March 21, 2019

"John McCain received the fake and phony dossier. You hear about the dossier? It was paid for by Crooked Hillary Clinton."

"And John McCain got it. And what did he do? He didn’t call me. He turned it over to the FBI hoping to put me in jeopardy...."

Trump explains why he didn't like John McCain. It's about more than the dossier.

Also in this clip is the part that I believe is getting the most press: "I gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted, which as president I had to approve. I don't care about this. I didn’t get thank you. That's ok. We sent him on the way, but I wasn't a fan of John McCain." The way....

The NYT fact-checks Trump's speech and doesn't find anything false... though it finds a lot of things "misleading." Like this, about the dossier:
Senator John McCain did obtain a copy of the so-called Steele Dossier, which outlined a range of often salacious but unproven misdeeds by President Trump and his associates — and he did turn it over to the F.B.I. — but this occurred after the 2016 presidential election. The information provided by Christopher Steele, the former British spy who compiled the dossier, had already reached F.B.I. agents investigating Mr. Trump in September, and he met with agents in October.
I find the fact-check misleading. The most important thing I need to know is whether McCain knew the FBI already had the same information, and that's not in the NYT fact-check. Trump's main point has to do with McCain's state of mind, which was to put Trump in jeopardy, so give us what we need to judge the truth of what Trump actually said. Why won't you do that? Fake fact check!!

The NYT fact-check is also misleading in writing "outlined a range of often salacious but unproven misdeeds by President Trump." It should say something like "unproven allegations of misdeeds." It's written as if the NYT means to assert that Trump really did those things, but the dossier didn't prove it. Trump called it "the fake and phony dossier," and the NYT fact-check declines to talk about whether it's "fake and phony," and I have to presume that's because they don't want to say Trump is correct about that. Instead, the Times is still trying to float the idea that these really were "salacious... misdeeds by President Trump." Fake fact check!!

135 comments:

rhhardin said...

Everything McCain ever did was grandstanding. Trump just pointed it out.

Gunner said...

Yay, another reason for Meggy Poo to exhale her verbal poop on The View today.

11 years ago, these same lefty mouthpieces were telling me that John McCain was an awful human being for calling his wife the c-word and using nepotism to advance in the military. Now he is a demigod and should be on Mt. Rushmore because of his patriotic life.

rehajm said...

The NYT fact-check is also misleading in writing...

Evergreen, as Mr. Taranto might say.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

NYT should fact check McCain's last book in which he whitewashes his whole handling of the Dossier, which it just so happens his former aide Kramer admitted shopping it around to media outlets before turning it over to the FBI. McCain had denied this, including in his book and to Trump's face. And you're right it is more than the Dossier because McCain also promised to repeal Obamacare, which many people (including Mick Mulvaney, which our LLR declared a "perfect" guest on Fox News Sunday) heard and it was only when he betrayed everyone at the last moment and voted "nay" that Trump's team realized he had been lying all along.

McCain tarnished his own legacy. But I'd say in the end, his final acts were of a piece with the same judgement he showed as a member of the Keating Five and the Gang of Eight both. He did what was good for John McCain and the Party be damned.

iowan2 said...

And people don't understand President Trumps motivation. This was news in real time. The media know about McCain sending his #1 Lieutenant to Europe to get this phony opo research. Why is a Republican trying to subvert the Republican President of the United States? This is so far from an honest disagreement with President Trump. This is McCain actively spreading lies about the President of the United States. This is not the actions of Hero.
President Trump is using the story as a vehicle to start pealing back the rot in the Deep State. We are learning,(not from the Fake News Media) about the the corruption in the FBI. The Dept of Justice. The CIA, and the State Dept. The transcripts have been released and the Deep State Players are exposed.
IIRC McCain was tipped off by someone in the State Dept, to go to Europe. We know from the transcripts that Bruce Orr and Lisa Page were involved in two way sharing with people from State.

tim maguire said...

This is a great example of why the "fact check" genre enjoys such ill repute. It's partisan politics under the guise of setting the record straight.

Ralph L said...

I didn’t get thank you.

That's truly shameful of all the McCains, from John on down. Considerable federal (and state) tax money was expended.

People magazine gave McCain a full cover photo and spread, President GHWB got a line at the top of the cover.

Henry said...

Is John McCain dead?

Mostly true.

Tank said...

McCain often forgot which team he was on; or, to put it another way, McCain was always on Team McCain. The good he may have done early in his life was vastly overshadowed by the rest of his life, and not in a good way.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

McCain is now CNN's new Adam Schiff(D) or creepy porn lawyer.

JPS said...

I'm in the dwindling band of conservative admirers of John McCain. (rhhardin, everything McCain ever did?)

I do think the president should stop kicking a dead man. It's not a good look for him, it's the wrong thing to do, and I imagine it costs him among people who aren't already on his side.

All that aside, if Jane Mayer of the New Yorker is to be believed (and I take her with a massive crystal of salt), some of McCain's people and maybe McCain himself had this systematized fantasy where, like Goldwater, Rhodes and Scott telling Nixon the game was up, McCain would confront Trump over The Dossier and force his resignation: "The Russians have got you." David Kramer, who's back in the news, denied that, but I could so easily believe it.

McCain was a hero - and a man of enormous vanity. Would he have wanted to be the great patriot who saved the country from a hopelessly compromised president of his own party? (We have a national emergency here, and only I can save us.) Pretty great ending to a long and storied career - as long as it's true. I suspect he wasn't alarmed by the contents of the dossier, he was eager to believe them.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

It's legal for the Clintons to do whatever they need to do - for power and money.
It's illegal to say or dig up any dirt on the Clintons.

traditionalguy said...

The McCain problem has long been the Viet Nam Hero lablel applied to a Navy pilot whom the Navy considered a Traitor for his cooperating ways with the enemy in POW captivity. And later, fellow Congressmen considered McCain to be an anger based traitor walking out on his agreements with them. And he was caught negotiating his price in the Keating Five sting, but walked on it. Also the USS Forrestal disaster was caused by McCain, but he walked. Then he went for big time Clinton bribe money sources as the never ending War on Terror morphed into an industry. The only question was how big would McCain's cut be. It got so bad the Navy refused to speak his name. That name which was a heroic name in the Navy was reserved for his Grand Father and Father.

Finally the Military Tribunal with the goods on him did not let him walk, but sent No Name on his way. Under those circumstances, the President's authorizing a week long state funeral, that was cynically used by the MSM for an attack Trump platform, was a big gift.

Bob Boyd said...

If McCain had supported Trump, the same media that's now clutching their pearls over Trump's less than classy comments, but honest comments would be the ones trashing him posthumously.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

"I find the factchecking misleading."

It's the NYT - all in for the D.

rehajm said...

WaPo surprisingly makes the disclaimer their fact check column is an opinion column, though it's a bit of work to get to it. Does NYT do the same?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Remember when the left called John McCain a Nazi and they trashed his running mate because she had the nerve to criticize lord and savior of the universe - king Obama?

Now McCain is the left's grand hero.

Not that the left are raging hypocrites and selective memory hole assholes. nah.

traditionalguy said...

Remember, there was a real hero of the Revolutionary War that was condemned, and would have been hung if captured, after he was caught selling out his command at Fort West Point which would have destroyed Washington's forces and led to the death of the Rebel leaders. Like McCain, General and hero Benedict Arnold did it for Crown cash.

Mike Sylwester said...

The dossier was a Democrat dirty trick to smear Donald Trump.

As the situation has developed, however, everyone involved in peddling the dossier will suffer some damage to his own reputation. Trump feels confident about that development, and so he is crowing already.

The dossier is similar to the tar baby. Perhaps John McCain's motivations and actions in the situation can be justified, but nevertheless he too grabbed the tar baby. He died with that tar on his hands.

The dossier is perhaps the most despicable political dirty trick in American history. It's something to remember when you think about Hillary Clinton.

Skeptical Voter said...

McCain's grandfather was a true hero--and worked himself literally to death in WW II as a carrier admiral. McCain's father was respected--a submariner in WW II and rose to command of the Pacific Fleet during the Viet Nam war.

There are lots of reasons to respect the McCain family. Senator McCain is not one of those reasons. He was a raving egomaniac and a slippery lying weasel as a politician. He cheated on his first wife and dumped her for a wealthy woman. Other than that he was a prince of a fellow. While one should not speak ill of the dead, one can speak the truth about them.

narciso said...

The democracy initiative is the fusion wurlitzer that feeds the news cycle, came from silicon valley financiers many of whom we know of.

narciso said...

Recall that McCain was behaving like Larry Miller toward Qaddafi, then he turned on a dime.

michaele said...

I remember back in 2008 when the New York Times ran the big expose' on John McCain's supposed affair with a telecom lobbyist, Vicki Iseman. It seemed like such a dirty politics move on McCain and, of course, he and his family denied it and called it a smear. That is one reason that I find his involvement in giving any kind of life to the stupid and slimy Steele Dossier accusations particularly loathsome. He was on the receiving end of (literal) below the belt subject matter. It doesn't say anything good about his character that, as a senior statesman, he would pull a dirty trick on anyone else. Here's a UK Guardian story about it ...https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/22/johnmccain.uselections2008

Bay Area Guy said...

I've lost a lot of respect for McCain. The Steele dossier was a buncha unsourced lies and triple-hearsay tumors from Russians that Steele never met or spoke with. It was designed to injure Trump. Michael Cohen visits Prague?!!? Never happened, but was easy to prove or disprove.

But let's put that aside for now and focus on important policy.

Above all, McCain was an ardent proponent of US military intervention in foreign wars, mostly in the Muslim and Arab world.

How has that worked out?

Browndog said...

The Tea Party movement of 2009 sent a wave of fresh recruits to Washington following the 2010 election. Historic shift.

They were as welcome in Washington as Trump is. The swamp is the swamp.

Republicans: Political purges may work in totalitarian states, but in a democracy they can be self-defeating. The senator who called the Tea Party "wacko birds" should realize the GOP's real enemies are called Democrats.

It's been said that all politics is local, and normally a state party's internal squabbles would not be national news. But when they involve a former presidential candidate on an issue that will affect the selection of the GOP's 2016 presidential nominee and chances, we sit up and take notice.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who lost the 2008 election to Barack Obama and who is running for re-election in 2016, wants to pull the Arizona portion of the grass-roots movement known as the Tea Party out by the roots and purge the ranks of the Arizona GOP of precinct committeemen and local party chairmen aligned to the Tea Party.

Local McCain opponent A.J. LaFaro, who has announced that he will not seek re-election to the Maricopa County GOP chairmanship, has compared the McCain organization's attempted party purge of Tea Party supporters to "ethnic cleansing."




1/02/2015

MB said...

Even if the FBI already had this dossier, they probably needed two independent sources for verification. McCain conveniently pretended to be this (by no means independent) second source.
Also, since the information pretendedly came from a Republican, the FBI would consider themselves safe from bias charges. This became a bi-partisan investigation.
What McCain did was in fact extremely consequential, unlike what the NYTimes fact checkers are trying to imply there.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Hillary Clinton is a walking talking political dirty trick. Everything she does is a calculation for her power or her pocketbook.

And all the D's in CA voted for her. so now - the D's in other state, in total totalitarian fashion, want to force all the smaller populated states to vote just like CA. How do they do this? - they trash The Constitution and remove what JFK knew was brilliant - The Electoral College.

Chuck said...

Althouse I am not at all clear on why it was not always 100% okay for Senator McCain to give the information and any documents that he had, to the FBI. You seem to indicate that if McCain thought that the FBI already had the information, he should not have given them information that was in his possession. I don’t understand your assertion, and I don’t understand how Senator McCain could a priori judge what information the FBI did or didn’t have.

As always, the larger issues are these; first, if Trump delivered clear speeches using precise well-crafted language we might know better how to appraise his truthfulness. (Although Trump would seem to not do well by “clarity.”). Second, Trump’s whole adult life has been lived without any personal humility or self-effacement. He’s a nasty, dishonest asshole who has waded through all of his relationships with lies, name calling and subversion of others. Why would anybody hold out any personal politeness or —yes— civility towards Trump?

narciso said...

Yes the reaction to an attack, is to behave like Donald Sutherland in body snatchers I suspected McCain was being a cigar store Indian but the Jones memo revealed something else.

narciso said...

And as I pointed out in the other thread McCain knew all these people for a longer period, akhmetshin (re kazakhstan) deripasha, klimnik milian probably levchenko.

narciso said...

Levchenko is who the Ukraine state prosecutor is investigating.

wwww said...

Huh - a 5 day story railing against a ghost? A ghost from his own political party? Talking negatively about a funeral 7 months later?

The President should have a 65-70% advantage when running for election. The economy is doing well. Isis defeated. I would expect the President to cruise to reelection under those conditions. Instead, I expect it to be close because he does stuff like this.

wendybar said...

Trump isn't wrong. The media all of a sudden LOVED John McCain because "he felt like they did about President Trump" It wasn't that long ago, that the MSM were saying some of the things President Trump says about McCain...2007 to be exact.

iowan2 said...

The dossier is perhaps the most despicable political dirty trick in American history. It's something to remember when you think about Hillary Clinton.

That statement comes up short, much short of defining what has happened. DOJ, CIA, Justice, and the State Dept are all working in concert to subvert a political campaign.President Obama was informed of, if not directing all the activity. Spying on all the communications of a political campaign. Inserting up to 7 human assets into, or circling close to the Presidential Campaign of President Trump.

Obama
>Spied on reporters
>Directed the IRS to deny conservative groups their proper tax status
>Moved GM bond holders to the bottom of the list of creditors. Changing by fiat centuries of black letter law
>Ran guns to Mexico via Fast and Furious, resulting in one dead Border Agent
>Had an Ambassador running a black ops gambit in Bengahzi, getting the Ambassador and 3 CIA operatives murdered
>Paid off his cronies is green scams like Solyndra. Moving investors to the front of the line of creditors in bankruptcy

Unknown said...

Trump has an almost Bill Clinton level "way of putting it" whereby you can't disagree with him

A Political Skill.

narciso said...

McCain carried their water re interrogations, muzzling the first amendment(mccain/Feingold)
etc etc, he was the easiest mark in the world

Douglas B. Levene said...

I don’t understand the strategic or tactical point of attacking McCain today even if, as seems likely, it’s all true. If the point is to build the narrative that the predicate for the Mueller investigation was b.s., it seems pretty tangential.

M Jordan said...

I agree with Iowan2 that Trump’s motivation for lashing out at McCain now was to begin the process of revealing the rot of the Deep State as it pertains to the Russian collusion lie. We all know Trump doesn’t like getting sucker-punched — he punches back ten times as hard — but that’s not his motivation here in reigniting the Trump/McCain wars. He sees the end of the Mueller investigation in sight, he sees the beginning of the true collusion conspiracy taking shape as Ukraine begins clearing its conscience concerning their role with Hillary, and he is finally going to unveil some of the work of truth warrior Devin Nunes for all to see.

We are at the end of Part 1 of the two-term Trump presidency.

Amadeus 48 said...

Let's cut to the chase on McCain.

He served with great valor and gallantry in Vietnam in unspeakably horrible conditions. He was a Reaganite of the first order, regularly supporting RWR in the military build-up that sank the Soviet Union. Elevated to the Senate, the attitudes and behaviors that kept him going in the prison camp took on a different hue of arrogance, ingratitude, and lack of team play (the Maverick). By the end of his career, he was regularly sucker-punching his friends to the applause of his enemies.
I am glad that Meghan McCain is a loyal daughter, but I was also glad to see her father go. He let me down too often in the Senate.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Why would anybody hold out any personal politeness or —yes— civility towards Trump?

The office he holds would be the best reason to act with civility and politeness. That's how normal humans act regardless of what they think of the other person, or what assumptions about their character you may have. We have manners because it's the right thing to do.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The NYT fact-check is also misleading in writing "outlined a range of often salacious but unproven misdeeds by President Trump." It should say something like "unproven allegations of misdeeds." It's written as if the NYT means to assert that Trump really did those things, but the dossier didn't prove it. Trump called it "the fake and phony dossier," and the NYT fact-check declines to talk about whether it's "fake and phony," and I have to presume that's because they don't want to say Trump is correct about that. Instead, the Times is still trying to float the idea that these really were "salacious... misdeeds by President Trump." Fake fact check!!”

If the NYT can be criticized for appearing to believe the dossier as you suggest, can Trump be criticized for expecting us to believe its all just fake news? I don’t think that the NYT knows whether Trump is “correct about that” therefore didn’t say so. If I had to choose who was more credible...

Michael K said...

McCain lied his way to re-election. If he had campaigned as he behaved after re-election, Kelli Ward would have been the Arizona Senator the last three years. I guess "Bulwark" readers are unhappy about McvCain's lies being publicized.

MayBee said...

I do think the president should stop kicking a dead man. It's not a good look for him, it's the wrong thing to do, and I imagine it costs him among people who aren't already on his side.

I completely agree with this.
McCain bought himself great respect from the press with this action (and the actions of Kramer), so he will be protected against what Trump says about him. It's all fainting freddy "how can you say that about our hero?". Again, I wish Trump wouldn't say it, especially at a defense contractor.
But there is zero press introspection here- what would you do, how would *you* feel if you were being accused of being a russian agent when you ran for president? How would you feel if the press lauded all the people who made up terrible accusations about you? How would anyone feel if they were elected and someone in the government set up a shady, unlimited special investigator?
How would you process the fact that the prior president had likely approved your campaign being wiretapped?

It would drive anyone crazy. And these same press people- had this been done to Obama- would see that.

AustinRoth said...

McCain was a war hero, but a disgrace as a legislator and a human being. Simple as that.

tcrosse said...

Yesterday I watched Ellen (don't ask why) as she had Corey Booker on. Corey, in his mission to spread Peace and Love everywhere, was singing a paean to John McCain, joined by Ellen. They both thought it was such a shame that a Person Who We Won't Name was traducing his memory. This went over well with Ellen's audience of manic women and sprinkling of beta males.

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 8:21 AM
why it was not always 100% okay for Senator McCain to give the information and any documents that he had, to the FBI

Giving the dossier to the FBI certainly was justifiable. Spreading the dossier around to many other people (if he did so) was not so justifiable.

Anyway, McCain too is tarred by the dossier now. His own motivations and actions are being judged. McCain intended rather for Trump's motivations and actions to be judged.

The dossier has poisoned our country's politics thoroughly for more than two years. The originator, Hillary Clinton, almost became the US President.

narciso said...

The rest of the story:
https://amgreatness.com/2019/03/20/mccains-key-role-in-fueling-post-election-trump-russia-hysteria/

robother said...

JFK's gravesite has the Eternal Flame. McCain's should have the Eternal Urinal. Maybe the CinC can make that happen!

Nonapod said...

In Washington politics it used to be that if someone was your political enemey, the traditional thing to do was to never say so clearly in public. You would smile and shake their hand in public all while to working behind the scenes to undermine them.

Trump doesn't work that way. If he hates someone, he lets the world know it. He openly disrespects them. He makes it clear why he hates them.

Trump is often accussed of behaiving like a child for these public attacks. But why is it not equally childish to attack your enemies behind the scenes? To trick them? To stab them in the back? Why is underhanded, closed door subterfuge acceptable while open disagreement is frowned upon?

Clark said...

"Do not speak ill of the dead," should be filed under "civility bullshit."

Big Mike said...

I respected John McCain once. But by the time he died I thought that whomever it was that rescued him from Trúc Bạch Lake hurt the USA more than all the Viet Cong and NVA generals put together.

Sebastian said...

"Fake fact check!!"

Forget it, Ann. It's . . .

Anyway, one day they are evil, the next plain "misleading," then they just smear another GOPer or betray another major secret to hurt the country, and so on and so forth.

Waiting for Althouse to extrapolate from the evil and the fakeness that these people despise her and her values, that they work actively to destroy the kind of culture she wants to live in, that they are her enemies and consider her just as deplorable as the rest of us deplorables.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

If the left want to eat the Dossier and swallow it whole and internalize it as TRUTH! - can they? Will they?

why yes.

MayBee said...

Trump should have said, "Collegiality wise, McCain stepped on my dick"

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Senator John McCain did obtain a copy of the so-called Steele Dossier, which outlined a range of often salacious but unproven misdeeds by President Trump and his associates — and he did turn it over to the F.B.I.

This shit is getting ridiculous. They're not even pretending to actually tell the story.

McCain didn't just magically "obtain" the dossier. He and his close associate David Kramer went to an event in Canada and afterwards had a private meeting with a guy named Andrew Wood. Wood is an associate of Steele, and Wood told McCain and Kramer that he'd heard a bunch of rumors about Trump and Russia, including the "pee tape." McCain was interested!
In McCain's book he says that Kramer then decided to go to London to check it out. In Kramer's sworn deposition he said McCain directed him to go to London and check out the story. Steele, in one of his sworn depositions, also described McCain as using Kramer as a go-between. So: Kramer goes to London and meets with Steele--he obtains a copy of the dossier! [Kramer says Steele told him some of the sources, as well, which undercuts the idea this is legitimate stuff, but we'll skip that.] Kramer gets another copy of the dossier from Simpson (of Fusion GPS). Kramer gives it to McCain. That's how McCain "obtained" it! It wasn't some accident--McCain actively sought it out. Kramer urges McCain to give the info to the FBI and Kramer updates both Steele and Simpson when McCain does that--they stay in contact and continue to work to get the story out and pressure others for an investigation.

It's what happens next that's the good part, though. It's true McCain gives a copy of the dossier to Comey in December. McCain's defenders say "he was doing his duty as an American." Steele and Kramer both say (under oath) something like "we figured the FBI would take it more seriously coming from McCain since it wouldn't look as much like a partisan attack." Nevermind that it in fact WAS a partisan attack...the FBI already had the info so really this was more about McCain pressuring Comey/the FBI to take some action. McCain lent his name and reputation to give the dossier credibility and urge that some action be taken on it. Trump is right to be angry about that!

If that was all that happened it wouldn't be such a big deal. BUT! Kramer then did everything he could to spread the dossier and story around to as many Media outlets as possible. He has testified that he contacted 14 different media outlets to try and spread the story around! Buzzfeed, which actually published the thing (much to the chagrin of Steele, Kramer, and Fusion GPS!) got their copy when Ken Besinger met Kramer in the McCain Institute, was shown the document, and (when Kramer left for a half hour) took pictures on his cell phone.

The plan was to get McCain to push the government to investigate, use the fact of that investigation to lend credence to the dossier's allegations/make it a viable story (not just "here are some unverified rumors" but "here's some rumors the FBI is taking seriously enough to investigate") and get that story spread as widely as possible. The plan only backfired when Buzzfeed, thinking they were helping to harm Trump, published the actual dossier and parts of it were quickly questioned and/or debunked--once people saw how thin and unsupported it was, and understood who was behind it, it failed to work as a weapon.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

McCain and his associate Kramer absolutely took part in a plot to politically harm Trump using the Media and official government power. We know the DOJ used dodgy dossier info as a reason to obtain warrants to surveil Carter Page. It's likely that info was used as a pretext for other official steps, as well.

It's ridiculous to pretend McCain's hands are clean. Trump is correct to be angry. He needs to do a better job of making the case, but the facts on this one are on Trump's side.

Here are some links to articles that actually tell the story. People asking "why is this an issue now" should understand that Kramer's deposition is just now being made public--we are only starting to get the actual facts of this sordid affair! The Media's complete disinterest alone ought to tell you something.

http://metrovoicenews.com/unsealed-testimony-shows-mccain-at-center-of-spygate-scandal/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/14/david-kramer-spread-steele-dossier-around-washingt/

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2019/03/18/new-details-senator-john-mccain-role-trump-dossier-detailed-deposition-david-kramer/3205658002/

https://www.amgreatness.com/2019/03/18/how-a-former-mccain-associate-obtained-the-steele-dossier-and-helped-advance-the-russian-collusion-narrative/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/court-files-reveal-role-of-mccain-aide-in-spreading-anti-trump-dossier

Gunner said...

I also love how McCain's legendary temper and all his Senate colleagues who were "frightened" by the prospect of him becoming President are forgotten. If Trump talked like Keith Olbermann circa 2008, Meghan would probably drop dead from outrage.

Howard said...

Trump is desperation mode level mach 11 because Mueller.

Mike Sylwester said...

HoodlumDoodlum, thanks for your superb comment at 9:57 AM.

Sally327 said...

There is probably no way to know what McCain knew or when he knew it but it seems unlikely that he knew the FBI already had the dossier because what would have been the point of him giving it to the FBI if he knew it was already there?

I know that we're supposed to believe John McCain was a lying weasel who should have been left to die in that North Vietnamese prison camp so he couldn't return and one day annoy Donald Trump with his lying weasel ways but are we also supposed to conclude that he was stupid as well?




Ray - SoCal said...

Trump is destroying another Overton Window - one of where the dead, with rare cases, become Saints, especially us politicians.

McCains image to me now is of a bitter old man. The remaining in office, voting down of the Obamacare repeal, and spreading the dossier.

Feinstein was another that’s office has had a lot of involvement with the Russian allegations.

Deep state indeed...

And very Alinsky on Trumps part.

Force McCain’s supporters to defend the indefensible.



Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Trump is desperation mode level mach 11 because Mueller.”

If Trump was innocent and all of it was untrue, why is he working so hard to discredit Mueller? I think that yes, he’s desperate because he has something to fear.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Forever Mueller Hillary, the un-ending investigation, is a means to an end. The end will not be near because the real damage is the never-ending part of it.

Ralph L said...

See all that Hoodlum wrote, and then the MSM complains that Trump said McCain shopped the dossier before the election.

Mike Sylwester said...

Inga...Allie Oop at 10:15
If Trump was innocent and all of it was untrue, why is he working so hard to discredit Mueller? I think that yes, he’s desperate because he has something to fear.

I too am working hard to discredit Robert "The FBI Whitewasher" Mueller.

Does that mean that I too am guilty and that I too have something to fear?

-----

There's nothing wrong with working to discredit Mueller.

Everyone should join into the holy cause of discrediting Mueller.

Mueller deserves the public's contempt already, because he accepted this position despite his obvious conflicts of interest as the former FBI Director.

narciso said...

She had a Chinese agent on her staff for 20 years, that's chutzpah on steroids

Michael K said...

I would expect the President to cruise to reelection under those conditions. Instead, I expect it to be close because he does stuff like this.

No because half the country has gone insane. Hopefully less than half including illegal alien voters.

The last time we had such hatred for an elected president, it was Lincoln and the Civil War followed.

He also did not win the popular vote.

narciso said...


The other half of the story

https://mobile.twitter.com/dawsonsfield/status/1108390144942501893?s=21

Doodad said...

If you want to hurt Trump yet make it appear like it's bi-partisan, you give a pee tape dossier to a Republican with tumours in his brain who hates the guy who beat him and insulted him. You know what he's gonna do with it and the chaos that will result.

MBunge said...

You know, conservative complaints of media bias used to frequently have at least a kernel of truth to them but it was usually accompanied by at least an equal amount of exaggeration. In other words, the NYT may not have reported the story exactly how conservatives wanted but they generally at least printed the story.

But the media is now living down to ever criticism the Right ever made of them.

Mike

HoodlumDoodlum said...

"McCain didn't give it to the FBI until after the election" is a dumb canard, by the way.
Yes, that's true--Steele & Fusion GPS tried their best to get the story out before the election (to harm Trump) but McCain didn't take part in that. But McCain did allow himself to be used to harm Trump after the election (during, in fact, the crucial transition period) and the people in the DOJ who wanted an excuse/pretext to use the full power of the federal government to "get" Trump, his family, and his associates were all too happy to have someone like McCain to use as cover for doing exactly that.

Strzok, Ohr, etc all wanted to use their power to get Trump. They're happy to harm him by going after his associates and his family. Trump views all of that as improper since it was in large part based on politically-funded, politically-motivated dodgy dossier info...and McCain helped to push that info to the government and Media and helped weaponize that bullshit in ways that put Trump and his people in very real danger (given that federal prosecutors can find something on just about anyone). McCain played a part in that (and his guy Kramer played a huge part in pushing the story to the Media). The fact that those things happened after the election does nothing to diminish their import.

McCain did the bidding of the Democrats, Fusion GPS, and a foreign actor like Steele...there's just no getting around that.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Sally327 said...
There is probably no way to know what McCain knew or when he knew it but it seems unlikely that he knew the FBI already had the dossier because what would have been the point of him giving it to the FBI if he knew it was already there?


McCain probably didn't know the FBI already had it. I'm not sure what that proves. If McCain had ONLY given it to the FBI (and not helped spread it around, allow his close associate to give it to 14 media outlets while using McCain's name and the actual McCain Institute offices, etc) then McCain's explanation of his actions--that he just wanted to do his patriotic duty and wasn't trying to harm Trump politically, etc--would be plausible.

But we know, from the sworn testimony of Kramer & Steele, that McCain's self-serving version of those events (given in his book) aren't accurate. We can reasonably assume McCain was aware of Kramer's efforts and we can be sure McCain knew him giving the info to Comey would pressure the FBI to take some action.

McCain hated Trump. He had pretty good reason to! McCain's actions have to be understood in that context. I know McCain's book says he just did the right thing for the right reasons (and doesn't mention all the other shady shit he and his associates did) but there's no reason for us to take that as gospel and refuse to accept reality in the name of not thinking badly of McCain.

Amadeus 48 said...

Mueller is stuck with his own behavior over the years and James Comey. Often, an aggressive, moralistic prosecutor is the enemy of both justice and peace. Cue the tape of Mueller: the Boston Years. Just because the bureaucrats and power junkies at the DOJ headquarters love someone doesn't mean that that person should have discretionary power.

James Comey is a serious candidate for Worst Public Servant of His Generation. He not only screwed up HRC's campaign, he has done his best to chase Trump out of office., and he certainly has cast a shadow over our government. Who the heck elected James Comey? He is just an over-promoted bureaucratic operator who got his buddy Mueller appointed Javert to pursue DJT.

The two scariest words in the English language are "career prosecutor". Such people get twisted. Everybody is guilty of something. They just haven't been processed yet.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Trump is desperation mode level mach 11 because Mueller.”

If Trump was innocent and all of it was untrue, why is he working so hard to discredit Mueller? I think that yes, he’s desperate because he has something to fear.


Yeah, why would an innocent person be angry or indignant when they're accused of crimes and under threat of having themselves, their family, and their associates be prosecuted (including for many things which have nothing at all to do with the crimes they're erroneously accused of)?

You're kidding, right? "Why would an innocent person be so angry about being falsely accused?!" That's silly. You're smarter than that--let's not be so silly.

Federal prosecutors can wreck your life. It's the whole "3 felonies a day" thing--once they start looking and start using their power they can and will find some reason to put you in a cell (or bankrupt you, or both). Being investigated and being under that threat is itself a big punishment--the point here is McCain helped political actors on the Left put Trump under that threat.

Chuck said...

I’m lmfao over the notion that it was dirty politics for McCain to send out an investigator to check on Trump.

Does sending out investigators sound at all familiar?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Blckpwk1voQ

At least McCain never embarrassed himself with laughable lies about it.

Achilles said...

People need to stop pretending McCain and Trump are in the same party.

McCain hated Republican voters. He was a leader of the no borders no wall no USA at party.

Trumpit said...

The main reason, I think, that it is usually wrong and unsavory to "speak ill of the dead" is because a dead person can't defend his, or her reputation. I don't need a mean-spirited history lesson from the likes of Trump, a man with a perpetual chip on his shoulder. Trump has made so many enemies in politics and business that it makes Nixon's Enemies List pale in comparison. I'm surprised that people didn't boo and head for the exits when Trump began his tirade against the late Senator John McCain. The worst Trump toady in today's Republican party is Sen. Lindsey Graham. He was supposedly a good friend of McCain's. I wonder what he thought of Trump's fulminating requiem of McCain? Boo, hiss (repeat).

Yancey Ward said...

"It's written as if the NYT means to assert that Trump really did those things, but the dossier didn't prove it."

Water is wet, the sky is blue, and puppies are cute.

Anonymous said...

John McCain was a Vietnam war hero.

He was also a petty, mean, irascible, vindictive, spiteful, humorless politician who would sacrifice his principles to those instincts even to the harm of his Country. Evidence continues to accumulate that he was complicit in a conspiracy that attempted to overthrow a duly elected President.

And that will be his legacy.

Yancey Ward said...

The dossier was given to Kramer and McCain because Simpson and Steele were having trouble getting the media outlets to write stories about it prior to the election. What is missed here is that all the media outlets knew the story, if it hit before the election, would likely backfire on the Clinton Campaign- it was that salacious and unsupported. It is also very likely that all the media outlets knew who was peddling it- for example, if you had brought me this document, my very first thought would be to ask who is paying you to bring it to me, and my first assumption would be it was the Clinton Campaign if you refused to answer my first question. Glenn Simpson attempted to solve this origination problem by giving it to Trump's biggest Republican opponent and getting McCain to go to the media. Apparently, though, this failed because Simpson and Steele had already poisoned the ground with their previous shopping attempts.

suthie58 said...

Politicians all suck.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Chuck said...
Althouse I am not at all clear on why it was not always 100% okay for Senator McCain to give the information and any documents that he had, to the FBI.


If that was all that happened it wouldn't be a big deal. McCain's book asserts that's all that happened. McCain's defenders are arguing (by omitting other facts) that's all that happened.

The problem, my LifeLongRepublican chum, is that we know that's not all that happened. The sworn depositions of Steele and Kramer prove that's not all that happened. The testimony and accounts of several journalists prove that's not all that happened. It's simply not possible to truthfully assert that's all that happened. Kramer, naturally, pled the 5th and refused to testify in front of Congress...but he was deposed in a libel lawsuit related to the dodgy Steele dossier and that deposition was recently released. That, in turn, has kicked off commentary and is probably behind Trump's renewed attacks on McCain.

Since all of this is public information and widely known (I already gave several links to some stories but there are many more--although for some reason the NYTimes has been quiet on the topic) it seems fair to draw some conclusions. People who continue to assert that "McCain happened to get the dossier and passed it along to the proper authorities" is the whole of the story, or even the most important/salient part of the story, is either ignorant or being disingenuous. I've done what I can to help with the ignorance...

Martin said...

As usual, Trump is right on the important part.

McCain was truly heroic while imprisoned in Hanoi, and no one can ever take that away from him.

His later public life was a mixed bag, but on the big stuff he was morally questionable, and by "questionable" I mean corrupt (Keating Fine), ego-driven, and often nasty. His actions with the Steele dossier and screwing the GOP on the Obamacare vote were pure pique at Trump riffing on the old line (was it from Chris Rock?) about McCain having been captured.

I suppose McCain was temperamentally suited to be a naval aviator, but he was NOT a statesman.

I wonder who had/has the thinner skin and less ego control, Trump or McCain? The answer is NOT obvious.

Sally327 said...

"He was also a petty, mean, irascible, vindictive, spiteful, humorless politician who would sacrifice his principles to those instincts even to the harm of his Country. Evidence continues to accumulate that he was complicit in a conspiracy that attempted to overthrow a duly elected President.

And that will be his legacy."

Granted Trump IS all of this and more but I think it might be a stretch to claim he was trying to overthrow Obama with all that birther nonsense.

readering said...

Remind me again why POTUS went to Lima?

tcrosse said...

John McCain was a Vietnam war hero.

Naval aviators at the time credited him as a North Vietnamese ace.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Nice TDDS use of ellipses. Contrast:

‘Instead, the Times is still trying to float the idea that these were “salacious ... misdeeds by President Trump.”’

With:

‘Instead, the Times is still trying to float the idea that these were “... unproven misdeeds by President Trump.”’

I call reverse fact check fakery. But you missed the more obvious fakery as it relates to the Times’s point on timing that they make so clearly with regard to what McCain did and when he did it. The often salacious but unproven misdeeds were by “Candidate Trump” not “President Trump.”

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Chuck said...I’m lmfao over the notion that it was dirty politics for McCain to send out an investigator to check on Trump.

Is it dirty politics to try and dig up salacious rumors about a political opponent? It's dirty, but maybe ok. Is it dirty politics to push those unverified rumors to government officials, press them to investigate, and then use the fact of that investigation to lend credence to the unverified rumors (and place your political opponents in legal jeopardy due to the investigation)? Maybe, maybe.

But Chuck old buddy: can you or anyone else honestly argue that it's anything other than dirty politics to intentionally spread salacious, unverified rumors (of extreme nature(s)) on your political opponent to more than a dozen Media outlets with the intention of smearing that person as broadly and harmfully as possible?? That's, like, definitionally dirty politics. We know for a fact Kramer did exactly that--using McCain's name, McCain's reputation, and the actual McCain Institute infrastructure to do that. We know Kramer acted at McCain's direction to gather the data...and it's almost impossible to argue that McCain had no knowledge of or input into Kramer then spreading that info around.

McCain acted in a dirty way. His close associates did some dirty things and those things correctly taint McCain. The only way to conclude otherwise is to ignore the facts we now know.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Trump is desperation mode level mach 11 because Mueller.

This made me laugh out loud. Sure, Howard. Meanwhile your side is leaving flop-sweat trails through Iowa because nothing they try (reparations, UBI, white supremacy) is moving the African-American vote back to where it used to be, and with that loyalty goes any electability for Democrats.

Unless they can game the electoral college. Or pack the Supreme Court. Of course those two plans do NOT reek of desperation...right? LOL

HoodlumDoodlum said...

By the way, to address another point of the charade McCain defenders are playing: did the people involved (Steele, Kramer, McCain) think the dossier info was probably genuine and should be treated as important secrets? That's McCain's line--he was shocked and worried and so he had no choice but to turn that over to the FBI--it was his duty. Kramer's deposition says he made sure to tell McCain several times that the info should be treated as rumor only.

But we know Steele shopped the info around to tons of Media outlets himself (David Corn and one other journalist made reference to those rumors prior to the election). According to Kramer's deposition Steele reveled the names of 5 sources of dossier info to Kramer--a seasoned spy like Steele would know what a huge opsec breach/security risk showing a civilian like Kramer the actual sources of his super-secret and dangerous info. Kramer, as well, treated the documents he wants us to believe were secret, important, and dangerous (given, of course, Putin's penchant for killing spies/leakers) very casually--he allowed the Buzzfeed reporter to take cell phone pictures of the unredacted physical documents, which 100% burned "sources!"

We have no indications Kramer acted without McCain's knowledge or approval. We know Steele and Kramer cared more about pushing the story to the Media than they did protecting sources. If these guys thought the info was likely true and was as important as they want to argue it was/is they acted with incredible irresponsibility towards the sources of that info.

Again: if all that happened was McCain secretly gathered the info and gave it to Comey there wouldn't be a big deal. But that's not all that happened...and the other things that happened are what are at issue and what make McCain and his associates look bad.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

McCain promised to be a strong conservative but almost always wimped out. He broke a shit pile of promises to his own constituents over his many years lording over that seat.

His family also turned his funeral into an anti-Trump extravaganza.

Pathetic.

rehajm said...

His family also turned his funeral into an anti-Trump extravaganza.

It's what he would have wanted.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

McCain, as a politician, was an asshole (especially towards the end of his career).
Trump, as a politician, is a major league asshole.

Both of those things are true.

It's usually bad form to politicize a person's funeral and/or use that occasion to take political pot shots at opponents.
It's usually wrong to mock or belittle someone's funeral/passing and to make petty insults about someone who has recently died.

Both of those things are true!

McCain had good reason to dislike Trump. Trump has good reason to dislike McCain and blame McCain for dirty political attacks McCain and his associates carried out.

This stuff doesn't seem too difficult to me. I voted for McCain! He wasn't a saint and a fair accounting of the ways he wasn't a saint should not be out of bounds. Trump, as usual, is going about that accounting in a stupid, vulgar, and likely-self defeating way...but that doesn't mean he's 100% wrong.

Yancey Ward said...

Trump is wrong to focus on McCain, Hoodlum, that much is true. The man is dead, and will still be dead tomorrow. Trump needs to train his fire on his living enemies- anything else is a waste of time.

pacwest said...

To keep up the Trump must have done something wrong is why he is attacking the Mueller investigation line of reasoning, one has to make the assumption that the investigation is on the up and up. I think that any rational person would have to double check that assumption given Mueller's record, and present facts.

Trump was elected to tear down the established way of doing business in government (McCain personified it), and appears to be making inroads, but if he succeeds it will have to be replaced by someting else.

Enter the AOCs that represent the indoctrinated youth. We're screwed.

exhelodrvr1 said...

McCain's actions while a POW made him one of my heroes while I was growing up. But some of his actions as a Senator, in particular over the past few years, are close to unforgivable. And I say that as a USNA grad and retired Naval Aviator. I don't have a problem with Trump's comments - someone needs to make sure that everyone is aware of McCain's complicity in this, because it speaks very clearly to how deep the rot goes, and the media is afraid to touch it.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Trump is wrong to focus on McCain, Hoodlum, that much is true. The man is dead, and will still be dead tomorrow. Trump needs to train his fire on his living enemies- anything else is a waste of time.

I think he is indirectly keeping Kramer in the news, using McCain as a foil or stand-in for Kramer's actions with the dossier, since Kramer testified under oath that McCain "directed" him to spread that shit around. Trump does need to constantly remind people that the origin of this whole Russia conspiracy nonsense was the Clinton campaign and her LLR allies. Further, the McCain flap has caused certain swamp creatures to emerge from the slime to "defend" McCain, thereby again illustrating for us conservative voters in the heartlands that the DC establishment R guys don't give a shit about us, the same way McCain demonstrated it by lying when he promised "I'll build your damn wall" in '08 and damning all the Tea Party movement as "wacko birds" in '10 and beyond. McCain sounds just like the other LLR country club bastards that think they run the party. Their only saving grace is they aren't as batshit crazy as the other side so we have to vote for them until a viable third party is established. Which won't happen.

Trump keeps making them surface. I hope their constituents notice.

iowan2 said...

If Trump was innocent and all of it was untrue, why is he working so hard to discredit Mueller? I think that yes, he’s desperate because he has something to fear.

What is President Trump supposed to do? Obama mobilized at least 4 different Executive Branch agencies to overturn an election. The most powerful person on the planet is just supposed to put himself out prostrate in front of the mob and do nothing?
Mueller? If he were were as honorable as his PR firm claims, he would have scuttled the Special Counsel Counter Intelligence Investigation, when the truth came out early, that zero evidence existed to launch one.
I asked a couple of weeks ago to identify just a single thing that would warrant launching such an investigation, and the best offered was the DNC e mail hack. An event that Zero evidence exist that would be allowed in a court of law. That was the best of all the supposed crimes of President Trump. The e mail thing doesn't even make it out of the starting gate.

No. He his going to defend himself. It is plain no one else has the stomach for truth.

iowan2 said...

I’m lmfao over the notion that it was dirty politics for McCain to send out an investigator to check on Trump.

No investigator involved. McCain sent his henchman to pick up dirt on the President Elect.
Dirt that was never corroborated. And he turned over to the FBI...after he shopped it to a dozen media outlets.They all refused because no corroboration existed. Nothing but a smear to take down the President Elect.

Hmm, willing to smear the President with lies...That sounds vaguely familiar to me.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Mike said...I think he is indirectly keeping Kramer in the news, using McCain as a foil or stand-in for Kramer's actions with the dossier, since Kramer testified under oath that McCain "directed" him to spread that shit around.

Well to be clear Kramer has testified that McCain directed him to go gather/verify the rumors and then to give the dossier to a couple of government officials--as far as I know Kramer hasn't said/admitted that McCain told him to spread the documents and story to the 14 or so Media contacts Kramer eventually did.
I think it's fair to assume McCain at least knew that was going on and people who keep arguing "but McCain didn't give it to a reporter (as far as we know)" aren't arguing in good faith, but in terms of what we can prove (w/r/t sworn depositions) we can't currently prove McCain directed Kramer to give the dodgy dossier to reporters.

It's something Kramer should be asked, of course, but like Steele he asserted his 5th amendment rights and refused to give testimony to Congress.

Howard said...

Javanka facing money laundering and foreign agent indictment makes Bone Spurs mad, so he picks on a disabled veteran who can't fight back: the definition of a cunt.

Sam L. said...

"The NYT fact-check is also misleading..." Of course it is; it's how the NYT rolls!

Michael K said...

At least McCain never embarrassed himself with laughable lies about it.

No, he saved those for his election promises.

Jim at said...

You're kidding, right? "Why would an innocent person be so angry about being falsely accused?!" That's silly. You're smarter than that--let's not be so silly.

No. She isn't.
The same crap was pulled during the Kavanaugh hearings.

Kavanaugh smeared. Kavanaugh gets angry while defending himself.

"Not fit to serve!!!!"

It's dumb, tedious and entirely predictable.

YoungHegelian said...

Left out of the list of sins of John McCain that I see in the comments above at of this writing (3:31PM EDT) is the horrible way both he & his campaign treated Sarah Palin during & after the election.

Liberals tend to forgive McCain saying that Palin was a goof. Well, Palin was a "goof" that McCain & his campaign chose of their own free will. It wasn't as if Palin was holding Meghan hostage at an unknown location. As a naval officer, McCain knew that what mistakes happened in his chain of command were his mistakes, no matter who made them. He promptly forgot any notions of an officer's honor & duty right after the election, when scumbags like Steven Schmidt, another "mistake" that McCain brought into his campaign, promptly started to slash Palin to every media outlet he could, loyalty be damned. What did McCain do about it? Absolutely nothing.

The reason the Republican President Trump gets by with slashing McCain is because, by the time he died, McCain had few supporters left on the Right side of the political aisle. For me, that estrangement came with his treatment of Palin.

traditionalguy said...

Perhaps it is true that Trump appointed Mueller to perform as a 2 year shiny object to lead the doofus media astray and looking like fools while the Utah US Attorney finished the 85,000 indictments. All Mueller was allwed to do was watch over the Clinton allied Attorneys and use them to indict Trump connected witnesses of Hillary's crimes and depose them under their plea deal disclosure in their cases to create the needed written estimonisl evidence to admit at the Tribunals for Traitors to be held at the renovated Gitmo.

Trump is a movie producer extrodinaire.

narciso said...

no he did worse than nothing, he followed the jones memo, that absolved him of responsibility, in the election, making off garbage about palin, who admittedly was naïve, but had the right instincts was the second part,

Achilles said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Trump is desperation mode level mach 11 because Mueller.”

If Trump was innocent and all of it was untrue, why is he working so hard to discredit Mueller? I think that yes, he’s desperate because he has something to fear.

Manafort was a standard DC grifter. He did nothing different than any of the other DC grifters.

Then he worked for Trump. Now he is going to jail.

These people are stalinists. Period.

I will never submit to a government they control.

They are evil people.

readering said...

So now 2008 campaign manager Rick Davis's public thank-you remarks after the funeral being rebroadcast. Like George Conway says . . . .

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“You're kidding, right? "Why would an innocent person be so angry about being falsely accused?!" That's silly. You're smarter than that--let's not be so silly.”- Comment to Inga

No. She isn't.-Jim at

Are you allowing insults once again? Can everyone engage in insulting one another again? What happened to the new commenting policy?

Linda said...

To quote a tweet by Rep Dan Crenshaw
Mr. President, seriously stop talking about Senator McCain.

There is really no reason to talk about him when there are sooooo many other topics. I really wish he would stop!

exhelodrvr1 said...

BTW, Ann, how are your eyes doing?

hstad said...


Blogger Gunner said...
Yay, another reason for Meggy Poo to exhale her verbal poop on The View today.

11 years ago, these same lefty mouthpieces were telling me that John McCain was an awful human being for calling his wife the c-word and using nepotism to advance in the military. Now he is a demigod and should be on Mt. Rushmore because of his patriotic life.

3/21/19, 7:25 AM

I agree 100%! McCain was a crook and con artist. Most people forget about his Keating scandal of the 1980s. Here you go: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/mccain-the-most-reprehensible-of-the-keating-five-6431838


Jim at said...

Are you allowing insults once again?

If one doesn't want to be 'insulted' by someone pointing out an absurd position, maybe one shouldn't take that absurd position in the first place.

rcocean said...

The defense of McCain by some Republican Senators just shows how out of touch they are. Trump just didn't wake up and call McCain an Asshole.

Trump's drawing attention to to the testimony of McCain's aide that was leaked recently. We now know that McCain ( through his right-hand man) was not only giving the Lying Dossier to Comey, he was peddling it around town, giving copies to selected Senators and Congressman AND his aide was telling Fusion GPS about his discussion with Comey. McCain was in on the whole silent coup. This was AFTER - he asked Trump to endorse him - which Trump.

But all these Republican Senators act like this doesn't exist. So, they jabber about what a patriotic (really which country?), warm, public servant McCain was. Someone, even called him "Honest". Honest about what? Being for Obamacare? Being against Amnesty? Being a "Conservative"? The whole reaction to this, shows the fault line between the DC Republican elite and the Republican base.

rcocean said...

And that whole "Thou Shalt not speak ill of the Dead" - Yeah, sure. That's why Democrats have never said a bad word about Thurmond or Nixon for 25 years, and will serenade George W. Bush with compliments when he dies.

rcocean said...

Limbaugh has a nice take on the whole situation, although he always hits soft. I suppose he has a guilty conscience over supporting McCain in 2008. But then, that's why he's been on the air for over 30 years. He rarely attacks other Republicans. And he's always supported the Republican nominees or at least refrained from attacking them.

rcocean said...

Since people are bringing up Palin - let me say this about that. Despite McCain's aides sabotaging her during the election and trashing her AFTER the election, Palin never said a bad word about him in public. When Conservatives wanted McCain's Scalp in 2010, Palin endorsed him. When McCain dissed her in his book and stated his biggest regret was not choosing Liebermann, she responded in a classy, friendly manner.

Her reward? Being snubbed and not invited to the Funeral. McCain was a complete shithead.

Lydia said...

There truly must something wrong with the man that he just won't let up, even with stuff like this from military veterans:

Veterans’ groups expressed outrage over Trump’s continued attacks on McCain, a naval aviator who spent more than five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam.

Vietnam Veterans of America National President John Rowan said in a statement Thursday his group is “chagrined” that Trump will not “let a fellow Vietnam veteran rest in peace.”

“This entire dustup is disgraceful, it’s deplorable and it’s destructive,” Paul Rieckhoff, founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, said on CNN. “It's bad for our military and veterans community and it’s bad for Donald Trump. This doesn’t help him. I can’t imagine who would support this position, continuing to attack a war hero.”

n.n said...

NYT reports in close associations, with nuance and creativity, which could plausibly indemnify them from prosecution.

narciso said...

Ah riekhoff sandbagging us in Iraq auditioning as the John Kerry for that era, he wasnt as bad as Jon solz and Nathaniel Freedman of votevets, the latter whitewashed the whole va scandal for years.

Narayanan said...

Blackmail material can be used to hold **victim** in thrall only if it's secret.

McCain if he believed dossier and had any decency of character could have shown to Trump and decoupling him from Putin.

He didn't do that which is major character flaw in my book.

Big Mike said...

I don’t believe in “my party, right or wrong,” but when ones runs — hard! — on opposition to Obamacare, then casts the deciding vote to keep Obamacare in place, then “despicable” is too kind of a description.

rcocean said...

Y'know who loves John McCain in 2019?

Liberals. Democrats. Who voted against him in 2008. And hated his opposition to Gays in the military. Do you liberals EVER have any fucking shame?

McCain never met a war, an illegal alien, or a New York Times reporter he didn't support. Or a Conservative Republican that he liked.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“If one doesn't want to be 'insulted' by someone pointing out an absurd position, maybe one shouldn't take that absurd position in the first place.”

Only an absurd person would consider the position absurd. If commenters are now getting away with personally insulting other commenters, I’ll join the party.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“There truly must something wrong with the man that he just won't let up, even with stuff like this from military veterans...”

It’s a sad state if affairs that Trump supporters still support him despite his escalating bizarre behavior. Makes ne wonder if there is a breaking point.

effinayright said...

Howard said...
Javanka facing money laundering and foreign agent indictment makes Bone Spurs mad, so he picks on a disabled veteran who can't fight back: the definition of a cunt.
****************

Couldn't fight back? You mean, spreading that bullshit dossier around wasn't fighting back? You mean reneging on promises to vote to repeal Obamacare, and instead giving an imperious thumbs down on the Senate floor to sink that repeal....that wasn't fighting back?

(And it's Ivanka, and no she didn't get indicted for money laundering or being a foreign agent. Other than that...you're right on target!! /snark

Drago said...

"There truly must something wrong with the man that he just won't let up, even with stuff like this from military veterans:"

The veterans groups referenced that criticized Trump include the "Vietnam Veterans of America".

Shocker.

That would be the Veterans group that John Kerry helped to found.

Gee, I wonder where they come down ideologically?

Sorry Lydia, I don't care what the lefties have to say in support of their fantastic left-wing policy ally McCain.

Darrell said...

McCain's actions in the last quarter of his life give credence to POW's claims of betrayal by McCain. I wouldn't stop anyone from pissing on his grave.

Drago said...

"Only an absurd person would consider the position absurd."

Note to self: Lefties think that accusing someone of collusion when that person was never charged with collusion much less convicted is not "absurd".

Discuss.

narciso said...

Its was ideological:

https://babalublog.com/2013/06/27/love-triangle-ernest-hemingway-herbert-matthews-fidel-castro/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR3rtCYXa5Ir2WM_Hn354NZJQCLKqBn9CMNsMtVM2qrolFRLRPoeJCtgBMc

rcocean said...

Why doesn't anyone call John Kerry a "War Hero"? Why can we mock Lurch on a Sailboard John "Fucking" Kerry - but not Johnny McCain? The man was in Vietnam - on a boat. He was in Combat. He was wounded - 1 or 2 times (depending on who you read). He won medals - that he threw over a fence (or maybe didn't).

But anyway, he was a "War Hero" but we can criticize him. But not McCain. Why? Strom Thurmond parachuted into Normandy on D-Day at the age of 40. Why were we able to criticize him? He was a war hero!

Howard said...

Blogger wholelottasplainin' said...

Howard said...
Javanka facing money laundering and foreign agent indictment makes Bone Spurs mad, so he picks on a disabled veteran who can't fight back: the definition of a cunt.
****************

Couldn't fight back? You mean, spreading that bullshit dossier around wasn't fighting back? You mean reneging on promises to vote to repeal Obamacare, and instead giving an imperious thumbs down on the Senate floor to sink that repeal....that wasn't fighting back?

(And it's Ivanka, and no she didn't get indicted for money laundering or being a foreign agent. Other than that...you're right on target!! /snark


Hi Lucy

You claim John McCain fights back from the grave! Obviously not something a cuck could do.

Javanka is a contraction of Jared and Ivanka.

narciso said...

John Kerry was and all will be a traitor Vietnam Nicaragua Iraq that's why, Thurmond on the other hand was a staunch patriot who had some bad judgement calls on pragmatic reasons

Gk1 said...

Meh, so President Sore Winner wants to drag Hector's body around Troy a few times. I think what people are missing is the fact Trump is fumigating the republican party. It's no longer a safe home for turncoats and phony dossier spreaders. He just giving the rest of the traitors a taste for what's to come. If he's not pulling punches with a dead "hero" what do you think he's going to do to the rest of you?