I'd read out an NPR headline, "Trump Impeachment Process Was 'Absolutely Worth It,' Schiff Says" — because I thought it was funny — so the subject was how the Democratic Party reacts after it focuses hate on a Republican President.
Meade and I lived through the Nixon hate fest in the 1970s. What did the Democratic Party give us after the hated Nixon withdrew from the scene? We got Jimmy Carter as a President, a notorious failure, and then 2 candidates who failed to win the presidency — Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis.
I said "I liked Dukakis," and I really did at the time. I offered that Buttigieg reminds me of Dukakis. Something about his manner and his voice and style of speech. All of that was made to order for my taste.
Meade said: "Oh, I liked Dukakis. I like Buttigieg. I've finally lived long enough to realize I don't want a President I like."
If you're thinking of trying to top Meade's line by saying "I want a President who likes me," Meade already said that too, but I think "I don't want a President I like" is the more important concept here.
ADDED: From a PBS webpage:
The "other guy" was President Ronald Reagan. Neither Meade nor I liked Ronald Reagan. [CORRECTION: The other guy was George H.W. Bush. Meade and I did not like him either. Meade still doesn't like him: "He wasn't good enough."]
Michael Dukakis was Governor of Massachusetts. He was succeeded in office by William Weld, who's running for President right now, in the Republican primaries, challenging Donald Trump. The next elected Governor of Massachusetts was none other than Mitt Romney. After Mitt Romney came Deval Patrick, and he's running in the Democratic Party primaries right now.
Somehow, Governors of Massachusetts keep thinking they should be our President. There's a funny old NYT column about that. Hang on a second.
AND: How many newspaper columns stick in your mind for 30+ years? Here it is, "Well, if It Isn't the Governor of Massachusetts" by Veronica Geng (Sept. 22, 1988).
My boyfriend, Ed, has authorized me to tell this personal story about us, because it bears on the Presidential campaign. A few years ago I developed an infatuation with someone else, and then it fizzled out - mainly because of the shrewd way Ed handled the situation. He just began referring to this other guy, whose name he knew perfectly well, as ''the Governor of Massachusetts'' (which he wasn't). I'd come home on cloud nine, and Ed would say, ''So, did you have fun with the Governor of Massachusetts?'' This would deflate me....
I'd forgotten this until recently, when I noticed on TV that George Bush constantly refers to Michael Dukakis not by name but simply as ''the Governor of Massachusetts.'' Now, obviously, Dukakis is the Governor of Massachusetts, on the literal level. But Bush uses the term on the Ed level, as if he might be insinuating something. So I brought it up with Ed. I said I'd always thought that he, Ed, had invented the expression as a unique strategy to influence my psychological reality, via-a-vis that other guy, and now I found it ironic to hear Bush - quite a different man from Ed and operating in a quite different arena - coming up with the same strategy in the same words.
Well, it turns out that I was under a delusion. Ed did not invent the expression ''Governor of Massachusetts.'' He admitted freely that ''Governor of Massachusetts'' is a traditional playground insult among boys. He said grown men continue to use it as a form of macho invective, because they remember that when they were kids it was considered the worst thing you could call another kid.
I said I found it hard to believe I'd never heard this expression around if it was so common, and he said women just don't notice it. They hear it, but don't register what it means. He then cited a whole raft of examples - like the Clint Eastwood movie where Clint rides into town and the corrupt sheriff says loudly, ''Well, well, well, looks like we got us a courtesy call by the Governor of Massachusetts,'' and then Clint has to wipe out the whole town in revenge....
Ed says no real man would toss the phrase around as lightly as Bush does. And if Bush thinks it will curry favor with male voters (while keeping women voters in the dark, please note), he's playing with fire. Because if Dukakis ever becomes sure in his mind that Bush's words have the slightest whiff of sincerity behind them, Dukakis will have to retaliate viciously.....
But Ed thinks this unlikely. He thinks Bush is just cynically using the term ''Governor of Massachusetts'' to whip up connotations of a guy in silk knee-britches presiding over a bunch of quilting-bee habituees and the like, all strolling around the village green eating fried fish and discussing pamphlets written with feathers. Nasty, but not the kind of stuff that gets you where you live.
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Andy Rooney said something like, “I don’t want a president who’s nice. I want a mean old man whose going to be careful with my money.”
My preference would be to have a president I like, who shares my views on things such as religion, family, etc. But that's so far behind having a President who accomplishes what I want, that I can't even see "like" in the rear-view mirror.
That's nonsense. It's like saying I don't want a friend that I like.
It’ll be a long time before Republicans nominate another Massachusetts governor.
So, Ms. Althouse, what do you think of Reagan today?
I don't know any of them well enough to like or dislike them, as a person. Dukakis was the original sanctimonious technocrat, but seemed like a genuinely nice guy. Hillary - yikes - is a nightmare of a person that I wouldn't want to ever be in the presence of. Trump is the loud, brash New Yorker that I find obnoxious, but he's been a tremendous POTUS in terms of accomplishing what I care about.
My like or dislike of these presidential candidates is focused on what they do or what I expect them to do. Voting for POTUS isn't a popularity contest for me.
Browndog said...
I usually start with a President that is honest. Or at least, some sense of morality will constrain him from evil deeds while in power.
John Quincy Adams
John F Kennedy
Robert F Kennedy
Mike Ducacus
John F Kerry
Mitt Romney
Lizzy Warren
Can't we All Agree, that politicians from Massachusetts are slimy pieces of CRAP?
That's just noticing that feelings don't work at the national level. They work in neighborhoods.
I like Trump and dislike the others, so it all depends on how you reason. Trump wouldn't be the choice for president of a neighborhood association though.
Why did you throw John Q in there? He got us Florida, which is nice.
Since I started reading history for entertainment-bored with fiction-thirty some odd years ago, I just want a president that will protect and defend our constitution. All of it. Even the inconvenient parts.
Gonna digress here. The meme on the left is to try and destroy the electoral college. When I ask my lefty colleagues if they know why it is included in the constitution, the standard answer is, " The concept is outdated and needs to scrapped." Most of them haven't even read the documents. I gave a leftist friend a copy of the Federalist Papers. It was "Too long" and the "language was hard to understand."
Jesus.
From the linked PBS article: "Heading out of the Democratic National Convention in July 1988, and with only a few months to go until the election, Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis was beating his Republican rival George H.W. Bush by 17 points in the polls."
17 points!
I like Amy Klobuchar a lot. She would make a fantastic president... of our neighborhood association!
"I like Amy Klobuchar a lot."
She's likable enough.
Hillary was likable enough. Obama was way too likable.
It's one thing to hold socialist/commie ideals...
It's another thing entirely to put them into practice.
Calvin Coolidge was a good prez for his time.
rastajenk said...
Why did you throw John Q in there? He got us Florida, which is nice.
I "like" John Q, but along with Florida; he got us Andy Jackson.
If you were a killer or rapist locked up and randy in the pants, there was a lot to like about Dukakis, who would spring you for the weekend to go get your jollies.
Dukakis didn't just enforce this policy: he defended it after every vicious furlough-abetted crime and vetoed legislation to end it. He denounced furlough opponents as racists. By the time he was running for president, dozens of incarcerated rapists and murderers had already "escaped" from imprisonment while sprung personally by Dukakis in what became an obsessed crusade for the worst criminals. At least 76 serious violent offenders fled custody directly through Dukakis' furloughs; many others escaped while on modified "incarceration," and he commuted the sentences of dozens of murderers and rapists. Police, judges, and strong majorities of state elected officials opposed Dukakis' furloughs and other leniencies, but he refused to waiver.
How does such a sick, warped person become an "unremarkable" presidential candidate?
Ralph L said...
Calvin Coolidge was a good prez for his time.
Point taken, though i was lumping him in as Vermont
Serious Question:
Should a President be considered as being from his Birth Place, or where he was when he took office?
Is Lincoln from Kentucky? Or Illinois?
Is Reagan from Illinois? Or California?
opinions, anyone?
Is Lincoln from Kentucky? Or Illinois?
Is Reagan from Illinois? Or California?
As a native Illinoisan, I'm saying both are Illini.
A hallmark of those who are successful in a public life is the ability to turn on a nearly-irresistible charm in the presence of others when needed.
This is true of Hillary, Bob Knight (or Nick Saban) and Donald Trump. And anyone else you can think of.
There is a Politico article about Political Scientist Rachel Bitecofer. She doesn't seem all that impressive and the article is of a fawning type Politico writes when lefties need a boost- that Princeton guy that had to eat a bug because he said Hillary had a 99 percent chance is a quotable authority in this story..
Anyways, there were some interesting takeaways for me. First, it's the first time I've seen repeated the idea I've had that there is no Jim Comey squishy middle that decides elections. Rather it is the change in the people that vote and stay home that matters. Obama didn't win by appealing to the middle he motivated non voters to turn out, for example.
Second, she correctly notes that in applying this idea it doesn't matter who Democrats nominate since the electorate that will be motivated to vote already favors Democrats. Now I'm not a big believer, but it should serve as a warning to those Republicans thinking a vote for Bernie in the primaries is a good idea. If you reject the squishy middle model it's possible, even likely Bernie could win, Democrats could take back the Senate and have a clean path to implement his policies.
Imagine if Bernie chooses a running mate like a Stacey Abrams or other minority motivator to tip the scales in turnout. Especially when there are voters who are capable of thinking and acting on the idea I don't want a President that I like.
I assume we're talking about non-incumbents, since no one knows how a President will govern.
Trump could have easily governed as a liberal on social policies, knowing what we knew about his background and social circles. But, he was brutally honest, and his policy positions on trade, jobs, and immigration with "America First" as a mantra won the day.
I love Trump. But, if that same guy was implementing liberal policies, I'd despise him.
Tina points out that ...
By the time he was running for president, dozens of incarcerated rapists and murderers had already "escaped" from imprisonment while sprung personally by Dukakis in what became an obsessed crusade for the worst criminals.
Not only That, When asked about it, National TV; he said (and This a direct Quote
"I never worry about that! My wife is Too Godawful UGLY to be raped; anyone Wants to, more power to them!"
So, you're finally warming up to Trump, prof?
I think you share a lot in common with him. People who are a lot like us often irritate us.
The more I've read about Coolidge through my life, the more I'm convinced he was a great man and a great President.
I used to have a photo of the tank helmet Dukakis wore, ensconced in a museum case atop a pedestal.
Ever my response to the constant “who would you rather have beer with?”: I don’t care. I’m never having a beer with any of them.
Tina Trent said...
"How does such a sick, warped person become an "unremarkable" presidential candidate?"
Massachusetts Governor Mike Dukakis didn't exactly charm his way into voters' hearts during the 1988 debates with his response about whether he would support the death penalty should his wife, Kitty, be raped and murdered. A longtime opponent of the death penalty, Dukakis responded to the startling question from CNN's Bernard Shaw, "No, I don't, Bernard, and I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life. I don't see any evidence that it's a deterrent and I think there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime." While some criticized the fairness of the question, to viewers the answer seemed both dispassionate and dismissive. Years later, Dukakis would recall his response, saying, "I have to tell you, and maybe I'm just still missing it ... I didn't think it was that bad."
Dukakis' response wasn't bad; it was just radically different than how most people thought about it.
Ann Althouse said: "She's likable enough."
Heh heh heh heh......
Poor Kitty Dukakis.
Does this go for clothes, too?
Meade no longer wants clothes that he likes, only those that like him.
No more mini man wearing big/normal man coats?
So,Veronica was living with Ed when she was going out with the Governor of Massachusetts?
Typical Dems.
Wilbur said, "The more I've read about Coolidge through my life, the more I'm convinced he was a great man and a great President."
Amen. Doing nothing is a high bar!
I like skinny butts, but that so ipso doesn't mean I want one in the White House though.
Wilbur said...
The more I've read about Coolidge through my life, the more I'm convinced he was a great man and a great President.
Agreed. I bought the media narrative they put out after Obama ridiculed him. Turns out he was the opposite of what they said he was. imagine that.
Eo ipso not so ipso. Damn tablet is racist against Latin.
Looking back through my life, I think that the Presidential candidates I have liked have been Truman, Goldwater, maybe Reagan, GW Bush, and Trump. Next tier would probably be Bill Clinton (as long as his wife is kept a long distance away), Bob Dole, Ford, and GHW Bush. Maybe throw in the Hump after that. And Eisenhower. On the flip side, I would put Crooked Hillary, LBJ, AlGore, Kerry, Nixon at the bottom of my list. Right above them would probably be JFK and Obama. Maybe McCain.
I think that it is interesting to me that Crooked Hillary is lower on my list than LBJ, who was maybe the crudest, most dislikable person to have run in the last 60 years, plus he destroyed the black family, with his War on Poverty, while being responsible for killing most of the 58k Americans who died in Vietnam. As his opponent in 64, Goldwater, essentially said, you either fight to win, or you get out. You don’t fight an attrition war with American lives, esp if you have nuclear weapons, and both air and naval supremacy, as he did. Nixon May have been greatly flawed, but he won the war that LBJ so bungled. When I started college in 68, LBJ killed 16,899 Americans that year. When I graduated in 72, there were 759, and two years later, only one.
The current crowd of Dem candidates are generally detestable, with the glaring exception of Tulsi. Buttplug is just a little less detestable than the rest of the top tier remaining candidates (I don’t put Amy there, but she doesn’t have a chance either). Biden and Warren are nasty pieces of work, while Sanders comes across as anti American, maybe worse than Obama there.
Coolidge's Big Fault (imo) was refusing to run for reelection
Because of Coolidge's EGO; we got stuck with a Quaker, from West Branch Iowa
When all we get is the media spin, biased as it is toward the left, who's to say any politician is likable? We get Trump relatively unfiltered through Twitter (assuming he actually does author his own tweets), but most of what we know about Presidential candidates is what the Praetorian Guard in the press allows us to know. I don't care if they're likable. All I care, is whether I agree with what they say they'll do, whether they have a history of following through on promises, and if they show an ability to get legislation effecting those promises enacted into law.
Shouting Thomas said...
As a native Illinoisan, I'm saying both are Illini.
So, as a native Illinoisan, do you claim O'Bama too ? ; )
All Dukakis had to do was preface his answer with something like, "of course I'd want to kill the mutha fucker with my bare hands and watch life leave him, but here is why I'm opposed to the death penalty...".
Had never heard that "Governor of Massachusetts" thing used as a taunt, pretty damn funny story.
Just saw the Bloomberg commercial with Obama. It will be a three person race in Milwaukee: Bernie, Pete and Mike.
I read the Shlaes biography of Coolidge. He was a good man, but that's the only bio of Coolidge I will ever read. Not much drama in his life or his tenure....Warren Harding comes in for a lot of obloquy, but he was a far better president than his predecessor Woodrow Wilson. It can be argued that Wilson got the most praise for making some of the most fatefully bad decisions of any American president in the twentieth century.
We had 7 straight terms of what were some of weakest Presidents in American history from 1989 to 2017. Cheney excepted, the VPs were all also weak. We are fortunate America was not in even worse condition in 2016. I'm also inclined to believe this was the period when the 'Deep State' coalesced, taking advantage of persistent weakness in the White House to buttress their own extra-constitutional power and reach.
The *second* longest spell of weak Presidents was only 3 straight terms, from 1849 to 1861, and it certainly did not end well.
“Hillary was likable enough.”
Not really, in my view. It has repeatedly been said that when she was living in the WH as 1st Lady, the staff was instructed to move to the side of the hall, eyes down, and forbidden to make eye contact. And they were summarily fired if they transgressed. Nasty piece of work. Contrast that to the Bushes, who made the staff part of their extended family, and GWB likely not only knew their names, but that of their families. She showed her ethics early, when she advocated Schifting Nixon, as was done with Trump, depriving the (Republican) President Due Process of counsel. And it went downhill from there. About the only positive thing that I have ever honestly heard about her was that she loved her daughter and grandchildren.
"So,Veronica was living with Ed when she was going out with the Governor of Massachusetts?"
It doesn't say she was living with him at the time.
It used to be completely normal for a woman to have multiple suitors. They had to vie for her favor. Now, it's considered wrong to be comparing options? How did that happen? Too much living together?
Hillary ROdham was born in Illinois, am I right? I assign Lincoln to IL, Reagan to CA, Obama to IL, and Rodham to NY.
It used to be completely normal for a woman to have multiple suitors.
That's a retirement fund for Maury Povich.
Hillary ROdham was born in Illinois, am I right? I assign Lincoln to IL, Reagan to CA, Obama to IL, and Rodham to NY.
If you see ten troubles coming down the road, you can be sure that nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.
Calvin Coolidge
What's not to like about a guy who says that?
Had never heard that "Governor of Massachusetts" thing used as a taunt
Me either, and my peers had some doozies. Beau Brummel Baby as a taunt a few times, but that's as close as I can recall...
“slimy pieces of CRAP?”
What do you have against JQ Adams?
What a great article by Geng, thanks for digging that up! I assume she made up the Clint reference which makes it even better. And that was decades before Clint did his empty chair routine to rattle the former Governor of Massachusetts’ campaign.
What politicians project as their personality is irrelevant to me.
What they project as their understanding of America and the role of the POTUS is what it is all about.
If I like the latter, I like the politician. I do not care about their supposed personalities.
Where/when I grew up, if you called someone a "Governor of Massachusetts" or "Beau Brummel baby" you would've gotten a bunch of WTF looks.
I just turned 66 and I've never heard either of those taunts in my life.
Meade nailed it.
I was on the road yesterday for business and a friend texted me, "You watching Trump?" during Trump's interesting East Room gathering. My friend is an avowed Liberal who actually watches CNN for his information. (I honestly did not know people still did that). So I knew where he was coming from with his question. He HATES Trump.
I answered: No. I was on the road. But honestly, I can't stand to hear Trump speak. I love him as President. But I don't want to hear him speak.
Like Meade, I don't need to like my President. I need to like what he (or she) is doing while in office. (Meade, I'm not saying you like what Trump is doing.)
Coolidge was a Governor of Massachusetts. I'm seeing some deplorable hypocrisy in the way that "Governor of Massachusetts" epithet is thrown around. I'd like to see each Governor of Massachusetts judged by the content of his character and not the elective office he holds....The only thing I remember from the Shlaes bio is that Coolidge's wife was very attractive. She had a flirtation with the Secret Service agent on assignment. That agent ended up on assignment in Alaska. If Coolidge treated a flirtation like that, you can only imagine the wrath he would visit upon a rapist. It's an unfair stereotype to depict all Governors of Massachusetts as the type who would not take offense at someone who raped their wife.
Althouse said "It used to be completely normal for a woman to have multiple suitors. They had to vie for her favor. Now, it's considered wrong to be comparing options? How did that happen? Too much living together?"
It used to be normal for younger women to marry older men. When feminism killed that off, the pool of suitors shrank considerably.
I can't say that I've ever thought too much about whether I like a president or not. The engineer in me tends to think more about if they will get things done - the right things that is,
Can't believe anyone like Hillary!
Surprised Ann and Meade didn't like Reagan more. He was immensely popular as President, probably the most popular president of my lifetime. He regularly went over the head of Congress and went directly to the people, until Congress finally gave up. I'm speaking of his first term more than his second.
Our Beloved Professor Althouse said, response to this question...
"So,Veronica was living with Ed when she was going out with the Governor of Massachusetts?"
It doesn't say she was living with him at the time.
Yes, BUT it EXPLICITLY says:
I'd come home on cloud nine, and Ed would say
She might Not have been "Living With Him", but; when she'd come home... There he'd Be!
She'd come home, Ed would be there... Do i Have to draw you a map*
I'm thinking a Venn diagram should suffice
I want a city councilman I like. And the County Board of Supervisor, He could like me. (two of them actually do). But the President? IF, if, our govt is truly a republic practicing federalism, the President shouldn't give a shit what I like. Of the President, generally, enforce federalism. That will keep you out of 99% of my business. That's what I like.
What a hilarious column- very well-written! I guess that is what the NYT used to be.
There's a wonkishness in Pete that Dukakis had as well. You can see in the way they talk and in what they talk about. The joke about Dukakis was that his "beach book" was Swedish Land Use Planning. Buttigieg seems like the one candidate this time who might take an interest in that (though Warren would say that she has a plan for that).
Dukakis was accused of being bloodless, too intellectual to be in touch with his real feelings (let alone anybody else's feelings). This came out in Dukakis's unemotional non-response when newsman Bernard Shaw asked him if he would support the death penalty for someone who had hypothetically raped and murdered his wife. The "Hey, I'm an ordinary guy here running against an unfeeling robot and elitist" idea did a lot to humanize Bush and his son went on to use that strategy in 2000, to the country's misfortune.
Like Dukakis, Buttigieg comes across as being intellectual (or at least verbal), rather than intuitive or authentic. The first comparison I made, though, was to Jimmy Carter, the inexperienced outsider coming to Washington to clean out the mess. That applies to Trump, too, but Carter and Buttigieg share a tendency to talk religiously and self-righteously: there's something in their tone that Trump doesn't share. I sense a wild overconfidence in Buttigieg and don't think he's really prepared for the job. You could see that in Carter as well, and that didn't work out well for the country.
When I see Pete I also think of John Edwards. The Golden Boy, Silky Pony thing. The attempt to project an aura of youth. The hair. Even something about the face. And a feeling that they aren't what they claim to be but something lesser or smaller. Mostly, though, I sense a common flim-flammery or phoniness. That's a common feeling people have about politicians they dislike, so I don't expect everyone to share it, but there's something about some politicians more than others that makes people suspect fakery. It's overconfidence again, and glibness or whatever it is that people are talking about when they say "Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth."
Nobody who claims to have liked Dukakis and disliked Reagan can be taken seriously. Have you ever met Mike Dukakis? I have, his father in law owned a condo about 3 doors down from me at the Cape. Mike is a dick.
She was definitely stepping out on Ed. That's the vibe I got.
Probably a test of his mettle... which he passed.
Which Clint Eastwood movie featured the Gov. Of Massachusetts insult? High Plains Drifter??
I liked Ike.
It's pretty clear when elected officials don't like us. All those sourpusses in white dresses clenching their fists at good economic news while nosing the high-end government trough. It's not a good look.
What are you from Poughkeepsie? Them's playground fighting words.
"The next elected Governor of Massachusetts was none other than Mitt Romney."
Paul Celluci was elected Governor of Massachusetts in 1998, after Bill Weld and before Mitt Romney. Don't worry about whether he will run for President, he's dead. But Governor Charlie Baker lives ...
Wow, NYTimes columnists wrote funny and memorable columns way back when! Thanks for sharing that. Now all the columnists write the same thing: Trump is Bad, v. 1403.
This comparison of Rubin columns made me laugh though.
weld was also the us atty supervising mueller, when bulger was on the rampage, what appealed about Dukakis?
I didn't think it was that bad.
A politician can't come across as not caring about people or caring about an abstract idea more than people.
Also, don't pose in a tank.
"It's pretty clear when elected officials don't like us. All those sourpusses in white dresses clenching their fists at good economic news while nosing the high-end government trough. It's not a good look."
Very true. And in their case, not only do they not like us, they overtly proudly contemptuously despise us.
If you didn't like Ronald Reagan, the greatest president of the 20th century, there is no point in trying to convince you. His works speak for themselves.
To those thinking calling someone “The Governor of Massachusetts” is or ever was a common playground insult—you totally missed a very clever joke. .
Didn't like Bush, didn't like Reagan. liked Dukakis, voted for Obama, didn't vote for Trump.....weird how cruel neutrality ends up in partisan results...……...
I'm not interested in getting in the sandbox with the other guy.
Buttigeig should avoid this slogan.
He admitted freely that ''Governor of Massachusetts'' is a traditional playground insult among boys.
What neighborhood did he grow up in? If a kid said that when I was a kid, we taunt him for such a lame insult.
Likeability?? Overrated!!! Yes it is slightly important. Slightly. Likability is superficial. Character and Competence are to the core.
Looking for a likeable person is all well and good when you are contemplating a date, a friend to have lunch with, a person to chat with.
Hiring someone to do something important for you? Build your house. Do surgery on your body. Even repair your houses plumbing. Do you want a likeable guy, or do you want someone who knows WTF they are doing and can get the job done in time and under budget. It is great if your plumber is both competent and likeable. Mine is :-D
Not to go all rhhardin on you guys, but many women tend to look at the superficiality of a man (or woman) that they want to be attracted to. How they look. What do they wear. Do they "ACT" nice. Instead of looking at the actions of that person. The deep down character that is the true self.
That's why they (the superficial chooser) woman ends up with the handsome, cheating, abusive dickhead. Then they wonder why every guy they hook up with is the same.
Hint ladies (Democrats) it isn't him...it is YOU.
I take competent and character over superficial qualities anytime.
I don't care whether I like the president or not, but I hate the current thing where we as American people are supposed to look to our president as some sort of best friend and lifestyle guru. Interestingly, the presidents who we look to in history, we have no idea if Jeremiah and Elizabeth Smith of Mahoning County Ohio really *liked* him or not
It used to be completely normal for a woman to have multiple suitors. They had to vie for her favor. Now, it's considered wrong to be comparing options? How did that happen?
I thought it was all supposed to be about love and desire, not transactional. Guys aren't even supposed to want sex if she doesn't...right?
Temujin said...
"(Meade, I'm not saying you like what Trump is doing.)"
Thanks. I know you're not. But I do.
Pete and Mike both ran on their nicknames. Buttigieg and Dukakis both have last unusual names with scatological connotations. But I get a similar vibe from the two of them. They are both "elitist" and probably unpleasant people to be around, but if you just read what opponents say about them, you might come to think that Pete and Mike are each scrappy underdogs with something admirable about their ambition and combativeness. If you are exposed every day to the abuse that people on the Internet throw at politicians, everybody in politics starts to look better than they are.
I didn't like Dukakis as governor, but I did feel better about him than about creepy CIA millionaire Bush. Bush started to look better to me when he ran against Clinton, but he rest of the country didn't agree (frowny face emoji).
You don't look for likable in a lawyer either.
When you need a lawyer you just want to open the cage door and point.
Socialist ideas sound good until you implement them. Socialist candidates seem appealing until you elect them.
Capitalist ideas are made to sound scary until you realize those ideas have been in place for centuries and have provided our prosperity.
100 million Russians, Chinese, Cambodians and Eastern Europeans were unavailable for comment.
In fact, to my 4-years-ago self's great surprise: I LOVE what Trump is doing.
I take competent and character over superficial qualities anytime.
Sounds like a Bloomberg ad.
Note: I am not picking on rhhardin. I like him. He reminds me of my brother (computer systems analyst, programmer, slightly autistic) who has a sharp wit, clean insight and cuts to the chase with very few words.
You can fake sincerity. You can fake likeability.
Bill Clinton was great at it. Hillary sucked at it and no one was buying her fake act.
People may not like Trump. Think he is an ass. Wish he would not do some things. But....he is getting the job done. That is way more important than being a polished politician or wax dummy like Romney.
me: "I take competent and character over superficial qualities anytime."
Sounds like a Bloomberg ad.
Except for the character part.
Meade said...
In fact, to my 4-years-ago self's great surprise: I LOVE what Trump is doing.
Right? I remember my sister, my niece, and I walking around Chicago, trying to figure out who to vote for in the primaries so that we could just stop Trump! And now I'm perfectly happy with him being president.
4 years ago I loathed both of the eventual nominees of the 2 major parties. Thank goodness, at the last minute, I and few thousand other voters like me in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania didn't peel off and vote for someone we did "like." Like Jill Stein or Gary Johnson.
I got it! A name we can pronounce and spell beside "Mayor Pete".
Buttikakis!
Except for the character part.
I'm talking about the ads, not the real Mike Bloomberg (if there is one).
"Bill Clinton was great at [faking likability]. Hillary sucked at it and no one was buying her fake act."
All true. But the essential difference between Bill Clinton and Hillary is that, unlike Hillary, Obama, Pelosi, Schiff, et al., Bill Clinton, does not hate America and Americans.
Bill Clinton, does not hate America and Americans
He loves Americans. He's loved Americans.
Weird. You claim to like all the decades of democrat pols... and the conservatives are never good enough. why? If you prefer leftwing socialist collectivist politics, then how could a squishy so-called conservative not be good enough?
GHW Bush is the perfect example of a likable boring moderate.
Dukakais was a proud card carrying member of the ACLU. He let killers out on parole to kill again and was OK with that. "You can't make an omelette.." Plus he had all the charisma of a CPA. He's the the kind of guy you want heading up the EPA - not standing Toe to Toe with the russkies.
I can remember all the nauseating hype about how wonderful "Kitty" was. Then we learned she was a nut who swallowed drano.
Kitty used to regularly pass out on the beach before noon.
"Bill Clinton, does not hate America and Americans."
Bill didnt' fight for America, he fought for Poontang. Numerous trips to Epstein's island. which has been swept under the rug.
Then the jazzy likable saxophone playing smooth talking 'I feel your pain' southern swagger swaggered in.
I never voted for Bill Clinton. Saw right thru his facade. He and his wife are both phonies. Bill was better at fooling people. He was amazing at it. Like hollywood.
Hollywood and the media have great power manipulating minds.
Meade said: But the essential difference between Bill Clinton and Hillary is that, unlike Hillary, Obama, Pelosi, Schiff, et al., Bill Clinton, does not hate America and Americans.
Agreed. I thought that Clinton wasn't too bad as a President at all. Pretty awful on a personal level but you get the sense that he really cared about America and the people. (especially the good looking women....sorry....couldn't help myself there)
In retrospect the 1998 election was like 1976, an election without a choice.
Clinton was only a "good President" because he had a Republican congress keeping him in check. He tried to give us a 90's version of Obamacare, but couldn't get it through congress.
Buttigeig comes across to me as a box checker, a complete creation, like "Mayor Pete for President" is a character he plays. Obama was like that.
Trump the person is a nostalgia thing. To me, he's always New York City, and it's always 1976. The great shining hucksterism of America that doesn't take itself too seriously.
The biggest lie among many is that Trump incites violence among his followers. His rallies are safe places filled with happy, decent people who sometimes have to be escorted past choreographed rioters outside.
In contrast, I watched an old lady get roughed up by Nation of Islam thugs at a tiny Bill Clinton rally in Atlanta, and Hillary and Tipper and Al and the Secret Service agents peered down from the stage and did nothing about it, even though they all saw it happening.
They just kept doing their creepy version of the electric slide.
My claim that Ann is a 60s liberal to the core has been verified by this post.
The comments here from born again trump haters shows you that the Trump presidency has been spectacular.
He loves Americans. He's loved Americans.
The distaff side particularly.
Insty has a post on Hickenlooper.
He was a bad boy.
Me, I liked Reagan's "There's gotta be a pony in there somewhere" story much better.
I do agree that Buttigreig reminds us of better times/better candidates. He is far left policy wise, but he is the least offensive of the bunch. Tho - I do recall some offensive comments from Pete about how conservative Christians are not real Christians. How they are not good enough. That sentiment is very offensive.
I can see the arguments, both for and against the inclusion of Calvin Coolidge as a president from Massachusetts. But what I don't understand is how nobody objected to the list starting with John Q. Adams as if John Adams didn't exist and was not one of the great presidents.
—Bill Clinton, does not hate America and Americans
He loves Americans. He's loved Americans.—
As long as you’re a certain sex and age.
Dude’s a 60s boomer lefty and sold us out to China.
Well, we know what he is. It was there in the 60 Minutes interview in 1990.
All positive emotions about ol' Bill were planted by Hollywood and the press.
They are not real.
How's about a pair of pink sidewinders
And a bright orange pair of pants?
"Well, you could really be a Beau Brummel, baby
If you just give it half a chance"
That's the only place I've heard that phrase and I've never heard "Gov of Mass" as a taunt. Was that essay fiction? Made up as a lukewarm defense or sly hit job on Dukakis?
80s was not the “decade of greed.” It was the 90s.
Guess who the poster woman is.
Oh damn, I should get me some cattle futures.
Why would I like them? That would be similar to liking an actor because of the role that they play. I don’t know any of these people, I only know what they choose to present and I believe that is mostly a self-serving lie. I find Trump appalling, but I enjoy some of the things he says and does (I love some of the results he’s getting). It doesn’t present as self-serving but he makes it into an advantage. So what isn’t self-serving becomes exactly that.
I want a return to a Constitutionally limited Federal government so that I don't have to regularly even THINK about who's President, much less care if he/she is likable.
"It can be argued that Wilson got the most praise for making some of the most fatefully bad decisions of any American president in the twentieth century." FDR: "Hold my beer."
I like Trump but I don’t love him. What I like most about him is he is the Un-Romney. He’s also the Un-Every Republican I’ve know since Reagan. They all were monkeys in the organ grinder’s game, the organ grinder being the media/left. The organ grinder controlled them. Trump controls the organ grinder. But he isn’t the monkey: he’s King Kong.
Bill Clinton did used to really like people. He and Gingrich brought the same sort of positive energy to politics, after living similar tough childhoods. Gingrich still enthuses about futurism and other weird things.
It's a long way from there to Mayor Pete concern-trolling Christians who don't genuflect before him.
There's an Obama-level humorlessness posing as intelligence in Mayor Pete. Everything I didn't like about Obama seems to be repackaged in him. And even the repackaging is calculated: listen to Pete imitate Obama's faux folksy delivery. It's like he memorized it.
My last post resurrected in my memory a childhood rhyme we used to say which, while stupid and misogynistic and probably racist too at some deep level, always made me smile because ... the rhyme. Here tis:
King Kong went to Hong Kong to play ping pong with his ding dong.
I usually start with a President that is honest. Or at least, some sense of morality will constrain him from evil deeds while in power.
I agree, and I believe Trump has been pretty honest about who he is and what he wants to get done. I am leery, however, of those who are convinced of their superior morality - bad things get done in the name of good intentions.
What an odd playground insult. ("what did you just call me?!!")
Mr. Ed took a chance given she didn't know the meaning.
Perhaps for Ed..as well as Trump, this rally staple applies:
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you just might find
You just might find
You get what you need
There's an Obama-level humorlessness posing as intelligence in Mayor Pete.
I think he is absolutely this year's Obama - no experience to look back on and see how he might govern, speaks only in platitudes and generalities, can garner(!) votes as virtue signalling, and is essentially the same kind of blank slate on which voters can project what they want out of government.
Anne voted for raise everyone’s taxes Mondale in that blowout?
Lololol
.
rcocean said:
"Bill didnt' fight for America, he fought for Poontang"
Son, when you're fightin' for poontang, you're fightin' for America
.
I was the rebellious child in a libtard family. Born in 1960 my childhood filled with terrible assassinations, and Nixon in California oh my God did my parents hate Nixon all their friends hated Nixon my older draft age brothers and their friends hated Nixon... everybody hated dick Nixon. That just made be more curious so I went to the library and read book after book on the biography of Richard milhous Nixon from his humble upbringing in Whittier California his brother's tragic death his parents poverty his role as a tackling dummy and the way he would drive Pat around on dates with other boys. He made himself quite a bankroll playing poker in the South Pacific as a young lieutenant. how could you not love Nixon after reading his backstory. The Oliver Stone movie about Nixon is just that love story. we could use a Nixon right now to work his trilateral diplomacy or some version of it on the middle East and to get us peace with honor from the endless war on terror.
I'm sorry Meade, those comments just make you seem like you're an incurious and naive dolt. I believe you probably play one on TV because smart women like being reminded that the men in her life are essentially puppy dogs. but I'm not convinced that's your actual operating system. Did I just talk about fight club?
I don’t vote based on whether I like the person on the top of the ticket.
I vote based on whether I like the party’s platform, regardless of who’s on the ticket.
How any American can support the Democrat party ticket I have no idea.
Shorter version of Dust Bunny Queen: "Results matter."
How many lobotomies have you had, Howard? Is there anything up there left to lobotomize?
How on earth does someone enthusiastically extol Richard Nixon on the one hand and then casually dismiss Meade as some dumb sonofabitch?
Fascinating thought process, if one call it that.
Sorry; I meant platform and not ticket.
Howard, I enjoyed your reminiscences. Interestingly, when you were 13 I was up in San Jose with a job in a bicycle shop. I remember going to the San Jose public library on my off-time and finding this book: Mark the glove boy;: Or, The last days of Richard Nixon .
If you pick it up, be sure to read the afterword.
Browndog said...
Browndog said...
I usually start with a President that is honest. Or at least, some sense of morality will constrain him from evil deeds while in power.
2/7/20, 5:44 AM
Really? You have a funny opinion of what the profession of a 'Politician" actually is my friend.
Really? You have a funny opinion of what the profession of a 'Politician" actually is my friend.
Yes, really.
Just in my lifetime:
Was Jimmy Carter an honest man? Reagan? George W?
To say there are no honest men in the profession is almost like saying the electorate is morally superior to the people they elect.
@Althouse, @Meade, I take it both of you fell for the crap about the “Massachusetts Miracle”? All smoke and mirrors.
Gullible. At least back then.
Was Jimmy Carter an honest man?
No
Reagan?
Yes
George W?
Sometimes
"All smoke and mirrors."
The economic boom? Or Dukakis's role in it?
I've lived long enough to only want a president who will respect my liberty and defend it. I don't care if he/she has the likeability of an orc.
In addition to the tank and the emotionless response to the prospect of Kitty's rape and murder, I remember how in an interview near the end of the campaign Ted Koppel begged and begged Dukakis to offer one excited reason to vote for him.
Dukakis couldn't.
“Let the purge begin! (Actually, it has already been in motion for a while)...
Remember this fella?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn8NooNFul0
“I almost allowed no comments on this thread, because to be honest I am not particularly interested in hearing from the fucking assholes who will support this. But whatever.”
—- Patterico (115b1f) — 2/7/2020 @ 7:49 am
http://patterico.com/2020/02/07/maybe-people-should-pay-for-that-witness-against-trump-to-be-booted-out-of-white-house/
You were right not to like George HW Bush. Fuck that guy. He was a fucking CIA/Big Government bitch. He was succeeded by his failure of a son, George E Bush. That guy grew government like nobody's business. And you were right to dislike Nixon. He was a Big Government country club bitch.
Fuck all those guys.
You were wrong to dislike Reagan and Trump. Those guys are good for the country. A professor of constitutional law should know that smaller government works best.
When I was on the San Jose Mercury News editorial board, we interviewed Ronald Reagan when he was running for president the first time. He was incredibly likable, a wonderful story teller, the sort of person you wanted to move next door so you could chat over the fence. We were much more liberal, but he handled us beautifully. We knew we were being handled but we liked it. Our most left-liberal member was deeply shocked by how much she liked Reagan.
Some years later, I told that to a former Reagan/Bush Sr. aide, who told me that George W. Bush was even better than Reagan at charming people face to face. I said that was impossible: Nobody could be better. He swore it was true.
I want a competent president who won't wreck the economy. I am not going to socialize with him or her, so I don't need the president to be a great guy/gal.
How could you not like Reagan, Meade?
"Here's my theory of the Cold War: We win; they lose. What do you think of that?
Or: "America is a nation that has a government; not the other way around."
Jason Chaffetz is on FNC now. The conservative former Utah Congressman and current Fox News personality is the son of Kitty Dukakis's first husband by his second wife. From what I've heard he gets along well with his half-brother John Dukakis and the rest of the Dukakis family caucus - all the Dukaki and Dukakae. Conclusion: it would contribute much to the healing of America if we could all be related by divorce.
I concur. I also don’t want a president who could be my preacher.
h said...
Hillary Rodham was born in Illinois, am I right? I assign Lincoln to IL, Reagan to CA, Obama to IL, and Rodham to NY.
Them's fightin' words, bub.
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