May 17, 2019



Henry said...

Funny they chose Romania and not Ireland.

mockturtle said...

My best friend and her husband adopted two of them. Unfortunately, they had some major issues.

alanc709 said...

This is the kind of logic that makes you wonder if we really are evolved from apes. Didn't the eugenics movement die off years ago?

Henry said...

But this is a typical political argument, of the healthcare subsidies lead to gulags variety. Everybody is unserious these days.

GatorNavy said...

Gosh, if there was only some organization with billions of members that did take in and raise these orphans as there own. And was acceptable to the totalitarian leftists and their propaganda outlets.

Kevin said...

It seems unserious needs its own tag these days.

Kevin said...

Is the opposite of unserious, “you cannot be serious”?

Being deadly serious about an absurdity?

That could be the counter-tag.

Hippogryph said...

The premise is a little bizarre, indeed.

As an inverse example, China under the one child policy (with mandated abortions) would have been oppressive and dystopian even without that policy.

Michael K said...

"Foreign Policy" has been the left wing version of "Foreign Affairs," which is left wing enough,

Kevin said...

The first law of donkeydynamics, also known as Law of Conservation of Absurdism, states that outrage can neither be created nor destroyed; outrage can only be transferred or changed from one target to another.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

In 1966, the leader of Romania, Nicolae Ceausescu, outlawed access to abortion and contraception in a bid to boost the country’s population. In the short term, it worked, and the year after it was enacted the average number of children born to Romanian women jumped from 1.9 to 3.7.

Romanian women averaged 1.8 babies per woman in a year? That seems unlikely.

n.n said...

When elective abortion is banned, life happens, human rights are advanced, humanity matures. Transgenders are born. Down Syndrome children are unplanned. Girls are not selected in favor of boys and vice versa. Abortion chambers lie fallow. Walls are torn down. Medical progress is temporarily delayed with a dearth of recycled children. Rights and responsibilities are affirmed. A dystopian progression is mitigated.

wholelottasplainin' said...

Men who were shot dead getting off the landing ships at Normandy could not be reached for comment about their "right to control their own bodies".

John henry said...

Romania even banned tampons under Cecesceau.

John Henry

Lewis Wetzel said...

Ceaucescu did not ban abortion because he respected life. He banned abortion to further a state purpose, which was to prevent population decline. I have never heard any anti-abortion person claim that abortion should be illegal because the US needs to fight population decline.
The best way to think of Ceausescu's abortion ban is that it resembles the US abortion regime in that it bypassed the democratic process.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

Henry: Funny they chose Romania and not Ireland.

I clicked over to see if the article was as "unserious" as the teaser. It was.

What happens when a country bans abortion? The historical sample set is rather larger than one 20th-century communist dystopia. It's almost as if the author thinks that legal abortion is the default in human societies.

One commenter chided the author for the ignorant comparison of contemporary Alabama to Ceausescu's Romania, and ended with "Amy must have been going through history books on bad non-abortion places and seized on this. Too much book work Amy, try living outside your computer." To the contrary, I'd say Amy's problem is *not enough* book work.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gahrie said...

Funny they chose Romania

I'll bet dollars to donuts that the author of this piece did not write a similar one about China when they took the choice away from women.

n.n said...

China when they took the choice away from women

Under selective-child (and recycled-child), America, too, once the child reaches the age or state of "viability".

n.n said...

Romania even banned tampons under Cecesceau.

Well, that was uncalled for. Keep it weird, I suppose.

On the other hand, manufacturers many have known and did not properly disclose, that tampons were a probable cause of sexual dysfunction, or perhaps were contaminated (e.g. batch or lot) and could be carcinogenic when improperly worn. Ceaucescu may have acted as an advocate for the health of Romanian women, and men.

Leland said...

Abortion is illegal in Venezuela, but also like Romania under Ceausescu, I think there are other economic policies at play creating a dystopian horror. Actually, I think they are the same economic policies written about in books known as dystopian horror stories.

doctrev said...

Why Romania? Why not Poland? Because they are increasingly successful and free of liberal influences. It is the Pinochet of European states, and the only reason Germany hasn't cracked down on Poland is the obvious one.

If this is the best liberals can do, they are in very serious trouble.

Static Ping said...

So when do we get the Hitler was a vegetarian article?

I cling to my opinion that most journalists are not experts in any field, including journalism. I still do not know why we tolerate getting our news from morons.

Temujin said...

Frankly- I don't know what to categorize as 'serious' anymore. Killing babies by the millions and selling their parts is considered not serious by our Thinkers. Taking a video to point out that this is actually going on- that's serious. Extorting money from every citizen to send to Planned Parenthood to pay for these abortion mills and, with what's left over, pay for Democratic politicos who in turn, make sure the money stays flowing to Planned Parenthood, is considered unserious. Questioning that is considered extreme and very serious. Kermit Gosnell's trial was apparently not serious, as not one journalist showed up for it. Of the people he killed- both mothers and their aborted or born alive children- they would probably disagree if they had the chance to talk with Alyssa Milano.

The President loves to tweet. I don't know if I should think that's serious or unserious. The Dems are still trying to create a coup to remove the President while our borders are overrun with 100,000 illegal immigrants every fkng day. Who should I take seriously? Dems or the guy who loves to Tweet about the border?

AOC tells me we have only 12 years to live. Joe Biden tells me that the Chinese are no threat economically or any other way. He says, 'C'mon, man!' so often I mix him up with Michael Irvin. Are AOC and Joe Biden to be considered serious people?

What's a man to think these days?

Narr said...

Pro-natalist policies were a staple in European countries after WWI. Fascists both black and red gave bonuses and medals to the fecund of favored groups. I think even the French resorted to it.

Caught a glimpse of Julian Castro (D) arguing for open borders now, because "in twenty years we'll be begging people to immigrate here!" I thought, "Really?" and "Why?" We're not begging them now.

Mysteries within mysteries

Humperdink said...

Hitler was not a vegetarian, but he was at the forefront of climate change. I read it somewhere on the internet. Something about reducing the earth's population.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

serious + stupid =/= "unserious"

it = "seriously stupid"

eric said...

Here's the thing.

Ceaucescu didn't ban abortion. Y'all got it wrong.

He proposed and implemented common sense abortion control.

mockturtle said...

Hitler was a vegetarian. Not sure if he was vegan.

The Godfather said...

I grew up in a country that banned abortion. Hellish! Funny, though, the people favored the ban. It was the Philosopher Kings who gave us the right to kill our children before they were born. The "after" part is now under discussion.

For extra credit: Name the country.

Howard said...

Nice pro-life safe space. Please exit through the althole Amazon slush fun.

n.n said...

I grew up in a country that banned abortion.

In this nation, under the established quasi-religion, elective abortion is banned after the baby reaches the age or state of "viability", at which point the mother no longer has a legal choice to abort with puerile motives, and which is approximately 5 months, almost two trimesters, following the presumptive origin of consciousness (i.e. brain). However, the resident sects are working feverishly to extend the act to be more inclusive. Here's to progress and aspiration on a liberal scale.

narciso said...

in other news,

Wince said...

Maybe Amy Mackinnon can explain to them why we'd all be better off if they were dead.

Crib mates in a Romanian orphanage, today they're college roommates

University of Wisconsin-Whitewater freshmen reunited after years apart

Today, Elena Heimark and Rachel Murphy are roommates at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Taking their first steps into adulthood side-by-side as college freshmen is as natural to them as taking their first steps together as toddlers, even though they didn't see each other for years in between while they were busy growing up.

They were 2 years old when their parents traveled halfway around the world to adopt them and bring them home to Wisconsin — Elena to West Bend and Rachel to South Milwaukee.

There's a picture of the girls sitting on the steps of the orphanage the day they left. Each is wearing brand new sneakers and adorable outfits their parents picked out for them when they were still imagining what it would be like to be their parents.

Once in Wisconsin, their moms arranged occasional play dates to keep the girls connected. There's a picture of them giggling and spinning together in a tire swing. Elena, who is one month and two days older, is a whole head taller than Rachel. You can see their bond. But nothing foretells just how much alike they will be as 18-year-olds.

Trumpit said...

Would you eat roast fetus, or stillborn? Hell yes, if you were hungry enough. Reminds me of the Uruguayan plane crash in the Andes in 1972. The survivors ate their dead co-passengers when it became necessary to survive. Making pet food out of aborted fetuses seem like a good idea to me. Why should they go to waste?

stephen cooper said...

EDH - thanks for the link.

Trumpit - Frank Zappa used to deal in that kind of humor.
It wasn't really funny then, back in the sarcastic 70s and the ironic 80s - the poor guy, despite his obvious talents, was obviously working out issues, issues of his own cold-heartedness, primarily, but also issues involving deep, deep at the level of the human soul, deep envy of people who had experienced warmth and love, in a real, non-ironic way, as he probably never had. Sad! And yes I feel sad for him that he acted out the way he did with his, at the end, very unfunny and cold-hearted humor.

He just needed a better start in life.

Don't be like Frank Zappa in that way. Try and imagine yourself as a kind, empathetic, brave, and virtuous person.

Thanks for reading.

rcocean said...

Erick Erickson is himself an "unserious" clown. He claims to be against Abortion, but did everything he could to help Hillary win in 2016. Only be electing Trump did we preserve a Conservative dominated SCOTUS and have ANY chance of overturning Roe vs. Wade.

The election of Hillary and Kagan led Court would've meant Roe v. Wade standing for the next 12 years.

rcocean said...

And Romania was a Communist Tyranny. Of course, it was a hell hole. I bet Erickson is such a cuck, he didn't say that and be labeled "anti-communist".

narciso said...

Yes hes a eggo egoist

Molly said...

Lewis Wetzel: thank you for that insightful comment. And Hippogryph has the appropriate counter example.

stephen cooper said...

Lewis Wentzel said: "I have never heard ... abortion should be illegal ... to fight population decline".

Look, Mr Wentzel, I understand what you are trying to say, but I respectfully say you are wrong, and I say this:

actually , lots of African Americans , and lots of non-african American people who, because they are not racist, do not want African Americans to be the primary targets of abortion, think abortion should be illegal because the regime of Planned Parenthood clinics, predominantly in black neighborhoods, was designed from the very beginning to keep the African American population in decline, or at least to cut down African American fertility. Margaret Sanger hated black people, the poor sad woman with hatred in her heart! Look it up.

Abortion is a war against black people, and it has been successful. If Roe v Wade had been decided in favor of Wade, instead of poor Roe, there would be about 30 million more black people alive today, in 2019: and I guarantee you that most of the racists who supported that evil decision (including the Southern Baptist Seminary, for the record) knew exactly what they were doing.

Roe v Wade was not Plessy v Ferguson or Dred v Scott redux, it was much worse than that.

The most racist moment in 20th century American history.

stephen cooper said...

Roe spent the rest of her life repenting of her association with the evil of "Roe v Wade".

And yes I know what I am saying when I use the word evil.

stephen cooper said...

Look at the ratio of African American children who are aborted compared to white children who were aborted, in the years before and after the evil decision in Roe v Wade.

EVERY SINGLE one of those mediocre men who signed off on Roe v Wade will go down in history as nasty racists.

Unknown said...


Unknown said...

Open Borders won't cause any of these horrors

Only having new citizens of our own will

Drago said...

rcocean: "Erick Erickson is himself an "unserious" clown. He claims to be against Abortion, but did everything he could to help Hillary win in 2016. Only be electing Trump did we preserve a Conservative
dominated SCOTUS and have ANY chance of overturning Roe vs. Wade."
Quite so.

I have noticed of late some of the moronic NeverTrumpers attempting ever so subtly to move back into the actual conservative camp, as if any of us is ever going to forget where these slimes were in 2016.

And make no mistake, they will be right back at the Lefty/Dem/LLR-lefty trough again in 2020.

Without exception.

Saint Croix said...

Making pet food out of aborted fetuses seem like a good idea to me. Why should they go to waste?

Speaking of "unserious," I hope Trumpit is actually a Republican trying to create the most offensive, Nazi persona possible in order to make pro-choice people seem like monsters.

Hate to think he's actually honest, and has no idea why feeding an aborted infant to animals is appalling.

I would like to believe that pro-choice people are nice people, with moral blind spots. But i guess some of them would fall more on the sociopath side of the spectrum.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Trumpit, why didn't you ask the medical staff to carve up your mom into serving size bits so you could take her home and eat her after she died? Why let her go to waste like that?

Really, I think we should apply everything you say about babies to your mother (who, unfortunately, did not share your hatred of babies since she made the mistake of birthing you._

stephen cooper said...

well I for one am happy Trumpit is here.

First off, of course he is a pro-Trump performance artist, ironically showing us anti-Trump hatred at its worst.
Second, God loves us all. It is easy to pray for nice people, and easy to pray for losers.

The funny thing is, it is easy to pray for the good and the bad, equally.

The good have been blessed to know other good people.

The bad have been blessed to know bad people, and for that reason when we pray for them we pray for the least in this world.

I hope that makes sense.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"My best friend and her husband adopted two of them. Unfortunately, they had some major issues."

The worst bad luck is when nobody thinks your/you're unlucky because you're rich enough to indulge in foolishness.

Just so, so unlucky.

Saint Croix said...

The funny thing is, it is easy to pray for the good and the bad, equally.

The good have been blessed to know other good people.

The bad have been blessed to know bad people, and for that reason when we pray for them we pray for the least in this world.

I hope that makes sense.

Yeah it does. My post was mean-spirited. Can't bring myself to apologize, though.

PhilD said...

Romania and 'anti-abortion;
"To counter this sharp decline of the population, the Communist Party decided that the Romanian population should be increased from 23 to 30 million inhabitants. In October 1966
Decree 770 was authorized by Ceaușescu. Abortion and contraception were declared illegal, except for:
- women over 45 (later lowered to 40)
- women who had already borne four children (later raised to five)
- women whose life would be threatened by carrying to term, due to medical complications
- women who were pregnant through rape and/or incest

"To enforce the decree, society was strictly controlled. Contraceptives disappeared from the shelves and all women were forced to be monitored monthly by a gynecologist. Any detected pregnancies were followed until birth. Secret police kept close eyes on operations in hospitals"

Also, women who had the "right" number of children got extra/full rights.

It wasn't a question of anti-abortion, it was women being treated as breeding cows (and males as studs I suppose). It has nothing to do with being pro-life ("made in the image of God"), being moral and being responsible for your actions but everything to do with seeing and treating humans as cattle (and of course under atheism we are at best but glorified animals). Just like China but with a different target in mind.

Darkisland said...


Re my comment on tampons. I was posting from my phone and it is hard to type long comments. I really did have a point beyond wierdness, though I did not make it there.

In the 80s I had a client who was from Ecuador. He and his wife had gone to engineering school in Romania on a Cuban scholarship and then wound up in Puerto Rico which is where I knew him.

At lunch one day he was telling me what a bizarre country Romania was. He had several examples but the one that stuck in my mind was about how he and his wife had gone somewhere on a vacation (Sweden, perhaps?) and brought back some gifts for a Romanian couple who were close friends.

He brought back condoms for the man and she brought back tampons for the woman. He told me that a day or two later the man complained to him, and the woman, separately, to his wife, that the "birth control devices" were appreciated but the sex was very uncomfortable.

Condoms and tampons were both illegal and pretty well unknown in Romania at the time. They had used both together.

It sounds pretty bizarre. But, remember how isolated things were in any rural area, even in the US in the 70s. Then think about a completely closed society like Romania where the common citizen has no access whatever to outside radio, TV, magazines, telephones and so on. Or even Romanian media that didn't print exactly what the govt told it to.

Even if they had, they would not have been able to understand them, not being in Romanian.

I can fully understand how a Romanian woman in the late 70s might not have know what a tampon was for.

It is only because birth control was illegal in Romania that I know tampons were illegal. I really don't know why but I do know that in some cultures, Romania?, tampons are frowned upon. I think Muslims, in general, discourage their use.

There are certainly medical risks to tampons. Toxic shock being the best known but not the only one. Perhaps that is why they were banned, I don't know. Perhaps tampons should be banned in the US on medical grounds. (Just kidding, ladies!) but "her body her choice and all that".

Funny how we never hear "his body, his choice" isn't it?

Darkisland said...

Maybe we should all be more European in our laws about abortion:

Abortion in France is legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception (14 weeks after the last menstrual period).[1] Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable.

Abortion in Germany is illegal according to §218, and is punished with up to three years in prison or a punitive fine.[1] However, it is de facto permitted in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and is also permitted later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity. In both cases, a waiting period of three days is required. The counseling, called Schwangerschaftskonfliktberatung ("pregnancy-conflict counseling"), must take place at a state-approved centre, which afterwards gives the applicant a Beratungsschein ("certificate of counseling").


Abortion in Italy became legal in May 1978, when Italian women were allowed to terminate a pregnancy on request during the first 90 days. A proposal to repeal the law was considered in a 1981 national referendum, but was rejected by nearly 68% of voters; another referendum aimed at eliminating the restrictions was rejected by 88.4%.[1]

Italian women are eligible to request an abortion for health, economic or social reasons, including the circumstances under which conception occurred. Abortions are performed free-of-charge in public hospitals or in private structures authorized by the regional health authorities. The law also allows termination in the second trimester of the pregnancy only when the life of the woman would be at risk if the pregnancy is carried to term or the fetus carries genetic or other serious malformations which would put the mother at risk of serious psychological or physical consequences.

The law states that, unless a state of emergency requires immediate intervention, a period of seven days, not compulsory, has to occur between the medical authorization and the effective date of the termination. Although the law only permits pregnancy termination to women at least eighteen years old, it also includes provisions for women younger than eighteen, who can request the intervention of a judge when the legal tutor refuses the intervention, or there are reasons to exclude the legal tutor from the process. The judge has to make a decision within five days of the request. Women younger than eighteen don't need parental consent in case of urgent situation or after 90 days.[2]


Abortion in Spain is legal with some restrictions. Abortion during the first trimester is legal upon request. However, abortion during the second trimester is legal only for serious risk to the health of the woman or fetal defects.


Abortion in Sweden... As such, a new law was created in 1974, stating that the choice of an abortion is entirely up to the woman until the end of the eighteenth week. [3]


In Great Britain, abortion is generally allowed for socioeconomic reasons during the first twenty-four weeks of the pregnancy (the highest such limit in the EU, together with the Netherlands), and beyond for medical reasons.[1] [emph added-JRH]


Most European women can't get an abortion past the first trimeste without some serious medical necessity. Mental health of the mother doesn't seem to figure into serious medical necessity.

Seems about right to me. This might be one thing I think we should emulate Europe on. (Not much else, though)

John Henry

Darkisland said...

Blogger mockturtle said...

My best friend and her husband adopted two of them. Unfortunately, they had some major issues.

I've read some real horror stories. The daughter of a friend of mine adopted a Romanian baby in the 90s. She did not have the horror stories, though at that time the kid was still only 2-3 years old. I don't know what happened later.

Her kid did have some developmental problems. She actually went to Romania to adopt and told me that, based on what she saw in the orphanage, she would be amazed if they didn't. Kids to 1-2 years old were basically kept in cribs 24 hours a day. No toys, no attention, diapers seldom changed, bathed occasionally, fed when the attendants felt like it, little medical attention. Conditions that would get people vilified and jailed in the US were normal there. It was heartbreaking.

John Henry

n.n said...

Most European women can't get an abortion past the first trimeste without some serious medical necessity.

Significantly closer to a scientifically, ethically, and morally sound resolution than their Chinese and American counterparts. Baby steps.

n.n said...

Funny how we never hear "his body, his choice" isn't it?

Despite opinions to the contrary, it's a matriarchal society. The men know it. The women know it. It's women and children first.

n.n said...

It wasn't a question of anti-abortion, it was women being treated as breeding cows (and males as studs I suppose)

It was a matter of evolutionary fitness. Also, men were tasked with the duty of defense and provider, and women were tasked with the duty of sustaining a viable and productive (e.g. socialization, education) civilization. Something similar happens in every other nation and community, but perhaps less explicit. The number of children conceived before a conflict is evidence of a well understood, even welcome, common cause.

Saint Croix said...

First off, of course he is a pro-Trump performance artist, ironically showing us anti-Trump hatred at its worst.

If it was an attempt at dark humor, it might have worked better on the earlier thread. That was the one where entirely serious people were comparing an unborn child to a parasite, an intruder, and a tumor. If you had thrown a "don't forget dog food" on that thread, it might have shamed some people. I don't know.

Out of the blue on this thread, I just had a bad reaction to it.

I've heard of Frank Zappa of course, but never listened to him or his humor. It kind of reminds me of Andrew "Dice" Clay. He created a whole phony persona, too. The basic problem with that is that you have one joke, and it gets old really fast. And your meta joke overwhelms whatever joke joke you're trying to pull off.

Saint Croix said...

I wonder if comparing an unborn baby to a tumor is a kind of psychological defense mechanism. You're trying to reject the thought that you killed your own baby. So you re-imagine what you did.

"I got rid of a cancer. I'm so happy now."

"I'm glad that parasite is gone. I feel good."

I don't think self-deceit is helpful, actually, but I'm not a psychiatrist. Seems like their would be some cognitive dissonance when you start having kids.

"This is Jane, she's six and just starting first grade. And Bobby is two and I can already tell he's going to be a musician for a rock band. And we had another one but that was actually a tumor in my uterus and the doctor had to remove it."

From a Christian perspective, you admit to your sins. You don't hide them. You don't lie about them. You acknowledge them and ask the Lord for forgiveness. Redemption can be found that way.

Saint Croix said...

Here's what Pope John Paul II had to say...

I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors that may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. You will come to understand that nothing is definitively lost and you will also be able to ask forgiveness from your child, who is now living in the Lord. With the friendly and expert help and advice of other people, and as a result of your own painful experience, you can be among the most eloquent defenders of everyone's right to life. Through your commitment to life, whether by accepting the birth of other children or by welcoming and caring for those most in need of someone to be close to them, you will become promoters of a new way of looking at human life.

stephen cooper said...

John Paul had many good things to say.

You too, Saint Croix!

Jeff Brokaw said...

I cannot be bothered to read an article headlined to put the idea in my head that banning abortions will turn the U.S. into a dystopian hellhole just like 1980s Romania.

Right. Place your bets America. I’m going with “nah”.

MB said...

The problem was not the anti-abortion laws. It was the intrusive, omnipresent, state-mandated spying. Doctors and nurses in every workplace (courtesy of government healthcare) mandatorily checked on women at least monthly, to see if they were getting pregnant and, if so, whether they were carrying their pregnancy to term. The government was the only employer, so there was no alternative to this.
This ubiquitous spying is what made the policy dystopian, not the anti-abortion laws. Restrictions on abortion were quite common, 50 years ago.
If Alabama institutes a similar program, with anti-abortion komissars in every enterprise, then the parallel will hold.
Even then, objectors could easily move to, say, New York or Virginia, again as opposed to Romania, where many died attempting to cross the border to Yugoslavia, en route to the West.

Narr said...

Someone mentioned growing up in an abortion-banning country and philosopher kings--so, Germany/Prussia (but that'd make a person pretty old)?

As I recall, one function of the Prussian state was pregnancy-policing. Couldn't allow the stock of musketeers to fall too low . . .

Not in that neighborhood!