A wreck is not a total wreck but a thing that can itself be wrecked.
October 11, 2020
"Fifty years ago, this wreck must have been a thing of wonder. Today, what’s left is tragic."
"Trawlers dragging nets for fish and scallops have bulldozed everything. Cannon have been dragged 300 metres away. If trawlers can throw two-ton guns around like matchsticks, then the wooden hull and small finds have no chance. Archaeologists call deep-sea wrecks time-capsules. This wreck looks like a war zone. 'Wrecks should be used as museums for memory and education. In this case, the future’s chances of bearing witness to the horrors of the slave trade are fading fast. It’s a double tragedy.'"
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
52 comments:
I realize this doesn’t fit the current fashion but it’s not somehow extra tragic because it involved the African slave trade. One story isn’t more
important than another.
Think of it as a monument to slavery.
Wait. Isn’t this destruction by BLM/DNC decree? I mean, after all, HISTORY & SLAVERY!!
(1) "This wreck looks like a war zone. 'Wrecks should be used as museums for memory and education.'"
I wonder how he feels about Confederate statues?
(2) "In this case, the future’s chances of bearing witness to the horrors of the slave trade are fading fast."
Little to worry about on that score. As long as Islam exists, the horrors of the slave trade will be visible for all to see. If only the left would be willing to see!
Nature itself will obliterate it over time. See the Titanic.
Preserve it all in digital format if you can, but the universe doesn't care about woke history preservation lamentations.
Wrecks were common. Life was short, harsh, brutal and unpredictable. Slavery existed because it was on a spectrum of misery that made it seem preferable to something else. Human nature never changes. Sorry.
I like articles in which the headline is contradicted by the first or second sentence of the article.
"The main slave routes [including shipping] in Africa during the Middle Ages.". But the slavers were Arabs, and they're hardly worth mentioning.
If the ship is worth preserving, 300 meters doesn't seem like too great a depth for a submersible to dive, and to retrieve historic items for preservation. The preservation of old shipwrecks has a long history, and if this one is worth preserving, quit kvetching and start recovering it.
Of course over the centuries trawling will damage things on the bottom of the sea. It isn't like the trawlers knew they were damaging a shipwreck. Bringing up artifacts of value indeed might be an incentive to continue trawling there, and otherwise how would the preservationist even know about this wreck?
Sounds like sour grapes to me. This guy who should be out there salvaging is just whining.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust
It's all just very problematic
You wreckon?
I'm struck by the location of the wreck. I thought all British shave ships went to the Caribbean or North America. Wasn't this ship--50 miles off Land's End in England a bit off course? Was the captain a sort of early day Wrong Way Corrigan?
Or did in fact the English bring slaves to their own country?
This is what happens to history now, quit griping about it.
So it wasn't a wreck wreck until recently.
The stats are reasonable (12 mill over 400 years--some wackoes argue for 60 mill and more) but the "justice for my people" line should embarrass that guy.
Narr
But that's what academe has sunk to
Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.
And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000. That’s right: a tiny percentage.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/how-many-slaves-landed-in-the-us/
The Nobel Peace Prize was just awarded to the World Food Program and here are these fishermen doing their part to put food in people's mouths and yet somehow what's important here is that a shipwreck from hundreds of years ago isn't being preserved. Is this answer here that we all stop eating fish and scallops?
I don't really mean to make light of this. I certainly wouldn't appreciate trawlers disturbing the USS Arizona, for example, but on the other hand I don't think that the story that needs to be told depends on seeing the remains of a ship sitting on the bottom of the sea. I think the documentation pulled from the Company's records is far more powerful.
Skeptical Voter said...
I'm struck by the location of the wreck. I thought all British shave ships went to the Caribbean or North America. Wasn't this ship--50 miles off Land's End in England a bit off course? Was the captain a sort of early day Wrong Way Corrigan?
Or did in fact the English bring slaves to their own country?
Nothing in the article to indicate that it was a slave ship full of African slaves.
Let’s translate this Guardian article: “Someone (not us!) ought to get together with someone else (still not us!) to do something about this! Because otherwise no one would be aware that slavery was bad and the conditions on slave ships appalling. And you’re all a bunch of worthless poops.”
As long as the trawlers fly BLM/Anitfa flags, it's all good. If there's anything worse than a statue of a slave-owner, its got to be a slave ship. Let the destruction proceed!
Unknown said...
This is what happens to history now, quit griping about it.
10/11/20, 11:03 AM
THIS!!!
Did you notice the Guardian's jarring oath of bias in a fundraising appeal at the bottom of the article?
America faces an epic choice ...
... in the coming weeks, and the results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last four years, much of what the Guardian holds dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth.
The country is at a crossroads. The Supreme Court hangs in the balance – and with it, the future of abortion and voting rights, healthcare, climate policy and much more. Science is in a battle with conjecture and instinct to determine policy in the middle of a pandemic. At the same time, the US is reckoning with centuries of racial injustice – as the White House stokes division along racial lines. At a time like this, an independent news organization that fights for truth and holds power to account is not just optional. It is essential.
Like many news organizations, the Guardian has been significantly impacted by the pandemic. We rely to an ever greater extent on our readers, both for the moral force to continue doing journalism at a time like this and for the financial strength to facilitate that reporting.
You’ve read more than 35 articles in the last year. We believe every one of us deserves equal access to fact-based news and analysis. We’ve decided to keep Guardian journalism free for all readers, regardless of where they live or what they can afford to pay. This is made possible thanks to the support we receive from readers across America in all 50 states.
As our business model comes under even greater pressure, we’d love your help so that we can carry on our essential work. If you can, support the Guardian from as little as $1 – and it only takes a minute. Thank you. Support The Guardian
When you see the words "bearing witness," stop reading. That perfectly good phrase has now been reduced to a few political statements
I blame Trump.
Western media is obsessed with blacks to an embarrassing degree. Every day - after they've decided how to report Orange Man Bad for that day - they find some new angle to hand-wring and rend garments over the poor, poor black people. Boohoohoo!
What other country or society falls all over itself to worship at the feet of 10% of it?
Newsflash. Not the world's oldest slave ship.
Skeptical Voter said...
I'm struck by the location of the wreck. I thought all British shave ships went to the Caribbean or North America. Wasn't this ship--50 miles off Land's End in England a bit off course?
i don't know (i'm not a sailor); but the quickest (ONLY) way to get from Africa to the americas at certain times of the year might very well be:
coast north up past the golf stream.... Turn Left
You have to go with the winds, and the currents. Most Importantly, you HAVE TO have wind (stay out of the Horse Latitudes
But we should ask a Sailor....
Dr K? did you ever sail the Atlantic?
"Fifty years ago, this wreck must have been a thing of wonder. Today, what’s left is tragic. Trawlers dragging nets for fish and scallops have bulldozed everything."
Trawling for fish and scallops started fifty years ago? I'll bet that's not right.
Sooo...what do they want us to do about it?
Not to diminish the hoorors of the slave trade but what about the Australian convict ships?
Every bit as horrible as the Africa-America's route. Prisoners confined and chained in much the same manner but
With as much as 6 additional months chained like this on prison hulks on the Thames
A much, much, longer passage
The ship captain had of the slave ship had an incentive to keep the Africans alive. If dead he didn't get paid.
The English captain had no incentive to keep prisoners alive. If dead, he saved the cost of feeding them.
This was 18th & early 19th centuries.
Prior to about 1780 the same applied to convicts transported to North America (now us) only difference was a shorter voyage.
There are a number of books on this. Barbara Tuchman's is pretty readable.
The "prison hulks" where convicts were warehoused
prior to transportation figure in some novels of the time. Dicken's Great Expectations is one that comes to mind.
John Henry
Skeptical Voter said...
Or did in fact the English bring slaves to their own country?
Yes, but mainly Scots to work the coal mines. In the 1700s
John Henry
Wince said...
what the Guardian holds dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth.
Wow! "democracy"? Really Gaurdian?
When was the last time you agitated for the removal of the queen? Oh, never? Some freedom of the press and freedom of speech you have. Argue for abolishing the monarchy and you'll get a govt "d-notice" or worse.
What kind of "democracy" does England have where all power is in the hands of a queen? Nothing parliament does has any effect unless the queen "assents" She always does. But could choose not to at any moment. So parliament never passes anything she won't like.
Some "democracy" how about clean your own house first.
And going back to a thread from lst week, why is democracy desirable, anyway?
F**k you Guardian. We can choose our own govt.
John Henry
As long as we have the internets to tell us how bad _____ was, we don't need no stinking monuments.
Karma
Feeding people nutritious fish is much less important than providing work experience for poor underprivileged archaeologists.
But there IS a slave trade today - just look on the Thai fishing ships. We don't have to "remember" as it is still happening.
I am mighty sick of slavery being cast as a unique American problem instead of a global, species wide issue.
It could be part of a triangular trade route. Slaves from Africa to the Caribbean, rum and sugar from the Caribbean to England, English gold to pay for slaves in Africa. Rinse and repeat.
The left and Islam are sister fascist systems. The left is a secular fascism while Islam is a religious fascism. Both require everyone to belong and obey the the state/God and woe until those who don't. Those who aren't part of the system must be made to be part of the system, whether they want to or not.
So much winning
North of the One writes that there is nothing in the article to indicate the ship was full of African slaves.
Au contraire mon cher; the Guardian and other lefty papers are masters at eliding the actual truth to produce purported "facts". They use the term "burial ground" and the ship's final voyage--which of ended not too far west of Land's End. Well, where is or was the slave's "burial ground". In actual fact most probably on the Middle Passage somewhere in the South Atlantic. And despite what the Guardian would have you believe, the trawlers are not disturbing a "burial ground" off the tip of England.
"A Fistful of Shells" is the title of a recent book on the slave trade on the West Coast of Africa. The Portuguese started the trade. Dutch and French traders also got in on the action. The English came later, but came with a vengeance. Liverpool was the biggest participant in the slave trade. More than 5,000 slave trading voyages originated in Liverpool. The port of Bristol was not far behind.
The shells referred to in the title of the book were cowrie shells, which were used as currency in the Gambia, Senegal, and what's now Nigeria. Not all slaves went across the Atlantic---there was a healthy slave trade with Arab traders who took the slaves to Egypt and the Middle East.
But the triangular trade was as follows; sail from Liverpool with a cargo of manufactured goods--cloth, iron bars, copper bars and such were all eventually used as currency in West Africa; trade the goods for slaves. Take them across the Middle Passage to either Brazil, the Caribbean or (a small percentage) to North America. Trade the slaves for sugar or rum, and then sail back to England. Rinse and repeat. Of such were many English fortunes built.
Too many white girls from next door in the Olympics... The Guardian can't help but indulge liberal license to treat its special and peculiar interests from the Twilight fringe to the black hole... black whore h/t NAACP.
Did you notice the Guardian's jarring oath of bias in a fundraising appeal at the bottom of the article?
Yes, em-pathetic appeals are progressive fare in politics, social organizations, corporate marketing that influence career development, economic opportunity, and academic rigor.
You know the Roman Colosseum must have been fantastic when it was built.
But people have got to live and eat. Thus over the centuries the Colosseum was stripped of it's history, beauty, and wealth. People have got to eat.
Those trawlers were filled with people who have to earn a living. And a old rotten ship many fathoms deep are not something they cared about... cause their families come first. Got to eat.
The world's oldest black slave ship is certainly an Arab Dhow. Chinese slaves, Mongol slaves, Greek slaves, Phoenician slaves, Viking slaves?, Persian slaves?
My bet for oldest slave ship likely is some Egyptian boat in the Red sea. 4,000 BCE
why do liberals try to pretend that slavery started with some Englishman off Nigeria
FWIW, at the same time that black slaves were arriving in the colonies, 2.5 million Europeans living near the sea, were snatched from their homes by Africans, e.g. Barbary pirates. The cause of the first US foreign war. Jefferson 1801
also consider the white slaves taken from Spain in the 700 years of Moorish rule, plus Sicily over 400 years, the Holy Land, the Balkans and the Eastern Roman Empire. see the sack of Constantinople
This seems like a typical example of modern "journalism", where (as SV pointed out) narratives are maintained by the careful elision of inconvenient facts. If you read the article with anything other than the most credulous point of view, all sorts of unanswered questions are raised, like:
What is the name of this ship?
How was the wreck located?
How was the wreck identified?
Who was on it when it was wrecked?
Would a merchant ship have carried so many cannon?
How intact would a 340-year-old wreck be, trawling or no trawling?
My guess at the real story: the wreck may in fact be that of a Royal African Company ship; given its position, it was returning to England from the New World with a cargo of New World rum, molasses, and no slaves at all on board when it went down, though presumably it is likely some died during the earlier Middle Passage portion of its voyage.
"I am mighty sick of slavery being cast as a unique American problem"
Well, in this case, I think it's the UK left trying to make sure the UK feels as bad as possible about the past. If Americans feel bad, that's just gravy.
To some people, the world must be a museum.
Hello? It was a slave ship. Full of evil slavers. why would we want to preserve *their* ship? Let it rot under the ocean. And no, we don't need the slaves ships at the bottom of the ocean to remind us of slavery. We have SJW's and the Democrat Politicians who do that EVERY DAY.
BTW, why don't the Muslims in North Africa feel bad for the Barbary Pirates and almost 200 years of taking Europeans (and Africans) slaves? How come I don't see any guilt from the Jewish Community over their involvement in Slavery and the Slave Trade. Hell, you had David Brooks and Ginsberg talking about what a great guy Judah Benjamin was. Or what about the Turks? 300 years of taking white people in the Balkans and making them into slave soldiers. Or the Kharzas of the Crimea who specialized in slave raids in the Ukraine. This went on all the till almost 1800.
You need to wonder what REALLY behind all this SJW/NYT/BLM fake white guilt. It sure isn't morality.
At the time the US was founded, 1776, no nation had banned slavery, and no nation except this one fought a civil war to free its slaves and ban slavery, much less one which sacrificed hundreds of thousands of its citizens to do so.
With 48 cannon in 1680 and a crew of 70 they would have been some busy bees. I don't think they know exactly what they've found.
But we should ask a Sailor....
Dr K? did you ever sail the Atlantic?
Nope. I was very impressed by the Columbus Expedition by S E Morrison and crew. I have his books on Columbus and the others on other explorers.
"Wrecks should be used as museums for memory and education"
The museum directors would just sell off the pieces to millionaires, thus exploiting blacks even more.
Thoughtless mobs ransacked Madison not long ago, but the Grauniad doesn't grieve for the destruction there.
Althouse : “A wreck is not a total wreck but a thing that can itself be wrecked. “
An echo of the Bard :
The worst is not, so long as we can say “this is the worst”
Rabel said...
"With 48 cannon in 1680 and a crew of 70 they would have been some busy bees. I don't think they know exactly what they've found."
That struck me too. That's a lot of cannon for a merchantman. Sounds more like a warship. A lost ship from the Spanish?
North America was at the northern edge of the European traffic in slaves, as by far the largest demand for slaves was for working sugar plantations in warmer climates than exist in North America.
But, if we're talking about slavery in the United States, the story is not complete without at least acknowledging that more than a few Native American tribes acquired black slaves by trading with slave-owning southerners and, later, with the Confederacy. The Reconstruction-era federal Freedman's Bureau had a substantial task in doing so. Nor is there any indication that the tribes were in any way kinder or gentler slave owners.
Post a Comment