"... where residents said partygoers paid $10 to enter a basement room usually reserved for tenant meetings. The music was blasting as the crowd, which included teenagers from an elite public high school in Brooklyn, spilled into the courtyard. Barely an hour had passed before residents of the development, the First Houses, called the police at about 10 p.m. But someone upstairs had decided to do something about it. White paint and a caustic chemical were poured from overhead, burning at least 10 of the teenagers in the courtyard, the police said on Sunday.... After the paint and chemicals rained down, some partygoers rushed the East Third Street building’s front door and attempted to force their way in, slamming their fists against the door’s glass panes, cracking one, said Michael Strachan, 60, who lives in the building. One of the residents who had gathered in a first-floor hallway went to the door and showed her government identification to the young people through the glass, witnesses said. The group quickly scattered at the sight of the ID and the arriving police, who told them to back off.... 'I’m concerned because this is a gated community,' [one tenant] said. 'No one should have been in the gate to begin with unless they live here.'"
From "10 Teenagers Burned by Acidlike Liquid Thrown From Above at Raucous Party/The teenagers, some of them students at Brooklyn Tech, had been partying in a rented basement room at a public housing complex in Manhattan’s East Village" (NYT).
That's a lot of chaos. Count the manifestations of failure of empathy.
It's a very old-fashioned remedy — I think I used to see it in the old comic strips — pouring a liquid from the upper story onto somebody who's bothering you in the street below. But this was a "caustic chemical," an "acidlike liquid." Cruel, depending on what, exactly, the liquid was.
If it were a private house and the homeowner discovered that teenagers had broken in and were having a party, what could the homeowner do? Here, you have people living in "a public housing complex," and they want to think that the rules and the gate protect them from intruders. What can they do? We hear that they "called the police at about 10 p.m. But someone upstairs had decided to do something about it," but we're not told what time that person upstairs made that decision. Was it 15 minutes later? And hour later? 2 hours later? I don't know. I do know that if I called the police and reported an unauthorized party in my basement, they'd be here in 5 minutes.
Clearly, the NYT's sympathy is with the burned/"burned" teenagers. The tenant is made to look like heartless and privileged: "I’m concerned because this is a gated community." A gated community! But it's East Village public housing. Shouldn't these residents feel secure in their homes? I'm not defending pouring acid on teenagers. I'm saying people want security and if they don't get it from the authorities, they tend to resort to self-help.
IN THE COMMENTS: Observing that the NYT wrote "caustic chemical" and "Acidlike Liquid," mockturtle wrote, "Well, which is it? Caustic is alkaline."
May 6, 2019
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79 comments:
Who organized the party, and who collected the money? It did not happen passively.
That's who the police should be talking to.
The obvious point is that walls are good things to stop invaders.
"The obvious point is that walls are good things to stop invaders."
Not without enforcement!
"That's who the police should be talking to."
They should also be investigating themselves. Why didn't they respond to the initial calls about the unauthorized party? Were they ever going to respond? Did they respond only when the tenants resorted to self-help?
But is it the police's job to deal with questions about who's authorized in an apartment building? If not, what do tenants do about the landlord's failure to give them the security they were promised?
Given that they paid to get in, most or all the teenagers could be expected to think this was a sanctioned party. The person who threw something (acid?) out the window--he was not defending his property, it wasn't his property. If caught, he should go to jail.
Good question about the gap between when the police were called and when they arrived. It should not have been more than a few minutes and the longer the gap, the more likely residents are to take action on their own.
I live in a nice middle class neighborhood in a city generally considered well run and last summer some kid threw a wild, at times violent, street party around the corner at 2 in the morning and at least 7 neighbors called 911. The party died down around 4:30 AM and the police arrived to talk to the dad about it the next afternoon--about 16 hours later.
It's public housing, so the landlord is the city.
Democrat-run city. See Francisco, San, 1 ea.
Interestingly, the story as told by the NYT article has no racial angle at all.
You can look up the demographics of Brooklyn Tech, the elite public high school where the teenagers were from. It's 61% Asian, 21% white.
As for the tenants, the man who's quoted the most has a Hispanic name.
Funny that no one can provide an analysis of the mystery liquid. Does that mean it was analyzed and turned out to be something less malicious like white vinegar?
The party died down around 4:30 AM and the police arrived to talk to the dad about it the next afternoon--about 16 hours later.
Some of these parties get to the point that police involvement creates further disorder.
The cops are very outnumbered and the participants are drunk, high, armed, and hold grievances against the police.
Interestingly, the story as told by the NYT article has no racial angle at all.
Seriously? The caustic liquid raining down on the poor kids was white.
"The party died down around 4:30 AM and the police arrived to talk to the dad about it the next afternoon--about 16 hours later."
In my hypothetical, where I predict the Madison police would arrive in 5 minutes, the partiers are inside my house. I agree that a noisy party call is given lower priority. I'm trying to empathize with the sense of invasion people feel when their secure enclosure is breached. As a homeowner, I feel strongly supported by my city and trust the police to come immediately to help me with the home invasion. But if you live in an apartment building, even one with a locked gate and strict rules, maybe your corresponding interest is not taken seriously by the police.
White paint and a caustic chemical Acidlike Liquid
Well, which is it? Caustic is alkaline.
In my college neighborhood, there has been practice of buying a keg and charging each party goer (I don't know, say) $10 for a red plastic cup which can be refilled endlessly from the keg. The organizers have (I think) been charged with selling alcohol without a license, and serving alcohol to minors, and probably other things. In my neighborhood the police action has been relatively successful to putting a stop to this. However, I think we need to recognize that police action can only be used when the perpetrators are (largely) white. So this approach may not be feasible in the situation described.
Landlord is the city, I guess, but really it's the NYCHA who runs city housing. This apparently is what happens when kids are priced out of the warehouses and basements of Gowanus and Williamsburg. From the article, it sounds like the guy rained Drano on them. That definitely stings. It's slightly encouraging that the nerds of Brooklyn Tech still party.
tim maguire said... "Given that they paid to get in, most or all the teenagers could be expected to think this was a sanctioned party."
h said... "In my college neighborhood, there has been practice of buying a keg and charging each party goer (I don't know, say) $10 for a red plastic cup which can be refilled endlessly from the keg."
I think h has it right The $10 charge sounds like one of these illicit house parties where you pay for the red cup and drink all you want. It's a standard way to serve liquor illegally.
Remember it's public housing. There's no way the city would support an illegal drinking event like that.
New York rave culture and underground parties (literally in this case) are so prevalent every week I wonder how much attention police give to these things. The best events that avoid police intervention are in empty industrial buildings away from residential areas. Poor planning on someone's part.
Usually, when cops get called to the projects it's not for unruly parties by kids from elite high schools. I don't know what project this happened at, but that area (E. Village/LES) maintains a robust drug trade centered around housing projects. Cops going in heavy to such a party could have been a disaster. Violence is way down in NYC, but living a few blocks from a big housing project, you see/hear enough police activity (and then read about it later in the blotter) to know that mostly cops are dealing with things far scarier and more dangerous to them than unruly high school parties. This could have been a lot worse.
Maybe the most famous of all Charles Addams cartoons. "Boiling Oil."
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/213709944797692730/?lp=true
Sounds like The Joint is Jumping
Fats Waller, 1930s
https://youtu.be/LKe6yH3ZwGo
John Henry
I'm honestly surprised the cops didn't bust up the party. As someone who in my youth went to many and threw many keggers. The party itself is very easy to break up. Once the police show up and start writing tickets for noise complaints and underage consumption, people will scatter. Though I don't know what the neighborhood is like. Perhaps the cops thought it was better if all those kids, many of whom sound like they were high-school students, stayed in one contained area rather than wandering around that neighborhood. Unleashed onto tthe neighborhood at large they could have caused problems themselves or been the victims of other people seeing an easy target.
A large noisy party in a residential building is a bad idea.
What a crappy article devoid of accurate information. We all have more question than answers...yet another case of dead journalism. Hell, just this weekend I found myself relying on Chuck for information on the Kentucky Derby controversy when the reporting was so bad and unreliable. Crikey!
White paint and a caustic chemical Acidlike Liquid
Well, which is it? Caustic is alkaline.
I don't trust reporters on ANY science topic. But I always thought caustic, in the chemical context, just meant attacks/burns flesh. Could be wrong, too lazy to look it up.
mockturtle wrote, "Well, which is it? Caustic is alkaline."
mockturtle is incorrect.
caustic
able to burn or corrode organic tissue by chemical action.
"a caustic cleaner"
synonyms: corrosive, corroding, mordant, acid, alkaline, burning, stinging, acrid, harsh, destructive
"a caustic cleaner"
Fernandistein: I am not incorrect. Chemically speaking, caustic is alkaline [high pH] not acidic [low pH]. And a 'caustic cleaner' is in fact alkaline in nature. Obviously you're not a chemist.
Water is both an acid and a base, so technically could be the liquid poured on the partiers and the article remain correct.
Both acidic and caustic substances can burn, but they aren't the same thing. Noting the inconsistent characterization of the substance identifies sloppy, lazy writing of the article and headline. What else in the article is not consistent with the facts of the incident?
I wouldn't get caught up on the use of caustic. To most people something is caustic if it is reasonably chemically active, and will react with animal or plant material. It is like getting hung up on Organic or Chemical-free. If you use the actual scientific definition for those words, their everyday use becomes silly, meaningless, or just flat out wrong. But it is generally understood by the people using those words and most people who hear them. And I say this as someone who got their undergraduate degree in Chemistry. The only thing people have to worry about is if the vernacular vocabulary starts bleeding into the actual field or education related applications. If in schools kids are learning about Organic, chemical free foods without really learning what those words mean and how they are incorrectly used in those circumstances then some adjustments need to be made.
In the old days, it might have been a chamber pot.
I am not incorrect.
LOL. Obviously you don't speaka da English too good. A dictionary could help you communicate with other people.
But someone upstairs had decided to do something about it. White paint and a caustic chemical were poured from overhead, burning at least 10 of the teenagers in the courtyard, the police said on Sunday.
== WALLS
Can we ASSUME that these tenants were All Wearing MAGA hats?
A similar event happened in Dallas a few years back. Then, a resident decided to throw a party at the community pool. They blocked access to other residents, took cover charge, and had dozens of guests all from outside the neighborhood. The police were called, but the party goers ignored demands to leave the area. Eventually, an office arrested the girl, but foolishly pulled his gun. The story became about police brutality nationally, but locally, the other residents were upset that the pool was damaged by the party goers, there was no "rental" of the pool, so the arrested girl denied other residents access to a public service they all paid to use.
re. caustic vs acid.
Rather than debate the rather obvious difference, do they not know? Wouldn't a reporter, who is supposedly curious by nature, want to know exactly what it was? Did the police report the name of the substance, as 'casustic chemical acidlike liquid' in which case, it should be in quotes.
If there were people burned from this liquid, presumably there would have been an ambulance/first responder: they would need to know what the substance is, as treating caustic burns may be very different from treating acid burns.
Also, it was likely a household chemical, so should narrow it down, a bit.
This kind of sloppy reporting is very annoying: a 12 year old would do a better job.
They (the cops) should also be investigating themselves. Why didn't they respond to the initial calls about the unauthorized party? Were they ever going to respond?
WHY Would ANYONE Expect police to respond to something where less than $750 was stolen?
The POLICE have already announced that they will no longer be doing ANYTHING unless a person is killed (at which point, they will come and fill out some papers)
Welcome to the New America!
a caustic chemical Acidlike Liquid
If you count up the ions; there is a Very Common liquid that contains (equal numbers of) acid and alkaline ions... This common liquid has a PH of 7
unauthorized partygoers Undocumented partiers/partyers?
"No Partygoers Are Unauthorized"
The Vault Dweller raises an excellent point regarding popular usage. One day I was talking with another woman on the subject of 'natural ingredients' and 'organic foods'. When I pointed out that arsenic was 'natural', though not organic, and cyanide was both natural and organic, she went ballistic. "That can't be true."
Admittedly, I was splitting hairs regarding a popular usage of the term 'caustic' but I wanted to emphasize the fact that such cavalier disregard of accuracy is endemic in news reporting. This is true not only with science but even more so with medical information.
"The obvious point is that walls are good things to stop invaders."
"Not without enforcement!"
Isn't pouring hot oil over the ramparts the traditional way of protecting the castle?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/history-chips-hot_oil-warfare-battle-castles-mlyn1470_low.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/military-chef-cook-hot_oil-sieges-siege_war-wmi110816_low.jpg
I’m concerned because this is a gated community,' [one tenant] said. 'No one should have been in the gate to begin with unless they live here.'"
That gets a gold star.
WHY Would ANYONE Expect police to respond to something where less than $750 was stolen?
The POLICE have already announced that they will no longer be doing ANYTHING unless a person is killed (at which point, they will come and fill out some papers)
Welcome to the New America!
Following Britain’s standard. I read that a few years ago.
Chicago has progressed far beyond New York in the party department.
500 "youths" ran riot in the North Michigan shopping district two weekends ago.
It was the first warm Saturday night this year. Preview of summer attractions. Come to Chicago and party.
A small group of adult left wing white women even formed a circle around some of the "Youths" to protect them from the police.
Castles were protected with, among other things, the felicitously names murder holes through which nasty things could be poured down on invaders who’d breached the outermost defenses. Acid is an innovation.
There's no way the city would support an illegal drinking event like that.
Wait until Trump comes out against it.
Sanctuary Parties!
NIMGC Not In My Gated Community
...but on your border ranch
"That can't be true."
Truth is what I want it to be!
Not much in the article connects Brooklyn Tech or its student body to the event. Quotes one woman whose kid was there.
Bet NYT's "caustic" "acid" is hot water.
mockturtle said...
"And a 'caustic cleaner' is in fact alkaline in nature."
This is not a lye!
Caustic, acid: Distinctions not cost effective.
This is not a lye!
now that's pHunny !
Things are obviously better on the Lower East Side (aka "East Village," in real-estate lingo) than they were when I lived there (in a new law tenement, on 3rd St between Avenues B and C). At least in those days, residents of the Projects would make it very clear that if you didn't belong there you'd best get out, now.
It is, after all, classic Dylan: "The cops don't need you and they expect the same."
I think they were lucky they just got some some mysterious "caustic liquid" thrown at them.
As for the liquid, my guess would be Liquid Plumbr, which contains < 2% NaOH, plus liquid chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite). I wouldn't want to take a bath in it, but it's not going to strip the skin off you if someone tosses some on you.
Althouse's cruelty has a pH of 7
Barely an hour had passed before residents of the development, the First Houses, called the police at about 10 p.m. But someone upstairs had decided to do something about it.
The "but" in that makes me think the two things happened almost concurrently.
Gated or not, a community is like a neighborhood and a party in your neighborhood is not going to have the same importance to the police as (an unauthorized) one in your house.
Are residents allowed to have guests? Is there a limit? Do the guests have to fit, and stay, in the resident party-giver's apartment?
One of the residents who had gathered in a first-floor hallway went to the door and showed her government identification to the young people through the glass, witnesses said.
I thought government jobs paid better.
"They should also be investigating themselves. Why didn't they respond to the initial calls about the unauthorized party? Were they ever going to respond? Did they respond only when the tenants resorted to self-help?"
There's a police precinct just a couple of blocks from there. The police could have been there in minutes just getting there on foot!
Apples and oranges: homeowners v renters, in cops' eyes. "Take it up with the landlords" v. "Call the cops with any problems..."
When a neighborhood "goes", homeowners get treated by police with less respect too. Reality.
"Several residents of the building said they overheard the teenagers telling the police and each other that the host of the party was a young man who had advertised the gathering on social media..."
Which "social media?" The reportsrs/writers doubtless know the name - Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, whatever. Likely have seen the actual event announcement on soneone's phone.
Who are the writers or the NYT trying to protect, and why? Show us a screen-capture and name the account which advertised the event. Such reporting will engender more responsible use of "social media."
Althouse,
"Did they respond only when the tenants resorted to self-help?"
Heh. It's the old joke/story:
"I called 911 to report a burglary in progress. The dispatcher said that it would be at least an hour before an officer could show up.
So I hung up, then called back and said, 'Never mind, I shot the burglar; no hurry.'
Three minutes later, two patrol cars screech to a halt in front of my house, and several officers run up.
'Where's the shooting victim???'
'Actually, nobody got shot.'
'I thought you told 911 that someone got shot here!!!'
'I thought they said no officer could respond right away.' "
(Editorial comment: where is Robert Peel when you need him?)
gilbar,
" This common liquid has a PH of 7"
Whoa. On a scale of 1-14, this is halfway to the strongest possible causticity. OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!! How can an ordinary peon even obtain such a dangerous substance? They must have gotten it illegally off the black market or something.
tim maguire:
I live in a nice middle class neighborhood in a city generally considered well run and last summer some kid threw a wild, at times violent, street party around the corner at 2 in the morning and at least 7 neighbors called 911. The party died down around 4:30 AM and the police arrived to talk to the dad about it the next afternoon--about 16 hours later.
I have called the police 4-5 times in 3 decades about noisy neighbors. Police have come to the property within a half hour, every time. I would characterize my neighborhood as lower middle class.
Teenagers and 'youths' suck. They're old enough to, generally, know right from wrong - like, you know, breaking into someone else's place is on the 'wrong' side of the ledger.
But when they pull some basic, easily understood 'wrong' shit and get burned, apparently literally and figuratively, well, then 'cmon mang, they jus kidz'.
F 'em.
Rick.T. said...
mockturtle said...
"And a 'caustic cleaner' is in fact alkaline in nature."
This is not a lye!
It's difficult to overestimate the ignorance of a journalist.
Matt suggests cutting teens a little slack and I have to agree, having been young once. These shenanigans should not be without consequences, however and kids should learn that from toddlerhood. Parents [usually mothers] who try to protect their kids from the consequences of their actions are doing both them and society a grave disservice.
Probably either Drano or bleach. I lean towards Drano because if it were bleach, it would have been identified since nearly everyone knows how it smells.
Yeah, 300 partying teens in a basement is no danger to the building at all.
Count the manifestations of failure of empathy
I count at least two just on this side of my keyboard.
My guess is that the liquid was Holy Water. If you get burned by that stuff, whose fault is that?
but I wanted to emphasize the fact that such cavalier disregard of accuracy is endemic in news reporting.
You might want to alert the Merck Manual guys that they're getting it all wrong, too.
NOTE: This is the Professional Version.
"Caustics (strong acids and alkalis), when ingested, burn upper GI tract tissue...etc"
As an organic chemist, I worked with both strong acids and bases. Both burn you very effectively. Most acids produce stronger and more dangerous fumes- you don't want to be breathing HCl, HNO3, HF, or trifluoroacetic acid. Of the bases, ammonia is probably the most damaging to the lungs as a vapor, though the small chain mono-, di-, and tri-alkylamines are just as noxious- low boiling points.
When applied to the skin, my experience is that the strong acids hurt worse more quickly, while the the lyes hurt more later. The lyes (the hydroxides) also slower to wash away with water.
I read the article and got the feeling that the outraged parent(s) was less than sympathetic to the residents because it is public housing. How dare those tenants be upset with an illegal party when they are getting subsidized housing! Maybe I was just reading into it?
There's an epidemic of acid throwing in London where it's mostly male on male but the most cases of acid violence happen in the "Asian" world where it is mostly male on female.
Fernandistein, I'm sorry to hear that the Merck Manual also got it wrong. Guess you can't trust anyone nowadays.
As an organic chemist, I worked with both strong acids and bases. Both burn you very effectively.
Strong HCl [hydrochloric acid] can eat a hole in the floor but can exist comfortably [usually] in your stomach due to the protective nature of cells in the stomach lining. NaOH [sodium hydroxide, or lye, or 'caustic soda'] will kill you regardless. But, yes, both acid and alkaline compounds will burn.
This reminds me of that "dime piece" pool party in Texas, thrown by a black woman who whored out her daughter for dollars, that led to a white cop getting fired for daring to arrest a black teen who broke the law.
"Acid like substance"? Bleach maybe? Were nooses hung?
If you want to disperse a crowd of teenagers, just start playing some Mozart.
As someone who has had to live with human trash (ghetto trash in one building, wiggah trash in another), I say burn'em--burn'em all.
"As for the tenants, the man who's quoted the most has a Hispanic name." So where is Jorge Zimmerman living these days?
But its sad that there aren't any white people to blame.
Who are the writers or the NYT trying to protect, and why?
They know, and we know, and we know that they know, and they know that we know that they know, but such is life in the 21st Century West. Like Pravda in the old Soviet Union, you can’t get a clear picture of the news unless you take account of what’s left out of the story.
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