Netflix.
Like your wife, I am officially obsessed. I don't watch the "gangster" or historical dramas (too violent), but my observation is that the warm-hearted romances all involve the heir to one of the wealthy Korean corporate empires who suffered major tragedy in childhood and it is the woman who helps him work through issues and "become a better person".
Very similar to screwball comedies of the '30s thru '50s except that they one season (12-16 episodes) with well-written story arcs, plenty of quirky family and 2nd tier stories.
Any problem with that?
I prefer Odin's test for truth.
The rape victim gets to throw axes at the accused. If he dies, he was guilty. If she misses, he gets to throw axes at HER.
My wife also likes Korean Dramas and also chinese historical dramas. thankfully, I'm not expected to watch.
“I remember reading some of Hammurabi's Code. If I'm not mistaken, it said if a woman accuses a man of rape, if it's found that she's telling the truth, he is put to death. If not, she's put to death.
Any problem with that?”
If you modify the punishment to a standard acceptable to the sensibilities of a modern era, it sounds ok. I question pure symmetry though, if you do actually rape you should have a severe punishment. If you lie to have a severe punishment inflicted on a man for your purposes and amusement, then you should get a severe punishment, perhaps less, but it is a very evil thing to do.
"The rape victim gets to throw axes at the accused. If he dies, he was guilty. If she misses, he gets to throw axes at HER."
Well, putting aside the rape part, that's just called marriage.
Ann Althouse said...
"What reasonable objection to this could there be? Shouldn’t the goal be to remove any incentive to make false accusations?"
I remember reading some of Hammurabi's Code. If I'm not mistaken, it said if a woman accuses a man of rape, if it's found that she's telling the truth, he is put to death. If not, she's put to death.
Any problem with that
I will address this as if you made a good faith attempt at argument instead of the typical snarky crap we get from feminists.
If a woman makes a false claim of rape against a man she is trying to have the state put him in jail for an amount of time.
If she is trying to send a man to jail falsely for X years she is doing harm to society. Sending her to jail for the same amount of time she tried to send him to jail is a good start point.
When you order your society you first need to suppress the incompatible elements.
The next thing you need to do is decide what pressures you put on individuals in order to produce the aggregate trends you want to see.
If a man rapes a women he should have his life destroyed at minimum. Any decent society will absolutely demolish rapists.
Women should feel great pressure to not make false claims of rape. This will destroy a man's life. It should destroy her life if it is a false claim.
Right now women can just accuse men or rape and try to destroy their life with virtually no social or legal recrimination.
What kind of society do you think will result from this situation?
Almost everyone in the world would prefer a society where women who make false claims of rape get crushed.
The only people who like what is happening now are dishonest shitty women.
Ann Althouse said...
"What reasonable objection to this could there be? Shouldn’t the goal be to remove any incentive to make false accusations?"
I remember reading some of Hammurabi's Code. If I'm not mistaken, it said if a woman accuses a man of rape, if it's found that she's telling the truth, he is put to death. If not, she's put to death.
Any problem with that?
=========
that man Hammurabi was wise man. also feminist!
woman don't need no penis to rape man - do with word only!
ROGER AILES!
Ahahaha, thank you for proving my point. This is about serious sexual assault cases, not the Gloria Allred Shrill Feminist Hour. But I am grateful you brought it up: Allred and her daughter Lisa Bloom mysteriously went from "believe all wahmen" to "DUE PROCESS FOR MEN" the minute a Weinstein was involved.
Of course, you are an NPC drone who will believe whatever the Hollywood cabal vomits up, so I don't expect this to make much of an effect on you. Then again, Bill Cosby does belong on the list, doesn't he? I must ask, though, how many NBC executives were relentlessly promoting him as America's Dad while the assaults were being conducted? Most of them? Were they holding together as tightly as any tribe of the Middle Eastern deserts? (Like the Saudis.)
Ann,
I remember reading some of Hammurabi's Code. If I'm not mistaken, it said if a woman accuses a man of rape, if it's found that she's telling the truth, he is put to death. If not, she's put to death.
Any problem with that?
Absolutely no problem in the abstract. But I would be interested to know what the evidentiary standard is like. It's perilously easy to convict someone of a capital crime whose essence is secrecy anyway. What happens if it boils down to "He said/She said"?
Women's rights grow in popularity and awareness; qomen and children hit hardest.
I think rape was a capital crime only if the woman was married. In all other cases, the Code of Hammurabi dealt with this crime the way it dealt with property damage.
The Babylonians followed the principle of an eye for an eye very strictly. If you raped a virgin, her father could rape your wife as punishment! This was the law. I guess we still have some of this in our laws (capital punishment, obviously).
If those damned South Korean male chauvinists could just become all woke, why South Korea could become North Korea.
why do I get the feeling that this writer knows nothing about Korean history?
Try googling neoConfucian philosophy in Korea.
"Right now women can just accuse men or rape and try to destroy their life with virtually no social or legal recrimination.
What kind of society do you think will result from this situation?"
Made me think of "Men Going Their Own Way". GGD'd it for kicks and found this on Wikipedia:
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW /ˈmɪɡtaʊ/) is an anti-feminist, misogynistic, mostly-online community advocating for men to separate themselves from women and from a society which they believe has been corrupted by feminism.[2] The community is a part of the manosphere, a collection of anti-feminist websites and online communities that also includes the men's rights movement, incels, and pickup artists.[3]
Like other manosphere communities, MGTOW overlaps with the alt-right and white supremacist movements,[4] and it has been implicated in online harassment of women.[5] The Southern Poverty Law Center categorizes MGTOW as a part of the male supremacist ideology.[6]
"Men's rights" bad? Whodathunkit? It would appear it's misogynist/white supremacist all the way down.
I fell down the rabbit hole of K-drama for a while. Have watched romantic, gangster, adventure. They’re interesting and fun. At least two that had romance didn’t tie everything up in a neat bow, as they would if done here. I liked that. They can be both amusing and emotionally affecting. If the setting is a smaller town, the townswomen are often loud and pushy but very funny.
I need to find a new one. I’m overdue.
Feminism is supposed to grow endlessly, without limitation.
I am woman, hear me roar.
Wait... is anyone listening to me anymore?
And if so, why?
I worked the Genesis Open golf tournament a few years ago in The Palisades in Los Angeles. Genesis is a Korean company, which used to be a division of Hyundai, but they spun it off.
Anyway, the executives from Genesis were doing a walkthrough of the display and set and the Vice President demanded all the women leave before he arrived. And they did. They were all pissed about it, but they left.
Blew my mind that in 2020 they could get away with that.
I remember in Hammurabi's code that if a wall or building falls down and kills someone's children, the builder's children are killed. Sounds fair. BTW, rape was a capital crime in many states during much of my lifetime. False accusations of rape never have been capital crimes.
So, the solution is for feminists and masculinists to butt heads, pin the tail on the Ass, and don't spare the collateral damage. One step forward, two steps backward. Nice.
That said, men and women are equal in rights (not rites), and complementary in Nature/nature. Reconcile.
It is funny that we now how a standard to compare this to.
Jussie Smollett made a false report to police and got 5 months in the pen, 3 years probation, $120k paying police costs, and $20,000 fine.
So we can start there, Ms. Althouse.
A woman who wants a guy in jail, career shattered, reputation indefensibly ruined gets to fork out $20k and pay his damages, legal and fiscal for 2 years.
But I see how it is popular to be able to sling soul crushing accusations like Christine Blasey Ford without any repercussions.
But I see how it is popular to be able to sling soul crushing accusations like Christine Blasey Ford
Yes, it's politically congruent, at least until it reaches home, then #MeToo and similar activism hit the fan. Fortunately, most women and men do not indulge in, for example, sex chauvinistic ideologies, and, at least in America, follow the guidance of The Constitution, less the emanations from penumbras favored by divergent faiths, religions, ideologies, and special and peculiar interests.
Ann Althouse said...
"What reasonable objection to this could there be? Shouldn’t the goal be to remove any incentive to make false accusations?"
I remember reading some of Hammurabi's Code. If I'm not mistaken, it said if a woman accuses a man of rape, if it's found that she's telling the truth, he is put to death. If not, she's put to death.
Any problem with that?
None at all
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