"And society’s greater liberalism is matched by better scientific understanding of sex and the body parts that we use for it.... Our sexual landscape may look like the promised land, but not everyone wants to travel there...."
From "The truth about sex: we are not getting enough" (The Guardian)(groping over the evidence that people are having less sex).
"Pornography was too easy to blame, and in fact a US study showed that declines in sexual frequency were greatest among those who didn’t watch it. If we are in a state of anxious disconnect between public sex and our private activities, then it is to be expected: we’re knackered... [N]ow that sex is primetime and ubiquitous, we feel more able to be honest about how much – or how little – we’re actually getting...."
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83 comments:
I'm of the opinion that abortion upsets people and puts a damper on women, who are in charge of sexual relations.
And accusing every other man of rape, or attempted rape, or sex harassment, or saying the wrong thing, also dampens sexual relations.
So while technology has freed us up from making babies and creating families, that non-married swinging single lifestyle isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
And I wonder how much of feminist rage against men is subliminal hostility at all the abortions that women have to undergo.
Why. do I get the feeling that in a hundred years, the world is going to be mostly populated by religious types who didn’t fall for all of this current crapola.
It’s like that meme about evolution where it starts with the chimp and ends with a man, except the man is turned around and he says to the others “It’s a trap!"
I can’t even fathom why people are voluntarily having less sex. What the hell is wrong with people?
"The truth about sex: we are not getting enough"
Kamala Harris would beg to differ.
"unleashed from the bonds of church and religion"
slipped the surly bonds of earth
Actual lyrics from Crossroads
I went down to the crossroads
Fell down on my knees
Down to the crossroads
Fell down on my knees
Asked the Lord above for mercy
"Take me, if you please”
....
You can run, you can run
Tell my friend boy Willie Brown
Run, you can run
Tell my friend boy Willie Brown
And I'm standing at the crossroads
Believe I'm sinking down
Read more: Cream - Crossroads Lyrics | MetroLyrics
#MeNeither
and in fact a US study showed that there's no reason to read The Guardian.
++
American adults had sex about nine fewer times per year in the early 2010s compared to the late 1990s in data from the nationally representative General Social Survey, N = 26,620, 1989-2014.
This was partially due to the higher percentage of unpartnered individuals, who have sex less frequently on average.
Sexual frequency declined among the partnered (married or living together) but stayed steady among the unpartnered, reducing the marital/partnered advantage for sexual frequency.
Declines in sexual frequency were similar across gender, race, region, educational level, and work status and were largest among those in their 50s, those with school-age children, and those who did not watch pornography.
In analyses separating the effects of age, time period, and cohort, the decline was primarily due to birth cohort (year of birth, also known as generation).
With age and time period controlled, those born in the 1930s (Silent generation) had sex the most often, whereas those born in the 1990s (Millennials and iGen) had sex the least often.
The decline was not linked to longer working hours or increased pornography use.
Age had a strong effect on sexual frequency: Americans in their 20s had sex an average of about 80 times per year, compared to about 20 times per year for those in their 60s.
The results suggest that Americans are having sex less frequently due to two primary factors: An increasing number of individuals without a steady or marital partner and a decline in sexual frequency among those with partners.
++
can’t even fathom why people are voluntarily having less sex. What the hell is wrong with people?
It all started when monkey bars were banned as too risky. I got my first deliberate upskirt on the monkey bars.
The frequency of sex is down between unmarried singles. Married couples have the most sex. Unmarried sex is not a good thing.
The question: Why are more singles unmarried, alone, and uncoupled? Brad Wilcox does research on this question. He's the sociologist, at UofVA center for the family, who publicized the information about lower rates of sex.
Love me Tinder love me true
Love is a Many Gendered Thing.
And I wonder how much of feminist rage against men is subliminal hostility at all the abortions that women have to undergo.
It's funny, it's been my experience; among the women i've known (as friends) that, as they had more abortions (i had nothing to do with Any of them), they Did become more radical feminists. I hadn't thought about it before, but there does seem to be a correlation between:
thinking that they had to murder their children because of A MAN, and Hating MEN.
Isn't our New sex-positive version of reality Wonderful??
Maybe hedonism isn't what it was cracked up to be.
Singles don't go out as much in person; less socializing at events where they meet new people. More staying at home or hanging out with friends they already know. So fewer singles meet someone they want to marry. If you don't leave the house aside from work, you're less likely to meet your spouse.
Two of the best places to meet your spouse are school and church/ religious club like Hillel/ youth group. Younger generation isn't moving fast enough at University and they aren't as involved in youth groups or religious orgs in their early 20s to early 30s. So they miss two of the best ways to meet a spouse. Other options are stuff like hiking or bicycle clubs, but these are self-selecting around a particular interest so it cuts out a lot of spouse options.
The early 20s to early 30s group is cut off from institutions and orgs that would help them find a spouse.
wwww said...
The frequency of sex is down between unmarried singles. Married couples have the most sex
It Does seem like The Key To Happiness is to find someone you love, and marry them, and pop out babies.
For some reason, getting drunk at a bar, and going home with strangers several times a week isn't as rewarding as they tell you it will be.
If Only, If Only there was a Book of Rules that would help guide us? Maybe they could even follow it up with a book of the Good News, that even if you hadn't been following these Rules; you could STILL change your ways and live yourself right?
Here's one of Brad Wilcox's articles on this phenomenon. Younger gen is less happy. btw Brad and his wife have a large family, I think it is now 7 kids, but might be more.
"We wondered whether this trend was rooted in distinct shifts in young adults’ social ties—including what The Atlantic has called “the sex recession,” that is, a marked decline in sexual activity for this group in recent years. Human beings find meaning, direction, and purpose in and through our social relationships with others."
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/happiness-recession-causing-sex-depression/586405/
mockturtle said...
Maybe hedonism isn't what it was cracked up to be.
and, of course (as Usual) mockturtle says better in one line, what i tried to say in 2 posts
"For some reason, getting drunk at a bar, and going home with strangers several times a week isn't as rewarding as they tell you it will be."
Getting drunk at a bar is a bad, bad way to find a spouse. But part of the problem is they are not even doing this. Not meeting anywhere. No dancing, no drinking together, no nothing. They aren't going swing dancing. They're not going square dancing. They aren't going to pubs. They aren't leaving the house much. They aren't meeting new people. They are alone at home or they've got a small social group with a couple of friends. They aren't meeting new people, so they can't meet someone to date. It results in no spouse and no kids.
This is a sub-set of people. I know a lot of people in their older 20s and 30s with a spouse and kids. But Wilcox shows a group of them is getting left out.
I'm a broken record on this, but church groups or groups like Hillel, young 20s, early 30s groups are a great way to find a spouse.
#MySingleFriendsDon'tListenToMe
Antidepressants and other psychotropic drugs kill libido. And nowadays people take 3-4 different Rx.
Just read some of the psych or drug subs at Reddit - they're crying about it there. I mean guys complaining they don't even masturbate anymore.
Declines in sexual frequency were similar across gender, race, region, educational level, and work status and were largest among those in their 50s, those with school-age children, and those who did not watch pornography.
I suppose this is because of the idea that maintenance sex is wrong. I think maintenance sex is a great way to show love.
wwww said... I know a lot of people in their older 20s and 30s with a spouse and kids.
My coworker invited me to his (Baptist) church; i was Staggered to see how many people in their older 20s and 30s were there (with their spouse and kids). There was also a Large amount of teenagers there; that were well on their way to becoming happily married too.
As Nobody said....
Why. do I get the feeling that in a hundred years, the world is going to be mostly populated by religious types who didn’t fall for all of this current crapola.
Perhaps it has something to do with feminism's insistence that all penis in vagina intercourse is rape, and that heterosexual sex is a tool of the Patriarchy to oppress women.
Such a rich topic! Let me start by deconstructing THIS sentence: "The use of power by men to get sex is as old as the Roman hills, and it is still endemic – along with appallingly low prosecution rates for rape – but something in that balance of power may have shifted, and for the good.
It should be re-written to say "the use of sex by women to gain the favor of powerful men is as old as the hills." Because THAT is the truth. For every Harvey Weinstein there are dozens of Jennifer Lawrences ready to suck his cock. Women have plenty of moral (or immoral) agency when it comes to sex. And there are more aspiring women than there are powerful men. The Guardian is a UK paper and it must be observed that British culture is broken - they traded their rich heritage for cheap kebabs and curry. And the girls of Rotherham were the sacrificial virgins for their progressive guilt over having had an Empire. So I am not much open to moral preening about rape from a paper based in the UK.
Because 50-plus years of the sexual revolution has made everyone so much happier and fulfilled. Not.
Seeing sex as the center of human experience, seeing genital rubbing and a bio-chemical release of good feeling as the be all and end all, essentially being enslaved to sexual desire, has not made life better. When sex is viewed disproportionately in this way, it tends to ultimately lead to a more empty existence.
Here is another point - age cohorts in the West are greatly affected by current and classical social trends. Young people are having less sex because Progressive feminists have demonized hetero male sexuality (they encourage gays, on the other hand). As a young man at the University of Texas in Austin, I would walk up to attractive young women on campus and ask them to go on dates. And they would often accept! If they weren't interested, I wasn't hauled before rabid feminists at the Dean of Student Affairs and forced to confess or be banned from campus.
Married couples with children have less sex because, well, children. Modern parenting kills the sex drive quite effectively.
Older men in the West are having less sex because sexual contact between older men and younger women has been demonized over the same period of time that we have mainstreamed homosexuality. In my late 50s, I opined to my younger nieces that it would be more acceptable for me to come out as gay and sport around with another 50-something man, than to show up with a 20-something woman. As I have noted before, some dating apps prevent me from even seeing women younger than 40. I married a 28 year old at the age of 62 and told the same nieces that it was like having a gay uncle back in the 1950s.
And just to finish my rant, young women who teach in public school should have mandatory training in how to pick up older men. That way they could have their sexual needs fulfilled without the risk of prison.
What bullshit.
@Mark - The sexual revolution was great. It's 50 years of unbridled feminism that killed the joy of it. You go ahead and enjoy church or video games. I have other interests.
A reasonable breadth of sexual experience teaches one that it doesn’t work the way it does in books and movies; and demonstrates that each person is different. This helps one to avoid unrealistic expectations about more serious relationships. The idea that one should embark on one of the core experiences of life with absolutely no practice or experience is one of the stranger ones.
I wonder how many of the not meeting people are the products of divorce or single mothers? Or they’re scared.
Oso Negro suggests: And just to finish my rant, young women who teach in public school should have mandatory training in how to pick up older men.
If they wanted to pick up older men they could figure out how. Would you be interested in learning how to pick up older women?
Older men in the West are having less sex because sexual contact between older men and younger women has been demonized over the same period of time that we have mainstreamed homosexuality.
We watched a 1954 movie called "Susan Slept Here" which I had seen when it was new and the discussion of Doris Day and her romantic comedies reminded me of it. It was as a good as I remembered and my wife remarked that it could not be made today. Debbie Reynolds is a 17 year old juvenile delinquent and Dick Powell is a 35 year old bachelor.
Cute movie and very typical of 1950s treatment of sex in movies.
Some eras of my life I got more sex than the proverbial toilet seat.
Other eras I couldn’t get laid if I paid for it.
And all levels in between.
Haven’t noticed that this was because of social or political trends.
Sexually liberated, emotionally stunted. The other extreme are animals that have sex only to reproduce.
The other extreme are animals that have sex only to reproduce.
I don't know that the modern hyper-sex culture is much different from dogs trying to hump your leg. It's not really the other extreme -- it is a reduction of the human to the animal.
@Mockturtle - Picking up older men has been proscribed socially for younger women. They could do it, but they don't because of progressive feminist indoctrination. Their sexual needs are unfulfilled, so they end up hitting on their students and getting busted. I learned how to pick up older women when I was 17 years old. I have no sexual interest at all in American women of any age.
@ Mark - YES! We are indeed animals! Celebrate your animal nature from time to time.
@ n.n. - I have no doubt that animals have deep and rich emotional lives. But I sincerely doubt that it is because they are only having sex to reproduce.
Oso Negro:
I have no doubt that animals have deep and rich emotional lives.
I never claimed they did. Although, that may be inferred in a one-dimensional analysis.
Sex = click bait.
But then when it comes to sex, most people are talkers not doers.
I'm reading a life of Raymond Chandler and its shows why Young man - older woman doesn't work out. When Chandler was 30 and his hot wife was 40 it worked out. But when he was 40, she was 50 and he started roaming. And by the time he was 60, she was dead. It works better the other way round.
No mention of #MeToo, hookup culture, sexual harassment, etc. Or sexually transmitted diseases generally, much less HPV, antibiotic resistant gonorrhea or HIV/AIDS specifically.
Good point Lance. It's really awful that the mainstream media does not apply every single hobby horse socio-political fascination of yours to every random story that is out there.
I think you'll find that if you stick to Infowars The Drudge Report Rush Limbaugh Sean the cock hannity for your infotainment
Shouting Thomas admits that he is a toe tapper with a wide stance. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just hard to be a Republican senator with that on your resume
As you pore through profiles of women on dating apps, there are a significant number of them who categorically state upfront that no Republican or conservative men need contact them. Because the only ones that they will fuck are the leftie beta males and the cucks, it’s no wonder that they are reduced to exploring their own female wonderfulness on their own and then complain about it to the leftie rags like The Guardian.
Since it’s beyond rare to find a leftie woman who is actually attractive, it’s no loss except at 2:30 am when the bar closes and the beer goggles are in place and well-fitted.
For myself, my wife is hot and willing so I have no complaints.
- Krumhorn
I'm reading a life of Raymond Chandler and its shows why Young man - older woman doesn't work out. When Chandler was 30 and his hot wife was 40 it worked out. But when he was 40, she was 50 and he started roaming. And by the time he was 60, she was dead. It works better the other way round.
Of course men fantasize that they are sexually desirable well into their 80's. That's the protective male ego at work.
My late husband was 16 years older than I and it worked out. I was in love with him and I was faithful to him because of my beliefs. Don't think women don't look around, too.
I think it's because the pressure and stress of equality in the 20th century have driven too many women batshit crazy. Too much to assimilate in too short of time. Our lovely Inga is not an outlier, she's the picture under the definition of whatever it is. Our lovely hostess Althouse has had her moments too.
I got to experience "semi" single life again in the SCA (the more serious verious of Renfaire people). The organization has a high tolerance for "open marriage", so I had lots of single women make themselves available to me. To the very last one each had some form of psychosis that was disqualifying.
I wasn't going to cheat on the Wife anyway, but she is a rare bird: Mostly Sane
"My late husband was 16 years older than I and it worked out. I was in love with him and I was faithful to him because of my beliefs. Don't think women don't look around, too."
I guess woman "looking around" is a good reason to marry an older woman. If she's 60 and you're 45, there won't be much of that.
As you pore through profiles of women on dating apps, there are a significant number of them who categorically state upfront that no Republican or conservative men need contact them.
Heh. Those are the ones I used as sex toys.
Because there are just some things you don't do to the future mother of your children.
" think it's because the pressure and stress of equality in the 20th century have driven too many women batshit crazy. Too much to assimilate in too short of time."
Fen, you need to start writing 21st Century. I know its a hard habit to break.
Oh yah, listen to me, the resident sociopath, lecture about sanity. Sorry LOL. I'll be over here in the corner with my Stoli rocks.
Fen, you need to start writing 21st Century. I know its a hard habit to break.
Hah. I do when I rant about AI fumbling so miserably. We were promised Hoverboards! What do you mean "card read error" ?! Catch up to the 21st century please.
But I will take your advice.
Well, I'm boring and married. However, the gal I married was hot in her 20's and remains hot in her 50's - so that helps a ton. (And she's a great cook, a great Mom, a nice person, and a high earner - I really did luck out).
For nearly 50 years, the Feminists have continually pushed for Women's RIGHTS - the RIGHT to do what you want with your body, the RIGHT to equal treatment, the RIGHT to this, the RIGHT to that.
Problem: the females are so caught up in all these rights, they've lost sight of just having a good time,
My favorite is the guy who brags about how well his wife blows him.
"Yah Bob, she must have natural talent" I muse as I flashback to his Becky holding court in the back room of our frat parties.
Men seem to think their girl learned all her sexy moves from a book.
It's funny, it's been my experience; among the women i've known (as friends) that, as they had more abortions (i had nothing to do with Any of them), they Did become more radical feminists. I hadn't thought about it before, but there does seem to be a correlation between:
thinking that they had to murder their children because of A MAN, and Hating MEN.
Isn't our New sex-positive version of reality Wonderful??
Why are radical feminists getting pregnant?
On polls trying to measure happiness, you need to keep in mind that being unhappy is kind of a fashion statement or fad currently, along with being a victim, non-sexual, ect.
When I was a kid/teen in the 70s, the rules were simple: the boys competed against boys, and the winners got the best girls.
There's an understated brilliance in that simple approach.
From age 12-13 until today, I don't think I have ever once felt I was having enough sex- even while I was having bad sex.
I guess woman "looking around" is a good reason to marry an older woman. If she's 60 and you're 45, there won't be much of that.
She might still look. ;-)
wwww wrote:
"The early 20s to early 30s group is cut off from institutions and orgs that would help them find a spouse."
This is surely true, but I wouldn't have written it this way- they cut themselves off.
I should have read the follow up comments- you got it, wwww.
So many pussy hats.
So little pussy.
When I was in a BS program as an older student a few years back, I was struck by how little I heard about hooking up, etc. Half the class went to Italy for a quarter. "Certainly I'll hear some stories when they get back" I thought. Nope. My first time through college (early 1980's) we had constant casual sex, preceded by a night of dancing.
I asked a 20-something female classmate about this. Her reply was that they had the shit scared outta them by AIDS/HIV. Lots of preaching that sex=death would put a damper on things, I would think. I think that and the many theories already listed: antidepressants, lack of social skills, are the reason.
My own 27 year old niece is travelling Europe alone...posting to an audience of 3 or so on Instagram. She's been there 3 months and I don't think she's made even ONE human connection worth noting. If I had been travelling like her I would have had several people's addresses/contact info and a list of people to invite to see me in the US by the time I left. I mean all these old buildings and such are great - can't imagine NOT wanting to connect with the great grandchildren of the people that built these amazing cities.
Wouldn't this be reason for environmentalists to celebrate? Less sex less people?
"When I was a kid/teen in the 70s, the rules were simple: the boys competed against boys, and the winners got the best girls."
How are you defining "best"?
Also, does this mean you were less interested in "getting" a girl you liked than in getting one so you could have bragging rights?
"Because there are just some things you don't do to the future mother of your children."
Why not?
Maybe that primetime and ubiquitous sex is scaring and scarring the toddlers.
I wrote a book called New Persia, where the sexual mores of the future were more conservative than they are now.
On a colony world, it will be necessary for women to have more than two children if population growth is to be maintained. That requires strict marriages and marrying young.
The future belongs to the people who show up, and "patriarchal" cultures which prioritize child rearing simply outbreed the alternatives. We may not like that, but I couldn't see any other way to colonize other planets without either constant immigration or cloning, neither of which fit my setting.
The review I linked didn't put as great a distinction between Baha'i and Islam as I do, but whatever. Baha'i is to Islam as Mormonism is to Christianity, and the Baha'is I've met are similarly nice people. Their world HQ is in Israel and they seem to love America. I have nothing but nice things to say about them.
Also, I live in a neighborhood full of Somali Muslims and... they are great neighbors. No crime, no homeless people, nice, respectful children. This is in Portland, too, so that's saying something.
we're fucked.
we're fucked up.
we're fucked over.
but we're not fucking
It's nature's way of receiving you
It's nature's way of retrieving you
It's nature's way of telling you
Something's wrong, something's wrong, something's wrong
"It's not Nice ...to fool Mother Nature !"
On the OP, attitudes toward sex are one of the spectra on which human cultures vary. It's never fixed, there is no "progress," and things don't move in only one direction. I would be very surprised if in a century people believed what we do now. I imagine they'll be appalled by some of our behavior (my prediction is abortion rights and how badly we fail children growing up in poverty.) But I don't know for sure, the future is unpredictable and SOMETHING we take for granted will be awful when seen from 2119.
So many pussy hats.
So little pussy.
Bravo, Kevin. ;-D
"when it comes to sex, we're getting zip"
The Fuck-less Zip
Seems that the biggest decline in sex frequency is among the unmarried. Perhaps, just perhaps, this whole free love thing was utter bullshit.
Free love IS utter bullshit, Joe. Nothing is free. And promiscuous sex isn't empowering but enslaving.
In my late 50s, I opined to my younger nieces that it would be more acceptable for me to come out as gay and sport around with another 50-something man, than to show up with a 20-something woman.
Not only that, but old gay guys can run around with barely legal men and they get nothing but cheers from it from women fans of gay men*, while if straight men did the same thing with women they would be vilified.
My gay BIL is pushing 70 and spends his retirement roaming the country in his RV with 20 year old boy toys and no one says boo about it. He has a clutch of middle aged sisters who fall all over each other 'liking' his Facebook posts about this lifestyle. Can you imagine the judgement if he were straight?
Whatever floats your boat; not my circus/not my monkeys; but the multiple standards from, particularly, logic-challenged women are hilarious and annoying.
*there is a handy, if vulgar, rhyming term for this but I don't think our hostess allows its use.
but the multiple standards from, particularly, logic-challenged women are hilarious and annoying.
Amen, sister!
Misplaced Pants:
Ah! Had forgotten about the awesome phrase "Not my circus, not my monkeys" - gotta use that one soon. I had not realized the term Fag Hag was off limits here (oopsie just couldn't help myself). They cheer on your BIL because they are living vicariously through them, and would mount a cute gay guy looking to 'expand or explore' in a heartbeat.
Ah! Had forgotten about the awesome phrase "Not my circus, not my monkeys"
Thweet!
goes well with "Never put the monkeys in charge of the Bananas"
I never considered religion to be anti-sex. Religion just offered that sex was best in a long term and committed relationship. And religion was very supportive of long term and committed relationship. Now there is no interest in long term relationships or sex. I think there are so many more things to do than have sex these days. It is not just porn. It is anything that distracts us from seeking physical companionship with others.
Then, there are the silly things like Alyssa Milano. These days, celebrities seem more prudish than Baptist ministers.
As I see the term patriarchy bandied about, I often wonder why people think the United States is or has ever been one. I'm 63 and can remember my grandparents and their marriages. My grandfathers may have earned the money, but they certainly didn't rule the roost. Going through my family history here, There was well more than one female ancestor who died in childbirth. But not one from work related causes. Among the males lots of accidental deaths. Falling off wagons and getting run over. Killed in battle. Train accidents. Things falling on them. Why were they doing work that might very well kill them? To support the wife who watched over and ran the household. And in the household, in any normal family, the matriarch ruled with an iron hand. A woman who couldn't control her house and husband was universally scorned. The woman might not vote, might not earn a living and be dependent on the man for money, but she was far from powerless.
And men? In a good Christian house- they treated their wife with respect. Wife beating manuals and instructions come from islamic sources, not Christian ones. A man who neglected his family duties, who spent all the family money gambling or in the saloon was as scorned as a woman was who couldn't control her husband. Well, the two went together....
I've been married over 40 years now. Five children. We've never made any attempt to evenly split household chores. I do mine, she does hers. Now some we do aren't totally traditional. I do all the grocery shopping. She hates doing it. And breakfasts are traditionally made by me.
My neighbors are Mennonite. They're up to a dozen children. Anyone who thinks the man rules the house with a dozen children in it is deluding themselves.
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