"Those who questioned state-mandated lockdown and stay-at-home orders, let alone left their homes to actually protest against them, were condemned as sociopaths who were willing to sacrifice the lives of old people for economic prosperity or the trivial, troglodyte desire to go to Applebees. Oftentimes those protesting lockdowns were vilified as white nationalists or at least driven by white racialist sentiments.... How is it remotely within the scope of the expertise of epidemiologists to pick and choose which political protests should be permitted and/or encouraged and which ones banned and/or denounced? Those are plainly political judgments, not scientific ones, and the shoddy, glaring conflation of them is nothing less than a manipulation, an abuse, of public health credentials. For scientists to purport to dictate which citizens can and cannot safely choose to leave their house — based not on health judgments but on their political ideology — is repressive, and certain to erode the credibility of their profession. Yet this is exactly what they are doing: explicitly and shamelessly.... At the very least, it is vital that we have the same health and legal standards apply to all citizens and all political ideologies when it comes to the right to leave one’s home, protest or engage in other legal activities. And at least as importantly, we need to understand whether public health experts were too restrictive in their advocated measures at the start of the pandemic, are being too lax now, or somehow can reconcile the radical shift in their posture on scientific rather than political grounds."
From "The Abrupt, Radical Reversal in How Public Health Experts Now Speak About the Coronavirus and Mass Gatherings" by Glenn Greenwald (The Intercept).
June 13, 2020
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105 comments:
"How is it remotely within the scope of the expertise of epidemiologists to pick and choose which political protests should be permitted and/or encouraged and which ones banned and/or denounced?"
This has nothing to do with "science". They are simply trying to save their own skins from the mob.
Is he still in Rio?
If he is there, I see that, in addition to his piece, The Intercept is pushing info re closer to home, for him.
https://theintercept.com/2020/05/30/brazil-coronavirus-favela-mutual-aid/
For every exception... Climate change. It's a Pro-Choice, Pro-Choice, Pro-Choice, Pro-Choice world.
Those are plainly political judgments, not scientific ones, and the shoddy, glaring conflation of them is nothing less than a manipulation, an abuse, of public health credentials.
If anyone should be driven from their jobs in shame it is these people.
But they won't, because they are with the mob.
Science has become a cargo cult for the Left, that is pick and choosing what they use.
So much fraud in the so called Sciences, where data is manipulated till they get the desired results. And the desired results get mentions in the press, and lots of papers written, which gets more grants and tenure. It's a broken system when many experiments can't be replicated. Not to mention how PC stills research, such as Ron Unz's thought provoking research I mentioned in another thread.
On CoronaVirus, I am so frustrated by the HUGE CYA that is being done. Where basic information on how Coronavirus is being spread, among whom, what age group is just not there. Not to mention the Mask Issue as a way to reduce. Because of the incompetence of our Elites that have squandered their credibility, there is a lack of trust in what they say. And it seems we have hurt the US Economy tremendously through lock downs, for little actual results.
Doesn’t surprise me a bit. I’ve been rather ashamed lately of my profession.
"Blogger Wince said...
Those are plainly political judgments, not scientific ones, and the shoddy, glaring conflation of them is nothing less than a manipulation, an abuse, of public health credentials.
If anyone should be driven from their jobs in shame it is these people.
But they won't, because they are with the mob."
Plus, they have no shame.
Paging Ken B and Inga.........
That there was a political aspect of this was obvious from the beginning. All you had to do was look at the comparative positions of red state versus blue state Governors re: the lockdowns.
The "experts" chose to side with the Left. As did the press and academia. No surprise there.
Any rational person should view them all with a more than healthy dose of skepticism.
Open letter by "epidemiologists at the University of Washington and then ultimately signed by 1,300 experts from around the country":
"A public health response to these demonstrations [against imaginary racism] is also warranted, but this message must be wholly different from the response to white protesters resisting stay-home orders."
Because White People are Bad and 1,300 experts at something-or-other, are racists.
For example, Glenn Greenwald, a white person, is bad:
"I’ve been a vocal supporter of these protests from their start, including their occasional use of civil disobedience and targeted property damage."
Perhaps Mx. Greenwald will provide his home address along with a message saying he approves of vandalizing or looting his property, as long as it's targeted, and that he won't call those horrible police.
"How is it remotely within the scope of the expertise of epidemiologists to pick and choose which political protests should be permitted and/or encouraged and which ones banned and/or denounced?"
It isn't. But then, the expertise was always phony.
"Those are plainly political judgments, not scientific ones, and the shoddy, glaring conflation of them is nothing less than a manipulation, an abuse, of public health credentials."
Abuse, sure, if you apply nice old-fashioned standards. But in the prog scheme of things, credentials are just another tool.
"For scientists to purport to dictate which citizens can and cannot safely choose to leave their house — based not on health judgments but on their political ideology — is repressive, and certain to erode the credibility of their profession. Yet this is exactly what they are doing: explicitly and shamelessly"
Indeed. More than Taibbi and Sullivan, Greenwald is seeing what he's observing: a repressive project unfolding, shamelessly.
All three are finally catching up to the diagnosis many commenters here have been making for a while now, ad nauseam.
Good for them, but probably too late to make a difference.
What you'd need is for some Faucis and university presidents and top Dems to speak along these lines. So far, crickets. They're all scared of being called racists.
A crafty public official would play devil's advocate and issue a reopening order that expressly states that for protests, an unlimited numbers of people at BLM protests are allowed, and protests over the continued shutdown are limited to ten people.
Fat Lives Matter.
Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?
“And at least as importantly, we need to understand whether public health experts were too restrictive in their advocated measures at the start of the pandemic, are being too lax now, or somehow can reconcile the radical shift in their posture on scientific rather than political grounds."
Time will tell, this virus is called a novel virus because we’ve never seen it before in humans. There was and still is a lot to learn and those who are demanding all the answers now should keep their panties on. I don’t buy the notion that the scientists shifted their positions based on politics.
I may be guilty of shifting my position on political grounds, in addition to things we’ve learned since March such as the efficacy of face masks in reducing spread, I’ll admit that.
The hypocrisy is blatant. The underlying message is we don't really care about your opinion enough to hide our hypocrisy. That's how powerless you are.
Greenwald: "I remain an enthusiastic supporter on the ground that we simply cannot tolerate any longer an unaccountable, paramilitarized police force that kills with impunity, especially when aimed disproportionately at African Americans and Latinos."
Links to the Washington Post database -- which shows no such thing. Even Greenwald can't liberate himself from the prog BS just yet.
"So dogmatic was the dictate that we all stay at home that any attempt to question or even balance it... was deemed immoral."
See, you guys don't catch it - "immoral" - cultish framing again.
This country's got it bad.
BTW - don't forget who our medical "professionals" are, now.
We got cultists, cultists, EVERYWHERE.
P.S.
That piece is by Jef Raskin. He invented the Apple Computer. Just sayin'.
In the name of the science, the data, and the models we pray. Amen.
Inga said...
Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?
AND, people Wonder Why i always refer to this idiot as Igna
Hey Leftists and Concern Troll cvnts:
We are really sorry this is happening to you.
"How is it remotely within the scope of the expertise of epidemiologists to pick and choose which political protests should be permitted and/or encouraged and which ones banned and/or denounced?"
This has nothing to do with "science". They are simply trying to save their own skins from the mob.
So much this. There's no religion or science anymore; it's all politics, politics all the way down.
Good grief they are stark raving mad.
Crack beats horse in this newfandangled game of roshambo.
I don’t buy the notion that the scientists shifted their positions based on politics.
@Inky, you’re the only one who doesn’t get it.
Inga said…". I don’t buy the notion that the scientists shifted their positions based on politics."
Incredible.
Above any other principle of behavior: Trump Derangement Syndrome. When the only available behavior to oppose Trump was to oppose reopening, then "oppose reopening" was the only moral choice. When a new better behavior became available (march and riot against racism), then "march and riot against racism" was the only moral choice. The actions and opinions of almost every Democrat and left leaning person can always be most easily understood by examining those actions and opinions through the prism of TDS.
Inga has always been at war with East Asia.
Inga said...
Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?
blogger Goobar said...
“AND, people Wonder Why i always refer to this idiot as Igna”
———————————————-
Was Goobar locked in his home by his neighborhood watch supervisor Karen? Poor Goobar, I’m so happy he’s been set free.
As for myself, I’ve never been stopped from leaving my home since day one of social distancing.
Thirty years ago, before I was particularly political, I knew I wanted to go to grad school in a scientific field. I was interested in medicine, but not in going to medical school, so I looked into public health. I visited a few schools and talked to a lot of people, but even then, I noticed how much certain assumptions about politics seemed to skew conversations. It was a real turn-off.
(As an aside, before public health, forestry and environmental science had been my top choice. I managed to get a few internships and did field work and lab work, and I really enjoyed it. However, I tended to ask a lot of questions about experimental design and data analysis, and I kept getting the feeling that was not welcomed. I ended up going into biochemistry, a field I didn't love at the time, but at least questions and critical thinking were encouraged.)
Birkel said...
"Crack beats horse in this newfandangled game of roshambo."
You'd prefer I join BLM?
Original Mike (of Inga):"Incredible"
Not really. Inga has all the credibility of her (presumably) lifelong commitment to leftist ideology.
It's not something most of us conservatives can understand, but it's "credible" in that light.
Greenwald: "I remain an enthusiastic supporter on the ground that we simply cannot tolerate any longer an unaccountable, paramilitarized police force that kills with impunity, especially when aimed disproportionately at African Americans and Latinos."
Impunity - exemption from punishment or freedom from the injurious consequences of an action.
All four cops immediately fired and subsequently criminally charged. Seems to me that they are being held as accountable as the law allows. But no rhetoric is too inflammatory in the service of vanquishing racism; whatever that is.
Inga: "I may be guilty of shifting my position on political grounds...."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I supported the initial lockdowns. A new disease that seemed to be ravaging the population of northern Italy and which had the Chinese government panicking? Common sense says take precautions, especially until you at least have a better understanding of what's going on. However, I figured by April things would start to ease up. The hysteria, and obvious political maneuvering of many on the left has been disgusting. They've all but guaranteed that when there is a serious outbreak, nothing will be done until it's too late.
"Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?"
Six seconds with google, the first link:
"Mayor Muriel Bowser is threatening residents of Washington, DC, with 90 days in jail and a $5,000 fine if they leave their homes during the coronavirus outbreak."
In Austin, Texas, my excellent governor had to overrule the asshat mayor of Austin, who basically wanted 9and still wants) everyone to stay inside until we all starved to death.
Mayor Steve Adler, please take your ass off your head. It is not a good look for a mayor to wear his own ass as a hat.
When science and morality get politized you wind up with political science and situational ethics.
I suppose it would be possible that a science-based change in health policy just happened to occur in the couple of days between the last loudly decried anti-lockdown protest and the first widely celebrated anti-"racist police campaign against black bodies" protest. But if that is the case, they did an absolutely terrible job of communicating it to the public.
For the record: I don't believe this is the case, because it'd be such an unlikely coincidence.
Also for the record: it appears (repeat: it appears) that George Floyd probably would be alive today if not for actions taken by Officer Chauven. I want us to work toward a world in which no person dies in police custody, though I suspect that goal is unreachable because the police sometimes take into custody people who have recently done things that can kill them, like taking large quantities of dangerous drugs (as I understand was the case with Floyd, which is why I stop short of saying "Chauven killed Floyd"), and because police are human beings who, even with the best training, will sometimes err. I don't know what happened to Floyd or why Chauven acted as he did - was it racism, some personal animus, sadism, or bad judgment? And I'd say I'm not alone in not knowing, though apparently I'm in the minority in saying so.
Progressives are fundamentally dishonest. Always. It's central to their mission.
It's impossible to be honest, moral, and patriotic and be a progressive.
Blogger Fernandinande said...
Fat Lives Matter.
In the Republican Party, that is essentially All Lives Matter
Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?
You simply cannot be this stupid.
You just can't.
I agree with GG. And I believe the virus was and is a threat, and the distancing saved lives, and we might be facing a catastrophe next. But the public health people pissed their credibility away, and confirmed the worst suspicions of the Trumpkins. Appalling behavior.
So lockdowns are a dead letter now. There will never again be the trust needed to make them work.
Wear a mask if you go shopping or are in a group, distance, sanitize. Stay away from proud disease vectors like Typhoid-Mary-I-am.
And if you live in a blue city, move.
Here is a good piece from MR. The linked Goldberg is good too. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/06/rescheduling-for-thee-but-not-for-me.html
Lancetgate is another example.
This is a ubiquitous problem in our culture now. People freely exploit their position or responsibility for ideological ends. It’s a form of corruption. It seems ineradicable.
Not sure what part of "Stay At Home Order" Inga does not understand.
Ignorance is Bliss said....
Was Goobar locked in his home by his neighborhood watch supervisor Karen?
No, Bliss; i live in Iowa: a Free State.... However, Not EVERYONE is so fortunate
Bliss then said...
As for myself, I’ve never been stopped from leaving my home since day one of social distancing.
Again, i KNOW this is Hard for you, so i'll type Slowly...
Not
Everyone
Lives
In
The
Same
Place
do you get it? Some people don't live where you do... that's why your house isn't so crowded
What needs to happen in Sonoma and elsewhere are to have local health officials held accountable to the people or be 1 voice on a City Council that makes the call.
It was a huge mistake giving these unelected health officials so much power over lockdowns, masks, voo doo bones etc The severe economic damage that has happened on their watch will take years to fix and there is nothing to being done to stop them from fucking things up again this fall.
And no, I don't think social distancing or any of the lockdown nonsense did much to contain or even slow down the virus in California. Lets make a deal and let's have a truly independent study on how effective any of this has been and decide if we ever want to give sole control of shutting down the economy to unelected heath officials who pay no price for getting it wrong.
“I don’t buy the notion that the scientists shifted their positions based on politics.”
Well, no. Ideologues shifted their positions based on politics. By definition, no scientists were involved.
Goodness. Does the Democrat Party know you’re acting as their most prominent voice on this blog? It’s a small corner of the internet but nevertheless....
“Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?"
Six seconds with google, the first link.
You’re lying by omission. The DC mayor’s order specified that residents may leave their residences to:
Engage in essential activities, including obtaining medical care that cannot be provided through telehealth and obtaining food and essential household goods
Perform or access essential governmental functions
Work at essential businesses
Engage in essential travel
Engage in allowable recreational activities
In the Republican Party, that is essentially All Lives Matter
Yes, Howard. That is very true. Some were sort of hoping that DC Mayor would paint "Black Lives Matter" in front of Planned Parenthood.
I am personally pro-choice, as Inga is fond of pointing out, so I don't have a dog in that fight. So to speak.
CNN is spending 45 minutes an hour on the "surge in Coronavirus." Hopefully.
Mr Wibble, 2:01:
"I supported the initial lockdowns. A new disease that seemed to be ravaging the population of northern Italy and which had the Chinese government panicking? Common sense says take precautions, especially until you at least have a better understanding of what's going on."
Right there with you, and I agree with the rest.
I've been so mad at the public health types saying, We support mass protests because protesting racism is just that important. Not because it isn't, but because their reaction to this is exactly what it could have been for reasons they didn't care as much about: OK, we're worried about the virus spread, but - your reason is hugely important, so get out there, take all reasonable precautions, and here's what those are.
Congratulations, guys. Retroactively, you've now announced: I don't care if your business goes under, I don't care if your loved one dies alone and the funeral is on Zoom; you will stay put because I said so. Now, if you wanted to assemble for a cause I feel strongly about, that would be completely different. I'd be helping you find a way to get out there, and urging the politicians I advise to let you.
No one will believe them next time. And they'll actually have the gall to wonder why.
Wow.
Go Glenn Greenwald, again. I don't always agree with him but he's really consistent. I wouldn't mind if the whole media were like him.
The truth of what happened is that we panicked and don't want to admit it.
The lockdowns did a lot of damage, had to be lifted eventually, and now everyone is going to get sick anyway. All we did was add economic damage to the death toll. That's simplified, but I think it's mostly true.
That's simplified, but I predict economic historians are going to be using the lockdowns as a case study of what not to do in the future.
If the political leaders had said, We know that, with the forces we have available, we can't stop the protestors and rioters from violating social-distancing rules, so we aren't going to try, I would understand and accept that position. But for supposed-experts -- medical and epidemic disease experts -- to say that violating social-distancing is OK if the cause is fighting "racism", because "racism" is more harmful than Covid, that is so monumentally stupid that I will NEVER again follow the advice of such "experts".
"You’re lying by omission."
No, I'm not. From the original comment:
"At the very least, it is vital that we have the same health and legal standards apply to all citizens and all political ideologies when it comes to the right to leave one’s home, protest or engage in other legal activities."
Plenty of legal activities were not included in the list of "permitted" activities.
Howard: "In the Republican Party, that is essentially All Lives Matter"
Stacey "tank" Abrams and Jerry "the Nads" Nadler thank you.
The Crack Emcee: "You'd prefer I join BLM?"
There might be some that would argue that placing you on BLM's team might not be a favor to BLM.
interestingly peru, which had a very extreme lockdown, has had a severe spike according to the times, so maybe these things are counterproductive,
Confucius say: First round bat virus don't stop America. We cook up new one. We is asshole.
As an attorney I was always free to go to my office. My firm told me to stay home. Now firm tells me I can go in, and I did the first day, but what's the point? No one is there. Commenters here may think covid is a hoax but people remain afraid of getting it.
That said, I got take-out from a nearby dine-in Mexican restaurant a few days ago. Crowded. Staff all had masks. Patrons in bar and restaurant? None besides me. Did not wait inside for my food.
Drago said...
"There might be some that would argue that placing you on BLM's team might not be a favor to BLM."
Probably not, since they're winning.
I told y'all YOUR arguments weren't gonna do it. You couldn't even convince me.
Now I'm getting everything I asked for - reparations included.
"You’re lying by omission." No, I'm not.
Let’s make a deal: You’ll admit DC residents could leave their houses under the mayor’s order, and I’ll ignore how you tried to change the subject once you were called out.
“Hopefully.”
This correct use of a much abused word should be applauded.
This is the subject:
"At the very least, it is vital that we have the same health and legal standards apply to all citizens and all political ideologies when it comes to the right to leave one’s home, protest or engage in other legal activities."
No deal.
Crack: "I told y'all YOUR arguments weren't gonna do it. You couldn't even convince me."
Hmmm. No one is wasting their time trying to "convince" you of anything.
Its funny that you insist they are.
Commenters here may think covid is a hoax but people remain afraid of getting it.
You are getting more and more like Inga. Nobody said it was a hoax. The hysteria was way overblown, probably for a reason. Democrats have been hoping for a recession since impeachment failed. CNN is 45 minutes per hour on how dangerous it is to go outside.
I see teenagers wearing masks and that is amusing since they are safer getting it than getting the flu.
The homeless man's Jesse Jackson says "Now I'm getting everything I asked for - reparations included."
Is that what you are calling your e-begging these days?
Not exactly on topic, but still germane: I've taken a break from reading comments here for a few days. Has anyone posted regarding the increase in cases? Re-opening would seem a candidate, but it's weird that it's kind of state specific, and it's been several weeks for quite a few states. I'm thinking contact tracing, since there's more cases but not a corresponding increase in deaths.
"I see teenagers wearing masks and that is amusing since they are safer getting it than getting the flu."
Ain't that the truth? In my state there have been a total of ZERO deaths for those under 50. Two deaths for 50-60, and ten for 60-70.
hypothetical question (assume that i am an evil home invader with an AR-15)
I, under force of arms; imprison you in your home... But sometimes let you out to buy groceries
making sure that You KNOW, that IF you don't return, i'll execute your family
this goes on for three months. I (while reading your diary,) see that you have said that you were unhappy about being imprisoned in your own home... and i ask you:
"Who didn’t have the right to leave their homes?"
would you think that i was being mean? Or, just stupid?
here's another. . .
If the courts (this one is about the courts), put a radio thing on your ankle, and put you under 'house arrest', where you can Only go to
work
grocery store
Are you under 'house arrest'? after all, you can leave when ever you want (to go to the grocery store) guess what, courts do this ALL the time
oh wait! here's one, from my personal experience
from June, 2000; until June 2001, i was Court ORDERED not to leave Story or Boone counties ( i got to go to Boone, 'cause that's where my Judge sat)
If, during that time, i had been found outside of Story or Boone county; i would have be sent to PRISON
Was i under restraint ? after all, i could leave my home (i could Even DRIVE [for work/groceries/trials/attorney meetings]). So, was i under restraint? Was my freedom infringed
According to some of you idiots, the answer must have been "NO", since i could not only leave my house, i could even go to the grocery store
so, i ask you... IF my freedom wasn't infringed... Why did the judge sentence me to that? I'd committed CRIMES, and was supposed to be locked up
If you people actually think that being able to go to the grocery store means you're not imprisoned, i guess you don't commit nearly as many crimes as i (did)
Ken B said...
I agree with GG. And I believe the virus was and is a threat, and the distancing saved lives, and we might be facing a catastrophe next. But the public health people pissed their credibility away,
As did people including ...Ken B... who claimed despite evidence the virus infections rate was exponential and thus vastly more deadly than was true. Now we see hon trying to backtrack without ever admitting not just his mistake but his demonization of everyone he now pretends to agree with.
“I see teenagers wearing masks and that is amusing since they are safer getting it than getting the flu.“
Doc Mike,
Can you think of another reason that could motivate these folks to wear masks? Other than self preservation?
"Two deaths for 50-60, and ten for 60-70."
The county Pittsburgh is in has assessed 173 deaths to the virus, with median age of death of 84. In recent years, the median age of death from all causes has been 80.
Can you think of another reason that could motivate these folks to wear masks? Other than self preservation?
Democrats. Most adults I see wearing masks outdoors, I assume are Democrats. It's a bit like a secret handshake and, like vegans, they can't wait to tell you.
Yancey ward has been compiling stats.
Sure, Inga, everyone had the right to leave their homes. But to go where? All non-essential business shut, with a totally arbitrary and capricious set of rules, different in each state, as to what business was essential. Couldn’t buy any color paint other than what was pre-mixed because covid could apparently tell the difference. Couldn’t use a boat ramp and go boating because the virus would travel across the water and get you. Couldn’t, and still can’t, freely travel between states. Couldn’t attend religious services whether no matter what day your sabbath was. Although there are still rumors that wasn’t enforced against muslims, only Christians and Jews. Couldn’t go to malls. Couldn’t go out to dinner, or to a bar. State parks were closed, so couldn’t go there. Playgrounds were closed, so you couldn’t take your children to one.
But yeah, everyone was free to leave their house.
I am pro choice, too. The first choice: abstention. The second choice: prevention (perhaps up to nervous system development around one month). The third choice: compassion. The fourth choice: love. I oppose the Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic, religion/philosophy, the Wicked Solution, including reproductive rites and Planned Parenthood (e.g. clinical cannibalism: reduce, reuse, recycle).
“I see teenagers wearing masks and that is amusing since they are safer getting it than getting the flu.“
Social contagion (e.g. stigma, peer pressure) and quasi-scientific (e.g. circumstantial, selective, opportunistic) evidence. That said, the guidance from Wuhan is 3 m social distancing, 6 if you follow the precautionary principle. Also, wear goggles, the eyes are a window to contagion, wash your hands, and change your mask frequently when protesting, rioting, committing redistributive change, assault, etc.
Tomcc said, "Has anyone posted regarding the increase in cases?"
On June 12, Instapundit linked to a Wall Street Journal editorial discussing a recent modest rise in cases. The rise seems mostly due to additional testing, but the case increase also exceeds the rate of test increase.
There isn't (as yet) an increase in hospitalizations or deaths. And the case increases appear skewed toward the usual risk groups.
The WSJ editorial is paywalled, and I don't subscribe, but there's a nice video available at the top. Hope this helps.
Democrats. Most adults I see wearing masks outdoors, I assume are Democrats.
They're like mimes stuck in a greenhouse. They exhibited the same acute phobia following Fukushima.
Where I live, the outdoor mask-wearers are mostly Asian. I think there's still a masking requirement in LA County, so there's a compliance factor as well. Not sure how rigorously the requirement is actually enforced.
Commenters here may think covid is a hoax but people remain afraid of getting it.
Covid was not a joke. Neither is Covid-19, the disease attributed to the virus formerly from Wuhan (formally SARS-CoV-2). However, short of Planned Pathogen (PP) to abort the virus and reduce the viability of its posterity, the order of the day is context-sensitive prudence and boldness (i.e. exercise in risk management or life as it exists on Earth).
I don't think COVID is a hoax but I also don't think the last three months of pearl clutching was necessary. Once we all saw that our hospitals weren't stressed we should have gone back to business as usual. Those who were in a situation where elderly family members were at risk could mitigate their behavior. If people felt they were in danger they could self quarantine. But it was just oh, so convenient to use the matter as a way to kill the economy and throw the election. What's a few thousand dead people in nursing homes?
Oh, and two books I recommend you all read:"SJWs Always Lie" and "SJWs Always Double Down". Both will help you spot and fight those who would inevitably come for your heads. Never apologize, never explain.
100%, Glenn Greenwald
Greenwald is an honest liberal and a very brave writer.
That does not mean that he is or was right about anything or most things.
I am my foremost authority on everything but am on occasion mistaken; so it is possible that Greenwald could have been correct about some of the lefty stuff he espoused in the past; though I doubt it.
I do think he’d be an interesting person to have a drink with.
Who wants to kill the economy? Not even PRC. The Russians and ISIS maybe. No one hates Trump enough to want to see themselves and their families suffering. Crazy talk.
My healthy nephew in his twenties got it early. It's not the flu. At 63 I think it could be bad. Living in a house with a 90 year old with COPD, it would be surely fatal.
You are lying Rick.
And, please note, I am NOT disavowing any position I took on covid. It was and is a deadly threat. I am criticizing the people who sold their credibility for a bowl of pottage.
For example, I still say Yancey Ward's prediction of 7500 dead for the whole run of the epidemic was wrong.
I still say Anne-I-am's boast that she was meeting with visitors from China long after the flights were cancelled and her city was under lockdown was untrue.
I still say Pants is a hero for signing up for that human challenge variolation trial.
Bob @ 9:15: thank you, I'll check it out.
I'm completely used to the crazy people calling me crazy.
I thought it was mostly hysterical bullshit then; I think it's mostly hysterical bullshit now.
But if you're 84, and afraid of meetin' your maker, by all means, wear a mask, wear a condom, wear a hazmat suit, and feel free to shelter in place.
To date, I've still not met anyone who was clinically diagnosed with Wuhan Bat Flu, nor heard of anyone in my rather large circle, dying from it.
On 12.31.20, it'd be interesting to see if we have any meaningful excess mortality, or was it all just a bad dream.......
Thanks Crack for the interesting comments and the link.
The article you shared on Nursing is troubling:
https://patheyman.com/humbug-nursing-theory/
It seemed CNN was trumpeting a huge rise in cases in Texas and Florida, which upon closer examination seemed to be due to increased testing. Hospitalization and % Positive seems very low.
LA County we are re-opening, but the numbers are not looking good, last I looked.
Basic information on how people are catching Coronavirus, what the the most common vectors, is not being given. I don't understand if we had this lockdown, then where were people picking up the infection from?
In a sane world these "health experts" would have squandered their credibility for a momentary political point.
This is not a sane world.
"Experts" have demonstrated their incompetence, bias, and recklessness a hundred times lately. The media covers for them and they never, ever, face any consequences.
cf: Hillary Clinton.
"SJWs Always Lie" and "SJWs Always Double Down"
Social justice (i.e. relativistic) anywhere is injustice everywhere.
Other than the single paragraph about supporting the protests and “some targeted property destruction,” Greenwald’s article could have been written by Tucker Carlson.
I entered the draw for a free trip to watch the acceptance speech in Jacksonville with a guest. I have a retiree relative nearby who would love to attend (she says). But if i win u will go in a hazmat suit for sure.
@Ken B:
“ For example, I still say Yancey Ward's prediction of 7500 dead for the whole run of the epidemic was wrong. ”
Yes, he was wrong.
But being off by 100,000 gets him a heck of a lot closer to reality than Imperial University and the IHME.
Crack. Don't cash that checkjust yet.
"Readering said...
Who wants to kill the economy? Not even PRC. The Russians and ISIS maybe. No one hates Trump enough to want to see themselves and their families suffering. Crazy talk."
Why you do, of course. You consistantly support a leftist agenda that destroys small businesses and working people. I'll be kind and simply say you are another leftist that does not understand how this machine works.
Ken B: "And, please note, I am NOT disavowing any position I took on covid. It was and is a deadly threat. I am criticizing the people who sold their credibility for a bowl of pottage."
That's a fucking lie! I never advocated ignoring Wuflu nor argued that it was not a serious situation. I argued that instead of locking the whole country down and destroying the economy, why not isolate the most vulnerable and let the rest of the population get on with their lives. Which is mostly what is being done now. I also pointed out that treating NY and NC where I live exactly the same as regards extreme lock down measures was insane, and provided the infection data to prove it. For disagreeing with you and your girlfriend Inga on the most reasonable approach, you specifically accused me of being willing to kill grandma to preserve my 401K. And the position you took was less the issue than the arrogant, condescending manner in which you criticized anyone who had a different idea than yours. MY MIL and the patients in her nursing home were treated exactly as I, Sebastian and Yancy advocated, and not a one of them has had Wuflu. Can you say the same?
The problem with you is less that you're wrong and more that you're an insufferably arrogant POS.
With regard to the "who wants to crash the economy? Nobody!" thing -
"I'll be kind and simply say you are another leftist that does not understand how this machine works."
Yes... but importantly, I think we should look to the motivations of those who don't understand how the machine works. In this case (as in so many others in the past), the goal is to bring down a politician they "don't like" (putting that in quotes because it's so euphemistic; based on what they say and do, it'd be more accurate to say "obsessively hate, and maybe fear a bit for some reason"). The economy is collateral damage, and - again based on what they say and do - they appear not to care.
Any left-leaning lurkers, I hope you're paying attention to what your side is saying via their actions: the destruction of someone they disagree with is more important than the livelihoods of millions. Bear it in mind. Someday they may disagree with you.
Jay dub proves he cannot read. Jaydub is not an epidemiologist who flip flopped so I was not talking about jaydub.
Hey Skipper
No, it makes him worse because that was his prediction without any mitigation.so had we listened to him the death toll and the damage would have been worse, much worse. And he’s not off by 100,000. He's off by that many *so far*.
"No one hates Trump enough to want to see themselves and their families suffering."
I'm inclined to think this is true. There's a lot of Trump Hate out there among the general population and a significant concentration of it within the state and local governments on the west coast (where I reside). The "shut-down" policies that were put into effect were done so out of fear, not out of dislike for the President. Unfortunately, our state and local leaders ignored the pain and suffering of ordinary citizens and failed to modify their restrictions as soon as it became clear that our health systems would not be overwhelmed. They certainly should have recognized that they were assuring long term economic and social damage, but the reliance on "expert opinion" in lieu of rational, but less stringent constraints prevented them from doing so. That's the problem with statists; too much faith in the power of government to solve problems.
Addendum to my last comment for context. I live in Oregon. We have seen an increase in cases in the last few days. No significant increase in deaths, mind you. Our most populous county, Multnomah, had been approved for phase 1 re-opening; the Governor has now suspended that approval as well as all phase 2 approvals.
To date our rate of positive tests is 3.3%. The rate death for folks with Covid-19 is about 3.1%. The experts insist on paying attention to the wrong metric.
Howard said...
Blogger Fernandinande said...
Fat Lives Matter.
In the Republican Party, that is essentially All Lives Matter
Howie thinks so good! Nobody thinks as good as him.
Tomcc,
The heck the lockdown policies weren't enacted at least in part to harm Trump. We've never ever before enacted such lockdowns, not even during the Spanish Flu (where the primary thing was banning large gatherings.) What's different about now vs SARS?
"We have seen an increase in cases in the last few days."
That statement, standing alone, is even more meaningless than you say, because it could be entirely an artifact of increased testing. And yes, it's deaths per capita, and hospitalizations, that matter.
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