August 30, 2020

Can you guess from this NYT headline whether a person of the right shot a person of the left or a person of the left shot a person of the right?

Here's the headline this morning: "Deadly Shooting in Portland After Pro-Trump Ralliers Clash With Protesters/A caravan of supporters of President Trump drove through downtown Portland, which has seen nightly protests against police violence and racial injustice. One person was shot and killed in the conflicts that erupted."

First sentence of the article: "A man was shot and killed Saturday as a large group of supporters of President Trump traveled in a caravan through downtown Portland, Ore., which has seen nightly protests for three consecutive months." No answer yet.

Next 2 paragraphs:
The pro-Trump rally drew hundreds of trucks full of supporters into the city. At times, Trump supporters and counterprotesters clashed on the streets, with people shooting paintball guns from the beds of pickup trucks and protesters throwing objects back at them.

A video that purports to be of the shooting, taken from the far side of the street, showed a small group of people in the road outside what appears to be a parking garage. Gunfire erupts, and a man collapses in the street.
There isn't even a person holding a gun — just "Gunfire erupts." A classic example of portraying violence as if it is a disembodied entity.

Finally, in paragraph 4, we find out about the man:
The man who was shot and killed was wearing a hat with the insignia of Patriot Prayer, a far-right group based in Portland that has clashed with protesters in the past.
ADDED: Via Instapundit, you can hear in this video "Hey! Hey, we got one right here! We got a Trumper right here!" — spoken right before the 2 gunshots:

117 comments:

Jeff Weimer said...

In any case, they're trying to blame the right for the shooting; that's obvious.

If it were a lefty who was shot, the article would be in far more active voice and wouldn't hesitate to place blame.

Don said...

Trying to avoid inciting open warfare.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Ringo was right... Back Off Boogaloo!

Jeff Vader said...

As the headline did not scream, “fascist trump supporter kills peaceful protester,” it was quite obvious who got shot

Ralph L said...

An obvious suicide.

pious agnostic said...

So, a mostly-peaceful clash, huh?

Masscon said...

Must protect our precious peaceful protesters, on the side of the angels, against far-right radicals invading the tree-lined utopia of downtown Portland where peace and harmony reign supreme.

Oso Negro said...

Yep. Here we are in a violence cascade. Each week will see escalation, until..... what? What's the endgame here? The dissolution of the United States? The re-election of Donald Trump? The election of Joe Biden? Who will feel satisfied when this occurs? George Soros? The Chinese? The Clintons?

BamaBadgOR said...

I wish more commentators were doing this type of analysis. Thank you.

Browndog said...

Only one side attacks the other,

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

When liberals do something bad it becomes 'both sides do it'.

EVERY.SINGLE. TIME.

If your inclined to say Trump supporters shouldn't have been there, or they went looking for trouble and found it, you've bought into the liberal narrative, and have resigned yourself to live under their thumb.

Amadeus 48 said...

You could see this coming. Bleeding Kansas? Batty Portland.

This is why you should clamp down on this stuff early. When law officers are being blinded by lasers, things have already gone too far, and that was five weeks ago. It should have been shut down weeks before that. Nightly protests that routinely turn violent are not peaceful assemblies.

RNB said...

My honest answer? I thought a "peaceful protestor" (Antifa) had been shot.

stevew said...

Similar to the way they identify public figures that are accused of crimes and misbehavior. If the accused is a Republican then "R-State" follows their name, usually in every reference. If the accused is a Democrat the party affiliation is never mentioned. The irony of that is once you know this then you know the person is a Democrat if their political party is not noted.

It would be kind to say that these journalists that don't dig up the details of who is committing the looting and violence are inexperienced, but it would also be wrong. Some may be but the practice is so widespread I can only conclude that they are colluding by burying and hiding this information.

rehajm said...

I read StephanFearby's post from last night and couldn't believe it. They aren't even trying anymore...

Along with the malaise and fear this morning is a twinge of hope. A groundswell of collective recognition we're being played...and rejection, as confirmed by the polling data...that data being the obvious lack of polling, which is more valuable and more telling than the polls themselves.

Jersey Fled said...

Key phrase was "gunfire erupts".

Easy. What do I win?

tim in vermont said...

It seems like a lot of these violent thugs are schoolteachers with too much time on their hands with COVID. It’s like when the apprentices had twelve days off for Christmas in London and they were agitated into rioting against Charles I and eventually his head got chopped off.

Lem said...

I'm just glad it wasn't a POC shot by the police.

We seem ok with every other kind of shooting but that one, the POC shot by police.

I have Covid-19 running out of people to infect before the rioters run out of steam and disconnect.

tim in vermont said...

“Riots broke out” is another phrase that hides the agency behind them.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

It took you six paragraphs.

Amadeus 48 said...

This appears to be the style book for this story. The Chicago Tribune has a story bylined Gillian Flaccus that follows the same pattern. I think they are written in a press pool maybe AP and then distributed for rags to rewrite. The Trib artcle does not say it is from a press service.

The is no news in Izvestia and there is no truth in Pravda.

Don B. said...

Haha. The headline is a real stumper, all right!

Browndog said...

Jesse Kelly

The Leftist culture machine has spent months shaming you for going to work. Shaming you for not hating cops.

Don’t let them shame you for wanting to fight back and cheering when others do so.


This.

Fernandinande said...

Sailer often mentions how nyt scribblers put the information which they wish weren't true at the end of the articles, long after they've implied the opposite, like associating a shooting with Trump: "Deadly Shooting in Portland After Pro-Trump Ralliers..."

++

Also Sailer: "As I’ve been pointing out for some time, more than a few of our New Idols of Utmost Diversity, male-to-female trans folks, tend to be nasty sons-of-a-gun. Not surprisingly, therefore, a wildly disproportionate percentage of Antifa appear to be trans."

"Surprise, Surprise! Vicky Osterweil, Author of In Defense of Looting, Used to be Willie Osterweil"

Some people here commented on its looks...

tim in vermont said...

"It took you six paragraphs.”

Because the answer was obvious to anybody who reads the NYT critically. It’s only the losers who believe every word out of that rag that don’t get it. Unless you think the job of the New York Times is to joke with its readers by displaying such obvious bias that their subscribers will know they must be kidding. It’s a take, I guess.

Browndog said...

Lem said...

I'm just glad it wasn't a POC shot by the police.


Antifa falsely said a fascist killed a black person tonight, which riled up their people to violence.

mezzrow said...

The headline at Zero Hedge.

'I'm Not Sad That A Fu*king Fascist Died Tonight': Left-Wing Portland Protesters Celebrate Murder Of Trump Supporter

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/man-shot-dead-portland-amid-violent-protest-camouflage-gear-thin-blue-line-patch-found

Compare and contrast. The folks who write at ZH probably studied with the folks from Pravda and Izvestia. If there was any room for humor, no matter how desiccated, it would slot in right here. I see no room for humor this morning, however.

Time for a walk.

Amadeus 48 said...

Also the Trib article talks about the dark vision that Trump painted of America’s future—a sure marker of propaganda since the RNC was the most uplifting gush of positive, can-do optimism about America’s future you could imagine. The Trib, or whoever wrote this article, would probably report Lincoln’s second inaugural like this:

Mr Lincoln invoked God’s judgment against the United States, while noting both the economic cost of war and shamelessly and without evidence charging that unspecified “Interests” had promoted the war. He then bragged about the success of his armies notwithstanding his failure to end the war for over four years. He concluded by promising unending subsidies for the army and its dependents.

Today’s newspapers are Full of propaganda from front to back.

Steve said...

I knew immediately. As with graft and crime by politicians if REPUBLICAN isn’t proclaimed in the headline, it’s always a Democrat.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Democrat Left has been violently rioting, looting and burning cities for 3 months. It is funded and orchestrated.

So far, the right has shown heroic restraint. I haven't seen mobs of #MAGA hat wearing thugs burning down black-owned businesses and communities, have you?

Chris said...

This must have been when the peaceful protests intensified.

Curious George said...

You thinks that bad, read this Op-Ed from Jamelle Bouie in the NYTs. Every single fact that contradicts his narrative is either omitted, or phrased in a way to temper it. Every single one.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/opinion/sunday/kenosha-kyle-rittenhouse-trump.html

info@ysb said...

Watch the video of the shooting. The victim was identified as a "Trumper" and then shot. Chilling.

tim maguire said...

“Name That Party!”

We know from the headline that a left-wing person shot and killed someone. We can surmise that the victim is right-wing, but we don’t know for sure until they give us enough facts to know it wasn’t an accident.

Dan said...

What I note is the reference to the victim as "far right", as if that makes it ok. I haven't noticed much reference to the daily "mostly peaceful" protesters as "far left".

stlcdr said...

Ha! I read the same article and that is precisely the question I had in my mind!

Isn’t that sad? That someone has been killed: how can political points be gained from this?

Rory said...

"I haven't seen mobs of #MAGA hat wearing thugs burning down black-owned businesses and communities, have you?"

I think that most people realize race is actually a tiny part of this.

traditionalguy said...

The President visits disaster areas, so he is coming to burned out Kenosha. Will he wear a MAGA hat in public. If so, the Soros paid Guerrilla forces will attempt an assassination to win the Grand Global Communist Award. But it takes several days to get them to Wisconsin by airline last minute tickets. At least that uses up their slush funds of stolen money. So if he survives, Trump wins again.

chickelit said...

Is anyone in custody for the shooting or is this another case of letting perps go on one side or worse - letting the left hide and protect killers.

Laslo Spatula said...

It sounds like you can't let the rioters shoot first.

Extrapolate and calibrate.

I am Laslo.

tom said...

Huh. Showing up in someone else's hood, flashing guns and talking shit isn't such a genius move. Who knew?

Sebastian said...

"Can you guess from this NYT headline"

Yes, we can.

They are on the side of violence and destruction. They will propagate prog propaganda. It follows that ---.

Question: does anyone still need to read the NYT?

Matt Sablan said...

"A man was shot."

This... this should not be your lede. If you can't tell him who shot who, you failed in your journalism. Go do it again.

Matt Sablan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Temujin said...

Like I said in my comment in the post below- the NY Times has been suppressing news that reflects badly on the Left for over 100 years. It is what they do.

They are not THE paper of record. They are Stalin's paper of record.

Matt Sablan said...

I'm reading Andy Ngo's reporting of the ghoulish glee taken in shooting the guy. Was the guy armed? Seeing as the report doesn't say he was, I'm guessing no.

This is what would have happened to the kid in Kenosha if he hadn't been armed.

tim in vermont said...

"Huh. Showing up in someone else's hood, flashing guns and talking shit isn't such a genius move. Who knew?”

Neither is arson and attacking a guy with a gun, I am sure “who knew?” was your take on that shooting too.

Roughcoat said...

I hope the violent actions of BLM/antifa insurrectionists have finally put paid to the notion, somewhat smugly expressed in the past by many conservatives (including commenters to this blog), that our side would easily kick ass in an armed confrontations and conflict with leftist paramilitaries. This notion always filled me with disquiet when I heard it expressed. First, it violates a basic rule of strategy, that being to never underestimate your enemy. Second, it assumes facts not in evidence, namely that because our side is pro-Second amendment (and all that entails) we are or will be, ipso facto, superior in the realm of armed conflict to the supposedly "soft" leftists who are anti-Second Amendment (and all THAT entails). This is a mistake. History shows the that left is plenty capable and competent when it comes to the use of firearms and other weaponry, and that they are not loath to use them to the maximum degree. This needs to be recognized, and we need to prepare for it accordingly. We've got to stop underestimating the enemy and feeling a smug sense of martial superiority over him. We're in for a real gunfight, people.

Matt Sablan said...

"As the headline did not scream, “fascist trump supporter kills peaceful protester,” it was quite obvious who got shot"

-- Sad but true; much like if a party is NOT listed in a corruption story's headline/lede, I assume Democrat, and am right upwards of 80 to 90 percent of the time. (Deleted the previous comment because I left out a not.)

Matt Sablan said...

At this point, I am seriously considering whether I have made a mistake to choose not to be armed because I haven't obtained the proper training, and what steps I may need to take for the proper training. Like, I've been thinking that's a bit overly drawn out, but...

I'm a moderate Republicanish person who is no friend of Trump. But, I'm pretty sure that guy would have shot me just as easily for that position.

Fernandinande said...

NPR just now said that Trump supporters clashed with BLM protestors ... blah blah blah... and a "protestor" was shot and killed.

ga6 said...

The MSM is all the same. At noon yesterday, a Saturday, the City of Chicago had recorded 16 persons shot, 4 dead in a 24 hour period. The Chicago Tribune web site had no mention of the home own stats but did have a breathless, breaking news headline: "The Handcuffs had been removed from Jake" (I paraphrased for emphasis.)

Browndog said...

Like I said, NYT/WAPO/etc, do not have their own reporters covering these events. They steal the hard work of those risking their personal safety, dress it up as their own, then pretend they're reporting the news.

hawkeyedjb said...

"Peaceful protesters forced to shoot violent Trump supporter."

Clues? said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mandrewa said...

Trump supporter executed walking down the street
in Portland, BLM celebrates and cheers the killing

Drago said...

Alternate headline: Trump supporter damages peaceful leftwing protester's property by deforming and then keeping stolen lead object.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

It’s time to go fully automatic

Clyde said...

I didn’t think the civil war would start until after the election. Apparently it’s the September thing for your 2020 bingo card.

Michael K said...

The irony of that is once you know this then you know the person is a Democrat if their political party is not noted.

The same, of course, applies to race. First names are usually an indicator if given.

As a last resort, photos although the recent trend is to not show photos.

mockturtle said...

"a far-right group based in Portland that has clashed with protesters in the past".

The following translations are necessary:

'Far-right'= anyone not actively involved with Antifa.
'Clashed with protesters'= tried to stop their city from being destroyed.

Mike Sylwester said...

NPR just now said that Trump supporters clashed with BLM protestors

NPR should have said that Trump supporters clashed with Biden supporters.

Mike Sylwester said...

NPR just now said that Trump supporters clashed with BLM protestors

NPR should have said that Trump supporters clashed with Biden supporters.

John henry said...

Michael Reinoehl

Say his name

Tentatively identified as the shooter

John Henry

walter said...

GUN VIOLENCE!

Jupiter said...

How come the white people are concerned about BLM, when there is all this white-on-white violence in Portland?

Curious George said...

I watched the video a number of times. The shooter was caught on the tape, you can see the smoke from the gunshots. The victim is the guy in the dark top and white pants, who takes a few steps after the shots and then collapses. It appears to me that the shooter might be the guy on the skateboard, who comes up behind him. He then starts to walk slowly away across the street, only to turn back after the cars passes him and stops, to retrieve his skateboard. He then walks back across the street covering his face.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

If there is or is likely to be riot and mayhem, the wise move is away from.

rehajm said...

Did they catch the murderers? Wrapped up first degree murder charges by lunch?

Browndog said...

Curious George said...

I watched the video a number of times. The shooter was caught on the tape, you can see the smoke from the gunshots.


The smoke you think you saw was pepper spray. There is video, enhanced video, and other video taken by live streams that have not been made public yet.

I'd caution against describing what happened as fact for a few days until all the video is compiled and the facts become unambiguous.

wildswan said...

Biden Bullies Shoot Suburbanite

rcocean said...

I'm getting so damn tired of the phrase "Violence erupts" Or "Protesters clashed" when the left ATTACKS the Right.

This also happened in 2016, where Antifa would attack Trump supporters and reporters would write it as "Pro and Anti-Trump supporters clash". In one case, in San Jose Calf, Antifa vivaciously attacked some Trump supporters as they left a Trump rally. These Trump supporters were just tying to leave and go home. But the Press reported it as "violence erupts" and "The two sides clashed".

Later these San Jose Trump supporters sued the city of San Jose for failing to protect them from Antifa Violence and got a payout.

rcocean said...

It should be noted that of the 3 Antifa rioters killed/wounded in Kenosha, all three were criminals with a record of violence. Maybe that's why the NYT/WaPo aren't looking too closely at WHO the "Peaceful Protesters" are OR providing their readers with any details.

Narr said...

NPR has been all . . . NPR with the obfuscatory language.

Armed people who show up to support BoweL Movement, for whatever reasons, are protesters.

Armed people who show up to oppose BoweL Movement, for whatever reasons, are vigilantes.

Narr
As for 'showing up in other people's 'hood,' there seems to be a lot of that going around


rcocean said...

BTW, when Rittenhouse was retreating to the Police to surrender himself, you can hear at 4-5 gunshots. Obviously Antifa Shooting at Rittenhouse trying to kill him before he could surrender. Why isn't anyone talking about THAT?

And this video is horrific. Out right murder being covered up by the NYT.

mikesixes said...

You can always guess the right-left orientation of crime victims or perps in the NYT. If the perp is a lefty, his political leanings aren't mentioned until several paragraphs down. If the perp is a right winger, that's in the headline. With victims it's the other way around. The headline didn't say "Peaceful protester killed by white supremacist" so you know the vic was a righty and the shooter is a lefty.

Yancey Ward said...

I could have read that, Althouse, and told you instantly who got shot and who did the shooting. I suspect you could, too.

Bill R said...

Violence erupts, shots ring out, fighting occurs, or the classic "Israeli bus explodes"

Ray - SoCal said...

The shooting of a Trump supporter is terrifying, especially with the reaction of Antifa.

Browndog said...

New video. Supports they were hunting for Trumpers, and was executed

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

rcocean said...

It should be noted that of the 3 Antifa rioters killed/wounded in Kenosha, all three were criminals with a record of violence. Maybe that's why the NYT/WaPo aren't looking too closely at WHO the "Peaceful Protesters" are OR providing their readers with any details.

Well, they aren't the best martyr material are they?

Gospace said...

meme1
meme2
meme 3
meme 4
meme 5
meme 6
meme 7

A small sampling of photomemes from Kenosha. Each and every one effective in messaging- especially so if you've read the real news, not the New York Times.

The left doesn't meme effectively- they can't. What kind of memes could they generate from- "There's Trump supporter! Shoot him!" that would generate support from the undecided? Of course,at this point, I don't actually believe there are any undecideds- just people who won't tell pollsters who their voting for.

Biden photomemes, as in memes about him, not for him, are just as effective. The Trump memes I've seen liberals post are simply laughable. They're still stuck on Russian collusion and Putin's puppet.

Milo Minderbinder said...

Without a newsroom and editorial oversight, the NYT simply is a confederation of like-minded bloggers working from their living rooms. Why pay them any attention?

hawkeyedjb said...

"Wrapped up first degree murder charges by lunch?"

Out on bail, home for dinner. Ready for tonight's Peaceful Protest.

hawkeyedjb said...

At the Portland Oregonian, they've figured out who to blame:

"Clashes escalate in downtown Portland after Trump rally in Clackamas"

n.n said...

NYT does its part to stoke diversity and adversity. That said, it's interesting that they took a step back to mitigate their progress, and presented an objective perspective of Rittenhouse's encounter with protestors. Playing with a double-edged scalpel will only earn them goodwill for so long.

Browndog said...

It appears 4chan has already identified the shooter.

New York Times will be along in 4 days pretending their crack reporting identified the shooter, then Althouse can blog it.

Aggie said...

"Huh. Showing up in someone else's hood, flashing guns and talking shit isn't such a genius move. Who knew?" Michael Reinoehl, the suspected murderer, is a member of Antifa and does not live in Portland. Video from earlier in the evening appears to show the same man pulling his gun from his belly pouch and being restrained by a colleague, as a rally truck passes.

Much of the reporting goes this way, in a similar vein: The victim was wearing a Patriot Prayer hat and had a Thin Blue line patch on his clothing.

In other words, "And what was the rape victim wearing, officer?"

loudogblog said...

Murder most foul.

Sam L. said...

Portland rioters...and killers.

Jim at said...

You were warned, leftists. Repeatedly.
And now it's time.

Jim at said...

Huh. Showing up in someone else's hood, flashing guns and talking shit isn't such a genius move. Who knew?

Two can play this game, boy.

Clues? said...

It’s ok. “He shouldn’t have been there” is the mantra of day. So it’s all his fault, just like Rittenhouse.

Now imagine the mantra if a black man is mobbed by the KKK simply because he was in a white neighborhood and he shoots 3 in self defense. Would the same people be saying “he shouldn’t have been there” and therefore it’s his fault? What would you think of a DA who charges him with 1st degree murder? I would spit on that DA unless he was on fire.

Rittenhouse is that black man, and BLM/Antifa is the KKK. Only the names have been changed.

Clues? said...

It’s ok. “He shouldn’t have been there” is the mantra of day. So it’s all his fault, just like Rittenhouse.

Now imagine the mantra if a black man is mobbed by the KKK simply because he was in a white neighborhood and he shoots 3 in self defense. Would the same people be saying “he shouldn’t have been there” and therefore it’s his fault? What would you think of a DA who charges him with 1st degree murder? I would spit on that DA unless he was on fire.

Rittenhouse is that black man, and BLM/Antifa is the KKK. Only the names have been changed.

Clues? said...

RITTENHOUSE FOR CONGRESS 2028

(In 2028 he’ll be 25, the minimum age)

Joe Smith said...

These soy-boys really don't want a war...trust me on this.

I know folks from Western PA and from OK. They are not to be trifled with.

Joe Smith said...

@mezzrow

The headline at ZeroHedge was a quote from a female Antifa member at an Antifa rally.

Was it clickbait? Probably, but bills must be paid. And your characterization of it is dishonest.

I have no use myself for ZH because there are far too many Jew-haters commenting there (perhaps that's your style?).

You have no business comparing anyone to Pravda unless you include every mainstream media outlet, equipped with knee pads and ready and willing to use them.

Kirk Parker said...

Matt,

"... you failed in your journalism..."

Rather, they are somewhat successful in their propaganda, seeing that you are willing to posit that they were attempting to do journalism.



Clyde said...

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Well, they aren't the best martyr material are they?


Horst Wessel was a piece of shit, too.

ALP said...

I have a red baseball hat embroidered with the city/state I grew up in (Rochester, NY). Red. Looks like a Trump hat from a distance. Since our species is so fucking batshit crazy right now, I NEVER wear it during my hikes in our local park. Being a petite female - I know I am a target to TDS bullies. I know I know....with 6 guns in the house I have a variety of calibers to carry and dispatch such cretins with. But I simply can't stomach the resultant paperwork that would ensue along with the media attention. I'll stick to my gray Iditarod hat.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Clyde said...

Horst Wessel was a piece of shit, too.

This reminds me, does anyone think modern Antifa are aware that the original Antifa got the shit kicked out of it by Fascists?

Seamus said...

Of course I can guess. If it had been a leftist protester killed by a right-wing protesters, the Times would have made sure to say so in the headline.

donald said...

Ted Wheeler...destroys his city then blames the grownups for the murder of innocent civilians by his goon squad.

donald said...

You have to let our people kill your people because Donald Trump.

DavidUW said...

triggers gonna get pulled a lot quicker.

just like no one is stopping for rioters when they block the roads.

Oso Negro said...

Blogger Roughcoat said...
I hope the violent actions of BLM/antifa insurrectionists have finally put paid to the notion, somewhat smugly expressed in the past by many conservatives (including commenters to this blog), that our side would easily kick ass in an armed confrontations and conflict with leftist paramilitaries.


I have no doubt that they have sufficient creepers and criminals to provide some real assassins. But do you honestly believe that there are even ten former Marines to be counted among the Antifa people in Portland? How many Antifa people do you think have a clue how to operate an oil refinery? Heavy equipment? A water treatment plant? In a gangster style shoot-out, the Kenosha Kid did pretty well. But I don't think the Antifa people can keep the lights on and water running. THAT is what will be their demise.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

"Can you guess from this NYT headline whether a person of the right shot a person of the left or a person of the left shot a person of the right?"

Yes, I can. it's like playing "name that Party!" Since it didn't say in the headline that a person of the Right shot someone of the Left, or that a person of the Right accidentally shot someone on their own side. it immediately follows that the shooter was on the Left.

Odds then became about 4 : 1 that it was person of the Left shot someone on the Right, vs incompetent leftie shooting their own side

stevew said...

Has anyone been arrested and charged with murder? Have the charges against Rittenhouse been dropped given the evidence everyone has now seen?

I didn't think so.

ELC said...

"Can you guess from this NYT headline whether a person of the right shot a person of the left or a person of the left shot a person of the right?"

Yes. If the shooter had been pro-Trump, it would have been crystal clear in the headline. Therefore, the shooter was not pro-Trump. Easy peasy.

wbfjrr2 said...

Oso Negro, I think Roughcoat at 8:56 is more right than wrong. The rioters seem to have plenty of guns and the will/intent to use them, so it will be a real fight if it comes to that. I have a strong sense that we have the numbers to crush them though, but after a real fight. Your points are good, but not not relevant to the immediate contact of forces when it occurs.

Also notice, the shootings are virtually all in blue controlled cities, but not necessarily by residents thereof. Somebody is paying these guys and transporting them, very quickly in the case of Kenosha and Minneapolis, to create havoc. Where the fuck are Barr, the justice department and FBI? Isn’t interstate crime a federal offense?


Matt Sablan at 9:00, by “choosing not to be armed” you are choosing to be defenseless and thus a potential victim, who in your moment of need will be praying someone else protects you. Things are moving fast. Don’t stay stuck.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Also notice, the shootings are virtually all in blue controlled cities, but not necessarily by residents thereof. Somebody is paying these guys and transporting them, very quickly in the case of Kenosha and Minneapolis, to create havoc.

I think DOJ is collecting data but will probably not prosecute (Civil Rights of course to avoid Soros DAs) until after the election. If violence spikes, maybe before but the left will pounce on the Kent State story.

Nichevo said...

Roughcoat said...
I hope the violent actions of BLM/antifa insurrectionists have finally put paid to the notion ... they are not loath to use them to the maximum degree. This needs to be recognized, and we need to prepare for it accordingly. We've got to stop underestimating the enemy and feeling a smug sense of martial superiority over him. We're in for a real gunfight, people.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not seeing the indicia of skill on their part.

Will, yes, absolutely. Like I said about the Bernie Bros back when he was trying supposedly to win the primary, those guys will go three days on a bowl of rice, they'll sell their sisters, step up to a politician and empty the clip knowing they can't get away. They've got the will.

But the things they've accomplished have been at massive numbers advantages, and point-blank range, and in any kind of a stand-up fight, it seems that our seventeen-year-olds can take their twenty- and thirty-something hardcore felons at a 3:0 ratio.

Coming back to agreeing with you, I'll also agree that we won't necessarily have the numbers advantages we expect. I think those people are accumulating large numbers of weapons, whether via foreign imports, batch orders, diverting shipments, machine shops, 80% receivers or whatnot.

A little while ago there were tens of thousands of drop-in full-auto AR conversion kits intercepted in a shipment from China. For the one they caught, probably more got in. Norinco working three shifts cranking out lowers or whole rifles, Aimpoint clones, yada yada.

I hope but doubt all the angles are being worked. Because our law enforcement from the FBI on down appears to suck rocks. If Gaige Grosskreutz hasn't been put through the mill, hospital or no, that's just not good enough for me. Where did he get that very illegal handgun?

Narr said...

I am not an expert, but at least a few of the armed Antifa types I've seen in the videos look like they know their weapons and handle them easily. And there are probably some legit vets of the US armed forces in their ranks.

What's much less clear to me is any structure, not that free-lance malcontents can't do a lot of damage w/o that. One of the remarkable things to me is that unlike most earlier urban uprisings (the 60s, LA after Rodney King, etc) there hasn't been much actual sniping reported. Nothing would be easier or more provocative IMHO, than a few cops picked off by marksmen.

What's happened so far, to my knowledge, has been opportunistic, and usually from fools with handguns.

Narr
Maybe I expect too much

Narr said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tom said...

@Jim: "Two can play this game, boy."

What game, gramps? I'm just working from home. I'm not putting a red flag on my truck, driving through someone else's town, and harassing people. Are you? If not, what game are we talking about?

Nichevo said...

What's much less clear to me is any structure, not that free-lance malcontents can't do a lot of damage w/o that.


Not entirely sure what you look for here. They seem to be organized, have a command structure, discipline, after a fashion. Remember Rosenbaum, the manlet? Remember how he was hopping up and down and raging? Some very large guy on his team pushed him back and he took it like a little lamb. Not because of size but because that's his job, to wrangle his people. This was make noise not blood time. Later was blood time.

Bruce Hayden said...

It’s been almost three months (5/31) since President Trump told us that they would be designating AntiFA a domestic terror group. AG Barr stated that the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) would be taking the lead. The Lawyer’s Guild, Most other leftists, and even some libertarians (Reason), had meltdowns. Where were they though when the Nazis and the KKK were similarly designated? It’s actually quite humorous - neither of those former Dem (Ok - the Dems swung against the Nazis, overnight, when they attacked the USSR) supported organizations has engaged in much terrorism over the last half century. But the FBI keeps them well infiltrated anyway.

There are two primary statutes that they are supposedly utilizing. The first makes it a federal crime to cross state lines, or use interstate communications, to engage, or plan, arson, rioting, etc. which is obviously applicable, with AntiFA Commie Scum routinely bouncing back and forth between Seattle and Portland, but also with terrorists from Chicago showing up in Minneapolis, and from there in Wisconsin last week. Not surprisingly, the black vans seized last week in Wisconsin containing body armor, helmets, food, and water, had blacked out out of state plates. And since it is a conspiracy, with underlying felonies as predicates, RICO is applicable too.

RICO though is a double edged sword. It was designed to combat the Mafia, though has been used much more in recent years against white collar criminal enterprises. The DOJ and FBI are well experienced in building RICO cases. RICO has the advantage that those organizing the criminal enterprise, as well, sometimes, fellow travelers, can be held criminally liable. But the downside is that the cases are typically complex, and sometimes take years to put together. It typically requires a lot of methodical and meticulous work before the first indictments are unsealed. And that is the downside - the AntiFA And BLM riots continue to escalate, with the rioters now going armed, often wearing body armor and military helmets. They are now openly killing people. While the FBI is meticulously putting together their RICO case(s). Making things worse - the FBI is a comparatively old bureaucracy. FBI agents can be seen as often bureaucrats with guns. The conservative, bureaucratic, approach to law enforcement is slow and thorough.

I expect that Trump periodically gets on the phone, trying to light a fire under AG Barr, Dir Wray, and the other involved Cabinet officials to make something happen. But that only has limited effect. They are still trying to get the rest of SpyGate out in the public, and that scandal is almost 4 years old. The Deep State plays much better bureaucratic defense, than offense. Which is why I don’t really expect much in visible action before the election, just over two months away, unless things get notably worse. Then, if Trump wins, maybe major indictments next year. But if he loses, then unsealing them fairly quickly while Trump is a lame duck, so that Biden/Harris have a hard time burying them

We shall see.