October 14, 2018

Whiteness, in the NYT.

I was interested to read the NYT op-ed, "Harvard and the Myth of the Interchangeable Asian/We’re mistaken for each other, but we’re not mistaken about ourselves" by Lisa Ko (a novelist), but that headline does not prepare the reader for the tone of the article, which is creepily presumptuous of the reader's readiness to think of "whiteness" as an entity.

Ko writes:
For many children of immigrants... our origin stories have centered on our relationships to whiteness and class assimilation....

We can choose, falsely, to believe that if we try hard enough, we’ll be accepted by whiteness and gain its privileges, at the expense of other people of color — the myth of exceptionalism. Or we can work to be in solidarity across racial, ethnic and class differences, to refuse to be used to uphold white supremacy....

As America moves away from whiteness as its norm, it’s crucial to imagine, and fulfill, our own radical futures.
Accepted by whiteness? Not accepted as white, but accepted by whiteness. Like Whiteness is an embodied and empowered entity. I'm willing to believe that's how some people who feel subordinated picture race, but I'm disturbed that the NYT has published an op-ed that expects its readers to go along with what is either a delusion or a unexamined literary trope.

132 comments:

buwaya said...

American academia takes sensible, hard working people and turns them into this.
It is a poisonous system and is the root of most of your problems.

Birkel said...

The Victim Olympics: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Oso Negro said...

Asians are 60% of the world's population. Speaking for American "whiteness", if they really don't like the experience they are having here, they can fuck right off and go to a majority "Asian" country of their choice. The map is full of them.

rhhardin said...

Cat Stevens, Into White

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...


I'm disturbed that the NYT has published an op-ed that expects its readers to go along with what is either a delusion or a unexamined literary trope

The same NYT that hired Sarah Jeong?

With respect, Althouse, need moar coffee today?

rhhardin said...

There's round-face and gaunt-face Asians to start with. Then there's China/Japan vs others with an IQ gap.

Paco Wové said...

Another day, another racist NYT column...

tcrosse said...

So Whiteness is an abstraction that would exist absent any instances of it?

Mark said...

that's how some people who feel subordinated picture race

Thugs often find it useful to have a boogeyman to point to in order to rile up people and themselves.

Phil 314 said...

Korean Americans are proving to be some the most feisty and outspoken commenters on America. I wonder how John Yoo would respond to Ms. Ko.

buwaya said...

Oso Negro is correct.
These days the influence of "whiteness" in the old country is negligible.
The colonialists and expats have gone home. The palaces and corner offices are occupied by Asians. They are on their own, and their conflicts are with other Asians. And this has been so for fifty years or more.

And the condition and culture of the old country are easy to figure out, everyone has the technology, there are English language news sources, and plane fares are affordable to people who can pay for Harvard.

American academia is intensely, obsessively parochial. It does not broaded minds, it kills them. It does not educate, it vacuums up what education was there, and blocks any more. It is a torture chamber and prison of the intellect.

Can I put it more strongly, the urgent need to destroy this evil system?

Big Mike said...

Because there is no difference between a WASP, a recent Russian Jewish immigrant, an Italian-American, or an Irish-American. All us whites look alike to Ms. Ko.

Quaestor said...

[Althouse is] disturbed that the NYT has published an op-ed that expects its readers to go along with what is either a delusion or [an] unexamined literary trope.

That stable door has been knocked off its hinges about 30 years now. You've just noticed the missing horse?

Fernandinande said...

"(a novelist)" wrote "we’ll be accepted by whiteness and gain its privileges, at the expense of other people of color — the myth of exceptionalism."

Nope, too implausible for good fiction.

Fernandinande said...

When I hear "whiteness" I think "Texas Chainsaw Massacre".

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I fight the white supremacists every day.

Wince said...

How many more heterogenous populations are there on the planet than the United States?

So, in all the less heterogenous countries, where one race and one nationality predominate, there should of course be names for the various types of "supremacy" and "privilege" the dominant demographic accords to some or all of its members all spelled-out within the New York Times style guide, right?

Show me one example, I dare ya.

chuck said...

Being published by the NY Times is all about being accepted by "Whiteness". If Ko really wants to change things, she should start by decrying the Roman basis of European civilization.

Some Seppo said...

Ko should check her privilege.

Michael K said...

The publisher and editors of the NY Times are hoping that the new elites will leave them alone. They can't figure out how else to plead the fifth.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann,

"Whiteness" is a guy - he used to be my homie, used to be my Ace - but I don't hang with him no more, because, now, I can go to Cheers and drink beers with "Norm".

That's what I got out of it anyway, and I'll gladly meet the NYT's cheap delusions with my own, any day.

Gahrie said...

the myth of exceptionalism

I'm disturbed by the casual assertion that exceptionalism is a myth, and that being successful is acting White.

tim in vermont said...

Last year, polo-shirted racists marched around Charlottesville, Va., chanting, “You will not replace us.” This year, it began to seem that in Georgia, their worst fears might be thrillingly realized.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/opinion/stacey-abrams-kemp-georgia-voters.html

Doublethink is doubleplus good!

Marty Keller said...

I think we're just going to have to put up with this fever until it burns itself out, presuming it doesn't kill the host body in the process.

Karen said...

My husband is Chinese and he came to this country when he was 12. When he began reading the literature of Western civilization, he decided that he wanted to be accepted as an American and worked hard towards that end. He can fit into any environment and doesn’t worry about being identified with any particular group. It’s quite refreshing.

Ken B said...

Karen
Thanks. Good to hear from real people not under the sway of this kind of twaddle.

mtrobertslaw said...

"Whiteness" is a synonym for Western civilization.

buwaya said...

There has been an active and remunerative Chinese-language press in San Francisco and California for the last century. The fellow who wrote "Flower Drum Song" was a journalist working in the Chinese-language press in San Francisco.

There is a similar Korean-American Korean language press, as well as US editions of Korean newspapers.

As far as I can tell these have no influence on US Asian-American academics.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

The Unbearable Whiteness of Being

Steve M. Galbraith said...

For the race focused left an act by a white person is a white act. It's not an act by a white person, a behavior of a white person. Their race must influence that act. Race first, act second.

Of course, race tells us nothing about that act, about why it was taken. I don't do act "A" because I am white. But the race left doesn't think this way.

It's a pernicious danger idea - frankly, it's racialism if not racism. With luck, this fad will pass; but it's going to do a lot of danger before it does. And the liberal media that uncritically publishes this nonsense isn't helping get rid of it.

buwaya said...

Being successful in the US (at least personally) is acting Asian. Or most sorts of Asian.

Any other interpretation, given the modern body of evidence, is absurd.

Seeing Red said...

Seriously, does a white person who moves to China write this about turning to Yellowness?

tcrosse said...

Suppose a Person of Color moved into a trailer park in West Virginia and got addicted to opioids. Would that be Acting White?

Churchy LaFemme: said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wild chicken said...

"And the liberal media that uncritically publishes this nonsense isn't helping get rid of it"


I suspect they see themselves as being very "open" and even "edgy" for publishing it. In order to seem relevant, they adopt the standards of a Sixties alt-weekly like the Berkeley Barb or the East Village Other.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

She can rail, but in general, to whites, American born Asians are white. And Asian immigrants are more admired than not.

William said...

I understand that the intermarriage rate for Asians and Hispanics is about 40%. The intermarriage rate among blacks is lower, but it's rising and will probably reach that level in a generation or two. Ethnic and racial identities in America are not fixed. Your class background is more stable than your ethnicity......This is a good thing. Hybrid vigor. When you cross breed two strains, it's the most vigorous characteristic of each strain that prevails. The true master race is mongrel.

Francisco D said...

American academia is intensely, obsessively parochial. It does not broaded minds, it kills them. It does not educate, it vacuums up what education was there, and blocks any more. It is a torture chamber and prison of the intellect.

Well stated.

My Korean stepson is currently navigating that environment. It is a struggle for him. He doesn't drink or do drugs, but his classmates do in excess. That may be how they cope with the forced intellectual conformity of modern academia.

buwaya said...

White persons in Asia still get a few rungs up the social ladder just because they are white. Part of that is ancient prestige, part of that is specialized cultural abilities - being able to interpret between Asian and Euro-cultures, partly because someone with no special skills or assets is unlikely to be in Asia anyway. And a great deal has to do with scarcity. White people are relatively rare in modern Asia, even in the entrepots, vs the situation fifty years ago.

I leave out tourists in Thailand. Thats a weird special case.

"The World of Suzie Wong" still exists btw, except that the Suzies are rather richer and more sophisticated in western ways. There are William Holden characters out there, and would-be William Holdens.

D 2 said...

Maybe they can write a story interrviewing those chinese scientists stemcelling new mice into being, and they can ask those scientists what they think about global cultural affairs in the late 2010s and if they think a lot about white or not-white or asian or han or hakka or if maybe one of them is bigoted towards Uzbekistan.
Would there be confusion or indifference at being asked the question, I wonder. Some people have more time for questions than other people.

Howard said...

I wouldn't say excepted. Tolerated is a better social attitude. Definitely exploited for their talent, hard work and ability to follow orders like a machine.

Amadeus 48 said...

"...but I'm disturbed that the NYT has published an op-ed..."

Why? It's not your father's NYT. It's not even Abe Rosenthal's. They make love to an elephant but they still cover the circus.

Howard said...

"The Unbearable Whitness of Being" Asians don't have the responsibility for the white mans burden, so they still don't get real respect.

Anonymous said...

Well the Times did hire a hard core bigot for their editorial staff recently. Nothing surprising here.

William said...

This so called whiteness is actually adopting middle class values.. The idea of finishing school, getting a job, keeping your marriage intact, and being a conscientious parent are not white values but middle class values. A great many Asians and Hispanics are better at cultivating these values than whites. I don't see a great deal of prejudice directed against Asians or Hispanics. Sometimes black people who are middle class get profiled wrong, but in America, if you live according to middle class rules, things turn out all right more often than not,

Two-eyed Jack said...

This article is pegged to the author being mistaken for another Chinese-american in highschool. She has suffered this indignity repeatedly over the years. Apparently she cannot imagine that a white person might ever have been mistaken for another, yet I am that person. I was also mistaken for another in highschool. I hope someday to write about it in the New York Times.

Jupiter said...

What the bitch is saying is that she wants me dead so she can have my property. The rest is just window-dressing.

William said...

She complains about the hassle of being a minority. Point taken. This will shape my views on immigration policies.

Milwaukie guy said...

As Big Mike said "Because there is no difference...."

Or between the regional cultures of New England, the South, and California, etc.? Or urban and rural?

Sebastian said...

"Accepted by whiteness? Not accepted as white, but accepted by whiteness. Like Whiteness is an embodied and empowered entity."

Well, yeah. 1. Essentialism is bad, except when it can be used by progs.2. Anti-white racists need to construe whiteness as embodied and empowered, to fuel their own power play.

"I'm disturbed that the NYT has published an op-ed that expects its readers to go along with what is either a delusion or a unexamined literary trope."

Disturbed, eh? At least you are not surprised. Like, I-can't-believe-the-NYT surprised. Disturbed is something. Better than nothing. But not so disturbed you consider them detestable scum, aiming to destroy your worldview, your standards, your white-woman-privilege, and a whole lot more, scum that must be resisted in the voting booth.

Anyway, it is neither a delusion nor an unexamined trope. It is just another prog tool in another prog maneuver in the ongoing prog culture war. Sorry to be so repetitive. I know it is more fun to be selectively "disturbed" and to examine supposedly unexamined "tropes."

buwaya said...

Those aren't middle class values.
Those are Asian peasant values.
Or any "civilized" peasant anywhere really.

"Middle class values" is such an idiotic construction.

Seeing Red said...

This so called whiteness is actually adopting middle class values.. The idea of finishing school, getting a job, keeping your marriage intact, and being a conscientious parent are not white values but middle class values.

It’s also an insult because people around the world adopt these values because humans want to get ahead. It doesn’t matter what your color is.

Did whites start this or is it just human nature?

buwaya said...

I bet her parents from the old country had a more intense case of "middle class values" than she does, and they had them the day they set foot in the US.

The lies and stupidity are piled in mountainous heaps.

Seeing Red said...

Maybe all whites did was articulate these values.

buwaya said...

People around the world don't "adopt" these values, they are inherent to a settled peasantry anywhere.

They can lose them however.

Birkel said...

I admire Leftists racism like that demonstrated above by Howard.
Well done if your goal was to show what Leftist Collectivists have always thought about groups that could be manipulated to increase the power of Leftist Collectivists.

Milwaukie guy said...

Peasant Values not going to sell.

buwaya said...

No, whites did not "articulate" these values.
These things are tropes in a long running leftist propaganda line.
This stuff is the result of people like Fanon being taken seriously, and moreover the century old Leninist colonialist analysis, that ignores the actual values and culture of the peoples it proposes to liberate.

Seeing Red said...

America had slaves. While our betters thought we were peasants we weren’t.

ALP said...

I am beginning to yearn for an alien invasion from outer space. We need some alien race to slap the shit outta every color of the human rainbow. The best invaders would be a bright, neon purple hued insectoid race - all of our human earthy skin tones will look the same to them. Yellow, black, white, red - all will be crushed with impunity. Then maybe, MAYBE we'll remember we are the same species.

buwaya said...

Howard, go to Asia.
Then think over your world view.

It is profoundly wrong.

buwaya said...

Peasant values is what they are.
And they are easy to defend.

What, you want to oppress the peasants?

Howard said...

i was thinking more of constructing the Union Pacific, birkel, not manning the WPA

Howard said...

buwaya: i'm just letting you in on how many whites feel about Asians in America. I'm quite aware that the Chinese invented capitalism and had great civilizations while my people were pagan barbarians living a quasi hunter-gatherer life.

Seeing Red said...

Peasant Values not going to sell.

It does sell, tho. That’s socialism. Then they live it and full Venezuela where u can’t even get toilet paper. But everyone’s equal! All poor except for the elite.

hombre said...

“... but I'm disturbed that the NYT has published an op-ed that expects its readers to go along with what is either a delusion or a unexamined literary trope.“

Why would any sane person be disturbed or surprised by the insanity peddled by the NYT. I’m not going through the paywall to read this drivel, but don’t the excerpts have the smell of delusion. The non-white racialists who appear to equate “whiteness” with evil fail to note the usefulness of their nonsense to cultural Marxists - who are mostly white. The leftist template rules over reason.

Asians are reportedly suing some Ivy League cultural Marxists for discrimination against them resulting from to affirmative action favoring other races due perhaps to the “myth” of Asian exceptionalism.

Seeing Red said...

buwaya: i'm just letting you in on how many whites feel about Asians in America. I'

Did u take a poll? I think Asians also has a different definition in America. I don’t consider Iranians Asian, but it seems under the new world definition they are. I think the current ayatollah used it recently.

Anthony said...

Yeah, well, we don't readily accept the utterly stupid.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Howard said...”buwaya: i'm just letting you in on how many whites feel about Asians in America.”

And you know this how? Oh, I see. These people are your friends.

Howard said...

O-Mike: Most of my friends are Trump voters, so yes.

buwaya said...

Peasant values =/= socialism. Other than for Slavic peasants to a degree, because of their peculiar communalism.

Other peasants, from France (see "Jean de Florette") to Vietnam, what they want above all is their own land, or more of it. Communists sold communism to peasants, where they managed to do so, by promising land. They very rarely delivered, always simply replacing the old landlord with a worse one.

hombre said...

Steve M. Galbraith said...

“For the race focused left an act by a white person is a white act.”

Although sometimes “white acts” can be committed by non-whites, e.g., Kanye West. Although to the unhinged left such an actor may become white or “a minstrel.”

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

It's not your father's NYT.

It was never your father's NYT. It is always the NYT of Sarah Jeong and Walter Duranty.

William said...

If you want to sell these values to the peasants don't call them peasant values. (Marketing is a middle class skill set that well born people of other countries don't understand.) The shanty Irish would have become middle class much sooner if they weren't ridiculed for being curtain lace when they tried to adapt......Not counting the aristocrats who raped my female ancestors in domestic employ, my forebears were nearly all peasants. There's not much to recommend a peasant life style. I'd much rather be middle class.

wholelottasplainin said...

Howard said...
buwaya: i'm just letting you in on how many whites feel about Asians in America. I'm quite aware that the Chinese invented capitalism and had great civilizations while my people were pagan barbarians living a quasi hunter-gatherer life
************

Those Chinese warlords and their armies criss-crossing Asia to pillage, plunder, murder and subjugate were not "capitalists". There were no stock companies in ancient China. Private property was an alien concept; the rulers could take anything away from their subjects on whim---and they often did.

buwaya said...

All right, they are Asian values.
And to be clear, these are ancient and inherent, they are not "taught", they are a treasure gifted by ones ancestors.

Asians in the US, when they adapt, stand to lose a great deal in the process if they aren't careful to avoid brainwashing by the depraved intellectual environment.

They gain local cultural fluency but lose their fire, the "tiger" part celebrated by Amy Chua, who is a daughter of proper overseas Chinese from Southeast Asia.

robother said...

She may have a point.

It is unimaginable that any Asian country would welcome White immigrants who publish op-eds in their leading paper of record arguing for the essential evil nature of, say, Japanese people and their culture and advocating the elimination of the core population and its culture. Much less is it imaginable that Japan (or China or Korea) would make that program the core curriculum at its leading universities.

For that matter, it is unimaginable that any Sub-saharan African or Muslim country would countenance immigrants or higher education institutions that promote the elimination of their core population and its culture.

Perhaps White guilt, the enduring legacy of the Judeo-Christian foundations of "White" civilization, is at the core of the loathing Ms. Ko and her rainbow coalition expresses for Whiteness.

Michael K said...

There were no stock companies in ancient China. Private property was an alien concept; the rulers could take anything away from their subjects on whim---and they often did.

I think Paul Johnson, in his "History of the Jews" has made a good case that Jews invented Capitalism and stock companies as a way to transport wealth and property when they were not allowed to own land.

William said...

Most of the inventions that gave civilization its quantum jump during the Renaissance were Chinese in origin. It's an open question as to why Europeans were able to further develop and exploit these inventions, and the Chinese weren't. The Chinese invented the first mechanical clock. It was put in the Royal Garden of the Emperor where it was admired by the court but not further refined. The first mechanical clock in Europe was installed in a town square in Germany. That clock was imitated and surpassed by the neighboring town and, then again, by the next town and so on down the line........The middle class is based on envy and emulation. These are not aristocratic nor peasant values. They're middle class values. They produce alienation and disaffection, but also superior technology and comfort.

Achilles said...

They are using racism to destroy the institutions that support a liberal republic.

Whiteness is short for due process, freedom of speech, etc.

Mostly in this context whiteness is the feeling that we in America live in a common community and that the things we hold in common define us rather than our differences.

The leftists cannot win unless we are divided.

Steven said...

Wherever in America large groups of Asians and blacks, Asians and Hispanics, or Hispanics and blacks interact, there's simmering racial conflict that has violent outbreaks.

It is only when those groups are dissolved into individuals in a sea of middle-class "whiteness" that "solidarity" is even imaginable.

buwaya said...

Chinese capitalism was always a very personal matter. Great fortunes were built by entrepreneurs, and passed down in families. Its difficult to estimate in modern terms, but in the 19th-early 20th centuries "the richest man on earth" was, probably, often a Southern Chinese merchant. Facts usually missed by the western press of the time and ignored by Western academics with an anticolonial axe to grind.

The Chinese problem with wealth was an inability to create continuity. It was not just a legal issue but a cultural one. A Chinese could not trust in partnerships or the hired management of a joint stock company, even in countries where this legal organization was available, in the European colonies and entrepots (in both cases consider the relative longetivity of Jardine Matheson and the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank), and it was inevitable that when the grand old man passed his heirs would fail. This has changed, to a large degree, but it is more a cultural change IMHO.

buwaya said...

China was for over two thousand years ruled by a centrally controlled bureaucracy of one sort or another. When it wasn't it was in a state of anarchic civil war. The dead hand of bureaucracy applied down to the whole economy.

Given that, through most of its history its peasantry was, in all likelihood, the best-off peasantry on earth in terms of standards of living, and indeed also in the opportunities for social mobility. China long ago also lost the social-caste aspects of class. Wealth was wealth, power was power, scholarship was scholarship, talent was talent.

Achilles said...

Howard said...
buwaya: i'm just letting you in on how many whites feel about Asians in America. I'm quite aware that the Chinese invented capitalism and had great civilizations while my people were pagan barbarians living a quasi hunter-gatherer life.

That was fun and funny.

Howard displays his ignorance of capitalism and history while simultaneously trying to deceive Asian people about your intent to place them in an inferior position to your own in the racial spoils system Democrats created.

I give you points for creativity.

But the game is over. We are going to dismantle the last remnants of your racist spoils system.



Birkel said...

Howard uses the Chuck, fopdoodle extraordinaire, excuse for his own racism.
He blames somebody else for making him type racist things.

Michael K said...

it was inevitable that when the grand old man passed his heirs would fail. This has changed, to a large degree, but it is more a cultural change IMHO.

Hence the proverb, "First generation coolie, second generation merchant, third generation rich man, fourth generation coolie."

The Jardine Mathieson company was built on the tea-opium trade. China would not sell tea to Europeans, chiefly English, except for silver bullion. They would accept no trade goods. The Chinese empire would have cornered the world silver supply except the English learned the Chinese loved opium. The English discovered opium in India and traded opium for tea, until they stole some tea plants and learned to grow them in India.

Michael K said...

The attraction of tea to the English was boiling the water. The alternative was gin, which was much less healthy.

Water in 19th century London was death from cholera.

chickelit said...

Go, go, ko chi Minh!

PaoloP said...

"...either a delusion or a unexamined literary trope"
Is it possible that an intelligent person like Althouse notices for the first time that identity politics is entirely based on coerced reception of confused and unquestionable entities? Toxic masculinity, Whiteness, systemic racism, and so on.
Integral part of the "theory" is that just questioning any point is proof of your being part of the problematic issue.

Anonymous said...

Jupiter: What the bitch is saying is that she wants me dead so she can have my property. The rest is just window-dressing.

William: She complains about the hassle of being a minority. Point taken. This will shape my views on immigration policies.

These two comments pretty much cover it.

As buwaya remarked above, "American academia is intensely, obsessively parochial. It does not broaded minds, it kills them. It does not educate, it vacuums up what education was there, and blocks any more. It is a torture chamber and prison of the intellect". It's remarkable how something as easily understood as "being a member of a minority in an established majority culture" can be tortured into such obfuscating nonsense.

hstad said...

Geez Ann, I can't believe you're hyping the NY Times political propoganda non-stop. So some Asian woman, ex-Chinese from the Phillipines, LOL, educated at a worthless ultra-liberal college, Wesleyan College, hyping racist thoughts. Liberals will forever hang themselves with their worship of political narrative and literary tropes (make believe thinking), disappearing in the USA. If whiteness is so evil then how come all of these civil rights laws, interracial marriages, and opportunities given to immigrants, illegal and legal, were given to them by the whites? AA, your academia background has infected your thinking about this political junk. Just one thought, how many white people died during the Civil War in the USA.

Seeing Red said...

I’m sorry, buwaya, I was answering Howard and just copied without really proofreading. I wasn’t slamming you at all. I enjoy reading your postings.

Milwaukie guy said...

I've read a lot of people who talk about yeoman values.

Clyde said...

"Lighten up, Francis!" Er, "Lisa."

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

a dichotomy: "a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different."

whiteness and something else...

the more one focuses on something, the more compelling the need to apply the very principle one side seems to reflexively reject - a hierarchy.

which begs the question, if whiteness got us to the moon does that mean something other than whiteness would have gotten us to mars?

get your ass to mars... omg an anti-white message hiding in plain sight. ;-)

William said...

Buwaya' s prejudices are so rarefied and uncommon that they're more like idiosyncrasies than prejudices.

Steven said...

It's an open question as to why Europeans were able to further develop and exploit these inventions, and the Chinese weren't.

Not really. Except for Aristotle, never in history did the founder of a major philosophic tradition also bother with "natural philosophy". Thus, except among the students of Aristotle, never was there any systematic investigation of the natural world. Thus the legacy of an Archimedes or a Shen Kuo or a Madhava, in a Neoplatonist or Confucian/Taoist or Hindu intellectual milieu, is a handful of device designs or mathematical curiosities, not the sort of inquiry that could lead to a scientific revolution.

(Indeed, one can see the tendency among students of Aristotle to simply accept Aristotle's pronouncements on natural philosophy as definitive and then get into the "interesting" arguments over metaphysics or ethics or politics. But the students of other philosophic traditions didn't even bother with natural philosophy to that extent.)

Bob Loblaw said...

SJW butchers the language. News at 11:00.

Seeing Red said...

It's an open question as to why Europeans were able to further develop and exploit these inventions, and the Chinese weren't.

And then there’s the VCR....

Howard said...

If the Silk Road is just as much capitalism as the railroad robber barons of the 19th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road

Michael K said...

Given that, through most of its history its peasantry was, in all likelihood, the best-off peasantry on earth in terms of standards of living,

There is a pretty good argument that rice cultivation was so successful that Chinese agriculture became stagnant.

The Manchus also cut off a good deal of the intellectual tradition so that, when Europeans arrived, iron/steel making had been lost when the Chinese had bells made 1000 years before. Read Joel Mokyr's books on the history of technology.

Howard said...

Achilles "racial spoils system" is too addled in ideology to recognize that on the juggernaut scale of the US Economy, these spoils he speaks of are mere crumbs. It is the feminine feline mind that is maniacally drawn where Fox aims the laser pointer

buwaya said...

Rarefied and uncommon?

That may be a function of ones ability or willingness to listen.
Or having the curiosity simply to ask.

What do you think those Asian parents think?
How many bother to ask them?

Or for that matter, who goes to Asia and seeks real opinions there?

Seeing Red said...

I apologize for putting this here, but the gift keeps on giving:

Hillary Clinton says her husband´s affair
with an intern was NOT an abuse of power
because a then-22-year-old Monica Lewinsky
´was an adult´ at the time
Daily Mail [UK], by Emily Crane

eddie willers said...

So are you Chinese or Japanese?

tim in vermont said...

It is the feminine feline mind that is maniacally drawn where Fox aims the laser pointer

Where did you get that? Talking Points Memo? (rolls eyes)

Michael K said...

It is the feminine feline mind that is maniacally drawn where Fox aims the laser pointer

Howard needs to read books but, being a troll, he reads Wikipedia.

daskol said...

Whiteness can come in all colors: far more extensible than something tied specifically to white people. Clever.

Howard said...

Thanks Tim, with the way "you people" butcher common sense, those TPM-ish lines practically right themselves. TPM, however, would not flit with misogenetic alllitteration

Howard said...

Mike only recommends books by ideological push-pollers like by Sarah Hoyt and Karl Rove. He likes to be spoon-feed comforting nostrums that validate his distorted window on reality.

Birkel said...

The right is spoon fed and the left has the better ideas.
But for some reason the right has the advantage amongst governors, Representatives, Senators, the presidency, and perhaps even the Supreme Court.

The Leftist Collectivists cannot abide.

Michael K said...

Blogger Howard said...
Mike only recommends books by ideological push-pollers like by Sarah Hoyt and Karl Rove.


Fucking Wikipedia idiot.

So, This guy is a ideological push poller ?

What a fucking idiot. Do you even know who McKinley was ?

Go back to Google and Wikipedia where you are among left wing idiots.

Have you ever heard of this fellow ?

Jesus what an idiot ! Go read Talking Points Memo.

tcrosse said...

White people can be perfectly nice as individuals, but if you get a crowd of them together they're trouble.

Michael K said...

A discussion of Chinese technology is contained in Joel Mokyer's, "The Lever of Riches," especially Chapter 9.

Those who are interested in facts, might be interested.

Left wing trolls are not.

tim in vermont said...

White people can be perfectly nice as individuals, but if you get a crowd of them together they're trouble.

I can't believe that you missed the line from Mary Poppins!

We're clearly soldiers in petticoats
And dauntless crusaders for women's votes
Though we adore men individually
We agree that as a group they're rather stupid
- Sister Suffragette fMary Poppins

tim in vermont said...

Doc, he doesn't ever seem to understand the words he uses. Sometimes I suspect him of being ESL. He just throws words we use back at us in a damp squib attempt at sound and fury.

He will probably use that line next. It's a childish game of his.

tim in vermont said...

Howard now claims that there is no lefty talking point that says that we all dance to Fox's tune. I haven't watched Fox in years for more than three minutes. Maybe once I watched Tucker Carlson, IDK.

He made up attacking Fox News all by himself!

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/search/Fox+News

Michael K said...

The people I read this blog for do not make empty assertions with nothing to support their opinions.

One reason I avoid Farmer is that he makes these statements as if they were right out of the encyclopedia.

Howard is just a troll. I mistook him for someone serious.

At least he did get me to reread some of Mokyr's book. I have three of his books but it has been years since I read them. The "Lever of Riches" book I used for research on my own medical history book and that was 1998.

Seeing Red said...

left has the better ideas.

Which bring starvation destruction and death.

daskol said...

Whiteness can be advanced by nonwhite people who’ve been assimilated into it. Like those Asians suing Harvard: they’re advancing whiteness.

daskol said...

Black families who use vouchers or register their kids for a charter school: advancing whiteness while being black. That’s how pernicious whiteness is.

C R Krieger said...

So, at some point the Caucasians will become a minority in the United States and then the People of Color will have to face down the problem of who to blame then. I expect Academics will suffer the most.

On the other hand, I am not sure what terms like "should check her privilege" means. Is that to say it should be checked at the cloak room, or does it mean one should examine it in some sort of self-examination?

Regards  —  Cliff

Ken B said...

Michael K
Farmer is not like the rest. I have found him to be careful with facts, and often interesting. Sometimes loonie, but if I wanted cookie cutter thinking I’d read CNN.

n.n said...

Jew privilege. White privilege. White Hispanics. Asian privilege. A clear and progressive divergence.

Michael K said...

Blogger Ken B said...
Michael K
Farmer is not like the rest. I have found him to be careful with facts, and often interesting.


I think he posts stuff right from "American Conservative" but doesn't admit it. He seems to think he is enough authority.

At least he isn't like Inga who posts links that contradict her points.

daskol said...

Whiteness takes naps after church on Sundays, but that's OK, because non-whites failing to fulfill their radical futures are helping whiteness out.

Danno said...

Elites are mostly white. Most deplorables are white. Does that make both groups equivalent in their whiteness?

Sam L. said...

It's the NYT, Ann. Just one more reason to detest and despise the NYT.

Gahrie said...

Elites are mostly white. Most deplorables are white. Does that make both groups equivalent in their whiteness?

Nope. The deplorables are fine with being White. The Elites feel guilty about it.

Rick said...

We’re mistaken for each other, but we’re not mistaken about ourselves"

Only one more step to apply this obvious outrage to Others. You can make it!

Jump!

Caligula said...

Whiteness? Whiteness?

Surely she means, patriarchal whiteness?

Er, umm, make that patriarchal heterosexual whiteness.

Or is the real problem patriarchal heterosexual cis-gendered whiteness?


It's like those potato chips, betcha can't stop at just one!

And obviously, with the entire universe of patriarchal heterosexual cis-gendered whiteness against you, there's no reason why Harvard shouldn't discriminate against Asian-Americans! (Yes, you gotta be woke to see the "logic" here.)

ccscientist said...

Paranoid people imagine that other people are looking at them funny, racially, when really no one gives a sh*t. No one is looking at them at all.