October 11, 2019

False flag? How do I know this is real?



IN THE COMMENTS: Infinite Monkeys said "Tweeted video of when the police showed up to the hat burning." I'm watching this. It's interesting. The people near the hats don't seem like Trumpsters, but not seeming like Trumpsters would be what false flaggers would do. The cops ride up on bicycles (and protesters scream at them, including "Get off your bike, bitch!"):

72 comments:

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Antifa fascists - acting like fascists.
Good little leftwing Nazi.

LuAnn Zieman said...

Channel 4 WCCO CBS Minnesota verifies that a bonfire of hats was lit The headline reads Protesters Make Bonfire With President Trump Hats, Apparel Outside His Minneapolis Rally. They also threw things at the police and horses on which police were seated. This makes me angry. Both for the police AND the horses!

rehajm said...

Applying the They Only Report What They Think Helps Their Side Rule...I’d say I have no idea.

Robert Williams said...

"False flag? How do I know this is real?"
The prima fascia case is because there are perhaps no instances where Trump supporters and conservatives have committed a false-flag operation like this, and (1) hundreds of examples of left-wing hoaxes and (2) hundreds of examples of left-wing protesters doing this types of thing.

narayanan said...

Reasonzzz

....... Trumpsters usually clean up and put trash in dumpsters?!

AllenS said...

A huge amount of people showed up to see Trump in Minneapolis. He will win Minnesota in 2020 and add to his collection of electoral college votes.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Given the track record of anti-Trump protesters, is there much reason to think that someone would need to fake this?

Yes, skepticism is healthy, and I'm willing to posit the possibility that this was a false flag operation. But I don't think that is a likely scenario.

Todd said...

Even if it is not "real" is it the Antifa's "truth". Isn't that the new standard? "Fake but accurate"? Not saying it is not real, not saying it is real. Just that in today's world, by lefty rules, does it actually matter?

Gahrie said...

How many hoaxes have come from the Right?

ESM said...

Can't be a false flag. Trump supporters would never leave such a mess.

ESM said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

It’s plausible, but not the hat-stealing part. More likely they bought a bunch of red hats and mixed in a MAGA or two that they really did steal for verisimilitude.

gspencer said...

How do you know this is real?

Like this isn't typical of leftists?

n.n said...

Antifa fascists? There are precedents.

tim maguire said...

It's real because it wouldn't have occurred to Trump supporters to do this. That's not how the right rolls.

Infinite Monkeys said...

Tweeted video of when the police showed up to the hat burning.

Amadeus 48 said...

False flag? Trump supporters don't think that way.

Don't over-analyze this. Trump himself is pretty subtle while appearing to say whatever he is thinking at the moment, but Team Trump is very direct.

Francisco D said...

How do we know it is real?

It would help if the Police arrested some of these jamokes.

Oso Negro said...

Street theater is pretty much an antic of the left. If the right takes to the streets again, I suspect it will be a lot more than theater.

mockturtle said...

Antifa doesn't do false flags.

wendybar said...

Because there is video...and lots of it on line from people who were there???

sTony said...

Its like watching an ad for testosterone supplements for men with low-T.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide. No escape from reality.

Sebastian said...

This is the left.

So, Althouse, have you had enough? If not, what'll it take?

Ken B said...

Is it on a cruise ship? Then it would be fantasy.

From what we see here, we don’t know. The incentive to fake is strong, and all we see is the alleged aftermath. No one filmed the event? but we have also seen attacks on MAGA hats that were real.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“It’s plausible, but not the hat-stealing part. More likely they bought a bunch of red hats and mixed in a MAGA or two that they really did steal for verisimilitude.”

This. Remember it’s theater, not happenstance.

cacimbo said...

Check out the "It's going down" website - then you will find it very easy to believe this was done by "anti-fascist" fascists.

https://itsgoingdown.org/call-for-an-anti-capitalist-bloc-at-the-anti-trump-protest-in-minneapolis/

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Hey kids, let’s make a movie!”

Birches said...

Powerline has a video of the fire and the people chanting around it. If there were false flag people starting it, they certainly didn't have any resistance from the anti Trump crowd. They were definitely happy to join in.

Maillard Reactionary said...

Well, like any other event, the degree of certainty associated with its interpretation depends on the evidence, past and present. This includes the context of similar events.

In the present case, one could reflect that there never has been a well-documented incident of conservatives (or Trump supporters) attacking and trying to stifle the political speech of leftists (i.e., Democrats), much less doing so on a repeated and ongoing basis. It just isn't their style.

Does that help?

chickelit said...

It sounds real to me.

Maillard Reactionary said...

Our Esteemed Hostess' unique combination of erudition and seemingly deliberate obtuseness is one of the things that makes this blog interesting to read. She has apparently arrived at a stable equilibrium in that regard, and is in no hurry to disturb it.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Well, it's consistent with known behavior of the left. So there's that.

traditionalguy said...

Anti free speech by attacking hats with Trumpian speech on them. Soros will be pleased. He is finally getting his. Money's Worth. But this will just sell more MAGA hats. And it exposes Communist police state tactics as intolerable by sane American citizens.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

Our Esteemed Hostess' unique combination of erudition and seemingly deliberate obtuseness is one of the things that makes this blog interesting to read. She has apparently arrived at a stable equilibrium in that regard, and is in no hurry to disturb it.

Althouse is a fish -- A very educated fish who has read all the reports transmitted back by rovers sent up to explore the dry land. She knows the latest theories about life on the surface and how it differs from life in the sea, but she still doesn't notice the water everyday.

Of course I'm a fish too.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Only one party should be allowed to campaign. Democracy dies in wokeness.

Amadeus 48 said...

Oh, yeah. Let's get a tag for "Althouse is trolling."

tcrosse said...

So Minneapolis has become Portland East, only without the food.

Michael K said...

The only thing "false" about this is the story that they got the hats from Trump supporters. I doubt that. The rest is on video.

Tina Trent said...

Dog bites man.

Antifa and their allies attack civilians and police wherever they go.

Just two weeks ago, I watched a group try to break through police lines and throw things. They were arrested immediately, so nothing else happened. In 2016 I attended every major anti-Trump protest in Atlanta and North Georgia and recorded hours of coordinated attempts to break through police lines and assault peaceful Trump supporters. In 2012 I spent about fifty hours monitoring them acting out in public, and I watched other and earlier iterations like Occupy, Refuse and Resist, and Bread not Bombs do the same since the late 1980s. Police have to engage in massive interventions to prevent even worse from being done by leftist thugs wherever they gather. They force all of us to pay for public safety by threatening and committing nonstop acts of property destruction and physical assault. They get away with exactly as much as we let them, and we need to stop letting them do it at all.

Arrest them as soon as they fling the first bottle at the first cop, or tear down the first barricade. Enforce permit rules equally. Arrest anyone who violates the permitting process by refusing to cease un-permitted counter-protests. Heavily fine the people and groups who get permits, then riot. Problem solved. And that includes the scumbag Unitarian Universalists who have long abetted all these groups, helping them plot and carry out everything from assaults on police to bombings. There's a story that merits telling.

Why would you think this isn't true? Are you saying they bought the hats instead of stealing them from individuals? Do you think they bought all of them?

gahrie said...

This is the left.

So, Althouse, have you had enough? If not, what'll it take?


Republicans to change their opposition to abortion and gay marriage.

Robert Cook said...

"'The brave members of law enforcement risk their lives EVERY DAY to protect the rights of these radical protestors.'"

Really? Do law enforcement officers actually risk their lives EVER, much less "every day," to protect the rights of protestors? How do they do this? They risk their lives at times in their interactions with dangerous offenders, or when public gatherings become violent--which protects the public's safety--but what do they do to protect the public's rights?

rcocean said...

False Flag? Against Antifa? Huh? Why would anyone have to run one against them. There specialty is hating and attacking people. Besides, Trump supporters are simply too politically dumb and good natured to think of "False Flags". You can barely get them to criticize Antifa for beating their heads in.

rcocean said...

Antifa beats people up, hits them in the head with bike locks (see Scott Adams on the subject) but burning some hats is way, way too extreme for them. I'm shocked anyone would try to blacken their sterling reputation with a "false flag" hat burning.

rcocean said...

The real question is why the DoJ isn't prosecuting Antifa for being a criminal organization, since they regularly cross state lines with the intention of committing violence.

And also why those people who are attacked, don't sue the cities who've allowed them to wear masks, organize, and attack people with homemade weapons. People should getting $$$ for the Liberal/left Mayors deliberate refusal to maintain safety.

Tina Trent said...

So police only risk their lives when protesters are trying to kill them. Except there's no way to know when that is.

What's the question again?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Acting like a fascist to own the fascists. Sounds like a winning strategy.

rcocean said...

Years ago Antifa tried to countermarch and attack some people in Alabama, or maybe Georgia, and the police REFUSED to allow them into the area unless they gave up their masks and weapons. There was no violence. Why is ANYONE allowed to wear a mask in public unless its Halloween?

n.n said...

Republicans to change their opposition to abortion and gay marriage.

Planned child, yes. Not "gay" marriage, which is exclusive; but trans-marriage, which is inclusive of the spectrum ("rainbow"). That said, why stop at two, which is clearly a cisnormal number. Why stop with love, which is clearly a label and judgment.

n.n said...

Antifa doesn't do false flags.

It happened in Charlottesville, where Antifa setup an abortion zone to capture and paint an assembly of people, but unexpectedly, perhaps, sacrificed one of their own activists.

Big Mike said...

@Cookie, you really are that stupid, aren't you? It's not some strange sort of ongoing gag.

We already saw what happens when the police are ordered to stand down and not come between peaceful protestors and violent lefties. It was called Charlottesville.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Read a local police blotter- Robert Cook.
Eye-opening.

tim in vermont said...

Maybe they are protecting their right to not get killed by a speeding a-hole when crossing the street, or to not have their stuff taken if their attention flags for a second, or not to be mugged when out at night, or not raped in gangs, like what happened in Cologne that New Year’s Eve? You think that if there were no cops, law and order would not break down?

Cops protect lots of rights and it’s dangerous work

tim in vermont said...

I doubt Trump supporters could pull off a false flag like this, complete with berating cops, but if it is, good on them. Fight fire with fire.... heh.

Francisco D said...

The only thing "false" about this is the story that they got the hats from Trump supporters. I doubt that. The rest is on video.

If they bought the hats they contributed money to the Trump campaign.

All for the show. Smart fellas.

Why are we worried abut these dopes?

Big Mike said...

Why are we worried abut these dopes?

Because of their propensity towards violence, tacitly (and sometimes overtly) supported by the leadership of one of the two major political parties in this country.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

rcocean said...

Years ago Antifa tried to countermarch and attack some people in Alabama, or maybe Georgia, and the police REFUSED to allow them into the area unless they gave up their masks and weapons. There was no violence. Why is ANYONE allowed to wear a mask in public unless its Halloween?

Same thing happened in Richmond, VA a couple of years ago when a small group of people held a rally is support of the statues on Monument Avenue. A large number of 'counter-protesters' showed up and Richmond PD handled the situation by invoking Virginia's mask law, telling them they'd be arrested if they didn't unmask. That pretty much put a stop to any nastiness on the part of Antifa.

hombre said...

“How do I know this is real.” Past experience and observations perhaps. It’s what the Democrat version of the IRA does.

Ray - SoCal said...

The San Jose lawsuit by Trump supporters is ongoing.

City tried to get it thrown out, went to appeals, and is back at the district level.

And this is for an event 3 years ago!

I’m curious on the status. I’m hearing nothing about it for a while.

Seems class action was denied to sue as a group.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-18/trump-fans-suing-cops-over-2016-rally-lose-bid-for-class-action

Qualified immunity was shot down
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/17-15576/17-15576-2018-07-27.html

It’s frustrating the lack of information on the status.

The Republicans don’t seem to understand there are two battles
- judicial
- public opinion



JAORE said...

"It would help if the Police arrested some of these jamokes."

It would help more if they got actual jail time.

Jim at said...

Sorry, but if you have to ask if it's real or false flag, you haven't been paying attention.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I think we'd be hearing from those whose hats were stolen from their heads -- probably from DJT himself -- if that part were true. I think it's more likely that those stunning and brave antifa clowns bought a twenty pack on Amazon and burned them for show.

It's all so very very exciting, isn't it. Better than XBOX! Better than whipits behind the Circle K! I've got half a stiffie just thinking about it!

I cannot find the words to express my contempt for these pantloads.

Big Mike said...

According to tweets by Elijah Schaffer, the Antifa crowd really did get violent and physically attacked Trump supporters.

Ken B said...

Eh. I can believe in a single Trumpkin false flag. I can even maybe buy a couple of Trumpers work8ng together. But an elaborate multi person false flag? I find that very implausible.

Mary Beth said...

If they bought the hats they contributed money to the Trump campaign.

Probably Chinese knockoffs.

Matt Sablan said...

I mean, false flags are only really needed when REAL flags aren't being thrown.

Big Mike said...

Last night we saw fascism in the streets of Minneapolis.

No, Althouse, it was not a false flag.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

How do I know this is real?

If it was 2 am, -20F, bleach and a noose along with those MAGA hats, maybe.

Fat-Bottomed Leftists
You make the riotin' world go 'round!
POLICE: "Get on your bikes n RIDE!!!

Jim Gust said...

Big Mike beat me to it, complete with the Powerline link. The hat burning was the least of it.

Ken B said...

Speaking of what’s real ... drudge had a red headline the Turkey attacked US troops. False. This is a huge thing to lie about.
NBC had a story Shep Smith was escorted from Fox by security. False. This is a petty thing to lie about.

Josephbleau said...

It is not a false flag op based on the principle that you do not attribute to malice that which is reasonably explained by stupidity.

Nichevo said...

False flag? How do I know this is real?


Take off your clothes, Ann.