Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló announced his resignation amid a scandal over sexist, homophobic and otherwise offensive text messages he and his inner circle exchanged. The leaked texts set off mass demonstrations and widespread calls for his departure....I want to see the text of the texts. I don't trust characterizations anymore. People will call almost anything Trump says "racist," so I need the direct quotes these days, and that's partly because I want it on record what truly offensive stuff is, for comparison purposes.
Protesters have flooded the streets since the July 13 publication of nearly 900 pages of profane messages on the messaging app Telegram showing Rosselló and his close aides insulting women, deriding gays and making fun of Maria victims. The scandal has come to be known as "Rickyleaks."...
There were no quotes at NPR, but here, I found some at Metro, "These are the Ricardo Rossello texts at the center of Puerto Rico's outrage":
In the texts, Rossello [calls] NYC Councilor Melissa Mark-Viverito... a "wh-re," and describes another female politician as "daughter of a b-tch." In one text thread about the management of Puerto Rico's financial crisis, Rossello wrote, "Dear oversight board, go f— yourself" followed by several of middle finger emojis....Big deal? In private texts? Obviously, if Trump had written such things, he would survive. He'd be trashed, but he would survive.
In one particularly unsettling exchange, Rossello made fun of the victims of Hurricane Maria, which devastated the island in 2017, killing more than 3,000 people. Sobrino Vega, the former chief financial officer, made a joke about the number of bodies in the aftermath of Maria. Rossello responded, "Now that we are on the subject, don't we have some cadavers to feed our crows?"...
"Nothing says patriarchal oppression like Ricky Martin," he wrote."Ricky Martin is such a male chauvinist that he f—s men because women don't measure up. Pure patriarchy."
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78 comments:
"I want to see the text of the texts. I don't trust characterizations anymore"
Reason No. 487 why Althouse is so damn good.
Trump is the President of the United States. This guy is the Governor of Puerto Rico. By way of comparison, there really is none. If Rossello were the Governor of Virginia would he survive? That's a more apt comparison perhaps?
"I don't care who you are, that there is funny."
I called a parade gay buddy about that RM joke and he was literally texting it to friends as we spoke. But he's a broad minded guy. (bada-boom!)
-XC
It's hard to say whether that was what did it. What is permissible of, say, a Law School Dean at a public university. Can the Dean write "I wish he would sit down and shut the fuck up" in official communications? What if it is being written about a student who is a gay activist? What if it is being written about a black student concerned with Black Lives Matter? What if it is being written about a white conservative veteran?
Incompetence and financial mismanagement, meh. A few offensive texts, and the crowds scream for his head. Well done, Puerto Rico.
I've read this guy is corrupt as Hell, and $millions in relief money is "missing". Frankly, if it doesn't affect policy, people should be able to say anything they wish in private. What does it matter that people make tasteless jokes - in private? It doesn't.
I wonder if this guy was a hypocrite who was calling Trump out.
One problem is some of the profanity and anti-gay stuff is in Spanish. so it doesn't translate well.
"Obviously, if Trump had written such things"
Of course, Trump actually wrote about historic PR mismanagement. For which he was criticized. You can't say that about s*hole islands!
Advantage: Trump.
Trump can survive, "we have cadavers to feed the crows"? I call BS. The other stuff, sure. But those cadavers were citizens. I don't think the survivors would appreciate seeing themselves as good for government crows.
The media focuses on those texts because the (largely Democrat) corruption surrounding his downfall doesn't fit their preferred narrative.
But in all the hoopla and offense people actually are forgetting to ask the important question of whether a crow will eat a Puerto Rican...
Bazinga!
They're still protesting like his resignation never happened.
Good luck getting Puerto Rico back under control.
To be honest, this guy sounds like he'd be a lot of fun to hang out with and drink a few Bacardi and cokes.
Well viverito is one, I think his only legal liability was when he inquired if someone would so something to mayor yulin cruz.
Linking Trump to this story is beyond the pale.
The kind of shit Lefties do.
Put it as another instance of the trump curse, he diverted relief funds to the gillun and Nelson campaigns,
How's your Spanish? PDF of chats.
I want to see the text of the texts. I don't trust characterizations anymore. People will call almost anything Trump says "racist," so I need the direct quotes these days, and that's partly because I want it on record what truly offensive stuff is, for comparison purposes.
Be careful, Althouse. Your house may be picketed soon.
On another topic, Glenn Reynolds site is being hit by mischief makers. Have you had any problems here?
I'm wondering if the media is coloring this with their own brush. The tweets may have sparked this, but that's not the entire story. If you hear the protesters, they mention the corruption and fiscal issues. Is that the primary reason for the protests?
Sexist and homophobic tweets are in the media's usual framework, so they latch on to it. Government corruption and incompetence are not the media's usual topics, and may even help Trump, so they will ignore it.
Darrell said...
Linking Trump to this story is beyond the pale.
The kind of shit Lefties do.
7/25/19, 11:41 AM
LIKE ALWAYS!!
"Trump can survive, "we have cadavers to feed the crows"? I call BS. The other stuff, sure. But those cadavers were citizens. I don't think the survivors would appreciate seeing themselves as good for government crows."
I'd like to know the larger context. It seems like dark humor.
If the larger context is that he's been insensitive and callous about the deaths, then the text is evidence that he really is heartless.
Stealing millions in relief funds would be OK if only you keep your texts PC?
You would think, words do hurt, also they had settled on orange mad bad as a rationale.
The Ricky Martin text is funny. That said, the couple Puerto Ricans I know despise him for being utterly corrupt. But of course that’s not unique to Rosselló
I heard yesterday it was his corruption and not the texts that had people wanting him gone.
It just can't be widely reported that way because for 2 years we've been hating on Trump for saying Puerto Rico is terribly run. He was being racist and uncaring.
The phrase: "feed our crows", may refer to competitors or activists scavenging for data points to force his removal or resignation. In less twilight tones, it would be referred to as a witch hunt.
A transversal orientation is the epitome of male or female chauvinism, where one sex has exclusive preference. Another observation of the inconsistency that permeates contemporary social advocacy and activism.
I want to see the text of the texts. I don't trust characterizations anymore.
You can't even go by what is put in quotes, which is typically truncated and taken out of context to make them as damning as possible.
The NYT has become like one of those ransom notes made by cutting words out of different magazines and pasting them together to send a message.
Trump said: "black" "people" "are" "the" "worst" "and" "should" "go" "back" "to" "Africa".
As far as our media goes, as long as he uttered each of those words at some point in his existence, it's not really wrong to show the people what he really meant.
It's dog whistle journalism.
saying Puerto Rico is terribly run
A veritable shitshow or shithole.
I think the larger context is handling of relief funds.
Ugh, phone auto-correct "good" should be "food", but doubt citizens want to be goods for crows either.
"Trump can survive, "we have cadavers to feed the crows"? I call BS.
You think that's worse than shooting someone dead on Fifth Avenue?
There's that "3,000 dead" canard again, which is a statistical fabrication of "excess deaths in the aftermath". The actual number is 64.
I'm to young to remember directly but I'm sure I've read that Nixon's big fear about his Oval Office tapes getting out was that people would hear the foul language and crude things he and his associates said, not that they'd spill some big secrets.
The bigger problem for the Puerto Rico officials is the ongoing corruption investigations...which seem to have uncovered some pretty clear criminal activity.
Linking Trump to this story is beyond the pale.
Establishing a close association is in the NYT reporting style guide.
Education funds, most recently the housing secretary had been indicted months ago.
Anyway the reports are that some of the jokes/insults are at the expense of groups nice centrist people care about, like homosexuals, and we all understand THAT kind of ugliness can never be tolerated--no context can excuse being insufficiently reverent nor deferential towards special groups or people. It is known.
"I want to see the text of the texts. I don't trust characterizations anymore"
The meaning of racism changes so fast these days it's impossible for people to keep up.
Luckily, we have the media to evaluate people's statements for us and let us know who's racist and who's safely inside the shifting line.
The worst thing of all is for someone to read the text and think, "Hey, that's not racist!" because they're unaware of shifting mores.
In doing so, they inadvertently out themselves as racists.
it's a rule.
You can look it up.
Linking Trump to this story is beyond the pale.
Are you kidding?
They're already getting confidential sources, unauthorized to speak to the media at this time, to say Trump's fingerprints were found on Jeffrey Epstein's neck.
I would bet the press is reporting about the texts because they don't want to report honestly about the motivations of the protesters.
The MSM are liars.
That's the default answer.
"Big deal? In private texts?"
I don't really know much about Twitter. I follow a couple of people and read their tweets occasionally. I read other tweets that Twitter sends to my email address. I don't tweet myself.
But one thing that is emphasized about email, especially company email, is that you never put anything into an email you don't want the world to see. Email is never really private. I suspect Twitter works the same way.
Snail mail and "documents" work the same way, too. Be careful what you write.
@Althouse, I think you are seeing some misdirection in the MSM, and falling for it. The problem for Rossello isn’t the dark humor nor sexist remarks about female politicians nor homophobic remarks about political opponents. The chat sessions proved that the painful, and painfully slow, recovery from Hurricane Maria was due to deliberate actions on the part of Rossello and his cronies. They wanted to use their citizens’ pain as a cudgel to beat up Trump. Now they’ve been themselves destroyed.
It's Franken all over again. How can the US Democratic Party Media lapdogs push Trump from office if the Gov of Puerto Rico doesn't leave.
I admit that doesn't quite explain how the Gov of Virginia stuck around (except for the fact that maybe the Lt Gov was worse).
The only text that mattered - about hurricane victims - is the one ranked lowest on the media's Grievance Scale. Gay celebrities and powerful NYC politicians rank higher than dead hurricane victims.
It wasn't just the texts. It was also the graft and corruption which was mind-boggling. But journos go with what's easiest.
The Spanih aristocrats hate the peasants? What's new?
Trump loves his Deplorables. That is the difference.,
Twenty six years ago, an acquaintance told rosello sr of how fragile the electrical grid was, nothing was done, except funds diverted for other purposes, and the outsourcing that began in 06 from the previous tax bill made things worse
This could be a Media Deep State dry run for riots in the USA. Soros wants something for the hundreds of millions spent on his Community Organizers. And the last days are here for his gang.
> Obviously, if Trump had written such things, he would survive. He'd be trashed, but he would survive.
I have my doubts. Trump has a sense of humor, Rossello doesn't sound the least bit funny.
I admit that doesn't quite explain how the Gov of Virginia stuck around (except for the fact that maybe the Lt Gov was worse).
The governor had a Blackface problem and at the same time the Lt. governor had a #metoo problem. They both survived because #3 in line was a Republican.
Good luck getting Puerto Rico back under control.
7/25/19, 11:37 AM
Send in Sandy Cortez.
The average IQ is 84 in Puerto Rico so you don't expect great locker room talk.
Calling it truly offensive is racism.
>>Trump's fingerprints were found on Jeffrey Epstein's neck.
Much more likely to be Bill Clinton's.
"Where batch", so to speak.
"our crows"
That's confusing - is he referring to pet crows? Because meticulous research led to these Fun Facts!
The Puerto Rican crow is extinct.
The white-necked crow was killed to death in PR.
The texts are available and I can get a link to anyone that wants them. But:
They are in Spanish
They are not formatted as text but as graphic(?) meaning that you can't search, can't cut and paste excerpts, can't follow links and so on. I looked at them but they were pretty frustrating to try to read.
OTOH, a couple of things that are particularly outrageous:
A TOTAL disrespect for the people of PR calling voters of his own and opposition parties stupid.
Discussion of how to troll and astroturf to get good public opinion.
Discussion of various scams
Calling Ricky Martin a "Faggot" and other slurs (Ricky Martin!!! Formerly of Menudo!!! That is the last straw!!!)
The sense from the discussions that the govt was not being run by cabinet officers and other elected, appointed or hired govt officials/employees but by Ricky and his cronies.
Discussion of looting Puerto Rico blind
Perhaps the most outrageous is that one of the cronies says, complaining about something that Yulin, the Mayor of San Juan and leader of the opposing (Commonwealth) part) did says he would like to "Shoot that bitch" (Loosely translated. it may be worse in Spanish)
To which the governor replies "You'd be doing me a big favor" Joking? Probably in both cases. But for the governor to condone murder of a political opponent is totally inexcusable. He should be gone for that alone if nothing else.
Anyone remember Thomas A'Becket and King wassisname? "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest." And some knights thought he really meant it and murdered Becket in the cathedral.
I am no fan of Yulin, she caused us to be 8-10 weeks longer without electricity in 2017. In general she makes AOC and her squad look sane. I would love to see her gone but murder? You can't even joke about that.
Plenty of other stuff in a similar vein though I think that is the only discussion of murder.
El Nueva Dia www.endi.com is the main Spanish Language newspaper and in their website they have an English edition (Look in the menu on your phone/tablet or across the top link bar in a browser.) Probably more detail than most US sources.
If you have not seen it, watch the interview with Shephard Smith on FoxNews https://video.foxnews.com/v/6062781428001/#sp=show-clips
17 minutes and absolutely brutal. I have no idea what Ricky was thinking going on there. He had not talked to the local press or media all week, then he goes on Fox which the biggest cable company doesn't even carry locally and does an interview in English. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Total disrespect to his supporters and opponents alike. It's not like we don't have internet. It's not like we don't speak English.
It's like he was kicking us in the teeth.
Fuck Ricky. Fuck the PNP. Fuck the PDP Fuck all our politicians. (PNP-New Progressive Party basically statehood. PDP-Popular Democratic Party, basically commonwealth.)
PS- When looking for the link to Fox, I see a headline that the feds? Local cops? Are executing a search warrant on the governor's mansion just now.
John Henry
I'm confused on P.R. politics.
I thought he was a different party than the usual incompetents that have been running P.R. for a while? And he was seen as more of a reformer.
It's so hard to tell with scandals was this just an excuse by the P.R. Deepstate to get rid of a troublesome person, like was attempted to be done with Trump, was he a sacrificial goat, or somebody that really needed to be gotten rid of?
Thanks John Henry - That helps a lot!
"Ricky" is a diminutive of Ricardo. In most cases it is a term of respect. In his case, since he first started running in 15 it has been a term of disrespect. It reflects that the only reason he ran was because his father was a former governor and his run is nepotism. And, his opponents say, a chance to get his father's gang of people (I hesitate as to what to call them so will stick with "people") back in th egovernment either officially or unofficially.
"Ricky" Martin - A nickname of affection.
"Ricky" Rosello - A nickname of disrespect. Sort of like calling GW Bush "Junior"
Fuck you, Ricky. If for nothing else, making me sit in the dark for 8-10 extra weeks.
I was really hoping Cifre would win but that was a lost hope. I first met him in the 80s when he was running a small bakery out of a garage. Now he makes a large portion of all the Pan de Agua and Pan Sobao sold on the island and in the US. A very sharp cookie but running as 4th party, he had no chance at all.
John Henry
I knew Ricky Martin back in the day. In the 80s, I probably put 20,000 miles on my car schlepping my daughter and her pals to Menudo concerts all over the island.
There are still Menudo posters in her bedroom though she has not lived with us for almost 30 years.
My son's daughter, now 15 and my daughter's daughter, 3.5 are both infected with Menudomania.
John Henry
Browndog,
His resignation has not actually happened yet. He is still in office until August 2.
One of the problems that has people still riled up is who will replace him. Since he fired the Secretary of State, normally #2 in succession, #3 is the Attorney general and she is not viewed with great respect. She also has no executive experience.
So, they need to appoint a new SOS pronto and that is going to be a big bone of contention.
And if they don't before 8/2, she gets in and really has no qualifications.
PDJT seems to have things runnign pretty smoothly in the upper 50, can we borrow him for a bit?
BTW: Many bit perhaps not all, here know that I have lived in Puerto Rico since 1971. My wife is native born, kids and grandkids born here. I identify as Puerto Rican.
John Henry
"What did Ricardo A. Rosselló have in his texts that was so bad he had to step down as Governor of Puerto Rico?"
Name that party.
Blogger Jeff Weimer said...
There's that "3,000 dead" canard again, which is a statistical fabrication of "excess deaths in the aftermath". The actual number is 64.
Thank you Jeff. The 3000# is absolute bullshit. If you fell off your roof while fixing your satellite dish in January, you were counted as a hurricane death.
There was a HELL of a lot of destruction from the hurricane but the real problem was the electrical system. 50 years of corruption in the Govt owned power authority (PREPA) has left it completely unmaintained. A cat 1 might have caused almost as much damage. Read about the Palo Seco plant one of our main electric plants. Whole areas of it are off limits because they could fall down at any moment. This was BEFORE the hurricane.
http://darkislandpr.blogspot.com/2017/12/palo-seco-generator-report-colegio-de.html
I'll stop, you really don't want to get me started on PREPA. I've been battling them for more than 40 years. (Even beat them, eventually, in the Alcon case. Changing the face of utility regulation in the US) More info on that and other stuff at the Darkislandpr.blogspot.com
John Henry
thanks john henry, for the primer,
Blogger narciso said...
Twenty six years ago, an acquaintance told rosello sr of how fragile the electrical grid was, nothing was done, except funds diverted for other purposes, and the outsourcing that began in 06 from the previous tax bill made things worse
One of the delays in restoring power was because the rights of way to the main transmission lines had not been cleared in 20-30 years. That meant that before teams could get to them, they had to being in bulldozers to clear them.
It's the tropics, trees are fully grown in 20 years.
And not to belabor the point, but see the report on Palo Seco.
John Henry
Blogger Ray - SoCal said...
I'm confused on P.R. politics.
Don't feel bad Ray, I've lived here almost 50 years and I am plenty confused.
Essentially we have 3 parties:
Popular Democratic Party (PDP)
New Progressive Party (PNP)
Puerto Rico Independence party (PIP
Puerto Rico Socialist Party (PSP)
A few others that make noise but almost never elect anyone.
The PDP supports commonwealth, current status
The PNP supports statehood but never does anything about it. I joke that we are more likely to become a state under the PDP than the PNP
The PIP supports independence and democratic socialism. I disagree with their politics but they seem like the only relatively honest party around. I vot for Ruben Berrios when I get a chance.
The PSP supports RIOTS!!! REVOLUTION!!! Thinks Castro is too conservative. Buncha nutballs.
Other than lip service about statehood/commonwealth, there is no difference at all between the PNP and the PDP. PDP is aligned with the National Democrat party. A portion of the PNP is aligned with the national Republican party but mostly with the democrats. Rosello, son and father, are deep in the democrat goo and closely tied to Hilary and that craziness.
That is probably as good an explanation of PR politics as you will ever get.
John Henry
@John Henry, welcome! I had been hoping to hear from you about Rossello's problems. Do you agree with the report I read that Rossello had evidence in the texts that he and his cronies were deliberately slowing the pace of recovery so they could make Trump look bad? I'd like a fact check from someone knowledgeable.
@Gahrie, you are almost right. The governor and the #3, the Attorney General, have blackface problems. It's #4 who is a Republican, thanks to a lucky coin toss.
Blatant fake news. People are angry about the corruption in Puerto Rico and want a change. But the media doesn't want to report that, maybe because it threatens the political establishment and career politicians? Call it The Trump Effect. I'm predicting something similar will be happening in Italy.
Blogger Big Mike said...
@John Henry, welcome! I had been hoping to hear from you about Rossello's problems. Do you agree with the report I read that Rossello had evidence in the texts that he and his cronies were deliberately slowing the pace of recovery so they could make Trump look bad? I'd like a fact check from someone knowledgeable.
The texts are clear that they deliberately slowed the pace of recovery. For example, firing Whitefish (who later turned out to be blameless) and other things. Leaving hundreds of portable generators ranging in size from 50- 3,000 KW on pier 4 with no security whatever. Not distributing food and water. Lots of other stuff. Part of this was incompetence, part corruption and part politics. It is hard to tease out what is what. All I can say for certain is that we suffered unnecessarily.
I've not read all 800 pages. I skimmed perhaps 50-100 pages before I got tired of the poor resolution and not being able to search them.
John Henry
You guys just don't get Latinx Heat.
The author must think that any story now will only be interesting if linked to Trump. There will not be enough comments if Trump not woven into it.
yes, terrible formatting, you would think the paper would make them accessible, wouldn't you, unless that isn't the point of the exercise,
I love how the story is portrayed as "a scandal over sexist, homophobic and otherwise offensive text messages."
To skim through English-language outlets, like CNN, the Guardian, the NYT, BBC, NPR, and other sources, you'd be forgiven for thinking the scandal was primarily driven by sexist and anti-homosexual remarks, with a few "otherwise offensive" remarks almost as afterthoughts.
My Spanish is a little rusty, but as far as I can tell, the local Spanish language press has it almost exactly the opposite way; the primary focus is on the "otherwise offensive" remarks, i.e. the ones ridiculing the hurricane victims and the general public, with much less attention being paid to the sexist/anti-homosexual messages. The Spanish-language press also pays more attention to the general corruption allegations than does the English-language press.
They are not formatted as text but as graphic(?) meaning that you can't search, can't cut and paste excerpts, can't follow links and so on. I looked at them but they were pretty frustrating to try to read.
The pdf that I linked to (11:45am) https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6192552/Chat.pdf is searchable. The links aren't clickable, but you can highlight some of them and right click to open in a new tab.
Whether or not Trump would survive a daylight murder depends on the side one has chosen. I have chosen sides.
You think that's worse than shooting someone dead on Fifth Avenue?
Look up the word "could", then look up the word "have".
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After voting Puerto Rico $93B, Democrats went down there January last with empty suitcases.
It's nothing, I'm sure.
So now they discovered their new icon Wanda Vasquez well 'down with the new boss, same as the old one'
This explain PR politics a bit more to me:
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/07/good_riddance_clintonman_governor_of_puerto_rico_is_finally_booted.html
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