... come on in and warm up. Let's have a good conversation.
(And let's use the Althouse Portal to Amazon.)
February 25, 2018
At the Winter Road Café...
... come on in and warm up. Let's have a good conversation.
(And let's use the Althouse Portal to Amazon.)
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120 comments:
Wow! You have over 500 comments on the Trump comment that teachers-should-carry.
What's the record??
What is it about the fetishization of ar-15's that it's lunacy to go up against a kid armed with one. I've seen this in the MSM. I've seen it in the comments here, most recently from WWWW in the previous thread. This has got to be one of the lamest memes I've seen in the gun debate. But it's got traction, so I guess the point is to give the true believers anything they can glom onto no matter how thin.
News from Florida: Tiger Woods is 12th at Honda Classic in Palm Beach. In Coward County, the Sheriff comes in last place .
If ar-15's are so impossible to counter with a hand gun, what justification is there for leo's not to be armed with them?
@mad
People are emotional about guns.
The record must be more like 1,000... on some election thing, like maybe a live -blogged debate.
Ann Althouse: "@mad People are emotional about guns."
Uh, no.
We are emotional about the left being transparently in the business of methodically dismantling our rights.
Free speech, 2nd amendment rights, 4th amendment rights, in every single case the left is demonstrating conclusively that what they have in mind is something very different than the nation we had, and have today.
But if it makes someone feel better about their own positions to simply assign emotions to the gun issue, well, it's a free country.....(for now....)
@CWJ, good question. I had never seen it before.
@Drago;
Remember..Althouse thinks being emotional about something is a good thing........
"The Schiff Memo Harms Democrats More Than It Helps Them"
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/schiff-memo-russia-investigation-harms-democrats-more-than-helps-them/
And LLR Chuck curls up in a ball and weeps.
I'd be interested in seeing the contract for the school principal. Is part of his remuneration dependent upon reducing violence (in practice the reports of violence) at school? What were his incentives leading to his failures.
Back when I was first learning to drive, the center of the road was marked with white dashes.
In 1935 lines could be white, yellow, or black. During the war, black lines were popular for blackout areas, and yellow was reserved for barrier and curb markings.
During the war, chromium was needed for the war effort, and alternatives to yellow were acceptable, but in no case could these be white. White was typically used for the center markings. In 1948 black was no longer used.
In 1961 the guidance for yellow was:
1. Double center lines on multilane pavements.
2. No-passing barrier lines at:
a. No-passing zones on two- and three-lane roads.
b. Pavement-width transitions.
c. Approaches to obstructions which must be passed on the right.
d. Approaches to railroad crossings.
3. Curb markings:
a. To show parking prohibitions covered by signs or ordinance.
b. On islands in the line of traffic.
White markings:
1. Center lines on two-lane rural roads and city streets.
2. Lane lines.
3. Pavement edge lines.
4. Paved-shoulder markings.
5. Channelizing lines.
6. Approaches to obstructions which may be passed on either side.
7. Turn markings.
8. Stop lines.
9. Crosswalk lines.
10. Parking space limit lines.
11. Word and symbol markings
Then in 1971:
Yellow lines delineate the separation of traffic flows in opposing directions or mark the left boundary of the travel path at locations of particular hazard.
White lines delineate the separation of traffic flows in the same direction. White continued to be used for the left edge line on divided roads.
Red markings delineate roadways that shall not be entered or used by the viewer of
those markings.
Drago wrote: Ann Althouse: "@mad People are emotional about guns." Uh, no.
Well, yes. Some are, without doubt. And some are positively neurotic on the subject. TTR, for one. Others are emotional about the Constitution, which is where our devotion belongs.
Two notable iconoclasts have the best and most thoughtful take on the subject. Check it out.
The road goes on forever and the comments never end.
Hey, this photo appears to be a bike path, not a road.
Blogger Bunk said...Hey, this photo appears to be a bike path, not a road.
That was my thought too. Otherwise it is a very wide stripe!
It can't be a "path". Paths are not paved with expensive asphalt :-)
"A path is little more than a habit that comes with knowledge of a place. It is a sort of ritual of familiarity. As a form, it is a form of contact with a known landscape." - Wendell Berry
Drago said...
"The Schiff Memo Harms Democrats More Than It Helps Them"
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/schiff-memo-russia-investigation-harms-democrats-more-than-helps-them/
And LLR Chuck curls up in a ball and weeps.
For the (perhaps) 5% of the voting public that is following this shining example of gov't abuse, McCarthy's piece is very illuminating - especially for the lawyers amongst us. But it's not for Jane Q Public that doesn't really understand (or wants to understand) the difference between "investigation" and "surveillance".
GOP needs to polish their 4-5 talking points: Our government went to a secret intelligence court in order to spy on the Trump campaign (using strawman Page as the excuse) based upon salacious and unverified dirt from the Clinton campaign. That's what it all boils down to and Jane Q Public doesn't have any difficulty understanding why THIS was wrong.
I don't think Chuck is curled up in a ball - I'm sure he is reviewing every lefty site out there in order to polish off his talking points (Trump bad, FBI good).
"People are emotional about guns" Not me/I. I wasn't one of the 500. I'd prefer not to care.
If a form of gun control can demonstrably lower the homicide rate, I am willing to consider it. I will need evidence, preferably quasi-experimental evidence.
If gun opponents want to abolish the Second Amendment, I am willing to consider their arguments, provided they go through the proper process. I do get a little emotional about lefties trying to use the Living Constitution to kill its main provisions.
Even as a cynical conservative, I do get a little emotional about progs lying to increase their power over the citizenry.
Since last Thursday, I have written and posted six articles about the Charlottesville incident.
The first in the series is
James Fields' Backward Movement Before He Drove into the Crowd
https://people-who-did-not-see.blogspot.com/2018/02/james-fields-backward-movement-before.html
-----
The titles of the following five articles:
The Pretrial Hearing Did Not Show a Video of James Fields' First Backup
The Red Pump Kitchen's Surveillance Camera
The Anti-Racism Protesters' Decision to Turn North onto Fourth Street
The Idlings and Backups of James Fields' Car
James Fields' Legal Defense in Relation to the Intersection of Fourth and Market
These articles are quite original.
I still think that the anti-racism protesters were diverted north onto Fourth Street in order to enable Fields to drive into them. Some people knew beforehand what would happen.
The Long and Winding Road is a song that lacks a traditional chorus...
Aye -- tradition, matey. Keep to the left in Britain...
I am doing something I have not tried before, on a book I haven't yet read -
"Alatriste", Arturo Perez-Reverte
I have it on parallel Kindles, the original Spanish and the English translation, reading simultaneously. I don't think I have tried this concurrently, comparing the versions. There I hope to find, if it is in me, the tricks of the literary translator.
I have read Rizal's "Noli Me Tangere" in Spanish and English, but that was with a separation of many years. But other than that I have read books in one or the other. Of Vargas-Llosa, say, I have read "War of the End of the World" and not "La guerra del fin del mundo", but I did read "Conversacion en la catedral" rather than "Conversations in the Cathedral".
I have been struggling, for years, with a translation of a history, which I understand perfectly, but I struggle nevertheless. Its not like I havent got plenty of experience translating, I have done piles of Spanish documents - dragooned by my mother into an archive translation project, fascinating but very tedious.
Anyway, if you read a piece of literature in translation, spare a thought for the translator, because that is a literary work in itself.
If you haven't tried "Alatriste", do get it, if you like that sort of thing. Its a historical novel from a different angle. Its Bernard Cornwell and Alexandre Dumas and Mickey Spillane, from a very foreign place. Its one of a long series. The movie with Viggo Mortensen is worth a watch. Its a mashup of all the novels (or most of them), which gives it way too much material and seems rushed; on the other hand it certainly doesn't drag.
Perez-Reverte is currently Spain's best-selling author by far, and he has published two dozen novels, only a few of which have been translated. At the rate he is going, and because most of his stuff is historical fiction, he is, I think, going to be compared to Galdos if he hasn't already. And, Galdos, thats another fellow who has had only a small subset of his works translated.
"I don't think Chuck is curled up in a ball - I'm sure he is reviewing every lefty site out there in order to polish off his talking points (Trump bad, FBI good)."
Yes. I agree.
Chuck will also pretend that he is a lawyer or at least somewhat educated.
He strikes as being a lot like Ritmo, but he's drunk rather than stoned or off his meds.
Inga has been quiet. At least she is honest about who she is.
I don’t worry about the gun grabbers at all. Every time they talk about it, gun sales go up creating even more gun owners. My belief is that nearly 185 million people own guns in America. There must be a billion guns of all types and probably a trillion rounds of all types. Who the hell is gonna be able to confiscate any of that? It’s a complete non-starter. Although it is ironic that lefties think deporting 11 million people is impossible but confiscating a billion weapons is no problem.....
Oh, interestingly, the Spanish "Alatriste" is $4.99 in the original Spanish, but the English translation is $12.99 !
If you read Spanish, get that one.
"Wow! You have over 500 comments on the Trump comment that teachers-should-carry."
yeah Americans are crazy. Summary of discussion:
"you're bad" "no you're bad" "you want to take away my guns" "baby killer!" "tyranny fascist commie!" "baby killer!" "I'm gonna buy a gun & join the NRA today nah nah nah!"
Sure looks like Americans are have rolled up their sleeves and are ready to solve the problem of school massacres. Have fun yelling at each other.
Etienne said... "The Long and Winding Road is a song that lacks a traditional chorus..."
I like the stripped down original version on Beatles Anthology 3.
Sure looks like Americans are have rolled up their sleeves and are ready to solve the problem of school massacres. Have fun yelling at each other.
Israel has done a pretty good job...I say we copy them.
The problem isn't gun control...it's mentally ill control. The vast majority of these shooters are people who would be institutionalized in a rational world.
I see Amazon has a package "Todo Alatriste", $17.99, for the seven novels. If you read Spanish that seems the one to get.
When I point out that America is just about the only country in the world that permits abortions all the way up to the due date and most European countries have limits of under 20 weeks - crickets from the Left.
But when it comes to gun control, suddenly we should take our cues from the rest of the world. (Well, not Switzerland or Israel, but France, which never has mass shoot-oh, wait.)
wwww, I suggest you put your efforts into understanding your countrymen. Nobody is going to get anywhere with snark.
It is in no small part this barrage of contempt that has created your problems.
Will Cate said...I like the stripped down original version on Beatles Anthology 3.
Oh yes. The 1970 version was like a Union record. Where they packed the studio in order to get all the Union members some Christmas cash.
Tonight's Poetry Flash
Four things greater than all things are, --
Women and Horses and Power and War.
We spake of them all, but the last the most,
For I sought a word of a Russian post,
Of a shifty promise, an unsheathed sword
And a gray-coat guard on the Helmund ford.
Then Mahbub Ali lowered his eyes
In the fashion of one who is weaving lies.
Quoth he: "Of the Russians who can say?
When the night is gathering all is gray.
But we look that the gloom of the night shall die
In the morning flush of a blood-red sky.
Friend of my heart, is it meet or wise
To warn a King of his enemies?
We know what Heaven or Hell may bring,
But no man knoweth the mind of the King.
-- Rudyard Kipling, The Ballad of the Red King's Jest
Buwaya:
Note, Amazon Prime, steaming movies:
"Amigo"
Set during the Philippine-American War, 1900. The village Mayor is caught between the occupying US Army and local guerilla forces.
Director: John Sayles
Starring: Chris Cooper, Garret Dillahunt, Rio Locsin
Etienne said... "The Long and Winding Road is a song that lacks a traditional chorus..."
I like the stripped down original version on Beatles Anthology 3.
After hearing the "Let It Be (Naked)" album that Paul militiated for, I came to the conclusion that "Let It Be" would have been a #1 song with or without Spector, but that "The Long & Winding Road" really needed the Spector touch. The man may have turned out to be a murderer, but he knew what he was doing when they handed him those tapes.
(Also, I think it speaks to something that both John & George continued to work with him)
Make those lying, racist, devious, immoral, crooked, citizen-framing, evidence-planting, murderous cops the only ones with guns. Shelter in place and wait for the police to arrive. Hands up! Don't Shoot!
This is CNN.
This photo gives me a sense of dread.
The road does not vanish into a horizon: it is abruptly truncated, and you are left to fall into the unknown, at the foot of those foreboding trees, beneath that eyeless sky.
It is the kind of road that hitchhikers are last seen on.
A rusted white van is coming: you can smell the oil and exhaust before you even see it. Out-of-state plates.
Maybe you briefly -- bizarrely -- remember a rabbit-foot keychain you had as a child, and you wonder why that sliver of memory came to you just now.
The only sound worse than the low sweeping wind is the sound of when it stops, and your heartbeat takes over in its place.
Was that why the guy at that last convenience store was smiling at you? Did he somehow know?
The absence of birds.
Your fingers are cold and still orange from those Cheetos.
The Germans have a word for this.
From Roughcoat's Anthology of Great Quotes:
I am Auda Abu Tayi!
I carry twenty-three great wounds upon my body, all gotten in battle.
Seventy-five men have I killed with my own hands in battle.
I scatter, I burn my enemies' tents; I take away their flocks and herds.
The Turks pay me a golden treasure, yet I am poor! Because...
I AM A RIVER TO MY PEOPLE!
-- Lawrence of Arabia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noyFiYKlFJU
As a (symbolic) case in point -
In the California papers, the town of Arcata (way, way Northern California, the home of Humboldt State College), has decided to remove the statue of William McKinley, that has stood there for over a century.
I've only been to Arcata once, and did wonder at the choice of McKinley, a bit, but it seems that at the time California was wildly exercised at the events of the Spanish American war and the birth of the US empire. San Francisco after all has a dozen or so such memorials, to the victory, to the volunteers, with trophies such as guns from the Manila forts (most certainly those tended by an ancestor, who served his thirty years as an officer in the garrison, uneventfully).
California supplied thousands of volunteers and regulars for the Pacific campaigns, and was the main depot and embarkation point for these wars, and the maintenance of the Empire. This all was Californias war, a new state full of new Americans, full as it was of very recent immigrants, given its first chance to serve in war. Heck, even San Francisco's (Spanish, interestingly) city motto, on the city flag, still flying all over town, dates from then - "Oro en paz, Fiero en guerra" - McKinleys war was that "guerra". So while McKinley is not my favorite American President, I understand why his statue stands in Arcata.
But the modern residents of Arcata, dominated these days, decades after the destruction of the timber industry, by the State college, does not like this history. Its no coincidence that one of the groups behind this business in Arcata is Mecha (Spanish for fuse, Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Atzlan) one of the (more radical) Cal State system feeders into the La Raza political-bureaucratic power complex.
This is just one of those symbolic acts of aggression that feeds the paranoia of the white American public, especially, in this case, in California. This is a slap on the face, it is a clear message - "we hate you, we despise your history and culture, and we will replace you".
The public has no official recourse, and no clear way to fight back. The powers that be are entirely on the side of those like Mecha, and moreover have to wonder what is coming next. Hence guns.
If you want to solve the problem of guns, solve this. All the thousands upon thousands of these aggressions.
"After hearing the "Let It Be (Naked)" album that Paul militiated for, I came to the conclusion that "Let It Be" would have been a #1 song with or without Spector, but that "The Long & Winding Road" really needed the Spector touch."
A big issue is that the recording suffers from a lousy bass part.
For such an open song it needs a bass that would prod and provide counterpoint, provide movement. The Spector mix is too many clouds, not enough gravity.
The bass didn't sound like McCartney to me -- too basic and uninspired, too rote -- so I looked it up. From Wiki:
"(Spector) also said that his hand was forced into remixing "The Long and Winding Road" due to the poor quality of Lennon's bass playing. Others agreed: in his book Revolution in the Head Beatles scholar Ian MacDonald wrote: "The song was designed as a standard to be taken up by mainstream balladeers. … It features some atrocious bass-playing by Lennon, prodding clumsily around as if uncertain of the harmonies and making many comical mistakes. Lennon's crude bass playing on 'The Long and Winding Road,' though largely accidental, amounts to sabotage when presented as finished work."
As far as Spector: his work on Lennon's 'Instant Karma' is phenomenal.
And when he murdered someone he didn't use an AR-15, so that is good.
Especially when his production style is known for over-kill.
The Germans have a word for this.
This is the most interesting thing I read on the Trump/teachers thread today:
Mike at 11:23AM said
I was armed for ten years in every school I taught or subbed at and no one else knew. I knew. I was ready. I never needed it on campus. I knew I’d have to answer for ignoring the law if I ever did need to use it but lived by the motto “better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.”
I thought, lucky Mike, lucky schools. Somebody was ready to fight back.
Thanks, Mike.
Roughcoat,
Sayles is a commie, but "Amigo" is very fair and not a bad movie besides. The American cast is very good, the Filipino one rather spotty and on the whole not well written - the Filipino "feel" was off.
The events are true, in that they are typical of a great deal, well documented, that went on in 1899-1902. Down to the Filipinos, as usual, murdering Chinese, just because.
“Come in and warm up” is a dog-whistle aimed those who live in cold climates in February, white people, and others those who do not.
I thought, lucky Mike, lucky schools. Somebody was ready to fight back.
Thanks, Mike.
If he'd been caught, he would have lost his teaching credential. And probably have gone to prison.
The one time I tried cocaine was under the statue of McKinley in Arcata. It was given to me by the younger brother of Blue Cheer's drummer.
Alas, I was too drunk to notice any appreciable effect.
A quote from perfesser Reynolds:
But since the point of gun control is to humiliate and grind down flyover people and demonstrate that the Ruling Class is ultimately the, well, Ruling Class — not to control crime — the appearance of submission is probably enough. Plus, a seldom enforced and often ignored law is ideal if you want to be able to target troublesome individuals later.
Buwaya, I love the early, at least the earliest published in English, Arturo Perez-Reverte novels. I lost interest two or three into the Alatriste series. My bad, I'm sure.
I was much moved by The Fencing Master - The passing of an era. The Queen of the South was a wonderful rewrite of The Count of Monte Cristo, a favorite, but the TV series disappointed. Now that I think about it, Alatriste has a D'Artagnan feel about him.
I remember little of the plot of The Nautical Chart, but was fascinated by the look at early navigation and the prime meridian. I see that now he has several more stand-alone novels I will take a look at.
Any "imperialist" statue-removing campaign is going to hit San Francisco hardest.
Right in the middle of downtown, Union Square, stands the imposing column celebrating Dewey's victory. The same impulse to build this put that statue of McKinley in Arcata (and named the neighboring town McKinleyville).
I won't go into the battle, as such, as the victory itself was paltry, fought against a vastly inferior force. But the consequences of it, of the decision to fight this battle, and, especially, to exploit it, were profound. It was indeed a world-historical moment. A genuine turning point, where it was up to one or a very few men (McKinley, Roosevelt, as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, and Dewey of course) to set the course of the world. Only visible in hindsight.
But exactly this consequence is hated by the activists and the California politicians, and the California powers that be. They dont want you, or your history.
They are beginning to demolish (piece by piece, but the ultimate end is clear), the Pioneer monument across from City hall. I saw workmen putting up construction barriers there, the other day. The 49ers and settlers and the like, as also the allegorical Greek-styled armed figure of California, are not long for this world. They are removing the "Early Days" group in back, the Spanish priest proselytizing the supine Indian - and the Californio sowing grain.
When Spector first started doing the wall of sound, the original studio was placed over an old oil storage tank buried in the ground. It being empty, the music would bounce back up from the floor.
When they lost that studio, they tried to get the same effect with an electronic reverb, but it just wasn't the same.
I read where The Long and Winding Road took 19 takes. Good Lord, can you imagine John and George going crazy after even three takes.
What they should have done was the music first, and then let Paul do the voice over after they all escaped to France to avoid the taxes, and Yoko could record her screaming tracks.
Buwaya,
It's not snark. I think Americans are crazy in relation to gun violence and abortion.
I have heard my fellow residents say that phrase about guns, and I have defended Americans to them. But as I read the thread today, I realized they are right.
As evidenced in the comment section, the American public cannot address this situation without falling into emotional meltdowns. That emotionality is not practical for moving forward to curb the school massacres.
I hope Americans resident in the country can roll up your sleeves and agree on practical safety solutions for school children.
I hope Americans resident in the country can roll up your sleeves and agree on practical safety solutions for school children.
We are...as long as they don't involve taking our guns. We are citizens not subjects.
I agree about Israel. There are several practical security issues that could be put into place.
"The problem isn't gun control...it's mentally ill control. The vast majority of these shooters are people who would be institutionalized in a rational world."
Authorities need to recognize that the teen years and early 20s are often a time when severe psychotic illness can manifest. Often times Schizophrenia doesn't onset until the late teens, early 20s. For some men, a genetic predisposition gets "switched" on in those years.
I'm not sure about The Long And Winding Road, but my favorite Let It Be was when I heard it in the movie of the same name.
Since it has remained in the vault since some lousy video products which came out in 1982, I'll have to cling to my memory from the theater in 1970.
For Christ's sake, guys, if nothing else, bring out the "Rooftop Concert" on Blu Ray!
Banning any kind of basic firearm is a fool's errand at this point. Even worse, the ability to manufacture firearms of any type is not far off from being a basement operation- and will explode as 3D printing evolves. If you want to stop psychopaths from mass murder, you will either need to identify and lock them up beforehand, deter them from such actions by making successful mass murder less feasible, or you will need to be able to stop them at the point of attack. Those are your realistic options for the US- anything else is nonsense of the highest order.
I have heard both versions of Let It Be and The Long and Winding Road, and I prefer the Specter productions by a wide margin- though, it being the Beatles, both songs would have been big hits anyway.
Also, Andrew McCarthy eviscerates the Schiff Memo largely along the same lines I did last night, but more forcefully.
I have heard both versions of Let It Be and The Long and Winding Road, and I prefer the Specter productions by a wide margin- though, it being the Beatles, both songs would have been big hits anyway.
I didn't mean to imply I preferred the non-Spector LIB, just that it would have hit #1 either way IMHO (which I didn't think of TLAWR though it certainly would have been a hit). In the end I do strongly prefer the Spector versions in both cases. I think McCartney is just too close to the songs to see it that way..
In the end I do strongly prefer the Spector versions in both cases
Ah.....but what would George Martin have done with them? Now that's a damn shame.
I was "disappointed" by Let It Be (the album) and thought it was sad that the Beatles went out with that.
When I later learned that Abbey Road was actually the last record they did (but released before the legally troubled Let It Be album) a heavy load was lifted from me.
wwww,
All your "gun" problems are just downstream effects, symptoms, of your ongoing culture wars, and the current cold civil war.
You can't talk about it because this talk is just maneuvering in the struggle. Nothing at all is an independent "problem". Its all aspects of a single war.
You do have to be here, and to be able to integrate many information sources, and to have been in the information stream for a long time, for perspective, to get a handle on the struggle and how it all fits.
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@Gahrie
Israel has done a pretty good job...I say we copy them.
In that case you would ban the private ownership of assault weapons and impose strict gun control. Israel has just over seven guns per 100 people while the U.S. has just over a hundred. Even wimpy, socialist-leaning Canada has about thirty (almost all rifles). Israel's gun homicide rate is about a sixth of the U.S.'s. Plus Israel has effectively been at war since its inception. Who is the U.S. at war with?
The gist of the logic of many on the mega-thread below is to take an individual truism (quick armed resistance to a mass-murderer can save more lives than hiding unarmed) and extend it to conclude that arming the more than three million teachers in the U.S. (72 % female)would save lives. Some also argue that, because one deputy failed to act at Parkland, the million American police officers can no longer be trusted. Of course if we extend this logic, the U.S. should be the safest country in the world with the world's lowest gun homicide rate if every citizen were armed. The NRA's wet dream, but not a case any statistician could make.
@Peter, actually the number is probably more like 150 guns per 100 citizens, according to people that the media finds it convenient to ignore. The number of ARs out there is estimated to be over 8 million. That strikes me as being low. Most gun stores seem to have 10 to 20 on their walls. And that’s just one form of semiautomatic rifle with detachable magazine. No one knows how many AK-47 and clones are out there. I don’t think the gun grabbers want to know.
The thing that I’m worried about is this: how many other disturbed young men are out there where the FBI and local law enforcement have found it convenient to ignore all the obvious warning signs? In a country with 300 million people the chances that Nikolas Cruz is one of s kind has to be very low. There’s more coming like Parkland.
People are emotional about guns.
Putting guns in schools normalizes guns in the minds of the public. It says they are necessary, they are useful for personal defense, they are carried by responsible citizens, and as they are used to protect children it is quite possibly something people should aspire to do.
The left was not prepared for a president who would actually consider such a move. In the past it had only been suggested by people "on the fringes of society", and was never taken seriously.
They thought they could simply use the issue against Trump to gin up their base. Trump once again surprised them.
He considered many of their items like banning bump stocks and raising the national age to purchase. They did not expect this. They know it won't help, but it will definitely tamp down the issue for the midterms and 2020.
And they had no idea he was "crazy" enough to allow teachers who already lawfully carry to bring their weapons onto campus, just as many teachers and students do on college campuses today.
Entertaining their proposals at the same time he pushed for in-school carry was the one-two punch they didn't expect because they still are running around with cartoon versions of the man in their minds.
I imagine there is a huge discussion between the White House and the NRA about the real benefits to gun owners of guns in schools and what they might be willing to give up to move the Overton Window on gun ownership in the opposite direction for the first time in decades.
That's a real discussion worth having.
arming the more than three million teachers in the U.S.
Strawman. No one is saying every teacher must be armed. That is a bullshit talking point.
They're saying that those who wish to be armed should be allowed to do so, and even a small number would change the odds and possibly save lives.
Straw man argue much there Peter?
The Beatles sucked.
How can you teach guns have no place in society when the nice Mr. Smith and Mrs. Williams carry one on campus each day for your protection?
How can you use the phrase "gun nuts" in every debate when the teacher holding the debate is openly carrying to and from their car?
The idea that no one you know has a gun, and if they do they're probably a criminal or mentally ill, underpins much of the debate on the left. That idea gets obliterated if the tool used to indoctrinate the young is now openly penetrated by the idea that carrying a gun for personal protection saves lives?
You know why the left is going crazy? Because they fear the total banning of firearms going away for generations should that become law.
@Peter, point of information. Every deputy sheriff from Coward County who showed up at that school declined to enter. One was already on the scene, three others arrived. Zero entered. The first law enforcement officers to enter were Coral Gables city police.
If any of the people who compete in IDPA are teachers, a shooter in their school will have a short, painful, but exciting life.
@Kevin, point of information. The left has always been going crazy.
@Big Mike
Hey partner, after 500 frothing, name-calling comments, let's try something radical and have a discussion to see whether we can take babysteps to narrow the huge gulf on this issue. Are you in? If not, there's probably not much left to say except for us both to invoke Godwin's Law and call each other Hitler.
Your concern about future Cruz's is a very reasonable one, as is the argument that schools need some armed capacity to respond. Plus I understand the Second Amendment. But why and how does this lead to an argument for the private ownership of assault rifles? I've actually spent quite a bit of time trying to bone up on this issue over the past years and I've come to the conclusion the statistics don't do the work either side wants them to. Very few homicides are caused by assault rifles, so even if they were banned and school shootings stopped, the effect on general homicide rates would be hardly noticeable. OTOH, they are existentially horrifying, cause irreparable wounds and seem to have as their sole purpose the killing as many humans as possible as quickly as possible. So what is the case for widespread private ownership of them?
Phil Spector should have been placed in a wood chipper for what he did to that album.
"Plus I understand the Second Amendment. But why and how does this lead to an argument for the private ownership of assault rifles?"
Even Phil Spector wasn't this confused.
very nice and interesting topic
https://famouspositivequotes.blogspot.com
Peter queried: "But why and how does this lead to an argument for the private ownership of assault rifles?"
In the event of a break-in in my home, I am the first responder. I want to be equipped with the same equipment law enforcement would have when they arrive 20 minutes later. That is assuming two things - they show up and are not from Coward County and elect to engage.
The linked article below is an expert's opinion on why he chooses an AR 15 for home defense.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/26/the-ar-for-home-defense-one-experts-opinion
"Plus I understand the Second Amendment." Thank you for clearing that up.
Peter wrote: In that case, you would ban the private ownership of assault weapons and impose strict gun control.
What is an assault weapon?
Play nice, Quaestor -- everybody knows that the term "assault weapon" is clearly defined in Article XIV of the abortion penumbra.
Peter linked to "here".
Nope, not interested. If you think I am going to let DeBlasio, Bloomberg, Clinton (pick one), Comey, Feinstein, et al determine my rights, dream on.
Note: The above all have armed personal security.
Record crowds at Florida gun show this weekend. Maybe the draw was the food court.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/never-seen-big-crowd-florida-gun-show-sets-attendance-record-amid-gun-control-push/
Fred Hiatt in the Washington Post today (or recently) has an opinion piece that says in-state tuition at public universities is an immoral (and unnecessary) subsidy for the rich. Can we say the same about public money used to construct bike paths?
@Humperdink
OK, try here. Conservative newspaper.
BTW, I'm not the one who threw out Israel as a model.
Molon labe
https://reason.com/archives/2016/06/21/what-will-gun-controllers-do-when-americ
@Peter.
Read your link. You were doing well until this surfaced: " .... must show they have a security reason to have a firearm .... "
@ The Germans
An absence of birds, bleakness, foreboding, a van.
It could mean Hillary's coming.
It won't be Bernie. Bernie draws birds like a bug hatch.
Jerusalem Post conservative? Maybe so, but it gave us Bret Stephens. The guy who wants to repeal the second amendment.
"People are emotional about guns."
"OTOH, they are existentially horrifying"
AR-15's are the Great White Sharks of the 21st century – implacable, unstoppable machines, designed to kill.
Ah, peaceful, gun-free Britain:
The number of alleged rapes reported to police in London has risen by almost 20 per cent in a disturbing increase police are struggling to explain.
MOPAC’s figures showed startling rises in several crime types over 2017, which saw 80 people stabbed to death amid concerns about acid attacks and violent robberies in the capital.
Homicide increased by a third to 137 murders, all knife crimes were up more than a quarter to more than 14,500 incidents that saw 2,000 victims under the age of 25 injured.
Personal robbery increased by 40 per cent, theft from the person a third and Islamophobic hate crime by 39 per cent to 1,678 recorded incidents."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-london-reports-met-police-rise-crime-sexual-assault-a8225821.html
If you affix an F-16 to the aircraft lug of a .30-30 does it become an assault rifle? Asking for a friend.
Molon labe
That's actually a very good argument and a major chink in the gun control case, which tends to talk as if banning huge numbers of guns is as simple as reducing the speed limit. Even if the manufacture and sale of certain weapons were banned, it would take decades before there was much effect.
BTW, if you are looking for another argument against the "gun grabbers", try this one. If there is indeed a causal connection between the number of guns and the rate of gun homicides, then the U.S. should have far, far more gun deaths (and school shootings) than it does. The U.S. has 4% of the world's population and 42% of its legal guns, but it has nowhere near a corresponding homicide rate. Compared to Europe and the rest of the Anglosphere, you are strikingly high, but not compared to much of the rest of the world. For example, Brazil has strict gun control and about one thirtieth as many legal guns as the States, but it's homicide rate is three times higher.
Your welcome.
Peter asserted: "Even if the manufacture and sale of certain weapons were banned, it would take decades before there was much effect."
So what are you saying here? That I should agree to a gun grab because it will take years to become effective anyway?
'Bret Stephens. The guy who wants to repeal the second amendment."
And apply copious amounts of white-out to the Preamble.
buwaya said...
All your "gun" problems are just downstream effects, symptoms, of your ongoing culture wars, and the current cold civil war.
LOL, unless your definition of the "problem" is the yapping about guns, which isn't much of a problem.
Almost no gun-related crime or murders are politically motivated; they're the result of greed (gang territory, robberies), jealousy, revenge, etc. Gang or personal stuff.
I'm not saying anything about what you (sing.) or you (pl.) should do, it's your country. I'm exploring arguments on an issue that has captivated the world (CNN is a global network) for my edification, enlightenment and fun. Why are you here?
Re "Amigo":
John Sayles is indeed a commie. I stopped watching his movies long ago, mostly because they are boring and polemical. Haven't watched "Amigo" yet and don't know if I will.
Peter asked: "Why are you here?"
To reveal the sheer lunacy of the gun grabbers argument. (See Great Britain above)
What do we do now? Another use for the AR. What are these neanderthals thinking?
"(Pennsylvania Game) Commissioners abruptly reversed their preliminary vote in January to permit the use of semiautomatic rifles for general hunting uses, amending the measure to ban the sporting arms for big game but permit their use for small game and furbearers, such as foxes and coyotes."
"I'm not saying anything about what you (sing.) or you (pl.) should do, it's your country."
You're a swell guy, Pete!
Off the gun topic and back to the road pic centerline.
State of Michigan Scenic Heritage Highway M-119 is known as the Tunnel of Trees. Located in northwest northern Michigan it is the only State of Michigan highway without a centerline. In the absence of shoulders it is tree lined up to the roadway. It attracts motorcyclists, bicyclers and motorists from all over the country who enjoy its unique beauty.
Worth a trip to drive it if accessible from your location.
OTOH, they are existentially horrifying, cause irreparable wounds and seem to have as their sole purpose the killing as many humans as possible as quickly as possible. So what is the case for widespread private ownership of them?
Once more the voice of those who know nothing about the AR 15.
It is modular so a larger calibre barrel can be quickly used to replace the .223 barrel without having to buy a new gun.
The stock is adjustable so the husband and wife or grandchild can use the same rifle.
The "Assault Rifle or Weapon" is a PR designation made by people who know nothing, like Diane Feinstein who coined the term.
Real assault rifles, like the AK 47 are full auto and illegal .
"An Ohio sheriff who offered free firearms training to 50 teachers was forced to cap his offer at 300, after a flood of local school employees signed up in the wake of a Florida high school shooting that left 17 people dead."
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-25/ohio-sheriff-offers-free-gun-training-50-teachers-forced-cap-300-after-huge
@Peter, thank you for the invitation to dialog, but based on what you wrote I think your position is so based on misinformation that I don't see where to begin.
Well, perhaps I can start by pointing out that the term "assault rifle" has a definition, which is a a long gun capable of both semi-automatic and full automatic at the flip of a switch. Such guns are already illegal except with special licenses, as they should be. There's a quibble here, some guns classed as assault rifles fire three round bursts per trigger pull, instead of continuous automatic fire. But it's a quibble -- such guns are just as illegal as those that will keep firing as long as the trigger is depressed until the magazine is empty or the gun overheats and jams. And, again, just to be clear on the concept, such guns are already banned to the general public and have been for over three quarters of a century.
If you want to expand the definition of "assault rifle," then please make it clear that you are doing so.
The second point is that the AR is a platform which can be purchased or fairly easily (meaning no special gunsmithing tools or skills required) rebuilt in different chamberings. I don't think you find it conceivable, but there it is for real. So when a moronic imbecile like Bernie Sanders says that an AR can't be used for hunting, he is referring to the most common chambering, which is 5.56 mm NATO (or the civilian .223). But in other chamberings it is perfectly usable for hunting. The 6.5 Creedmoor appears to be ballisticly similar to the .243 Winchester or .260 Remington, and the .300 Blackout to the famous .30-30 deer-hunting cartridge. I have seen ARs for sale in .308 Winchester, which is capable of taking down a moose. So if you ban the ARs wholesale, then you really are banning some hunting rifles. If you ban the AR in 5.56, all that will happen is a cottage industry converting ARs to 6.5 or .30 caliber. It's not that hard.
And, yes, I know that there are purists who scoff at hunting with anything other than a bolt action rifle -- they and the lever action guys have been going at it for years and will be going at it for more years, with some lever action fans accepting semiautos and others desiring a three-way argument. Kind of pointless to get in the middle of that pissing match; you just get wet from all sides.
Your notion that any form of rifle is "existentially horrifying" suggests to me that you and I will never reach common ground. What is horrifying, much less "existentially" so, about a gun? And what is an "irreparable wound"? If the wound kills a person that would be irreparable, but otherwise people get wounded and recover all the time. The 5.56 round is designed as an anti-personnel round, I will grant that (others won't BTW), but a person can be hit with one and recover -- it happens all the time to Taliban in Afghanistan and ISIS fighters in Syria and Iraq.
But let's get back to the gun itself. Is the problem that it's all black and plastic and looks e-e-e-vil? Trick question: would you be happier being shot at by someone with a rifle that has a wooden stock? Think deeply about this, because I'm pretty certain that the modern, space-age look of the guns is partly to blame for the frothing at the mouth I see coming from lefties. I know that guns are available for sale with wooden stocks (and polymer stocks that emulate conventional wooden stocks) and are chambered in 5.56, which makes them effectively the same as an AR in a gunfight.
FWIW pointing at Israel doesn't do it for me. Based on what I've heard about Israel, if a policeman hears that someone is inside a school killing children, they'll charge that school ready to put their bodies between the shooter and the kids and to return fire. From what we've seen at Columbine and Parkland, not so much here in the US of A.
There are two things that bother me about the "debate." The first I covered in the preceding comment -- fear of ARs based on the looks of the gun and misleading information about its most common chambering is going to block all discussion until the side of the debate that Peter and wwww are on are prepared to deal with it. The second is that I believe strongly that women have a right to defend themselves. I think, Peter, that you and wwww would agree with me that women have a right to defend themselves and their homes with firearms as an abstract position, but then you are horrified that women might use an AR for home defense. Well, why not? A long gun is better for home defense than a handgun -- it hits harder, and the distance between the front sight and rear sight is longer, leading to more accurate aiming. Also ARs are easily tricked out with laser targeting for under $20. The reasons why I support an AR for women for home defense are because (1) it is lightweight, (2) its stock is adjustable for a small person, and (3) it has low recoil. The light weight and adjustable stocks are self-explanatory. The low recoil comes in part because the stock is aligned with the axis of the barrel and in part because it is designed with a buffer tube to absorb recoil.
Let's be clear about this (a phrase that Beloved Obama used to use just before he launched into obfuscation). I'm not saying that every woman should buy an AR, I am merely saying that it is a very good choice, and one that they ought to have. Some women may not choose to use any form of gun in self-defense. Women of Althouse's vintage down to those in their forties were repeatedly taught not to resist when assaulted, and some still can't bring themselves to shoot at an individual who means to hurt them or kill them. OTOH, I understand that many Millennial women don't just point a gun at a man menacing them, they aim for the bastard's crotch. I wonder how many men are running around out there without penis or balls after telling their intended victim "You know you aren't going to pull that trigger." The thought brings a smile to my face.
@Michael K, IIRC you have ER experience? Can you add anything to business about "irreparable wounds"?
Michael K pontificated...
The "Assault Rifle or Weapon" is a PR designation made by people who know nothing, like Diane Feinstein who coined the term.
Nope, unless she coined the term sometime before 1940.
@Fernandistein, you are only partly right. Go read what I commented at 8:06.
The confirmation bias time. That is Scott Adams favorite term. In the case of gun confiscation Propaganda, the words are used to call out the guns as the evil shooters. .
That bias believes a free will agency exists in certain guns to shoot people. Those guns are the mentally ill guns called "the Assault Rifles." They want to Lock Up the assault rifles.
Peter:
Your hypothesis that gun comtrol, rather than armed guards, explains the lack of school shootings in Israel fails on an implied assumption. That assumption being that only lawfull citizens have guns. So if we strictly limit private gun ownership we eliminate or at least drastically reduce school shootings.
Your assumption is invalid in that Israel is surrounded by and routinely infiltrated by hostile actors who use terrorism as a political weapon. These people have guns. They also have bombs. They would like nothing better than to kill dozens of Israeli school children in a very public way.
Tighter controls on private gun ownership has less than zero effect on these people. In fact it makes their job easier.
Yet, strangely, we have not had a successful attack on an Israeli school since 2008.
So what explains this fact. I contend that it is the fact that every school in Israel with more than 100 students is required to have a well armed and well trained security guard on duty at all times. Most smaller schools also do. I contend that this is a far better explanation.
You can't walk into the Municipal Building in my town without passing through a metal detector and being confronted by an armed policeman. Yet all of our schools are unguarded. Apparently we value the lives of our politicians and government workers more than our children.
My two bits on school shootings: it doesn't look like we're going to arrive at consensus on gun control any time soon. Can we, at least, arrive at consensus that troubled youths need to be watched more closely. This latest shooter raised every red flag known to man, and nothing was done. That's a problem and a remediable one. Also what is it about the modalities of America which cause our psycho kids to go on such rampages. Psycho kids exist in every generation, but this seems a fairly recent phenomenon. How can we change the zeitgeist so that the negative energies of the sickos can be channeled into less destructive forms of nihilism. These shooters are being given a kind of negative glamour that makes them attractive role models to other sickos.
@ Big Mike
Many thanks for the time you took to respond, I much appreciate it. It's what good blogging should be about. The ranters have Twitter.
I admit to confusion about the definition of assault rifles and the mechanics of semi-automatics, but it's ignorance, not dishonesty. I'm just a poor innocent Canadian country boy who has never seen one. I'm also persuaded there should be some armed resistance capabilities in schools provided they are in communication with the police. I still have lots of practical issues with arming classroom teachers, especially on a voluntary or selective basis, but maybe we can save them for another day.
One thing that does strike me is what appears to be a running assumption among American gun defenders that good guys will ultimately prevail and that armed resistance will save lives if only the firepower of the bad guys can be matched. I'm not sure that's even an empirical proposition as opposed to a cultural belief, which may be why the U.S. is quite unique on this debate. Do you think that applies to handguns in urban areas? I know of no other country where even conservatives are calling for the repeal of gun control or private ownership of semi-automatic weapons, and I think that may be because that belief is not shared by them. Anyway, thanks again and cheers.
Plus I understand the Second Amendment. But why and how does this lead to an argument for the private ownership of assault rifles?
When the Second Amendment was written and passed the United States had no standing army. The expectation was that the American people would defend their homes, family and nation if attacked while an army was organized.
There was no controversy about private individuals owning military weapons until the 1920's and 1930's when Prohibition led to the rise of organized crime and the violence that came with it.
I know of no other country where even conservatives are calling for the repeal of gun control or private ownership of semi-automatic weapons,
Americans are citizens, not subjects.
Drago @8:55 PM
Thanks for making my point (even as you intended to refute it).
We had a gentle laugh at your expense. Hope you don't mind too much. But if you're really, really mad to hear that, then thanks in advance for double-underscoring my point.
The invented "right" to an abortion must be protected at all costs. The enumerated right to own a weapon is negotiable.
By the way Gahrie was right when he said (at the top) "Remember..Althouse thinks being emotional about something is a good thing........"
I really do feel that I know that if people were not emotionally bonded to their rights they would lose them, and the text would not save them. We saw that in Heller. The absence of a text won't matter if people staunchly believe in the right. And by believe I mean something deeply embedded emotionally. You need to love your rights, or eventually they will be gone. And love some new things and at some point they will become rights.
"Tradition is a living thing," said Justice Harlan, in phase #1 of the birth of the right of privacy. A living thing and a loving thing, I say.
What are you talking about? I am finding it very frustrating that people do not seem ABLE to read my comments. For some reason you think I want to ban handguns or long guns in the home. This is strange, as it is not my position.
@wwww, it would be nice if you would read my comments before replying. I never said you were calling for a ban of handguns or long guns in the home. I quite properly called you out for your opposition to ARs despite their being an excellent choice for women for defense. CWJ (second comment on this thread) noted that many people -- and I was thinking specifically of you when I agreed with CWJ at 8:55 -- simply can't seem to function rationally when thinking about ARs.
On the whole I agree with you in your 10:12 AM comment, though I have been acquainted with native-born Swiss, and I understand that (1) they have mandatory military conscription for all males, and (2) upon fulfilling their military obligation they are issued an assault rifle (a true assault rifle) they are legally obliged to keep at home. One can opt out, but then they have to do civil service which typically obliges them to provide support to police and/or firemen. We aren't going to have universal conscription because (1) we cannot financially afford such a huge army that would result; and (2) Vietnam, with the discovery that if you have a huge army then sooner or later some idiot Democrat president will use it. But we need to take steps, and, as I noted in a comment yesterday, if any of those teachers allowed to carry a gun participate in IDPA then a shooter at their school is in for a rough time. Which will be good.
@Althouse, it would be great to have a time machine so I could go back and tell James Madison to phrase the Second Amendment (his fourth article) slightly differently:
"The natural right of self-defense being unalienable, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
I am assuming that he would misspell inalienable in much the same way his friend Tom Jefferson did.
it would be great to have a time machine so I could go back and tell James Madison to phrase the Second Amendment (his fourth article) slightly differently
It would be even better to convince him not to write/pass the Bill of Rights in the first place.
@Peter, thank you for your response. I could try to explain the differences between all the forms of repeating long arms, but you can buy a book or look it up in Wikipedia. Just be careful of the bullshit out there. The 5.56 round is not uniquely dangerous; considering the AR platform without considering what round it is firing (chambered for) is nuts.
It took a little time to parse your last paragraph. Armed resistance does stop mass shootings, we do know that. Sometimes a bad guy will be hit by a round in a non-lethal spot and the shock ("I'm hit! I'm hit! Oh my Gawd I'm hit!") causes them to stop. But that's nothing anyone can count on. Sometimes (Newtown, CT, the church in Texas) the very threat of confrontation causes the shooter to stop and kill himself (immediately in the case of Newtown, after a short car chase in the case of Texas). Sometimes there's a serious gunfight (Nidal Hasan in Fort Hood, Omar Mateen in Orlando) before the shooter dies or is too wounded to continue. I don't know of any case where the bad guy continued to shoot unarmed civilians while someone was shooting back at him.
But there's something that these days seems to be almost uniquely American; the desire to die on one's feet fighting back, rather than passively wait for the end to come. On the train from Amsterdam to Paris three young Americans didn't wait for guns in their hands to confront Ayoub El-Khazzani. They got lucky because El-Khazzani had crappy ammo in his AK and it jammed, but would we have called them unlucky if they'd waited resignedly in their seats for the guy to clear his jam?
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