January 19, 2020

Elizabeth Warren said, "Let me remind you, I think, I'm the only one running for president who's actually been on the executive side."

Did she "think" wrong?

The Washington Examiner points out that Bernie Sanders was mayor of Burlington, Vermont (long ago), Pete Buttigieg was mayor South Bend, Indiana, and Michael Bloomberg was that mayor of New York City.

But I think I know what she meant, and it's wrong in a different way than forgetting that Sanders, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg have been mayors and mayor is an executive position.

She meant I'm the only one running for president whose actually been on the executive side of the federal government.

The wrongness I'm seeing is the idea that government means national government. State and local government are invisible to the nationalist. For them, federalism is not a system of benefits and safeguards to the American people. The states and local governments might be useful as instruments of national power, carrying out mandates and handling the enforcement of federal norms. In this view, state and local government is subordinate and unimportant — not worth mentioning.

That, I suspect, is where Elizabeth Warren's mind was when she said she's the only one running for President who has actually been on the executive side. I'd like to know more about what Warren thinks about federalism. As a law professor, I was very used to hearing from law professors who dismissed federalism as outmoded at best and racist at worst.

IN THE COMMENTS: RichAndSceptical said, "And obviously Biden was [on the executive side] as VP." Which wrecks my interpretation.

ALSO: Remember when Barack Obama was first running for President and he argued that he had executive experience running Harvard Law Review and running his own campaign?

104 comments:

RichAndSceptical said...

And obviously Biden was as VP.

gspencer said...

"We effectively went from two employees the day I walked in the door to about 1000 and spent a year getting it up and operational."

All at the taxpayers' expense, meaning neither she nor her hack employees ever had any skin in the game. And never producing anything of value, a requirement demanded of the rest of us in the Dreaded Private Sector.

Like Milton Friedman said..."Put the gov't in charge of the Sahara Desert, and they'll be a sand shortage in 5 years" !!

I wouldn't be bragging about making gov't bigger if I were her...certainly not the thousand or so dead beat paper pushers they hired, and probably making our lives more difficult with more useless regulations !

tim in vermont said...

She will tell you whatever she thinks you need to believe so that she can get her way. It’s almost like she’s a woman. Logically, if you carry out her argument to it’s conclusion, she should step aside for Biden if she thinks that is so important.

Ralph L said...

I think she's also the only professional teacher. Funny she hasn't bragged about that.

Ann Althouse said...

The Washington Examiner transcribed the quote: " "Let me remind you, I think, I'm the only one running for president whose actually been on the executive side."

I apologize for originally publishing this post with that "whose." Corrected now, without annotation because I'm quoting what EW said, not what she wrote.

tim in vermont said...

"We effectively went from two employees the day I walked in the door to about 1000 and spent a year getting it up and operational.”

It’s like decorating a house when hubby gives you a large check.

gilbar said...

as RichAndSkeptical said...

Isn't Jo Biden still running? Or, are we Done Pretending that the VP position isn't a bucket of spit?

The Gipper Lives said...

"State and local government are invisible to the nationalist. For them, federalism is not a system of benefits and safeguards to the American people. The states and local governments might be useful as instruments of national power, carrying out mandates and handling the enforcement of federal norms. In this view, state and local government is subordinate and unimportant — not worth mentioning."

Sorry--President Trump is a nationalist. He has been restoring power to state and local governments, not to mention Main Street America and individuals. You are describing Leftists, nor nationalists. Except Barry--he was a nationalist. Just not for this nation.

gilbar said...

Serious Question:
WHY are we supposed to want to vote for Liz?

'cause she's the only woman running?
'cause she's the only socialist running?
'cause she's the only easterner running?
'cause she's the only seventy year old running?
'cause she's the only one Younger than Trump running?

I can never remember WHAT is supposed to be so special about her?
Now we hear, that it's
'cause she's the only person who's been on the executive side?

donald said...

She’s a blithering idiot and pathological liar. Anybody supporting this bint or even giving her credibility at this point...just wow.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Come on guys...take it easy on her. This isn't among her lies of commission. She just didn't think this one through. Chalk it up to not having enough coffee, and her usual low-grade idiocy.

traditionalguy said...

You must be referring to the Constitutional view of the Federal Government since it was redone in 1865. From that time on the attitude of the Feds to state and local authorities has been that of William T.Sherman. Yankees usually overlook this sea change in analysis.

Warren is lusting to run the Federal Government like Sherman ran the state of Georgia.

Mr. Forward said...

Now that the election results are as obvious as the impeachment results this might be a good time to try to say something nice.

Elizabeth Warren has executive experience. Bloomberg and Steyer have purchased so much air time other commercials will go unseen and I missed. Biden looks good in a suit. Andrew Yang doesn’t need a tie. Harris, Castro, Williamson, Booker etc. had the good sense to drop out and Bernie still has his hair.

rhhardin said...

Biden was in charge of firing prosecutors.

tim maguire said...

I laughed out loud when Obama answered a question about his qualifications for president and he cited his experience running his own campaign.

oldwahoo said...

The only thing Warren has in common with Trump is a near-complete disregard for what used to be known as "the truth".

As George Costanza said, if you believe it, it's not a lie.

tim in vermont said...

Tell us something serious that Trump has lied about, please include the original context.

tim in vermont said...

I want to hear his most serious lie.

Bob Boyd said...

Which wrecks my interpretation.

Not necessarily. You both just forgot Jose'.
Interesting that the front runner is so forgettable.

Oso Negro said...

@ The Gipper Lives - I would characterize it more as totalitarianism

rhhardin said...

Warren might not have been making an assertion. She might have been giving an order. Let it be that ...

That's no longer a proposition and so no longer true or false.

Eleanor said...

There is only one thing you have to know about Elizabeth Warren. She's a complete and total idiot. When you understand that, everything she says and does makes complete and total sense.

rehajm said...

As I warned y'all from the beginning- she's dumb....

The most positive way to spin what she said is trying to draw an equivalence to a C suite executive in the private sector. Running something. It would differentiate her from the career politicians...if anyone believed it.

tim in vermont said...

I find this lady's arguments very convincing and her presentation serves to underscore her seriousness.

https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/1218883177986625537

lgv said...

As a CEO, I would like to opine that none of them has any executive experience other than Steyer and Bloomberg. I don't think that she means that when she says "executive side". Regardless, her statement is dead wrong. Her "Assistant to the President" job doesn't even come close to Biden's 8 years as part of the executive branch.

Perhaps she views the establishment of the CFPB as her executive experience. Regardless, her executive experience is about the same level as her Native American experience.

Jersey Fled said...

But Aunt Trump, you don't understand. He lies "all the time".

Or at least Strawman Trump does.

P.S. Warren might be speaking of her time on a tribal council or something.

Calypso Facto said...

"Let me remind you, I think, I'm the only one running for president who's actually been on the executive side."

Trump isn't running for President? Did I miss an important announcement? Quite a bit of executive experience there, including, you know, doing a great job as President already.

lgv said...

As a CEO, I would like to opine that none of them has any executive experience other than Steyer and Bloomberg. I don't think that she means that when she says "executive side". Regardless, her statement is dead wrong. Her "Assistant to the President" job doesn't even come close to Biden's 8 years as part of the executive branch.

Perhaps she views the establishment of the CFPB as her executive experience. Regardless, her executive experience is about the same level as her Native American experience.

Saint Croix said...

What she probably meant to say is that she had leadership experience (which excludes Biden). And in her head she's thinking federal leadership experience, which excludes all those mayors.

So that's her talking point, that she's a leader who started up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau from nothing. And she says...

"I'm the only one running for president who's actually been on the executive side."

Which is a weird, non-executive way to talk about leadership. You've been on the side of the executive?

tim in vermont said...

https://twitter.com/anapsid/status/1218709608795189249

Spoiler alert, her sign actually says “My pussy is your worst nightmare!!!”

tim in vermont said...

Biden ran Ukraine policy for years. How can she hope to top that?

Mr. Forward said...

"...his most serious lie."

Hasn't locked up Hillary...yet.

AllenS said...

She's less than 1/1024ths executive, if she's that much.

Saint Croix said...

She was asked when she plans on using presidential authority for some of her policy agenda instead of relying on Congress.

That's when she says...

"That's a really good question. Let me remind you, I think, I'm the only one running for president whose actually been on the executive side. Remember, after the consumer agency was passed into law, Barack Obama, President Obama, asked me to set it up. So I set up a federal agency. We effectively went from two employees the day I walked in the door to about 1000 and spent a year getting it up and operational."

So I think what she meant to say is that she loves federal agencies, she ran a federal agency, she's the only one who's run a federal agency, and she plans on doing exactly that when she's in the White House. It's all going to be one big federal agency, and she's the boss.

clint said...

Re: Biden...

I dunno. Didn't Dick Cheney say the the VP was primarily a legislative position -- as President of the Senate? I remember a particularly deranged answer from Biden to that question during the Palin-Biden debate.

Hagar said...

A dangerous conflation of the term "nationalist." The Federalists were the nationalists of that time and the Anti-Federalists (the ancestors of today's Democrats) were their opponents, arguing for each state being its own sovereign entity - especially with regard to slavery.

tim in vermont said...

"Hasn't locked up Hillary...yet”

A lot of barnacles to be chipped off the ship of state before we can get to that happy outcome.

Darrell said...

She also sold "Pow Wow Chow Now--and How" books. And blankets and dreamcatchers.

She might be the most qualified candidate EVAH.

David Begley said...

Elizabeth Herring has been divorced from Jim Warren since 1978.

Bob Boyd said...

Running something.

She ran some buffalo over a cliff back in her Indian days.
No reason she couldn't bring those skills to bear on the economy and foreign policy.

whitney said...

war·ren
/ˈwôrən,ˈwärən/
noun
a network of interconnecting rabbit burrows.
a densely populated or labyrinthine building or district.

Temujin said...

It may be that she considers being on the faculty of Harvard as being a part of the Executive branch. During some administrations, this would be true.

gilbar said...

"Let me remind you, I think, I'm the only one running for president who's actually been on the executive side."

Holy Crap! I just (FINALLY!!) Actually READ the assignment
Look at what she's Saying, Look at What she's ADMITTING!

She THINKS, she Really Does ACTUALLY THINK,
that she is the only one running for President who's been on the executive side
She's Admitting that She is Delusional!

Consider what you know about Lizzy 'Lieawatha'
Now, consider the FACT, that she has Admitted that she is delusional
They aren't Lies.... They're Hallucinations!

dbp said...

If the CFPB is what Warren wants to brag about, then as Althouse might say, "Let's take a closer look at this agency".

In my opinion, if this is what a Warren presidency looks like, what it looks like is a nightmare.

TRISTRAM said...

Hmmm, is Trump running? I hear he has executive experience …

Eric said...

She seems proud to have set up an unconstitutionally structured agency. Not a good sign for how she might operate at a higher level of the executive branch.

Big Mike said...

Women lie, and for Liz Warren the lying is a reflex action.

AllenS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rehajm said...

I don't think that she means that when she says "executive side"

Then what else could it be? She's trying to differentiate herself by pointing out she was the only one to head an organization where there was a budget and a charge to organize people and ideas toward a common goal. Although the rest of us make the correct distinction between government and private sector, the fact that Liz doesn't make that distinction doesn't change the image she's trying to create- an image of competence and experience...

Tom said...

Did she just make the argument that she should president because she’s been a bureaucrat?! Yep, that’ll sell.

David Begley said...

Why didn’t she change her name to Mann? First Mann President.

Danno said...

What Eric said, and more. The CFPB was created with no constitutional safeguards, including its off-budget funding and the way its chief executive was not to be answerable to the Executive branch. Doesn't anyone remember Richard Cordray and the flap at the beginning of Trump's Presidency?

Hagar said...

Today's Democrats still argue against the "central government" having the right to legislate about the important things for the whole nation, but insists on its right to legislate about our local school districts' lunch menus for our children.

buwaya said...

We are in a place where what you call Federalism is a very sore point.
Spain has literally been a battlefield over "federalism" for centuries.
Its disparate peoples and regions have always distrusted the nationalist/imperial center, and vice versa.

Spanish civil wars, and there have been many, have usually had a powerful component of disputes over local rights and liberties (the "fueros") against a domineering central government. And this does not just mean the Basques and Catalans.

The American argument is an echo, to me, of a common problem found worldwide.

One important reason Duterte in the Philippines won, and retains popularity, is because he is a symbolic retort by the provinces against imperial Manila, politically, but also economically and socially. This is not a one dimensional thing, anywhere.

Part of the American political problem is that your Federal government has been concentrating power vs the states and local governments for a century, and more so, probably, that your politics is driven by a concentration of economic power and media/culture as well. If all important economic decisions are made in the New York-Washington axis, you can expect a war over "fueros", not substantially different in motivation than any Carlist revolt.

Michael K said...

Democrats almost never have any private sector experience, thus Mike Bloomberg is the one running for their nomination who has executive experience. He, of course, has no chance but he is probably spending that money to run as an Independent.

She made a pretty good argument to re-elect Trump, I would say.

Michael K said...

Part of the American political problem is that your Federal government has been concentrating power vs the states and local governments for a century, and more so, probably

That was what the Civil War was about. That's why 10th Amendment arguments fail.

Fernandinande said...

Did she "think" wrong?

The way it's written with the commas, it means she thinks she is reminding you.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Perhaps Warren meant that she is the only candidate who has worked in the federal bureaucracy. The VP is not in the bureaucracy.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Buttigieg was a soldier but that is also not the bureaucracy.

tim in vermont said...

"Perhaps Warren meant that she is the only candidate who has worked in the federal bureaucracy.”

If you are going to defend Warren, you are going to have to use that “perhaps she meant” construction a lot.

buwaya said...

This is why the book and film series of "The Hunger Games" is so useful, whatever the literary quality of the thing.

The conflict in that is at the heart of most political disputes, certainly the most sensitive ones in the modern world, and most certainly the true subsyance of the modern American political crisis. It is an excellent teaching tool, a frame for explanations.

It may sound odd to call Katniss a Carlist, but she is. And so are most commenters in Althouse. You are all Carlists.

Michael K said...

Buttigieg was a soldier but that is also not the bureaucracy.

"Soldier" has different connotations from chairborn warriors. REMFs in Vietnamspeak.

John henry said...

Joe Biden was NOT in the executive branch.

I am surprised that Ann, a constitutional law professor would not only not point that out but actually promote the opposite.

The only official role the vp has is to be president of the senate, clearly a legislative position.

They do not "work for" the president and the president has no, none, zip, legal authority over them.

Some people view the vp as an assistant president as would be the case of a corporate vp. They are really just an "assistant to" the president. A high end flunky

The only power anyone has over the vp is political "behave yourself or we will say mean things about you. We won't let you run for president."

John Henry

Bay Area Guy said...

Senator Paleface speaks with forked tongue

John henry said...

One of the things that excited me about Sarah Palin as vp was that she recognized this and said that if elected she intended to be an "activist" Senate President

The senate president has no power? It's a ceremonial role?

That's what they said about the majority leader post.


Until lbj took it over. He discovered all sorts of little powers everyone had forgotten about. He used them to amass a power almost equal to the president's. Some say more powerful.

John Henry

John henry said...

If the president tells the vp "go to a funeral" the vp can say "nah. Ive got to wash my hair" or even "go fuck yourself" and there is nothing the prez can do about it.

John Henry

tim in vermont said...

I am not sure how running the Ukraine policy out of the White House is not an executive position, whether official or not. His executive power was real. Word games are just word games. VPs are at the meetings of the executive, they are executive branch insiders, though certainly a president could cut them off and limit them to ceremonial duties, which the VP could refuse, I guess. I bet the politics of either move. would be extremely complicated and unpredictable though.

POTUS generally “deputizes" the VP with some part of his executive power, and Obama did Biden with Ukraine.

Yancey Ward said...

Warren just gets stupider and stupider the longer this campaign goes on.

John henry said...

POTUS generally “deputizes" the VP with some part of his executive power,

Precisely my point. "assistant TO

Flunky.

That is not executive responsibility.

John Henry

Skipper said...

Obama was President of the Law Review, which was ceremonial at best. The Editor in Chief runs Law Reviews. Some executive.

Jupiter said...

"She was asked when she plans on using presidential authority for some of her policy agenda instead of relying on Congress."

And the reason she was asked that is that she has already said she would use Presidential power to "forgive" student loans. I guess she is referring to the Presidential pardon power.

Michael said...

.

I believe she meant to say she's the only Indian candidate with executive experience.

.

Josephbleau said...

I think she's also the only professional teacher. Funny she hasn't bragged about that.

But Obama was a full professor of law, probably the only one who never published a paper.

Ralph L said...

But Obama was a full professor of law,

Just an adjunk prof.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Aunty Trump... Thanks for the tweets from "The March". I'm remembering the Merry Pranksters. Seems reasonable that so many white kids choose the fentanyl exit.

BUMBLE BEE said...

I recall that Obama was a "lecturer" and not offered tenure. I may be wrong, but it was an AYERS Sr. appointment.

Ann Althouse said...

Why didn't I mention Biden in the original post? It's in the Washington Examiner article, and I was thinking about it as I wrote the post, I just got going on the state/federal distinction and never got around to mentioning Biden. Leaving out Biden was her biggest mistake, but a different explanation is needed for that. I guess it needs to be something like: the vice presidency is nothing but a position of being held in reserve.

Otherwise, we could just say EW says things that are just so completely wrong that you have to wonder what the hell is wrong with her.

Ann Althouse said...

"I recall that Obama was a "lecturer" and not offered tenure."

It's not that he was denied tenure. He wasn't tenure track. He had the title "lecturer" and had the status that at many schools would be given the title "adjunct professor." I went into some detail about that here, in March 2008.

Hillary Clinton was a law professor who never had tenure, you know.

Megaera said...

She just lies. It's her default behavior. Who she is, what she does. But she is enabled and protected by the press, which never questions a Dem pronunciamento, no matter how patently stupid and mendacious.

Megaera said...

And, FWIW, Obama had no management authority at the LR -- as has been noted with depressing regularity, he was not Editor (determined by merit), he was President (elected based on popularity ... or something) and was described by LR staff as never showing up to do anything. H

Mark said...

the vice presidency is nothing but a position of being held in reserve.

Unless you want the Ukraine to stop investigating the company paying your son beaucoup bucks for... what?

Mr. Forward said...

“...never showing up to do anything. “

So, he did have executive experience.

Josephbleau said...

I like the Obama is a professor case study because it has so many moving parts. An assistant professor at a University function would never introduce herself as “professor” or she would be condemned as grasping and certainly not impress the full profs who waited 10 or 15 years to get the title. Perhaps she would tell her mother she was a professor. I assume that is the case for Obama who wanted to impress the hoi polloi and perhaps feed his ego. I have heard that the conflicts in academia are so intense because the stakes are so low.

Ralph L said...

Trooper York said...
As long as Obama doesn't claim to be a well informed blogger of American Idol trivia, I don't think it's such a big deal.
3/30/08, 2:23 PM

John henry said...

Josephbleu said

An assistant professor at a University function would never introduce herself as “professor

I was an adjunct at Southern New Hampshire University business school from 1982-2011. And at Puerto Rico polytechnic engineering school 2005-2010

In both schools, I was officially an "adjunct instructor" and contracted on a course by course basis

In both schools I was routinely addressed as "Professor Henry" in official school correspondance.

In verbal communication, I was usually John but occasionally professor. Students in both schools routinely addressed me as professor. But also john or Mr Henry.

In puerto rico professor/professora is routinely used to address teachers at all levels. My wife teaches hs and wears a uniform blouse with her school name and department under "Prof. Henry". Public high school.

I suspect this is a language/culture thing since nobody thinks they are "professors" in the englis/American sense of the word.

Uniforms are required to wear uniform. Teachers are not but often get together and agree on a standard blouse/shirt that they all wear. And pay for

John Henry

John henry said...

Josephbleu said

An assistant professor at a University function would never introduce herself as “professor"

Would a full professor?

I would find that unbearably pretentious and would mark the person down as a twit and go on to talk to someone else.

Why can't they just say "hi, I'm Joe. I teach packaging science."

John Henry

Wince said...

gilbar said...
"Let me remind you, I think, I'm the only one running for president who's actually been on the executive side."
Look at what she's Saying, Look at What she's ADMITTING!
She THINKS, she Really Does ACTUALLY THINK, that she is the only one running for President who's been on the executive side. She's Admitting that She is Delusional!


Indeed, Warren in a nutshell (e.g., "I think you call me a liar on national TV").

But Gilbar, you left out the "Let me remind you..."

The hectoring preface to her fabulism.

Now that's both sides of Warren revealed in one sentence!

tcrosse said...

"Professor" was the traditional title of the piano player in a whorehouse, even if he had no idea what went on upstairs.

Josephbleau said...

Would a full professor?

I would find that unbearably pretentious and would mark the person down as a twit and go on to talk to someone else.


At a university function you would say hi I am assist prof Jackson, at a chamber of commerce meeting anything is fine, this is the rule I have seen, just like in the Army, say Lt. Col and let them call you Col if they want. Otherwise you risk embarrassment.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

I apologize for originally publishing this post with that "whose."

Snot something tupoligize about, Althouse. If the Washington Examiner were truly interested in clarity of expression they would have written "who is." Likewise, Warren would have said "who is."

Contemporary "news writers disrespect readers by rampant apostrophe abuse. Extra time is needed to discriminate between a noun's use in the genitive case and when a noun's used as the nominative.

Rabel said...

Here is video of her statement if you want to go straight to the horse's mouth.

It features up-talking, a dramatic pause, and woo-hoo.

narciso said...

remember she wanted to exonerate ethel Rosenberg, for her part in the spy ring,

effinayright said...

John henry said...
Joe Biden was NOT in the executive branch.
***************
He was an Article II constitutional officer, chosen at the same time and in the same manner as the POTUS. If the POTUS dies, resigns or is removed from office after impeachment, the Veep succeeds him as POTUS. If the President is incapacitated as described in the 25th Amendment the Veep become Acting President.

---IOW it sounds like he's "in the executive branch" to me!

If not, what branch is he part of?

John henry said...

The vp's only constitutionally described relate to his presidency of the senate.

Yes, he succeeds to presidency but so doe the house speaker in the event of a double vacancy. You are not arguing that this makes Nancy pelosi executive branch, are you?

Re the 25th amendment, it does not make the vp "acting" president. Beginning with Tyler's(?) death there was some question about whether the vp became president or was simply acting president while remaining vp.



There was some interesting points of law on this that came up during the Johnson impeachment. Istr that one of the issues was that Johnson, if merely acting, was still president of the body impeaching him. But it's been a lot of years and all I remember for sure is that it seemed interesting at the time.

Since Tyler the custom had been to treat the former vp as fully president, not acting.

25th clears that up and makes it official

Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

John Henry

Zach said...

If the president tells the vp "go to a funeral" the vp can say "nah. Ive got to wash my hair" or even "go fuck yourself" and there is nothing the prez can do about it.

Are you kidding here?

The President may not have a legal case against his own Vice President for failing to attend the funeral, but as a practical matter the Vice President is completely subservient. It's as simple as telling the other people in the administration "Hey, don't listen to that guy anymore."

The only authority the Vice President has is delegated by the President. He can break ties in the Senate, but that's like saying the punter has power on a football team.

LA_Bob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LA_Bob said...

"IN THE COMMENTS: RichAndSceptical said, "And obviously Biden was [on the executive side] as VP." Which wrecks my interpretation."

It doesn't wreck your interpretation, Professor. It just means Warren is wrong or lying, qualities of which she makes good use, in addition to your interpretation.

It also suggests she thinks Biden is eminently forgettable, which works until he beats her in a primary somewhere.

LA_Bob said...

"I'd like to know more about what Warren thinks about federalism."

I'd like to know whether Warren thinks. The evidence ain't encouraging.

Ken B said...

Is Biden a counter example legally? He is president of the senate.

John henry said...

Blogger Zach said...

If the president tells the vp "go to a funeral" the vp can say "nah. Ive got to wash my hair" or even "go fuck yourself" and there is nothing the prez can do about it.

Are you kidding here?


Not kidding at all. There is nothing the president can do. Other than, as you say tell people not listen to that guy any more. And all he can do is request people not to listen to him. He has no power, other than within the executive branch, to enforce that.

The only authority the Vice President has is delegated by the President. He can break ties in the Senate

The "vice-president" doesn't even have the power to break ties. That power belongs to the "President of the Senate" (who is also the VP) The vice-president has no power other than what is delegated. He also has pretty much no responsibility or accountability either, which is kind of the definition of executive (as opposed to Executive Branch) power.

However, the president of the Senate has all sorts of powers when presiding over the Senate. Sign's bills as approved by the senate, rules on parliamentary issues, recognizes speakers and more. These are traditionally exercised by the president pro tem in the president's absence. But they are the president's (Pence now) powers should he choose to exercise them.

For past 200 years they have been exercised less and less by the president until people don't even realize they still exist. If Senate President Pence started exercising them, it would cause a major political upheaval and all sorts of sturm und drang. It would make this little kerfuffle with PDJT seem insignificant.

But there would be no legal or Constitutional way to stop him. The House could impeach him, but for what? Exercising his constitutional duties?

John Henry

John henry said...

If Vice-president Pence told President Trump to go fuck himself, there would be nothing PDJT could do other than, as Zach says, tell people not to listen to this guy.

Given that it is president Trump saying this, how many people would pay attention? And think about all the people for whom it might be a positive?

Berni Sanders, Warren, Biden have built presidential campaigns on being willing to tell PDJT to, essentially, go fuck himself.

A public spat with PDJT might provide a serious boost to Pence 2024.

And, since he would have no duties at all as VP, he could campaign 24/7. A shoe-in for the Demmie nomination in 24. He also has executive experience as a governor.

John Henry

Ken B said...

As JH observes, Pence does not constitutionally work for the president. He was elected to his office. He cannot be fired. It really is not clear to me that legally he is part of the administration, although conventionally and informally has been seen as a representative of the president. Truman for example was not in on any of FDR's high level meetings, and did not know the big secrets, such as the bomb or Ultra or Magic.

cyrus83 said...

Whether Warren believes the others genuinely have no executive experience is difficult to tell. I think this is just another tall tale of convenience she's not expecting to be called on, but either way it's not a good look. If she truly believes what she's saying, she's being condescendingly dismissive of the mayoral experience of Bernie, Bloomberg, and Buttigieg, of Biden's vice presidency, and of Bloomberg and Steyer's corporate experience. If she doesn't, that's just more cumulative evidence of her tendency to say what she thinks will help her in the moment without due regard for the veracity of what she's saying.

Bloomberg is the candidate where this comparison really fails, as mayor of New York City is probably the best credential of government executive experience of anyone currently running, and he actually has run a successful business outside of government too.

John Althouse Cohen said...

Wow, a white candidate is erasing the only black candidate who’s still running, former Governor Deval Patrick.