Harvard Magazine has a cover story on the dangers of home schooling and suggest a presumptive ban. In the cover image they misspelt arithmetic. https://t.co/GjTzL64hEQ— Shruti Rajagopalan (@srajagopalan) April 19, 2020
I first saw that at Instapundit, where Glenn has written a funny-mean headline: "ELIZABETH BARTHOLET, THE 'KAREN WANTS TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER' PROFESSOR OF LAW AT HARVARD, DOESN’T LIKE HOMESCHOOLING."
Let's look at the article. First, "arithmetic" is spelled correctly (so the illustration was either edited by Harvard Magazine or by somebody who wanted to make it look stupid):
The article is written by Erin O'Donnell, based on interviewing Elizabeth Bartholet, who is the Wasserstein public interest professor of law and faculty director of the Law School’s Child Advocacy Program. Bartholet "recommends a presumptive ban" on homeschooling.
“We have an essentially unregulated regime in the area of homeschooling,” Bartholet asserts. All 50 states have laws that make education compulsory, and state constitutions ensure a right to education, “but if you look at the legal regime governing homeschooling, there are very few requirements that parents do anything.” Even apparent requirements such as submitting curricula, or providing evidence that teaching and learning are taking place, she says, aren’t necessarily enforced. Only about a dozen states have rules about the level of education needed by parents who homeschool, she adds. “That means, effectively, that people can homeschool who’ve never gone to school themselves, who don’t read or write themselves.” In another handful of states, parents are not required to register their children as homeschooled; they can simply keep their kids at home.Reading those paragraphs, I thought of the great memoir Educated, by Tara Westover, and then I saw that the next paragraph has Bartholet citing Westover as an example of a child who is kept out of school, left uneducated and subjected to physical abused throughout childhood.
This practice, Bartholet says, can isolate children. She argues that one benefit of sending children to school at age four or five is that teachers are “mandated reporters,” required to alert authorities to evidence of child abuse or neglect. “Teachers and other school personnel constitute the largest percentage of people who report to Child Protective Services,” she explains, whereas not one of the 50 states requires that homeschooling parents be checked for prior reports of child abuse. Even those convicted of child abuse, she adds, could “still just decide, ‘I’m going to take my kids out of school and keep them at home.’”
[S]urveys of homeschoolers show that a majority of such families (by some estimates, up to 90 percent) are driven by conservative Christian beliefs, and seek to remove their children from mainstream culture. Bartholet notes that some of these parents are “extreme religious ideologues” who question science and promote female subservience and white supremacy.Bartholet's idea of a "presumptive ban" would put the burden on the parents to meet some sort of standard that would be set by legislation. Do those who are insulting Bartholet support letting parents keep their children out of school on a mere claim that they are educating their children at home?
Children should “grow up exposed to...democratic values, ideas about nondiscrimination and tolerance of other people's viewpoints.”...
247 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 247 of 247Speaking as a homeschooling parent, I support the idea that the presumption of appropriate parenting is on the side of the parent until there is evidence otherwise. This is analogous to the presumption of innocence. The parent is the primary educator of the child, not the state.
In my state, filing a form that is an Intent to Homeschool and an attendance record is enough. More is not required. No one has shown homeschooling children to be abused at rates higher than non homeschooled. The rates of violence against children in public schools has been demonstrated to be higher than in non-public schools.
"Depends upon the quality of the public-school district. In affluent districts, AP classes dominate and if the local district doesn't offer it, they will pay for the online/community college education."
Nope. Homeschoolers have access to all of that and more.
You get what you pay for, in property taxes.
Untrue. Property taxes keep going up while the output of education is flat or going down.
I would say you get what you pay for by choosing the right neighbors to sit in class with your kids.
If Boston and Brookline had the same property taxes, the kids in Brookline would be way ahead.
"Lesser numbers of professional people in well-to-do public school districts have to resort to homeschooling or private education because their tax dollars, and their own efforts, support local public education."
And yet, many of them do because they can offer even more at home.
After this pandemic, there will be less people playing around with the idea of home schooling. They’ll send their kids back to school with a huge sigh of relief that forced homeschooling is a thing of the past. LIBERATE those parents!
people of a certain ideology are certain the government loves other people's children more than their own parents.
John henry said...
Even you should be paranoid enough not to participate in a zoom meeting.
I must admit I don't always turn my camera on during zoom meetings, but that is because it it my yoga time. I find it helps me get through the meeting.
Not clear to me that zoom is better or worse than competitors. They can all be abused. Not really an issue for me, nothing I have to say is of any strategic importance.
There are more options for advanced classes for homeschoolers than there are for public schoolers.
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False. Depends upon the quality of the public-school district. In affluent districts, AP classes dominate and if the local district doesn't offer it, they will pay for the online/community college education.
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Sorry, but AP classes at high schools are an extremely limited option for advanced students. Restricted access by schools requiring unreasonable pre reqs, limited opportunity for thinking, high grind factor. AoPS or CTY or SOHS or Lukeion or 100 other options are more valuable and challenging. CC classes arent intellectually hefty.
But okay, assuming you meant these options are grand, homeschoolers can take AP classes and AP exams, and several states allow homeschooled students to participate in the same dual enrollment programs public school students can. So Homeschooled kids have equal and better opportunities. There is no reason public schools couldn't avail themselves of these impressive programs--but they don't.
I am on the board of a national camp for profoundly gifted children and once ran the parent program for another such camp. Parent elists for profoundly gifted children are full of posts by parents of students in the best schools complaining about the lack of individualized education. Homeschooling among profoundly gifted children is common, even in top-ranked districts. Many figure that if, for example, the child is going to need all college level classes, it's easier to register the child as a homeschooler than to fight with schools for accommodation.
The only statistically significant variable in a child's academic performance is their parents' academic performance. The rest is bull shit.
The most successful schools in history were one room buildings in New England (mainly) in the 1700s (mainly). They were community based schools and had no oversight from the state.
The rest is bull shit.
AA: Bartholet's idea of a "presumptive ban" would put the burden on the parents to meet some sort of standard that would be set by legislation.
What is the basis for this faith in the wisdom of legislators?
As RK explained early in this thread, a 19th-century rationale for public schools was that there were economies of scale that could be exploited by setting up classrooms rather than teaching at home. With online instruction, there is no particular reason for kids to learn in dedicated spaces in groups of 30.
Elizabeth Bartholet finished college in 1962.. Is it way too ageist to think that perhaps she hasn't adapted her thinking to contemporary reality?
Don't homeschoolers have to meet well-defined state requirements? The enterprise is hardly unregulated.
Freeman Hunt said...
Many figure that if, for example, the child is going to need all college level classes, it's easier to register the child as a homeschooler than to fight with schools for accommodation.
Did not understand this. Why not simply finish school a year or two early and then go to college?
Better than AP classes:
Have your gifted student take the GED at whatever age they like and enroll at the local junior college. Most states have to pay for those credit hours, to my knowledge. Transfer all those credits to a state school and graduate college at 16-18. Get a job.
The state fellators are here to tell you how grand it is to surrender children to the indoctrination camps.
Nobody would bother to refute what I have typed. It would be a waste of time to try. Every word I wrote is true.
--That's abuse if the child grows up to be an illiterate adult on the public dole.
You do know that no one is put in prison for public school kids being illiterate, right? That abuse is a-okay, and in my state, about 60% of black high school students can't score as proficient in english, and neither can 30% of white high school students. Not a single person loses their job for this, not one.
So I'd say the burden is on you to show you outperform homeschoolers if you want to prove you're not abusing students.
"Because homeschooled kids kick ass and take names, every time, on every metric."
I don't know the research, but I know my 8 year old granddaughter's experience. She was doing poorly in reading and math. This was in a supposedly "good" school system. We went to work; her mother on reading and me on math. She immediately went from failing math to acing the tests. This was before the pandemic shutdown, but I have no concerns that she is being deprived educationally.
Did not understand this. Why not simply finish school a year or two early and then go to college?
Because my children are still children who need to learn the skills and judgment of being an adult under some guidance.
many colleges, including state schools, require freshmen to live on campus. My 14 yr old is not prepared for that, and my 16 yr old won't be either. Again, the point as a homeschooler is thr parent is the primary educator of the child. Once the child is an adult, hopefully at 18, he or she can make the best decisions for him or herself. Until then, my job, and my call.
Both are fully bilingual, English/Spanish though the 2 year old is very hard to understand in either language. Just learning to form words.
A neurosurgeon friend of mine married a girl who was Danish and spoke Danish. She taught their two year old to speak Danish first before English so she would be bilingual
my granddaughter here in the Philippines did home school here because the local schools were inferior. My grandson was home schooled in the USA because he had ADHD and was a nerd and was picked on by other kids. My own son was taken out of public school to go to religious schools because he also was abused by other students for not being white.
All of us are "religious" but not crazy religious. (Liberal Catholic and Episopalian).
As a doctor, I reported exactly one home school parent for being overly rigid/strict and I suspected abuse might be happening....one parent out of dozens.
Did this expert quote any scientific surveys to support her opinion? Just wondering.
The Left is always using minorites to advance their agenda. Don't be a bad white, be kind to minorities and send them to public school. You don't want to be a bigot do you?
LOL - does any gullible rube fall for that?
Being nice is Americans kyrptonite. All the leftists have to do is pose something as being "Nice to people" or "Protecting kids" and Americans will go for it. In this case, its protecting kids against child abuse. Who can be against that? What are you, a monster?
"Elizabeth Bartholet...professor of law...at Harvard..." doesn't like "home schooling" so surprising - LOL. Moreover, her issues are "regulation, standards (indoctrination), etc. Don't know about you Ms. Bartholet, but here in California the standards are tougher for 'home schooling' versus 'Union' controlled teaching. Most surveys I've seen have shown that children who are home schooled test better versus public schools, who supposedly meet her 'expert standards'. What a bunch of B.S.
Harvard was once a prestigious university where our Nation’s best and brightest went to become future leaders in America. Today, Harvard is just another overpriced ‘Leninite Indoctrination Camp’ where socialists and communists (like Ms. Bartholet) commiserate about the destruction of Capitalism and Liberty! The 'Let Them Eat Cake'[in Nancy Pelosi's case 'expensive ice cream'] crowd doesn't like their Turf being infringed.
Blogger Michael K said...
A neurosurgeon friend of mine married a girl who was Danish and spoke Danish. She taught their two year old to speak Danish first before English so she would be bilingual
Whatever works but I think languages should be taught simultaneously, not one first before starting the other.
When my 2 kids were growing up, I spoke pretty much only English to them and my wife spoke to them in mostly Spanish. This started even before they were born. Everything else they heard, in school, from friends, TV, aunts and uncles was Spanish. Their English is as good as most anyone from Wisconsin, Texas or wherever.
Ditto my grandkids. But my kids and spouses normally speak Spanish to them. Me and the TV are about the only English they hear and only a few hours in a normal week. But my sons kids (16 & 11) speak very fluent, almost unaccented English.
I already mentioned my daughter's kids (2 & 4) who do very well in both languages. Very good comprehension, some issues with pronunciation but that will improve with age.
Some people (not here), who always seem to only have one language, have criticized this approach. "Oh, it is too confusing." is the general line. "They won't speak either properly."
Yeah, right.
The other night, on a call with my daughter's family, she told the 4 year old, in Spanish "Dile a Grampa que no olvida lavar sus manos" She promptly tells me, in English, "Mama says, don't forget to wash your hands" translating from Spanish to English on the fly. Even my daughter was impressed.
The now 16 year old was doing similar things at that age too.
Nope. I don't see any problems with my approach.
(Apologies for the bragging on my grandkids.)
John Henry
There are more options for advanced classes for homeschoolers than there are for public schoolers.
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False. Depends upon the quality of the public-school district.
Incorrect. Homeschoolers have access to all the same AP and college classes that public schoolers do, plus other options not available to public schoolers. That doesn't mean there aren't excellent public schools. It's good that there are!
"Bartholet notes that some of these parents"
"Some."
"Hey, there's three bad parent out there, therefore I should be able to take away every parent's rights and force my views on them!"
GFY
"Children should “grow up exposed to...democratic values, ideas about nondiscrimination and tolerance of other people's viewpoints.”."
"Bartholet's idea of a "presumptive ban" would put the burden on the parents to meet some sort of standard that would be set by legislation. Do those who are insulting Bartholet support letting parents keep their children out of school on a mere claim that they are educating their children at home?"
1: To the extent that anyone has an "ownership interest" over the kids (other than the kids themselves), said interest is held by their parents. Not by society. Most certainly not be some left wing scumbag at Harvard.
2: The Left is utterly intolerant of opposing viewpoints. See Bartholet advocating the assault on "some parents" because she doesn't like their beliefs. Se "cancel culture". See attempts to remove "microagressions" from society, which in every case is an attempt to stamp out viewpoints the Left does not like.
So, I agree, we should require every educational institution to show tolerance for other beliefs. Which means we need to shut down every public school, Harvard, every other Ivy League School, and most other College and University in the US for their lack of tolerance for conservative views.
3: As racism and sexism are also wrong, and every single "diversity" initiative in education in the US is racist, sexist, or both, we obviously need to shut down any educational institution that has any "diversity" initiatives going, and not allow them to open up until they've fired every single person with "diversity" in their job title, fired every single person working on "diversity", and fired every single administrator who approved of the creation / funding / continuation of such racist and sexists organizations
4: I strongly support instituting objective testing for all school children, that makes sure they've achieved the abilities expected for their grade level.
But, professor Althouse, you seem to, for some unknowable reason, be buying the unsupported claim that public schools are actually educating the children consigned to their power. As there's vast evidence out there that said claim is utter garbage, i'd say a reasonable person would start by demanding that the taxpayer funded public schools must be the first ones to prove the quality of their education.
And to lose all their funding if they're not producing the results
The only statistically significant variable in a child's academic performance is their parents' academic performance. The rest is bull shit.
Actually, the best predictor of a kid's school performance is his race.
The state fellators are here to tell you how grand it is to surrender children to the indoctrination camps.
As a(n) hereditarian, I don't think the type of school matters much, whether private/gummint/home, the result mostly depends on the kid himself, especially when "the result" means something like "success in life".
Note:
Treating people differently because of the color of their skin (or the color of their parents' skin, or grandparents) is racism
Treating people differently because of their sex is sexism
It does not matter what color their skin is. It does not matter whether you are helping or hurting. It does not matter if you are judging more harshly, or less. It doesn't matter what your excuse, justification, or defense is.
If you're doing that, you're a racist. If you're a racist, then you have no moral leg to stand on to criticize other's racism.
Either racism is wrong, in which case you need to end yours. Or racism isn't wrong, in which case the 60s civil rights movement was a fraud, and there's nothing wrong with "white supremacism" or whatever else the left wing racists are calling it this week
I loved this line:
“That means, effectively, that people can homeschool who’ve never gone to school themselves, who don’t read or write themselves.”
How does someone become an adult, in the US, who can't read and write? Other than, you know, by being let in by a horribly lax immigration system (we should stop that), or by attending a crappy public school that didn't educate you?
Oh, that's right, "Karen" Bartholet doesn't actually care if children are educated. Only that they be indoctrinated with her political views.
Just another propaganda article. Devoid of much deep thought.
https://fee.org/articles/harvard-magazine-calls-for-a-presumptive-ban-on-homeschooling-here-are-5-things-it-got-wrong/
The thing I had to delete accused Westover of keeping something out of her book which is IN the book. I don't want that assertion here on this blog.
I can't keep track of ever possible defamation put out here, but that was glaring and I am angry to see it.
If you don't like my clearing that out of here, write your own blog.
Wow, I didn’t think this discussion would become an arms race between public school and homeschool advocates.
Why not both/and? One size really does not fit all. My 2 STEM majors assure me that their (now) online classes are a poor substitute for in class labs and interactions with their profs and other students. Homeschool students have access to many options online, but it’s not really the same. My younger children agree. OTOH, homeschool until age 6 (they all had summer birthdays) was great for my children. I taught them basic reading and math, and we had fun doing experiments in the kitchen. They entered Kindergarten reading on 2-3rd grade level. But I was only able to make progress with my autistic child after she was placed into our district’s PPCD program. She was blessed with well-trained teachers who gave her the structure and self-regulation skills that made learning possible.
Growing up, school was a respite from the dysfunction at home (an alcoholic parent and all the codependency that entails), and home was a respite from the bullying and dysfunction at school. I shudder to think what homeschool would have been for my husband, who grew up with a domineering, mentally ill mom. He was the guinea pig for all her dabbling in witchcraft. He was never a popular kid, but school was a refuge of sanity for him.
@Jamie (if you're still around)
I hope you and yours are doing well, and that everyone is safe and healthy. So far so good on our end.
By the way, I am a public school teacher, and I believe in competition and parental choice. I support vouchers, charters and home schooling.
If we can't compete as public schools then maybe we shouldn't exist.
Fernandistein:
Are you claiming the race of the child is independent of the race of the parents? That seems... odd.
And you are wrong, to boot. I have run the regressions. There is only one statistically significant variable. Just the one.
Elizabeth Bartholet is either ignorant of the subject on which she's preaching or intentionally dishonest. Those are the only two options.
And judging homeschoolers on the behavior of the extreme problem cases seems unwise. Over 800 reports of sexual assault, activity or correspondence from teachers to students in the NYC area this year. Applying the usual multiple between reports and probable cases points to an epidemic.
Bartholet's idea of a "presumptive ban" would put the burden on the parents to meet some sort of standard that would be set by legislation.
What is the basis for this faith in the wisdom of legislators?
One of the biggest problems with education is the fact that everyone went to school, so everyone thinks that they're an expert on education.
Take Common Core. Now, at it's base, there is nothing wrong with Common Core. It is sound academically. However it is education designed by those who love education. It provides deeper understanding of the concepts involved. But especially in math, it is more difficult to learn and more time consuming. The people who run education have made the decision that using the easiest and most efficient ways to learn the skills is no longer the preference. I believe that this is a mistake. The vast majority of students have no need to have a deep understanding of the concepts...they just need basic numeracy. The same to a lesser degree with literacy. (I do support teaching critical thinking skills) those students who do want to explore that deeper understanding can take honors and AP courses.
Common Core is very much a case of trying to teach AP material to everyone.
"Wow, I didn’t think this discussion would become an arms race between public school and homeschool advocates."
It didn't. There was one person, since deleted, who tried to characterize it that way.
I agree with you, Gahrie. Different options for different kids and families.
Five daughters without a governess? Your mother must have been a slave to your education.
Judging from my daughter's Delaware school experience, there is no actual educational system here, though we do seem to have a jim dandy system of indoctrination and baby sitting. I do believe that I would, at this point, take my chances on the private or familial sector every time.
Online education is about to become a viable option as a bridge between homeschooling and traditional schools. It will also involve what is called a flipped classroom. You don't need a teacher to read a textbook or watch a lecture. Students will learn new concepts on their own, and then go online to do the homework/practice collaboratively, with access to a teacher to help overcome problems and correct mistakes.
Over time, this will become the norm, and schools as we know them today will be seen as an affection of the wealthy. Which they will be.
Pants @ 8:28am,
Your nights and weekends summary inexplicably omitted "and screwing like rabbits".
omitted "and screwing like rabbits".
Right before I read that, the woman on "MI5" said "screwing like bunnies."
Formal schooling has multiple functions. Its custodial function is its least noble, and the
primary source of its inefficiency. It has come to serve as a tool of acculturation that is indistinguishable from propaganda.
Those parents who take on te huge burdens of custody by rejecting formal schooling are unlikely to have bad motives. They should be assisted with readily available curricular tools.
I have had experience with two kinds of home schooled students. I have met outstanding students, those who won state level competitions with public schooled students, who were well socialized and could carry on an adult conversation in the 9th grade. This when public school students ignored adults if they could. However, as a public school middle school teacher, I saw students whose parents could not deal with them at home, and after a year or so dumped them back on the school system. These kids were totally unprepared to fit in a classroom environment at their grade level. These are the kids that most public school teachers see, and it gives them a negative opinion of homeschooling.
Yeah, so Elizabeth Bartholet is interested in "protecting children". Protecting them...from what, exactly? If protection of children is one of her interests, is it not also the interest of parents who homeschool their kids? Who gets to define the word "protection"?
One of her great grievances against homeschooling is a dominating socio-religious makeup of the homeschooling population--conservative Christianity. She seems to lump them in a stew of closed-minded bigotry and misogyny; her view is not bigoted at all, I guess.
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