"Trump, with his braying entitlement, his boastful ignorance, his sneering contempt for pluralism, is an avatar of a Republican Party desperate to return to the 1980s, or the 1950s, or maybe the 1910s. He can’t betray America if, to those who fetishize the 63 million, he embodies it.... Democrats didn’t want to impeach, but once they decided to, Trump’s insistence that his Electoral College victory grants him impunity didn’t work. For one night, democracy asserted itself....
Writes Michelle Goldberg in "The Tyranny of the 63 Million/Impeachment didn’t undermine democracy. It vindicated it" (NYT).
What happened to the reverence for the Framers and the Constitution? The Framers were not all for majoritarian democracy, exercised moment by moment. They came up with the Electoral College and presidential terms of 4 years.
Goldberg would validate day-to-day majoritarianism, but I suspect it's mainly because the people she likes are currently dominant in the most majoritarian part of the federal government. She is not taking into account the dangers and instability of majoritarianism.
(Look at the UK, with its Brexit, plunged into because they had a referendum and a surprise majority for the "wrong" side locked them into drastic change.)
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320 comments:
1 – 200 of 320 Newer› Newest»Look at the UK, with its Brexit,
Nope. Sorry. One crisis at a time. There’s a President we need be rid of...
...and the paths to victory are narrowing...and its not even election night.
Funny enough, she's kind of right, but the group in question isn't a demographic one.
The evolved structure of American democracy has invested disproportionate power in a group that is passionately convinced of its right to rule. This group has become more and more self-dealing, less and less concerned with delivering results.
Trump's presidency is a reaction to that. And to them, it is a horror.
*eyeroll*
I hope she hyperventilate multiple times while writing that piece. I am so over the pearl clutching drama via words.
Seriously, I'm ready to just start slapping people.
White people are racists and shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Except for ones like this writer. The good ones. Who hate whites.
ARM is Michelle Goldberg?
What, exactly, is the horror?
Record DOW? Record low unemployment? Peace?
Trump is the most successful president of my lifetime.
"The Horror." Oh yes, the horrors of full employment, prosperity. Democrats have already made clear they'll end those horrors. Even Joe Biden has said he'll get on that right away.
Everybody is a majoritarian until a federal court rules in favor of their pet cause.
"Everyone I don't like is a barrier to my passionate belief in my political demographic's right to rule."
I don't see or feel this so called horror of Trump. When I've asked people I know that complain about it to share the things that make up this horror they give me a perplexed look and stutter and stammer, if they say anything at all.
For liberals such as the article's author, our system for electing the President is good or bad depending on whether the right person is elected, i.e.; their preferred candidate.
to return to the 1980s, or the 1950s, or maybe the 1910s.
Weren't the 1910s the Woodrow Wilson years? (and edith wilson at the end). I thought these were the bright shining years of the progressive error?
John Henry
the horrors of full employment
Don't y'all Realize? that full employment means that there's NOTHING for those middle class white women that work at the unemployment office to do?
The WHOLE POINT of having make work jobs for middle class white women, Vanishes with full employment. What do you expect these middle class white women to do? Go out and take one of the tens of millions of REAL jobs that are currently unfilled?
Real Jobs would mean Real Work.
Goldberg is a fraud and a moron. The New York Times cast around for a fresh new viewpoint, and came up with a middle-class Jewish woman from NYC. She gives us the liberal/left female viewpoint vs. the liberal/left male viewpoint we get from Friedman Krugman and Charles Blow. She has no principles except "Just Win Democrats, just win"
When I hear Goldberg complain about New England having 12 Senators, I'll pay attention.
The UK got Brexit because the people want it. That's why the Conservative party won in 2017 and 2019. The UK didn't get "locked into it". The British globalist elite shot themselves in the foot. They thought they could fob off the public with a vote on Brexit, confident they'd vote NO. Instead they voted Yes, and the elite still hasn't accepted it.
Like Trump has done in the USA, Brexit showed the labour to be total frauds, who hate the patriotic working class people who vote for them. Given a choice between Globalism and keeping their promise to support Brexit, they chose Globalism and defeat.
"What happened to the reverence for the Framers and the Constitution? The Framers were not all for majoritarian democracy, exercised moment by moment. They came up with the Electoral College and presidential terms of 4 years."
The Framers didn't up with a 4 year POTUS term.
Holy shit that’s embarrassing. It’s like Larry David took over the Democrats.
Goldberg:
Yesterday: Isn't it great the Federal Courts are overturning laws we don't like and stopping Trump!
Today: That terrible, undemocratic Electoral College gave us Trump. The People should rule!
One obvious point, a majority of UK residents voted for Brexit, a minority voted for Trump.
"Democrats didn’t want to impeach, ..."
The devil made me buy this dress!
Another obvious point, Trump didn’t even contest for votes in California and there was no point in Republicans turning out there, so we will never know how many Californians would have voted for Trump if their votes had actually mattered.
Meanwhile Democrats changed the law in California to create a kind of “card check” where you hand over your absentee ballot to the party, and they fill it out for you. Running up the vote totals there for Democrats.
Why am I explaining this to somebody who is utterly incurious about the facts underlying his grand pronouncements?
I sometimes avoid NYT articles and just let Atlhouse’s commentary and the brilliant and entertaining commenters suffice. With time to kill this morning I read the entire article. Big mistake. Michelle must have slept through her 8th grade civics class.
It’s interesting to me that England has been one half-step ahead of us in the Trump era. They Brexited — against all adds — months before we Trumped them. Now they have Borised the Chorus just ahead of what is surely to be a Trump reprise. In both lands, this and our mother, the central tenet of our modern western world, democracy, was put on trial by liberals. Michelle Goldberg, obviously, voted Guilty.
But here’s the thing: Eff them. We won fair and square.
In Goldberg's world, various homogeneous demographic groups compete for government goodies and credentialed white liberals like her get to dole them out.
Ain't it great to be looked at with so much disdain from these oh-so-strange liberals? It's like poor Alice looking through the looking glass.
A Reagan quote comes to mind: "It isn’t so much that liberals are ignorant. It’s just that they know so many things that aren’t so.”
If you vote, that means you are “passionately convinced of your right to rule” I remember Christmas under Obama and you know what? I never gave Obama a second thought on that day, but I have liberal friends who claim that the fact that Trump is POTUS and not Hillary is ruining their holiday.
Michelle, if you're so unhappy with the system, fret not. The visionary Framers anticipated this might happen and provided a method, Article V (two methods actually), by means of which the system can be changed.
What's that you say, "It's a long slog." That's true, but that's also intentional. But if you're convinced of the unfairness of the present system, then you'll have no problem convincing others, through persuasion, about the justice of your cause.
"n Goldberg's world, various homogeneous demographic groups compete for government goodies and credentialed white liberals like her get to dole them out.”
The term is 'log rolling.’ They used to teach that in social studies classes, which is where I learned it.
Except the white left is gonna be tossed out on their ear.
Aunty Trump said: “Another obvious point, Trump didn’t even contest for votes in California and there was no point in Republicans turning out there, so we will never know how many Californians would have voted for Trump if their votes had actually mattered.”
In the other national election that occurred in 2016, for the House of Representatives, Republican candidates in total outpolled Democrats by almost 2 million votes, giving some validity to the idea an election based on popular vote could have been much different.
I'm sure the framers never expected that the largest state would have a population almost eighty times that of the smallest state (or that a third of the entire population would live in one-fifth of the states).
As for Brexit. More than anything Brexit shows the folly of having a "head of state" in name only. There is absolutely no check on parliament, the Queen has no say in how her government is run.
Still not tired of all this winning!! :)
"I'm sure the framers never expected that the largest state would have a population almost eighty times that of the smallest state (or that a third of the entire population would live in one-fifth of the states)."
Cuz if they had, they would have given more electoral votes to the more populous states.
In November 2020, Trump will win all the states he won in November 2016 -- plus a few more.
Goldberg's got her self all wee-wee'd up.
“One obvious point, a majority of UK residents voted for Brexit, a minority voted for Trump.”
And a minority voted for Hillary. And your point is?
Shall we talk about other “majority” vs “ minority” issues such as abortion restriction. Why is it when one believes strongly in a minority opinion its the “righteous viewpoint” but when one supports a majority opinion its the correct viewpoint “as evidenced by the polling”?
And more to the point, shall we discuss the polling regarding impeachment ?
A easily-understood visual can be found at the link below as to who controlled Congress in Michelle's models years, 1950s to 1980s.
A lotta blue, Michelle. Expand it to the 1931-1995 time period. A whole lotta blue!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses#/media/File:Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png
Beasts,
I'm not tired of winning but I am getting tired of working. I've probably had more days of paying work in 3 years of pdjt than 8 of obama.
So many that I raised my day rate by 20% 2 years ago and it doesn't seem to have made a difference.
It may be time to bump it again.
John Henry
One obvious point, a majority of UK residents voted for Brexit, a minority voted for Trump.
One obvious point, a minority voted for Clinton, who got 48.2% of the popular vote.
How big is Michelle Goldberg's own demographic group?
She is a middle-aged (44 years old) Jewish woman.
Is that a big and growing demographic group?
One percent of the population?
Why should she and her own tiny demographic group have any say?
Cuz if they had, they would have given more electoral votes to the more populous states.
If they had, they wouldn't have included Senate seats in the determination of electoral votes (and even if that were true Wyoming voters would still get almost two votes for president for each voter in California).
Michelle Goldberg writes empty words painted in broad strokes and bright colors. Hysteria on paper.
Implement secure voting procedures and borders. Until then, California can stuff it.
As for Brexit. More than anything Brexit shows the folly of having a "head of state" in name only. There is absolutely no check on parliament, the Queen has no say in how her government is run.
A breathtaking statement coming from a Democrat (also just one with a lower case d)!
Perhaps the Stuarts will rise again in an independent Scotland and march south to re-take their rightful inheritance?
But "Divine Right" and Labour?
Seems like oil and water!
"Cuz if they had, they would have given more electoral votes to the more populous states"
In 1787 that wouldn't have happened. The small states would have walked. They said so in the 1787 debates. Perhaps a union would have occurred sometime after 1787, but the terms, from those states point of view, would have had to have been better. The Great Compromise kept everyone in.
One obvious point, a minority voted for Clinton, who got 48.2% of the popular vote.
Reminds of when I friend of mine said W was "an illegitimate president" because he won less than half the vote. I pointed out that Gore didn't win half the vote either, and she stomped away, muttering.
I think that the voters in Los Angeles County, in their wisdom, should choose the president of the whole country every time.
We’re living in the very best times, John Henry.
You face the “horror of Trump” because your candidate was Hillary Fucking Clinton, war monger and grifter extraordinaire.
It’s hard to imagine another candidate who could have made me vote for Trump, at the time. He has won me over, but I was not happy to vote for him then.
It is obvious to me that an enormous number of people we see or read every day actually live in an alternate universe. This includes the presidential candidates who talk about millions of new green jobs with their climate plan. Oil and gas workers are the highest paid non professionals in the US. Are they going to leave without a fight to squeegie off solar panels or clean up dead birds under wind turbines? Also, it seems that they haven't figured out we don't live in a "Democracy".
The dominant group is the global elite and they can't stand to see their dominance challenged. Brexit and Trump both won because they dared to challenge.
Cuz if they had, they would have given more electoral votes to the more populous states.
Ummm? Hello?? They DID give more electoral votes to the more populous states
Don't y'all KNOW that? Are y'all Stupid??/
Wyoming gets THREE votes, does Illinois get MORE? you betcha!
"What happened to the reverence for the Framers and the Constitution?"
It's been gone since, oh, Woodrow Wilson. Aided and abetted by law profs eagerly supporting monstrosities like Roe.
"I suspect it's mainly because the people she likes are currently dominant in the most majoritarian part of the federal government.
Gee, I suspect so too.
Freder,
The queen has absolute power over how Britain is governed. She exercises very little.
For example, she appoints the prime minister, an office that has no legal, only customary existence. Customarily she appoints the person recommended by the majority party. Legally, she could appoint anyone in the world.
Parliament exists at her pleasure. She can close it or require new elections at any time.
She could replace bojo with nigel farage this afternoon if she decided.
Bing powers of the queen. You will be amazed at how many she legally has if she decided to use them.
Not saying it would be a good idea for her to use them. Just that she could.
John Henry
Impeachment is for presidents that you don't like, as the framers intended. That's why they called for a vote of confidence as port of our parliamentary system.
#civics
"Ummm? Hello?? They DID give more electoral votes to the more populous states"
Gee, really?
(Do I have to label that one as sarcasm, too?)
If we tied government employees' retirement plans directly to the stock market -- kinda like how the private sector lives -- I bet the hate for Trump would continue, but they'd vote for him, anyway.
The government worker being provided for in a safe bubble unrelated to current events undermines democracy.
I am Laslo.
How is Brexit anything but secession?
How is it different from south carolina seceeding in 1860?
If Europe went to war to force England to remain, would it be a "Civil War"? Or perhaps a "War Between the States"?
Should the United States (of America) take sides in a war of secession in the united states (of Europe)?
If so, which side?
John Henry
Rotwang's Cabana Boy writes: I'm sure the framers never expected that a third of the entire population would live in one-fifth of the states...
Actually, that's very nearly the distribution of the national population in 1785.
Sounds like a pretty unoriginal and boilerplate column from a Jew at the NYT.
Did she start it with 'Felow white people...'
Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
One obvious point, a majority of UK residents voted for Brexit, a minority voted for Trump.
ARM and the Field Marshall don't understand that Trump got the majority outside California. Hillary LOST the rest of the country outside CA with 33% of the welfare recipients and 25% of the illegals.
Yes, Beasts, we are
I was being facetious.
The only thing worse than too much work is not enough.
John Henry
"What happened to the reverence for the Framers and the Constitution?"
LOL
Dude, that is so, like, 72 hours ago for the lefties!
Today's lefty/LLR-lefty narratives require us to hate the Founding Fathers again, so anything that happened before 15 minutes ago is officially whitewashed away.
Aunty Trump for all the wins
The left would be thrilled to let LA county pick the president.
CLEARLY, the ONLY FAIR WAY to divide electoral votes, is by Throw weight
So,
North Dakota has Minot AFB
Montana has Malmstrom AFB
Wyoming has FE Warren AFB
Missouri has Whiteman AFB
Louisiana has Barksdale AFB
Washington has Naval Base Kitsap
Georgia has Naval Base Kings Bay
No one else gets a vote.
I'm not sure how to allocate the Tridents though. Clearly Kitsap and Kings Bay (currently) have MUCH more throw weight assigned to them (since the Minuteman III's are no longer MIRV'd), but do we count subs at sea? Or just subs at base?
One thing is for sure... The TOTAL Throw weight of California, New York, Illinois; COMBINED equals ZERO Megatons. These states should Shut The FUCK Up, and let the actual powers that be, run the country
for personal reasons, i think it's CLEAR though, that SSBN-742's throw weight counts for Wyoming
Bill Clinton won with less that 50% of the vote each time. 1992 and 1996.
1 in 8 people who live in the US, live in CA.
CA went for corrupt Hillary by 3-4 million more votes.
According to the fair-minded left, it is only fair to give it to her and say "SCREW YOU!" to all the states that went for Trump.
This is why the NY Times is considered a "better quality" publication. I'll just put Goldberg on the "potential genocidal loon" list and move on.
Another reason for California to secede. They could have their President Hillary. (/sarc, gilbar)
It’s quite funny how Michelle Goldberg thinks that she is going to have some sort of an important place within the new “Democrat coalition of the ascendant”. Like that motley collection of peoples of color and alphabet people are going to care about some self righteous, boring upper Eastside white Jew.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/12/the-week-in-pictures-sham-wow-mockery-travesty-edition.php
She’s crazy and so is anyone who believes any of that load of crap. Facts and reason do not penetrate their skulls.
“Reality is just not my thing, man.”
This is the paper that covered up the holomodor, that gave fidel his job, that almost did the same for the flmn;
NYT columnists are just as important as street winos yelling at passing cars.
I'm sure the framers never expected that the largest state would have a population almost eighty times that of the smallest state (or that a third of the entire population would live in one-fifth of the states).
Why are you so sure about that Freder?
The Founding Fathers were pretty astute.
Yes, America should be ruled by the 16% of counties that voted for Hillary, rather than destroyed by the 84% of counties that voted for Trump. That is what democracy is all about.
The absurd premise of Hunger Games may become closer to reality in our future. Rather than Districts, it will be dense urban areas ruling the country and the fly-over states being the lower caste districts working to make it easier for the Capital and higher caste districts.
I think we will have to go through a cycle of destruction, before we return to the old normal. Once we snub out bad capitalism, we will run out of money to support all those who are not paid by the profits of their employers. Those who want to control the doling out of other people's money will finally learn about the laws of economics. Investment capital and wealth will slip out of the US and no one will notice.
Time and again we are reminded that the lefties are such nasty little shits. Scratch a librul and there’s a tyrant scah-reeeeeming to get out.
- Krumhorn
Trump is just an unfortunate externality of the non majoritarian structure of the federal government. Liberals often tout The need for increasing the rights and power of minorities. This compassion should include deplorables who are in serious need of drug therapy, crash diets and STEM education. Then might be possible for them to rise up above their lowly station and to actually compete in the free marketplace with the coastal elites.
Neicons like ARM shill for the party of the rich and their love of cheap labor. What’s new?
The main reason for the electoral college is that the rest of the original States didn’t want Virginia alone to elect the President every year. The same reason applies now as States don’t want 5 metropolitan areas to do the same. An amendment will not pass to change it my opinion, as the original deal is still supported. I don’t see how the courts could find the college unconstitutional either, as it is part of the constitution, perhaps I am naive here.
As Meadehouse has observed, for impeachment to be really legitimate public polls should be in the 66% range.
the founders had read the classics, were familiar with gibbon, probably the first news of Pompeii discovery might have broken through, that's why they didn't want standing armies in part, they had seen how parliament can become instrusive, and the power of an overweening executive, trump is largely devolutionary, the progs want to rule, as is loki's wish,
John henry said:
How is Brexit anything but secession?
How is it different from south carolina seceeding in 1860?
I have wondered about this too. America fought a brutal civil war and took almost a million casualties to preserve the Union. But if Scotland wants to walk, will Britain just say, "Tsk, that's a shame"? It seems very odd (and I suppose very 21st century British) that they would not fight to preserve their country.
Krumhorn is sniffing the JP-4 again.
Last I checked my calculator, Hillary’s 49% wasn’t a majority, either. I’d bet a year’s pay that there are more Republicans who dont bother to cast their nullified votes for president in blue states than there are Dems in all the red states.
I knew you were, John Henry - it’s all good!
SECRETARY CLINTON: Yes, yes. And then he says to me, well, you know, we'll claim Hawaii. And I said, yeah, but we have proof we bought it. Do you have proof you brought any of these places you're claiming? So we got into the nitty-gritty of --
MR. BLANKFEIN: But they have to take New Jersey.
(Laughter.)
SECRETARY CLINTON: No, no, no. We're going to give them a red state.
(Laughter and applause.)
Hilary at Goldman Sachs.
More NYT has a permanent case of TDS. The economy is for little people.
Howard: "This compassion should include deplorables who are in serious need of drug therapy, crash diets and STEM education."
It is very encouraging from a republican electoral perspective to see the continuing Corbynization of Americas dems.
It bodes very well for us in 2020.
Very well indeed.
Progressive circles:
1. Admire anyone who lives within one mile of you;
2. Ignore anyone more than a mile away. If those people intrude on your circle, have the police chase and arrest them. Hate the police;
3. Deplore anyone who lives more than 30 miles away;
4. When you find another circle where everyone deplores the people you deplore, admire the people in that circle;
5. Foreign lands have their own circles:
a. Admire everyone, and buy souvenirs from the people who are deplored by their countrymen; but,
b. If the culture of these deplored people contributed to the culture of your own deplored people, deplore those people.
I think that there's a board game in this.
that might be more true of the Scottish and irish independence movements, the former may very well be Russian inspired, considering the number of military installations on their soil, just like the qataris seem to be behind the Catalan movement,
Giovan Pietro Bellori said...
Neicons
Before attempting a racist slur you should learn to spell.
Gilbar
Nebraska has Minuteman missiles and StratCon.
We were one nation. The Scots are a conquered people and different than the English. I am not sure that if it weren’t for slavery and the anti slavery sentiments of the Republicans in the North, that we would have fought so hard to keep the South had they decided to leave for some other reason.
"An amendment will not pass to change it my opinion, as the original deal is still supported. I don’t see how the courts could find the college unconstitutional either, as it is part of the constitution, perhaps I am naive here."
That's why they're trying their "pact" thing.
I'm sorry Drago did that zinger hit a little bit too close to home?
Blogger Aunty Trump said...
The Scots are a conquered people and different than the English.
Hear, hear.
very sober people,
https://www.pulse.com.gh/filla/man-who-promised-to-donate-testicle-if-donald-trump-is-impeached-shares-update/2brpncp?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark
You know what, the people who were bored or just confused in math class are still Americans, and they aren’t going to go away just because the Howards of the world think that the country has moved on. They will be with us no matter what. We are not communists or fascists who would line them up on the edge of a ditch and mow them down. If they can’t or won't do STEM, maybe we shouldn’t be importing millions of manual laborers to do the jobs they can do, driving down their wages and opportunities?
No, that will never work, they vote wrong! Well they would probably still be Democrats if the party hadn’t kicked them to the curb in their lickspittle obeisance to the mega rich who have taken over their party. The people who benefit most from mass immigration are the very rich.
Ahh, so the Founding Fathers are bad again. Or are they ones we must honor?
It ain't moving goal posts it's whack-a-mole.
Althouse once reduced Goldberg to nervous wreck on Bloggingheads.
How about a compromise- we let Hillary be President of California, and Trump can be President of the rest of the states. Since that's how the popular vote fell out.
The President specifically, and the Federal Government, in general, is not supposed to hold this much sway over a persons life. The Federal govt exists to do those things the States, and or the people could not do for its self.
Kwitchurbitch'n unless you are willing to claw back the power the people, and the states have willingly abdicated.
Prove me wrong
"One obvious point, a majority of UK residents voted for Brexit, a minority voted for Trump."
One obvious point, only half of this statement is true.
(Obvious point to those not suffering from TDS: we play by the long established rules in America until the rules are changed - or at least we should.)
I don’t know whether Beloved is being facetious or not, but Hadrian’s Wall is the the furthest extent of the Roman Empire and the peoples conquered by Rome, the English, for example, or the French, are different than the people who weren’t, the Irish and the Scots. You can also discern the limits of Roman Conquest in voting patterns in Germany to this day. The Romans were brutal and absolute conquerors and they changed the people they ruled.
one must deconstruct the country, that's what howard zinn began, jill Lepore and the 1619 project continue,
Well said, Aunty
My approximately one-quarter British isle blood is made up of Welsh Scottish and Irish. Fuck the English.
Aunty Trump said...
You know what, the people who were bored or just confused in math class are still Americans
Two things in a row that I agree with.
And, the people who have been raised in dysfunctional families in the inner cities, the mid-west and south are all Americans.
A strange complaint from the nasty people that revel in their hatred for the Scots Irish culture of America that accepts any and all groups who will play by our rules. In essence she demands to end our rules. That shows a deep arrogance in her insider elite writers that plan to win the resulting chaos olympics and rule over us as their slaves.
Our response is to arm ourselves. Boy does that set them off.
Just follow up on Aunties post which is a clear and concise summary of why Trump was elected president. It should be used by the Democrats to defeat him but unfortunately I don't think they can overcome their emotional baggage to be clear on the matter. Therefore I believe your man will be re-elected unless of course the Democrats over the next 6 months to decide to pull their heads out of Trumps anal orifice
we see in nbc trumpeting facebook's craven kneeling to the prc, re falung gong,
Goldberg is stupid.
You got it all wrong traditional guy. The frustration is that the great Scot Irish culture of the USA has been supplanted by a devolving America fixated on televangelism obesity and opioid addiction and bears little resemblance to the old school
For those commenting on Scottish independence, please note that my note comparing brexit to the US War between the states did not even think about Scotland.
My was: what is the difference between Britain seceeding from the EU and South Carolina et al seceeding from the US.
John Henry
You face the “horror of Trump” because your candidate was Hillary Fucking Clinton, war monger and grifter extraordinaire.
and she->will lose again. But this time, with botox.
Not that Scottish independence isn't an interesting topic. On its own.
John Henry
I hate to burst people's bubbles, but the only one's who care about "THE CONSTITUTION" are people on the Center-Right. There's no willingness on the Left to obey THE CONSTITUTION when it prevents them from gaining and keeping power. However, they're perfectly happy to use it as a weapon to enforce their will. Every D POTUS candidate with a couple of exceptions is OK with getting rid of the Electoral College, since it hurts the D's. They're also willing to Pack the SCOTUS to "make it more fair".
They were fine with it when Bill Clinton won an EC majority in 1992 despite only getting about 40% of the popular vote. Without the EC, shouldn’t that election have gone to a runoff between Clinton and Bush?
John Henry, well for one thing Britain ruled the world up until the second world War and has always been fully independent of Europe the EU started out as an economic alliance. It failed when it morphed into a bureaucratic command and control system. So it's a completely different situation. Also no man is an island but a country like great Britain surely is
An Englishman, an Irishman, and a Scot go into a bar and order a beer. A fly lands in each beer.
The Englishman pushes his glass away in disgust.
The Irishman removes the fly and takes a drink.
The Scot, takes hold of the fly and yells: "Spit out what you've stolen, you bloody bastard".
3 nations separated by a common language.
I am weary of the brain ooze from the left and particularly from those posing as thinkers on the staff of the NYT. Can't even take these people seriously any longer. They have put themselves on a par with CNN in my mind and I can't get them separated. That's not a good standard for the NYT.
The paper of record. All the news that's fit to print. My ass.
The Canadians had a referendum in1995 for Quebec succession, the vote was 50.5 pct no. If they would have voted yes the rest of Canada would have let them go. Quebec dodged a bullet, the dog doesn’t know what to do if it catches the car.
Blogger gilbar said...
CLEARLY, the ONLY FAIR WAY to divide electoral votes, is by Throw weight
So,
North Dakota has Minot AFB
Montana has Malmstrom AFB
Wyoming has FE Warren AFB
Missouri has Whiteman AFB
Louisiana has Barksdale AFB
Washington has Naval Base Kitsap
Georgia has Naval Base Kings Bay
No one else gets a vote.
At one time North Dakota was the 4th largest nuclear power in the world.
I agree with both Aunty Trump and Howard.
Trump is obviously not the answer but no one else has proposed an obvious way forward either.
Once people start down self-defeating pathways it is very difficult to turn that around. We are developing a rigid class system like the British and the Indians. It is not based on accent or lineage so much as parental attitudes. As such, it seems easy to change, but attitudes are proving just as resistant to change as phonemes and genes.
Ok Michelle Goldberg, now do Prop 8.
You could argue that the French and the English have been fighting a civil war since the end of the Dark Ages. Germany just kind of horned in, which was too much for the English to bear. Kind of like when your lover/frenemy France, brings home her new boyfriend, Germany, and wants to drag you into bed for a three-way.
From the 1340s to the 19th century, excluding two brief intervals in the 1360s and the 1420s, the kings and queens of England (and, later, of Great Britain) also claimed the throne of France. The claim dates from Edward III, who claimed the French throne in 1340 as the sororal nephew of the last direct Capetian, Charles IV. Edward and his heirs fought the Hundred Years' War to enforce this claim, and were briefly successful in the 1420s under Henry V and Henry VI, but the House of Valois, a cadet branch of the Capetian dynasty, was ultimately victorious and retained control of France. Despite this, English and British monarchs continued to prominently call themselves kings of France, and the French fleur-de-lis was included in the royal arms. This continued until 1801, by which time France no longer had any monarch, having become a republic. The Jacobite claimants, however, did not explicitly relinquish the claim.. - Wikipedia
David Begley said...
Nebraska has Minuteman missiles and StratCon.
Sorry, i guess we need to consider Colorado too. I think of All those as part of FE Warren. But you're right. Nebraska DOES have Minuteman throw weight. I'm kinda embarrassed, since the only minuteman sites, i've actually SEEN have all been in nebraska (one, right on the wyo border (c-11, b-03, b-02, b-11 of the 319th)
The Scots are a conquered people and different than the English.
I bet Maggie Thatcher would have conquered them again.
"Trump is obviously not the answer but no one else has proposed an obvious way forward either. “
Yup. But I have thrown in with him because I was born and raised among those benighted Americans that the Democrats have abandoned, and the tech billionaires do not have their back. I could be persuaded away, but not by people who can’t recognize why Trump was elected. As Andrew Sullivan said when writing about Boris Johnson. There is amazing healing power in the sense that you have actually been heard.
In short, it’s working as intended. After 225+ years.
Amazing.
The President is not elected by the people, he is elected by the States. As the President of those States, you know, the United States. The States get to choose who can vote, you know, like Virginia allowing felons to vote. We don’t elect a President of America, or of Americans. Get a clue.
rcocean said... 3 nations separated by a common language.
chan eil Beurla againn
nà labhraÃonn muid Béarla
Aunty Trump said...
"This continued until 1801, by which time France no longer had any monarch, having become a republic."
Another argument in favor of the French revolution. Removing the hereditary thugs was a step forward for everyone.
When the English finally accept that the age of hereditary thugs is over maybe they will also find their way back into the EU.
Drago said...
Howard: "This compassion should include deplorables who are in serious need of drug therapy, crash diets and STEM education."
So...Stalin, Khrushchev, or Brezhnev, which one was your favorite, Howie? Because that was literally their agenda, under the names of Lysenkoism, Holodomor, and sluggish schizophrenia, or did you mean atmospheric pressure. Or in a word, GULag.
Oh and there are likely more obese minorities than whites per capita. You going to starve Stacy Abrams to death or offer her the kindness of nine grams? "Crash diets," forsooth, Speedy Otto!
If we tied government employees' retirement plans directly to the stock market -- kinda like how the private sector lives -- I bet the hate for Trump would continue, but they'd vote for him, anyway.
The government worker being provided for in a safe bubble unrelated to current events undermines democracy.
I am Laslo.
Sixty-EFN- six health insurance plans and Sandy whines.
Don’t I wish in my state.
Rance Fasoldt said...
The States get to choose who can vote
there's not even anything in the constitution that says you even Get to vote
There's things that say: you can't be denied the right to vote 'cause of....
But, there's LITERALLY NOTHING in the constitution that says how electoral college membership be formed. That is up to the states. ALL it says is:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct,
that's Why you can have such stupidity as a Legislature deciding that THEIR electoral votes should go the way LA county votes.
the founders had read the classics, were familiar with gibbon, probably the first news of Pompeii discovery might have broken through, that's why they didn't want standing armies in part, they had seen how parliament can become instrusive, and the power of an overweening executive,
As my dad said, the Founders lived it.
There’s a reason for those Amendments.
3 is garrisoning troops in homes, IIRC.
.
for a thousand years, the uk understood it had to be a part from the continent, now germany by diktat, holds what it couldn't accomplish in two wars,
’It should be used by the Democrats to defeat him but unfortunately I don't think they can overcome their emotional baggage to be clear on the matter.’
Well said, Howard.
They say that Hadrian built his wall, so that the Scots would stop warring against the Romans;
so that the Scots would go back to warring against their ancient enemies: The Scots
re Theresa ghillarducci, they want to confiscate private accounts and give out a pittance, they're just waiting for the next crash to do it in,
Laz: If we tied government employees' retirement plans directly to the stock market -- kinda like how the private sector lives -- I bet the hate for Trump would continue, but they'd vote for him, anyway.
Ha, I've often thought that.
In some ways gummint employees are analogous to preferred stock holders - they get screwed last and least when things head south, but sometimes things go far south enough for them to attain some clarity on the ultimate source of their pensions.
Aunty Trump said...
I have thrown in with him because I was born and raised among those benighted Americans that the Democrats have abandoned, and the tech billionaires do not have their back.
They don't, but the free market dictates that they won't. They need the best people at the lowest cost to be competitive in the global marketplace. This is part of the tragedy. Many US citizens bought into all the free market rhetoric of the 1980's without adequately considering what that actually meant for them and their families. There's no backsies now. Now they have to learn to compete globally and that means adopting a set of attitudes that foster intellectualism and intellectual competition in their children. It is remarkable how many are unwilling to do this, given our current reality.
The Electoral College will be scrapped at some point in the next 30 years- I think it is inevitable. At some point, the left will get a supermajority on the Supreme Court, either in the 9 justices, or an expanded version of the court, and when they do, a case will be brought that the Electoral College violates the Constitution, and that supermajority will endorse that result. That the Electoral College is explicitly written into the Constitution is going to be no barrier, and I think most people here know this deep down.
What the country is going to need is a peaceful and full political division, othewise there is going to be great violence in our future, but even that may not save us.
Howard said...
You got it all wrong traditional guy. The frustration is that the great Scot Irish culture of Scotland has been supplanted by a devolving Scotland fixated on televangelism obesity and opioid addiction and bears little resemblance to the old school
FIFY
"the right to rule"
Reminds me of the joke, "We're the Libertarians, we want to take over AND LEAVE YOU ALONE."
Seriously, the right to rule. De-regulate, cut taxes, allow you to deal with a puddle in your own back yard. That's "rule" by the right.
The left on the other hand.
Just another case in projection.
Libs aren't screaming about Trump packing the courts because they already have a strategy or 3 to bypass them.
"The Electoral College will be scrapped at some point in the next 30 years- I think it is inevitable."
Glad I'll be dead. One Florida/2000 was enough. Fifty of them? Holy hell.
Goldberg is the sound of a petulant scream,
https://streetwiseprofessor.com/historic-rhymes-from-the-popish-plot-to-the-putinish-plot/#comments
well it will be like the omega glory, without the intervention of the Chinese, republics haven't lasted for long intervals, the greek regime, about two hundred years from the fall of draco to the council of 30,
@ Howard @ 9:21... Your plea that American Scots Irish culture is a worthless mixture of over weight drug addicts is a silly slander of Trump's voters for winning, and winning, and winning. As for their support for televangelism, why do you see that to be an accusation. They will take Paula white over Michelle Goldberg any day.
There's an exit process in the EU treaty, not the Constitution. Time for an amendment?
CNN Is Not a News Network
NYT is advocacy for the left.
The Russians use the "Popular" Vote.
correction for hippias to the thirty tyrants, that was a much shorter interval, we know one grandee on the court, ruth Ginsberg prefers the south African constitution to the American one, where due process is a luxury,
As I wrote above- given the extreme political split, a political division is going to be necessary in the future if peace is going to be maintained. However, that might not stop the violence- the problem is going to be defining borders. Just this precinct level map of the 2016 election gives you an idea of the problem. It is a color coded map of the NYC/NJ/Eastern PA vote count from the 2016 election. You can see the problem defining a border, can't you?
yes it would be a very brutal type conflict like we have seen in Sarajevo or Beirut, not like the tidy American secession movement,
I don't pay any attention to Michelle Goldberg.
At least Michelle is out in the open about it ; she (they) loathe both President Trump and his supporters.
’Now they have to learn to compete globally and that means adopting a set of attitudes that foster intellectualism and intellectual competition in their children.’
Tell us about your career at the DMV, ARM!!
speaking of, did nasa and or boeing, just unlearn all the technology that got them into space, do they need the contraption from 'spock's brain'
"I don't pay any attention to Michelle Goldberg."
You don't have to pay attention to her specifically, but she is representative of the poltical divisions that have arose. It isn't an accident that the Left is attacking the Constitution directly these days- they see it as a barrier to their getting and keeping political rule of the country as a whole- attacks on the structure of the Senate, the Electoral College, the first two amendments, etc. The violence has already started, but is low level and sporadic, but that will change as time goes on.
’speaking of, did nasa and or boeing, just unlearn all the technology that got them into space’
The institutional knowledge has slipped away, narciso. Sad.
John Henry:
This is from Wikipedia, but I think it is still correct:
Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) states that "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements"
No such language exists in the US Constitution.
DOI
is an avatar of a Republican Party desperate to return to the 1980s, or the 1950s, or maybe the 1910s.
I notice she stopped before she had to address the 1860s.
Yet Trump is working to free certain interest groups from their mental plantations.
"This compassion should include deplorables who are in serious need of drug therapy, crash diets and STEM education. Then might be possible for them to rise up above their lowly station and to actually compete in the free marketplace with the coastal elites."
Workers in North Dakota and west Texas could not be reached for comment.
There was a time when one would get excoriated for comments like "serious need of drug therapy, crash diets and STEM education" when discussing inner city minority voters.
Thankfully we're more enlightened now.
it really is sad, no Peenemunde team, but no Katherine Johnson either, apparently,
every paper has at least one columnist, with the same mindset, it's a hive mind at the post and usa today, (which still refuses to go away) or the daily news,
Greg Hlatky said... "One obvious point, a minority voted for Clinton, who got 48.2% of the popular vote."
That was in 1996. He only got 43% in 1992, which was the 4th lowest percentage, I think, when compared to 1824, 1860, and 1912. I think Lincoln at 39.8% is the lowest ever, but Lincoln, Wilson, and Clinton all clearly won the electoral vote,. which shows the value of the electoral college.
The 1824 election was the most interesting as I believe Jackson won the plurality of votes and the EC but not a majority of either. J. Q. Adams won the vote in the House following the procedure in the 12th Amendment. I would guess many poorly educated progs would really be triggered if they learned that if the election goes to the House because no one gets a majority of the EC there is ONLY ONW VOTE PER STATE, with the most votes deciding the winner.
ONE, not ONW. Trying to type too fast.
Aunty Trump has a new admirer.
"There's no backsies now.”
It’s not playground rules. Clearly “backsies” are possible and Trump is seeking them. Trump is also standing up to the military industrial complex, A.K.A. the deep state, and they are trying “six ways from Sunday” to #RESIST his efforts to wind down wars we should never have entered. No serious proponent of peace should vote for anyone else. This collection of tools [Biden] and nebishes [Buttigig] will be putty in their hands.
As Rumsfeld once said, “you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.” It would be great of Vaclav Havel decided to take up the cudgels for working class Americans, but it ain’t happening and I don’t vote in dreamland for unicorn drawn trains and policies that depend on catching a bunch of leprechauns for their pots of gold.
Republicans ought to be ruing the fact that they could have impeached Obama just for being Obama.
Blogger chickelit said..."Aunty Trump has a new admirer."
If you mean ARM, that isn't anything positive.
Sick burn ARM on that typo!!!! Blistering!!!!
I guess that deal-with-the-critique stuff from the other thread is just bullshit for the rubes like your neocon buddies are always doing.
But actually ARM you’re making some sense in the thread so keep going on that.
The 1824 election was the most interesting as I believe Jackson won the plurality of votes and the EC but not a majority of either. J. Q. Adams won the vote in the House following the procedure in the 12th Amendment.
That was "The Corrupt Bargain" that led to Jackson's win next time. This, I think, is another similarity with Trump. The impeachment is another corrupt bargain that will resonate in November.
An attempt at a corrupt bargain that failed.
Aunty Trump said...
Clearly “backsies” are possible and Trump is seeking them.
This is the same magical thinking that got us here in the first place. Trump has no solutions. He is an empty-headed salesman who is good at judging the mood of the room.
The solution is to accept that we are now in a global market place and that we have no choice other than to compete with the best from China, India and Europe. That means maximizing our human capital. We have to invest heavily in the education of our kids, not so much financially but in terms of familial and community support, just as these other nations do. We have to dramatically raise the level of our own human capital. We have to embrace intellectualism. What we have seen so far is only a small taste of how bad things will get if we fail to do this. Many families will prosper in the future but the country will increasingly look like all those shitty south American countries, with an educated elite and a desperate working class.
as far as one can ascertain, the Capitol district in the hunger games, is somewhere in the rockies, and district 12 was near west virgina
Ah Michelle--Democracy and all that dies in stupidity. Hillary Clinton was plus 4 million votes over Trump in California---but was actually 1 million votes less than Trump in the rest of country. So maybe the Hildebeest was a "democratic winner in California" but she was a net vote loser in the rest of the 57 states in Obama's mind.
Anyway spare me your hysterical bleating.
The solution is to accept that we are now in a global market place and that we have no choice other than to compete with the best from China, India and Europe. That means maximizing our human capital. We have to invest heavily in the education of our kids, not so much financially but in terms of familial and community support, just as these other nations do. We have to dramatically raise the level of our own human capital. We have to embrace intellectualism. What we have seen so far is only a small taste of how bad things will get if we fail to do this. Many families will prosper in the future but the country will increasingly look like all those shitty south American countries, with an educated elite and a desperate working class.
I dunno. Does the Apple iPhone -- manufactured in China -- represent the "best of China"? Or is it simply the best of America produced in China by cheaper labor? You of all people, ARM, should be able to sort that one out.
narciso said...as far as one can ascertain, the Capitol district in the hunger games, is somewhere in the rockies, and district 12 was near west virgina
District 12 was the coal-producing region. Libs would like nothing more than to firebomb the whole coal industry in the US.
"Many families will prosper in the future but the country will increasingly look like all those shitty south American countries, with an educated elite and a desperate working class."
You mean like California?
" We have to invest heavily in the education of our kids, "
Meaning "PAY TEACHERS MORE!!!"
That's worked so well for California.
"What we have seen so far is only a small taste of how bad things will get if we fail to do this."
Don’t call anyone a neocon!!! It’s racist unless a Democrat does it.
The US economy is doing OK, it is the distribution of that success that is creating problems.
The less-than-500 counties that Hillary Clinton carried nationwide encompassed a massive 64 percent of America’s economic activity as measured by total output in 2015. By contrast, the more-than-2,600 counties that Donald Trump won generated just 36 percent of the country’s output—just a little more than one-third of the nation’s economic activity.
Did our resident dullard (male edition) not notice his linked economic figures are from 2015? 😂
Hillary Clinton was plus 4 million votes over Trump in California---but was actually 1 million votes less than Trump in the rest of country. So maybe the Hildebeest was a "democratic winner in California" but she was a net vote loser in the rest of the 57 states in Obama's mind.
This is what ARM and then rest don't ever seem to get.
Why does China and Europe and Korea and Viet Nam and even Canada fight with the US in trade deals over those low skill jobs? Because they bring political stability. Immigration undermines the working classes and benefits the rich. Mass immigration exacerbates income inequality, it’s simple economics, which the Democrats claim to care about, and for which they offer their own “magical thinking” dirigist solutions that defy fundamental economic laws like supply and demand.
Democrats want to end fracking, which even Hillary Clinton has admitted in her Goldman Sachs speech, gives the US advantages not just in energy, but manufacturing. My brother used to run large factories as a plant manager, with hundreds of employees, he told me once that fracking and cheap natural gas saved him between one and two million dollars a year, straight to his bottom line running his plant.
Democrats need to go back to what Democrats used to be, pro working class, pro worker, pro little people, and pro America, and Trump will fade away like a bad dream, but the white left, flush with California tech dollars, has co-opted it. So that ain’t happening. Now you have Democrats ranking on the poor.
I wish we could get back to the quality of education I enjoyed in New York State public schools, but social engineers have destroyed it, gutted it, and bid fair to snuff the enlightenment while they are at it.
ARM,
Why stop at counties? Why not just go down to the level of an individual voter? If you broke down the vote by total income, what do you suppose you might find? If you can't answer that, perhaps you should investigate the vote breakdown by income, and get back to us.
There's no backsies now.
There's always the possibility of a "backsies". Things come together, and things fall apart. There is no "end of history".
The current round of globalization (and there's nothing new about "globalization") is causing too much social instability to be sustainable. We wouldn't be here yakking about Trump, Brexit, etc., etc.. if it were. No Martian would observe the behavior and rhetoric of our current PTBs (for want of a better shorthand term) and not notice the fragility of the system.
Many US citizens bought into all the free market rhetoric of the 1980's without adequately considering what that actually meant for them and their families.
Agree with you there. "Conservative" skulls in particular can be mighty thick on that point. Remarkable to have watched the progress of philosophical re-evaluations from income decile to income decile over the last three decades, as the pressures of globalization moved up the socioeconomic ladder. ("Wait, I have a STEM degree! I make good money! Way more than those blue-collar and shit-tier middle-classers make! What do you mean that's not enough any more for *me* to buy my way out of the "destruction" part of creative destruction?!?!? What the fuck I love Bernie now!"]
Now they have to learn to compete globally and that means adopting a set of attitudes that foster intellectualism and intellectual competition in their children. It is remarkable how many are unwilling to do this, given our current reality.
Careful, you don't want to much intellectualism there, boyo. You want 'em just smart enough to function productively and profitably in their cubicles, and pliant and passive enough that economic anxiety keeps 'em tractable. You don't want 'em questioning whether the global flop-house vision of life is the summum bonum of human existence.
And also, unfortunately, in Western countries the left side of the bell curve isn't likely to just humbly accept that they're economically redundant and should be damned grateful that the quality lets them out of their favelas to clean their toilets for a few beans, now and again.
All you’re saying with that ARM is that Trump counties provide lower value-added or lower-margin items. But a lot of that stuff is finance and tech and of course government “output”. What would Derrida say about that? Because in this case the supplément is made of of food and energy which require a great deal of space. Professions don’t.
Nichevo: unfortunately you are right about Scotland.
My approximately one-quarter British isle blood is made up of Welsh Scottish and Irish. Fuck the English.
I am a bit more hopeful for the English, with my 7/8 British isle blood (roughly 3/8 English, 3/8 Welsh, and 1/8 Scottish).
It is true that at the moment richer people tend to vote GOP. This reflects the structural advantages that whites and older citizens, who favor the GOP, have had. But, the communities that are advancing economically right now tend to be blue. This is a relatively recent phenomena. The relative incomes of the typical GOP voter are falling as the party relies increasingly heavily on voters from dysfunctional white regions. Things are in flux, but the trends are pretty obvious.
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