April 27, 2018

The wisdom of Kanye.

A series of tweets from Kanye West, yesterday, from oldest to newest:
Your conscience should allow a physical manifestation of your subconscious but right now most peoples conscious is too affected by other people’s thoughts and it creates a disconnect from you doing what you actually feel now

Instead of doing what you feel
you just do what other people think you should do

it's really cool to say I hate you. But it's not cool to say I love you. Love has a stigma

we are more worried about what we can lose than what we feel

spread love. Put more love into the universe.

Artist transform tragedy into beauty
I'm afraid commenters will be distracted by the use of "subconscious" and "conscious" as nouns (they are, officially, only adjectives), whether the use of the word "conscience" (a bona fide noun) led to this confusion, and whether West even knows the difference between "conscience" and "conscious." But West is (I think!) considered a genius in the use of language, so I recommend beginning with the assumption that he's saying something important in words that millions of people can feel and understand in a deep way.

ADDED: Let me pursue the fleeting thought that West is "considered a genius." Writing this post, I thought of Bob Dylan, because the line "you just do what other people think you should do" made me think of Bob's "One Of Us Must Know (Sooner Or Later)": "But, sooner or later, one of us must know/You just did what you’re supposed to do...."

That got me looking for comparisons between West and Dylan, and there was a lot of material. Much of it was something I'm sure I've already blogged: a linguistic study that showed Kanye West used a larger vocabulary in his songs than Bob Dylan:
Eminem was found to have the widest lyrical vocabulary of all, using 8,818 different words – almost double Dylan’s 4,883 and over four times more diverse than the lyrical content of the Beatles. He was closely followed by Jay Z, whose musical vocabulary encompassed 6,899 words, and West, who has 5,069 unique words in his repertoire, ensuring that hip-hop overwhelmingly emerged as the most lyrically expansive genre overall, greatly exceeding the average lyrical vocabulary size of 2,677 words.

West’s high rankings in the analysis could prove particularly interesting in light of a backlash against the rapper about the worth of his music. “He can’t write, sing, or play. At all,” tweeted David Crosby of Crosby Stills and Nash last month, describing West as “dumb as a post – he creates nothing”.
Ha ha. David Crosby. I was just listening him giving an interview on Alec Baldwin's podcast. He insults a lot of people. Using a bigger set of words than the we-know-he's-a-genius Bob Dylan doesn't  insure that Kanye West is a genius. Some of the worst writers dump words onto the page straight from the thesaurus, without a feeling for idiomatic speech or even the specific meanings.

Here's a piece from WaPo's music critic Chris Richards, from 2015: "Kanye West, Bob Dylan and why one man’s trash talk is another man’s treasure": Kanye West had just said Beck should give up his Grammy to BeyoncĂ©, and Bob Dylan had "specifically dissed Merle Haggard, Tom T. Hall, Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller." Dylan's "trash talk" got a much nicer reception than West's. Richards thought it should have been the other way around:
And on Sunday, West was an agitator at a lethargic Grammy ceremony in desperate need of some agitation — and his trash talk was completely germane. West wanted to know why the Grammys consistently fail to recognize innovative pop music in its own time and he refused to sit back and watch history get written. It wasn’t polite, but politeness doesn’t bring change.

Dylan’s dirty laundry session on Friday night was a bit more mysterious. Like Michael Jordan delivering his unexpectedly sour Hall of Fame enshrinement speech in 2009, the bard seemed to be settling old scores, calling out songwriters who he felt had slighted him or just did lousy work. Here was this colossus of American song, exposing himself as an insecure human being, just like the rest of us. Still trying to win the game, a competitor to the end.
So ends my little search. The sense that there was a lot of material shriveled and died after I got past that linguistic study.

AND: Here's my 2015 post on that linguistic study.

97 comments:

rhhardin said...

It's a know your audience thing.

rhhardin said...

Making friends with a bike-chasing dog is the same way.

Achilles said...

If he was an Obama supporter like Oprah he would be considered brilliant. There would be stories about how he should run in 20/20 and how brilliant he is.

Just look at the difference in how they are treated.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Subconscious is officially a noun.

Bay Area Guy said...

Black men of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your Democrat chains!

Gahrie said...

If he was an Obama supporter like Oprah he would be considered brilliant. There would be stories about how he should run in 20/20 and how brilliant he is.

There were stories that he should run in 2020....quite a few of them. Right up to the point he was checked into a mental hospital.

While I would never vote for him (unless he was running against Hillary, Kerry or Gore) I think he should run. It would be interesting and perhaps game changing.

Oso Negro said...

Love, love, love. Love is all you need. There, I've said it. I'm a rock star. Oh here's another clue for you all - you can penetrate anywhere you go. I told you so.

traditionalguy said...

Will he or won't he replace Pence with West on the 2020 ticket. 50-50 chance.

Oso Negro said...

It would be interesting if Skype (which now helpfully suggests responses in conversations) had a Beatles chat mode that only allowed you to converse in Beatles lyrics.

Tom - "I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me."

Dick - "You can penetrate anywhere you go"

It would be easier than a Dylan chat mode, but that would probably be more interesting to our hostess.

Rob said...

West's flirtation with good sense is all very nice, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He remains a narcissistic dope.

PM said...

One person's deep thoughts are another person's Kitten Posters.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Instead of doing what you feel
you just do what other people think you should do

"it's really cool to say I hate you. But it's not cool to say I love you. Love has a stigma

"we are more worried about what we can lose than what we feel"

Diagnosed the cultural problem right there.

Chuck said...

Oswald Bates is the true modern genius of the language. I think Oswald Bates is Kanye's inspiration.

Quaestor said...

Shorter Kayne: Don't be a meat puppet.

Ken B said...

Who mights? Might be voice recognition.
The interesting part is watching the cognitive dissonance. Mostly from Democrats but also from some who used to hate Kanye West for his Bush comments.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Conscious is also a noun according to Merriam-Webster. But can anything about the English language be considered official?

Here’s the Kanye challenge for Althouse commenters: Can you love Hillary Clinton the way he loves Donald Trump?

Quaestor said...

Kanye may not be a genius, but he's on the right track. Dichotomy, hierarchy, and intersectional are nowhere to be seen.

traditionalguy said...

The first thing white people have to do to end knee jerk racist bias is to judge a man by the content of his character. Or so said a famous Atlantan. Kanye seeks truth and has courage to speak it boldly. If that makes him into a jerk, then Je suis un Jerke.

Henry said...

My favorite part of the essay is the declaration that a few of the participants are, officially, only adjectives.

"Let me see your papers," says the noun.

Quaestor said...

Conscious is also a noun according to Merriam-Webster.

Another example of jargon evolving into semi-legitimate words. I suppose the translators of Freud occasionally used the adjective without its noun as a stylistic move to reduce the number of times they used mind in the same piece of text. But to extend the courtesy to laymen is pushing a boundary that's far too weakened to the detriment of clarity and sound reasoning as it is. If you're not speaking as a psychoanalyst, conscious should always be an adjective.

Ken B said...

Most adjectives can be used as nouns in a substantive construction. “Which argument of Althouse’s interests you, the irrelevant or the incorrect? The incorrect.” Incorrect is a substantive there (one of these annoying words I use that Althouse doesn’t).

robother said...

Interesting to examine Hamlet's "Conscience doth make cowards of us all" in light of Kanye's observation:

"right now most peoples conscious is too affected by other people’s thoughts...."

At least old time religion bowed to the notion that individuals had a natural morality. PC as a post-modern morality simply imposes an ever-changing group moral code (speeches well as action) on individuals, challenging each individual to prove that his mind is right, that he is not secretly one of those hateful or deplorable people.

DAN said...

Is there an Althouse tag for grammar (spelling?) mistakes social media is allowing, maybe even encouraging? "Artist", "racist" and so on -- anything ending in "ist" is singular or plural. We seem headed toward a world of people only listening, not reading.

Ann Althouse said...

"Another example of jargon evolving into semi-legitimate words. I suppose the translators of Freud occasionally used the adjective without its noun as a stylistic move to reduce the number of times they used mind in the same piece of text. But to extend the courtesy to laymen is pushing a boundary that's far too weakened to the detriment of clarity and sound reasoning as it is. If you're not speaking as a psychoanalyst, conscious should always be an adjective."

It wasn't a noun in the OED, but I looked in my old copy of the American Heritage unabridged dictionary and found it listed as a term in psychoanalysis.

brian said...

With the conscious, subconscious comment, I am reminded of Brian Wilson and Pet Sounds, in which Brian works through some of his own 'hang ups' with language that clearly came from his therapist.

Ann Althouse said...

"If you're not speaking as a psychoanalyst, conscious should always be an adjective."

But what if you're tweeting as Kanye West? It's certainly acceptable to innovate. The question is: Does Kanye know what he's doing? But what does that even mean? The real question for him is: Does it work? And that is where the post is trying to point you.

Bay Area Guy said...

"Here’s the Kanye challenge for Althouse commenters: Can you love Hillary Clinton the way he loves Donald Trump?"

God, No.

n.n said...

Dichotomy, hierarchy, and intersectional are nowhere to be seen.

Nor are [color] diversity, [sex] chauvinism, or [political] congruence. Just individual dignity and intrinsic value. He seems to be a couple of steps ahead of the "popular" culture.

Ann Althouse said...

I mean, I made up the adjective "we-know-he's-a-genius" and I obviously approve of writing like that and expect readers to enjoy it (and therefore also approve of it as a way to write).

Carter Wood said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

If that makes him into a jerk, then Je suis un Jerke.

Ce Jerke, ce quoi ça? Non, votre sont un blaireau comme moi.

Ken B said...

Interesting to see Lieber and Stoller mentioned. Better song writers IMO.
Stand by Me
Jailhouse Rock
Hound Dog
Is that All There Is
Kansas City

Paddy O said...

"Conservatives Urge Nation Never To Listen To Rich, Out-Of-Touch Celebrities Unless They Say Conservative Things"

Ken B said...

Actually Paddy O, conservatives would LOVE to have voters listen to Sean Penn, Oliver Stone, Danny Glover, Robert DeNiro say unconservative things.

n.n said...

The liberal and progressive sects of the Pro-Choice Church deny individual dignity, deny intrinsic value, and favor construction of political congruences when it suits their purposes. As for Clinton, she is part of the Obama/Clinton/DNC axis that spied on Americans, colluded with foreign parties, and denied the nomination to the Jew. Then there are the social justice adventures (e.g. elective regime changes) that opened abortion fields, forced refugee crises (CAIR), and with the affiliated press covered-up the causes. The multi-trimester warlock hunts, including: multi-decadal, evidence-free assertions, denial of due process, and trial by press, did not help their cause.

Yancey Ward said...

Adjectives used like nouns always have unspoken nouns to modify. For example- my unconscious (mind). Of course, the proper formulation for this is either to speak the noun, or to modify the adjective itself- for example- my unconsciousness.

Yancey Ward said...

It is going to be interesting to see if they can break West- they will definitely try hard to do so, and I will make a prediction right now- he gets accused of something illegal within the week.

rhhardin said...

"Kanye West, Bob Dylan and why one man’s trash talk is another man’s treasure"

Economics, on recycling programs. How do you tell trash from treasure? Somebody will pay you for treasure.

If you have to pay somebody to take it away, it's trash.

Quaestor said...

Althouse wrote: It's certainly acceptable to innovate.

I think I agree with Kayne's tweet, but then I don't know exactly what he means by the imprecision of his language, which is the trap we set for ourselves when we stopped demanding its proper usage. English is the stuff of society just as mathematics is the stuff of engineering. When we go down the road of imprecision — decimal here, a misused adjective there — it isn't too long before the bridges collapse.

Like anything else there are limits. Unless you are Humpty Dumpty.

Carter Wood said...

Kanye, please crawl out your window.

wwww said...



I do not understand what is so surprising about these Kayne tweets. Granted, he does and has acted weird in the past. But there's nothing alien or surprising about the idea of spreading love in society that is culturally influenced by Christianity.

About a year ago I was at a church service. In the service the minister stated, "I love Donald Trump." Went on to discuss the value of love.

Kayne doesn't vote. To see this solely through the lens of formal politics is limiting. You can love someone and disagree with that person. You can love a sinner. You can love a saint. You can love someone who watches a different cable news channel.

If you do not, you should attempt to love people who are not exactly like you. People who watch different news channels. People who vote differently then you. People who are the President, and people who are poor and homeless. This is Christian-standard attitude towards the world.

That said, Kayne is kind of odd. He wanted people to pay him money for his videos. I see his music as average, and would not call him a genius. Then again, maybe Althouse loves his music and thinks he's a genius. That's fine, but we've got a difference of opinion on his talent.

Jupiter said...

I note that Mr. West uses "peoples" as a possessive, without an apostrophe. Is this something to do with the difficulty of composing text on the dysfunctional little toy computers all the morons carry around with them now, or is this an example of why West is considered a genius in the use of language?

Michael said...

Instead of doing what you feel
you just do what other people think you should do


The true definition of Virtue Signalling

.

J. Farmer said...

It is my impression that Kanye West is decidedly not "considered a genius in the use of language." He is perhaps a musical genius and an incredibly talented musical producer, but West has never been particularly praised for his lyricism as far as I know. Figures like Eminem, Nas, and Biggie Smalls would all be considered much better lyricists than West. One of West's (and Eminem's) most important contributions to the genre were the inclusion of a lot of introspective lyrics and references to personal events in his childhood. He helped to move the genre away from the "gangsta" persona that had come to so dominate hip-hop in the 1990s.

William said...

Dixie Chicks effect. I'm still not going to listen to any of Kanye's music. Who knew that there were 4,832 synonyms for booty and pussy?......Kanye is a born flake. Wait long enough, and he will say something lunatic, although, just at this minute, he's saying something I agree with..........If only Lorenz Hart or Ira Gershwin had used their lyric gifts to proselytize socialism, they would today be as celebrated as Pete Seeger or maybe even Woodie Guthrie.

Quaestor said...

What Adam Ford and evidently Paddy O do not know is a famous aphorism: Liberals want conservatives to shut up. Conservatives want liberals to keep talking.

Looking over the Babylon Bee, which according to Wikipedia models itself on The Onion, I'd say it has failed rather miserably.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

With the conscious, subconscious comment, I am reminded of Brian Wilson and Pet Sounds, in which Brian works through some of his own 'hang ups' with language that clearly came from his therapist.

Examples? I love that album but haven't listened to it in a while. Would love to dust it off and hear it from a different perspective.

Jupiter said...

"But West is (I think!) considered a genius in the use of language ..."

Interesting use of language there. I take it that you think someone considers West to be a genius in the use of language, but you are unable, or unwilling, to say whom that might be. Not yourself? I am in a position to say, with confidence, that Kanye West is considered to be a blithering idiot, an arrogant buffoon, and a cheap grifter.

Quaestor said...

Is this something to do with the difficulty of composing text on the dysfunctional little toy computers all the morons carry around with them now, or is this an example of why West is considered a genius in the use of language?

Let's grant Kanye the immunity of fat fingers.

I have a life full of regrets. Buying an iPad is one of them.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Can you love Hillary Clinton the way he loves Donald Trump?

I don't know if it's the same way Kanye loves Trump, but I can absolutely love Hillary. She's a human being and I want her to be happy and healthy. I wish she'd work on acceptance as a spiritual discipline, and on counting and enjoying her manifold blessings, because those things would make her happy and healthy, which in my opinion she currently is not. It also makes me sad when people belittle her based on her appearance or make tacky jokes about how unfuckable she is. I don't agree with or support her on any level, but I am perfectly willing to love her as a fellow human with worth and dignity.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

It's my responsibility as a Christian to ask the Holy Spirit's assistance in seeing God in every other human and loving them as my Father loves me. It's not always easy (noisy eaters, looking at you) but it's not always hard, either.

Nonapod said...

Imploring people to love and forgive is about as Christian a message as you can get. Kanye enjoys drawing parallels between himself and Jesus (remember Yeezus?). None of this is new or particularly revelatory.

The banal feel-goodism of his Tweets aren't what's interesting here. It's the subject and response to them. Since the election, the left in this country seems to be absolutely consumed by hate and rage toward Trump. A huge pop culture figure like Kanye pointing that out to them is obviously just going to get them angrier, initially. It's also going to encourage a lot mockery. For example, it's all but inevitable that there's going to be some sketch on SNL that will be less than charitable with Kanye.

But ultimately it will be interesting to see if people on the left are able to be more self aware when it comes to their feelings about Trump. Will some of them be able to separate their feelings about Trump, their personal disgust with him, from what Trump has actually done?

wildswan said...

When The Ship Comes In
WRITTEN BY: BOB DYLAN

"Oh the time will come up
When the winds will stop
And the breeze will cease to be breathin’
Like the stillness in the wind
’Fore the hurricane begins
The hour when the ship comes in
...
And the words that are used
For to get the ship confused
Will not be understood as they’re spoken
For the chains of the sea
Will have busted in the night
And will be buried at the bottom of the ocean
...
Then they’ll raise their hands
Sayin’ we’ll meet all your demands
But we’ll shout from the bow your days are numbered
And like Pharoah’s tribe
They’ll be drownded in the tide
And like Goliath, they’ll be conquered."

Ann Althouse said...

"I note that Mr. West uses "peoples" as a possessive, without an apostrophe. Is this something to do with the difficulty of composing text on the dysfunctional little toy computers all the morons carry around with them now, or is this an example of why West is considered a genius in the use of language?"

He writes "most peoples conscious is too affected by other people’s thoughts" — so he knows to use the apostrophe, but he doesnt bother to use it every time. Doesn't that makes sense?

traditionalguy said...

Amazing to see a talented man named Kanye pushing the positive and the possibility of Trump being a good President for African Americans, while many bitter people can only see Kanye as being a known terrible criminal. That is amazing. The brain washing is strong. That proves Kanye's point about the Trumpian zeitgeist being new opportunity to free our minds. If a Little Rocket Man can do it, we can do it too.

Anonymous said...

Come on, people! Stop swooning! Next month this guy could be saying the
weather is controlled by the Jews.

Paddy O said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jupiter said...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
"It's my responsibility as a Christian to ask the Holy Spirit's assistance in seeing God in every other human and loving them as my Father loves me. It's not always easy (noisy eaters, looking at you) but it's not always hard, either."

I admire your Christian charity, and recognize that it was and is something new in the World. But I am also aware that we have negative emotions for reasons, and we reward our friends and punish our enemies for reasons. Hate the sin, love the sinner? But the sin cannot exist without the sinner. The sin exists because the sinner chooses it. And the sin has victims. If you want to turn the other cheek, go ahead. But is it virtuous to forgive a sin that does you no harm, but harms others?

Jaq said...

I don't think that "love thine enemy" means that you have to let her win.

Scott said...

In West's first tweet, try replacing "conscience" and "conscious" with "superego" and see if it makes more sense. Just sayin'.

Earnest Prole said...

A genius narcissist savant bromance in orange and black.

whitney said...

Did you see that Kanye was posting Jordan Peterson videos earlier. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around what's going on in the world right now.

Scott said...

Black argot is an emblematic characteristic of their cultural franchise. English diction is slop-shotted on the billiard table of the musical context's intricacy and color. Adlibs define the thematic line by describing the artist's relationship to it. Or something.

themightypuck said...

Here's the Jordan Peterson video that may have red pilled Kanye
Why You Need Art in Your Life

Scott said...

bromance = romancing bromides

Jim at said...

I still can't be made to care what Kayne West thinks or says.

But the fact he's driving the left completely bat-guano insane is good enough for me.

Scott said...

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

wwww said...

"If you want to turn the other cheek, go ahead. But is it virtuous to forgive a sin that does you no harm, but harms others?"

Interesting question.

We should not enable dangerous or destructive situations. Forgiveness and grace do not require us to do so.

Negative emotions are not necessary over the long term, and don't do much good. They can serve a function if they are used as a in-the-moment warning to get you away from a dangerous situation or person. Acting with grace or letting go of negative emotions does not mean you should put yourself in a damaging or dangerous situation.

For the medium or long term, negative emotions tend to be damaging, both to the person who holds onto them & to the world in general. We will encounter the faults, sins, illness and incapacities of others. I try to act with grace, logic, rationality and understanding. Doesn't mean I succeed, but that's the goal. I have found that anger or negative emotions do not help situations.

That does not mean we should accept negative behaviour. But one doesn't need to be angry and hateful to stop negative behaviour, or remove oneself from it.




Paul Mac said...

Reminded me of this song for some reason You Don't Know What Love Is (You Just Do As You're Told) The White Stripes

Big Mike said...

Clarence Thomas, Tom Sowell, and the Steele twins broke the code. Now Diamond & Silk and West have broken it.

Trump’s message to the black community: the Democrats brought your sons Midnight Basketball but I brought your children jobs.

Quaestor said...

Althouse wrote: He writes "most peoples conscious is too affected by other people’s thoughts" — so he knows to use the apostrophe, but he doesnt bother to use it every time. Doesn't that makes sense?

A simple typo makes more sense, Occam's razor and all that.

Wake up and smell the covfefe.

Drago said...

Carter Wood: "Kanye, please crawl out your window."

Why? Is there an 18,000 sq ft terrace with hot tub overlooking the Hollywood Hills there?

I'm not sure what climbing out the window will accomplish that simply walking thru the french doors wouldn't.

J. Farmer said...

@Big Mike:

Clarence Thomas, Tom Sowell, and the Steele twins broke the code. Now Diamond & Silk and West have broken it.

Trump’s message to the black community: the Democrats brought your sons Midnight Basketball but I brought your children jobs.


I think it goes back even further to the Washington/Du Bois debates of the early 20th century. But I would not add Diamond & Silk or Kanye West to the latter group. Diamond and Silk are a novelty, and West is erratic. I doubt either will have long-term impacts on the black community's voting patterns. Given the differences in means between blacks and whites, a meritocratic system will never be tolerated, because significant inequality between blacks and whites will remain. An identity politics system of handing out favors to preferred groups is operational in all advanced economies with large multiethnic populations. Sadly, the most likely future for the Republican Party will be the party of white identity politics.

Martin said...

Crosby fried his brain on drugs in the 1970s, and isn't an authority on anything

Achilles said...

J. Farmer said...

Given the differences in means between blacks and whites, a meritocratic system will never be tolerated, because significant inequality between blacks and whites will remain. An identity politics system of handing out favors to preferred groups is operational in all advanced economies with large multiethnic populations. Sadly, the most likely future for the Republican Party will be the party of white identity politics.

The left wants this to be a discussion about race.

The right wants it to be a discussion about culture.

In the end the only way we will succeed as a nation is to build an adherence to American culture. That means supporting strong families and good work ethic. Most important to this is building the concept of the citizen. The thing that made this country unique in history was it was founded on the virtue of the individual.

A citizen was someone who would generally do the right thing when nobody was looking.

The only way you can have a successful society without police making people do the right thing is if people do the right thing without police around.

Jupiter said...

Blogger wwww said...

"Negative emotions are not necessary over the long term, and don't do much good."

I appreciate your considered response to my question. I will point out that evolution very clearly does not agree with the quoted assessment. If you intend it as a moral opinion, then I don't guess that matters much. But if you intend it as a statement of fact, then you might consider that evolution has seen a lot more of the evidence than you have.

J. Farmer said...

@Achilles:

In the end the only way we will succeed as a nation is to build an adherence to American culture.

The problem with a large multiethnic society is even agreeing on what "American culture" means. "American culture" is largely a synonym for Anglo-Protestant culture. I do not see large numbers of recently arrived Latin Catholics as having much affinity for Anglo-Protestant culture.

The thing that made this country unique in history was it was founded on the virtue of the individual.

It is also our achilles heel, no pun intended. How do you reconcile individual human rights with consensual government? In other words, how do you prevent what Jon Stuart Mill labeled "the tyranny of the majority."

brian said...

With the conscious, subconscious comment, I am reminded of Brian Wilson and Pet Sounds, in which Brian works through some of his own 'hang ups' with language that clearly came from his therapist.

Examples? I love that album but haven't listened to it in a while. Would love to dust it off and hear it from a different perspective.

Perhaps I should have said that the lyrics were filtered through conversations with his therapist (and apparently LSD). This is all conjecture on my part, as I don't know Brian (despite our shared name).
Nevertheless, examples:
But that's not me- I wanted through all kinds of changes, took a look at myself and said . . . (and several other lines)
I know there's an answer/Hang onto your ego- isolate their heads and stay in their safety zone, what can you say that won't make them defensive
Here Today- if you're not careful think about the pain it could bring
You still believe - I know perfectly well I'm not where I should be
I Just Wasn't made for these - Each time things start to happen again Sometimes I feel very sad (repeated)

And for a different take and Brian and Kanye. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/05/how-pet-sounds-invented-the-modern-pop-album/482940/

Sprezzatura said...

“I mean, I made up the adjective "we-know-he's-a-genius" and I obviously approve of writing like that and expect readers to enjoy it (and therefore also approve of it as a way to write).“

Long ago, pre-meadehouse, Meade once commented disapproval re althouse doing something like this.

And yet, he was silent (in threads) re her cap-craze from a couple years ago. Picking his battles. I guess.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Big Mike said...
Trump’s message to the black community: the Democrats brought your sons Midnight Basketball but I brought your children jobs.


Relatively few jobs.

Achilles said...

J. Farmer said...

The problem with a large multiethnic society is even agreeing on what "American culture" means. "American culture" is largely a synonym for Anglo-Protestant culture. I do not see large numbers of recently arrived Latin Catholics as having much affinity for Anglo-Protestant culture.

In the end I think we could accept the inclusion of the modern extended family into our culture.

The primary issue with Catholicism is that it accepts people knowingly doing the wrong thing and thinking it will be OK to repent at confession. This is a perversion of Christ's message and forces society to become a police state.

It is also our achilles heel, no pun intended. How do you reconcile individual human rights with consensual government? In other words, how do you prevent what Jon Stuart Mill labeled "the tyranny of the majority."

A constitutionally limited republic. I am not being petty just pointing out we started in the right place and things have been poisoned by the same old things the left always uses to undermine society and take power.

We would have to get rid of the 17th amendment of course.

The 16th amendment needs to be repealed and replaced with something that forces the government to balance the budget and adhere to limits on spending that only apply to specific powers delegated by the constitution.

None of this will happen. We are on a one way track to civil war.

Lydia said...

Just West in his I-am-Jesus mode. But not even close to when he wore a crown of thorns.

Thought for the day: “God chose me. He made a path for me. I am God’s vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.” -- Kanye West, 2009

He also thinks he's "this generation's closest thing to Einstein".

J. Farmer said...

@Achilles:

A constitutionally limited republic. I am not being petty just pointing out we started in the right place and things have been poisoned by the same old things the left always uses to undermine society and take power.

Yeah, except the overwhelming majority of the people who believe "we started in the right place" are us crusty white guys. And the cultural power of this group is only going to be declining in the coming decades. Recall Bloom's Closing of the American Mind, the "first shot in the culture wars," as Paglia described it. The American culture you want to be the backbone of our society is the culture of straight, white men. And as you know, all the evils in the world (racism, sexism, colonialism, imperialism, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, ableist, etc.). are the fault of straight, white males. And once they're gone, it will be a social justice utopia. The only thing is, when I look around the world and see places full of brown faces, I don't necessarily find utopias or a lack of evil. In fact, it seems like the places these people most admire (e.g. Scandanvia) are shocking white.

I digress, but I hope you are beginning to see my point. The people who broadly share your notions of the American nation are declining and being replaced by people who large do not share that view. Hence, American culture is being dissolved and being replaced by something else. What that else will be, I don't know. But it won't be anything we liked for the first hundred years.

And even if by some miracle you were able to get a federal government more closely aligned with the original intent of the U.S. Constitution. Take a look at your state constitution and see how much "police power" your state has the right to exercise.

J. Farmer said...

@Lydia:

Just West in his I-am-Jesus mode. But not even close to when he wore a crown of thorns.

We have to let West off the cross on this one. He is a narcissist for sure, but for some reason the practice of identifying yourself with or as Jesus has been common in hip-hop since at least the early 1990s. Wu-trang Clan member Ol' Dirty Bastard used to call himself "Big Baby Jesus," Tupac Shakur released an album where he was depicted as crucified, and Was and Puff Daddy both appeared in a music video in the late 1990s where they were depicted as Jesus. Puff Daddy actually demanded that the scenes of him on the cross be removed, and when the video was released unedited, he assaulted Nas' manager in response. You know, just like Jesus would have done.

Birkel said...

ARM,
Dropping black unemployment from ~9% to ~7% is JUST CRUMBS isn't it?
I mean, what does it matter if 2% more blacks, who represent 13% of the US population of 330 million people have jobs? Only 50% of those blacks are working age.

That's just 430,000 more jobs.

Mere CRUMBS.

ARM, you suck. 430,000 people with jobs is a Big Fucking Deal.

Achilles said...

“I digress, but I hope you are beginning to see my point. “

I understand your point. The issue for you all is next steps.

1. We need to peel off people who are receptive to our culture. I fully believe a strong majority of Asians would join us as well as some Hispanics and a fair number of black people. We have to show we want the best for everyone.

2. In order to accomplish this we have to be the strong horse. That means we must defeat the leftists and stand for our principles. This means violent conflict.

Known Unknown said...

"Is this something to do with the difficulty of composing text on the dysfunctional little toy computers all the morons carry around with them now"

Aren't you precious.

khematite said...

Kanye:

Your conscience should allow a physical manifestation of your subconscious but right now most peoples conscious is too affected by other people’s thoughts and it creates a disconnect from you doing what you actually feel now


Dylan:

You know I’d have nightmares
And a guilty conscience, too
If I kept you from anything
That you really wanted to do

Be said...

"I ain't no perfect man: I try to do the best that I can with what it is I have ... "

- some other black guy.



Paddy O said...

the people who believe "we started in the right place" are us crusty white guys.

I'm not sure this is altogether true until relatively recently. MLK jr. used early American rhetoric a lot, basically calling America out and back to its core self-identity, arguing it started right then got shifted. But the key was calling people back, not away from, American identity.

Much more crass, but still illustrative, is Rocky IV's Apollo Creed scene with James Brown. There's also a lot of America celebration in Coming to America.

Again, it's not idealistic to say that those who believe in the American vision were from all races and backgrounds, and that the frustration came not in what America was but in how America was betraying itself so obviously.

We get a shift in Dubois, but that's not a majority thread even up into and beyond the Black Power era. There's been a shift in the last couple of decades that's profound, but not absolute. It's just academia and the media are wholesale in the America sucks camp.

Not saying there's not genuine reasons for frustration. After a while of appealing to ideals, it becomes exhausting not to see them take shape as quickly as possible.

Now Native Americans, of course, have a different perspective altogether.

traditionalguy said...

Anybody care what spirit "Dragon Energy" might be? It definitely demands freedom to express itself. Might it be Hermes in action.

J. Farmer said...

@Paddy O:

I'm not sure this is altogether true until relatively recently. MLK jr. used early American rhetoric a lot, basically calling America out and back to its core self-identity, arguing it started right then got shifted. But the key was calling people back, not away from, American identity.

MLK was making a philosophical point about human rights and equality. He was not calling for a return to constitutional principles or a reduction in the overall size of the state.

Michael McNeil said...

Now Native Americans, of course, have a different perspective altogether.

The perspective of “Native Americans,” indeed, is that they generally prefer the term American Indian.

Paddy O said...


MLK was making a philosophical point about human rights and equality. He was not calling for a return to constitutional principles or a reduction in the overall size of the state.

I'm pretty sure he was calling for Constitutional rights applied to all people equally, expressed in the laws of the land, and in the reduction of the state apparatus of institutional racism.

In other words, your'e separating elements of American identity that aren't able to be separated. His call to the human rights was precisely a statement about government as it was being enacted in the South (and elsewhere).

Paddy O said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paddy O said...

"The perspective of “Native Americans,” indeed, is that they generally prefer the term American Indian."

Given I live where there's a huge population of Indians from India, including a large number of multi-generational American born but with Indian from India heritage, I prefer the term Native American as it saves having to always clarify.

Craig said...

This is very belated, but "conscious" is indeed listed as a noun by the OED:

" B. n.
Thesaurus »
Categories »

Philos. and Psychol. With the. The conscious mind.

1852 Soul's Welfare 3 20 Never till, by the long continued repetition of crimes, the conscious is rendered callous, will it, if aware of the demerit of sin, be exempted from gloomy recollections and dismal anticipations.
1919 M. K. Bradby Psycho-anal. iii. 34 They figure in her dreams in forms which imply moral condemnation in the unconscious as well as in the conscious, as demons or brutal people.
2000 C. M. Robeck in A. Hastings et al. Oxf. Compan. Christian Thought 531/2 The rediscovery of the human psyche by Pentecostals comes in a most pronounced fashion within speaking in tongues. The conscious and the subconscious seem to be fully integrated under the hand of the Holy Spirit."

Given that "conscious" is treated as a noun by both M-W and OED, I'm pretty sure that it is "officially" (for whatever that's worth) can be used as a noun.