Writes Arwa Mahdawi in The Guardian.
It's like in the old days: People decide sex is bad.
January 9, 2022
"Over the past decade a number of studies have found a significant decline in sexual activity around the world..."
"... the latest example of this being a recent US-focused study showing declines from 2009 to 2018 in all forms of partnered sexual activity and a decline in adolescent masturbation. The researchers, by the way, looked at self-reported information from government surveys among people 14-49 years old.... So what’s going on with young and youngish people these days?... There’s increasing social media and video game use, of course. A decrease in alcohol use could be another factor. Perhaps most interesting and worrying, however, is the researchers’ hypothesis that the mainstreaming of extremely rough sex could be putting a generation of young people off sex altogether.... Pornography has played a big role in this, but women’s magazines and popular culture (50 Shades of Grey, for example) have also helped to make rough sex 'trendy.'"
Writes Arwa Mahdawi in The Guardian.
Writes Arwa Mahdawi in The Guardian.
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The Guardian photo accompanying this blog post shows a noose.
I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. But many possibilities come to mind.
@Andrew
Sorry, my first publication of this post had some stray code in it that was unintended. I've fixed it. Hope you weren't emotionally scarred!
I would be put off too if anal was just expected. And apparently it is.
Happy to be old and out of it.
It's like in the old days: People decide sex is bad.
When was that? Where? In the "old days," it was recognized that sex had its place. And that being obsessed with sex and acting constantly like a dog humping the couch wasn't a good thing. Maybe it's not such a bad thing to not have one's life controlled by all sex (in thought or deed) all the time.
The bleak result of this will put an ironic tweak on an old saying:
“The fucking you got for the fucking you didn’t get.”
I for one am having less sex than 50 years ago. I haven't surveyed anybody else though.
A lowering of testosterone is also taking place. Not anecdotally- though there is that- but scientific studies following this trend. So I'm sure that has an impact. Plus, once you teach a generation that masculinity is toxic, well...you get unsurprising results.
Good luck in about 30 years.
"I for one am having less sex than 50 years ago."
If you're over 49, you're not included in the research reported.
Porn and video games aren't the cause, but the symptom. The cause is a world where young men have grown up with every avenue of traditional masculinity attacked. It's a world where young women were encouraged to spend their prime childbearing years climbing the career ladder and "having fun." It's a world where the social institutions and customs which served to help young men and women of previous generations to meet have been slowly killed off.
"A lowering of testosterone is also taking place. Not anecdotally- though there is that- but scientific studies following this trend. So I'm sure that has an impact. Plus, once you teach a generation that masculinity is toxic, well...you get unsurprising results."
If you're just having sex because of testosterone, it seems so pointless and silly. Yet people *take* testosterone, so they must somehow want what they don't want.
Related:
"According to research, men’s testosterone levels have dropped at least 20% in the last 20 years with more and more younger men suffering the effects of low testosterone.
This is not a new trend. Seventy-year-old men in 1987-89 had an average testosterone level that was almost 100 points higher than even 55-year-old men in 2002-04. Meaning that the average 22 year old man today, has an average testosterone level roughly equal to that of a 67 year old man in 2000. Therefore, it’s likely that your testosterone levels are half of those of your father and undoubtedly significantly less than your grandfather."
https://myparla.com/decreasing-testosterone-levels/
If you're just eating because you're hungry, it seems so pointless and silly.
Might the researchers’ interpretations be backwards? Perhaps it is just a return toward a long-term norm after a period of heightened activity? Could it be that the hype about sex all the time just didn’t deliver the promise, as in “Is that all there is?” Humans are still wired to link emotions with sex, despite popular belief.
That may (may!) explain the decline in sex between unmarried people (which, let’s face it, is overall probably a good thing), but it doesn’t explain the decline in masterbation. (Curious, the prudes at blogger don’t recognize masterbation as a word.) Either sexual desire is going down (and, if so, we really need to find out why) or there is some other reason, like a decline in opportunity caused by helicopter parents.
Or, since it’s a self-reported study, it’s all just BS and we don’t have any idea what people’s habits really are or how they’re changing.
Bender said...
When was that? Where? In the "old days," it was recognized that sex had its place. And that being obsessed with sex and acting constantly like a dog humping the couch wasn't a good thing. Maybe it's not such a bad thing to not have one's life controlled by all sex (in thought or deed) all the time.
Username does not check out
“ masterbation. (Curious, the prudes at blogger don’t recognize masterbation as a word.)”
Have you tried masturbation?
Our Professor confusingly says....
It's like in the old days: People decide sex is bad.
Please do us ALL a favor, and Read the Reading assignments YOU assign
LESS people are having sex now.... It's NOT like "the old days"
That may (may!) explain the decline in sex between unmarried people (which, let’s face it, is overall probably a good thing), but it doesn’t explain the decline in masterbation....Or, since it’s a self-reported study, it’s all just BS
Other studies have shown that sexual activity (with other people) is down. But self-reporting would be a reason that people would under-report their masturbatory activity. Not many people brag about how much they do it.
Wake up! It’s now known as primarybation…
There always seem to be plenty of people, male and female, that want to have sex with me.
Perhaps I am an Outlier.
Needless to say, I hope they don't give up on sex just because I may have rebuffed their advances.
The ocean has a lot of fish.
-Loren
“ masterbation. (Curious, the prudes at blogger don’t recognize masterbation as a word.)”
Have you tried masturbation?
Why not ask if he likes to hang around gymnasiums? Or if he's ever been in a Turkish prison? Or if he likes movies about gladiators?
The part about a decline in masturbation seems iffy. How would that track with the cultural explosion of online pornography?
Testosterone also helps combat post-menopausal fatigue and weight gain, so maybe among women who are taking it, that's more their reason than increased libido.
Also, I fully agree with Carol about anal. And am very glad that my husband is also put off by the idea of asking such of me.
"If you're just having sex because of testosterone, it seems so pointless and silly. Yet people *take* testosterone, so they must somehow want what they don't want."
That is a kind of weird thing to say, but maybe females have a different view of this. With no testosterone, men have no interest in sex at all because they can derive no physical pleasure from it. Like it or not, we and our desires are the sum of the biological material from which we are made. As I think pretty much any man will tell you, many of the things we find sexually arousing can be very off-putting or just ho-hum the instant after orgasm. What I get from these surveys is that increasingly men aren't aroused, and there is probably a biological reason like low T involved. The why of this needs an answer, but I suspect it is due to obesity in some fashion.
have also helped to make rough sex 'trendy'
I blame Euell Gibbons for making roughage trendy.
"Then they're doing it wrong." - Obligatory response to "People decide sex is bad."
Someone had to.
Loren W Laurent said...
The ocean has a lot of fish.
WHO Wants to Have Sex with a Fish?
So it really is 1984. The Anti-Sex League. I always thought Huxley was more on the money: the future regime would encourage licentious sex, free of emotional bonds or commitments. But of course, the country's (and the world's -- soon, if not just yet) population is aging, so sex is less of a concern.
I also felt like Orwell may have been portraying sex as more central to his life than it really was. He seemed like he would have been more against making celibacy a movement than in favor of sex (what with the coughing up blood and other inconveniences).
Someone with a strong constitution (or a particularly depraved mind) should read through sex advice columns as they evolved through the decades to see how many situations that people wrote about or dreamed about or masturbated to are now streng verboten.
'If you're just having sex because of testosterone, it seems so pointless and silly.'
Testosterone is a biological mechanism that drives the desire to have sex.
Men aren't tested for testosterone levels like covid.
If men's levels were higher in the past, they didn't know it, they just acted like men with high testosterone levels would act...they wanted sex.
Testosterone is a factor in procreation and the survival of the species.
I think your phrasing is off or you meant to say something else...
'Have you tried masturbation?'
At least it's sex with someone you love...
-- Woody Allen paraphrase
It's like in the old days: People decide sex is bad.
Let us have a look at the pressures that elites have released into society that drive individual decisions.
If you are a married couple raising a child to the age of 18 costs millions of dollars.
Much less expensive for a single parent especially a female.
Illegal immigrants have all of their child care costs covered if they are willing to live at a subsistence level in the US that is a higher standard of living than the 3rd world shithole they came from.
Males are persecuted for at least 18 years if they get a woman pregnant. The state follows them around and takes half the money they earn through garnishments and gives that money to someone else.
There is an industry built on selling baby parts.
It is a total mystery why birth rates are down.
Most of our friends had one or two kids; only about half of those kids are likely to marry and procreate.
Our 35 y.o. son's sex life, if any, is completely opaque to us. My wife met a young lady he was seeing about 15 years ago, but I've never heard so much as a whiff of dating or romance talk from him.
But then I reflect that without the friends I made in highschool--who forced me into a social scene I probably would have avoided on my own--I might still be single.
Also from Woody--
Post-coital Countess: That was amazing!
Boris: I practice a lot when I'm alone.
I would like to know if that is the case with gay men. I’ve always wondered if a large part of the gay attraction is not having to worry about being accused of rape or the rest of the horror that can go on now for men if they hook up with the wrong person.
I understand why it is happening of course, but I do wish men would be more discreet when they watch me choose a cucumber from the produce aisle.
The size of cucumber I select should not be a point of sweaty extrapolation.
-Loren
I expect the lowering of testosterone could be attributed to the lowering of physical work. One of the best ways to increase testosterone ( I have read ) is to increase your muscle mass.
Ann Althouse said...
If you're just having sex because of testosterone, it seems so pointless and silly. Yet people *take* testosterone, so they must somehow want what they don't want.
This statement shows a genuine misunderstanding of how your brain and emotions actually work.
Testosterone levels change how your brain works and what you want to accomplish and mostly how much drive you have to accomplish whatever it is you want to do.
Your emotions are driven by your hormone levels or lack of them.
I blame the fast-food diet, my parent's generation ate real food. I tried to eat real food and did mostly. There use to be a lot of cafeterias that served real food until they all had closed about 20 years ago because most of the older generation had died, death eliminated all their customers.
Ann said: "If you're just having sex because of testosterone, it seems so pointless and silly. Yet people *take* testosterone, so they must somehow want what they don't want."
I think a lot of people want what they don't really want. One of the reasons that I never focused my theater career on acting was that I would never want to be famous. But I knew so many actors who wanted that over everything else. But I also knew some celebrities who really hated the fact that they were so famous that they couldn't live quiet, normal lives.
As Mr. Spock once said, "After a time, you may find that 'having' is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as 'wanting.' It is not logical, but it is often true."
But getting back to the original post, I really think that technology is the main reason why people aren't developing social/sexual skills the same way that they used to. Physical human interactions are being replaced with online interactions.
A secondary reason for less physical contact is the world of sexual harassment. We've been told that all physical contact needs to be given prior approval. And now they're saying that even the act of asking for approval for physical contact can also be harassment. This can lead to inertia when it comes to physical human contact. No one wants to get hauled into Human Resources for daring to ask someone out.
Maybe Ghislaine Maxwell could strike a deal to help address this problem as a consultant. She was able to convince young, fertile women with the whole world in front of them that the best use of their time was satisfying some creepy, mysterious old guy. Imagine what she could do for a decent, responsible guy in his 20's.
Don't worry, Bill Clinton is taking up the slack...
The cucumber situation I described above also applies when I am choosing a banana.
But you already knew that.
-Loren
"A secondary reason for less physical contact is the world of sexual harassment. We've been told that all physical contact needs to be given prior approval. And now they're saying that even the act of asking for approval for physical contact can also be harassment."
As Albert Ellis might say, sure, we were told this, but we were the ones dumb enough to believe it.
"No one wants to get hauled into Human Resources for daring to ask someone out."
I would hold my head high with a big smirk on my face. If anything's worth facing the supposed wrath of useless bureaucrats, it's the possibility of connecting with someone to love. FWIW I walk the walk on this as I asked out someone at my workplace just a month ago.
“WHO Wants to Have Sex with a Fish?”
Kurt Eichenputz?
"The ocean has a lot of fish."
Technically true but the average guy past his mid-20's effectively lives in the desert and has few to no places in his day-to-life where he even encounters potential partners. He may work in a mostly male/mostly older industry and have limited contact with his old college social circles. He's probably not religious, but if he is, there are zero normal single woman over 18 who attend his church. What's left? Dating apps (overrated and mostly worthless for most men), cold approach (works but requires lots of time and good social calibration), and coed hobbies.
In order to get sex you need proximity + attraction + comfort + logistics and many guys lack even this first component.
Mine's bigger.
@Ann,
"Hope you weren't emotionally scarred!"
Thanks. I'm okay now. I talked to my therapist.
Sex is far more expensive than it used to be, and I don't mean just financially.
Every second there are 18,000 ejaculations of sperm, and 4.4 births.
I wonder if Yancey isn’t on to something and the obesity explosion doesn’t account for the change. If a certain additional percentage of young people become physically unattractive/unfit every year, a downward trend in hooking up is hardly surprising. When I was a young Cracker, even most of the plain girls had rockin’ bods and were sexually attractive. These days, not so much. Based purely on objective, non-creepy, observation. Same for young men. I was never beautiful but I was lean as a wolf, as were most of my peers. Where did all these bearded schlubs come from?
Jokah Macpherson said...
Maybe Ghislaine Maxwell could strike a deal to help address this problem as a consultant. She was able to convince young, fertile women with the whole world in front of them that the best use of their time was satisfying some creepy, mysterious old guy. Imagine what she could do for a decent, responsible guy in his 20's."
Today's thread winner.
I don't believe any of these surveys. For one thing they are self-selected. Regarding testosterone, a lot of older men still have desire they just can't perform as they did when younger or not at all. Just watch older men giving the side eye to a young and attractive woman. The old boy knows there is no chance of anything happening but he looks anyway because in that moment he wants to although he knows he can't. He enjoys that moment because the attraction for the moment makes him feel momentarily young and virile. I suppose the same is true for woman when they give some attractive man the side eye.
Does Joe Biden taking showers with his daughter count as sexual activity?
I am not sure, but judging by the front page of a porn site, it almost seems like a campaign to normalize anal sex, which has zero appeal to lots of people
More and more, sane men are simply refusing to date Social Justice Warriors, feminists, etc. If sex requires sticking your dick into crazy, they'll simply forgo sex with other people.
--- but he might want to look into just how expensive having a kid is these days.
From the Guardian article -- a big factor. Birth rates fell during the Depression. But we aren't in a Depression -- no, but we have maximized the profitability of every conceivable economic activity. So calling the plumber is not just a nuisance, it can make a dent in the budget. How about taking that fourth child to the orthodontist? Oops, no fourth child. The biggest ticket, college tuitions, have been subsidized into the stratosphere.
An aside on that last -- many Democrats want to forgive all student loan debt. But student loan debt comprises half of our government's assets!
Economics moves in large cycles, and prosperity cannot be sustained indefinitely because it always includes some of the seeds of its own destruction. The poor demographics of the developed world are one such glaring issue -- we are bizarrely making sure we have a much more limited future than our present.
Another issue in this is the falling sperm counts of men around the world. No explanation that I have heard for it.
Unless it is measured objectively by third party monitors, I don't believe anything from surveys about human behavior. People lie all the time on surveys. All the time.
The survey says that youngsters with access to infinite amounts of free video porn masturbate less often than we all did decades ago? Does the survey have a bridge it can sell me, too?
Yancy is probably on to something with his observation that obesity may be a cause of lower testosterone. But why is there an epidemic of obesity? It's worldwide and cross-cultural. Something changed in the 1970s and 80s. It's not just a lack of exercise. More likely it's due to chemicals we've added to the environment. Some plastics, for example, mimic estrogen.
Title IX explains it all. By which I mean not the original legislation with its most worthy ideals of equal access to sports, but what it has (ahem) engendered, with the Reign of Terror for anyone even faintly associated with an accusation of sexual impropriety. I can only imagine how this culture of fear (and thoughtless life-shattering power) has demoralized young people of every sexual persuasion. "I like him/her a lot...but what if I say the wrong thing and get investigated? My buddy X was put on the bus last month, kissing goodbye to four years' tuition and sweat, because he patted that horrible shrew on the shoulder and she needed one more scalp for her college career..."
I remember that in one of his last interviews, Hugh Hefner wondered if he started something that got out of hand. Hell, Guccione and Larry Flynt would blush at some of this stuff! A continuum, so they're responsible, I guess.
People decide sex is bad.
@Meade, sounds like you have your work cut out for you, friend. Good luck!
Anal sex is not just promoted in porn. Hollywood has been trying to normalize it for years. I was shocked the first time I saw it on television. Breaking Bad, Roman Empire, that Spy show about Russian spies living in the suburbs. It almos seemed like a campaign to normalize sodomy.
Loren is Titus
“If you're just having sex because of testosterone, it seems so pointless and silly.”
I doubt it’s necessarily something people notice? If testosterone is at appropriate levels- then nature takes its course w/out asking why.
When I was younger- there were bars everywhere where we could go and dance to live bands and hang out. 18drinking age I luckily Grandfathered through. They’ve all closed down. There’s still a bowling alley. I think putting the drinking age to 21 drove that age group to drink out of sight. Now, parents have parties and drink and drug w/their kids. Stupid stupid. Stupid. “At least I know my kid’s safe- at least they can’t drive, we take their keys…”
Drugs, birth control, tech… 3things I never had.
I miss my younger days.
… I would think a banana would need more- testosterone.
...or Shouting Thomas
speaking of nooses, I happened to see a skit from the day John Madden did SNL. Locker room skit. Some white guy hanging by a noose the entire 4 minute skit. Murphy and Piscopo years. Not sure who the white guy was.
Shiver me timbers
Climate change is ruining everything.
I am writing as the number of comments is 69. Heh.
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