"... as happens when they overhear for the first time a beautiful woman’s undiluted, full-strength opinion of their masculine selves."
That's my second-to-last quote from "The Bonfire of the Vanities," which some of you have been reading along with me.
The "he" is the prosecutor Kramer, and the woman is Maria, whose recorded voice he's hearing. She calls him "a pompous little bastard" and "a creep."
I like the idea of an ego losing its virginity. And then there's the notion that a woman's opinion can rape a man's ego. Is the male ego so weak or is the undiluted, full-strength opinion of a beautiful woman exceedingly strong?
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68 comments:
Is the male ego so weak ...
In some men, yes. In others, not hardly. I'm in the "not hardly."
There is not enough milk of human kindness in the world.
Vocal ego raping by a beautiful woman is always best answered with an outcome independent Bruce Willis "smirk". It's fucking bulletproof.
"Is the male ego so weak or is the undiluted, full-strength opinion of a beautiful woman exceedingly strong?"
It depends.
And what about a not so beautiful woman's opinion? Is that not valued as highly as that of a beautiful woman?
It seems unfortunate to equate losing one's virginity with an assault, an unpleasant experience that leaves one damaged. Don't let The Bachelor hear this.
And what about a not so beautiful woman's opinion?
It's worse for the male ego if the woman is unattractive.
No it isn't. Easier to rationalize it away as resentment.
This is the kind of BS blather I consider - to sorta-quote a Nobel prize winner - 'below my pay grade':
......"I like the idea of an ego losing its virginity. And then there's the notion that a woman's opinion can rape a man's ego. Is the male ego so weak or is the undiluted, full-strength opinion of a beautiful woman exceedingly strong?
"And then there's the notion that a woman's opinion can rape a man's ego. Is the male ego so weak or is the undiluted, full-strength opinion of a beautiful woman exceedingly strong?"
The problem is that some men's egos dress so provocative that the womens' opinions can't help themselves. It's natural. What did you expect to happen putting yourself out there like that?
another example of the great white defendant:
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/03/masterpiece-cakeshop-wins-again-colorado-drops-prosecution-for-refusal-to-bake-gender-transition-cake/
That sentence calls to mind John Irving's criticism of Wolfe: "[sometimes] it makes you wince."
John Irving? Boring.
I'm disappointed in the dropping of the cases about the cake baker. I think he had an excellent chance at winning both the state case against him and his federal case. He was clearly being targeted and harassed by Colorado state officials and some individuals who were clearly discriminating against him for his religion. He should have kept fighting. He would have won it all.
I'm unenthusiastically slogging my way thru Bonfire, and isn't "Kramer" the character who was always trying to inflate his neck? I seem to remember doing something like that when I was in high-school.
"Ego losing its virginity" is a cute phrase, but I get tired of Wolfe using internal dialogs to project his own insecurities onto nearly all his characters. Fop.
Boring? I don't know. I really enjoyed his books when I was in high school. Less so later in life, when I tried rereading Cider House Rules after seeing the film--so much better when I was young. Wolfe, OTOH, I didn't understand at all at that age. Even as a somewhat precocious high-schooler, I got very little of Bonfire.
Irving wrote terrific young adult fiction, fully of whimsy.
Doubt I've ever enjoyed a sentence that included the word "pangs."
Interview with the last dragon slayer
Excerpt…
Reporter Kim Weaver: Why are you called the last dragon slayer? Are there no more dragons to slay?
The Last Dragon Slayer: Oh, there are dragons, still.
RKW: Is no one then going to be able to slay them?
TLDS: Dragons will be slayed, yet. Though not as often as one might think, and not nearly as often as potential dragon slayers might wish. But mostly there will be few people able to slay a dragon. Mostly it will be done by someone else.
RKW: So if you are not the last dragon slayer, then why do you call yourself the last dragon slayer?
TLDS: I don’t call myself the last dragon slayer. It’s a marketing thing, probably dreamed up by my publicist.
RKW: But you don’t seem to mind the title.
TLDS: It’s a convenient nom de plume. It has its perks.
RKW: Such as…?
TLDS: How likely would you be to interview someone called Bob? How likely would your readers read an interview of someone called Bob?
RKW: Good point. Is your name Bob?
TLDS: No.
RKW: Can I call you Bob?
TLDS: In as much as it would facilitate conversation, I don’t mind. Saying “So, Mr. Slayer, uh, can I call you the last?” is rather cumbersome.
RKW: Very True. Any other reasons for the name?
TLDS: In as much as a man’s sense of worth precipitates significantly from his perception of the perception that females have of him, the last dragon slayer carries with it significantly more cachet than does, say…Bob.
RKW: perception of the perception?
TLDS: Quite.
almost all alpha and sigma males consider all women, with perhaps one or two exceptions, perhaps a beloved gramma or their beloved mother, to be crazy and therefore their ego is at as much danger from the criticisms of a bitter woman as my ego, or your ego, is from the criticisms and dirty looks of some homeless dude who looks at us with disdain when we offer coins instead of bills to their begging requests
pray for homeless people, by the way, the lives of homeless people and the lives of nations are often saved or improved by prayer
and nobody cares what males who are not alpha or sigma think about women, trust me
just as Freud, on an off day, started ranting about how nobody understands what women want when he really meant to say nobody understands what attractive women want
trust me Freud, as hard working of a little guy as he was, spent very little time being concerned about what unattractive women want.
Life is hard unless you understand the revelations of Christian faith and know that each of us is infinitely valuable in the eyes of God.
it makes you wonder what side she is on:
https://dailycaller.com/2019/03/05/jpmorgan-chase-private-prisons/
that one unlike the panther salute, didn't strike as particularly memorable
did Weissman start out as a new York prosecutor:
http://thefederalist.com/2019/03/05/explosive-new-documents-reveal-andrew-weissmanns-misconduct-enron-case/
Yes, Professor. Strong men really do believe that beautiful women appreciate all of the good deeds strong men do provide for them. The Bonfire of the Egos. And then we usually respond with the Jewish Carpenter's thought, " Forgive them Father. They know not what they do."
"And what about a not so beautiful woman's opinion? Is that not valued as highly as that of a beautiful woman?"
No it isn't, because a not so beautiful woman is, ceteris paribus, less of a prize in the contest of life.
Granted, a healthy male should be entirely armored with rejection-calluses by the time he is, perhaps, 18 or so.
"And then there's the notion that a woman's opinion can rape a man's ego"
Cuz loss of virginity equals rape?
Usually the women in my long ago life were too busy participating enthusiasticly to be critics. At least that’s the way I remember it. They were all beautiful as well.
Just finished the book a few minutes ago. A few, relatively short, boring patches but the book was as good as I had remembered. Which is very good.
I rather liked Tommy, the Irish donkey, Killian. One of the few likeable characters in the book in my opinion.
A Yale Law grad, no less. Asked how he found Yale:
"“It was okay. Nobody there knew what the fuck I was talking about.” Tawkin. “You might as well be from Afghanistan as Sunnyside, Queens. But I liked it. It’s a nice place. It’s easy, as law schools go. They don’t try to bury you in details. They give you the scholarly view, the overview. You get the grand design. They’re very good at giving you that. Yale is terrific for anything you wanna do, so long as it don’t involve people with sneakers, guns, dope, lust, or sloth.”"
For some reason it made me think of Louis Prima:
"I read a little [musical notation] but not enough to hurt me none."
John Henry
Actually my male ego got thoroughly punctured when the cutest girl in 7th grade wouldn’t kiss me. After that it was seduce ... seduce .... seduce.
Only female virginity makes any difference.
On courtship, the guy wants to be her first, the girl wants to be his last.
Only a Nazi compares virginity to thought.
The disparate impact is clear for all to see: Why does Althouse attract so many whites?
In a diverse America, including myself unconditionally, why are/do so many whites here?
It's too much.
Needs to be less whites.
If this authors' authors whould have spent a moment's, time, they would have thought about it more.
Sounds like writing by the type of guy to where a bow tie or white suit.
LOL.
We knew school: we don't take you olds seriously!!!!
Guildofcannonballs, my poor young friend,
God loves us all.
How silly of you to try and be rude to people because of their level of melatonin!!!
LOL
LOL
LOL
rhhardin
trust me very few people understand what men and women want
I understand but nobody asked me to explain so I won't
but I can say this
you got it wrong my young friend
Maria ruskin lives by her wits instinct over intellect which the likes of McCoy say they prize but ultimately that's not so
Kramer was a creep. I really enjoyed this whole scene with the playing of the tape for the judge. This is a great example of a case where "doing the right thing" (exposing Maria's lie) is a clear violation of the ethical rules—unless you take a very broad view of the scope provisions of the Rules of Professional Conduct. "The Rules do not . . . exhaust the moral and ethical considerations that should inform a lawyer . . . ."
Althouse said: "I like the idea of an ego losing its virginity."
I like the idea of losing an ego.
No rape without penetration.
It's a metaphor gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Also, I agree with Fernandinstein @6:30 PM.
I never thought of that before, but in retrospect it seems true.
This song says it all bout men, ego and pretty women:
Pretty girl, pretty pretty girl
Cease to exist
Just, come an' say you love me
Give up, your world
Come on you can be
I'm your kind, oh your kind an' I can see
You walk on walk on
I love you, pretty girl
My life is yours
Ah you can have my world
Never had a lesson, I ever learned
But I know, we all get our turn
An' I love you
Never learn not to love you
Submission is a gift
Go on give it to your brother
Love and understandin'
Is for one another
I'm your kind, I'm your kind
I'm your brother
I never had a lesson, I ever learned
But I know we all, get our turn
An' I love you
Never learn not to love you
I am Laslo.
Beauty, and the lack thereof:
It's one thing for Gloria Steinem to not want to fuck you.
It's another thing for Andrea Dworkin to not want to fuck you.
And yet another thing for Andrea Dworkin to want to fuck you.
I am Laslo.
Nature plays favorites.
Beauty is important indeed.
It takes a lot to compensate for its lack.
Of course its unfair.
That is so, and theres no denying, no matter modern mores.
There is no easy or reliable way to persuade the body to work as the mind wants it to.
The ultimate judge is between the legs, and its decisions really are final, in the long run, no matter how clever the appeal.
Oh good grief, buwaya is well versed and appreciative of the west, like his kinsman Richard fernandez, with a wealth of experience and wisdom, unlike those throw night soil over this place and leave it to the hostess to clean up.
Let us all stop arguing, and let us pray, as brothers and sisters, as children of God, for all those tonight who are reading this thread and who are wondering if God loves them.
God loves you.
Trust me.
God loves you more than God loves me.
You are going to Heaven before I go to heaven if I have anything to say about it!!!!
God loves you Mary, and I am sure that you know that women of every race are beautiful when they are young and healthy!!!!!
That may have been the most satisfying part of the book.
Not that you care, but he has pointed out his spanish heritage, in the past, I guess it's too subtle for a storm fronter, like you, or maybe just a moby
Mary that was nice!!!! I recognize that when you said "my God" you were not being rude about God but rude about my vision of God!
I am nowhere near God's right hand he loves you much more than me!!!!
Sweetheart I have seen old and ugly people look at me with love in their eyes because they knew what you pretended I did not know, they knew I knew how much God loves them!
Pray for me Mary .... I cannot really argue with anyone with such a beautiful name, pray for me, and may God bless you!!!!
What matters in the end is what we do for His glory not ours, I guess my profession of faith was taken too strongly
Perdone este mentecato,
Wolfe was blunt about telling the truth, whether it was the pr campaign that put the mercury astronauts on a pedestal, the agitators who made life in Oakland the hellscape it is today. Aherman McCoy was a man of artifice of self deception
Mary God loves you,
and every time you saw beauty in a fellow human, God saw it too.
Only guys with low testosterone are only attracted to women of their own phenotype, stop mocking such guys!
and narciso is a genius, don't argue with him.
Buwaya is right! If you haven’t been crushed by a pretty girl by the age of 18 you aren’t trying hard enough as a man.
Stephen Cooper! At first I thought “blotter acid”, today I am thinking “Laslo, you magnificent bastard”
Wolfe could only gather scraps of the truth, like with Henry lambs schooling, Sherman's crude subterfuge.
undiluted, full-strength opinion of a beautiful woman exceedingly strong?
Did he ignore her advances? Was she humiliated?
You look at the big picture, the biggest of canvases, but they in turn are part of a larger dot.
Yeats said we resign ourselves to reading many dreary books just to discover, in some of those books, the few lines of life-giving beauty: here a beautiful simile, there a sentence or two of perfect prose, and sometimes the words we need to hear
Night soil.
God is not an elf.
Elves love God.
Wolfe is better than anyone at getting to the heart of the matter by way of minutia.
It depends on what the man thinks of the woman- beautiful has little to with it most of the time.
A good mother can armor a man's soul and a poor one can leave a house of cards that collapses with the first errant breeze.
I didn't reread Bonfire because it could not possibly be as good as I remember it.
On the more modest question of whether a woman's assessment can penetrate a man's ego, and on the question of whether there can be a first time for this to happen....for sure. It's a truth, it's a thing that happens, and it's a great and insightful metaphor.
@bagoh20:
The problem is that some men's egos dress so provocative that the womens' opinions can't help themselves. It's natural. What did you expect to happen putting yourself out there like that?
That made me laugh out loud - thanks for starting the work day on a high note :p
Women's egos are so fragile you invented an entire philosophy to explain why it's someone else's fault they can't handle everyday interactions. Naturally you conclude the male ego is weak.
This thread seems to have shrunk since last night....
bagoh20 : I'm disappointed in the dropping of the cases about the cake baker. I think he had an excellent chance at winning both the state case against him and his federal case. He was clearly being targeted and harassed by Colorado state officials and some individuals who were clearly discriminating against him for his religion. He should have kept fighting. He would have won it all.
Fear not, he'll have every opportunity to keep fighting. They'll be back for another go. This is just reculer pour mieux sauter.
Virginity is politically congruent to innocence, which may or may not imply greenness/naivety.
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