ADDED: Are Democrats trying to win with ideas? Obama is saying Republicans should put their ideas up against the Democrat's ideas, and let the people compare the ideas and pick what they like. I'm irritated by the assertion that McAuliffe's opponent isn't talking about ideas and McAuliffe supposedly is. But I do like the idea of calmly and clearly showing people the ideas and letting us choose. This is something I talked about in my first year of blogging, in a post called "Mysterious personal reaction to Dick Cheney."Obama claims Republicans are “trying to rig elections” pic.twitter.com/SVl5o4uAtl
— Jewish Deplorable (@TrumpJew2) October 24, 2021
October 24, 2021
Obama — stumping for McAuliffe — asserts that Republicans are not trying to win with ideas.
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Obama claims Republicans are “trying to rig elections”
Accusing their opponents of what they're doing themselves? Democrats are certainly predictable.
The usual tone-deaf, useless words from Barry. People have not forgotten his Reign of Error, including all the racial healing.
"Are Democrats trying to win with ideas?"
Yes. Especially the idea of paying people with other people's money to vote for Dems.
"But I do like the idea of calmly and clearly showing people the ideas and letting us choose."
I like the idea of calmly and clearly showing people why the idea that politics is or ought to be about calmly and clearly showing people ideas and letting them choose is absurd--and why actual appeals to calm clarity about ideas are dangerously close to civility BS.
With his “rigged” comment, Obama is using the same rhetoric that Trump used.
“America First” and “Make America Great Again” are slogans that cover lots of policy ideas. What does “Build Back Better” mean other than wasteful spending with favored special interest groups? Dems are always tax and spend.
Are Democrats trying to win with ideas?
No, the Democrats are trying not to lose by having their ideas & policies become too public. That's why they run with fake moderates as fronts, and play voter group off against voter group by telling them, in one fashion or another, "the Republicans are gonna put y'all back in chains!"
I'm irritated by the assertion that McAuliffe's opponent isn't talking about ideas and McAuliffe supposedly is.
Both sides feel that the other side's "ideas" are obviously ridiculous and thus don't count as real ideas.
Projection makes an ugly public exhibition.
Youngkin has very clearly put his ideas out in the open. It is, in fact, the Democrats who are still running against Trump, and refuse to discuss their policies. Obama is lying, again. How could anyone have ever voted for him?
Republicans ARE trying to Rig elections!!
They're trying to rig it so you can only vote once; and then only if you are alive!!
The Democrat Idea: All racial groups are equally endowed with the capacity for inventing, producing, investing and accumulating material wealth, and conversely with the negative traits associated with violent crime. Thus, any discrepancies in the average wealth or rate of incarceration of different racial groups can only be explained by Systemic Racism benefiting certain racial groups and punishing other racial groups. Any individual or party expressing scepticism or disagreeing with any aspect of The Democrat Idea is defending this systemic racism and is therefore racist.
Democrats trying to win with ideas?
They won't admit that they HAVE ideas, in fact; they DENY Any Existence of those ideas
Heck! They Won't Even allow those ideas to be Defined!
Ideas. Like "HOPE!"
Take it from a Virginian, there really is the clash of ideas that Obama is calling for, the most basic of which is whether parents have a right to observe what their children are being taught, and to have input to that material without fear of being labeled "domestic terrorists." Glenn Youngkin and Republicans affirm that right, Terry McAuliffe and the Democrats -- apparently including Barack Obama -- deny that right.
Ignore what you may read in the New York Times and Washington Post *. McAuliffe did not just say something in the late September debate that Glenn Youngkin is taking out of context -- he has said essentially the same thing on at least four additional occasions as direct responses to direct questions.
__________________
* BTW, this is actually good advice for just about anything you read in the Times or the Post.
When has Obama never NOT been full of "shoot"?
Obama's part of the problem, not the solution.
Of course, nobody is trying to win with ideas. The divide between Democrats and Republicans is not ideological but ethno-cultural and socioeconomic. Both parties support the neoliberal economic order and global militarism. The attacks on Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump are not ideological in nature but conspiracy-minded, borderline-obsessive histrionics. That is, primarily emotional. And feelings don't care about facts. You can't tell someone who's in love that they're not. Same goes for someone who's in hate.
Border security is a good idea. Getting over the Covid panic is a good idea. Allowing energy companies to do what they do best is a good idea. Opposing CRT is a good idea. The GOP has lots of ideas, Obama. You just don't like them.
If you still haven’t figured it out: Democrats ALWAYS accuse Republicans of what Democrats are guilty. It’s the high ground game, and they seem good enough at it…
Can you imagine McAuliffe losing now? Got several black sooper dooper heavy hitters on his side, including the king himself. Not to mention the built in cheating. Very serious situation now.
It's just a feint...while Obama jabbers, the Democrat presses are busy cranking out pre-printed ballots...
The two ideas are free stuff and free stuff leads to collapse.
Fuck Obama.
'Fuck Obama.'
Let's Go Barack!
Barry just doing a holding action while the anticipated 6 to 8 million democrat voters come across the border. Then all will be well and they will rule until the end of time. (EOT may come sooner than they think if Joe. Jake, Sally, and Jill keep screwing up.)
Well, this is Obama's third term. It's Obama's second team running the country. If they are fucking up, I don't blame him for getting out there among the anointed and spouting some rhetoric. He doesn't want to get too far into Bill Ayres' ideas, though, as that is what Obama thinks.
The catch is that the Left identifies opposing viewpoints as "dangerous ideas" and tries to shutdown those who voice them.
Barry sez a "Phony Trumped Up Culture War" culture war. Well who could argue with the author of a program called a "Fundamental Transformation of a Culture"? A culture so very at odds with America's founding principles. Almost like he didn't grow up here! He mouths Soros' words.
Farmer, You been here for the last three years? Attacks on Trump have been conspiracy obsessions? Put down the pipe, dude. Pay attention to Mr. Durham, try to learn.
"Ideas" here means spending tax money. The ideas may or may not fulfill their stated goals but they do please the party's core constituencies. "Ideas" in this sense don't involve much thinking and may demand very little serious thought. Sometimes it only takes a little thinking to point out where the big ideas go wrong.
"Because there's a mood out there. There's a politics of meanness and division and conflict, of tribalism and cynicism. That's one path. But the good news is there's another path where we pull together and we solve big problems."
Reading about McAuliffe's campaign, I don't see much in the way of ideas. It's mostly abuse of Youngkin as a follower of Trump and stoking fears of insurrection or the Republicans turning Virginia into Texas or Florida. That's the Biden campaign redux. It's playing to fears and faking a facade of decency and normality. After the election, when they get to the actual ideas there isn't much there for ordinary voters.
Was there any debate/discussion of HR1 nationalizing election law before it passed the House?
Was there any debate or discussion of granting citizenship for eight million illegals in the reconciliation bill?
Was there any debate or discussion prior to Biden banning new oil and gas leases on Federal land?
Republican positions are mischaracterized; Recent posts here have highlighted the Democratic goal of selling the positive aspects of their programs while ignoring any downside.
I’d love to see a real debate on the Democratic vs. Republican positions. Instead we get immolating straw men.
My fantasy is shock collars that engage when the person wearing them lies. Make every Democrat and every Republican wear them for all public appearances. And I mean put enough juice in it to knock them on their ass. Oh well, that will never happen.
The Democrat Idea: All racial groups are equally endowed with the capacity for inventing, producing, investing and accumulating material wealth, and conversely with the negative traits associated with violent crime.
But don't say that all racial groups have the same culture and values. That would be White Supremacist. See, they can do all of the above without doing all of the work involved in achieving those goals. That would also be WP.
Democrats try to win elections with ideas by screaming about how racist, sexist and mean Republicans are. They win elections by smearing their opposition.
And of course the main idea Red Diaper Barry opposes is liberty.
When was the last time anyone in either party addressed the concerns of their opponents? Obama ignores the elephant in the room (thank you, and tip the waitstaff) of GOP calls for vote integrity and instead leaps to an argument about rigging elections, which is so very much a kettle call denouncing a frypan. And GOP folk look like donkeys (I am all about equity), ignoring Democrat accusations about vote integrity laws limiting the vote unfairly.
Five minutes of both sides simply addressing that of which they are accused by the opposition would be so very, very refreshing. But no, all we get is the same old, same old from both sides, without any regard for the other side's position or arguments, and zero attempts at convincing anyone other than their own partisans to support their position.
Obama lies by ommission and commission, via strawmen arguments, assumption of facts very much not in evidence, misconstruction of his opposition's position, and premises so invalid they scream for rebuttal, every time he opens his yap. I don't miss him at all, at all.
Kind of hard to have a debate over the ideas when the mere mention of right-wing ideas causes the left to try and cancel you.
Obama has a knack for showing us where he believes the Democrats are vulnerable with voters.
As far as I can tell their only real problem with "Stop the Steal" is that they didn't come up with it first.
RMc said...
AA: I'm irritated by the assertion that McAuliffe's opponent isn't talking about ideas and McAuliffe supposedly is.
Both sides feel that the other side's "ideas" are obviously ridiculous and thus don't count as real ideas.
Um, no.
The Right says that the Left's ideas, like McAuliffe' belief that parents shouldn't have input in what and how their children are taught, are evil. They're real ideas, they're just wrong.
The Left, OTOH, knows their ideas are utter crap, and that they can't stand up to argument.
Thus the Left tries to censor the Right, bu the Right doesn't try to censor the Left
gilbar said...
Republicans ARE trying to Rig elections!!
They're trying to rig it so you can only vote once; and then only if you are alive!!
Even worse, they're demanding that you actually have the legal right to vote in that election before you're allowed to vote!
They're trying to rig it so you can only vote once; and then only if you are alive!!
Oh, more (worse?) than that. The GOP's idea is that only [living] citizens can vote [once]. Only citizens who reside in the precinct or jurisdiction for whose candidates and propositions they are voting. Only citizens who have registered within those jurisdictions some days before the election, in order to give the bureaucratic "deep state" those days to time to do "background checks" on the [valid] names and [actually existent] addresses.
To those ends the GOP's idea is to promote and default to "In-Person voting over "Mail-in" ballots. The GOP's idea is that all changes to the current and default election procedures be established BEFORE the election begins. The GOP regards changes to drop-box locations and ballot harvesting or poll watching rules, during the election itself, to be "Fraud". {Journalists have TWO ideas about "Fraud", which appear to depend on which party is doing what.}
Frankly the Democrat and Republican ideas about elections at all are very different. The GOP expects that elections go back and forth and that whichever party is, momentarily, in charge, the system as a whole will totter along pretty much unchanged. Conserved. The Democrats expect that each election is a step of Progress along the Arc of History, leaning forward and moving on and intentionally changing the "system as a whole" from its perpetually terrible state to a new and better built Tomorrow -- so that an election loss is a tragic step backwards.
The Democrats are the party with One Big Idea: Give us the Power and Shut Up.
exhelodrvr1 is correct. Youngkin has put his ideas out there. This is rhetorical BS from the former POTUS. I don't like Youngkin. I actively dislike Terry McC. My choice in the upcoming election is sadly easy. In Casa Docer, we're focusing on local elections. As a former Loudoun County resident, though, I hope Terry gets crushed. F his attack on parents engaging in their children's education.
if Youngkin is smart he would gird up his loins and wrinkle his brows and release an idea per day till day before election
how come most comments are treating this as national level discussion?
if Youngkin is smart he would gird up his loins and wrinkle his brows and cluck and lay an idea per day till day before election
how come most comments are treating this as national level discussion?
How many victories have come from an Obama endorsement? Isn’t he the kiss of political death?
Greg: "The Left, OTOH, knows their ideas are utter crap, and that they can't stand up to argument."
The Left/LLR-left OTOH, knows their ideas are utter crap, and that they can't stand up to argument.
FIFY
Obama’s a punk and always has been.
@BUMBLE BEE:
Farmer, You been here for the last three years? Attacks on Trump have been conspiracy obsessions? Put down the pipe, dude. Pay attention to Mr. Durham, try to learn.
I appreciate the condescension, but incredulity is not an argument. Nonetheless, to answer your question, yes, claims that Trump's victory was a result of Russian interference, that his presidency was illegitimate, or that he was a Russian asset doing the bidding of Putin were indeed "conspiracy-minded, borderline-obsessive histrionics."
The Never Trumpers and the Ever Trumpers share a common feature: the Trump they're responding to is a figment of their imaginations, a consequence of the partisan-pickled mindset.
J.Farmer: ust a moment of reflection. Those you call "Never Trumpers” cannot be responding to a figment of their imaginations. They have a four-year term of POTUS actions, decisions, policies, and governance style that they must acknowledge; nothing imaginary about any of it. They may choose to ignore or minimize the very clear, observable and measureable aspects of Trump as President and use their imaginations instead. But they cannot deny any of it.
Seems to me you do have a potentially arguable point about the “Ever Trumpers” and their imaginations. What I mean by that is: (1) they may be prone to imagining all the wondrous things Trump could have done coul dxaand achieved were he not opposed at every turn by rabid donkeys, and unjustly (and illegally) accused of …….(fill in the blank) …. by bad actors in the deep state; and (2), some seem to "Imagine” that he is virtually deity and as such invincible.
The Democrats and the NeverTrumpers, but I repeat myself, hate Trump because he's an apostate, being a former Democrat. Democrats can't believe anyone would want to leave their utopia, so when someone does, it must be because that someone has been seduced by the devil and is now an evil person who must be destroyed. Q.E.D.
"Ever Trumpers"--I have never met one in real life, but I live in Chicago. Around here Trump supporters recognize his faults and limitations, but viewed him as less destructive than the alternatives offered to him in both the 2016 and 2020 general elections. His post-2020 election antics have cost him, but he was never going to win Illinois anyway.
Having said all that, I note that Illinois is circling the drain, so don't pay any attention to anything any one from here tells you, including me. And don't believe anyone from here who tries to sell you Shinola. They don't know much.
Little commie barry wanna be Hawaiian is the most evil thing ever to still be in the White House running joe and the ho puppet strings FJB
@Farmer, I don't think you'd face condescension and incredulity if you didn't say incredible things. Sort of like Morgan Freeman calling us honkies racists if we didn't like paying more for worse healthcare coverage.
For instance the "Ever Trumpers" are responding to a Trump that is "a figment of their imaginations." Really? You keep trying to pass yourself off as someone who has a grasp on economics. Let me know the next time we have inflation as low and unemployment as low (especially black unemployment as low) as it was in 2019. Can you do that for us? It took the Democrats less than a year to take us from energy independence to people praying that Democrats are right about global warming, otherwise they might well freeze to death this winter.
People who contemplate Obama and McAuliffe, and would like to donate to Glenn Youngkin's campaign can do so here.
You can also donate to his running mate here. Yes, there are black Republicans. Winsome Sears is a former Marine so do not call her an Aunt Jemima or a "token" to her face.
And you can help us get rid of a Soros-funded AG by donating here. Every time I look at his campaign website I think of T-shirt I saw for sale: "Nothing scares me. I have three daughters."
@Terry Ott:
They have a four-year term of POTUS actions, decisions, policies, and governance style that they must acknowledge; nothing imaginary about any of it.
The problem is that those "POTUS actions, decisions, policies, and governance style" are most often interpreted in such a way as to confirm prior beliefs and current attitudes.
Consider the example of Bush and Obama. The Republican base loved Bush and hated Obama, who they considered a radical Leninist-Islamist-Kenyan-Anticolonialist. The Democratic base loved Obama and hate Bush, who they considered a theocratic fascist doing the bidding of the banking and oil industries. Yet, when you consider their respective "POTUS actions, decisions, policies, and governance style", there was far more continuity than discontinuity. Bush was a right-of-center neoliberal (ie compassionate conservative) and Obama was a left-of-center neoliberal.
@Amadeus 48:
"Ever Trumpers"--I have never met one in real life, but I live in Chicago. Around here Trump supporters recognize his faults and limitations, but viewed him as less destructive than the alternatives offered to him in both the 2016 and 2020 general elections.
I certainly don't deny that there are measured, reasonable critiques of Trump. The group I'm describing are not so much supporters as fans. It's this group Trump likely had in mind when he joked, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters."
The problem with defending Republicans "as less destructive than the alternatives" is that the Party can depend on you voting for them by default and thus can take you for granted. It's not all that dissimilar from the way in which Democrats treat the black vote.
How's your Martha's Vineyard mansion on the water doing with all this Climate Change Liar in Chief?? How about some illegals to add to your little town. There is a bunch coming up now, that would fit right in with you rich liars!!! You want them, you should GET them. Everytime this asshole shows his face, he is dividing us more into us and them. HE is the Great Divider. I wish he would stay in his mansion, or be put in prison where he belongs.
Tim said...
My fantasy is shock collars that engage when the person wearing them lies. Make every Democrat and every Republican wear them for all public appearances. And I mean put enough juice in it to knock them on their ass. Oh well, that will never happen.
10/24/21, 3:35 PM
I think we should put this to a vote. We demand the truth, and if you can't tell the truth, you don't belong there. I like this!! Every damn one of them.
Fuck Obama, Fuck Biden, Fuck Pelosi, Fuck Schumer, Fuck them all.
I’m not sure there are many:
“ever Trumpers”.
Probably the same in number, a small minority, as Never Trumpers.
The difference is Never Trumpers have an incredible huge presence in the media.
What sets Trump apart from the establishment GOP, much less Democrats, is he actually shows concern for the blue collar workers with his rhetoric and actions.
I’m disappointed at Trumps timid support against the Jan 6 narrative, and against the injustices being done to the political prisoners.
I’m a big Trump supporter, but I freely acknowledge his faults and errors. I’m amazed he got so much done, and survived the attacks by the deep state and the uniparty. I wish he had pardoned Assange, and gone full steam against crt early in his term. But, he trusted the gop establishment too much, and their advice after being elected.
For some reason I can't see the Founders wanting to encourage political candidates to run on their "ideas".
Most of today's political "ideas" are nothing more than power grabs, income redistribution or moves to decrease our freedoms.
OTOH Trump ran on getting government off our backs.
That's an "idea" many of us applauded.
wendybar said...
Tim said...
My fantasy is shock collars that engage when the person wearing them lies. Make every Democrat and every Republican wear them for all public appearances. And I mean put enough juice in it to knock them on their ass. Oh well, that will never happen.
10/24/21, 3:35 PM
I think we should put this to a vote. We demand the truth, and if you can't tell the truth, you don't belong there. I like this!! Every damn one of them.
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and give them the liars paradox to solve
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