Canada agreed late Sunday to join the trade deal that the United States and Mexico reached last month, meeting negotiators’ self-imposed midnight deadline designed to allow the current Mexican president to sign the accord on his final day in office and giving President Trump a big win on trade.NYT headline: "U.S. and Canada Reach Trade Deal to Salvage Nafta." First 2 sentences of the article:
The new treaty, preserving the three-country format of the original North American Free Trade Agreement favored by business groups and congressional Republicans, is expected to be signed by Trump and his Canadian and Mexican counterparts in 60 days, with Congress likely to act on it next year.
The United States and Canada reached a last-minute deal to salvage the North American Free Trade Agreement on Sunday, overcoming deep divisions to keep the 25-year-old trilateral pact intact.In WaPo, it sounds like a new deal. In the NYT, it sounds like what we're getting is the preservation of the old deal. The NYT makes it seem like a close call with disaster, and WaPo says the deadline is self-imposed and designed to make Trump look like he has a big win.
The deal came after a weekend of frantic talks to try and preserve a trade agreement that has stitched together the economies of Mexico, Canada and the United States but that was on the verge of collapsing.
I suspect that both newspapers wanted to make Trump look like less of a success and they chose different approaches to diminishing him.
WaPo credits Trump with a "big win" in the first sentence. The NYT forefronts the stress. In the first few paragraphs: "a year of tense talks and strained relations," "frenetic Sunday." You'll have to wait for paragraph 6 to see "a win" for Trump:
The deal represents a win for President Trump, who has derided Nafta for years and threatened to pull the United States from the pact if it was not rewritten in America’s favor. Overhauling trade deals has been one of Mr. Trump’s top priorities as president and he has used tariffs and other threats to try and force trading partners to rewrite agreements in America’s favor.It's a "win" not a "big win," and maybe the Times isn't even conceding that it's a win. It only "represents a win." And Trump created all the disorder and threat on his own. He didn't critique NAFTA for any real problems. He "derided" it.
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I am glad you read those two tabloid newspapers so I don't have to!!
It's just a frenetic Sunday/Wish it were Monday/That's my fun day....
Trump forced the Canadian government to act in the best interest of the vast majority of Canadians instead of a handful of Quebecois dairy farmers.
As they are ignorant of all things economic it will take some time for NYT and WaPo to decide why this is a bad deal. It's a task made more difficult by the fact they have been whinging that the lack of a deal was catastrophic.
Wish it were Monday?
You're in luck!
In the NYT, it sounds like what we're getting is the preservation of the old deal.
Negotiators anticipated this and officially changed the name- it is now called the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, or USMCA
If Donald Trump personally found a cure for cancer, the leading news outlets would feature how many oncology specialists will lose their jobs.
Argh! Now that song is stuck in my head, tyvm, Althouse.
Its a deal to negotiate a deal. Canada was going to be left out.
Just in time to ask Democratic Senate candidates how they would vote on this next year, when it comes to the Senate.
Clearly it is a win for Trump's policies and a defeat of the Obama economic policies; probably will take a couple of years to figure out how big a win and defeat.
The deal came after a weekend of frantic talks to try and preserve a trade
"Try and" is NYT-level grammar, or perhaps hendiadys.
Keep in mind that Trump offered the world (at the WTO meeting) trade free of tariffs, quotas, subsidies, and artificial delays and barriers. The Holy Grail of Free Trade. That flushed their lyin "We want free trade!" toilets. They wanted no such thing--only US $Billions. We were subsidizing the world. Our past leaders sold us out.
NYT and WaPo hats all say "make America meek again." Markets disagree. And the People are still not sick and tired of winning, winning, winning.
Now that Mexico and Canada have paid for it, how about getting that big beautiful wall built? Make our heads spin, Prez.
I found it interesting that news coverage of the NAFTA renegotiation focused on things like:
Trump is a bully and starting a trade war,
We are mistreating our best friends, and
Look how this will hurt occupation X, Y and Z
But I did not see many articles that asked the basic question:
Were we being screwed by NAFTA?
In many of our deals (Iran nukes anyone?) my perception is that the US has entered the negotiations with the mind set, We MUST get a deal!
Not a good way to negotiate. Even for a used car.
Manic. Not frenetic.
This would be a good Monday to roll over in bed, and snooze the morning away, listening to the patter of rain on the roof.
So it is either:
Trump preserved the old deal but attached enough importance to it that it seems like a big deal and a big win, meaning he has managed to created political win for himself.
OR
Trump actually broke the logjam, forced Canada to come to the table and has mighty negotiation skills, making a better deal for American trade and created a political win for himself.
Either way, it seems like the guy that has never held political office is *gasp* competent.
And both the NYT and WaPo cannot stand that.
What's all this fodder wasting white space. Don't you fools know there are 1981 highschool yearbooks to parse??? AND slang, for Gods sake, can't someone come up with a definitive definition of boof, and devils triangle, circus 1980?
Too much time wasted on nothing stuff, like the strongest economy ever, and some stupid thing Canada did on Sunday, that no one cares about.
MORE COWBELL!
The big change is on domestic content. NAFTA allowed exports by China, etc to basically be laundered through Canada and Mexico, and then sent to the US.
This hollowed our mfg in the US.
Everything else is window dressing.
"Ann Althouse said...
It's just a frenetic Sunday/Wish it were Monday/That's my fun day...."
Written by Prince, given to the Bangles because he had the hots...like every other dude....for Susanna Hoffs.
Trump played hardball. Castro offspring Trudeau didn't have the stones to play and caved.
last-minute salvage deep divisions frantic talks collapsing.
NYT words to describe "they made the agreement on time".
Don't you fools know there are 1981 highschool yearbooks to parse???
"Here’s the 5-page memo from prosecutor Rachel Mitchell who questioned Prof. Dr. Blasey Ford."
Trade, schmade. I want my chaotic Trump!
I bet this post doesn't gather five hundred comments in the next two hours. People have strong opinions about sex and poignant memories of high school, but dairy product exports to Canada doesn't engage such primal urges and resentments. It's a victory for Trump, but it will be easy to make this sound boring and bury it in the financial pages.
If the Canadians hate Trump, it’s for not breaking the dairy tariffs.
I would trust Trump to negotiate a better trade deal than Hillary......Hillary, however, so far as is presently known, would not fool around with Stormy Daniels so let's get the conversation back to Stormy Daniels.
Did Trump just lock down Wisconsin in 2020?
As usual, while the media is focused on one thing (in this case Judge Kavanaugh) Trump is getting other things done. How many people, including politicians and journalists, even remembered there was a trade agreement deadline?
This is a well-established pattern by now. Trump does not mind chaos and mass hysteria because he knows how to use it to his advantage. But still his enemies keep playing the same old game. I'm wondering if they'll ever realize they're being played for suckers.
I also suspect the FBI investigation regarding Judge K is going to turn out in Trump's favor. The midterms could be a slaughterhouse.
increased dairy exports to Canada 'seem' like they'll be using up all our Delicious Whole Milk;
But, don't worry! Our Cows can make more!! Delicious Whole Milk for all!!! mmmmmm milk!
People have strong opinions about sex and poignant memories of high school, but dairy product exports to Canada doesn't engage such primal urges and resentments.
We're not regular robots, you know, coldly analyzing important but complicated economic ideas. We're high-school-girl sex robots gossiping and fantasizing about who did what with whomever, and see how old they look now, can you imagine?
Another promise kept. And in record time. And during the Russia investigation.
"Hillary, however, so far as is presently known, would not fool around with Stormy Daniels"
But she would Huma few bars.
Pretty soon we'll hear that Trump wanted "X, Y and Z" but only got "X and Y" so his trade deal is not what it's cracked up to be. Once again showing no one in the media has ever bothered to read "The Art of the Deal" so they still don't get that he goes long on requests to get where he wants in the middle. The Republicans never understood this and perpetually offered good popular consensus bill that ended up being compromised to the left. The Democrats always asked for the moon and compromised to orbit.
MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!! MAGA!!!!
The trilateral deal will no longer be called Nafta, they said, but will be named the “United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement.”
That's a mouthful. USMCA? That's a marble mouthful.
Nafta was a pretty huge deal at the time. This looks more like a bunch of tweaks.
After months of Canada studiously avoiding a deal because they saw detriment to their own interests...
The NYT informs us this is no big deal and certainly not a win for Trump.
Those stupid Canucks!
MCA was a Beatie Boy.
US-MCA is easy to say.
JAORE: But I did not see many articles that asked the basic question:
Were we being screwed by NAFTA?
Because for the "we" directing the articles, the question had already been answered. No, *they* weren't being screwed, they were doing nicely under that status quo, thank you very much. Lots of industry-specific wailing and gnashing of teeth, but no in-depth, big picture, long-term perspective, as if "national interest" or the rest of the country could possibly matter.
Where I live, both NAFTA and the existing international trade status quo have been pretty much crack cocaine for the most locally important industry. So you never see anything in the regional papers but carefully fact-selective, highly emotive articles on how the administration's grossly economically and historically ignorant attacks on "free trade" are going to bring ruin on us all. (They're essentially re-printed press-releases from the PR office of said industry.) The reader is supposed to just accept that the status quo is as close to the ideal state of win-win, maximum-benefit free trade as is possible in this earthly vale, and that wanting to correct any flaws, unfairness, or cheating is tantamount to promoting the imposition of a Soviet-style command economy. (This from people who are gummint-subsidized out the wazoo, mind you.)
It is being reported that China is cutting their steel and textile tariffs in response to US pressure. You think Hillary has the smarts, guts and business acumen to do what president Trump has been doing? How about Elizabeth Warren- anyone feel confident that the fake Indian from Harvard has the chops or intelligence to do these things? How about Little Marco Rubio, dork Ted Cruz, Beavis and Butthead clone Tim Kaine, pussy Jeb Bush, stooge John Kasich?
We need intelligent, strong and patriotic people running our country. Our elected officials are predominantly dumb, stubborn, arrogant, ignorant idiots raised on anti-American rhetoric and propaganda. President Trump is showing us all what the American president should be, what the representatives of America should be- for America.
Sen. Whitehouse will vote against ratification on the grounds that USMCA stands for Unwilling Sex Making Cunts Available.
Michael Fitzgerald:
The Chinese are cutting import tariffs on goods they export.
That is a PR stunt.
But at least the Chinese recognize their PR is lacking.
30 years since last that was true.
The usual worthless NYT/WaPo articles about Trade.
Hey NYT/WaPo, what about some specifics?
Oh sorry, we don't care about that. We just want to discuss Trump and politics.
What a surprise! The WaPo and NYT seek to diminish Trump's accomplishments while maximizing his mistakes. No 'cruel neutrality' there but then they don't make that claim.
Jeff Bezos and Carlos Slim are upset. What good is it owning propaganda rags if the government says fuck you?
Trump wipes his ass with Bezos, again.
"a year of tense talks and strained relations," (i.e. negotiations).
Or he could have done it Obama's way: Show up looking good. Smile broadly, wearing a beautifully cut suit. Give big hugs and pose arm in arm with Trudeau. Give a speech sprinkled with nice sounding words forming sentences that flow beautifully, and paragraphs that don't actually mean anything. Go play golf while the US handcuffs itself to another 40 years of apologizing for our economic success.
Or you could be embarrassed by Trump while he knocks another one out of the park and helps businesses from Miami to Vancouver do better.
So Trump is getting us better deals? Well, I never!
If NYT's says that this deal "represents a win"- that translates to a walk-off Grand Slam by President Trump.
Why is a Mexican newspaper trying to influence US politics?
Did Trump grandfather Trudeau's eyebrow merkins into the deal?
Eyeball to eyeball, and Trudeau blinked.
Anyone remember when the pundits predicted this whole process would be a disaster for the United States because Trump? I must have imagined it.
So Trump is getting us better deals? Well, I never!
That remains to be seen. The actual deal has not been published yet.
But it looks like there is some tweaking around the edges (especially regarding automobile manufacturing), but it is essentially the same deal that was negotiated by HW Bush and signed by Clinton.
The keys will be if the U.S. caved on Canadian dairy subsidies (which wasn't a big deal but Trump made a big deal out of it) and the dispute resolution mechanics (if Trump got the Canadians to agree to hear dispute cases in U.S. courts, that really is a big deal).
Don't congratulate Trump yet. Other "big deals" (e.g., North Korea and the South Korea free trade deal) he has negotiated have turned out to be less than advertised.
Nicely done, Temujin!
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So now you are appropriately skeptical of the Post and the Times, Althouse? You fell for their BS that Kavanaugh was the fifth vote to overturn Roe v. Wade easily enough.
NB: the Naming now cites the three Nations making a tripartite deal. It does not create a North America political Provence that was so dear to the British and Spanish elites who assume they will again govern North America as Devine right set it up.
That is the big deal. The Nation state governed by irredeemable Deplorables is great again.
"The reason the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices it on a daily basis."
- from a post-war debriefing of a German General
The reason the Trump does so well in life, is that life is chaos, and Trump practices it on a daily basis.
The reason the Trump does so well in life, is that life is chaos, and Trump practices it on a daily basis.
I haven't seen the chaos. While the order is not the OLD order, it is nonetheless order and there is always method to Trump's supposed madness.
Thanks Fernandistein,
I read Mitchell's report and saved it. I had many of the same observations and some other ones that cannot be objectively documented. She did a very good, lawyerly job. I will state again that she has been greatly underestimated by both sides.
I suspect that the Left will try to force her out of her job here. Fortunately Maricopa county is fairly red.
Freder Frederson assures us that incremental improvements are no big deal and that only a complete and total victory should be accepted.
Field Marshal Frederson demands we send tanks into Montreal or we have accomplished nothing.
Freder Frederson assures us that incremental improvements are no big deal and that only a complete and total victory should be accepted.
I would think that incremental improvements to the "worst trade deal ever" would not satisfy you or the president.
The market is up 254 points. I think they like!
mockturtle said:
I haven't seen the chaos.
No but the media is telling us it is there and, if it isn't there naturally, they are certainly trying to create it.
Freder Frederson demands second worse is just as bad as worst ever.
Never waste an opportunity to waste an opportunity, Frederson.
Movement on NK is. Big deal. So is the movement in the ME. That will be another big deal. The Palestinians are screaming like stuck piggies.
Chinese leaders thought they had learned from these Russian mistakes but now Chinese economists and bankers are reporting that China has many of the problems that brought down the Soviet Union and kept post-Soviet Russia weak. While China currently has the second largest economy on the planet it has many serious problems that cannot be ignored.
They ALWAYS fall, Inga. Learn your history. Starvation, destruction and death. Your side. This is what you cheer for.
This “chaos” Trump “creates” is a nothingburger.
It’s been said by some experts the 21st century belongs to China. The US again is past its prime.
Free markets feed socialism kills.
" Spanish elites who assume they will again govern North America as Devine right set it up."
Indeed. My political project is to restore what currently is the United States to its proper union with the Spanish Empire, under the Bourbon monarchy. Granted its a stretch goal.
Winning!
Nobody can remotely say that this would have happened without Trump. That's the proof of Trump's effects in the world. Just ask yourself how these things ever would have come about without him. He is a disruptor of the best and most powerful kind. Very Reaganesque, and I never would have expected that. He was very go-along-to-get-along before he ran for President. Friends with people on all sides. Now he is championed by people who formerly gave him little thought and hated by many of his old friends. It's easy to be loved as long as you don't rock the boat.
Trump to Trudeau: "I drink your milkshake."
Trump to Trudeau: “drink my milkshake. If you do, I will give you everything you want. I just need about 20 000 votes in Wisconsin.”
buwaya said...
" Spanish elites who assume they will again govern North America as Devine right set it up.
Indeed. My political project is to restore what currently is the United States to its proper union with the Spanish Empire, under the Bourbon monarchy. Granted its a stretch goal."
While your statement is tongue-in-cheek, you must also know from personal experience as a Filipino that there has never been a Spanish colony that did not reflect the basic political shortcomings of the mother country - government corruption, native repression, resource theft, a bizarre legal code, and an uncaring ruling elite. The US has enough problems without wishing this travesty on us, tool
And Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
It's only a BIG win when it's so big the Dems in the media admit it is a win.
Democrats are suffering from Democrat Derangement Syndrome, hating virtually all Reps in public: Trump, Kavanaugh; Bush from 12 years ago, Palin, McCain (in 2008); Cruz, Sanders ... one Rep after another.
Dems are acting Deranged -- they suffer from Democrat Derangement Syndrome.
Trade is a positive sum, win-win situation. Previously, the USA was getting an unfair small amount of the win. Thanks to Trump, the USA will get more win, while Mexico and Canada continue to get wins, but relatively less than the unfair earlier amounts.
The "expert economists" who wrote letters against Trump, were wrong. Trump was right. Trump is better for the US economy than the advice given by most "experts".
Hwy, Congress gets to vote on it before it becomes a "deal" or "plan" that is something we are beholden to do as a nation. What a concept! Why wasn't this done with Kyoto, or the Paris Treaty, or the Iran Nuclear agreement? Oh, wait, that's right. Congress wouldn't touch those piles of shit with a 10 foot pole, so just the President agreed to agree in those cases.
Here we have this fascist Trump, a demagogue by all accounts, a dictator by other accounts, submitting an agreement to Congress for approval or destruction. Imagine the outrage of the Dems when they have to vote on being successful economically or not!
My summary
Trump team used access to 20T US market as leverage
Canada has 38 million people and $1.5T
Mexico has 1T GDP
Chinese used canada and mexico to sell parts into US.
Canada had barriers in banking, dairy, and communications.
US can easily get what it wants
If only it tries
(what Trump meant by "trade wars are easy to win")
On to China
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