September 3, 2018

Harvard Law School was looking for women when it hired Elizabeth Warren.

I'm reading "Ethnicity not a factor in Elizabeth Warren’s rise in law" by Annie Linskey, in The Boston Globe.
Harvard Law School’s internal statistics from the time showed the institution was looking for female professors and had set a goal of hiring a tenured woman that year. Oddly, the law school’s internal metrics found that they believed they had sufficient minorities on staff, despite employing only five.

One area that 30 of the 31 professors interviewed by the Globe agreed on: There was no talk about her Native American claims during the meetings over her appointment. One professor emeritus, Lloyd Weinreb, said he believes her Native American ancestry was discussed. But, in an e-mail he questioned his own recollection: “I am not sure enough for you to rely on me,” he wrote.
If it were discussed, in what way would it have been discussed?
It’s not even clear that Warren would have been accepted as a true minority hire if she’d been pitched to the faculty that way. “It wouldn’t have even worked in the most diehard communities,” said [David] Wilkins, who was one of the only black law professors on staff. “Let’s be blunt. Elizabeth Warren is a white woman. She may have some Native American roots, but so do most people.”
That one comment is more significant, I think, than the fact that  30 out of 31 Harvard lawprofs affirmed to the Globe that there was "no talk about her Native American claims during the meetings over her appointment."

By the way, did the Globe ask these professors if there was any talk outside of the meetings? Was there any written communication? Were the professors asked if they knew that Warren was listed as Native American in the American Association of Law Schools book that all law professors get a copy of every year? Did they know and did they think about it? There could be a decorum according to which you don't openly talk about it in meetings but everyone knows and is taking it into account. And one reason not to talk about is that you know that — as Professor Wilkins clearly stated — the black law professors would have objected if her case had been presented as a minority hire. But those voting on the case may nevertheless have considered it a plus that the school would be able to say that it had a Native American law professor — which in fact it went on to do.
The Harvard Law School students who were clamoring for more diversity also did not view her as a woman of color when she was offered a job.

“In order to show a real commitment to diversity they need to do more than pass a resolution and bring in white women,” said Julie A. Su, then a second-year Harvard Law student who was quoted in the Harvard Crimson the day after Warren was offered the job.
I believe this.
And, remarkably, Warren doesn’t even remember getting the offer. “I guess it should have been a big moment,” Warren said, reflecting on her inability to recall the details.
That's weird, but it's doesn't affect the matter under discussion. If her putative Native American ancestry were a factor in hiring her, I can't believe it would be part of the communication of the offer.

I mean, at my school, this sort of thing was out and proud. Under our chancellor Donna Shalala, we had "The Madison Plan," which funded 4 hires in one year. Our hires included a Native American whom Professor Wilkins might have looked at and called "a white man," but he was — and this was considered crucial — a citizen of the Cherokee nation.
Perhaps most telling was the role of Randall Kennedy, a law professor who was on the Harvard appointments committee at the time, and was in charge of recruiting minority candidates.

“She was not on the radar screen at all in terms of a racial minority hire,” Kennedy told the Globe. “It was just not an issue. I can’t remember anybody ever mentioning her in this context.”
Kennedy says he remembers no mentions, and that seems to refer to discussions outside of meetings as opposed to meetings alone, which tweaks my suspicion about what "30 of the 31 professors" told the Globe.

If you're wondering whether Professor Kennedy is a member of a minority group, I refer you to this book he wrote, the title of which I won't write. (I'd read that book, but I would not listen to the audio version.)

The Boston Globe takes care to give us quotes from Harvard Law School professors Warren antagonists probably know and like — Alan Dershowitz ("occasional Trump defender")....
“This is a made-up issue... This is not an issue that’s worthy of the president or anyone else.”
... and Charles Fried ("the former solicitor general to president Ronald Reagan")...
“It had nothing to do with our consideration and deliberation... How many times do you have to have the same thing explained to you?”
They sound testy! And imperious. Like people are idiots who don't understand their words — when really it's that people don't believe them. Actually, the testy, imperious denial may heighten suspicion.  And race is something that can affect decisionmaking without anyone needing to say it explicitly. Later, maybe no one remembers anything. They may not even see it at the time. But that's too complex and unknowable to see and talk about, unless it's one of those times when we're told we must.

ADDED: Are the last 11 words of this post too enigmatic? I'm thinking of the many calls for a "conversation on race" that are about getting ordinary people to understand the "systemic racism" and "white privilege" they're supposedly failing to see.

335 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 335 of 335
iowan2 said...

No, I already care, but you've made up a reason not to. Because you're being racist and can't admit it.

Posturing on the internet is the antithesis of caring.

So to be clear. Blacks don't want reparations for the Blacks of the past. Blacks don't want reparations for the Blacks of future, you admit no wealth would survive for future Blacks. Exactly why do you posture on the internet?

As for as killing your own, and then making a decision to raise the ones you don't kill without a father...that's an individual decision, regardless of who created the mess. YOU made the decision.

It good you admit to not caring about that which you cry crocodile tears.

Captain Curt said...

Imagine this scenario:

A group of male executives is in the hiring process for a new department secretary. One of the applicants is drop-dead gorgeous. All of the men would like to have a beautiful woman around, but know that it is not a "correct" criterion for hiring.

Still, they could easily make the decision to hire her without a single one of them ever even stating this as a reason.

Kevin said...

"Crack-

I'll gladly trade one-time reparations for a dismantling of the perpetual assistance state. Deal?"

Isn't that what I said?


And how would this happen?

Write it into law? Laws can always be overturned.

It's not an issue of Crack's sincerity. It's an issue of people wanting to use the fisc to buy votes.

Pretty soon, we just decide racism has continued and new payouts are in order and the whole thing begins again.

We are being turned into a nation of victims to ensure we keep the powerful in place who best understand the roots of our demands.

As soon as black people are paid, someone else moves to the head of the victim line. Once redheads get 20x what black people got fifty years later, we'll need to pay more to "even things up".

The Crack Emcee said...

Чикелит said...

“I hate debating people with such a profound ignorance of a subject. Why do white people do this?"

"You are profoundly driven by hatred."

So you show profound ignorance because you think I'm driven by hatred - even though I talk of injustice?

How do they miss the injustice?

Lovernios said...

We probably got a good 30-40% of our food from the government. That freed up quite a bit of moola for my parents to go out drinking on Friday and Saturday night at Walter's Lounge. That was the headquarters for Walter Bennett, the infamous Boston Irish gangster. He and his brothers William and Wimpy got wiped out by the Italian mafia in the 60s. Only whites could go there. It wasn't enforced by law, but no blacks dared to sit at that counter.

Jim at said...

The only people who actually care about this (like you and Trump) are people who would never vote for her anyway. - Freder

Try telling that to the people who were actually Native American, yet didn't get the spot because the bitch lied.

The Crack Emcee said...

Чикелит said...

"Show me the evidence that Mitt Romney colors his political thinking and potential future actions by the details of his faith."

I lived in Utah for 5 years, and, if you don't know that Mitt is the White Horse, then you don't understand anything.

Kevin said...

All the nonsense and fake outrage by the right over her heritage and the claims that she used it to get ahead is nothing but, people on the right foolishly think it’s going to keep her down. It won’t

It's nice to have Inga back defending Dems again. Whatever they do is nothing but hey, Trump is about to get impeached for rumors about his using an unauthorized cell phone to make a call.

Kevin said...

I think if Warren gets the 2020 nomination, the Dems will not only make her a full-fledged Native American, Inga will be calling everyone who doesn't vote for her racist.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"I was raised a few miles from Crack in the same era in a completely different world."

No shit. When I got bussed to school, I was with white kids who had horses and planes - and they still had chips on their shoulders.

Lovernios said...

I think the Bennett brothers murdered someone in the basement while everyone was partying upstairs. Decapitated the poor fellow.

John henry said...

So Crack,

Who would collect reparations? My wife,a natural born US citizen, is descended from African slaves if you go back far enough, However, they were brought here by the Spanish, not the Americans.

Who does she collect reparations from?

What about me? Am I black? Do I get reparations? Legally, I can claim to be black and must legally be accepted as such under federal law. Do I get to dip my fingers in the gravy?

I am not black and, as far as I know, have no black ancestry. But just as Bruce Jenner can claim to be a woman, and has to be legally accepted as such, I can claim to be black and cannot be questioned.

John Henry

Lovernios said...

My old man was a wannabe, but Walter was smart enough to keep a drunk and a loser like him far away from the business. So Dad was relegated to small time scams and petty theft.

Lovernios said...

Dad and his buddies, the Hersey brothers, would go down to the warehouses, break into a trailer containing toys, then sell them in the various bars they frequented for drinking money.

BarrySanders20 said...

Julie A Su should have started a litigation partnership with John Yoo.

Then they'd be Su Yoo.

The Crack Emcee said...

jaydub said...

"Where am I waving a tin cup under your nose?"

"All you do is exaggerate, cajole, posture, whine and bullshit."

It's funny, how angry whites never notice that all I do is speak, and that's enough to bring out a wolf pack against me - themselves included - and then they blame me for disrupting whatever racist nonsense a Gahrie or Michael K would call "harmony" around here. I swear, it's so easy to see how lynchings happened when you guys do this. You just churn shit up and then BLAME A NIGGER!!!

"That's not waiving a tin cup, it's actually just a continual, pathetic con job wherein you claim ownership of others' wealth based on your bullshit."

Again - not just ignorance but a PROFOUND IGNORANCE of the subject. I'd be ashamed to argue so vehemently, in public, while being so stupid. But - white people. WHo's gonna stop you, right?

"Beggars are occasionally honest, con men are never honest."

Wait - you admit there's no tin cup, but you still want to hold me guilty of *something* having to do with money. Incredible.

"Don't flatter yourself by ascribing anything other than venal purpose to your scam."

OK, Champ.

"Stupid bigot."

Just horrible people.

The Crack Emcee said...

CWJ said...

"Lovernios,

You forgot a step. Identifying and validating who exactly receives them."

Sounded like Mountain Man didn't have a problem.

Lovernios said...

Definitely not Goodfellas. What a bunch of maroons.

The Crack Emcee said...

Lovernios said...

"We didn't have a blender, so we had to mix the powdered milk with water by hand. Thin with clumps of unmixed powder. Ugh. Good thing they gave us sugar, too. Pile that on and it became edible."

You're making me homesick.

The Crack Emcee said...

johnhenry100 said...

"Perhaps we should consider Warren a homeopathic indian."

Right there - the acknowledgement that he knows there's nothing in it.

Just horrible people.

The Crack Emcee said...

Lovernios,

"Walter's Lounge" rang a bell - where was that located?

Lovernios said...

Two other interesting things about Warren, one while at Harvard she never engaged with the Native American groups or individuals. Two, there was a Cherokee genealogist who researched Warrens claims and of course found them to be baseless. She came to Massachusetts to confront Warren but was kept at arm's distance. The media didn't cover this either. The only person to do so was Howie Carr.

The Crack Emcee said...

johnhenry100 said...

"Who would collect reparations?"

I'm not going to be bothered with your stupidity today, JH.

James K said...

There was no talk about her Native American claims during the meetings over her appointment.

Having been a participant in many such meetings, there is never a need to raise the issue of the ethnicity, race, or sex of the candidate. It would be uncouth to do so. But everyone in the meeting understands that it (or can be) an important factor. It's the elephant in the room that no one will speak about.

Lovernios said...

Walter's Lounge was on Dudley Street near Upham's Corner, just past the railroad bridge that crossed Dudley. Same neighborhood as the government food center.

Lovernios said...

That whole area was part of Dorchester (Dawchestah) called Upham's Corner. We lived on Woodward Park Street at the time. One of over 35 different apartments we lived in during my childhood. Drunks can't keep up with the rent, so out the door we went.

Tina Trent said...

If you can't count on a bunch of Harvard law professors to evade the truth, who can you count on?

Lovernios said...

One of the most popular black joints was the Blue Note right in Dudley Square. Dad knew better not to go there as well. No violence, but no welcome either. These were the unspoken rules of the day.

buwaya said...

I'm Spanish.

We aren't paying.

Lovernios said...

Great line Tina!

Lovernios said...

buwaya,

Were you responsible for the Japanese American Internment? Were you a taxpayer when that reparations was paid? You paid for that.

BTW, I like your posts. You seem very knowledgeable and informed on a number of issues with a different perspective. I look forward to more.

Howard said...

Many of the blacks bused to my Valley high school were selected based on their football skills, although none of them openly dated any cheerleaders. With them, we would crush downtown schools Dorsey and Crenshaw as they were picked clean of the good players by Valley schools. Gardena and Carson were loaded with Samoans who were not bused and could not be beat.

Howard said...

Don't worry buyawa puti, the Spanish aren't on the hook for the white mans burden... we don't expect nor do we need you people to lift a finger.

Howard said...

Warren likely has Sami blood, the native american's from the north of Scandinavia

Lovernios said...

So the idea that any reparations will be in the form of taking money from me!!!! seems to be very strongly held. I'm surprised that no one can think of any alternatives.

The federal government owns around 640 million acres of land (about 28 percent) of the 2.27 billion acres of land in the United States. There are probably trillions of dollars of untapped natural resources on or under that land. Right now rights to those lands are leased out to various timber, energy and mining companies. Some of that land could be placed in trust and the revenues generated by those leases could be used to assist black Americans. Details to be worked out by smarter people than me.

It doesn't have to be a direct transfer. It won't come out of your pocket. You're not getting any of that money as it is now.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"Many of the blacks bused to my Valley high school were selected based on their football skills, although none of them openly dated any cheerleaders."

Yeah, I saw a lot of that, too. The first white school I got bussed to had an awful football team, but one black guy who could run circles around everyone, so every game was like "36 to 0 - AND THERE GOES TYRONE!"

"With them, we would crush downtown schools Dorsey and Crenshaw as they were picked clean of the good players by Valley schools."

Dorsey and Crenshaw high schools. Crenshaw Blvd. was where blacks went shopping for Christmas gifts when I was a kid.

"Gardena and Carson were loaded with Samoans who were not bused and could not be beat."

I ventured out to Gardena to buy comic books, and that trip required me to catch three buses, including one that had a stop on a freeway over-ramp, and then, when I arrived, I had to deal with white people. In the 70s. My friends considered me insane. Now they think I'm crazy for driving across the country.

Hey - I like comic books.

Darkisland said...

Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

Right there - the acknowledgement that he knows there's nothing in it.

I thought I was always clear, right from the git-go, that I know there is nothing to homeopathy.

I think that everyone who believes in homeopathy knows that too.

As long as they do, there is no fraud and I have no problem with it.

No more problem than I have with gambling, alchohol, religion or the myriad other things that people believe in.

John Henry

Howard said...

Alvin Hooks was our Tyrone

Howard said...

In 1974, we went from the Valley to Zuma Beach in a 4-hour bus ride each way through downtown, south central, Santa Monica then up PCH. Departure at 0600 beach 1000 to 1400, then home by 1800. I remember the Valley to downtown was the 74 bus. Lots of freaks all along the way.

Best body surfing wave was worth the trip.

Gahrie said...

I ventured out to Gardena to buy comic books,

Damn Crack...you and I were both buying comic books from the same store at the same time probably. (There were two comic books stores in Gardena in the 70's and I shopped at both when I visited grandma's)

Lovernios said...

When we lived on Hyde Park Ave. my brother and I were shine boys. We'd hit all the bars from Forest Hills to Dudley Square. Most let us in, but some chased us out. Men mostly wore leather shoes then. We always wanted to hit the Blue Note because we knew that black men always wanted to look their best when they were out playing. But the black shine boys guarded their turf diligently. If we got caught impinging on their territory we'd have to run for it or get our asses whupped. We didn't want to lose our money for candy and comic books, so we mostly stayed away.

Those were the rules of the day.

Rabel said...

Today, in a nation that is 12.5% Black,
in a state that is 6.1% Black,
The University of Wisconsin, Madison student body is 2.9% Black.

Donna tried, but could not overcome the inherent racism in the great state of Wisconsin.

Put Crack in charge and something might finally get done.

Original Mike said...

”...and the revenues generated by those leases could be used to assist black Americans.”

How is that materially different than what we’ve been doing for 50+ years?

Lovernios said...

"How is that materially different than what we’ve been doing for 50+ years?"

Here is where I differ from Crack. I would not have direct payments made to individuals. My preference would be to use these funds to start businesses, college scholarships, community projects and the like.

As I said, millions of whites received welfare in the last 50 years as well. These whites exhibited all the social dysfunction you criticize blacks for. Was that reparations? If so, for what? Seems to me blacks receiving welfare were receiving it for the same reasons as whites (and with the same adverse effects) and under equal purview of the law. If blacks, and only blacks received welfare, then I might agree with your premise.

Michael K said...

I have it on good authority that Warren is ashamed that she was hired on merit alone.

“What does it say to our nation’s minority persons that their mentor and leader actually achieved success through dint of hard-work, and skill,” Sen. Warren lamented in a Globe interview. “I’m petrified that this will close the doors of affirmative action opportunity in the faces of my fellow tribespersons…yes, petrified like those majestic forests in Navajo and Apache territory, on the land that the White man now calls ‘Arizona’.”

Maybe she could get Ducey to appoint her to McCain's Senate seat so she would be culturally at home.

Original Mike said...

”then I might agree with your premise.”

What “premise”?

Lovernios said...

Michael K,

Wow! That quote is amazing. Does she really believe she is a minority mentor, role model and leader? Worse, does she believe that Native Americans cannot make it through hard work and skill?

Original Mike said...

I just wanted to know why you think this is going to work. Past results would indicate otherwise.

Qwinn said...

From 1994 to 1996, just as a sample:

2.7 % of Non Hispanic whites received AFDC, 5.7% received food stamps, 8.3% received Medicaid, and 3.5% received housing assistance.

During the same period:

14.0% of Non Hispanic blacks received AFDC, 23.3% received food stamps, 27.0% received Medicaid, and 15.3% received housing assistance.


So blacks consumed various forms of welfare at 3 to 5 times the rate that whites did across every program, and you're arguing this did not represent a massive transfer of wealth to blacks?

I know math is hard and stuff, but at least *try*.

Lovernios said...

Your premise that 50 years of welfare are materially the same as what I was proposing as a possible form of reparations.

Lovernios said...

"So blacks consumed various forms of welfare at 3 to 5 times the rate that whites did across every program, and you're arguing this did not represent a massive transfer of wealth to blacks?"

I would say it amounted to a transfer of cash, not wealth. And of course it was also a massive transfer of cash to whites as well. What was that for? In terms of real dollars more went to whites in total. Very few, if any, of the blacks or whites receiving welfare accumulated any wealth or rose up out of poverty.

"I just wanted to know why you think this is going to work. Past results would indicate otherwise."

I do not know if it will work. I'm just offering a new idea. Hoping civic-minded people would be willing to discuss with an open mind.

Original Mike said...

It is “materially the same”. All that’s changed is what we’re calling it (not that that is unimportant, but I don’t see that it will produce a different result).

Qwinn said...

"And of course it was also a massive transfer of cash to whites as well."

The vast bulk of the cash came from white taxpayers. The receivers of the cash were disproportionately black. It amounts to a vast transfer of money from white people to black people. That some minor bit of the money administered by these programs went from some white people to other white people is beside the point. Blacks did not contribute nearly enough to the treasury to fund what other blacks were taking out of it. That shortfall was filled by white people. Therefore, vast transfer of wealth from white people to black people. This really shouldn't be that hard.

"I would say it amounted to a transfer of cash, not wealth."

So which version of the Newspeak dictionary are you using that does not have the concept of "wealth" as a part of the definition of "cash"? If cash does not represent wealth, what the hell is cash?


Lovernios said...

"The vast bulk of the cash came from white taxpayers."

And the vast bulk, not a minor bit, went to white people. For me wealth means accumulated assets, such a real property, stocks, bonds, etc. The cash received by welfare recipients barely covered living expenses for the first several decades and wouldn't really leave much for capital accumulation.

I think I've stated clearly my idea. So let me ask you fellows a few questions:

Are black Americans your fellow citizens?
Is America better off with a permanent underclass of angry, resentful citizens?
If not, what are your thoughts on what could be done?
Or, is it better to keep the status quo?

From a political perspective:
Blacks voted Republican because Republicans were perceived as sympathetic to and had the interests of blacks in mind after the Civil War.

Is there anything the Republicans could do to gain back some of the black support?
How much of the black vote could be pulled from the Democrats at best?
Would it be enough to forestall the coming demographic changes the Democrats have in store for us?

Please, I understand you feel strongly about these issues. There is no reason for snark or insults, subtle or obvious. I'm not one to react emotionally. The five mental sicknesses are fear, surprise, confusion, anger and doubt. Avoid these and you can live in peace.

Howard said...

Throwing a life ring to keep someone from drowning is not enough. To complete the job, you halfta bring them to shore.

Naturally this concept is foreign to cuckservative africaphobic stooges

Lovernios said...

And besides, we probably agree on far more issues than we disagree. If anything we can agree to disagree on this one issue.

Original Mike said...

Here’s my problem, Lovernios. Your plan smacks of, “Something must be done. This is something. Therefore, this must be done.”

It’s a bad way to make policy.

Michael K said...

Naturally this concept is foreign to cuckservative africaphobic stooges

Howard has a nice warm plantation right there waiting. Cable TV, lots of welfare and plenty of free stuff, including abortions.

Doug said...

Crack, you're a real piece of work, aren't you?

tcrosse said...

Throwing a life ring to keep someone from drowning is not enough. To complete the job, you halfta bring them to shore.

They halfta help.

n.n said...

Reparations were paid in blood and treasure for the sins of the minority. Today, we have rehabilitation, revitalization, and reconciliation, that recognizes individuals, not diversity.

Bunkypotatohead said...

"this is not an all or nothing proposition. The US Government paid the victims of the Japanese American internment $20,000 each. Using that as a standard and with approximately 25 million black Americans that would work out to about $500 billion (please check my math). That is not an insurmountable figure. And it's not necessary for direct payments from taxpayers"

So are we all gonna take DNA tests to see who has a drop of black blood to qualify? That's the standard, right? One drop?

40 acres and a mule should be enough, as long as they are on some other continent.

Gahrie said...

From a political perspective:
Blacks voted Republican because Republicans were perceived as sympathetic to and had the interests of blacks in mind after the Civil War.

Is there anything the Republicans could do to gain back some of the black support?
How much of the black vote could be pulled from the Democrats at best?
Would it be enough to forestall the coming demographic changes the Democrats have in store for us?


So Republicans should attempt to buy the support of the Black community by giving them government handouts like the Democrats did?

Gahrie said...

"I would say it amounted to a transfer of cash, not wealth."

Cash, as all forms of money, is simply a way of transferring wealth from one individual to another.

Gahrie said...

Very few, if any, of the blacks or whites receiving welfare accumulated any wealth or rose up out of poverty.

1) The definition of poverty changes over time, almost literally every year. If it's $20 thousand this year, it's $20,400 next year. I think you would be awfully surprised if you attempt to compare the standard of living of poor people today with poor people in 1964.

2) Perhaps, just perhaps, the people receiving welfare make poor decisions that prevent them from accumulating wealth like rejecting delayed gratification, eating fastfood rather then buying food and cooking it and recreational drug use.

Gahrie said...

I do not know if it will work. I'm just offering a new idea.

Actually, you're behind the times. The "new" idea is a guaranteed basic income.

Darkisland said...

Blogger Howard said...

Throwing a life ring to keep someone from drowning is not enough. To complete the job, you halfta bring them to shore.

Naturally this concept is foreign to cuckservative africaphobic stooges

And yet isn't this precisely what President Trump is doing for black Americans?

How many more black Americans are working, learning skills, earning their own money (instead of money taken from someone else via taxes) getting the self-respect that comes from being self-sufficient.

And to Crack's point, having an income allows them to begin building wealth. Hopefully someone will give them some good advice about putting 10% of every single paycheck aside. That's where wealth comes from. Spending less than one earns.

What more could be done? I think this is huge. Huger than better welfare programs. Huger than reparations.

This is bringing millions of black Americans into the mainstream of society. In some cases for the first time in several generations.

What more would you have him (and the American govt/people) do, Howard?

Suggestions?

John Henry

Darkisland said...

Blogger Lovernios said...

Very few, if any, of the blacks or whites receiving welfare accumulated any wealth or rose up out of poverty.

Generally, if you are receiving money from any of the multitude of federal and state programs lumped under "welfare" you cannot legally accumulate any wealth.

First, most of it is not in the form of cash so hard to save. If you are able to save anything from the cash payments, you are obviously receiving too much and are cheating the system.

John Henry

Darkisland said...

Blogger Gahrie said...


So Republicans should attempt to buy the support of the Black community by giving them government handouts like the Democrats did?

President Trump seems to be working at earning the support of the black community by making the handouts unnecessary. Or at least less necessary.

The person earning the paycheck has little need for handouts. Or at lease less need.

John Henry

MountainMan said...

Big Mike said: "Repeatability and validation. You need repeatability and validation."

My wife, who does about 80% of our genealogy work, spent several weeks looking into the DNA results and family trees of DNA-matched relatives on both 23andMe and Ancestry.com. I won't go into all the details - this is Ann's blog, not mine - but she concludes, and I think I agree, that there is validity to the African DNA in my sample.

One thing I do plan to do is to repeat 23andMe testing in a couple of years, and then maybe again a couple of years after that. They continue to improve their analyses and the data base is growing. I will want to see if the results hold up over time.

One thing that has been spot on is the analysis of my personal traits and characteristics. Dead on accurate so far with everything it has reported. I had never observed that my ring fingers are longer than my index fingers, but the are! My wife's aren't.

readering said...

Boston Globe convinces me. But who cares? We live in a world where POTUS accuses his AG of approving indictment of pro-trump Congressman based on supposed Obama era investigation of 2017 insider trading.

chickelit said...

A $500 billion payment to all blacks in America would have to be run by the Chinese. How ward that go?

wholelottasplainin said...

Stripped of his whining and self-hating bullshit, Crack's argument boils down to this:

"I want "free shit". I want free shit forever, in much larger amounts than the free shit I get at the beginning of each month through replenishment of my EBT card.

Why do I want free shit?

Because by the second/third day of each month I have burned through all the free shit I get through my EBT card. What's a brother to do if I have to spend the rest of the month figuring out how to get whitey to pay me for all the other free shit I want?"

That about right, Crack?

wholelottasplainin said...

Doug said...
Crack, you're a real piece of work, aren't you?
*************

No . He's a worthless POS. Nothing more.

wholelottasplainin said...

Lovernios said...
"How is that materially different than what we’ve been doing for 50+ years?"

Here is where I differ from Crack. I would not have direct payments made to individuals. My preference would be to use these funds to start

As I said, millions of whites received welfare in the last 50 years as well. These whites exhibited all the social dysfunction you criticize blacks for. Was that reparations? If so, for what? Seems to me blacks receiving welfare were receiving it for the same reasons as whites (and with the same adverse effects) and under equal purview of the law. If blacks, and only blacks received welfare, then I might agree with your premise.

*******************

Baloney.

Welfare is not the same as "reparations". Reparations is a claim that living whites owe blacks for a historical grievance, not a "helping hand" based on immediate (but supposedly temporary) need..

You've simply assumed that all that black Americans need to do to improve their lives is to be given boatloads of cash.

So...who STARTS those "businesses, college scholarships, community projects and the like?"

AS IF muttering cranks like Crack would magically start businesses, buy houses they could pay monthly mortgages on.

AS IF there are not already Affirmative Action programs that give "qualified" blacks financial access to college.

AS IF aggrieved blacks had the habits of thrift, individual responsibility, and delayed gratification they would need to sustain those new businesses and home purchases, and thrive in those universities.

AS IF.

No. What would happen is that most of them would simply piss all that $$ away, and wake up some day....wanting more. And more aggrieved than ever.

Because Whitey.

Or (according to Crack) New Age.

Snort.

Howard said...

Doc Mike makes the best case for Crack getting his reparations free stuff. MK repeatedly relates how his African medical students were of a high quality while his Afro-American med students are on the main sub-standard. If Doc's observations are true (a stretch perhaps), this is a tangible evidence of the after effects of Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, red-lining, gentrification, etc, etc.

narciso said...

No, because they appreciate education more than native born African Americans, it is more a cultural than racial dynamic, but Liz Warren has been a fraud for 30 some years in terms of representational and academic reasons

Howard said...

John Henry: I don't know what needs to be done. What I do know is that reparations (40 acres and a mule)is a reasonable option that should not be dismissed out of hand. Assume prime agricultural land value of $7,500/acre and a mule at a value of a new F250 with farm kit at $50,000 equals a one-time payment of $350K. 37.145 Millian American blacks the total bill comes to $13 Trillion.

chickelit said...

@Howard, that’s a bit like saying that American-born women deserve more money and attention than foreign-born women. Because — performance!

MountainMan said...

There is no way, after nearly 160 years, to pay any reparations for slavery. Deciding who should be the beneficiaries is a very difficult problem. Just because you have some African DNA doesn't necessarily mean you are entitled to some compensation. And reparations don't have to be in the form of cash. Over the past 50 years we have had programs - like affirmative action, race-based admissions to college, minority set-asides in government contracts - that were created to make up for past discrimination.

How black would you have to be to qualify? Can you prove you were descended from an enslaved person? Does it have to be one enslaved in the US? What about all the descendants of former slaves in Latin America and the Caribbean that have emigrated to the US; they number in the millions. (Only 5% of the slaves that were brought from Africa came to the US; all the others went to the other parts of the New World, with the greatest number to Brazil.) What about the free blacks in the South before the Civil War who also owned slaves? There were thousands of them. Should their descendants be allowed to collect reparations? Why? What about the millions of mixed-raced descendants of enslaved persons who were raised as white and never suffered the injustices of Jim Crow and segregation?

If you know the history of the Japanese internship, the Korematsu decision, and the government's later repudiation of that decision, you know it is not a good analogy to the slavery situation. So, I don't think we should be using it as an example.

wholelottasplainin said...

Howard said...
Doc Mike makes the best case for Crack getting his reparations free stuff. MK repeatedly relates how his African medical students were of a high quality while his Afro-American med students are on the main sub-standard. If Doc's observations are true (a stretch perhaps), this is a tangible evidence of the after effects of Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, red-lining, gentrification, etc, etc.
**************************

Where, exactly did Doc Mike make this claim??

You seem to be heaping up mounds of "correlations proves causation" arguments, w/o offering Mike's actual words.

And...HOW MANY, as a percent of their national populations, do those high quality African students represent?

Statistically, it makes no sense to argue that tens/hundreds/thousands more American blacks are worse "because of" slavery, which ended 160 years ago, when almost all living today have affirmative action giving them equal opportunies.

An apples-to-apples comparison would seek to explain why the hundreds/thousands more American blacks with pre-med educations will STILL be inferior to African black med students.

wholelottasplainin said...

Howard said...
John Henry: I don't know what needs to be done. What I do know is that reparations (40 acres and a mule)is a reasonable option that should not be dismissed out of hand. Assume prime agricultural land value of $7,500/acre and a mule at a value of a new F250 with farm kit at $50,000 equals a one-time payment of $350K. 37.145 Millian American blacks the total bill comes to $13 Trillion.

*******************

Yeah. American blacks who have never experienced a second of slavery should hit the jackpot, and other Americans who had nothing to do with slavery aside from living here now, should be impoverished.

Yeah, that'll work.

GODDAMN you are a dumbass.

Is there any more potent a recipe for Civil War than that?

chickelit said...

“Assume prime agricultural land value of $7,500/acre and a mule at a value of a new F250 with farm kit at $50,000 equals a one-time payment of $350K. 37.145 Millian American blacks the total bill comes to $13 Trillion.”

That “prime agricultural land” is not owned by the feds but is probably owned by (armed) white farmers in the Midwest. Is there a precedent for taking land from white farmers?

Howard said...

Chick: Our girls outperform the world on every measure because Title IX

chickelit said...

“GODDAMN you are a dumbass.”

Relax, Elink. Howard has a long history of saying absurd things just to inflame people like you (and me). Crack on the other hand, has Althouse’s blessing. Howard is just another Ritmo wannabe.

Michael K said...

this is a tangible evidence of the after effects of Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, red-lining, gentrification, etc, etc.

No, it is the tangible effects of the present victim culture that infects the black American community and is absent from the West Indian community and real African community who come here and thrive.

One possible theory is that slaves were the losers in west African wars but that does not explain the Nigerian Ibos.

I think it is the "reparations" mentality of people like Crack that causes the psychopathology,

chickelit said...

Title IX is just another name for entitlement.

Michael K said...


Blogger Howard said...
Chick: Our girls outperform the world on every measure because Title IX


They don't outperform the trannies, like the one that won the Tucson women's division bike race in 2017.

Trannies will kill women's competitive sports.

Congratulations, Howard.

chickelit said...

@Howard: a $500 billion vs $13 trillion choice is a false dichotomy anyways. A couple years ago, the number Crack was kicking around for reparations was in the trillions anyway.

narciso said...

Btw what do those characters transliterate to?

Howard said...

Blogger Чикелит said...

That “prime agricultural land” is not owned by the feds but is probably owned by (armed) white farmers in the Midwest. Is there a precedent for taking land from white farmers?


chickie, I'm turning acres into cash with that calc, dipshit.

chickelit said...

@Howard: I got that w/o your help. Unfortunately, your not as clear a writer as Ritmo.

Still, as I said, false dichotomy.

chickelit said...

The real question is not “how much” but rather “whether.”

Howard said...

Doc Mike is always quick on the trannie trigger... it's an obsession with xer

chickelit said...

“Btw what do those characters transliterate to?”

Chickelit. My original handle here was chickenlittle. When Twitter came along, I couldn’t have that moniker and so I started lopping out letters until I had something unique.

Michael K said...

Howard said...
Doc Mike is always quick on the trannie trigger... it's an obsession with xer


Hey ! I'm not running races . You're the Title IX guy.

It's your problem big Title IX guy.

Rick said...

Lovernios said...
I think I've stated clearly my idea. So let me ask you fellows a few questions:

Are black Americans your fellow citizens?
Is America better off with a permanent underclass of angry, resentful citizens?


The key to understanding reparation politics is that nothing about reparations will ever reduce the level of permanently angry and resentful citizens. The entire political program of the left is to foment this feeling. Giving in does not lead to reconciliation but to escalating demands. This is not new or limited to blacks in America, it has been the single motivating force of leftist politics for over 200 years. America could pay the full amount asked by reputable advocates or ten times that amount and the only result would be to increase future demands for both dollar reparations and "soft" reparations like diversity mandates and subsidies for black controlled institutions. These are additional taxes your employer pays for the right to hire productive people.

It is simply the nature of people to use whatever arguments work to achieve their goals. Much of the left believes it is less difficult to argue for the rest of society to support them than to perform productive work. As long as they believe that they will continue to spend their lives trying to take what others produce rather than contribute to society themselves.

Howard said...

chicken little: Thanks for providing Jay with a trigger warning. You snowflakes need to look out for one another.

The Crack Emcee said...

Darkisland said...

"I think that everyone who believes in homeopathy knows that too."

You're a creep taking advantage of people.

Howard said...

Pro-rated to the 3.7 Million Blacks at the end of the civil war gives a $ 1.3Trillion current value to 40-acres and a mule, or about $35K a piece. Chump Change considering the endless chickenhawk war on terror has cost $5.6 Trillion so far and yielded nothing but instability, death and destruction.

The Crack Emcee said...

Gahrie said...

"Damn Crack...you and I were both buying comic books from the same store at the same time probably. (There were two comic books stores in Gardena in the 70's and I shopped at both when I visited grandma's)"

Now, I know that's true, because I know that's true - there WERE only two comic book stores in Gardena when I shopped there - one in a shopping mall and one that wasn't - can't remember the names today, but that much was definitely true.

Howard said...

The bottom line is that republicands would rather murder arabs at a cost than pay off the debt of slavery. Figure we murdered 500,000 arabs directly and indirectly, that's a cost of $11 Million per dead arab.

Howard said...

I don't see why we can't get the cost to kill arabs down to $100K per and use the remaining money for reparations.

The Crack Emcee said...

Lovernios said...

"The black shine boys guarded their turf diligently. If we got caught impinging on their territory we'd have to run for it or get our asses whupped."

Turf. Oh boy. Every block in South Central was it's own war zone, each guarded by it's own gang, with shifting allegiances almost from house to house. I lived right on the border, between the Crips and the Bloods, so there was no "safe space" - ever. A simple walk to the store around the corner demanded strategy - and some physical prowess. You basically left the house a person, and then contorted yourself into a rat, to reach your destination. The return trip always started with a sigh because I knew - if I'd made it to the store - my luck was running out. Really. I'm talking about two blocks, here, people.

That was "home" in America.

Qwinn said...

My favorite Crack shtick is when he whines that all he's doing is just *talking*, just stating his innocent position for favoring reparations, and it always leads to hysterical attacks against him by a crazed mob of white people, why, he gets lynched daily for just talking, just ask him!

Never mind that his innocent "talking" includes insulting all white people both collectively and as individuals (except John McCain, apparently) in practically every single post (unless he's boring us to death with his New Age shtick. Oh wait, he gets racism into that too.). It includes repeatedly insisting whites are all "horrible people". It includes making absurd statements that are internally inconsistent with one another, then when someone points out the contradic4ion, rather than explain his brilliant insight, he just tells you he HAS brilliant insight (it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand) and then calls you a moron for not just instantly understanding his illogical and inconsistent blather.

But it's a grave injustice that he gets insults in return! So unfair! It's a daily lynching of Crack here at Althouse for no conceivable reason! Naturally, when Crack is insulting everyone and being as literally racist as humanly possible, that's "just talking", but when we respond by challenging his bullshit, only to be met with more insults, until we finally insult him back in kind (and usually much less than he's dished out), WE aren't "just talking", oh no, OUR insults are actual violence.

Crack ie a vile and ultra racist troll and con artist who deserves every bit of misery his pathologies keep him in.

The Crack Emcee said...

Original Mike said...

”...and the revenues generated by those leases could be used to assist black Americans.”

How is that materially different than what we’ve been doing for 50+ years?

Qwinn wanted to know what was "effectively" different, while you want to know what's "materially" different - you guys, the difference is in those damn "qualifiers" whites use to try and wiggle out of it. How you don't recognize that as the same tactic racists have been using for centuries - while you're living in America and claiming to know the place - is a mystery. You know the difference between a paycheck and a gift, but you play dumb, hoping something will be said to give you an out from paying.

Whether it's the bullshit whites pulled to bring slaves into Mexico or the antics of BBQ Becky, whites are dishonest when they want to be - and we know it - so the nation is more dishonest, than it admits, based on their behavior. (70% of the nation is white, someone, here, said - calling it "our" nation - referring to whites). They set the standards - so now there are none.

There probably never were.

The Crack Emcee said...

Lovernios said...

"I would not have direct payments made to individuals. My preference would be to use these funds to start businesses, college scholarships, community projects and the like."

That would negate the whole premise of us finally being a free people - free of other's influence over our lives. Reparations has two parts for a reason: the first is to define to everyone WHY they're being paid, and the second is the payment itself. If the historical component is ignored or given short shrift - and I keep telling you blacks live for the historical component - then, I expect, it WILL be a disaster as many envision. But, put Dr. King and others at the forefront of our ambitions as a nation, and we'll be fine. Better off than ever, I think, because we can finally stop fighting over the shit and (as blacks see it) our ancestors can finally rest in peace. Sure, we'll see some crazy stuff - and some blacks may even leave - but the vast majority will be glad, and grateful, to finally live in "our" nation as well.

Then - like a normal nation - things like military service, for instance, wouldn't feel weird or have a double-edged meaning. It would just be serving your nation. That can't happen now. It should've happened a long time ago.

Achilles said...

The Crack Emcee said...

Qwinn wanted to know what was "effectively" different, while you want to know what's "materially" different - you guys, the difference is in those damn "qualifiers" whites use to try and wiggle out of it.


All white people are the same. We all believe the same thing. We are all responsible for everything every other white person does. There are no individuals and no white person can claim to be a good person because some white people were bad at some point.


How you don't recognize that as the same tactic racists have been using for centuries - while you're living in America and claiming to know the place - is a mystery. You know the difference between a paycheck and a gift, but you play dumb, hoping something will be said to give you an out from paying.

How you don't recognize you are using the same tactics racists have been using for centuries is a mystery. You paint everyone who looks a particular way based on their skin color. All white people are guilty of what some other white people did.

You are just like the KKK but you play dumb hoping you will get to take someone else's stuff.

You have no idea why America is what it is now. The fact that you think it is because of black slave labor and exploitation of black people just shows you are a deluded tool.

Hint: Sherman burned down most of the shit Southern Progressives built with slave labor.

Oh, and it looks like South Africa decided not to go take all of the white man's stuff after Trump gave them a heads up.

It seems someone down there is smarter than you.

The Crack Emcee said...

Qwinn said...

"Blacks consumed various forms of welfare at 3 to 5 times the rate that whites did across every program, and you're arguing this did not represent a massive transfer of wealth to blacks?"

Yes. And what does the fact that blacks hold just $5.00, for every $100 a white family has, represent - other than a massive crime?

The Crack Emcee said...

"I just wanted to know why you think this is going to work. Past results would indicate otherwise."

Yeah, the Japanese have been a real pain-in-the-ass.

The Crack Emcee said...

Qwinn said...

"The vast bulk of the cash came from white taxpayers. The receivers of the cash were disproportionately black."

You make 13% of the nation - and we're only talking about a fraction of that - sound like the biggest group of people this nation has. Welfare's fraction of the 70% of whites totally swamps us, but you don't care - gotta get those niggers off the payroll!!!!

But you're not racist.

n.n said...

All white people are the same.

The white class as defined by diversitists. A monochromatic clump of cells as defined by abortionists.

How you don't recognize you are using the same tactics racists have been using for centuries

Color judgments based on skin, not principle. They even had the audacity of relabeling Jew privilege as White privilege. As if people are ignorant of its roots and aftermath.

Rick said...

Lovernios said...
So the idea that any reparations will be in the form of taking money from me!!!! seems to be very strongly held. I'm surprised that no one can think of any alternatives....It doesn't have to be a direct transfer. It won't come out of your pocket.


This same argument was pushed by a different economically illiterate commenter recently. It amounts to the argument that since taking your bank account doesn't reduce your income it doesn't effect you.

The talking points you're parroting need work.

n.n said...

All white people are the same. We all believe the same thing.

Black people. White people. Female people. Fetuses, offspring, babies deemed unworthy (i.e. selective-child), or profitable (i.e. recycled-child), and sentenced to summary abortion.

The Crack Emcee said...

Gahrie said...

"So Republicans should attempt to buy the support of the Black community by giving them government handouts like the Democrats did?"

This is a man who adamantly refuses to acknowledge his nation isn't perfect, and has committed crimes against it's own people, that it should atone and pay for.

It is truly, amazingly, stupid.

The Crack Emcee said...

Gahrie said...

"Perhaps, just perhaps, the people receiving welfare make poor decisions that prevent them from accumulating wealth"

Perhaps - except that's been studied to death and turns out not to be true - so, please, Massa Gahrie, shut up.

The Crack Emcee said...

Darkisland said...

"What more could be done? I think this is huge. Huger than better welfare programs. Huger than reparations."

Because you're not dealing with GENERATIONAL POVERTY as an issue - just one guy getting a paycheck. Trump solves nothing.

The Crack Emcee said...

Darkisland said...

"If you are able to save anything from the cash payments, you are obviously receiving too much and are cheating the system."

BWAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This place is Hell.

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...


"Stripped of [the anger that arises from whites dogging him with their ignorance of subjects they insist on yelling about] Crack's argument boils down to this,...."

FIFY

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

Crack, you're a real piece of work, aren't you?
*************

"No . He's a worthless POS. Nothing more."

Funny, but I got two decades of newspaper clippings here that say otherwise. The word "genius" occurs more often than even I'm comfortable with, sometimes, so your comments keep me grounded - even if I know you're wrong:

I'm like Terrell Owens and Bill Burr, and know, as long as I'm big enough to piss the likes of you off, that's enough.

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

"Snort."

I swear, every time I see this, I see this guy.

It cracks me UP!

n.n said...

transgender-cyclist-is-top-female-finisher-at-el-tour-de

Transgender/crossover is top neo-female. Conflation of sex and gender hurts both feminine females and transgender/homosexual females who do not have the physiological advantage endowed to him by Nature.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"If Doc's observations are true (a stretch perhaps), this is a tangible evidence of the after effects of Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, red-lining, gentrification, etc, etc."

And it also might be proof, since Doc misreads the situation, that he's a bad teacher.

The Crack Emcee said...

narciso said...

"No, because they appreciate education more than native born African Americans, it is more a cultural than racial dynamic, but Liz Warren has been a fraud for 30 some years in terms of representational and academic reasons"

BWAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You guys kill me. How long did whites keep an education from blacks in America? But you talk of this "cultural" difference as though it's innate and had nothing to do with anything but intelligence.

Man, white people are CORROSIVE to this nation.

The Crack Emcee said...

MountainMan said...

"Deciding who should be the beneficiaries is a very difficult problem."

BWAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

We sent men to the moon, but,....

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

"Where, exactly did Doc Mike make this claim??"

He makes it repeatedly, now sit down and shut up.

The Crack Emcee said...

Michael K said...

this is a tangible evidence of the after effects of Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, red-lining, gentrification, etc, etc.

"No, it is the tangible effects of the present victim culture" BECAUSE THOSE OTHER THINGS NEVER HAPPENED!!!!

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"The key to understanding reparation politics is that nothing about reparations will ever reduce the level of permanently angry and resentful citizens."

Why do you guys keep telling the same lies to yourselves? You haven't tried it, so you don't know what the effects will be - and, where it's been tried, the effects HAVEN'T been as you say - so you're wrong there, too.

Just shut up if you have nothing constructive to add.

Muhammad Ahmad Saeed Chaudhary said...

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Rick said...

You haven't tried it, so you don't know what the effects will be - and, where it's been tried, the effects HAVEN'T been as you say - so you're wrong there, too.

We have tried it. Roosevelt's WPA led to demands to raise wages for the WPA employees. Wagner unionism to create a legal space to protest led to demands illegal trespassing and destruction of property be normalized. Affirmative Action led to race preferences. Unemployment insurance leads to demands for UBI. Government spending 42% of GDP lead to demands it spend 50%.

Just shut up if you have nothing constructive to add.

Fuck off you useless sack of shit.

MountainMan said...

“We sent men to the moon, but,....”

That is even more irrelevant - by several orders of magnitude - than the analogy to the Japanese internment. The two,problems are not even in the same domain. That’s just a cheap, overused cliche that leftists always seem to use when the know their position is untenable.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Blogger The Crack Emcee said...


BWAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This place is Hell.


So what are you saying, Crack?

That if welfare (defined broadly) recipients were able to accumulate any wealth (say $1,000 or so) the agencies would allow them to keep it?

This is why what President Trump is doing for blacks is so huge. When they are working, it is their own money and they can do with it whatever they choose. They can save and accumulate some capital/wealth or they can piss it away on whatever. Some will do one, others the latter, most a bit of both. Just like most every other human being.

John Henry

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Blogger The Crack Emcee said...


Because you're not dealing with GENERATIONAL POVERTY as an issue - just one guy getting a paycheck. Trump solves nothing.

And how does more welfare, or reparations, break the generational poverty issue?

And how does the one guy, or gal, getting the paycheck NOT break the generational poverty issue? When they are getting a paycheck they are no longer dependent on the welfare. They will be able to start working up to better and better jobs and break out of poverty. That and that alone is what breaks the generational chain of poverty. Able is the key word there. Some will, others wont, but pretty much all will be able to if they take the opportunities.

Yes, the next generation may sink back into poverty and some will. But most won't.

John Henry

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

You guys kill me. How long did whites keep an education from blacks in America?

Educational benefits, where the company pays tuition costs, are a fairly common benefit in the US. Yeah, it involves some work, doing a job during the day and going to school at night, but lots of people do it.

What's the percentage of blacks vs whites vs Puerto Ricans vs Cubans, vs Mexicans vs Jews etc availing themselves of this opportunity?

Do you have any idea, Crack?

When the Irish, in Ireland, were legally forbidden education by the British, their priests started "Hedge schools". When the Irish, and the Italians, in America were pretty much shut out of the education system they started their own schools via the church.

Jews, to a lesser extent. They mainly demanded the govt provide schools and made it happen.

Lots of other examples like this in US educational history.

Let's also not forget who funded all the (still segregated) colleges like Morehouse, Spellman, Howard and the other so-called historically black schools. Rockefeller spent a lot of his wealth on them. Does that count as reparations? I've never thought of them this way but perhaps you might.

John Henry

Kirk Parker said...

Livernios @12:14pm,

On the generous theory that you are serious and not trolling... I just have to ask: what on Earth is there about our last century of experience that makes you trust that reparations would actually "close the wound" and make it stay closed for everyone???

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