February 12, 2018

"People still love sex, sizzle and controversy — but the entertainment industry is too afraid to serve it up right now."

"It’s hard to believe, but 60 years ago entertainers had more guts. If you want proof, tune into 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel' on Amazon, an excellent new show about a fictional woman named Midge — clearly based on Joan Rivers — who starts a risky career as a stand-up comedienne in Greenwich Village in 1958. On stage, Midge makes jokes about her sex life, her Jewish upbringing and even rips off her top, exposing her breasts. As the crowd laps up the routine, the police arrest Midge for breaking obscenity laws. That kind of courage, that willingness to shock and offend, is what made Rivers so exciting to watch. It’s what makes great comedy. But today’s comics are afraid to go too far, out of fear of the woke police....  Here’s another: How is show business going to survive if it suddenly censors itself?"

From "The woke police have ruined entertainment" by Johnny Oleksinski in The New York Post.

Random reactions:

1. I don't remember Joan Rivers ever whipping off her shirt and exposing her breasts, nor can I even imagine such a move, given that there would have to be a layer of undergarment, not susceptible to whipping off, and I've seen "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel," which is, indeed, an excellent show.

2. Some people were modestly entertained over the weekend when a South Korean ice skater's costume got unclasped and threatened to fall off. "I was like, ‘Oh no!’ If that comes undone, the whole thing could just pop off. I was terrified the entire program.... I didn’t stop because you get a deduction if you stop in the middle of a program. In my head, I was thinking, 'Is it better to stop and fix it and get the deduction or keep going?'" She kept going and we kept thinking: Is that thing going to fall off? And some of us, I'm sure, will continue to watch ice skating, now thinking, will the lady's costume — the whole thing — just pop off?

3. I don't think you need to be obscene to entertain. In fact, it was much easier to be shocking with sexual things in the old days, when you could get arrested for obscenity. But half a century later, sexual frankness isn't shocking, and the "woke police" are out to ruin you not because of sex, but because they're vigilant about the subordination of women. It's not easy to figure out how to avoid committing the kind of offenses that will get the "woke police" after you, but you men who complain about it are like the Ken counterpart to the talking Barbie who said "math class is tough"Women's Studies class is tough.

4. Hollywood entertain — and the culture of Hollywood celebrities — has been awful for a lot of reasons for a long, long time. Can't you please just continue to entertain us? is a pathetic whine.



Are you not entertained? You shouldn't be! Man, "Gladiator" is putrid. I knew it at the time and stayed away, but can anyone justify the adulation that movie received? The answer to Russell Crowe's famous question is: no!

5. Meanwhile, speaking of bared breasts and slabs of man meat, over at the New York Times, Ross Douthat says "Let’s Ban Porn."
[W]e are supposed to be in the midst of a great sexual reassessment, a clearing-out of assumptions that serve misogyny and impose bad sex on semi-willing women.... It was only a generation ago that the unlikely (or was it?) alliance of feminists and religious conservatives made the regulation of pornography a live political debate. But between the individualistic drift of society, the invention of the internet, and the failure of the Dworkin-Falwell alliance’s predictions that porn would lead to rising rates of rape, the anti-porn case was marginalized — with religious conservatism’s surrender to Donald Trump’s playboy candidacy a seeming coup de grace.

Except it doesn’t have to be. Trump’s grotesqueries have stirred up a feminist reaction that’s more moralistic and less gamely sex-positive than the Clinton-justifying variety, and there’s no necessary reason why its moralistic gaze can’t extend to our porn addiction....

In many of them, you see a kind of female revulsion, not against Harvey Weinstein-style apex predators, but against the very different sort of male personality that a pornographic education seems to produce: a breed at once entitled and resentful, angry and undermotivated, “woke” and caddish, shaped by unprecedented possibilities for sexual gratification and frustrated that real women are less available and more complicated than the version on their screen....
Just when the prestige movies of Hollywood retreat from whatever entertainment they might have been providing, the social cons want to team up with the progressives — one more time, like it's the 80s — and scare you with proposals about banning pornography.

6. You don't have to actually ban pornography. Just have angry, righteous women go public about the  pornography habits various famous men and demand that they be fired from their jobs. I'm sure there are some members of Congress who can be Al-Frankened over porn. I'm sure a porn hysteria could be set in motion around various Trump men to generate an endless chain of headlines in the NYT like "Porn Claims Against Aide Further Roil White House." Could the White House be even more roiled that it already is? Yes!

292 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 292 of 292
Fernandistein said...

He had to take big risks -- feats of strength -- because he's a 5'5", 117 pound, gnomish-looking guy.

Meade?

Robert said...
The first ten minutes of Gladiator in which a legion takes on a band of Germans are superb


That big hairy guy waving around the bloody head was unnecessarily macho; musta was a Mexican.

Michael K pontificated...
The Manchester aArt Gallery is now "Woke."


You're a day late and a dollar short, as usual.

Lewis Wetzel said...
"Michael Kimmel...19th century in America, when masculinity began to be defined through proving oneself as a man."
This is Bunkum.


Obviously. Here's why:
He was recently called “the world’s most prominent male feminist” in The Guardian newspaper in London.

Ann Althouse said...
Are you lunkheads all just going to say "Gladiator is great"?


It sounds like you're laboring under the impression that you're still a professor who can brow-beat some hapless students.

"Man, "Gladiator" is putrid." Oh, so much better!

Isn't that proving my point?!

I can't see your point - did you comb your hair so as to hide it?

rhhardin said...

Nietzsche delivered the line first.

Trashhauler said...

Of course, pornography causes harm...

Haven't we been throwing men into prison for owning the wrong kind of pornography?

The spread of "sissy" porn, where men are treated (badly) as women just might be an indicator of something. Nobody would treat women in the demeaning, cruel way they apparently wish to treat male to female transsexuals.

Ann Althouse said...

"Somebody already did. Have you seen Blades of Glory? It's hilarious."

Thanks for the reminder. I'd forgotten about that. Haven't seen it, but I think I've tried unsuccessfully.

Annie C said...

And so I had to google "King Kong's nostrils."

Um, don't.

Paul Snively said...

MikeR: The whole _point_ of the internet was that it made it easy to get porn.

Srsly?

Judith said...

As a female - we're all identitarians now - I say the worst way to learn about women is in a Women's Studies class. It will have a bunch of things to say that please women but there is no necessary relationship between that and the truth. A "discipline" that starts with a bias is no discipline at all.

buwaya said...

Gladiator is really a remake, a considerable improvement in fact, of a failed 1960s epic "The Fall of the Roman Empire".
Its worth a watch.

The plot is similar, the slice of history is the same, etc.

The only thing the old one had over Gladiator was Sofia Loren.

rhhardin said...

Supposing truth to be a woman - what? is the suspicion not well-founded that all philosophers, when they have been dogmatists, have had little understanding of women, that the gruesome earnestness, the clumsy importunity with which they have been in the habit of approaching truth have been inept and improper means for winning a woman?

Certainly she has not let herself be won -- and today every kind of dogmatism stands sad and discouraged, if it continues to stand at all.

Assrat said...

>You can't possibly see every movie.

True enough. However, there's a big difference between "I don't want to see Gladiator because..." and "Gladiator is a putrid movie."

Everyone has the right to say the first. The right to say the second needs to be earned by watching it.

rhhardin said...

I have an enormous pile of unwatched DVDs, stuff that came in that I decided, from the blurb on the back, well maybe later sometime.

Birkel said...

Kitty McKinnon's class was easy, as I understand it, if you regurgitated the pre-chewed bites the momma bird brought back to the nest. Nothing of substance, mind you, as it was already chewed and partially digested mush. Nobody suffered under the delusion that either learning or thinking was useful. You just swallowed and spat it back.

But sure, most Women's Studies classes are probably great just like the hostess pretends.

rhhardin said...

The postmodern approach is to take "truth is a woman" seriously; and, if you want to do it right, like women.

buwaya said...

As for how people behave in "epic" situations - in great danger, great stress, or taking momentous decisions -
not like they do in conventional theatrical drama.
Quite prosaically, or in dramatic terms very underplayed.
People IRL are very bad actors.

Roughcoat said...

Ben Hur (the William Wyler version) is a great movie, profoundly spiritual. The movie and the novel are subtitled "A Tale of the Christ" and I found it (still find it) to be just that. A wondrous story of sin and redemption through faith and the salvific sacrifice of Christ. There are several scenes in the movie that still, to this day, after countless viewings, give me chills. E.g., the scene where Christ succors the enslaved Ben Hur with water and the brutal Roman soldier locks eyes with Christ and senses His divinity and finds himself unable to chastise Him -- in that moment the Roman soldier is redeemed and his life will never be the same. Or the final scene with Christ's blood running down the rocky Golgotha hillside in the cleansing rain, with Miklos Rosza's magnificent soundtrack literally setting the tone of salvation. And Messula's story is compelling as a tragedy -- this is a much his story as it is Ben Hur's, as it is a tale of the Christ. Also magnificent: the chariot race. And I'll say it again, Mikloz Rosza's soundtrack.

Quaestor said...

Women's Studies class is tough.

Ken never said that because even a piece of plastic knows it's bullshit. Women's Studies is now what it has always been — a sop to women who feel shorted by nature and history, and a crip course for guys looking to boost their GPAs with minimal effort. Wanna ace it? Here's how...
(1) Take detailed notes so you can parrot the instructor's biases back at her in your essay question answers.
(2) During each lecture nod your head in agreement at every opportunity, especially when she's looking at you.
(3) Ruthlessly suppress the urge to bust out laughing.

buwaya said...

I take "womens studies" to mean the actual IRL study of women, not the academic specialty.

This is something most men undertake, to some degree and to greater or lesser success, and because of the nature of the field of study, usually quite haphazardly and with poor sampling.

Some go about it in quite a structured, empirical research project sort of way. This is of course quite creepy.

Quaestor said...

Quaestor predicts the woke police will be much like the Chicago police during the heyday of Al Capone — easily corrupted.

Birkel said...

The study of Uber drivers is quite revealing.
As it happens women make less because of the choices they make about their Uber driving habits, on average.

Two solutions: force women to follow the same pattern as men -or- force Uber to pay women more for unequal inputs.

Never considered: Eh? Shit happens.

Gahrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

"What is the truth about women can't be discovered. Truth is a woman."

Wait..I thought there was no objective truth?

rhhardin said...

The upside of men studying women is that men can stay interested long enough to come up with something that isn't boring or mundane.

buwaya said...

As for Hollywood (the Anglosphere film industry in general) - the next big American industry to be outsourced. The international market is much more important and will continue to expand.

Movies and all related investments will be made to suit them.

"Small" movies will continue to partially serve the US market as a niche. Expect demands for protection from foreign imports or subsidies to preserve the remnants, as with European, Canadian, Australian industries.

JPG said...

This is one of the strangest Ann Althouse segments I have read here. JPG

rhhardin said...

Wait..I thought there was no objective truth?

Truth is a woman is a way of saying that. Stuff depends. The observer is, unnoticed, part of the picture observed.

mockturtle said...

As a female - we're all identitarians now - I say the worst way to learn about women is in a Women's Studies class. It will have a bunch of things to say that please women but there is no necessary relationship between that and the truth. A "discipline" that starts with a bias is no discipline at all.

Thank you, Judith.

Gahrie said...

And notice that the boy who is best at it is precisely the boy who would be least successful getting a girlfriend by just going up to her and engaging her in conversation.

Wait...are you saying that women objectify and discriminate against men based on their physical appearance?

Well...I'm sure there is a good reason for it that justifies it.

rhhardin said...

A women's studies class should start with Thurber's "Is Sex Necessary?"

They will find that they're in the book.

Gahrie said...

Sluts are us, since the sixties.

Hillary just changed that to "Up with bitches!".

chickelit said...

The woke police
They live inside of my head
The woke police
They come to me in my bed
The woke police
They're coming to arrest me
Oh no

Gahrie said...

Are you lunkheads

Well I suppose it is a step up from splooge stooges.

chickelit said...

Yeah, that's my point... now...

Well, Audie Murphy cut a diminutive figure as well. But, he found ways to compensate.

Women -- those who didn't hit the genetic jackpot -- find ways to compensate as well.

Gahrie said...

The study of women is obviously important.

How about the study of men? Would you support a Men's studies class?

William said...

I'm somewhat more familiar with porn than with snowboarding. I do, however, think that both activities have this in common: they wish to stretch the boundaries of the human body and explore new territorories. The problem with this is that they are engaging in activities that no sane human wishes to engage in. Those boundaries exist for a reason. Does anyone want to duplicate those snowboarding feats in their private life? Does anyone want to celebrate their anniversary by engaging in bukkake?..........Snowboarding is a decadent form of skiing. A lot of the activities you see in today's porn are a decadent form of decadence. Decadence ain't what it used to be.

Gahrie said...

Men's studies, often called men and masculinities in academic settings, is an interdisciplinary academic field devoted to topics concerning men, masculinity, feminism, gender, and politics. It draws upon feminist theory in order to analyze different ideologies having to do with masculinity

So Men's studies is really a bitch session on the problems with men by angry feminists.

rhhardin said...

For some reason the (new) male newscaster reported that the space station will fly over from 6:40 to 6:45 this evening.

It's actual news, after all. It also happens every day but not at those exact times.

rhhardin said...

It's all Japanese. Bukkake and Sushi.

mockturtle said...

Women have had equal educational opportunities for decades now and nothing stops a woman from excelling in math and science but her own aptitude and desire. Women need to quit making excuses. This constant whining makes us all look bad.

Bob Boyd said...

Gladiator was great movie.
After all this discussion, I suspect you may be finding yourself just a little bit Gladiator curious, even if you won't say so out loud.
Did you realize all the fights in Gladiator are same sex match-ups? Well they are.

And we like to think of ourselves as lovable lunkheads.

Gahrie said...

Third, I question whether viewing porn is really an alternative to having sex with somebody other than your spouse. What you seek in another person is emotional:

Once again Althouse attempts to womansplain male sexuality only to prove she really doesn't understand it.

hombre said...

Althouse: "The study of women is obviously important. The subject is central to human life in the present and throughout history (and it has a big, mystifying biological dimension)"

I don't quite know what to make of this. Is the Professor baiting us? Is she reverting to her academic persona? "The subject is central to human life ...."? The same can be said about the study of the alimentary canal - speaking of "big, mystifying biological dimension(s)" - and it would be more useful. Let's hear it for AC Studies and the AC Studies Department.

And can you imagine "Men's Studies" at the University of Wisconsin, Madison? Undoubtedly presented by the Department of Gender and Women's Studies. Check your huevos at the door, boys.

And: "Transport us into a utopia where there's no subordination of women...." Transportation will not include the audience of "Fifty Shades of Grey", 70+% of whom are women who have another definition of utopia.

bagoh20 said...

"What you seek in another person is emotional: it could be admiration and love or a feeling of conquest or domination, but it's something emotional that has to do with a living, real human being. You never get that from looking at videos!"

Bless your heart. Unlike women, I think most men's sexuality is highly compartmentalized from their emotional connections. Men do want an emotional connection, but it has nothing to do with why they watch porn, or even why they have sex. Porn is not a substitute for that connection and neither is sex really part of it for us. Porn is completely different - pure visual stimulation, which we also need when having sex, even with the woman we love. If we don't get it, we imagine it.

It's like how women might swoon over a movie star they have no relationship with. They don't want to replace their own man, but it feels good to swoon. It just scratches an itch, and some people are more itchy than others. I'm thankful, that age has mostly numbed that itch for me. An itch is a tough thing to ignore. It's possible but difficult.

chickelit said...

Once again Althouse attempts to womansplain male sexuality only to prove she really doesn't understand it.

I think it's called "annsplaining"

Gahrie said...

Why are we talking about Women's Studies classes while 20% of the women who attend college are raped?

Isn't that like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic?

bagoh20 said...

What makes women's studies hard is the women part. Men should teach it. Then 2 + 2 would equal 4 every day of the week. I'm talking out my ass, but I bet success in a women's studies class is highly correlated with submission to the political more than the factual. I bet that even good arguments against the professor's political stance are eventually countered with being called a misogynist or lacky to the patriarchy.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

My wife was curious about why almost every lady snowboarder had two symmetric strands of hair visible and hanging out. Is it a some woke symbol?

LOL, my wife asked the exact same question.

bagoh20 said...

I'm not arguing there should not be women's studies, just that what they are now is not that.

MayBee said...

We have same sex pairs diving in the summer Olympics, and it is quite engaging. Rhythmic gymnastics also has duos.

mockturtle said...

Women have been devalued by making babies disposable.

Daniel Jackson said...

I'm not really sure what the fuss is about. A lot of math is useless mental masturbation (I suppose that could be a link to the pornography question) as are many women's studies programs, basically an interdisciplinary study) woefully limited in scope (I notice that University of Wisconsin, the Gender and Women's Program is thoroughly grounded in biology and women's health issues like childbirth). So what. Big deal. There are good professors (a term from the Church for those who give over the Faith) and abysmally shitty ones. Just because a prof is THE person in the field has nothing to do with performance in the classroom.

When such interdisciplinary programs began, there were horrid gaps in curriculum and research focus. This was true for the South Asia Regional Studies Program in which I began my graduate school career at the Jackson School of International Studies at the other UW, the University of Washington. Purist Professors, even in the program, argued that there were intellectual, as well as disciplinary, limitations on interdisciplinary programs because one did not have to specialize; therefore, never really delving into the "meat" of the subject.

It is true that much of what is taught in a Women's Studies program can be covered in sociology, anthropology, psychology, and certainly in public health or a doctoral program in Nursing. In the modern university, one can pretty much write their own doctoral study program (after dealing with departmental requirements).

But like all departments and all disciplines, there are oddities who gravitate to programs like Math, Gender Studies, and even Snow Boarding. There are many professors/instructors who use the lectern as a bully pulpit (as in environmental studies) and the lecture as a way to bullshit through the hour/hour-and-a-half to cover blowing off preparation. I would imagine that taking a class and hearing the instructor rant and rave against you because of your gender would be seriously off putting. I've had this experience in Yeshiva courses where I was not frum enough as I have endured (to some extent) hearing people rail against slimy Jews. It's understandable that Ken might need a safe space relative to his Gender Studies distribution requirement.

Similarly, every time you ask yourself how fast you need to drive to get to the movie theater in the next county on time OR you only have two eggs for a recipe that calls for three and you need to reduce proportionately all the other ingredients (I have this problem ALL the time), you are going to need a bit of math to solve for those unknown quantities.

Gladiator is a direct steal from the Samuel Bronston production of The Fall of the Roman Empire (1964) starring Sophia Loren, Christopher Plummer (the Bad Guy), and Steven Boyd (the Good Guy). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058085/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_36

The main difference between them is that Steve lives, refuses to take over the Empire, and exits with Sophia (who can blame him). For the original, copies of each period set were constructed full size in various locations in Spain as opposed to generated by computer graphics. When I was fifteen, it was great to see Steve redeem himself for squaring off against Moshe Rebbeinu in Ben Hur by skewering Von Trap and getting to go off with Hubba Hubba THE BABE!

The hyper realism of Gladiator and the death of the hero was a bit too much.


Saint Croix said...

that is far and away the best ice skating routine I have ever seen in my life

absolutely perfect

10

MountainMan said...

While eating lunch I see on my iPad the Xfinity streaming app has Gladiator available from Starz. Think I will take a couple of hours and give it another look. Wife at work, cold and raining outside with lots of flooding, all my favorite trails are washed out or under water, so I won't be going anywhere. Nice way to spend an afternoon.

Sigivald said...

It's not easy to figure out how to avoid committing the kind of offenses that will get the "woke police" after you, but you men who complain about it are like the Ken counterpart to the talking Barbie who said "math class is tough" — Women's Studies class is tough.

Yeah, no.

Math is consistent and logical and the rules don't change at someone else's political whim.

"Women's studies class" sure is tough, because what was Undeniably True Forever the last time you studied is pretty likely to be Unthinkably Retrograde And Insulting in a week.

(c.f. all the Revolution Eating Itself between the "waves" of feminists.

As someone who is on-team for the feminism that is "political and social equality between the sexes", I won't celebrate that entirely, but I do like the scolds and power-mongers getting a comeuppance.)

Michael K said...

" The international market is much more important and will continue to expand.

Movies and all related investments will be made to suit them."

They are now. That is probably why so many movies these days are cartoons. Easier to dub in other languages.

Another big plus for "Gladiator, ignoring the "Womens Studies" chorus, is that it was Oliver Reed's last movie. He died while shooting on Malta. A pub in Valletta, which I visited, now has changed it's name to "Oliver's Last Pub." He died while arm wrestling a British sailor, a common entertainment of his.
His final scenes in the movie were shot with standins.

I have the DVD and watch it once in a while. His "Robin Hood" is also good although Ridley Scott has never made the second half.

bagoh20 said...

I enjoyed "Gladiator", espcially the beginning. Much of history is putrid. That may be the most accurate aspect of the movie.

Michael K said...

"His" being Russell Crowe.

n.n said...

Women have been devalued by making babies disposable.

Humanity has been debased by making babies disposable. Women have been denied agency by placing conception before choice.

rhhardin said...

Math is consistent and logical

It's either inconsistent or incomplete.

Unknown said...

I don't know if I've ever put up with a "sword and sandals" movie other than — when I was a child — watching "Demetrius and the Gladiators" on black-and-white television.

I highly recommend to you "Xena: Warrior Princess". Especially the incredible third and fourth seasons. Two leads who could actually act, and a run of great scripts(*) that could get you crying over a line like "Scratch my nose".

(*) Yes, and some bad ones.

Darrell said...

I can only look at naked women for about 12 hours before I have to take a break. Not enough time to see every woman in the world.

The Euros have mandated that all the major porn videos sites will have to register and confirm the identities of users, who will have to log for every visit. It starts in March or April of this year. I don't know if the rules will affect Americans or if they check for Europeans using proxy servers located in other countries. No possibility of mischief with keeping track of peoples' viewing choices, is there?

Quaestor said...

I enjoyed "Gladiator", espcially [sic] the beginning.

The beginning left me disinclined to suspend disbelief for the remainder of the film. When the Germans chant that marching cadence lifted bodily from the classic war film Zulu (an authentic chant performed by authentic Zulus) I wanted to walk out. I stayed nevertheless but was not paid my due.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Welp, I took a Womens Studies course at a community college and it consisted of thirty mouthy working class women continually yelling nonsensically at a hapless 19 year old male sailor taking the class in his spare time, who was brave enough to enroll and dumb enough to think that he could raise genuine questions and participate in the class in an intellectually honest way. Plus the professor who rarely intervened to shut up the harpies.

So that's my story of Womens Studies.

eddie willers said...

Remember when she used to make fun of how fat Elizabeth Taylor was?

"When she had her ears pierced, gravy ran out".

bagoh20 said...

Questor, we have no idea how the Germans chanted, and something similar to Zulus is as likely or more likely than anything the filmmakers could just make up. I enjoyed the cinematography, the look, along with tension and preparations for battle in the beginning. The clashing of the organized Roman forces against the completely different peoples they fought in Europe must have been incredible to see, and this is as close as I can get to seeing such a thing. Yes, I was entertained.

Leland said...

I agree you can't see every movie not should you see a movie based on arguments that you can't judge it without seeing it all. It's all a gimmick designed to take moneyg from the gullible. I just think the same could be said about certain college courses.

As a Dad to two daughters, I've seen nothing of women studies that can teach a man better than just having a daughter. But I doubt I would get academic credit.

Back to Gladiator, it's an entertaining movie, but like many of that era, it was a message movie. The clip you showed is likely causing many to think the same while watching the NFL. But as much as I liked the movie overall, the incest scenes are pretty bad too.

Another good movie I can no longer watch is Braveheart. The scene when Longshanks slits the throat of Wallace's wife is just too well done, and makes me sick. That level of gratuitous violence is as much a problem as too many boob shots.

mtrobertslaw said...

An authentic Women's Studies course would seriously discuss whether women's roles throughout history are more a function of nature rather than social conditioning. The required readings would equally balance each side of this question. I'll wager there never has been such a course and there never will be.

Roughcoat said...

Quaestor and bagoh20:

We do know what Germanic warriors chanted and their chant was faithfully re-created in Gladiator.

At the Battle of Hastings when the Saxons formed their shield wall on Senlac Ridge, and as the Norman cavalry was assembling for their first foray at Harold's host, the Saxons ritually beat on their shields and shouted, rhythmically, "Oot! Oot! Oot!"

I'm spelling this phonetically.

It translates, literally, as "Out! Out! Out!" and idiomatically as "Come on, you sorry fuckers, come get some."

They were taunting the Normans, as in "come out of the safety of your camp and fight us."

In Gladiator, the Germans are chanting "Oot! Oot! Oot." In other words: "Come out, hyou sorry fucking Romans, and get what's coming to you."

Roughcoat said...

Also, the "Oot" (or "Uut") chant in Gladiator sounded nothing like the Zulu chant in the movie of the same name. The Zulu chant was multi-tonal and melodic, variable in pitch, with harmonizing of high and low voices. Although I agree with Private Owen's assessment: "They've got a very good bass section, mind, but no top tenors, that's for sure."

Luke Lea said...

rhhardin: " Derrida analyzes systems he likes. Therefrom thousands of insights."

Any that you are not passing along?

Gahrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeff said...

Unlike women, I think most men's sexuality is highly compartmentalized from their emotional connections. Men do want an emotional connection, but it has nothing to do with why they watch porn, or even why they have sex. Porn is not a substitute for that connection and neither is sex really part of it for us.

I wouldn't go that far. The emotional connection is why sex with someone you love (not in the Woody Allen sense, i.e., masturbation) is better than sex with someone you don't know very well. Sex is how men experience intimacy, more so than it is for women. When a man feels very close to a woman, he's most likely horny as well.

Rick said...

As a Dad to two daughters, I've seen nothing of women studies that can teach a man better than just having a daughter.

I've never been quite sure why this is important. Did you come from some some strange place where you had no female friends?

Michael McNeil said...

I didn’t think Gladiator was good at all. It was totally spoiled for me by its absurd premise that a Roman general could be kidnapped off the streets and (rather than being kept imprisoned incommunicado — that’s certainly possible) shoved out into the world where — performing as a slave gladiator — he would come into contact with the public. Somehow though despite this public contact he would nonetheless be unable (he couldn’t even try apparently) to establish his identity with people he came into contact with, and thereby have his kidnapper-“owners” arrested and crucified.

It seems quite probable to me that in such circumstances, out on the floor of the colliseum, he could simply have addressed any magistrate present in the stands above (who likely would have known him), bellowing out his name and, say, some crucial information only he and some (important) others could know — instigating someone (perhaps the praetorian prefect of the city) to launch an investigation, deadly to his captors.

Luke Lea said...

Ann writes in response to:

'It would be fun to see a dialog between her and Jordan Peterson Bloggingheads.tv style on the topic....'

"I can't picture that. Not sure what I'd want to fight with him about, but I'm sure my style would pair badly with his."

Why do you (Ann) assume it would be a fight? Couldn't you two agree on certain aspects of the question of whether stand alone Women's Studies courses are a good thing as part of the standard academic curriculum?

I want to hear more of Ann's view on the subject, and not as a matter of idle curiosity. Does she like the way these courses are being taught today, or does she have an ideal in mind? Or is it simply a matter of women are important and so of course they should be studied? If the latter, then why are these courses today taught mostly by and for women? After all, men think women are important too, and men might bring their own points of view. Like rhhardin for example. It's hard to imagine him being welcomed into a Women's Study course today, but I bet Ann would welcome him. And why couldn't and shouldn't these things be covered by courses the regular history department?

Forgive the typos. I'm not going to rewrite.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Can someone tell me what was the point of this post?

brylun said...

Math is extremely valuable in delivering all of the comforts of modern society. Without math we would literally be back in the Stone Age. Think about it for a minute, especially about all the conveniences we take for granted.

As for Women’s Studies, I have observed that importance in the world used to depend on physical strength. The industrial revolution began to change that. As well as strong enforcement of the rule of law. The Information Age works both ways, it continues to devalue physical strength, but increases the value of math.

Women’s bell curve favors communication; men’s bell curve favors math and special concepts.

How’s them facts?

brylun said...

Spacial concepts.

Gahrie said...

Can someone tell me what was the point of this post?

It's Althouse's way of saying: "Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

Anonymous said...

Why do women need, want, or deserve to be protected from "subordination"?

Subordination is a fact of life: all of us are more powerful than some others, and less powerful than some others.

If women are not equal and powerful enough to handle their own subordination problems, who else is going to? Who else is obliged to? The men? You can't demand to be seen as equal AND demand that the men protect and nurture you. You have to pick one or the other. If you need men to take womens studies classes in order so that men may learn to adjust their behavior to accommodate for females' problems, then isn't that an admission that women are inherently inferior to men?

Equality is an either you are or you're not. If you aren't willing to live it, you're not entitled to it.

This btw is why I despise feminism. If I need to rely on a man (singular) or men (collectively) to be my/our partner and offer me/us protection, I'd rather negotiate the terms honestly, and in a spirit of goodwill.

Gahrie said...

An authentic Women's Studies course would seriously discuss whether women's roles throughout history are more a function of nature rather than social conditioning. The required readings would equally balance each side of this question. I'll wager there never has been such a course and there never will be.

Of course not! The second most important reason for the existence of these programs is to deny the common sense evidence that gender has anything to do with nature, and to teach that all women are enslaved by the social conditioning imposed by the Patriarchy.

(The MOST important reason is to recruit and brainwash new foot soldiers)

reposted with a correction

buwaya said...

"It was totally spoiled for me by its absurd premise"

Part of the premise was that the protagonist chose to remain incognito, else he would indeed have been eliminated quickly. And shouting out accusations against an emperor would have been useless, given an utterly corrupted state. Then there is the sub-plot of an anti-imperial plot, etc.

It worked fairly well I think. Crazier things happened in Roman history.

Larry Davison said...

"Film is subjective." - John Campea

No one should get uptight over a disagreement of liking/disliking a movie. People's tastes differ, their backgrounds differ, thus their experience of a movie differs.

The challenge for anyone trying to make money entertaining other people, is figuring what will appeal to enough people so that a profit can be made. Disrespecting a large part of your prospective audience is ... imprudent. Disrespecting the audience you already have is unwise. Bird in the hand, and all that. Anyone remember the Dixie Chicks?

Francisco D said...

"Can someone tell me what was the point of this post?"

Sleep it off Ritmo. You will have much greater opportunities to hijack other threads.

This one takes a little bit of thinking an a willingness to suspend disbelief. (I could not let that go).

Michael K said...

""It was totally spoiled for me by its absurd premise"

It might help to study the history of Commodus.

Commodus also had a passion for gladiatorial combat, which he took so far as to take to the arena himself, dressed as a secutor.[23] The Romans found Commodus' naked gladiatorial combats to be scandalous and disgraceful.[24] It was rumoured that he was actually the son, not of Marcus Aurelius, but of a gladiator whom his mother Faustina had taken as a lover at the coastal resort of Caieta.[25]

In the arena, Commodus always won since his opponents always submitted to the emperor.


The turmoil suggests that a Maximus who attempted to assert his status as general would have quickly been dispatched.

Jose_K said...

Europe and Latin America will be happy to supply a replacement

John Lynch said...

Hey, I got a response. Cool. Thanks.

Kirk Parker said...

MountainMan,

"Probably the most accurate portrayal on screen ever of early 19th century naval battles"

I absolutely loved the gunnery-practice scene, and it too was quite accurate--the British naval superiority was due in large part to their faster operation (being able to cycle their guns faster than the French, or anyone else.)

Daniel Jackson said...

"Anyone remember the Dixie Chicks?"

Voila: here they are with all their top causes http://www.dixiechicks.com/causes/

Paco Wové said...

I think it's called "annsplaining"

Excellent – will steal for future use

Rusty said...

Blogger Rick said...
"As a Dad to two daughters, I've seen nothing of women studies that can teach a man better than just having a daughter.

I've never been quite sure why this is important. Did you come from some some strange place where you had no female friends? "

No raising em from pups is a different than raising males. A lot different.

Unknown said...

|φ> = α|0> + β|1> means something; hard or not.
intersectionalism is a bunch of garbage. Who cares if it's hard?

Bad Lieutenant said...


The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Can someone tell me what was the point of this post?

2/12/18, 4:53 PM


Dear Ritmo,

NO!

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