It all sounds like stuff I read a quarter century ago in a completely popular, mainstream book — "Descartes' Error." So reason and emotion are not separate and distinct... oh, really?!
Enough sarcasm. Let me look at the comments to see how hard it was for readers to drag Trump into it. Because, you know, that always has to happen. Ah, the top-rated comment has Trump in it. And then there's Trump in this one:
This is the science that explains why we’re so polarized as a country, why it feels as if people are living in side-by-side realities. Fear is the emotional basis for many of our “rational” stances and decisions—for white Trump supporters, the fear of losing power and being “replaced.” This science is a mechanism by which we could admit when we’re wrong and start to come out of delusions—and that reconciliation is what has to happen for democracy to continue here....
Well, that would be a big, exciting change — if science would work as a mechanism to lead us out of our delusions. That itself is a delusion. The science seems to say delusion is who we are. And I love the way the commenter sees so clearly that the "white Trump supporters" are the deluded ones. But at least she thinks somehow those deplorables can find a way into the light of reason. I remember when they were in a basket and declared "irredeemable."
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37 comments:
'And I love the way the commenter sees so clearly that the "white Trump supporters" are the deluded ones. But at least she thinks somehow those deplorables can find a way into the light of reason.' We'll find a way to fix them.
Fear and power explain the Covid over-reaction.
Status seeking explains Brooks life.
‘But at least she thinks somehow those deplorables can find a way into the light of reason. I remember when they were in a basket and declared "irredeemable." ‘
So, baby steps/personal growth for her. Ain’t she the merciful one!
Trump supporters: "Leave me alone."
Democrats: "No."
Also Democrats: "We need to stop being so polarized."
The same David Brooks who was sexually attracted to the crease in Obama's pants? That David Brooks?
I think that disqualifies him as a rational person.
"And I love the way the commenter sees so clearly that the "white Trump supporters" are the deluded ones." I am not as hopeful as you that this improvement over seeing others as irredeemable will have any practical effect. I don't see evidence for it.
This is the elephant in the room, of course. It should be automatic for any thinking person to immediately turn that around and ask if they bear any trace of this, or at minimum, wonder if one could be accused of it by others and mentally prepare a defense. As you can see, this is only partially an intelligence issue, and relies much more on virtue - humility that one might be wrong, or a devotion to fair play that reflexively goes to the observer approach. How would you explain to a Martian that it was they and not thee who are the deluded, tribal, protective ones?
Was such objectivity ever much present in any group, or is that merely an historical fantasy of mine? I feel confident in saying it is at least no better now than in earlier times.
Man is a rationalizing animal. Who doesn't know that? The whole point of the scientific method, the judicial system, and academic discourse is to remove as much emotion as possible from serious matters.
what about black Trump supporters?
The collective white left lost their over that reality and reverted to segregationists over it.
the left are deluded into thinking stomping on free speech is a good idea.
This appears to be another chapter in the library of partisan wishful research.
Arming America is a discredited year 2000 book on gun culture by historian Michael A. Bellesiles. It was first praised to the heavens, then won the "prestigious" Bancroft Prize, then the author was discredited for fabricating records, and then he resigned from his university position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_America
Partisanship will blind you to reality. Avoid partisanship.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
The reaction to the reality of having things taken from you is not fear. It is rational to resist having your property, employment and rights taken from you. The deluded person is one who thinks a rational person should accept these things with joy.
And we know that what Brooks is really happy about is that they will soon be able to program people to think right.
When I saw the header that "Big exciting changes are afoot" and saw the name David Brooks just below it, I was- for a second- hoping the NYT had been sold and actual Big Changes were afoot. But no.
I made my comment on use of the word 'science' in an earlier post today. I'm further going to add I'd love to have the word 'science' removed from our language for a month. Let people figure out something useful to say instead.
Well, that would be a big, exciting change — if science would work as a mechanism to lead us out of our delusions. That itself is a delusion.
The gulf between Judgements of Fact & Judgements of Value seems to unbridgeable. We all want to believe that isn't the case, but, sadly, it seems to be the human condition.
Pop neuroscience is the latest millennial podcast phenom, Andrew Huberman. The latest with Sapolsky is very interesting. Who cares what David Brooks thinks?
https://hubermanlab.com/
"Reconciliation" is a nice way to say reparations.
Achilles at 10:00am,
Brandeis in Olmstead v. US (1928),
“The makers of our Constitution undertook to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness. They recognized the significance of man’s spiritual nature, of his feelings and of his intellect. They knew that only part of the pain, pleasure and satisfactions of life are to be found in material things. They sought to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions and their sensations. They conferred against the government, the right to be let alone—the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.”
The left will never leave us alone. Their aim is to subject us - permanently and constantly.
I really should have made this comment instead:
If David Brooks lost his job because it was designated to be a BIPOC position, if he lost all the trappings of wealth he accumulated through his privilege, if his attempts to have his voice heard through twitter and Youtube and facebook (because he no longer had a column in the NY times) banned because they didn't like his viewpoint, then I could see him having the moral authority to talk about delusions. OF course, then I would be blissfully unaware of his thoughts thereof because he would not have a platform to speak. However, I am sure he could come over to the Althouse blog and tell all of us deplorables how deplorable we are and we can have the Chuck and David show. But maybe I would give him a little more credit because at least he would have the courage of his convictions. (If he wasn't red-pilled by them that is.)
Latest findings: When test subjects started to read an article about experimenters showing test subjects a picture of a tomato, their progress was blocked by this notice: Already have an account? Log in. Keep reading with one of these options. Limited Articles. Unlimited Access..
I don't really care about David Brooks's ideas about neuroscience, but I am curious about what happened to the tomato.
“Irredeemable”: Ashli Babbitt, exhibit A
It's just Scott Adams "two movies on one screen".
And I love the way the commenter sees so clearly that the "white Trump supporters" are the deluded ones.
Someone who really understood the article would begin thinking about how they are the deluded ones.
" Fear is the emotional basis for many of our “rational” stances and decisions—for white Trump supporters, the fear of losing power and being “replaced.”
I'm am fearful of losing power. I'm fearful these ninnies will destroy the power grid. I'm also fearful of impoverishment (inflation, a moribund economy), lawlessness (lose of due process, loss of border controls), racism (a.k.a. CRT), conflict with China, …
I blame Denmark. The left sees Denmark as an enlightened country that takes care of its people and liberal, democratic socialism reigns. The right, innately, would view the monarchy, official religion, common language, shared ethnicity and history and understand that is what makes Denmark great. Social and culture uniformity thrump all else.
Denmark understands culture. One year old immigrants are taken out of segregated neighborhoods and taught Danish values and language. Immigrants are preferred to be vetted outside the country and bought in openly. Voting takes place over 2 weeks with limited mail in ballots, mainly to those out of the country at that time. No minimum wage.
Two incompatible world views for Americans apparently.
"Let me look at the comments to see how hard it was for readers to drag Trump into it. Because, you know, that always has to happen."
I just had a lifelong friend stay with me up at the lake for a week. He kept bringing Trump up, out of the blue. I ignored it for awhile but with "I'm afraid Trump will destroy our democracy" I finally responded; "I think Trump was a good President." I declined to engage further, however. I wanted to spend the week hiking, canoeing, and rock collecting, not talking politics.
Trump really does live in these people's heads. I don't understand why.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
You can just as well stop after the first 3 words.
Biological evolutionists, of whom I’ve known a few,
Think rape of women is biologically justified
As long as they’re in on it too.
The Yerkes guys at Emory
“A penis is not a fist, the director told me,”
could not stop masturbating over this panoply.
Bonobo on the brain.
If they also threw poo at each other
at faculty meetings,
I might believe him too.
Sorry for the crappy slant rhymes.
Comments on that article are awesome.
To quote Mr Feynman, "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts."
Ann Althouse said...
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
You can just as well stop after the first 3 words.
The way I interpret you point is that reason is impossible. The next step is everything is emotion. I am not sure how much time you have spent on how the brain creates neural pathways and studies on the frontal lobe but in the end it all boils down to all decisions and feelings boiling down to a similar process.
The discussion becomes semantic at that point. Everything is just words words words if that is how you want it.
Then the only thing that changes is the amount of effort you put into reaching your current position.
That is how 3 words becomes 13.
Solipsism provides the only information about the universe available. As Heinlein said "Sometimes everyone else goes away, but I'm always here." It still takes at least one behaviorist to evoke a response, one observer to see which slit the photon enters. From that we create the illusions. The problem is that it's risky to make this assumption. We can't jump off a cliff because the universe we see might be real.
I said upthread (12:00pm) that I don't understand why Trump lives in these people's heads. I do have a theory however, and I think it does relate to 'power'.
My friend's source of "news" is the mainstream media. He's a walking, talking NPR station. He doesn't make the effort to access anything else. If you talk to him about specific subjects, you might actually think he's conservative. He thinks the world is running out of fossil fuels and he's a big believer in global warming, but if you ask him about plans to replace the automobile fleet with electric cars in a decade he's rational enough to know that's a pipe dream. Just one example.
Now, my friend doesn't seek to acquire or hold onto "power". He's a 71 year old guy living quietly in a modest house out in the country. He doesn't have access to "power" nor does he seek it. His biggest aspiration is to be left alone. But the people who feed him the news that he digests uncritically; they're after power. Its why I view the left wing media as an existential threat.
Anyway, that's my theory as to why so many people are obsessed with Trump. They've been told to be.
Original Mike, your aged friend may not seek power directly for himself, but if he's wanting to have some law or edict put into effect, he's wanting to impose his desires on others by force.
When I saw big news and David Brooks in the same sentence, I assumed he was coming out as a transgender- which gender I don't know.
Man I love how boring 2021 has been so far.
Gahrie: "Man I love how boring 2021 has been so far."
Dont forget the no mean tweets and all the "Muh Normz" restored!
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