February 10, 2019

Talk in the Raturday Night Café and the Google search it inspired.

Click to enlarge and clarify...

Here's a link to last night's café.

"Marriage is the death of hope" brings up webpages that purport to quote Woody Allen. I'm dubious.

"Marriage is the death of romance" gets me to some boring relationship advice plus the assertion that it's the translation of a Chinese proverb:
I'm dubious. It used to be very common to hear characters on TV (often in ads) say "Ancient Chinese wisdom" (in a fake Chinese accent) followed by something in the form of a proverb (almost always a manifestly fake proverb).

"Marriage is the death of love" gets me to boring relationship advice, some more groping after a Chinese proverb, and a review of a play about Maynard Jackson, "the first African-American mayor of a major U.S. city, elected in Atlanta in 1973":
[Playwright Pearl Cleage has a] sagacious way with words, and epigrammatic pearls like "There's no greater cynic than a failed romantic" (a variation on George Carlin’s "Scratch a cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist"). Later, when Evey recalls an epiphany of self-discovery in Paris, she tells J.P., "Marriage is the death of love."
Ha ha. Scratch me, I'm a failed cynic.

Have you thought about Maynard Jackson recently? Did you know he fought Muhammad Ali?
“The only thing that really worries me is what happens if I hit him, for his sake and for mine as well,” [Mayor] Jackson said.

“[He] will not land one punch in one round, and if he dreamed it, he better wake up and apologize!” Ali responded....
But Jackson won with a technical knockout:
“Those trunks he had saved him because he had them too high.,” Ali told reporters. “I couldn’t hit him low because you’re not supposed to hit below the belt. He came with the trunks up to his breast, therefore I couldn’t hit him in the effective spots ‘cause he’s so big, he’s like a balloon, and if you hit him he’ll bust.”


Ann Althouse said...

And with the "men in shorts" tag, this post becomes a nominee for best collection of tags in the history of the blog.

Special thanks to Phidippus for retorting to rhhardin with the basic idea that had occurred to me and in such excellent words.

Ralph L said...

Dr. Johnson: A second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.

Rajkumar Raosinhji said...

Everybody: Did I not say tha Warren will be the next POTUS? I am really good at this.

You can see her VP choices as well: Harris, Klobuchar, Booker (all Sens) or Jay Inslee (WA gov) or Gina Raimondo (RI gov).

Tata to Trump for ever and ever. He got his eviction notice this weekend.


mccullough said...

Surprised there’s no Muhammad Ali tag. Trump reminds me a lot of Ali.

rhhardin said...

Google marriage is the death gets me to

“So it's not gonna be easy. It's going to be really hard; we're gonna have to work at this everyday, but I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you, forever, everyday. You and me... everyday.”
― Nicholas Sparks, The Notebook

That's the guy who kills off the love interest at the end of every story. Women love that.

Amadeus 48 said...

Oscar Wilde (perhaps riffing on Dr. Johnson, perhaps PLAGIARIZING): "Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience."

Ann Althouse said...

"Surprised there’s no Muhammad Ali tag. Trump reminds me a lot of Ali."

I thought I'd put it on. Thanks for the prompt.

There are 12 Ali posts. Check them out!

Ann Althouse said...

Thanks for the additional marriage quotes, but the key thing here is equating marriage to DEATH to address the famous difference between comedy and tragedy.

Ann Althouse said...

So please hold off on all the negativity about marriage. The element of negativity must be DEATH to stay on topic.

Ann Althouse said...

"That's the guy who kills off the love interest at the end of every story. Women love that."

Speak for yourself.

That Nicholas Sparks quote is putrid.

Amadeus 48 said...

"but the key thing here is equating marriage to DEATH to address the famous difference between comedy and tragedy."

But no one who has been happily married thinks that. You and Meade are a living monument to the interplay of thoughts, traditions, playfulness, masculine and feminine natures, aesthetics, art, science that is completely life-enhancing.
You are an artist/law professor married to an artist/autodidact. If that isn't fun I don't know what would be.

Fernandistein said...

"The majority of Scottish birth, death and marriage records are held in the custody of the Registrar General for Scotland at New Register House in Edinburgh. There are separate guides to each of the registers which you can access at the links below."

I thought I'd throw a wrench into the monkey bag and include a couple of sentence which might be true.

Amadeus 48 said...

On the other hand, there is the famous Alan King routine where he gets the audience to read a series of obituaries that include the phrase "survived by his wife."

rhhardin said...

I don't recall any romcoms on arranged marriage. No place for an apology. I have one perhaps but couldn't finish it because of the old-timey conventions being annoying.

So there's nothing about love growing from responsibility; and love not exactly being a feeling.

It's taken today as love starting as a feeling and perhaps surviving responsibility.

rhhardin said...

The romcom genre where antagonistic opposites find that they fit probably comes closest, but still depend on something like a feeling in the end.

Former spouses getting back together probably comes closest, on screen.

Closed Circuit (2013) with Rebecca Hall, perhaps. It falls into action rather than romcom as a result.

Ralph L said...

Did Hitler marry Eva at the last minute, or am I thinking of someone else?

The possibility of the old, childless, rich, and eventually dying Duke of Omnium marrying his young "companion" was a plot point in an early Trollope Palliser novel, but in that case it was the niece's fear of new life which would have been the death of her hopes (but her husband's were the opposite as he didn't want to leave the House of Commons). Tortuous try on topic.

tim in vermont said...

I really think that the "game over" tee shirt was a gut punch to the institution of marriage.

bagoh20 said...

The prize fight is the death of the romance, the mystery, and the excitement.

Ralph L said...

birth, death and marriage records
Miss Marple: Oh, Somerset House!

The Palliser part of those novels deals with the struggles of their arranged engagement/marriage, and in the last one the desire of the wife (who's killed off at the beginning) to avoid it for her daughter, knowing her husband won't like the girl's secret choice.

rhhardin said...

Shakespeare and post-Shakepeare are into romantic marriage choices. The shift from arranged to romantic was the point of Anthony and Cleopatra.

Sebastian said...

"Ancient Chinese wisdom" (in a fake Chinese accent) followed by something in the form of a proverb (almost always a manifestly fake proverb)."

Huh. Hill couldn't even fake that.

Dave Begley said...

I'm writing a screenplay about marriage; at least in part.

I'm interested to see the comments here.

Comment away! I've already borrowed from Justice Kennedy. I did footnote him in the script. Also, public domain. He doesn't have a copyright on his SCOTUS opinions.

Dave Begley said...

My hero saves his future wife's life and in several ways. So - for her - marriage is life and not death. Her former husband is a monster.

dda6ga dda6ga said...

I prefer Walter Matthau in House Calls:

"A date is a one time expense,
Marriage is overhead"

rhhardin said...

He who fling mud lose ground. (Chinese accent)

Michael K said...

Then there is heart transplant patient going home from the hospital.

"Is it OK to have sex ?" he asks. The doc says, "Yes, but only with your wife,"

"Why only with my wife ?"

"With anyone else the excitement would kill you."

Dave Begley said...

Here are my lines from Justice Kennedy's opinion, "marriage promises nobility and dignity to all persons. As Cicero said, the first bond of society is marriage. Blackstone says it is one of the great relations of private life."

Am I Jill Abramson?

Movies aren't usually footnoted although I did footnote the script.

rhhardin said...

Think of this as from your spouse.

We recently sent you an email requesting feedback on your overall experience with [redacted]. We would greatly appreciate your feedback. We ask that you please take about 3 minutes to let us know what you think we're doing well or where there's room for improvement

rhhardin said...

Survey in the middle of Barthelme's Snow White
1. Do you like the story so far? Yes ( ) No ( )
2. Does Snow White resemble the Snow White you remember? Yes ( ) No ( )
3. Have you understood, in reading to this point, that Paul is the prince-figure? Yes ( ) No ( )
4. That Jane is the wicked stepmother-figure? Yes ( ) No ( )
5. In the further development of the story, would you like more emotion ( ) or less emotion ( )?
6. Is there too much blague in the narration? ( ) Not enough blague? ( )
7. Do you feel that the creation of new modes of hysteria is a viable undertaking for the artist of today? Yes ( ) No ( )
8. Would you like a war? Yes ( ) No ( )
9. Has the work, for you, a metaphysical dimension? Yes ( ) No ( )
10. What is it (twenty-five words or less)?
11. Are the seven men, in your view, adequately characterized as individuals? Yes ( ) No ( )
12. Do you feel that the Authors Guild has been sufficiently vigorous in representing writers before the Congress in matters pertaining to copyright legislation? Yes ( ) No ( )
13. Holding in mind all works of fiction since the War, in all languages, how would you rate the present work, on a scale of one to ten, so far?
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (circle one)
14. Do you stand up when you read? ( ) Lie down? ( ) Sit? ( )
15. In your opinion, should human beings have more shoulders? ( ) Two sets of shoulders? ( ) Three? ( )

Ralph L said...

My hero saves his future wife's life

I hope you have a new twist on this old trope. Austen did in Emma with Harriet Smith choosing the unexpected savior. In other old novels, everyone just assumes they'll get married, it stands out when they don't.

Blackstone says it is one of the great relations of private life

Which is dumb for modern times because it's mostly a public affirmation and contract. Now anyone can live together.

Dave Begley said...

Ralph L

Marriage in modern America has been radically devalued. I'm trying to enhance its prestige. Anyway, it is set in 1795.

Ficta said...

"Marriage is the death of hope" is repeated multiple times in A Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy, so it's definitely traceable to Woody Allen.

Brian McKim and/or Traci Skene said...

O believe it was a commercial for laundry detergent All that depicted a hip, modern Asian mother whispering "Ancient Chinese secret," in in-accented English, perhaps in the early, enlightened 70s. The phrase became moderately popular.

Ralph L said...

Good Luck, Dave Begley. I don't mean that sarcastically--entirely.

traditionalguy said...

I knew Maynard at Emory during the amazing MLK marching days. He was very intelligent, and for the record his African American features were at most about 5%. But Maynard made himself into the White Power Structure's perfect black Mayor. His deal making skills were exceptional. Andy Young was also a great asset to Atlanta too during those days.

jameswhy said...

Maynard Jackson was also the Mayor who built the new (at the time!) Atlanta airport. His first order was that a minimum of ten percent of the construction contracts would go to African-American owned firms. Atlanta, known as "the city too busy to hate," merely shrugged and did it. Atlanta has always had a sizeable black middle class and lots of black-owned businesses. Jackson knew this and made sure they got their cut. He was a lefty's lefty, but he was a good man.

Roger Sweeny said...

"Scratch a cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist" is much older than George Carlin.